 Hello, and welcome to the discussion series of Buddha Nights. I am Munira Hashemi, playwright, actor, and director. In 2005, I co-founded Simo Film Association of Culture and Art in Herod, West of Afghanistan. March 11, 2013, I co-founded a night with Buddha Festival to commemorate the destruction of world cultural heritage, the Buddha statues of Bamyang. The destruction of Buddha statues in 2001, which carried out in the continuation of decades of ethnic cleansing with the aim of destroying the history of Hazara people, was beyond massacre. It was a cultural genocide. 21 years later after destruction, even the remains, the empty niche of Buddha statues are again in danger in Bamyang. This year, we at Theatredoose, with collaboration of Safe Heaven Freedom Talks, arranged a series of discussion to understand the different aspects of destruction of cultural heritage, destroying history, forced forgetting, social discrimination, and genocide against Hazara people. Our guests for this discussion are Anis Rezaei and Satara Muhammadi. Anis Rezaei is an MPL candidate at the University of Oxford. She holds a BA in philosophy, politics, and economics from the University of Essex. Anis has been closely working with Hazara community-based organization in the UK to help facilitate the integration of Hazara into UK society. She is a contributor to Garden Australia and writes on Hazara's Afghanistan and refugee issues. She has related her dissertation on Australia's refugee policy at University of Oxford. She has a BA in international relations and human rights, and is currently undertaking her jury's doctorate at Monash University Law School in Melbourne, Australia. Satara is a legal researcher with the Afghan Human Rights Democracy Organization. The discussion will be moderated by Assad Buda. Assad Buda is a freelance writer, he studies sociology and Islamic theology, and has been working as a researcher and university lecturer in Kabul. He is the former ICON guest writer in Kavsta. Dett Oterbendande Ogath, a chapter of his personal memoir, was published in Warland Writers' Anthology. He has worked with Ritz Theater and Theater Jews on a project called The Tell History, resulted in publishing a book under the title of Hoppet's Territorium. Southern Stars and Homosaker of Foglana Polina Gatan are his last published texts in the Urduk Bild and Gavit Rivester Art Gallery. He is also involved in visual art, focusing on the demonization of political enemies and aesthetic aspect of extremist and religious violence. We take one minute silence for the last shocking attacks on Hazara people in Afghanistan. In this attacks, over 300 innocent people were injured and 250 were killed. 126 of those who were killed were school children. Thank you. Thank you dear Anis and Setara for being with us. Now I leave the platform for Assad and our honest guest to start the discussion. Thank you. Thank you Munira. Thank you. Safe Haven and Freedom Talks and Theater Jews. Thank you very much Setara and Anis. Welcome to this program. We are going to talk today about intersectionality matter, problematizing the mainstream discourse on gender analysis in Afghanistan context. That's because in Afghanistan you have different narratives of women and the very, very well known narrative in Afghanistan is religious narrative of women. So in this narrative the women are the symbol of shame and guilt, the embodied religious belief. And the other narrative is the kinship or the ethnic narrative of women. So in this narrative women reduced as a kind of collective embodied of tribe and ethnicity as enormous or something. In a very short time we had a Soviet Union women narrative in Afghanistan so they talked about women as worker. So then the Mujahidin came and Taliban came after the collapsing of Taliban, the international community came in Afghanistan you had a lot of activities about gender equality and women issues in Afghanistan. But at the same time, we see that this kind of narrative also had a lot of problem. So the main problem maybe in this context was so they didn't focus on the context of women experience in Afghanistan or gender discrimination in Afghanistan. The women issues become a kind of gender, gender industry in Afghanistan. So for those who work with women issues and gender discrimination, finding money and selling the women suffering was more important than working for women or maybe than social equality. So maybe one of the main reason why that's happened is because many of them didn't have enough knowledge about the context of gender discrimination in Afghanistan. So today we have two guests to talk about that. I want to start with Anis Rizai. So my question of Anis is, Anis said please, could you tell us more about the mainstream forces for gender in Afghanistan context, and why is it problematic. Thank you. Thank you everyone for organizing this talk. Thank you special thanks to save heaven freedom talks. I think in order to answer that question, it would be important for us to ask why mainstream discourse is important. The reason as to why mainstream discourse or public discourse regarding an issue is important is because public discourse structures the way we think the way we talk, and the way we reflect on an issue. In the case of Afghanistan, the mainstream discourse on gender has shaped our understanding of women's struggles and challenges in Afghanistan context. And it has in turn shaped our advocacy and activism to transform those social injustices that women in Afghanistan face. And that advocacy in turn has somehow influenced politics and policy initiatives regarding the injustices or social injustices that women in Afghanistan face. Now the problem with the mainstream discourse is that it has limited our understanding of gender injustice or it has limited our understanding of the experience of women in Afghanistan. Why I'm saying this is because the mainstream discourse on gender in Afghanistan has oversimplified the experience of women in Afghanistan in the sense that it has rendered the complexity of women's experience in Afghanistan and important. Afghanistan is an incredibly diverse country. There are many ethnic, religious and cultural groups who coexist within that political space. And given the history of power imbalance and power dynamics between these different groups, one can clearly state that the experience of women in Afghanistan is entirely different. The mainstream women experience social injustice in Afghanistan is different across different groups. The mainstream discourse has not only oversimplified that experience, it has also presented a homogenous and a singularized kind of, it has homogenized and singularized women in Afghanistan. There are also advantages that women in Afghanistan face. It has been constantly talking about the gender related issues that women face at the cost of completely excluding the experience of women in Afghanistan from an ethnic and from a religious kind of point of view. As I said, Afghanistan is an incredibly diverse country and that diversity calls in for a nuanced approach to understand the different ways that women in Afghanistan experience social injustices. And given that the conversation is going to be mainly focused on the experience of Hazora women and Hazora women, for example, women from the Sikh community, their experience in Afghanistan is not premised on their gender identity. They experience this premise on their ethnic, religious, as well as gender identity. The discrimination, the face discrimination simultaneously based on their gender, on ethnicity and on their religion. And the mainstream discourse has failed to incorporate this aspect into the conversation and also into our understanding. So this is called a kind of a multi-level discrimination that requires a different approach, a different tool or a different analytical framework that can help us understand that. And that is why we took it upon ourselves to talk about intersectionality and how intersectionality as a framework can help us understand all these nuances and these complexities. Intersectionality is an analytical framework that was coined by Kimberly Crenshaw in the US and Kimberly is a scholar, a writer and civil rights advocate. And she coined the intersectionality as a concept in order to highlight distinct experience of African Americans and women from minority backgrounds in the United States, whose experience was shaped by the intersection of their ethnic, religious, as well as gender identity. And in the context of our today's conversation, we are going to apply intersectionality on the experience of Hazara women. And for us, in order to be able to do that, I think it would be important to understand who are the Hazaras and how the experience of Hazara women in Afghanistan is distinct and different and how intersectionality can help us understand that better. So you mean, so they reduce multiple factor to one factor in Afghanistan. So the approach was very, maybe one dimensional so we have a multidimensional approach to the gender discrimination Afghanistan, especially in focusing of Hazara women as the negative side of Afghan history as excluded part of Afghan history and situated in forbidden site. So, I want to continue the historical background of discussion with Sitara. Sitara, could you elaborate on the history of Hazara and that's what are some distinct challenge experienced by Hazara women in Afghanistan. Thank you for your question. And thank you for the organizers to bring this platform together for us to be able to have this very important conversation. I would like to begin as we do here in Australia by acknowledging the land from which I journey today, the Wurundjeri peoples of the Kulin nation and pay my respects to their oldest past and present. I would also wish to pay my respects and extend my condolences to the victims and the families of the targeted attacks of the past few days across Afghanistan. In particular the young Hazara students whose lives were taken so tragically during the deadly attacks on their school in the West of Kabul. It is important that I begin by stating that the Hazara people are not a homogenous group that we have sheer Hazaras, Sunni Hazaras, Ismaili Hazaras, as well as atheist Hazaras. Together, the Hazara population make up roughly more than 30% of the total population of Afghanistan. Following victims of discrimination and violence, the Hazaras remain amongst the most persecuted groups and make up one of the largest groups of refugees around the world. The Hazaras are historically the most discriminated ethnic group in Afghanistan and saw little improvement in their situation despite the presence of foreign forces over the last 20 years in the country. The state persecution, discrimination and exclusion against the Hazaras began in the late 19th century. In bringing the region's many different elements under a centralized authority, the Pashtun ruler at the time, Amir Abdul Rahman Khan, identified the Hazaras as a threat to ethnic Pashtun dominance, and therefore incited religious and ethnic hatred to conquer them in a series of exceptionally brutal wars. Abdul Rahman did this by instigating jihad against the Hazaras, who were perceived in his eyes as infraros due to Hazaras links to sheer sect of Islam in a predominantly Sunni Muslim state of Afghanistan. Some 62 to 63% of the Hazara population was eliminated by Abdul Rahman. They were either killed, sold into slavery or forced into exile. To depopulate the Hazarajat region, the Abdul Rahman government issued royal decrees authorizing Pashtun nomads known as kochis to access and take over Hazaras lands and their life stock by force. In particular, Hazara women were used as slaves by dominant groups in the country. Flowing from this, Hazaras are still being attacked and killed. Their homes are burned or taken away by Pashtun kochis today. Kochis still claim annual land rights based on the decreased issues by Abdul Rahman in the late 19th century. Then victorious Abdul Rahman claimed that Afghans saw Hazaras as, quote, enemies of their country and religion, unquote, laying the foundation of the Hazaras ongoing persecution, exclusion and discrimination by dominant groups today. Significantly established a pattern in which successive governments marginalize the Hazaras for much of the 19th and 20th centuries. And during the monarchy from the 1929 onwards, when during the process of personalization, Hazaras we were made to conceal their identities in order to obtain state identification cards. So you mean this kind of historical background influenced the Hazara people. Yes, especially Hazara women. So if we want to, for example, talk about the gender discrimination. We need to cover all women at Afghanistan so we need other frameworks so the mainstream discourses doesn't tell anything. This is, I mean, because of this unique experience of Hazara people as excluded in Afghan history, we need a kind of new perspective or intersectional approach. Absolutely. I may just cover a few points in terms of historical context. So in his books, the Hazaras of Afghanistan say that Skarmasavi said that until the 1970s, the killings of the Hazara people were declared by Sunni Pashtun clerics as an accepted and sanctified means of gaining God's favor and securing oneself in a place of heaven. The suppression, discrimination and persecution against the Hazaras endured in the late 1990s under then the rule of the Taliban. Based on ethnic and religious identity during the 1990s, the Taliban staffed thousands of Hazaras to death by blocking food access to them. The Taliban's massacre of thousands of Hazaras in Mazara Sharif in 1998 remains one of the most notorious atrocities in the 40 year conflict in the country. During the massacre between 8000 to 15,000 Hazaras are estimated to have been killed in just three days. An event that became the trigger for major refugee flows into Western countries. During the massacres, the Taliban presented three options for the Hazara people to become Sunni Muslims to leave Afghanistan or to risk being killed. This massacre has been described genocidal in its ferocity by author Ahmad Rashid. So while violence is widespread across Afghanistan and the suffering of all people is collective, Hazaras have been subjected to a chain of systemic and targeted attacks for persecution, murder and genocide, based on three main factors. Hazara identity as an ethnic group, religious identity as Hazaras are predominantly Shia Muslims in the Sunni majority state. And more recently, Hazaras have been targeted based on hard and success in education in sports in politics and for progressive and democratic values. Hazaras are mentioned to be the beating heart of Afghanistan and the main ethnic group that can challenge and threaten the religious conservative views, extremism nepotism and ethnic favoritism, which has ingrained both the Afghan society and the government throughout the country. Hazara children and youth, particularly young girls are routinely attacked, mostly because Hazaras as a population are the driving force of social change, freedom and the progression of society, as well as the emancipation of girls and women in the country. Hazara people are perceived as ethnically, religiously, physically and linguistically distinct in Afghanistan. The plight of Hazaras is rooted in a history of slavery and oppression that dates back way before the current conflict and violence in the country. Are women in particular continue to remain the most vulnerable, subjugated and subjected to discrimination and persecution based on their ethnic, gender and religious identity. So, it was a very good historical background and why we need to see from other angle or other perspective to the women. So the women who are generation and generation more than one century, they are target killing of the political structure and they are target killing of many different form of maybe government men. So, to understand themselves, maybe we need other frameworks, so I want to ask Anis what about that. So, as you mentioned before, so intersectionality is a kind of framework which provide us to analysis the gender discrimination in Afghanistan and can you explain a little more about that. Yeah, sure. Thank you. As said by John pointed out, Hazara people are experiencing or have been experiencing oppression, injustice, discrimination based on their ethnicity, their religion and the fact that they are far more progressive ethnic group in Afghanistan in comparison to other ethnic groups. But when it comes to Hazara woman, there is another element to this, there is another factor that shape distinct experience for Hazara woman and that is gender. So in the sense that Hazara woman's experience in Afghanistan is shaped by the intersection of their gender. Hazara woman's experience is shaped by the intersection of their ethnic religious as well as their gender identity. So it is the intersection of all these identities that shape a distinct and a unique experience for Hazara woman. So, this is, this is called kind of a multiple subordinate and identities. Hazara woman in the sense are not only subordinated because of their gender identity. Hazara woman are subordinated because of their religious identity because of their ethnic identity, and because of the fact that they, that they lead a liberal progressive lives in comparison to a woman from other groups in Afghanistan. So that these all factors has intersected and shaped a different experience for them. And as I said at the very beginning about the mainstream discourse, I said that mainstream discourse has limited our understanding of gender issues in Afghanistan. It has limited our understanding of woman's experience in Afghanistan. And in order to be able to address that limited understanding, and in order to be able to understand the complexity of woman's experience in Afghanistan, we need a new perspective, we need a new framework. And that is intersectionality. Intersectionality can help us understand the complex ways in which gender, religion and ethnic identities interact and intersect with one another and shape a distinct and unique experience for a woman from the ethnically oppressed groups such as the Hazaras. You mean, for example, Hazara people as a diverse community, so because Hazara people are Shia, Ismaili and Sunni. So if even there is a Sunni Hazara woman, so she is under discrimination, different discrimination because of her identity and physical structure. If they are, so they are not same with the other woman. So if they are, for example, Hazara, Shia people, so they also discriminate by different factors. If they are Ismaili, so they are a minority, so maybe they experience multi-multi in the factor of discrimination. So you mean that the intersectionality perspective help us to understand this kind of factor better. Exactly, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. And also with respect to they, given that as Sitara also highlighted that Hazaras are not a homogenous group, Hazaras are a very internally very diverse group. With respect to the experience of Sunni woman from the Sunni, Hazara woman from the Sunni religion, they experience a distinct kind of injustice within the Hazara community, but whereas when it comes to the experience of Shia Hazaras they experience a distinct kind of injustice within the broader system. So it's kind of, it's very complex. And what I'm trying to state is that intersectionality can help us see that complexity. It can help us understand that complexity and it can help us formulate policies that can transform those in just those specific injustices that target certain groups within the society. And as previously we talked about intersectionality, it's intersectionality is all about a matter of justice. How can we use and how can an intersectional approach help us bring justice to these women from multiple subordinating identities. So this is about justice. Once we understand that women in Afghanistan experience distinct social injustices, distinct inequalities, inequalities that are premised on their ethnicity, on their religion, as well as on their gender. That is when we can add, we can effectively and meaningfully address this issue. And in addition to that, I think it would be important for us to also highlight that when it comes to gender issues, gender analysis, it is incredibly important for us to acknowledge that we cannot understand gender issues as an isolated kind of system of power or power structure. It is part and parcel of the system of power that has shaped a society as a whole. And that intersectionality can help us understand that. And it can help us see how they, the power structure within a society that subordinates certain groups of people can have a disproportionate impact on those on women from from that subordinated group. Because of their gender as well as their ethnic and religious identities. So that is why intersectionality is incredibly important. Yeah, so I think that is a very important perspective, because if we just talk about gender discrimination very abstract and not distinguish the factor and it's would be maybe a lot of problem and so maybe it would be understandable to see what's going in Afghanistan as sitara mentioned before that. So there is a lot of issues, historical issues, and part of the political conflict is about how to be with women. So we experienced as we experienced historically that what happened to Hazara women, so the Lelyos Hamilton book was with daughter and there's many reports about that in Syriza Tawarich and also Kandahar Dairie how Hazara people discriminate or how, for example, Amir Abdul Rahman army burned Hazara women in the evening during the 1892 and 93 in Ruzgan and they when they burned the women so they danced around her burned body so it's maybe because because of that unique experience for example Pashtun women they are really experienced gender discrimination, not ethnic discrimination, religious discrimination. Because of this we need this new approach you mean. Can you talk a little experimentally and then we will ask sitara. So how, for example, how's how you see the different for example in the practice between a Hazara woman and other. For example, there is a lot of women they are supporting Taliban advocating for Taliban in the Western countries. So do you mean is it because they are they have it's because of different experience or maybe what's really. Yeah, thank you for that again this takes us back on how the mainstream discourse is shaped. So as I said, women from the dominant groups are mainly the ones who represent women from Afghanistan, they represent the experience of women from Afghanistan. And they normally because of because of the fact that they are part of the system of power. They are the advanced they kind of benefit from that system of power they are less likely to understand the distinct experience of women who are excluded from that from that power. And that can be Hazara woman. And with the woman who are again this is an issue of ethnicity woman who supported the Taliban, for example, it's because of the fact that there are certain benefits that they can draw from supporting the Taliban. And the fact that they in Afghanistan it is not only the issue of gender that needs focus it is actually the issue of the fact that when it comes to women's rights, the fact that women experience injustices oppression discrimination on a multi dimensional level, particularly women from historically subordinated and subjugated groups such as the hazardous. And the other thing the other factor with the mainstream discourse and I think it's important to highlight is that it is the day portrayal of Afghanistan as a Detroit society. When we talk in every context when we introduce ourselves that we are from Afghanistan. The first thing that people come and when it comes to gender issues of course they come on ask is whether women are allowed to study whether women are allowed to get an education. And given that the mainstream discourse always talks about the triarchy, lack of women's lack of access to education, means domination of over women that kind of that obscures they, they a contribution of Hazara men to the development of Hazara women. The contribution of Hazara men within the society within the community that can facilitate the woman has all the women's access to education access to resources and access to power within that community within that small system that they have. So that's also kind of a homogenous representation portrayal of Afghanistan within the international community and intersectionality can help us understand and address that effectively. Yeah, so that's a good point. As Citaros mentioned, so one of reason for discrimination against the Hazara at the last decades is because they are really interested in democratic values and they are really interested in new perspective to the Afghanistan best of human rights and they are really, there is a very political will in Hazara society for a democratic Afghanistan developed Afghanistan. So, do you think, Citaro, is it also because of uniqueness of Hazara people experience or, for example, has a woman, so they are really interested to go to school. So the head of Human Rights Commission, so she was Hazara, the governor of Bamiyan was Hazara, the governor of Daikundi was Hazara. So do you think there is a relationship between this unique Hazara historical experience and this kind of perspective to the society. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for this question. And as Anis echoed in her own remarks that Hazara women have long been subjugated and subjected to discrimination and violence and persecution, based on, you know, their ethnic identity their religious identity, but also their gender identity as well. However, in the last 20 years of foreign forces intervention in Afghanistan, it enabled the Hazaras particularly women and breathing to be able to pursue opportunities, particularly in education. And as a result we had Hazaras, especially women and girls who who excelled fully in areas of education and, and otherwise, has our youth in particular women, both boys and girls began to thrive fully, leaving no stone unturned by making the most of the once in a life, once in a lifetime opportunity that they had. As you mentioned, as a relatively open minded and liberal society, the number of girls attending schools in Hazara regions exceeded. He also mentioned that Dr. Sima Samar, who was has a who is a hazard became the first Minister of Women's Affairs and later the chairperson of the Afghanistan Human Rights Commission, independent rights commission. And I also mentioned that Dr. have you birthday be was the first female governor of bomb young, who's also has our from 2005 2013. But despite all these achievements and progress made by has ours, particularly has our women and girls, nonetheless has ours have been and continue to be disproportionately targeted and attacked by being singled out. You know for beheadings for killing suicide attacks as well as kidnappings, if I can give a few examples briefly. So, in 2015, for example, a terrorist group stocked passengers on buses in Zabel, who then identified them identified has ours selected them and then separated them. And then summarily executed. Nine has our passengers by slitting their throats, including two has our women, and one has our young girl Tabasim who was nine years old then. Another example was the halo trust. In 2021 last year, which also illustrates the distinct nature of these attacks on has ours. Again has ours were identified were selected, were separated and then cured. Actually, the CEO of halo trust in his statement James Cowan mentioned that the attack was ethnically motivated and that the attackers were seeking has ours their targets. So learn in recent is the has our populated area of that she has witnessed a blood bath of young has ours, including girls as we saw in in school attack on the school attack last year in May. The maternity hospital sporting centers wedding halls and social gatherings. The 12 May attack on the on the maternity hospital in Kabul illustrates clearly illustrates the distinct violence and injustice experience by and perpetrated upon has our women who were targeted and so brutally killed during the most vulnerable and fragile moments of their life when they were giving birth to their newborns has our women in particular have been most affected by these decades long violence and hostility, both with respect to their identity as a has our, but also their, their gender as a women, but are now facing harsh and new realities under the Taliban with their most basic human rights wiped away by the new militant group. Has our women's pain and suffering has has been and continue to be distinct. As we saw in the attacks a few days ago on on the boy school in that she were where mothers were running hopelessly around and able to find the remains of the young sons. They did not have any access to get to the hospitals to be able to find their children nor were they able to to donate any form of blood to those who are wounded. So throughout history has our women, as we mentioned have been used as slaves, but also deprived of basic rights, such as the very important right to education. And as a result, most has our mature women in Afghanistan are illiterate today, because they were deprived of basic basic right to education, based on their gender as a women but also their their identity as a has our the educational women, for instance, was considered futile in 1990, as it was believed that has our women were considered inferior and subordinate to other members of society. Since the return of the Taliban to power in Afghanistan has our women have continuously and disproportionate being targeted by the detained tortured and at times, killed in their bodies laid on the side of the streets. The Taliban have dismantled the constitutional order that provided some basic rights to the has ours. We have established their Islamic Emirate, which institutionalizes a sectarian and ethnic discrimination violence towards the has ours. The has our people have virtually lost all potential post which they had in the government. And as well as that the Taliban have removed all has ours from positions of authority and institution and other places of employment. Lastly has our women have completely been silenced. Another example of Ali is who was the head of the her at the women's prison, who disappeared in October of last year. Family and friends believe that she was detained by the Taliban, because of her position as the head of the prison, but also her identity as has our women. She remains missing to this day there's no information in terms of her whereabouts. And just earlier this year, they know of the lucky a young has our women, who's 25 was so called mistakenly shot in the head by the Taliban. And this just illustrates the very nature and the very real threats that has our women, particularly face have faced throughout history but now again, under this brutal Taliban regime, both based on their identity as a husband, and their gender as a has our women. Thank you. It was very informative. And we can follow experimentally how the has our women are very experienced and very unique gender discrimination. And the last question and maybe very short answer from anis and it's the same. If you're looking to a diversity or experiencing unique gender discrimination, is it just a negative experience or it's can be positive. For example, if you're not experienced this kind of discrimination, how is it possible to see the society from inclusive perspective from justice perspective. For example, that we think that being the member of a minority is just not negative. It's a potential for justice for social equality. Yeah, definitely. I mean, as you said, has all as as a group has all as our former progressive and former liberal and open minded in comparison to other groups in a person and that has that has been to the advantage of has a woman. And that's why you have so many has our women role models within the, the government, as well as within the civil society members of civil society that has that who have been playing significant roles in shaping a different environment for women to for women from all ethnic and religious groups to advocate for their rights. That has been an advantage. But if you that has significantly advantage has orders, but at the same time if you put that within the broader system again the system of power that structures a society. Again, although has all as has our woman have enjoyed a progressive lives, they have lived. They have, they have been leading kind of a liberal lives within Afghanistan, but at the same time within the broader system they have experienced systematic and institutional discrimination and oppression. So that is that that is the distinct disadvantage and I'm not saying that has our woman as a member of of this of has our community has our ethnic group has been constantly disadvantaged. There have been certain advantages for the has our woman and given the number of has all as has our woman who are getting an education has all women who are leading and initiating social movements within Afghanistan advancing social changes in Afghanistan, but at the same time within the broader system, they have been multiply and disadvantaged oppressed and discriminated against. And that's why we need an intersectional approach to understand all these complexities. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. And today we talked about intersectionality in Afghanistan as a new work understand the gender discrimination better from another perspective. And it's talk about why the mainstream schools is is not working in Afghanistan and not help us to to make the gender discrimination understandable sitara. And talked very details about the historical background of has women and about systematic discriminate discrimination against has water. And finally, explain how and what how intersectionality perspective help us to analyze the complexity of gender discrimination in Afghanistan, and why we need to see the generation from this kind of perspective. Do you want to add more something. Anise and sitara. I don't have anything else to add. And I just want to say that I hope this conversation can initiate money conversations on intersectionality. I hope this conversation, despite the certain shortcomings that it, it has. I hope it inspires has our students to undertake an intersectional approach to gender analysis when it comes to Afghanistan and I would like to thank all the organizers for organizing this talk. And thank you to yourself as well. Thank you for this important conversation. I don't have anything else to add just wanted to add this comments in terms of the importance of us to continue conversations around the has our people in general but also with the specific focus on has our women. As we've mentioned in today's talks, the many dimensional lenses that can be applied in order to really analyze the injustice as the discrimination and the violence that has our women have have suffered and continue to suffer to this day. Thank you very much.