 My name is Carol Chen, like I mentioned and I like to talk about meetups and I think it was a nice kind of segue from your talk because you mentioned a little bit about your experiences with meetups and Although I've been focusing more on like from the organizer perspective what you can do and the things you can watch out for To create success successful meetups for your community All right. I'm so used to just using arrow keys that I forgot this. Okay, so Since I have almost like an hour session for once I can Spend some time to bore you with a bit more details about myself I'm I started after graduating actually I started as an intern in Nokia when I was doing my graduate school and So I was in Nokia for eight and a half years I did a whole range of mostly technical roles from I started with QE on the S30 S40 devices who remembers those dump phones, you know, those are like really solid and Dependable devices and we saw millions of those. So, you know testing was really crucial to make sure everything was working, right? so I started with that then moved on to development of the video engine in symbion phones so there was like a big part of my career in Nokia and And moved on to multimedia integration where I Integrated video telephony and multimedia sharing to again symbion S60 phones and Finally last part of my Nokia career. I focused on developer environments, which are actually the SDKs where like third-party Developers all community developers use to develop symbion apps. So Yeah, from testing to integration to everything in between and But I've never really Connected or interacted with outside developers all that much even though I was myself a developer So at the end of that as I had to leave Nokia due to certain changes I decided to you know, I explore different Kind of career paths. I know I wanted to stay in the industry, but do something different so I She started organizing meetups Since I got laid off by Nokia I had a bit of free time and I organized local meetups in Finland where I was based so that kind of Helped me to network which will touch on a little bit more later on some of the reasons why you might want to help organize meetups and You know, so I managed to get to know a lot of people and learn different projects. They are working on and Managed to get an opportunity to work for this company called YOLA Which is a small startup in Finland that develops a Linux based mobile operating system Called selfish OS. Does anybody know or have heard of? Oh, cool. All right. Great. So I actually told the people who Part of the company say that I was a developer but I don't want to do that anymore, but I want to kind of keep in that How to say in that interaction with the developers so could I kind of go into developer advocacy in our community relations have a Bro and it's a start up. You just like kind of Define what you do. I I had the chance to do everything from you know, like localization translating stuff to Helping with the testing and of course I built kind of this role for the company This developer relations community relations role So it was very exciting I was thrown into organizing YOLA's presence at and MWC this huge mobile event in 2013 Like previously in Nokia, I was always envious of my product marketing Colleagues who went to these cool events and you know get to talk to people and show off our phones and software and everything And I'm just behind the computer, you know working on the code and now I'm like the first thing I get to MWC I get to organize plan that the whole presence around it. So it was a huge deal, but you know What you you know, you never know until you try and I tried I had made a lot of mistakes. I learned from it and Grew to love this This type of job even more Okay, that's Going a bit too long about that Soon after about three years with YOLA I It was a startup Some things are very unstable Financial situation wasn't the best. So I had a chance to Join Red Hat and it was actually thanks to a selfish always community member who referred me to a job here They joined Red Hat. So, you know, it's all like coming together This is community involvement So when I joined Red Hat initially I was the community manager for manage IQ is a cloud management platform It's a relatively small community So after a couple of years when they had more need in the Ansible community team to you know help with the growing Community in the Ansible side of things I started to help with that as well Yeah, so that's kind of my job Career history type of thing. I've lived in four countries as in I've had permanent residency in four countries across three continents I've Travelled to about 40 plus countries Across the same three continents. I haven't ventured anywhere more south like South America or Africa or even Australia. So I would love to do that someday In my spare time I play percussion in a amateur orchestra My main instrument is the timpani this huge cattle drums that you have to tune and You're like the I'm the most hate a person in the orchestra because everybody has to help me move these huge drums but As a percussionist you also have to be very versatile because not only Do you just play one instrument you have I play everything depending on the piece anything from the triangle to the snare drum to the xylophone to tubular bells to Symbols whatever all kinds of things that you can hit and make weird sounds out of so I think that I kind of like that that a kind of variety of tasks and different kind of You know not just sticking to one instrument and I think that kind of helps also in this job or career of Being the community or developer relations person. So all right And if you want to connect with me just look for Cybat on Twitter on Freelow RC Telegram most of this common social networks Okay Okay. Well We're gonna talk about meetups and well today's talk is not specifically Specifically about the Ansible community. I'll be using many examples from My experiences this past year with the Ansible community and working with a lot of these meetup groups in the community and hopefully some of these experiences and kind of ideas and Thoughts can apply to generally other meetup groups as well So These are the Kind of a map of not just meetups but also contributors. We get information from github like Of the Ansible contributors and meetups across the world. You can see that In is a lot of stuff is happening in the US There's you know, it's quite dark green a lot of contributors there It's also a lot of different meetups across East and West Coast and also everywhere, but Within Europe and Asia there's some hot spots, but there's also like places like Russia and China there are some contributors, you know, it's not the lightest green There are some you can see that but you know, there's no meetups there, you know, so like Why is that could it be? You know, maybe some of the the contributors are not like located centrally in certain cities or Just they don't have that culture of having meetups. So these are the things I get to explore in my job So Ansible has around 130 sponsored meetups, which what it means is that we pay for the meetup.com subscription and For for all these meetup groups, but most of these meetups are run by community volunteers So there are some by Red Haters, but generally we encourage community volunteers to run them We just support them by paying for the subscription for example and helping them promote the meetups And before I go on I want to thank Greg Sutcliffe For doing all this data made metrics numbers thingy He used to be a community manager for Foreman if some of you might know but he got really interested in and analyzing this data stuff and Which is an important part of community management. So he decided to focus on that and Helps me make sense of all these Things numbers by finding the best way to display them nicely to sort and filter them and and so on Okay, so these are the top five largest meetup groups in terms of numbers for Ansible Great numbers thousand three thousand two thousand whatever It's nice to say. Hey, you know, I I'm part of this largest meetup group in the world I just ansible meetup group in the world or I organize it or something like that However, like it's quite obvious that these are major Metropolitan cities, I think any one of them Has a population larger than Finland where I'm from so It's it's like You know, it's it's while you have a large city. You have a lot of people So generally you will have larger numbers when you say open up a group and you know invite people to join So while we we want to celebrate these groups, you know, it's great that have these large interests But we cannot neglect the smaller ones as well. That can be just as interesting and effective and for example So my first assignment when I joined the ansible team was to focus on the European meetups because I'm based here in Europe So it's easier for me to do that So I did that for a while and then I also take a look at say Sao Paulo in Brazil. It's a large group It's one of the largest top five But they only had five previous meetups and it happens to be every Every other year like they had some in 2015 and then 2017 and then 2019 one in 2019 one last year and I'm curious like what why is that I have I've not had the chance to Get in touch with them to ask about that. But you know numbers on everything numbers are first Step to explore more behind that So, you know, we can say it's it's one of the top five, but is it the most active? Is it is it the most you know interesting to join or things like that and they don't always necessarily correlate So but that was one of the mistakes I did when I first started Helping to organize these meetups in Europe. I first focused on I listed the top 10 in Europe And I you know contacted the organizers and asked them what do they need? How can I help them? be more effective in their meetups, but That is important, of course, but actually a lot of the times some of the smaller ones could be more Actually need more help And to be Just just as meaningful So that's one number just a number of members in the meetup group This is probably a more interesting number the average RSVP that is the number of people who said yes I want to attend this meetup. So in the last 12 months basically most of 2019 these are the top five groups with the most average RSVP numbers So now you see it was previously was Pune was had the largest meetup group But London actually has the largest RSVP numbers And Pune a second and then again Like Montreal and Munich. They are not even in the top 10 in terms of the meetup size but they are in the top five in terms of average RSVP so You know one number does not Tells the whole story and and from there here you can see like London and Pune they are RSVP versus the total membership is about single-digit percentage 7% 3% Paris as well Whereas Montreal and Munich is 15% double digits and Then down the line you have a really small recently Established meetup group. I think they started in August last year already had three meetups and Even though they their average RSVP is only 42, but it's 33% of their total membership So that's like a much more active group because like, you know One out of three who are in the in the group shows up to the meetup every time so so again like just When you look at numbers look at also compare like what is the Context and what's relative to and things like that and So like I said, I was focusing on European meetups we went from Six active meetup groups and I define active as having a meetup in the last six months So when I first started we only had six active groups Maybe if I extended it to 12 months, we'll have more numbers, but I wanted to be more like strict So six six months within six months, we have a meetup you are active group and I Think at the beginning of this year. We're up to 12 active groups again It's not large numbers, but having like 12 solid active groups. It's you know kind of it's kind of a boost to your community and and to to the kind of the spirit of Collaboration so and speaking of If you're interested in helping to revive the and spoke Bernal meetup Please come to talk to me after this because it's it has a large number of members, but it hasn't had a Meetup since it first started in 2016 or 17. So all right, so that was about and small meetup numbers and how Get using the numbers using a kind of data and metrics I tried to analyze and pick up meetups to focus on the help and Along the way I learned a lot of things and again, let's take a look at the five W's why who what went and where and These have very different answers or you know responses depending on the group because every group have different dynamics different Challenges and as Lincoln mentioned earlier, you know some groups here. They are more focused on beginners They help them with tutorials and workshops. Whereas there are some groups that is like more for for more advanced users So different dynamics you have to think about different things. I Will offer some C's like the letter C in response to these W's I like the letter C because it's in my name and it's like the represents community. So collaboration So, yeah, let's take a look at some of the C's answers So why why do we have meetups? Anyone why do you join a meetup group? Why do you organize one? Just shout out and answer Here interesting talks great. All right. What else? I'm sorry, you know, yes, great. Then what you want to know and share what what you already know. Yeah You already summarized what what I've planned to say, so So, no, no, no, it's great. So I have this I can speak less but Yeah, I first I put common passion or common interest, but I think Passion or interest usually implies that you're already Involved in something or you really have some knowledge or at least some basic knowledge to have the interest So I decided to to a better word would be common curiosity not just because it starts with C instead of, you know, the other letters, but because Sometimes it's just about You know, you could see a meetup group in your neighborhood or in your local community and say hey I've never heard about this new technology. I want to learn something about it You don't know enough yet to be to be interested or to be passionate about But you're curious, right? So So sometimes that's the motivation as well and for those who already have some knowledge The passion is also the curiosity to see what else is there what other people are using the technology for what else you can learn from New things that you have not thought about or explored so I think Curiosity is a better word to kind of encompass that desire to learn and also even desire to share networking Expanding social circles that those were all my Comments and somebody also mentioned to to kind of interact with people. I also put something to put on the CV Which is what I did like I mentioned when I got fired by a laid-off by Nokia fire was a bad word and I just got into organizing meetups in my local region and So that could be something that helps you network not just socially, but also professionally And also definitely sharing your knowledge connect with like minded people and Sometimes even to promote Your product your project or your company. I mean I help Community organizers to organize sensible meetup because I want to share the You know the knowledge of Ansible to to the community and Yeah back to curiosity, I think a lot of meetups once they kind of have a Kind of how to say have had several meetups and a lot of people already know each other and they have had Talked about several topics It's always good to come back and remember there might be people who are new to the group who are new to the technology and have refresher courses have Kind of newbie days once in a while once every Three or four meetups so that you can actually Welcome new members into your community. I mean we want to grow the community right not just Sustain the community. So It's always good to remember that you will we will all once Newbs in whatever technology we're using now. So help that You know help help new people to come to join as well So who who not just about who to target the meetups to But also who can help organize the meetups and who to help promote and you know, there's a lot of people involved For example when I want to When we look if we look at the map earlier on with you know the graph about there are some countries with a lot of Contributors, but no meetup groups. Why is that perhaps I could reach out to people I know in that area to start a meetup group or understand the reason they might not have one Is there somebody I know within red hat who? Doesn't even have to work for as voting but has the desire to help create a group Actually a lot of times we have Community members themselves just reach out to us and say hey, we have a bunch of people here. It's just five or ten people We kind of want to get together and talk about Ansible and share ideas and Teach each other stuff. We want to create a meetup group. Can we do that? And that's you know, the Kind of music to my ears because that's that's something that you know I I really appreciate and definitely would help them set up things and give them some tips and everything so Oh, but coming to that point always have some easy way to Reach you on the website something, you know, whether it's IRC or email address Have some prominent way to so that you can be contacted if they want more information And you don't have to know everyone you can reach to your connections and ask them to connect more people It's a networking fact. So I don't know everyone but I have a lot of help from a lot of people from Different organizers from team who just walked in he has been helping with a lot of the North American meetups because I'm not based there and He has been to a lot of them so Yeah And also like when you want to get people to speak at your meetups You know us around who you know, you know, somebody who knows somebody who might be able to talk about this topic and also Pay attention to the people who are attending your meetups I mean, of course the first time you may not know these people well, but as you know as you get more and more Meetups frequently you start to know the the people who are attending Know know what they they might have certain requirements or certain needs and I'll touch that a bit on diversity Inclusivity later on so that's all about the people who are involved in meetups and What? It's mainly about the content. What what do you do in the meetup? What do you talk about? And I think Some meetups tried very hard to fill up their whole session with like three or four talks or You know like some full Sessions or workshops and that's great London is one example. They usually have at least three talks usually four and They have actually like a whole PR submission process for Submitting a talk they use a PR method You to go to kid get up submit your pull request for your talk and if it gets accepted you can get to speak at the next meetup But there are also some meetups that have just one topic or one presenter per meetup and There's no right or wrong way of doing it. Just Know what's the dynamics of your meetup group? Maybe It's a small small city and it doesn't take too much effort to get from East to west for example and so people tend to meet more often and You know, maybe you just one or two hours at a time and that's fine So you just you know have one topic at a time whereas, you know, perhaps in a bigger city Where you know if you if you hold a meetup in West London those from the east will be like Oh, I'm not gonna spend my knowledge at getting there just for you know a couple of hours of meetup You might want to make it a bit more worth their while so have more program plan So things like So so keeping things concise sometimes helps more than trying to fuel fuel up With a bunch of different talks again depending on what you what your meetup group is like Speaking of github repos some use that again to receive requests for talks, but do note that not everybody is comfortable using it So provide an alternative way just by email or by, you know, some communication channel To to accept the talk as well and also again some some meetup groups use github to share the presentations Afterwards and use you post their videos on YouTube channels We don't dictate that you have to do it a certain way But if they want we enable and facilitate them to to do that There's a github.com slash and ansible dash community is an unofficial community managed repo where a lot of meetup groups post their content there and One last thing I think talks Do not necessarily have to be technical in nature It's great. I of course like if you go to an expo meetup or Kubernetes or whatever you expect to hear about the technology I attended one as well meetup in Dresden after I did a general talk about what the ins both communities about And how I like to you know work with them and some of the events coming up and touch a bit about Kubernetes operators using an expo But not nothing like really technical in deep at the end of it one person came up to me and said The developer relations people I know from other companies are more technical in nature. Why aren't you? I mean, I don't think he meant it as in a bad way But I felt a bit like darn, you know, like why why am I not more technical? But I think that should not be the the thinking because a lot of times It's not just about being technical or not But if you have that kind of expectation that everything must be really deep Really technical you're also excluding the beginners the people who are trying to learn the technology so Welcome the interesting deep talk dive talks also welcome some more general kind of high-level talks That all people just sharing the experience using it's not even developing for it just you know the how much trouble they have with it and Actually through some of these you can say oh, maybe this part the user experience is being improved for example Or some this for this part the documentation can be you know fixed to to make things easier for the users so For example, I actually attended a Kubernetes meet-up in Tambure. I mean I know this much about inspo and I know nothing about Kubernetes So they actually invited me to talk and I'm like, what can I talk about? I know nothing about Kubernetes So I actually just shared my experience at cube con the first cube con I attended in I think was Barcelona and So I talked about the kind of community experience I've had there I went to their contributor workshop saying I you know attended some talks and tried to understand some things So I shared a lot of these and also about the kind of people I'm mad and so on and so forth and They actually quite enjoyed my perspective like like from an outside Not really part of you know fully part of the community outside looking in type of view and then somebody Kind of continue my talk with more concrete numbers of you know, how many percent of their community is female who are doing what? How many? Poor request so he he kind of supplemented my talk For ten minutes after that with some more interesting figures. So, you know like Some something sometimes little things can drive discussions of other topics. So don't be afraid to Talk about different things and also don't encourage people if you are the organizer Encourage people to submit different kind of talks not just You know technical deep-dives There was once at a web web dev meetup I We heard the we saw a title of a talk something about coffee making coffee So at first we thought maybe he's talking about Java because you know a cup of Java is cup of coffee But it turned out he got he was really talking about making coffee the coffee that we drink It was actually pretty pretty technical he was talking about all kinds of brewing methods and the equipment to use and It got everybody really interested even though It was not about the web dev web development meetup. I mean the topic at all, but you know sometimes just a little Change of direction or diversion could make things interesting and during the break everybody was talking about coffee and their experiences so Not not saying that you know we have to talk about coffee every time, but once in a while that could be interesting When When do we have meetups? How often should we have it? It's a There's There's no right or wrong answers or there's no good or bad answers There are some meetup groups that have meetups every month Like I said, sometimes a smaller group that might be easier, you know, like it's just a 10 15 people your schedules are easier to kind of scared to To sort out and find find time for you all of you can meet together so But having a regular time does make it easier to schedule and maybe also easier to find venues If you know a venue that says okay, maybe every two months we can on a Wednesday We can have we can you know accommodate you for the meetup Once a month well sounds really great, but You know, it's not better or worse than having say once every three months. If it's a bigger group and you can't afford the luxury of having it so regularly But the thing is it's good to have a plan, you know Whether if you want to keep it once a month once every three months even once every four or six months, whatever Because once you have kind of once people kind of know the cadence. It's also easier for them to plan to attend the meetups or if a speaker for example knows you have the meetup every two months and He or she wants to speak but he knows that oh, I can't make it to the next one But maybe in the following one I can make it. Let's make that happen. So you help to kind of make things more You know, it's easier to manage easier to organize so if possible if Some some some groups try to Collect a bunch of speakers first and then try to find a location in a Place, I mean a date and a location That works for some groups, but I think a lot a few successful groups. I know they just set the date first Okay, we're gonna meet we just had one last week. So we're gonna meet in two months on this date Probably this location. So because once you have a fixed date, it's easier when you start looking for speakers They will know right away. Okay. I can speak on this date or not Then then you know trying to figure it out When you have like three or four speakers So but of course, that's that's just a kind of a way of doing it and different groups may have different Experiences and and Some works for others and not not everyone so but yeah, if you can keep it consistent. That's probably the easy Make things a lot easier Where This is a hard one because a lot of times Because most of these meetups are free, right? We try to make it accessible to everyone and it's probably also hard to try to collect money from people and and You know, you probably need some kind of organization nonprofit or whatever, but so free meetups Still have a cost because a lot of times the venues are not free The refreshments are not free and those are usually tied together So I would say a lot of organizers spend the majority of their time trying to get a location and find sponsors, so If you work for a company that might have a spare room that The groups can use every week at a certain time after work you know offer that because it doesn't cost the company too much extra and There's something people can rely on and you are really helping the community and people will have a good impression of a company as well so it relates back also to the consistency of the schedule because What you have a consistent schedule is easier to approach a company and say Can we have your meeting room every other month or so every other month of the third Wednesday or something like that? Although consistency doesn't always also doesn't always mean The same location every time especially in the largest city like London or Paris you might want to alternate Locations so you can cater to More attendees so the consistency may be like you alternate every other meet-up You have three locations once you know one one for every third meet-up things like that so Try to keep the cost minimal or find sponsors Who can sponsor usually it's easier if this is the same place and to sponsor the refreshments same company The cost also involves time to travel to the location. I just had somebody from Arlington, Texas email the Dallas Meetup organizers about where they are having their meet-ups because I used to live in Dallas for 11 years by the way, so Arlington is like 40 miles from Plano, which is where some some of their meet-ups are being held so You know like the cost of driving the time and the gas and everything could be you know not not not trivial to a lot of people so Perhaps if they have enough interest from people in the West part of Dallas to have either different meet-up group or have sometimes occasionally have meet-ups there so Yeah, so that different a lot of different costs involved to consider and Which also brings me to the RSVP problem I think a lot of you who either attend meet-ups or organize meet-ups will probably know is that Sure, you know, you have a hundred people RSVP Yes to the meet-up But only like 30 40 show up and you prepare food for the hundred people and it's like No, I'm not gonna bring like, you know 50 sandwiches home You know and and you end up having to throw most of them away and it's really a waste There have been so many discussions and suggestions on how to solve this and if you have any good ideas I will all years because You know charging people to come could be one, but are you? Exclude a lot of people who just say oh, it's not free. I'm not gonna come, you know Or you can say oh you pay five five dollars five euros, whatever and when you attend will give it back to you Sure, but that's that's a lot of overhead in terms of like dealing with money How do you first accept the payment and how do you then get the cash and give it back or what you know? So there's actually one group in the Netherlands What they do is they don't have very frequent meet-ups they have it once every three four months And they tend to plan very Long workshops, so they don't have it on the weekdays They'll have it on Saturday and have it from like nine to five or something like a ten to five say So so you know the person giving the workshop spends a lot of effort to prepare that and of course they will order the food and have all the Space you know because when you have workshop you have to have space and Outlets for computers and internet connection and everything and you know 30 people sign up and we have to limit that because again space considerations and then 15 people show up There are people on the wait list who didn't know who couldn't who wanted to attend and they couldn't and then you have these 15 spaces Wasted so they actually came out with this Plan that says if you miss one meet-up you get a yellow card If you miss two you cannot attend the next two meet-ups They have this whole spreadsheet to keep track But it is basically to discourage people from missing meet-ups for no reason or at least signing up and not showing up I Mean you could have a very good reason if you you know like three this before you found out you have something important You can't and the meet-up go change the RSVP. You know, it doesn't take that much, but people usually don't So we want to discourage that and encourage more responsible You know Responsibility for for your presence at the meet-ups so not an easy problem to solve but there are ways probably to Either Guilt people or try to try to make make things harder for them or something so that they'll think twice before skipping a so those are some Kind of I guess I rebel for quite a bit and Just some ideas of you know meet-ups does not necessarily follow a certain pattern. It really depends on your communities. It really depends on what the audience in your local groups want and But we want to you know, sometimes we think okay, these are the Same 20 people that shows up every time we have a meet-up. How do we get more people interested? How do we? You know include more grow more Yeah, like just just be more have have more people join us be more interested and And a part of it is about being inclusive, right? And already at this conference. There are many great talks about diversity inclusion. So I'm not going to be You know discussing too much in detail, but I'm just going to highlight some things that could kind of You should kind of consider as you for for event planning and meet-up organizing. So Um Did disconnect basically you had a tweet it's not showing Okay, I have to fall back on my PDF probably hang on Okay, good to have PDFs. Let's see. Okay. There we go Okay, is it true does that work? All right, okay So Special needs this I saw this tweet yesterday that two days ago at the start of the conference and this Daisy tweeted that You know is there a place or a room that I can breastfeed? Of course, I'm not saying for meet-ups you have to Consistently like have a room set aside for this but say for example, if you know in advance Somebody like as you go get to know your community. Oh, somebody just had a child. But hey, you see He saw her name on the RSVP leaves that They'll be attending the meet-up Reach out to them ask is there? Oh, you know, congratulations of your on your recent new child And is there anything we can help? I see that you're attending meet-up Is there anything we can help to make your meet-up experience more comfortable and easier? so Yeah, you don't have to have a reserve a room every time but be observant and kind of proactive to reaching out Heart of caring and heart of seeing is something that we don't see very much But I actually have heard people talking about and I've seen Tweets of people who are heart of here hearing especially who attended conferences and some of their challenges If you know somebody like that who is attending your meet-up Remind the presenters to add more text for example for those heart of hearing so it's helpful My slides today are not very good for that because it's just one word on every slide But if I knew somebody who was out of hearing I'll probably add more text or at the end of the Presentation or even before the presentation share the speaker notes for example and When you upload the videos at captions or at least speak clearly so that the auto captions can work very well and I'm always at the end. Thanks For heart of seeing again Speak clearly so because they don't have the visual cues to help them understand what's going on and Use less images or if you use images describe them, I would say like, you know, this is a tweet of By Anastasia she offers her self holding a baby and the caption is this so If you are the person who is who has some special needs attending a meet-up Don't hesitate to reach out to the organizers because most of probably most of the time They want to help but they don't know they they can't help you if you They don't know what what your needs are so Some of this can be easily done if people are aware and Ooh now it's I think I have the other slide All right So other considerations Some are really easy like food allergies just in the meet-up Just have a question at the end if you have any food allergies, please contact this person or you know email me or whatever so and also try to have at least some vegetarian options some You know gluten-free and certain most common allergies so so you can Cater to most people but of course on the reverse side that means there's a responsibility for the Responsibility on the attendees to show up so that we won't waste food. So both sides have to cooperate beverages We love to talk about, you know, yes, let's have a meet-up and go for beer and pizza I mean I myself and I'm guilty of that But you know, please consider a lot of people actually don't drink alcohol for many reasons and they don't have to say why but Because but you know, it's hard for sometimes for people to ask Why isn't there any other options besides beer and cider or whatever so provide at least a couple of Non-alcoholic options. It's not that difficult Coffee and tea could always work water one or two juices So and I think most More and more meet-ups and events I attend have a very pretty good at this now. So it's not like the really kind of thing to watch out for but you know, just Have a checklist so that you don't miss stuff like that Language, I'm not talking about swear words. Although there's really no need to swear because it's not in the lexicon of technology terms generally But I'm talking about the the, you know, what is in English or Czech or Polish the presentation language It depends on the audience. Actually some local meet-ups. They have their meet-ups in Their local language. I've been to a Polish meet-up Previously they were they had all their meet-ups in Polish But they made their meet-up in English for because I was there and I was really grateful it's I mean It's nice to be included that way, but also I was More to dare to support them and I'm not necessarily the target audience and it would have been fine if they had the Presentation in Polish and perhaps the slides in English and that's how certain meet-ups do it as well They will have The slides in English and then the presenter can speak in whatever language he's comfortable. He or she is comfortable in So yes similar For those for catering for including those who are hard of hearing Put more information that slides speak clearly so that you know, if there's any auto translate tool in YouTube or whatever You can translate language Pretty well So those These three are Actually, you see right here in DiveColf. You have the communication stickers yellow for only want to speak to friends green and red and so on and Then yards for if you want to your photos taken or not and gender pronouns and That's great, but also Well, if you're the organizer, please communicate the differences clearly last year what happened was I saw black line yards and red Red line yards. There was no labels on them You know what talking about so I was like I'm Chinese red is lucky color for me I'm grabbing a red one and there was zero photos of me in the whole like album of a thousand pictures or something so I'm not saying like hey every take pictures of me But I didn't have the problem with having my pictures taken But because at that point they did forgot to label they didn't have a chance to label those land yards yet I just grabbed one because culturally red is cool for me. You know, it's like attention seeking and Instead is the opposite effect. So Communication is quite important written form whatever just make sure that the person understand what the different light colors or different Symbols mean when you have that For for consideration Finally Okay, I know I'm out of time. I want to make an analogy to rain Leander and Mary Tang wall's presentation yesterday who went to the one about four pillars of support in DevRel relations. Yes, so They mentioned like, you know individuals maintainers project and community So especially between individuals and maintainers, I want to make an analogy that meetup organizers are like the code maintainers They do a lot more and they are usually You know, like they have their own full-time job, but they're also like organizing community meetups So reach out to them or if you are in a position like me who are assisting different Meetups around the world or in different regions Maintain good contact with the organizers. They are the ones who helps who are who who are key to helping you build your community They're just like just like the maintenance of the project So take care of your participants, but take even better care of your organizers And I think yes Thank you and questions comments criticisms tomatoes Kind of Yeah, okay, so the question is about the format of meetups In Spain you said that you tend they tend to be kind of conference more conferencing nature where we kind of I guess formal format where somebody is up here speaking and we just listening Whereas there are certain meetups. There's more casual and people just kind of hang around and chat and I do notice that I actually looked at some of the US meetup groups and Well, sure, they will have one or two Talks at this meetup. The next meetup is like, okay happy hour at Bar X, you know, like so I would say again There's no one standard or one format if you want to have a more social meetup. Perhaps you can either Proposed to your organizer or start one yourself and See the response and and because I'm sure you're not the only one who would want to Experience that kind of meetups. So if you can find some like-minded people to do that organize your own meetup If you if you know the topic of the project for example, if it's as well related you can talk to me if it's Kubernetes related that might be you know context you can reach out to to help to get something set up for the meetup group like the tools use or Or That's probably a whole other talk. I mean we are using meetup.com, but you know, there's many different websites Eventbrite is probably used for something a bit more formal where you want to have registration everything There is people sometimes just hanging out in the RSE or some Chat group that say hey, let's meet every Friday to have a drink and talk about this so again, there's there's no one formula, but If you know who you you might who might be interested to join that reach out to them talk about what's the best way to plan that? Yes Last question Good point surveys I mean is you always want people to give you feedback, but some people may not feel comfortable face-to-face or whatever So have service reach out to them get some ideas what what you can do better Great, I'm not gonna repeat that