 I like your tattoos. What are those numbers on your arm? Oh, that's the date my dad died. He was a fireman. Died in a fire 17 years ago. Oh my God, I'm so sorry. Don't be, it's fine. Knock, knock, who's there? Not your dad. Whatever happened in 2020, we should be very grateful to the powers that be because they have just opened the veils and showed us so much about the world and ourselves, how we were tested. That was a clip from Pete Davidson in a movie, The King of Staten Island followed by a brief clip from today's guest, Miguel Connor. Let me let Miguel finish that thought. We're not here to be good. We're here to be ourselves. I mean, we don't know who we are, yet we're all gonna try to solve the world and we end up, as you're saying, falling into some cult or some political party because we don't know who we are and we gotta find out what is our purpose. What a crazy thought, hey. I mean, what if that's what this is all about? What if that's what the whole pandemic great reset is all about? Is forcing us into a deep dive, a deep spiritual dive. Kind of like the way that Pete does in this movie of putting on the jacket and becoming a firefighter, just like his dad. People email me and they say, well, what are some Gnostic practices? And I said, well, only you know, you gotta find out who you are, what works for you and you've gotta create a life, a system, a gospel and a myth that brings out your inner light. I can't help you, nobody can help you. Nobody can help you, oh my. But in true Miguel Connor fashion, maybe he also means that everyone can help you. We can all help each other. At least that's one of the things I took out of this interview with a true master of deep spirituality and a great podcaster to boot. Hope you stick around for this interview with Miguel Connor and check out his new book. And also thanks, you know, I've put a call out to get people to share the show more and tell other people about the show if you like the show and if you like a particular episode. And people have really responded and I certainly appreciate that. So I will say again, if you like it, give it to people that you know will like it too. Here's my interview with the Miguel Connor. Welcome to Skeptico where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. I'm your host Alex Cares and today we welcome Miguel Connor back to Skeptico. Miguel has a new book, 10 Snackable Meditations, nice little travel companion kind of thing and we're gonna talk about it. And we're also gonna of course talk about Miguel in general and his work. He's the creator and host of just the extraordinary Aeon Byte Gnostic radio which if you've listened to this show, you know has been kind of an ongoing inspiration to me for years and years and years. And it just keeps getting better. Every time I listen to it, there's no downgrade in the quality of those unbelievable openings or the guests that he has on. And one of the kind of interviews that really can only be done by someone who has really mastered their field. And for Miguel, of course that field is modern day Gnosticism kind of popularized Gnosticism but with a research oriented kind of bent to it along with I would say alternative spirituality in general. So Miguel, it's absolutely always terrific to reconnect with you. Thanks so much for joining me. Always glad to be here my friend. It's always a blast and here we are and things are just getting crazier. So what are you gonna do? Yeah, I was gonna hold off on saying that because I wanna talk about the book first but you just brought it up. Miguel, man, I gotta do a little temperature check on you because I've heard a couple of your shows and you sound more, I don't know, lit up, engaged kind of politically although we were just talking about politically. Then I've ever heard y'all like give that guy a magma hat and I know that's not your thing. But it's kind of beyond, is it beyond interesting times for you because you've always been kind of a subtle play it down. Interesting times. Is it gotten past that for you? I would say so. Yeah, definitely. I mean, this happened before 2020. It probably happened late 2018. I was always doing A.M. Byte like kind of part time. And then I do reruns. In fact, I remember you mentioning, you know, my feet has reruns. I said, yeah, I'm just doing two a month and then two reruns because I had this big archive of shows before iTunes and YouTube and the Golden Age of podcasting. So once I went full time, then 2019, I said, well, now this is, you know, as they say, shit got serious. I'm doing this full time. I'm getting more subscribers. So now it's time to really put my ass on the line. So my intro started getting more passionate or more surgical towards not just talking about the ancient nostics and occultism and mysticism but how it can work socially today. And of course, that of course meant taking aim at the rulers of this age or at a crumbling society. And obviously with 2020, with all that happened, it just got put on steroids. I felt people need to hear more and I need to get more out of my system. What's the gospel of Thomas famous saying? If you bring out what is within you, it will save you. If you do not bring out what is within you, it will destroy you. And I think that's in a situation that most people are today. We have to pivot and we have to search and we have to look at other spaces. I think this last year or two has just shown us that everything is everything's in flux and everything's a sham and here we are. It's time to move to those deeper spaces. I get that. But what's most powerful about what you're saying is the voice that's coming through you, A.N. Byte, nosticism, all those things that you set of looking at this broader historical landscape and this spiritual landscape which brings us to your book. So contrast that, pivot that with 10 snackable meditations and what you've tried to do there because in a way it is that balancing that you've always been about. Yeah, I mean, it's, how do I put this? The book, I mean, sometimes when you're searching for your voice or you're bringing it out from within, it's supposed to come from a deeper place. I mean, you hear that from entrepreneurs and others. Something came over me and I just decided to go for it. And maybe it wasn't the success you wanted or everything, but there are doors and pathways that open. What did Joseph Campbell famously say? Follow your bliss and doors will open. I always made the mistake of thinking bliss was some sort of hedonistic thing, like, oh, I'm just gonna have fun. But I think he was really talking about the context of who you are, what your purpose is, how it aligns with your deeper self and what you can do to make a difference. So like with 10, this goes into my introduction. Something told me you need to put some wood in the fire. You need to try to speak to the situations that are happening today and make this ancient Gnosticism more relevant. With 10 snackable meditations, it was kind of the same. I had bought this sort of new e-commerce platform and I was testing it and I was said, I need something to test it. So I'm just gonna, in some of my groups, we kind of share meditation practices and tools for everyday coping, especially these days. And I said, well, I'm gonna just do this as an experiment. So I started writing this book and suddenly it started growing and I created the cover and before I even knew it, I was like, oh crap, I am publishing a book in like a month, in a month process, I was like, I published the book and now it just came out in Kindle, it's in print version, the audio version is coming out from an Audible and Apple probably in the next week. So it's one of those, the spirit took me and I just went for it and I have no idea where it's going, what it's going to do. But it's something that I knew it would be helpful. I want it to be helpful because we do live in more fragmented times where people are under a huge amount of anxiety and stress and the old ways might not be working. I mean, I'm sure you can relate to how people are where it's, oh my God, I had a stressful day. I'm gonna wait till I get home and have a drink or watch TV. I'm gonna wait till I go to church on Sunday or the mosque on Friday or my witch's circle, whatever, or my yoga class, my weekly yoga class. But those ways, those old ways don't work. I think we need a set of spiritual, psychological, wellness toolboxes at our disposition at all times of the day. It's not good enough. You had bad news at work or you're overwhelmed because of the Twitter feed and you're gonna wait. It's like, no, how am I gonna get these meditations and these tools that can work for me in an instant because we are being bombarded by media and misinformation and propaganda and the old ways are falling apart from the workplace to societal circles, to our very culture. So I thought this would be helpful and it's something I learned from Alcoholics Anonymous. They always said, it's not enough to go to meetings, have a toolbox of these spiritual tricks or tricks or what it could hacks if you would, that'll get you. There's an old saying in Alcoholics Anonymous that goes, what does it take for an alcoholic to relapse? A broken shoelace. And it's so true and we all have that. It could be something like your coping and the car doesn't start or some shitty email from a client comes in or your spouse is having a bad day and just rubs you wrong. Of course, the kids break something and suddenly you are off your game and we live in a culture where this, you are off your game is more and more prevalent. I mean, as I'm sure you've heard people like Jordan Peterson and others talking about, these are the best times, less poverty, less war and all that, we've lifted all these people up from poverty in the 19th, 20th century. And I'm saying, yeah, I agree, but suicide, depression, anxiety, domestic violence, it's out of control. And in 2020, which most people or the media overlooks, it's just getting worse. So this is sort of my contribution that has helped me. It's from hallow traditions, various traditions, pick the meditation that works for you and hopefully I will add some more as they go because I think we need these more than ever, Alex. Awesome. And let's highlight two words, snackable and meditation. So one, these might not be what people would expect on medit, when they hear the term meditation, they expect a long arduous sit. Normal. With that firm, with that firm back in that bamboo slap, if you don't do it. And it's the opposite of that. And it's snackable. Here's one, live life as if everything is rigged in your favor. Oh, I love that. Yeah. So that's a meditation from the book, people. I just gave one away. You can still get them. But you have to have the book in your pocket so you can pull it out and remember. But tell us about that. I love that one. It was brilliant. Yeah, that's from Rumi. And of course, the Sufism is a form of Islamic Gnosticism. And some of these are, you might say, how to reorient your brain, your attitude, and all that as quickly as possible so you don't just get swept away by the day's stress and flows and all the things that are going on today. So a sort of attitude change can really make a difference. And sometimes it can really help you or at least create a buffer until you hopefully will find the more serious stuff. Again, you should have a good meditation practice that is more formal, takes half an hour to an hour. But to get there, you can't just I guess you could go into your work's closet or bathroom and meditate for half an hour. I guess you kind of could if you were desperate. But these sort of, again, sanity hacks, as I call them, can really help out. I mean, just that change of attitude can make a big difference. I mean, again, I go back to Alcoholics Anonymous. There's a saying, when things are falling apart, it means they're really coming together. And as silly as a Stuart Smalley as it might sound from Saturday Night Live, it is true because having a vision and seeing the bigger picture and how opportunity can appear when things seem to be closing down in certain ways can be really important, whether it's in the macro of your everyday or your larger picture of your career, we all have the ability to navigate and find opportunity and fulfill our potential. Yeah, that's great. You know, one of the things I appreciated about the book and the meditations were you included this huge body of inspirational work that most people completely overlook. And that's kind of from the entrepreneurial business, self-development kind of arena. And there's some great ones. Here's one from your book. It doesn't matter what kind of day you're having, the fact that you're having another day is enough to be grateful for. Now, that's one, we've all heard different versions of it. I love that one. But tell people where that came from because I think it's cool. Yeah, is that the one from, I think that's the one from Brad Lee, isn't it? Is that the one? Yeah, yeah, I mean, and this is one that goes right to it and he has this spiritual exercise and this guy is a sales guru. He lives in Vegas and all that, but he does have that sensibility of using, like you said, self-help, mysticism to sort of manage stress. And he came up with his hack and he said, imagine you wake up in the morning and somebody offers you, let's say a million dollars. And you're like, okay, that's great. And he says, how would your day go if somebody plopped a million dollars into your account or a big bag of money? And most people will say, I'm gonna have a great day, instant. The possibilities have opened, the potential is open, the mind, you feel freer and lighter. You're gonna go through and you're gonna call people like, we're gonna do this and go on vacation and invest and you're just gonna be happier. And then in his exercise, he says, well, imagine if that person said, all right, you can have a million dollars today, but the catch is you don't get to wake up tomorrow. This is it, you're one day with a million dollars. And then he asked, well, what would you choose? And most people would say, screw that, I don't want a million dollars, I wanna wake up tomorrow. I want the rest of my life to continue. And then he asks in a very rhetorical way, well, in that case, does that mean, what's more valuable? You waking up in the morning or a million dollars? And that kind of makes you think it's like, no, me waking up in the morning is more valuable than a million dollars, than a billion dollars, than a trillion dollars. And he proposes the question, well, why don't you act like you're waking up to the world is the most valuable thing in the world? And that simple meditation in the morning can be a huge adjustment to your attitude, to your energy, and even to what you accomplish that day. So these sort of little tricks and reorientations of the mind, these little programming hacks, can make a difference. Again, they're not totally transformational. The book tries to give, I give links and bigger quotes and talk about these traditions. If you so decide to choose to take them to help you out on your road. And I try to keep it as varied as possible because everybody's different, I assume. Everybody has a different spiritual, psychological makeup. So I have Christian, Muslim, New Age, occult, all these varied traditions so that a person can find what works for them. Hey, you just hit on one of my hot buttons. I'm gonna go skeptical on you. You walked right into it. You walked right into it, Miguel. You couldn't have, if you wouldn't have, if you wouldn't have walked right into it, I would have fooled you right into it. Okay, here's another one. Lord, I offer this sacrifice to you for and then for the person. God had once, here's another one. God had once and on earth without sin, but no one without suffering. So yeah, no, no, uh-uh, I ain't buying it. I mean, no, here's my point. Diversity is overrated. Like I just had this thing the other day and I don't know if I, who I offended on this one, but it's like, no, I don't respect your beliefs. No, make me respect your beliefs. Convince me to respect your beliefs in the court of public opinion. I mean, I'm not gonna go, you know, barricade your house or throw firebombs at you, but no, if you're a Mormon, if you're a Scientologist, if you're a Mooney, I just interviewed, great guy, I love the guy, 30 years of Mooney. No, no, no, no, I don't respect your beliefs. If you're Christian, I was gonna say fundamentalist Christian, but that's just passing it off. No, I don't necessarily respect your beliefs. And as a matter of fact, this quote that you've given in a lot of ways, so it might connect with some people. And that's what I hear you saying, kind of smorgasbord style. So let me turn this into a question. From aeon bite, gnostic, toughness, because there's certain toughness to the gnosis and willing to face the fight, the challenge head on. I don't wanna hear that there's one son on earth without sin, wait a minute, how do you know that? That is different than all the other quotes in a way that I think we need to at least be explicit. If somebody buys into that, fine, but no, I don't know that God had one son on earth without sin. I don't know that. Yeah, I mean, in a way between us and your audience, it is a bit sneaky because Augustine is a former gnostic. He was a gnostic, but he found he couldn't, it didn't give him the structure that he wanted. In other words, it can help him keep his dick in his pants. So he went from gnosticism to Catholicism or Orthodox. And he found the structure there, but even to the day he died, he was accused of mixing in neoplatonic and gnostic ideas into his form of Christianity. And I find a lot of his writings really beautiful and inspirational. I just think he was searching as far as the suffering goes. I mean, it is true. Suffering is definitely for everybody. And by the suffering, I mean, in Buddhism, what do you call it? You call it suffering Buddha said dukkha, which is like a wheel that's always sort of loose when you're pulling the card. It's very, like Morpheus says in the matrix, you know there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is. It's like a splinter in your mind driving you mad. I think that's what the Buddha was. We all know there's something wrong. I think 2021 and 2020 is stressed that and we don't know what to do. We're really uncomfortable in our skin and our minds. So that's what he was referring to as suffering. And obviously everybody suffers because life brings you what life brings you. So I don't know why I got into that tangent about. You did, that wasn't a tangent. I was pulling you into the deep waters and as usual you swim with no problem to the side of the pool no matter where I pull you. But I'll follow up on that. I love the business quote. Like I said, one of the most and Tim Grimes who is a fantastic God, I love Tim and he was on the show recently to talk about his book, the joy of not thinking, which is very non-dual and very in keeping with this conversation we're having. But he turned me on to the fact that Napoleon Hill, of course, one of the most famous foundational business writers of all time authored Think and Grow Rich, which became the kind of seminal book that everyone's built off of. Scam artist, complete scam artist. And they go back and they trace his history and he's a scoundrel from the beginning. All the stuff he's doing, he's trying to do this business scam and leaving, abandoning this child in this state and moving to another. Just the, and like when we move into the spiritual realm we find the, or the people who are trying to co-op spirituality. We find the same thing, you know, the David Koresh is the example I've been using lately. Of course, the Branch Davidian Waco thing. It's a little bit past maybe what some people remember, but I just stumbled across this little factoid that one of the ways that David Koresh really kind of hoodwinked all these good, honest Christians was he had this incredible photographic memory and had virtually memorized the Bible. So he could spew out scripture, just boom, boom, boom off the top of his head. So what he also liked to do is fuck 12 year old and 13 year old girls. So combine those, what's that? So combine those two interests and what he had was he would go to these people that he would lure to his little compound and he does this kind of great commune and stuff like that and he'd say, look, I'll tell you what, I've talked to the man and Jesus has told me I need to have a thousand wives and I need to really kind of start this whole new thing. And you know what? I'm checking out your daughter over there. I think she'd be, I think she'd be right in one of Jesus's flock here right from the beginning. She ought to be one of my wives. And he had many, many of these very young teenage girl wives, you know? And that makes a different spin on Waco. And you know, we all hear, oh my, they crammed. It wasn't such a great place and they probably didn't handle it well. But the point, the point is the sage on the stage, it's like a conversation we had before. And what I think Anne Bight is about and what you are about is spiritual disintermediation. You don't need David Koresh to tell you about your spiritual experience, to reinterpret it. And we don't need Christianity to do that. And we don't need their book that people can memorize and no matter who it is. And we don't need, you know, Osha up in Oregon in his cult. So we don't need any of those guys. It's not, it's not Osha, what is it? It's Osho, Rashi. Osho, Osho, Rashi. So, you know, do we have to be, where do we draw that line, you know? So how do you do that? How do you balance the ten snackable meditations, smorgasbord, find what you like, write your own gospel, create your own myth, which is so beautiful, with, don't be a chump, I mean, be looking out for people who are going to try and co-op your spiritual experience. And I think that's also very much in keeping with what we're talking about with what's going on in the last couple of years. Yeah, I think that's well said, Alex. I always tell people that we are all points of light trying to, on a journey, passing each other by, inspiring each other, and that's the attitude it should be. You shouldn't have any sort of guru or anything like that. At the end of the day, it's your salvation, your unique journey, and you are there to inspire others and then move on in your journey, just as others should inspire you. And the passing ships in the night, I think that's definitely the best attitude to have, create your own narrative to life, don't let others write those, because if we're in a stage where reality is gonna disappoint us, sorry, but every single human being out there is gonna disappoint us, and what can be weaponized will be weaponized or is already weaponized. If the Roman Empire had a complete lockdown on everything, same today with the American Empire and the CIA, I mean, I've gone through that journey, and a writer who I love, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, the famous communist that was banned from coming into the United States on the CIA payroll, Frank Zappa, remember, mister, I'm gonna fight Tipper Gore for free speech, and we were, us Gen X were like, all right, we gotta defend, military intelligence, I mean, Pythagoras was probably a spy for some government. This is the world we live in. What can be weaponized has already been weaponized, so you need to know this and accept this and find your own inner light, because that's just the way it is. What's the saying? If it can be destroyed by the truth, then it deserves to be destroyed by the truth, but that doesn't change the game of your awakening. Your awakening is still the most important thing that you will have, your self-knowledge and who these people and gurus and what they corrupt and destroy really has nothing to do with it, and you can move on, again, with ten-snackable meditations, move on to the next light and get inspired and move away, even the Buddha say, if you see the Buddha on the road, kill him. I always say, same with Jesus, same with your heroes, same with your parents, metaphor, I'm not saying literally, but kill him all, kill him all, it's your road, it's your road, man. Just so inspirationally said, and the parents thing to me is like, the way that I hear you saying that is like, if you, I was just having this conversation with my friend Mark Palmer on his podcast, my family thinks I'm crazy, and we were talking about just how difficult this path is, any path that is a spiritual path that is truly this trying to tap into the inner part. And when you walk into the forest and you have the divine and it comes through the trees and you never thought you'd experience it and you experience love like you've never had before, and then you come home and mom and dad say, oh no, son, oh no, honey, that's not what we believe. We don't believe that. And then you go, oh, we don't believe that. Mom and dad, mom and dad are good people and I know they're good people and grandma and grandpa are good people. They all believe that that's not, that my experience is not good, not real. That's the Buddha that you're talking about that needs to be, we need to step over that Buddha and get to the other side, which maybe brings me to the final quote that I was gonna tee up to people from Ten Snackable Meditations. Another phenomenal meditation. This is not a battle of good versus evil. This is a battle of you versus lack of you. That's what you were saying. I think, so talk about that as we finish talking about this. Yeah, that's from James True. This is his book, Best Apocalypse Ever. How we should, whatever happened in 2020, we should be very grateful to the powers that be because they have just opened the veils and showed us so much about the world and ourselves, how we were tested. So I certainly agree with that point and it is true because we are here, that's what Carl Jung said and it's a book too, we're not here to be good, we're here to be ourselves. I mean, we don't know who we are, yet we're all gonna try to solve the world and we end up, as you're saying, falling into some cult or some political party because we don't know who we are and we gotta find out what is our purpose? Who are we? And there's so many layers of programming and bullshit that we have to go through. When that happens, as I tell people, once you start waking up, what did Anthony DeMelo said? Spirituality is waking up and Clark Emory, the famous Buddhist scholar, said, the awakening of an individual is a cosmic event. Once you find out who you are, then the answers will come in a very silent, automatic way. You'll find, like me doing 10 snackable meditations or A on bite, it just, it comes to you and you go with it and it's beyond your egoic, constructed self. I mean, you're talking about parents and I know I can blame my parents but my programming certainly did a lot of damage to my kids. I remember a Jungian guy saying, the parent's job is to break the souls of our children and I'd be like, oh, that's crazy, but it is true, like school. I always thought school was, there was something wrong with this, like a splinter in them hit my mind driving me crazy. And, but I thought, well, I gotta send my kids to school and I did. But then you start realizing, wait a second, school is just like a prison and there's memes on the internet, right? The bus, the cafeteria, the architecture and you go, holy shit, schools are prisons. It's a place to dehumanize our children and programming and stop their potential. There's nothing like the Waldorf schools or anything like that. And with my first marriage, I send my kids to school but in this marriage is like, they are completely homeschooled and they're obviously mentally, academically, all that. They're far ahead of kids that go to school, at least here in Illinois, I can't judge anywhere else. So yeah, find out who you are. That is the great rebellion. Finding out who you are is what they, whoever they are, don't want you to find out and that's where you find out your purpose, your peace and all that. So that's the journey I certainly advise to people instead of trying to go out and change the world or assimilate to some system or religion or anything like that. As you can see, Alex, I'd be the worst guru in the world. I would never make it. Not good at it because people email me and they say, well, what are some Gnostic practices? And I said, well, only you know. You gotta find out who you are, what works for you and you've gotta create a life, a system, a gospel and a myth that brings out your inner light. I can't help you, nobody can help you. Well, it's funny that you say that you'd be a terrible guru because I've never talked to you about this, but I'm sure you get pulled into being a guru all the time. I can only imagine. So how do you balance that, I guess, would be one question? Well, like anything, I don't take myself too seriously because I know most of what I am is a construct. 99% of who I am has been programmed from my hand gestures to my accent to why do I like the bears? If I was the Chicago Bears, wouldn't I be more authentic if I liked the team from like San Diego or the Packers? You know what I mean? So I try to just realize not to take myself too seriously or reality in itself. So that's really the, and of course there is the inner, there's that inner fire where I want everybody to find their own bliss from Joseph Campbell, to find their own road and that passion to help those who suffer keeps me humble in a lot of ways because there's no time to sit on your laurels or get a big head about things. I mean, we gotta be moving fast here. Great, so Miguel, you've already mentioned in the book it's coming out in Audible. What else do we want to say about this book? 10 Snackable Meditations. I do think people will really enjoy it. You can get a very good sense. You can go look inside and see if it's for you. It's really something that you need to have on your Kindle if you keep your Kindle with your phone or in your pocket because it can be that kind of touchstone bring me back to a good space kind of thing. What else do we want to tell people about it? Well, yeah, and if you get the paper back just put it in your back pocket to use it. I think we've covered a lot of it. It's got, if you want to expand on it, it's got quotes, it's got links to YouTube videos with bigger exercises. It's from traditions from thousands of years ago from Tibetan monks to new age guys to salespeople like we just talked about to Brad Leah. So it's a good, it's a nice good hodgepodge stew of the wisdom of the ages. When it comes down to it, nothing new under the sun. That's what all these masters are saying, just wake up, don't sweat the small temporal stuff because it's all just temporal. And at the end of the day, you're gonna be fine if you don't lose sight of who you really are, which is just an eternal being. You are an eternal being that somehow forgot and now thinks you are in this temporal world or even worse in the skeptical way. Somebody convince you you're a biological robot and now it's just a universe of nihilism and mechanism. That's pretty painful and you don't have to be in pain. Nice. Okay, and I say that Miguel because I want to pivot a little bit. Thanks again to Miguel Connor for joining me today on Skeptico as I was just referencing. You know, there is a second half to this interview. It was just so different than the first half that I felt like I needed to release it as a second episode, which I will do in a few weeks. But for now, I thought we would just focus in on this great, great interview in this book that he did and I would tee up one question from this one. Which one of Miguel's meditations did you like best? Did you most relate to? Let me know. Anyway, you find me. I have a bunch of new ways to kind of find me on the Skeptico website. So go there, more ways to connect, more ways to do things that become part of, I guess, a community of Skeptico listeners. So do check that out if that sounds interesting to you. I got a lot more to come. Until next time, take care and bye for now.