 Live from Austin, Texas, it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Linux Foundation, and the Kube's ecosystem partners. Okay, welcome back everyone. Live here in Austin, Texas, the Kube's exclusive coverage of the CNCF, CloudNativeCon, which is yesterday and today is KubeCon, for Kubernetes conference and a little bit tomorrow as well. Some sessions are next because of Adrian Cockroft, VP of Cloud Architecture Strategy at AWS Amazon Web Services, and my co-host, Stu Miniman. Obviously, Adrian, an industry legend on Twitter and the industry, formerly with Netflix, knows a lot about AWS now. VP of Cloud Architecture, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. This is our first time as an AWS employee on theCUBE. You've been verified. You've been on theCUBE before. Many times. You've been verified. What's going on now with you guys obviously coming off a hugely successful reinventment. A ton of video of me ranting and raving about how you guys are winning and there's no second place in the rear view mirror. Certainly, Amazon's doing great, but CloudNative's got the formula here. This is a cultural shift. What is going on here that's similar to what you guys are doing architecturally? Why are you guys here? Are you evangelizing? Are you recruiting? Are you proposing anything? What's the story? Yeah, it's really all of those things. We've been doing CloudNative for a long time and the key thing with AWS, we always listen to our customers and go wherever they take us. That's a big piece of the way we've always managed to keep on top of everything. And in this case, the whole container industry is on market there. A lot of different pieces. We've been working on that for a long time. We found more and more people interested in CNTF and Kubernetes and really started to engage. Part of my role is to host the open-source team that does outbound engagement with all the different open-source communities. So I've hired a few people. I had Arun Gupta who's very active in CNTF earlier this year and internally we were looking at we need to join CNTF at some point. We've got to do that eventually and then she went let's go make it happen. So last summer, we just did all the internal paperwork and running around talking to people and got everyone on the same page and then in August, we announced, hey, we're joining. We got that done. I'm on the board of CNTF, Arun's my alternate for the board and technical running around and really keep deeply involved in as much of the technology and everything. And then that was largely so that we could kind of get our contributions from engineering on a clear footing. We were starting to contribute to Kubernetes like as an outsider to the whole thing. So I was like, what's going on here? So getting that in place was like the basis for getting the contributions in place. We start hiring, we get the teams in place and then getting our ducks in a row if you like. And then last week at re-invent, we announced EKS, the easy to Kubernetes service. And this week we're, we all had to be here. It's like last week after re-invent, everyone at AWS wants to go and sleep for a week. But no, we're going to go to Austin. We're going to do this. So we have about 20 people here and came in, I did a keynote yesterday. Can talk through the different topics there. But fundamentally we wanted to be here where we've got the engineering teams here. We've got the engineering managers, they're in full on hiring mode because we've got the basic teams in place but there's a lot more we want to do and we're just going out and engaging and really getting to know the customers in detail. So that's really what drives it. Customer interactions, a little bit of hiring and just being present in this community. Adrien, you're very well known in the open source community. Everything that you've done, Netflix, when you were on the VC side, you evangelized a bunch of it if I can use the term. Amazon, many of us from the outside looked in trying to understand. Obviously Amazon used a lot of open source. Amazon has participated in a number of source. I mean, MXNEC got a lot of attention, joined the CNCF or something. I know this community, it's been very positively achieved, everybody's been waiting for it. What can you tell us about how Amazon, how do they think about open source? Is that something that fits into the strategy or is it a tactic? Obviously you're building out your teams, that sends certain signals to the market but can you help clarify for those of us that have been watching what Amazon thinks about when it comes to this space? I think we've been, so we didn't really have a team focused on outbound communication of what we were doing in open source until I started building this team a year ago. I think that was the missing link. We were actually doing a lot more than most people realized. I'd summarize it as saying, we were doing more than most people expected but less than we probably could have been at given the scale of what we are. The scale of the AWS is at. So part of what we're doing is unlocking some internal demand where engineering teams were going we'd like to open source something, we don't know how to engage with the communities, we're trying to build trust with these communities and I've hired a team of several people now who are mostly from the open source community. We're at Oskar interviewing people like crazy. That was our sourcing for this team, right? So we get these people in and then we kind of say, we have somebody that understands how to build these communities, how to respond, how to engage with the open source communities. It's a little different to a standard customer, enterprise, data. Those are different entities that you'd want to relate to. But from a customer point of view and being customer obsessed as AWS is, how do we get AWS to listen to an open source community and work with them and meet all their concerns? So we've been, I think, doing a better job of that now, pretty much got the team in point. You're at your point. Customer focus is the ethos there. The communities are your customers in this case. So you're formalizing that for Amazon, which has been so busy building out and contributing here and there. So it sounds like there was a lot of activity going on within AWS. Just, it was just kind of like contributing, but so much work on building out cloud. Well, there was a lot going on, but if no one was out there telling the story, he didn't know about it. I mean, we've been, so actually one of the best analogies we have for the EC, for EKS is actually our EMR, our Hadoop service, which launched, you know, 2010 or something, 2000 or no, had it forever. But from the first few years when we did EMR, it was actually a fork. We kept just sort of building our own version of it to do things, but about three or four years ago, we started upstreaming everything, and it's a completely clean, upstreamed version of all the Hadoop and all the related projects. But you make one API call and a cluster appears, right? Hey, give me a Hadoop cluster. Boom, and I want Spark and I want all these other things on it. And we're basically taking Kubernetes, it's very similar. We're going to reduce that to a single API call. A cluster appears, and it's a fully upstreamed experience, right? So that's, you know, in terms of engineering relationship to open source, we've already got a pretty good success story that nobody really knew about, and we're following a very similar pattern. Yeah, Adrian, can you help us kind of unpack the Amazon Kubernetes stack a little bit? One of the announcements had a lot of attention, definitely got our head fargate and kind of sits underneath what Kubernetes is doing. My understanding, where are you sitting with the service measures? Kind of bring us through the Amazon stack. What does Amazon do on its own versus, you know, the open source and how those all fit together? Yeah, so everyone knows Amazon is a place where you can get virtual machines. That's easy to give me a virtual machine from 10 years ago. Everyone gets that, right? And then about three years ago, three years ago we announced Lambda. Two or three years ago? I lose track of how many re-invents ago it was. But what Lambda is like, well, here's, just give me a function, right? But as a first-class entity, there's an API, give me a function, here's the code I want you to run. We've now added two new ways that you can deploy to, two things you can deploy to. One of them is Bare Metal, which is another announcement, one of the many, many, many announcements last week that you might have slipped by without you noticing, but Bare Metal is a service. Yeah, people go, those machines are really big. Yes, of course they're really big. You got the whole machine and you can do it. Bring your own virtualization or run whatever you want. But you could launch, you could run, you can add this on that if you want to. I don't really care what you run it on, but so we have Bare Metal and then we have Container. So Fargate is Container as a first-class entity that you deploy to, so here's my Container registry, point you at it and run one of these for me, right? You don't have to think about deploying the underlying machines it's running on. You don't have to think about what version of Linux it is, build an AMI, all of the agents and fussing around. And you can get it in much smaller chunks. So you can say you get CPU and half a gig of RAM and have that as just a small container. So it becomes much more granular for, and you can get a broader range of mixes. A lot of our instances are sort of powers of two of a ratio of CPU to memory. And with Fargate you can ask for a much broader ratio to get more CPU, less memory and go back the other way as well because we can mix it up more easily at the Container level. So it gives you a lot more flexibility and if you buy into this, basically you'll be able to do a lot of cost reduction for the sort of smaller scale things that you're running, maybe test environments. You can shrink them down to just the containers and not have a lot of wasted space where you're trying to, you have too many instances running that you want to put it in. So that's partly the finer grain giving you more ability to save money. More consumption choice. Yeah, and we've also, the other thing that we did recently was move to per second billing. After the first minute it's per second. So the granularity of cloud is now getting to be extremely fine grain and lander is per 100 milliseconds. So it's just a little bit. Four alls and three cents for your bill. I mean, this is the key thing. I mean, you guys have simplified the consumption experience. You've got bare metal, VMs, containers, and functions. Pick one. Pick one. Or pick all of them. It's fine. And when you look at the way Fargate's deployed in ECS, it's a mixture. It's not all one or all the other. You deploy a number of instances with your containers on them plus Fargate to deploy some additional containers that maybe didn't fit those instances. Maybe you've got a fleet of GPU enhanced machines but you want to run a bit of logic around it. Some other containers in the same execution environment but these don't need to be on the GPU. That kind of thing. You want to mix it up. So the other part of the question was, so how does this play into Kubernetes? And the discussions have just started. We had to release the thing first and then we can start talking. Okay, how does this fit? And it sort of, parts of the model fit into Kubernetes parts don't. So we have to expose some more functionality in Fargate for this to make sense. Cause we've got a really minimal initial release right now and we're going to expose it and add some more features. And then we possibly have to look at ways that we mutate Kubernetes a little bit for it to fit. So the initial EKS release won't include Fargate because we're just trying to get it out based on what everyone knows today. We'd rather get that out earlier and then we'll be doing development work in the meantime. So a subsequent release will have done the integration work which will happen in public in discussion with the community and we'll have a debate about, okay, this is the features Fargate needs to properly integrate into Kubernetes and there are other similar services from other cloud providers that want to integrate to the same API. So it's all going to be done as a public development of how we are. So I started tweeting, I want to get your comments on it from your keynote. Someone retweeted, managing over 100,000 pluses on ECS hashtag Fargate integrated into ECS, you know, your hashtag open, 80 episodes open. What is that 100,000 number? Is that the total number? Is that an example on Elastica Containers Service? What does that number mean? So ECS is our very large scale, multi-tenant container operation service that we've had for several years. It's in production, if you compare it to Kubernetes, it's running much larger clusters and it's been running at production grade for longer. So it's a little bit more robust and secure and all those kinds of things. I think it's missing some Kubernetes features and there's a few places where we want to bring in capabilities in Kubernetes and make ECS a better experience for people. Think of Kubernetes as somewhat optimized for the developer experience and ECS more for the operations experience in which we're trying to bring all this together. Yeah, it is operating over 100,000 clusters of containers. Over 100,000 clusters and I think the other number was hundreds of millions of new containers are launched every week or something like that. I think it was for hundreds of millions a week. So it's a very large scale system that is already deployed and we're running some extremely large customers like Expedia and MacBook, MacBook, MacBooks who are, and some of these people are running tens of thousands of containers in production as a single, we have single clusters in the tens of thousands. So it's a different beast and it meets a certain need and we're going to evolve it forwards and Kubernetes is solving a very different purpose. I mean, just if you look at our data science space, if you want exactly the same Hadoop thing, you can get that on-prem, you can run EMR, but we have Athena and Redshift and all these other ways that are more native to the way we think where we can go iterate and build something very specific to AWS. So you blend these two together and it depends on what you're trying to achieve. Well, Adrian, congratulations on a great opportunity. I think the world is excited to have you in your role who clarify and just put us the narrative around what's actually happening in AWS, what's been happening and what you guys going to do forward. I'll give you the last minute to let folks know what your job is, what your objective is, what you're looking for to hire and your philosophy in the open source for AWS. Yeah, I think there's a couple of other projects. We talked, this is really all about containers. The other two key project areas that we've been looking at are deep learning frameworks. It's all of the deep learning frameworks are open source. A lot of Kubernetes people are using it to run GPUs and do that kind of stuff. So Apache MXNet is another focus for my team. It became incubated, went into the incubation phase last January. We're walking it through, helping it on its way. It's something where we're 30, 40% of that project is AWS contributions. We're not dominating it, but we're one of its main sponsors. And we're working with other companies. There's joint work with, it's also open source projects around here. We're working with Microsoft on Glue-On. We're working with Facebook and Microsoft on Onyx, which is an open neural network exchange. There's a whole lot of things going on here and I have somebody on my team who hasn't started yet, I can't tell you who it is, but they're starting pretty soon, who's going to be focusing on that open source, deep learning AI space. And the final area I think is interesting is IoT, serverless, edge, that whole space. One announcement recently is FreeRTOS. So again, we've sort of acquired the founder of this thing, the free roll time operating system. Everything you have probably, you probably personally own hundreds of instances of this without knowing it. It's in everything. Just about every little thing that sits there that runs itself, every light bulb probably in your house that has a processor in it, those are all FreeRTOS. So it's incredibly pervasive and we did an open source announcement last week where we switched its license to be a pure MIT license to be more friendly for the community and announced an Amazon version of it with better Amazon integration, but also some upgrades to the open source version. So again, we're pushing an open source platform strategy in the embedded and IoT space as well. Enabling people to build great software, take the software engineering hassle out for the application developers, while giving the software engineers more engineering opportunities to create some good stuff. Thanks for coming on theCUBE and congratulations on your continued success and looking forward to following up. The Amazon Web Services open source collaboration, contribution, and of course innovation. It's theCUBE doing its part here with its open source content, three days of coverage of Cloud DativeCon and KubeCon. It's our second day. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. We'll be back with more live coverage in Austin, Texas after this short break. Thank you.