 This is Think Tech Hawaii. Community matters here. Aloha and welcome to Finding Our Future on Think Tech Hawaii. I am Parker Wainold, an eighth grader at Mid-Pacific Institute. I am both excited and honored today to have the Chief Justice of Hawaii Supreme Court, Mark Rectonwald, here with me today. CJ Rectonwald was appointed by Governor Linda Lingo in 2010 to lead the Judiciary as Hawaii's fifth Chief Justice. He kindly agreed to allow me to interview him for this show. And I appreciate him making the time in his busy schedule to talk with me today. Chief Justice Rectonwald, thanks for being here. Hey Parker, thank you so much for having me and thank you to Think Tech Hawaii for giving me this opportunity as well. Thanks. And rather than spend time with a long introduction, I hope it's okay with you if I jump right into some questions and let you tell us about yourself and your role as the Chief Justice of Hawaii Supreme Court. All right, so let's start with a bit of a civic sense. You are the head of the judicial branch of government. What does that mean? Well, under our Constitution, there are three branches of government, the legislature, the executive and the judiciary. So the legislature in a nutshell writes the laws. The executive branch is tasked with implementing the laws and we're tasked with the judiciary interprets and upholds the law and including protecting the rights of individuals under the Constitution. Yeah, that's very interesting which kind of leads us into our, well my second question. The state supreme court is not a trial court, it's appeals court. Can you explain how that works? So in our judicial system, we have trial courts and their primary function is to determine the facts in a case. So if there's a jury trial, which typically happens in our circuit court, the jurors will be instructed in the law and then they'll decide how the law applies to the facts and come up with a verdict one way or the other, whether it's a criminal case or civil case. And similarly, sometimes there's a bench trial, that means the judge performs that function as well. So once the trial is over, if the parties feel that there was something about that process that was unfair or incorrect, they have the opportunity to appeal. And they can go first to our state's Intermediate Court of Appeals, which looks at the record in the case and tries to decide whether it thinks there was an error or not and makes a decision. And then ultimately people can then ask my court to review it as well. And just what we're trying to do is decide whether the process that was followed was fair, whether it was consistent with our law and rules, and whether there should be another trial or actually a different outcome in a nutshell. That's the role of an appellate court as opposed to a trial court. Nice. So you mentioned appeals. Does it make you frustrated when people appeal about something you feel strongly about? No. Our job, our job as judges is to put aside our personal beliefs and follow the law. And so we're always focused on what is the law? What is the law in this case? How does it apply to the facts of this case? And we try to put aside our personal beliefs and just focus on what it is that the law requires. That's called the rule of law. We're here to decide by the law, independent of our own views, independent of who it is it might be bringing an appeal and try to decide what the law requires. Oh, that's great. That's great. So what do you feel the Supreme Court is doing well? I have heard from your courts in the community program from my father. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah, I think one thing that we've really emphasized at the court since I've become Chief Justice is being transparent and accessible to the community. And probably the best example of that is that we've taken the court now out into the community and we're holding oral arguments at high schools around the state. And in real cases, not just mock cases, but the actual cases, we'll go out to a particular high school and in advance of us going there, members of the Bar, so attorneys volunteer to go out to the classrooms of the students who are going to be attending the argument, to work with the teachers to actually explain to the students what the case is about, what the role of the lawyers is going to be and what my court is going to be. And if they have time, actually give the students the opportunity to engage in a practice oral argument of that actual case. So when we get to the high school and we convene the program, the students who are attending, they know what the case is about, they understand the issues. It's a great educational experience for them to see the law in action and to see our court in action. We've been able to do this now. We did the first one in 2012. We've gone out now eight times since then. We think, I think we've had more than 3,000 students participated. So when we go to a particular island, for example, on Maui, we'll invite students from across the island to come. Same thing, East Hawaii, West Hawaii, and then particular areas of this island. So it's been a great opportunity for us to engage the community and to let our young people see the rule of law in action. And we're going to be back on the east side of Hawaii Island in November and then in Castle High School in December this year. So we're really excited about that program. Yeah. That's also a good, like, as you said, a good educational thing because I would enjoy that because that may be a good learning opportunity for me. Yeah. And I hope you'll have that opportunity as a student at Midpath. Yeah. How does it differ from doing it in a court opposed to doing it like in a gym or a gymnasium? Yeah. Well, we try to, you know, one thing that's, as I said before, these are actual cases. So, you know, the parties, it's very important for them. Obviously, there's a lot riding on it for the parties who brought the case to the court. So we try to do everything during that hour or oral argument, which is the opportunity for lawyers to present their view of what happened in the trial court to us, argue whether we should affirm what happened or go a different direction. We're very aware that this is really important to them. And so for that one hour, we do everything exactly as if we were in our courtroom here in Honolulu. So the case is called, the court, the room is absolutely quiet. And we conduct the proceedings just like we would in our courtroom. And that's something that, you know, we've all, all the members of the court have been really impressed with the students who have watched, you know, sometimes we have more than 500 students in attendance and they're invariably really well behaved, respectful of the process. They understand how important it is. So we've been able to give an experience to the lawyers and the parties that's really the same experience they have in our own courtroom, except there are so many more folks watching. Yeah, that's awesome. So now you're the chief justice, how many other justices are there? What does it mean to be a chief justice? Do you have the power to overrule other justices? Well, we have, we have a total of five justices on the court, so myself and then, and then four others. So as a member of the court, I don't have the power to overrule anyone. I'm one of five, you know, and each of my colleagues and I have the ability to vote on a particular case and what the outcome of a particular case should be. So in that regard, I'm, you know, my role or my responsibilities are very similar to that of my colleagues. But as chief justice, I have a responsibility for providing leadership in the court in terms of administrative issues. And then I'm also administratively responsible for the entire judiciary. So that is an organization of 1900 employees were on every island across the state or in every county across the state. We have a budget of more than $160 million. So I, in addition to my role as a justice, I also have the role of providing leadership to all of the judges and staff and all of our programs statewide. So that is a very different responsibility. So you kind of all make decisions as a collaborative effort? That's correct. So when a case comes up, typically one of the justices will look at that case first, evaluate what happened in the trial court and in our intermediate court of appeals, make a preliminary recommendation to the court. Most of the time we'll have oral argument, which I described to you before, where the lawyers have the opportunity to come in and present their case verbally for about an hour explaining their position. Sometimes we don't feel the oral argument is necessary. And so just based on the papers that are presented to us, we'll make a decision. But typically one justice takes the lead in reviewing the case, making a recommendation, and then we will confer. And if that justice ends up being in the majority, typically that will be the person who will write the opinion of the court. And if there are justices who disagree or have slightly different views, although they've reached the same outcome, they have the opportunity to write separate opinions. So if they disagree, that would be a dissenting opinion. If they agree but want to add a little something to what the majority has written, that's called a concurring opinion. So does it kind of make you frustrated? Like when you feel strongly on one and then the other judges, I mean the other like disagree with you? Not at all. I think you know for us and I know my colleagues on the court would agree with this. I feel that when you have multiple points of view, that helps to test the validity of each position. We often will go through multiple drafts of an opinion. So typically whoever's writing the majority opinion will present, will circulate a draft of that opinion. And if someone is dissenting, they'll write then a draft dissent. And those will go back and forth and they'll change materially and there'll be multiple drafts. And I think that process, again you're sort of testing each other's position, sort of identifying flaws, hopefully being able to respond to them and make the opinion stronger. So I think it leads to a much better product in the end that we're able to put out something that is thoroughly thought out. All different points of view have really been examined and the resulting opinion is really stronger for having gone through that process. So I have another good question for you. So how do you choose like which cases to hear and decide? So typically when you know and there are some other situations but the typical situation for us is when the Intermediate Court of Appeals makes a decision in a case, the parties have the opportunity to petition to my court to ask my court to review that decision. So we're typically going to look to see if we believe there's been a significant error on the law that's been made by the Intermediate Court of Appeals. If there's a conflict between what that court did and some of our own decisions or some other decisions of that court and ultimately then the question will be whether a majority of my colleagues thinks that we should accept that case for further review. So it's a discretionary decision. There are some other processes where cases can come, bypass the Intermediate Court of Appeals and come directly to us if the parties are requested but the majority of our cases come to us after the Intermediate Court of Appeals has decided the case and then the parties, one of the parties wants further review, typically one of the parties wants further review. That's interesting. So can you tell us a little bit about some of the cases you work with? Well you know we decide literally every kind of case that comes up through our state court system comes to the Hawaii Supreme Court. So we have criminal appeals and criminal cases where someone's been charged with violating a criminal law. We have civil cases so that can be anything ranging from a breach of contract to an eviction to a car crash. We have a lot of cases that come from our family courts and that can be a divorce case. It can be a case in which somebody who's in the juvenile justice system has been adjudicated in that system and there's an issue that's arisen in that context. There are cases involving situations where there are allegations of abuse or neglect involving a child and there's a question of whether that child's parents should continue to have the right to raise that child. So those are very very difficult cases. So literally anything that is in our state court system ultimately can come up to our court. That's very interesting because some of those can be pretty difficult and it's sometimes like it's a hard decision and not something that I would Yeah they're tough. They can be very tough cases and you know you just have to I think the thing that makes it that gives us comfort is you know we look to what the law requires. We look to what you know the constitution or statute or whatever our own decisions have been suggests should be the outcome in the case and I think that you know that gives us some comfort in knowing that what we're doing is trying to apply identify interpret and ultimately uphold the law. And also you kind of don't want to take it like too personally. I think that's right you know I mean obviously we're aware of the things that are happening and how important these cases are to the people involved. We want to be sure that we reach a result that's just you know and fair in a particular instance but we also have to do that within the context of the law. Well we're going to take a commercial break now. So this I've been talking with Chief Justice Rectiwa and when we come back we're going to learn more about his life when he was younger. I'm Parker Widenold and you're watching Think Tech Hawaii. Welcome to Sister Power. I'm your host Sharon Thomas Yarbrough where we motivate, educate, empower and inspire all women. We are live here every other Thursday at 4 p.m. and we welcome you to join us here at Sister Power. Aloha and thank you. Research says reading from birth accelerates the baby's brain development. And you're doing that now? Oh yeah, this is the starting line. Push. This is over. You're dead. Read aloud 15 minutes. Every child. Every parent. Every day. We are back and I am talking with the Chief Justice Rectiwa and you are watching Think Tech Hawaii Community Matters. So now we're going to learn more about his life when he was my age. So I want to switch tasks here and learn more about Mark Rectiwa when he was younger, like my age. What was your favorite subjects in school and which subjects did you prefer or dislike? I've always liked writing so I think I guess I'd have to say English was something I was always passionate about because even then and through to the time now writing has been something I've always really enjoyed doing. You know I remember being okay at math but not having it be as much of a passion for me as just you know using words and being able to communicate effectively to folks. I just try to make my teachers like me so that I don't get yelled at. That's a very good strategy. So on to the next one. Were you like a good student? What were your favorite subjects and what kind of sports did you play? Yeah you know I think I was particularly when up through middle school and into high school I worked really hard on my studies and you know my parents were very very supportive of me. I was an only child so you know I think they did kind of keep an eye on me and make sure that I was doing my work and you know so it became something that was just part of who I was to try to do the best I could in school and try to do a good job on my homework. So like I said I think English was something that I liked a lot that was something my mother was a high school English teacher so you know she was always there to support me and that. I was also a swimmer so I was a competitive swimmer pretty much from when I was eight years old through the time I was in high school so that really was something that took up a lot of the time when I wasn't in school I was in the pool basically. Yeah that's also the same for me because when I have like outside sports it's hard to have time in the middle where you can like do your work so sometimes I will stay up like really late to get them done so that like I don't have any bad grades. Yeah I mean I remember coming back from you know practice at dinner time getting dinner and then having to go study until bedtime and you know that's just that's kind of what goes along with the territory of of trying to be an athlete and a student as well. So what swim events did you do? Well you know I kind of I ended up doing doing a little bit of all of them so I kind of I started out as a backstroker and ended up being like a freestyler and breaststroker just because you know as time went by I'd done it for so long I guess I I sort of tried different different things along the way and tried to get better at better at different strokes so it's something but I don't think I ever got really good at any one of them but I got like okay at a lot. Same so were you more of a 200 meter or a 50 meter? Yeah you know when I started I think I never was super fast in a short short race so it's probably more like a two like kind of more of a 200 meter swimmer and but you know again it's it's a when you do distance events as you know you really have to you have to swim you have to put in a lot of yards and um so you know that's something that I'm really grateful I did it you know because I think it gave me a real sort of it's just made that part of my life so even now I still try to run and swim and you know the discipline again of having to just go and work out even if you're tired and don't want to particularly want to do it that's an important thing to learn because it's not always going to be easy when you take on other things in your life and sometimes you just have to be able to put your head down and do what needs to be done. Yeah so um I have some more questions about your childhood so what were your hobbies or interests outside of school? You know I remember I remember liking hiking and camping so you know growing up I remember with my friends would go you know ride bikes go go camp at like a local state park so it's you know really kind of and you know just kind of like hanging out in our neighborhood you know maybe playing ball hanging out in the street and so those are all things I look back on and you know feel really fondly about. Yeah so um for kids my age would you recommend me if I was interested in law yeah would you recommend me to like be a Chief Justice? Well absolutely I mean you know and I guess the first step of course is becoming a lawyer so you have to be a lawyer to to do what I do and you know when I think about the law you know the thing that's really there's a couple of things I think make it a great area to go into. One is you know really does prepare you to think rigorously about problems and analytically look at all sides of an issue and be really thorough in doing that. It gives you the ability to do a lot of different things in your life whether it's you know being a litigator or helping people in a business helping shape public policy and the biggest thing it does is I think it really gives you the ability to give back to your community. So you know as a lawyer you can you know as you can be a public citizen so somebody who helps shape the dialogue in your community helps shape the arguments about what's important and what needs to be done to make the community better and so you can find a lot of ways to give back. In my case I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to become a judge and ultimately to become Chief Justice it's you know it's an incredible opportunity to try to do things that are positive for our community so you know I'm very grateful that I pursued the course of going into the law and I'd recommend it without reservation for young people. So in high school what how is it different from middle school when you were like in high school like what high school did you go to? Well I started out in high school in my in my hometown so the first two years I went to high school in Lake Forest High School in the suburbs of Chicago and so pretty much doing you know what I'd been doing all along that that part of my life and then in my junior year I took a very different turn and decided to go to a boarding school so it was you know different state away from home in Massachusetts and that was a really good experience for me because I got to meet folks from different parts of the country people who had really different perspectives and teachers who kind of came at things a little differently from the way I maybe I'd seen them in my in my old school so for me that was a great experience it kind of served as a bridge to go into college and caused me to you know just start thinking about the world and seeing a bigger world and beginning to think about how I might fit into it. Yeah that's great and like it's also good to meet new people so you can expand your friendship and learn new things. Absolutely. So moving on to more school stuff, were you popular in school? What kind of friends did you hang around? You know I think I was pretty you know I was like I said I worked pretty hard and I was really kind of you know did swimming outside so you know I think I was probably thought of as being you know kind of a studious kid but it was interesting because I also had friends who were athletes you know and so I had a little bit you know I kind of knew folks from both of those worlds and you know I look back on it and you know I feel like I had you know I think I had a good experience you know it's never easy being a kid sometimes and there's always challenges but I felt like the one thing I really look back on and I'm very grateful for is my parents were just amazing to me and they gave everything they had to try to support me and give me opportunities in my life and so that's something I'm very very grateful for. That's awesome. It seems like over time decisions get made in the courts and someday they there should not be many left to decide is that like a dying profession? I don't think so at all and you know a couple reasons you know one is conditions change and things change and so you know as technology advances as police practices advance as what's going on in our community changes the the guarantees of the Constitution have to be applied to those new situations statutes that were laws that were written you know 10 15 20 years ago have to be applied to what arises so there's always something new always something different to consider. I think the one big thing though that I think we do as a profession have to focus on is being sure that we're accessible to people and that the process of being able to get into court in a civil court is something that people can afford that's reasonable and they're able to understand it they can hopefully get a lawyer but if they're not able to get a lawyer that the system will be friendly enough to them and understandable enough that they can be able to navigate it themselves and that's been one of the major things we've done at the judiciary in the last six years is we have something called an access to justice commission and it focuses completely on trying to find ways to help folks be able to navigate the legal system in the civil case in a civil case and whether that's getting more funding for legal aid who represents folks who can't afford a lawyer or trying to help people through what we call self-help centers where lawyers go and volunteer their time in our courthouses those are the things that we're trying to do to make the system more accessible so we remain relevant and open to our community. So when you were a kid did you have anything you wanted to do differently like any regrets? No you know I like I said I was blessed to have parents who are just so wonderful to me and I look back on it you know and it's not a regret you know if there's one thing I could do now I wish I could go back and tell my parents how much I appreciate what they did for me and how much I love them and thank them for that but so if I share anything with with folks of your generation I'd say you know what just look around and realize that you know you have people in your life who love you and care for you just you know sometimes tell them thank you and tell them you appreciate what they're doing for you because that's what makes all the difference in the world and it could be a parent it could be a teacher it could be a coach but those are the people who really make a difference in your life. Yeah well I think yeah a lot of people in my generation like they don't really do that and I I'm kind of guilty of that I don't thank my parents that much as much as I should. Neither did you know I look back on it and I think gosh I didn't you know I look at all the things they did for me and I wish I you know back then I you know you think like oh that's just the way it is well you know you got to realize people make sacrifices and so that would be the one thing I wish I could go back now and tell them how much you know how much I appreciate what they did for me I know I did it then but I wish I could do it even more and have another chance to do it now. So I'm gonna move on to another subject too. Absolutely. When have you started be like getting into like more lost stuff like was it like a lifetime thing or? No you know well it was something I always was aware of because my father was a lawyer too but you know I looked at doing different things that I think what really changed it for me is I had the opportunity after I was in college to go work in Washington DC on Capitol Hill and the people who I saw there who really were able to make an impact they were journalists and they were lawyers and I looked up to those folks and I thought you know that's something I would really like to do both of them. I was a journalist for a while I worked as a reporter and then I decided that law was really the calling for me so you know I'd done a lot of different things thought about it and came to the conclusion that was the right way for me to be able to contribute the way I wanted to contribute here. Well guys with all good things must come to an end I just wish you had a little bit more time I want to thank Chief Justice Recton Wald for coming and talking with me today. Thank you Parker it was just great to have this opportunity thank you for coming thank you for giving me this opportunity again thanks to Think Tech Hawaii. Thanks I'm Parker Wynow and this has been another episode of Finding Our Future on Think Tech Hawaii