 Live from the JSA Podcast Studio, presenting Data Movers, showcasing the leaders behind the headlines in the telecom and data center infrastructure industry. Welcome to our new podcast series, Data Movers. I'm Jamie Scott-Okitaya, founder and CEO of JSA. And along with me, my co-host, top B2B social media influencer, Evan Christel. Great to see you again. I see we've made it to our second episode. So it's all onwards and upwards from here at the Data Movers podcast, where we sit down with amazing and influential men and women in today's telco and data center world, who are supporting the network infrastructure requirements that make this all possible, including this podcast. So it's quite an exciting series. I also want to mention a particular topic near and dear to our hearts, is that this is a special Veterans Day edition. I think every day should frankly be Veterans Day, but this in particular honors the men and women who proudly serve for us in our military. So I think recognizing Veterans Now is particularly important, both the folks on the front lines and the folks in the guard here at home during COVID. And their folks are really putting themselves and their families at risk in this difficult time. So look forward to really discussing Veterans and Veterans Day issues in detail. Yeah, and I think this is particularly a day to reflect on what does it mean to be a veteran, especially in this new reality of COVID. And I can think of no better industry expert to bring on as we discuss this than my friend Lee Kirby, co-founder and chairman of Salute Mission Critical. Lee, thank you so much for joining us. And happy Veterans Day, my friend. Thank you. I'm honored to be here. It'll be a fun discussion, I think. Thanks for being here, Lee. And I noticed from your bio that you've served 36 years in the US military. I guess that makes you about 46 or so. So with tours in Europe and the Caribbean, I like to hear about that actually, the Caribbean tour. Asia, of course in the Middle East, you were tired as a colonel. So tell us about that journey and some of the lessons and leadership that you learned throughout your service and how you were inspired to found, Salute Mission Critical after your military retirement. Sounds great. So my career is kind of a parallel story and it's a story of a lot of people that end up spending time in the Guard and Reserve. So I think it'll bring home a lot of different messages. But I joined in 1976, I enlisted and I was an Appalachian farm boy and wanted to get my college degree. So joined for the GI Bill and went in, did my four years active duty and came out of active duty into the reserves. Eventually in 82, I got my commission and stayed in the reserves. And we call it a citizen soldier. You wanted to be ready in case you were ever called upon. And the first time I was called upon was the mid 90s. And the Caribbean sounds cool but Haiti wasn't quite the Caribbean. So we met in Haiti and had a humanitarian mission there. And I deployed there as a captain and then went back into the reserve system and we started to see a change in tempo. We became more of an operational reserve than a strategic reserve and seeing our troops. We were getting people ready for Bosnia and Croatia and Somalia and then eventually the Gulf War. And then I got called up again after 9-11, six more times. So what started out as four years active duty ended up 10 and a half years active duty and spanned over 36 years as a citizen soldier. So it was a fascinating going back and forth between each world. And my first transition from active duty was actually in 1981 when I started in the technology business and entered in as a trainee in a programming role and was doing punch cards for a similar level programming of mainframe. So that'll show you how much of a dinosaur I am at times. So is that how you stumbled into the data center industry, if you will? It is, it was a long path to the data centers. I started out as a programmer, came up through the ranks there. We got this new technology called Kobal and then CICS and we thought we were cool. We could do online screens and then it got more and more sophisticated and I moved into networking as a project manager of deploying client server environments and eventually got into professional services and first met a company called Exodus in the late 90s and worked with them and met just a ton of great people who are scattered throughout the data center business now and form long-term relationships there. And then from Exodus, stayed in the data center business and ended up more in the infrastructure component of it, the site level activity of building data centers, running them, the mechanical and electrical plan as well as the IT and the race floor environment. And so I've been in the data center business since the late 90s and that's really when we started seeing the data center sector itself take off. That's interesting. I see a lot of veterans in the telecom and networking industry. It seems like an industry that's an interesting mix of, you know, physicality, you know, going to strange places and climbing towers in some cases and doing all kinds of interesting physical work combined with, you know, that mental acuity that's required to deploy a network. But why is it from your perspective, it's been a good industry for veterans? I think it's one of the best industries to match veteran skills and what they've been trained in the military is how to solve problems, how to plan through the difficulty, how to adapt continuously to a changing landscape. If you look at the pace of change in our environment and the rate of growth in our market, it's mind boggling at time. Technology that we were using just 10 years ago is being thrown out the door. So a veteran can adapt and overcome quickly and can continuously learn because they were taught that from day one. When you go in and you're a farm boy from Tennessee, within 12 weeks, you're a different person. You've been changed and transformed. 12 weeks is not a long period of time, but that transformation continues because they ingrain in you the concept of continuous improvement, continuous learning because without it you stagnate and data center business is just like that. You cannot sit on your laurels. You can't stop learning. To me, that's the perfect match for a veteran and veteran of any specialty. I was infantry and became civil affairs and had nothing to do with technology. But what did get me into the technology space was my critical thinking, problem solving and focusing on the outcome. And I think that's what all veterans bring to the table. I definitely hear in and I've been very fortunate to see some of your trained veterans at work in action. Some of the most notable data center companies in our industry. So I can attest to that perfect match. But for those who might not already know, can you tell us a little bit about salute mission criticals mission? You bet. We started salute, tried to start it in 2012. It took us to about 2013 because we went down a couple of different routes. At that time we had finished a surge. So there were a lot of veterans coming back from the surge. There had also been a significant recession. So unemployment was up. If you had enlisted in the military, gone and done a couple of combat tours, come back and gotten out. Chances were more than 20% that you were on the unemployment line. I was retiring at the time and it didn't make sense to me, but I had seen for multiple deployments, my colleagues would leave and come back to no job and I'd left and come back to no job at times, just because of the way the situation is. But I was fortunate. I had a career and could get a job quickly. A lot of them didn't. So whether you were active duty, reserve or guard, you were being impacted by your service. And I wanted to continue serving and I thought the best way I could do that was leverage my relationships and my experience in what I knew, which was the data center industry. And so myself and my co-founder, Jason Oakroy, got together with this idea that we could develop the training protocols to take any veteran. And our industry's famous for hiring folks from the Navy and the Navy Nukes and the communications people from the Air Force and all of the branches. But we don't always think about the whole pie because that's only a certain percentage of the pie, but that whole 200, 250,000 includes a lot of truck drivers and cooks and mechanics and infantry people. We wanted our training to be able to take any of those, adapt them and train them quickly, just like they did when they entered the military, go through very intense individual training, get hands-on training and then get on the project teams from the project teams that get on the operating teams. And over a period of years, we built the company and it's been a phenomenal commercial success. And I think it's a great example that you can have commercial success and have social responsibility as the forefront to your mission, because while we were wanting to solve that unemployment problem for veterans and we wanted to use the personnel crisis that we have in this industry as well as solve it, but that was our opportunity for the veterans, put those two together and we've had a windstorm to going from zero in 2013. We now have over 400 full-time employees in 10 countries and never imagined it would go outside of the US, but we followed our clients outside of the US and we now have 12 different countries, militaries represented in our ranks too. And that's something I'm very proud of because there are the same issues in other countries just not as large because they have smaller militaries and different social programs. But if you think about it from a pure commercial point of view, it's our secret weapon. And what started out as for a good cause has actually been the platform that we've leveraged because we've brought the best of both worlds, civilian and military practices together with that military execution and precision. And the model has taken off, I think the market has responded well and because of our growth it's proven that the model does work. That's phenomenal. Well, congratulations. And as we're actually celebrating Veterans Day here on the podcast, what would you tell your fellow veterans out there listening in terms of practical advice, maybe who might be struggling either personally or professionally? One is don't give up but leverage the network and use this podcast to reach out and contact me and other organizations like Infrastructure Masons are trying to raise visibility and open doors for veterans into the industry because we do have a personnel shortage. There's thousands of jobs going unanswered and they're everything from construction work to security to loading docks to driving trucks. Doesn't have to be an engineer. Whatever skill you have, what you learned in the military is highly valued in this space because of that critical thinking and problem solving. We've been hiring, we went from an unemployment problem to what I consider an underemployment problem. So the last few years, we've been finding folks that had gotten out of the military and because they didn't know of the opportunities, they're making coffee or delivering sandwiches and moving furniture. And if that's what they wanna do all their life, that's fine but this is so much better career. I think so much more challenging and if you have that desire to continuously learn and grow, we're trying to make sure that the veterans know there's an option out there. So it's to me about networking and reaching out and not giving up, preparing yourself the other great thing with the programs that we're doing in the industry is there's scholarships too available because of the fundraising and things that aren't normally covered by the GI Bill, you can get access to and get data center specific training. And it just takes the desire and drive. And if you've got that aptitude, I think this is a great industry for any veteran. That's phenomenal. What about on the flip side? We have a lot of CXO types and business leaders who are listening and looking to push the next step of success in their career. How could they work with you to leverage what you've learned as a veteran entrepreneur? We're gonna be publishing a playbook here soon that will help them set up their own concept for how to attract and hire and train and transition veterans and continuously develop them. But I would say step back and don't get lost at the top of the iceberg, give the whole analogy of an iceberg, look below the surface because what typically happens is when you have a veteran apply, you'll immediately ask them what their MOS or specialty was. And if you hear something that's not technical, you immediately assume that's what they know, but you're wrong. Let me use what's the most example I think that is the best example is infantry. You think about the infantry closing with and killing the enemy. And that's all you usually think about. To be able to do that, they're supporting tasks. They had to maintain their equipment, their communication systems, their weapon systems. And they did that based on procedures that they followed religiously because that's what they were trained to do. They didn't understand the inner workings of it, didn't have the engineering background, but they understood that if they follow this checklist, that equipment will be maintained in working order and make the difference between life and death. Those skills are what we make data center technicians out of. A data center technician is doing the same thing an infantryman does, but they're just walking around the data center following the procedures and making sure that if anything unexpected happens, it gets escalated up. If they'd look past that specialty, look at the supporting skills. I think that's a real key to businesses. So HR departments many times will send someone down a different path than what really is their water purification experts out there that come from the military are often usually sent towards the sewage departments and water departments in cities. Data centers are all about water. That's a great person to get into your data center and teach how to help maintain your data center. So there's a lot below the surface that you should look at. And don't think that if you see them in the airport, this is something we were talking about earlier. There's always the feel good feeling of buying a veteran coffee or buying someone in uniform coffee. What I would like to suggest and even challenges don't buy them coffee anymore. They've got plenty of coffee. Give them a business card, wish them well, ask them to get a hold of you when they come back and give them an interview. And if you don't have a job, do the courtesy interview with them, coach them on what they need to do to fix their resume and to be able to get a job and refer them on. That's cheaper than a cup of coffee and way more effective because all you want when you come back is to restart life, to get the job and to support the family. And that would go a long way. If you start giving out business cards to the folks in uniform instead of coffee, we'll have a big difference. I love that. I love that. And I can just imagine the change that this global pandemic has brought to veterans trying to find their career path after serving and how salute has been just critical in matching the needs of those hiring with our veterans. So I can't thank you more for your service, not only with the uniform on, but what you're doing as the founder of Salute and particularly now during this pandemic when it's a different world. I could just imagine the pandemic's impacts on Salute has been incredible. It has and there's so many stories we could share but I think it's a good example of what I was talking about continuous learning and adaptability. The teams adapted very quickly to this environment and we're taught in the military to don our mock gear. It's called in different levels of exposure and different risks. You may put it on or you may carry it or you may put it half on and get ready to zip and put the mask on. So they're used to changing protocols and adapting quickly. So as we got into this situation, we're in multiple countries and we're deploying technology. We took on a project for a customer that we're actually been moving to 120 different countries deploying technology and we've been able to do that because our planning and coordination skills from the military give us the capability to adapt quickly. We find out what the protocols are to get through the border as an essential workforce. We get through the border. We use our protective gear and our PPE to make sure that we limit exposure but the veterans can operate in that environment very calmly and use the protocols and understand that what they're doing today will be different tomorrow but adapt and overcome. We've even adapted our workforce to be more virtual even though we're a hands-on service. We do a lot more of our training virtually and have even spun up teams in other countries that typically we meet face to face but now we're gonna be meeting them in a couple months because we just can't get to them now but it's changing the way you work and I think we may come out of this better than we went into it because there won't be a going back to the way it used to be. There's gonna be something new that we're doing and adapting and learning from that and bridging that gap I think is one of the strengths that you get out of a very inclusive and diverse workforce that you get with veterans. Couldn't agree more. All right, so let's end this with a few rapid fire fun facts. I love this section. So Lee tell us the first thing that comes to mind. Here we go. Who is the most influential person you've ever met? General Odierno. I think the world of him and so many of the other generals and I actually, I was so fortunate to be part of some high level teams that met several presidents but just meeting a president or being part of a briefing team isn't the same. I got a chance to work closely with him in Iraq and was amazed at the transformation, how quickly he learned where we talk about kinetic and non kinetic and when you're gonna win a counter insurgency you have to understand the influence of both of those worlds and he was a master at it and there's several books been written by it but I was just in awe to see him in action and the commitment that he had. So he's the guy that even though he may not be as high ranking as national leaders I have a ton of respect for it. Love that answer. What is your favorite holiday? We are in the holiday season now. Thanksgiving because well not the pressure of gifts but to us it's family, bring the family together and visit and share and it's the most wonderful holiday there is and it's just my favorite of all. And what is your greatest achievement to date? I've had a lot of stuff I think I could brag about. Please brag, brag for us, let's brag on us. I've got a wife and three kids that have put up with me and I've missed so many birthdays and anniversaries and they still love me and treat me like I'm part of the family and I would not have blamed them anywhere along the line to kick me to the curve but not only do I have the three kids, I've got grandchildren who think that everything I say is possible and that'll wear off in a few years but as long as they're still talking to me I'm just happy as can be. All right, you're gonna make me tear up in a minute this would not look good on video so let's move along here. Well, I can attest to how awesome his family is. I told Lee about my expecting child. He was one of the very first people I told. His wife made her a blanket which still to this day blows my mind but just love your family, Lee. Thank you. Yeah, and if you could have dinner with one person dead or alive, which is kind of a weird way to put it but who would it be? Who would that one person be? Bill Gates, I watch him and how he has touched every part of our life with what he developed and brought to market but then how he turned from that and what he and Melinda are doing with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is just awesome. I think that if I had dinner with him I would bore the heck out of him because I've seen interviews with him and he can have several trains of thought going at the same time and talking about curing disease and eradicating it from the world to making sure that people don't die of malaria and the things that he's doing is just amazing. The combination of him and Warren Buffett we could have a heck of a time if I could figure out how to beat him in cards or something to keep him entertained. Oh, that'd be great. I'm for Abraham Lincoln but I don't think he's available so maybe Bill Gates is a better choice. Well, thank you so much, Lee, for joining us and sharing your insights around Veterans Day and for all the inspiration and really giving some color to who veterans really are. I mean, so few of us actually know men and women who serve and many of us sort of almost think of them as nameless, faceless kind of robots that we send overseas but it just shows how dynamic and interesting our veterans are and how important it is to support them and their personal and professional side. So thanks again for your service. I appreciate it. And the thing that people don't realize is if you get past the emotional part of it it's a great commercial decision to bring veterans into your workforce. We're a microcosm of society. We're gonna drive your diversity numbers. We're gonna bring a different way of thinking and salute just in and of itself. The thing that makes my heart warm is we run about 10 to 12% of those we hire or homeless when we hire them. And that's a tragedy in and of itself but we're having an impact on people's lives but it's to a double benefit. People talk about triple bottom line companies. This is really a great commercial success and a great success for social responsibility when you bring veterans in. So grateful for what you do, Lee, truly. And it's our honor to have you here and sharing your message, your mission with others and closing that gap from not just the homeless but the unemployed to getting them trained up and so amazing to have folks who are already and able to work under extreme conditions like the pandemic has brought upon us into our data center industry. So thank you and, Flee. Thanks for having me. It's always fun to talk with you. And if you enjoyed today's Data Movers podcast, go ahead and check out jsa.net slash podcasts for upcoming Data Movers episodes released every other week that's on a Wednesday. And go ahead also to check out JSA Podcast series. Their other ones are there as well. Today's episode again, a very special edition attribute to our veterans and we will be back on schedule next week with a new episode releasing on November 18th. Yeah, and be sure to follow us on Twitter at JSCOTTO and me here, Evan Kerstel. And we'll be tweeting and posting on Veterans Day about veterans issues. So join in the chat and let's have a conversation there. And as always, happy networking.