 Hello, welcome everyone. I'm really happy to have you here with us today. We have a lot of people very interested in this subject. Happy to see you all here. Today, we have a webinar on design thinking process, how to empathize with users and define the problem. With us, we have Federico Storga UX Design, Setara Senior UX Researcher and Zoe Ripon, Product Experience Lead, who are our experts from Moodle, that will lead this session. Guys, the floor is all yours. Yeah, thank you so much, Anna. So yeah, I have to say I'm amazed at being super happy of having Setara and Zoe here as well. We are some of the members of the Moodle design team. And yeah, we're going to be sharing with you. I'm going to go to the next slide. So we're going to be sharing with you a bit of the design thinking process, also like all the stages of the design thinking process, but we're going to do also a special in-depth kind of explanation of on the first two stages that is the empathize and define, because we want to share how to, it's as a title, right? How to empathize with users and define the problem, because this is really, really important in the design thinking process, something that we apply in our day-to-day basis in Moodle as designers. So I'm going to explain first a bit about the design thinking process. This is a brief explanation from interactiondesign.org. It's a really good website with really good resources, and it says that it's a nonlinear iterative process that teams use to understand users, challenge assumptions, create defined problems, and create innovative solutions to prototype and test. And if you see in the image on the right, it has five stages, but it also kind of the little text you see on top and below, it's important to consider that the first two stages is to understand the problem space, and the next and the other three stages is to work on solutions. As you can see, it's like iterative, but also an important thing. And so I learned when teaching UX is that design thinking is not like a recipe. It's not that when you're cooking and you follow exactly each step, but it's something more flexible, and that's why it says it is nonlinear. It's the way that according to the problem and the kind of the context that we are facing, and we might take some more time with some stages, less time with others. So yeah, the more we understand our design thinking, the better we can apply it, right? So it's also important to comment that the design thinking process is based on a universal set of principles, empathy, creativity and experimentation. So it's actually important to say that it can be applied by anyone. So it's not confined to any specific professional field. And this is kind of a method that is really versatile and is an adaptable approach that can be utilized by people in any role. So it's really good that that's why it's very innovative as we kind of include these principles, empathy, creativity and experimentation. And it has these five stages that I'm going to go a bit into detail here. So we have the first stage is empathize and is how we understand the problem through user research. And also, if you see the image on the right, just below the image there's a little block with information. It's a measure that is really important and it says that the kind of the empathize phase is crucial for empathetic human-certified design process as it allows to set aside our own assumptions and gain real insight into users and their needs. So this is super important for us as designers in Moodle because if we don't gather the information from the users, we are working, let's say, biased by our own assumptions and the thoughts that we have in our mind. And once you empathize with the user all the information they have to share about their experience, you realize and in many situations it happened to me as a designer that I think what is the problem and think I know and when I gather all this information I realize that the focus can be more specific and even something different than what I expected, right? So that's why it's crucial for human-certified design. Then the next stage is the defined stage is where we accumulate and analyze information gathered during the empathized stage and synthesizing it to define the core problem. So if we gather a lot of information in the empathized phase as the idea, in the defined stage, as it says, we synthesize and we define what are the main things that we want to solve from all that information that we gather, right? And we're going to be sharing in this webinar some of the tools that we use. There are many tools but there's no time to explain all of them. We're going to explain just a few of them. We're going to explain a tool for define and in the third stage, the idea is where we generate a wide range of ideas to identify innovative solutions to the problem, a statement formulated in the defined stage. So once we kind of conclude what is the main core, like the core problem that we want to solve, then we start brainstorming about different ways of solving that problem, yeah? And this is like also why design think this is considered very like a creative process because in the idea it is where we actually put many solutions on the table without kind of putting aside some solutions. You know, all the solutions that we address or that we share with our team are equally valuable, right? And then we go to the fourth stage is the prototype is where we create inexpensive, scaled-down versions of the product for specific features to investigate the ideas generated in the idea stage. So this is where we use tools in the context of model as designers because design thinking can be applied in any industry, but in the digital industry, we use tools to design like the interface. And we go from across what we call the low fidelity or mid fidelity and then high fidelity. So as we test and as we gather more information, it's important that we define kind of a really simple prototype just like a concept to share with our users. That it takes us to the test stage is where we validate the solutions to users to see how effectively they address the problem and meet the user's needs identified in early stages. So once we can say display the solution and create this prototype, we go back to users again to share with them what we have created and to see how this meets their user needs. So I add this slide because it's basically kind of the main focus that we want to do in the presentation because it helps us to understand the product space and this is something that I feel by working in other companies and sometimes in Moodle, we're bringing many new things for the design thinking process in Moodle and we tend to forget about these two stages because it's really common that once we gather some information from a problem that a user might have or a stakeholder might have, we consider or we think that we understand the problem and nothing, we jump straight away to solutions. But it is really important to set that space for us to gather enough information so we can objectively decide what is the best possible outcome and what is the most challenging problem that is happening and that we want to solve. So this gives us, it says in the description, this gives us enough context to deliver a user-centered solution. And these are some of the tools that we use in Moodle and in any designer that might be using this design thinking process in other companies. These are just some of the tools. We have interviews, usability testing, card sorting, journey mapping, and also quantitative data. And some of you, maybe you may know this, some of the tools, maybe you don't, but I share with you a link below that it has a really good resources where it explains many more, it shares many more tools and it gives you detailed information on how to use them and why to use them. So yeah, we're going to be sharing with you the journey mapping and we're going to share with you also the needs statement. So this takes us to the next slide where I'm introducing Setara that she's going to help us explaining the journey mapping. Thanks, Federico. So I'll be talking a little bit about journey mapping, which is just one of the tools that Federico mentioned that we use to help us learn more about our users and what their problems might be. So what is a journey map? What do we even mean when we say the word journey? A journey is simply the steps that you take on the way to accomplishing a goal. And a journey map is just a visual representation of those steps. And you can see an example of a journey map on the slide, on the image there on the right. So this, I know it's going to be difficult for you to see the details, but I can talk about it at a high level. This is just a journey map for someone who has the goal of ordering lunch for their office. So the map captures all of the steps that they take. If you look at the first row, it says doing, those are all the actions that someone might be taking on this journey. And then also the little decisions that they need to make or the thoughts or questions that they have as they try to accomplish that goal. So some of the things they might be doing are asking around the office to find out who wants to order lunch, and choosing a place to order from, figuring out how everyone's going to pay, all the little things that are involved in this process. So you can see here in the second and third rows, in addition to the actions that people are taking, the journey map also captures what people are thinking and feeling at each of those steps. So what are the questions or concerns they might have throughout the journey? Are they ever frustrated, excited, hopeful, happy, overwhelmed, all of those kinds of things. And all of this is really important when trying to understand where there might be difficulties and where the experience can be improved. Next slide. So why a journey map? What are they good for? What do we use them for? Like Fetty mentioned, this is really something that we use in the beginning stages of the design thinking process in that define and empathize phase. At Moodle, we use journey mapping as one of the tools to learn more about our customers' experiences and how those experiences can be improved. But like it was already mentioned, it can be used in any context. You can use it to better understand the experience of someone who's buying house or applying to university or something as simple as making a cup of coffee. So journey maps are great for understanding and experience more broadly, including what's happening outside of a particular product or service. So if we take Moodle, for example, yes, it's very important for us to understand what people are doing in Moodle, how they're using the tool, but we also need to understand the broader context of what people are doing and how Moodle fits into that broader context. And a journey map is one way that we can do that. Journey maps also allow participants to dive more deeply into their experience. So if we have users of Moodle actually creating a map about their own experience, they might uncover problems or steps that aren't immediately obvious in something like an interview or a survey. But most importantly, it helps us to identify and understand people's goals and their needs and their problems before starting to explore solutions like Fetty talked about earlier. Next slide. Thank you. So if we look at another example of what a finished journey map might look like, this is a journey map that was actually created by a group of people at the UX Jam this year at the Moodle Mood in September. They mapped their journey of creating a new course from scratch. So you can see the general format is the same. There are rows for doing, thinking, feeling, and they've organized it into different phases. So for instance, in the research phase, maybe they're deciding and defining what the course needs to be, what it will cover. There are a lot of questions in this phase. In the planning phase, they're creating an outline and starting to plan and so on and so forth throughout the build and test phase all the way to making the course live. So it's a really great visual of that experience. One thing to mention is that in every journey map that you might create or lead other people in creating is that there are certain decisions that need to be made before you start. So one of them is the scope of what you're hoping to cover. So where does the journey start, where does it end? There are no specific rules about that. It really just depends on what part of the journey you want to focus on. Next slide. So if we go back to the design thinking process the journey mapping activity fits really nicely in that empathize and define phase or those phases because they help us understand people's experiences identify areas of pain so that we can take those into the next steps which is ideating solutions and it's really important for us to understand what those problems are before we start diving into solutions. A couple more things to mention about journey mapping before we get into looking at the process of actually creating the map and how you can either do this activity on your own or lead others through this activity one of those is that journey maps it focuses on a single journey for a single person for a specific goal so if it's something that multiple people are working on together the journey map will be created from the perspective of one of those people and what their particular experience is like. The second thing is that journey maps cover the current experience it's to help us understand what's actually happening right now and it's not software specific so it's not something like a user flow where it covers what are all the screens and clicks and things that people aren't going through in a product it really is a little bit more zoomed out and the focus is more on general steps and goals not specific to a certain software so an example of a software specific task might be create an announcement in Moodle with upcoming exam dates if we wanted to make that more general we'd say inform students of upcoming exam dates so that's just one step removed out of the software specific focus next up okay so I'm just going to go over the steps for how you would create a journey map it's not very complicated this is something that with a little bit of preparation you can definitely do on your own or with a group you can do this on paper in a live setting with sticky notes you can do it online in a collaboration tool like Miro and like I mentioned you can do this on your own to document what you know or what you think you know about someone's journey or you can actually lead people through this activity so they create a journey map based on first-hand experience that you can then learn from so the first step would just be to make sure you're really clear on the goal that you want to focus on and the perspective so who is whose journey is actually being documented you're just going to create some horizontal lines and label those rows with doing thinking and feeling and the first step would be to fill in the doing row so what are all the things that are done on the way to achieving this goal and then the first step you don't have to worry about the exact order of all the steps just get as many steps as you can think of down on sticky notes or on you know on a digital board and you can organize them later next step next slide and so the next step is to then start organizing all of those steps chronologically if they're not chronological already so you kind of want a timeline as close as you can get to a realistic timeline of how these steps are are taken so if there are related sticky notes or related steps you can kind of cluster them together in little groups but once you have everything kind of in the right order take a look at the steps and then you can start to divide them into phases with vertical lines and label each phase so if you think about the examples that we saw phases can be things like planning or checking or monitoring or researching whatever that might be whatever is appropriate for the step that you're taking at that time next slide so after you've got the steps all laid out and then divided into phases it's time to start filling in those thinking and feeling phases so you want to align the thoughts and the feelings to the relevant phase or step in the same column for thinking it's helpful just to think about what are some thoughts that are going through someone's mind or going through your mind while you're doing these steps what questions might you have what might not be clear for feelings it's really about emotion so is there frustration relief, uncertainty any of those types of things you want to capture in the relevant phase in the step and next slide and then the final step once you have all of the steps and the thinking and the feeling all laid out is just to take a look at the map and see if there's anything that jumps out as particularly difficult or painful specifically when looking at the thinking and feeling rows that can be really helpful it can be a really good indication of where is there a lot of negative emotions in a certain area are there a lot of questions or uncertainty if you look at the steps are there manual steps that take a lot of time that could be streamlined so if you're doing this on your own you would just kind of circle those areas that you think are particularly painful if you're doing it with a group you can get the group to vote or somehow agree on the most painful part of the process what we've done in the past is just everyone gets two votes and you just tally up the votes at the end so through this process you get a pretty good view going through all of these steps and what you end up with you get a pretty good view of the steps people are taking throughout a journey the experience is like for them internally so their thoughts their feelings and where they're experiencing the most difficulty and this is really valuable information to take into the next step which is going to be further defining those problems getting really specific about the problem that you want to tackle and solve and I'll pass it back to Fetty now and he's going to talk about another activity that we use to help to help to find the problems yeah thank you so much Cedara I'll be speaking about the needs statement that is actually is perfect to comment next to journey mapping because it follows the same kind of the same process as Cedara says is an actionable statement that contents your perspective on the problem so it actually provides a metric for success that you can use for product development and we are here a quote from Nils and Norman Group that says it's a complicated way of communicating your user and their need and if we see in the design thinking process so it as Cedara said you know it helps us define it helps us to condense the relevant information we have gathered in a way that helps in framing solutions for it and is the needs statement is made of three elements we have the user that is someone that you're designing for in this case can be the specific role you're designing for or the same user persona that you're creating the journey map so we include the user in the needs statement then it comes the second element that is the need and it's a requirement or desire that people have in this case from the perspective of our user where the desires that they have what they want to accomplish and sorry the goal is what they have to accomplish is what they are looking to achieve so if we see on the statement structure we have these three elements that I just previously mentioned we have the user and the whole phase would be a user needs to meet these requirements so they can benefit in this way and I'm going to show some examples on how we use this structure it's important to say that it's quite common you know when you start using the needs statement and sometimes you frame not in exactly the right way that it should be because sometimes our initial instinct for a literal solution can be limiting rushing into this approach might unintentionally narrow down the range of other potential options so in this case we see we have the user that is Sara and needs to have an alert so that they won't miss their flight but have an alert there's no focus what our Sara needs and Sara feelings and it happens the same with the goal and we're talking about something external rather than including the user on that statement and if we see an example on how to do it when we outline what is needed we can better focus on ideas that help achieve the goal so we have the user Sara needs a way to organize her travel schedule so that she can feel calm when arriving at the airport so when we frame the needs in this way we are allowing for the next step to for the ideation that is the next step after you define the problem we're allowing with this statement on a lot of more solutions not only about what an alert because an alert is already the solution and we have the goal that we see that we're approaching the goal with including the user's feelings so you can see that in this case Sara ideas that she feels calm when arriving at the airport so these are the steps on how to do the needs statement first we do the brainstorming we have the we do the brainstorming and because if I go back we have the user the user is always the same the same one that we use in the journey mapping and we start brainstorming on the next two signals that is the need and the goal so we write as many needs and goals separate in post-it notes as Sara said it can be physically it can be also digital and so we define we write one need and one goal per post-it note and we put them together and we create as many as we can so this is where the creative process comes handy and this is what again identifies the designing the process as something very creative when we're thinking about many solutions and this leads to really interesting outcomes and then we have the contents so hopefully you are doing this with other team members and you can read and discuss and you can have an open conversation so you are not kind of biased to a specific solution but you can comment and say why some solutions like why some signals are better framed than others and so you can vote the best idea the basic statement and you can kind of create the final statement that you are going to use in the next stages so what are the next stages what is going to happen next is that we already let's say that we are following the design thinker process we already empathize and define and the next stages the next one would be ideate in this case we would use the need statement so we can do brainstorm activities to come up with the best solution for this need statement so we are framing this problem and we think on how many ways we can solve this for and how many ways we can solve this and then we move to the next stage so when we choose one of these solutions through discussion again we deem and we create the inexpensive scale down version on the prototype stage and once we create this we go for the testing so we go back to the user that is the one who goes through the journey with the final start we go to the user and then we share the prototype so we can gather feedback and to see if this solution is actually fitting or helping to achieve the goal that they want to do and so also to put you in context I am going to explain a case study that was done in the LMS in Moodle by Savina she is a great designer with the LMS and she share with me kind of information about this case study we see that it has the Moodle branding because this was present in the UX jump and this is about the activity cards redesign so the design process in this project we follow the design thinking process so if we see the first dot in top of the dot I could empathize because this stage we kind of condensed and we went through these stages so the first thing that was that happened in this project that we conducted an extensive analysis of all community forums and partner issues capturing our users pain points and frustrations they had expressed so we went through the empathize and define and through all the information we had in the community forums we felt confident enough to understand the context as users were sharing many of their feedback and screenshots and ideas so we brought this information we empathize with the user and we come to define the problem that I'm going to show in the next slide but this stage also allows us at the end of the description of the first step allowing us to create initial design concepts if I go to the next slide this is some of the issues of the community feedback that was gathered for this project so after gathering all these extensive feedback and a lot of information from the community and partner issues we could define the pain points so in this case the pain points identified was interface partner issues also excessive scrolling needed to understand the course big picture that we call scroll of death also the activity icons present a challenge in terms of differentiation and also the user generic file icon across various file types so once we gathered pain points we frame the user goals and you see that these are basically needs statements according to the two users that were the mainly players or main users in this project we have a student that says that I need a way to quickly scan the course of every page so I can grasp the essential content and get started on my course sooner and from the teacher I need a way to quickly and easily adjust primary activity settings so I spend less time constructing and updating my courses so after we define these these statements we go to the next stage in the process where was conducted a semi structure a design feedback session that involves 10 community users so we show the prototype to the users and the design feedback session is another tool where we involve the prototypes and we involve different users in a kind of to gather their feedback about the prototype that's why I put a prototype and test on the top and at the end of the description I add design adjustments based on their feedback so we gather and then we can improve the prototype and the next stage on the project is we do more testing in this case we are conducting usability tests in this case with Moodle and non-Moodle users it's having a conducted 16 minutes moderated usability test with cove community users and also 15 minutes a moderated test with 9 Moodle users so usability testing is really handy because we can use them live sessions with users and then also some asynchronous on moderated tests with other users and this allow us to define the final solution for these problems that we define and these are some of the users involved in the usability testing we have they were 31 users involved in the usability testing that's a lot of users but also we we see that in Moodle sometimes changing something in the effects of many users so we want to gather as much feedback as possible from the roles that we consider necessary that they have a key role in the experience so we have 22 content creators, teachers and admins we have 4 teachers that are non-Moodle users and 5 students that are non-Moodle users and this is some of the results of the usability test so we have high response and feedback more than 75% of success rate in 10 out of 13 tasks and a minimal number of pain pain points were experienced so through this usability test we gather more feedback you can see that in some tasks they didn't perform very well some others better but we see the improvement every time we gather the feedback and we do these changes in the prototype that's super important so we can be sure that everything we're changing is still a better solution this is some of the feedback from the users, in this case the Moodle admin and educator support said I really like what you can cover over things and it tells you what they are that's fantastic, I like that you can click on this group and then it can change so we can see how they explain about how this experience is better and we also have feedback from Moodle educator support so they see like a cleaner interface and they kind of give detail into what their experience is like and this is super useful to us and then this is basically how the solution looks like so this of course has an impact on the end interface of the product this is kind of a high fidelity like after we see the feedback from the prototypes and the testing this is the end solution so we have in the image we have the before on the left side and the after this is in this case this is the edit mode so this is only viewed by teachers and we have also the view mode in this case also can be seen by teachers or students and we have the before and after and we can see how we are kind of condensing the information trying to address these user needs that we gather and this all this information was like actually really easy to put together since this is something that we held in the UX jam and we held this workshop with some users that came to the Moodle Mood global and it was amazing it was an amazing experience and of course I want to say like a huge huge thank you to the whole design team because this information this is basically a presentation where I put together some information that we contacted in the UX jam and it was not only thanks to Zetara and Zoe but to the whole team so yeah I just wanted to take that one slide to them and now it's time for questions if we have some questions in the chat or yeah do we have some questions there for the presentation and none as far I can see right now I don't know if someone wants to add something well all I can say is that make a short comment about the effect that this UX design workshop had in the global Mood I do remember that everybody was talking about it afterwards and for long time so I hope next year we will have the chance to do something similar and I hope that some of our participants here will be able to join us yeah it was great I also want to share that in the workshop we had people from many users from many different roles and even some a lot more technical side but also maybe on the teacher or learning designer we had many different kind of roles and all of them they were sharing how great it was to understand all this to understand these tools and to understand how to better empathize with users and how to use this information in a meaningful way so it was really we got really good feedback from from many different members that's why I said that these principles, these values are really useful to any kind of role actually we only have a comment or a question from Luke who's asking the feeling means like mood board is that what you mean the feeling you mean in the journey mapping or I think so Luke would you like to clarify your question yes the journey map yes right I don't know if she can give some insights in there would you like to answer the question yeah I'm not sure what's meant by mood board but I think the feeling is just a way to kind of get a sense of what the emotional journey is like so not just what people are doing but what they're feeling is they're going through that journey and that's kind of one of the things that is going to help us understand pain points or difficulties that might not be obvious if we're just looking at what people are doing so I'm not sure what's meant by mood board but if a mood board is a different type of visualization of that feeling definitely you can just take the feeling section of a journey map and create something else that kind of shows that emotional experience if you want to pull that out of the journey map and look at that independently I think that's definitely something that you can do yeah yes Luke confirms that that's exactly what he meant Lisa says that I have no questions but I want to say thank you as it's been really useful and interesting session the other says is DT the standard tool for production development in your organization or do you use other methods too can you repeat sorry the standard is the DT the standard tool for product development in your organization or do you use other methods as well the standard what do we exactly mean by standard I don't think that I don't think of design thinking as a method a specific method specific tool like Fetty mentioned in the beginning of the presentation I think it's more a framework or a way of approaching problems a way of identifying and approaching problem solving it is kind of like a process but also like Fetty said it's not necessarily a step-by-step process it's not consecutive you might kind of oscillate back and forth between different phases it's kind of a guiding thought process for how we approach looking at and identifying problems and then how we might solve those problems so there's lots of methods that kind of fit into that approach so things like interviewing surveying lots of different research methods that we can learn about our customers through or about users and noodle and then the design team has lots of other processes that they partake in through their iteration of different solutions so it's kind of a framework I guess rather than one single method that we do everything with I might just add a little bit onto that we also change the approach that we take on a case-by-case basis for the project that we're working on so some projects might be quite unknown and quite large and we might apply many more tools from the tool built to that particular process and spend a lot more time in the first two stages because it's a really important big piece of work versus something that we might know a lot about and we have a very good understanding of we've learned a lot about from users and we might only choose to apply a couple of the tools in that instance so yeah I think that's a good way to think about it Thank you We have another comment Florian, can you recommend a tool for journey mapping I mean putting the sticky notes on the screen when you do it online with users So we use Miro Miro is probably the best that I've used I know there's a couple of people that like to use Fig Jam or there's a couple of others in the market but we definitely use Miro and in terms of tool is there any other part to that question because that's the tool we use but in terms of like the process it really depends on how you want to approach it like you can do it in a group setting or you can do it one-on-one and then amalgamate everything you learn from the one-on-one setting Sitara I know has done both recently like in the last kind of probably years I don't know if you want to add anything to that Sitara Thank you that's it that's what I meant Great, thank you Florian We have another comment from Olivia basically are the changes so are the changes you showed us at the end of your presentation already included in the last version of Moodle platform? Yes team the activity card redesign has been implemented already as the impact on the last version I don't remember exactly the version but I understand that Exactly Luke suggests also loose seed sparks as well Sitara explains that there are specific journey mapping tools out there but in Moodle we use mostly Miro There are some templates in Miro too so if you go in there and you're like oh I don't know how to set this up or you know I don't have a good base to start from if you go into Miro there is a section in the menu where you can look at templates if you type in journey map a whole bunch of templates will come up and there's community contributors that also contribute to the template library so there's lots there Okay and there is also a question from Eva I must say it's like a bomb how will artificial intelligence affect design thinking what's your opinion have you used basically artificial intelligency through the design thinking process what do you have you start? I mean on my opinion it is related to the fact that you know design thinking process as I said before it's not like a recipe it's not something very clear and linear process so this makes it more tricky and this makes the context something really really important when you're making decisions on which step like to go through which tool to use so so far I mean I have experience like anyone with the AI tools and I give a lot of context for it to give you back really meaningful feedback meaningful kind of response so it depends on what you're asking and depends on how to use it right now if you see for example in Miro you have tools such as like if you have a lot of signals you can divide them segments by feeling by the emotion that it's represented on that signal so I think it might help take at least the sooner role that I think it will take a role on how we analyze the information for example here in a recording of an interview and creating like a script with all the text and that is really useful how we kind of cluster or how we analyze or prepare that information so it helps a lot with documentation as well so yeah but more than helping to make decisions I don't think we're close to that but I would like to see also what's maybe the ones that they want to share something really good question I haven't I have to say I haven't spent a whole load of time thinking about it I would be very interested to see how AI would perform being a part of ideation I think that would be really interesting I don't know that I'm a very good prompt engineer to be able to get some meaningful outputs from that just yet but I think that could really add some really great prompts and thought starters if nothing else for like teams to be able to then take and iterate even again yeah that was something that popped to mind Sara I don't know if I have anything additional to share I think Fadi kind of touched on what I was thinking about is more in terms of how we actually analyze data I know there's even functionality for that in Miro themes across interviews or across sticky notes that can definitely help speed things up it's not quite there yet I don't think it can be a good start hopefully it improves over time I know there's there's some talk about synthetic users and kind of using AI to as a substitute for speaking to real people personally I don't think there's any substitute for speaking to real people and learning from their first-hand experience so I think that part is is still going to be really fundamental to to any kind of research or learning about our customers but definitely for speeding up kind of manual processes like maybe initial ideation or brain storming mind mapping data analysis those types of things were already already dipping our toes into some of that yep and I think what you said is in agreement with what people are saying in the chat as well Ruslan said that AI might affect in opposite direction when you may consider if AI may help you to solve the problem and it looks as that AI minimizes creativity but it helps design and build intelligent thinking and help solve problems so yeah it depends how you use it I guess like every tool Sony said a very nice thing thank you for the wonderful presentation and this is my first time attending but it certainly won't be the last we'll be happy to welcome you again Sony I don't know if we have anything else to comment if not do you have something I'd just like to share quickly Anna Satara will post a link in the chat in just a second but if any of you are interested in obviously helping us move through processes like what FETI shared but also from maybe a selfish standpoint being involved in seeing how we carry out some of these activities please feel free to sign up to the Moodle Experience Lab so that's the place where we will first go to first to reach out to Moodle users to get feedback on things that we're working on so if you're not already a part of that please feel free to sign up and yeah all the information that you might like to know will be on that page it's on Moodle.org and we can't wait to see you there yeah thank you for sharing it's so because I just added on the slide as well and thank you kind of at the end because it really helps us a lot when we let know the way we involve users in the process is just so important because it gives all the relevant information so I was just sharing the link there as well if you want to sign up it's great so far excellent well I'm really happy to see that people are quite enthusiastic in the chat and Robin said something really nice thank you all that was really interesting and I hope I can put it into practice with my team soon keep in mind that the recording of this session will be soon available in YouTube and of course in the academy so you can also you know come back and refresh your memory so I think we are wrapping up thank you so much for your kind words and for your attention Federica can you please move forward a little bit just before I will leave you and stop this wonderful session I would like to invite you to help us grow Moodle Academy by contributing to its development bear in mind that you can suggest topic ideas to be covered in future webinars and courses all we have to do is to join our get involved course from the Academy's front page and suggest your subjects that you would be interested or vote for the subjects that have been already suggested you can also contribute to webinars and courses and keep in mind that presenters will webinar presenter will get a badge from Moodle Academy as well as course builders and of course we would love to see you helping us making Academy more inclusive by translating in your own native languages the courses last one don't forget to help spread the word about Moodle Academy tell your friends and colleagues about Moodle Academy and the Moodle Educator Certificate tell them that they can come take our courses gain badges from Moodle Academy and of course if they are educators they can also consider taking the Moodle Educator Certification so that's pretty much all from us thank you for joining us today it was very informative and really interesting session thank you so much thank you and all of you for being here today with us