 It's Wednesday afternoon, and we know what time that is. It's Hawaii, the state of clean energy time. My name is Mitch Ewan. I'm your host today. I'm the co-chair of our sponsor Hawaii Energy Policy Forum. We have financial support for this show from the Hawaii Natural Energy Institute. I'm very pleased to welcome my guest and good friend, Toby Kincaid. These are becoming a regular guest on my show, which is great because I love having him. He's always got something good to say. And Toby is an inventor, an author, and now a drum roll, please. He is now a publisher. And today on our show, this is a great honor for us on our show, he's gonna introduce his new industry publication, and it's called Green Hydrogen Today. So welcome, Toby, and congratulations on this latest episode in your very interesting life. So first of all, tell us something about Green Hydrogen Today. How did you come up with the idea? Well, Aloha, Commander. Good to be with you. Well, I've always loved magazines. I grew up with them. My father had Life Magazine and National Geographic. And I remember just hours and hours with magazines. And I was always struck by how the pictures would capture me. And for years now, I've been lamenting this green hydrogen industry is coming into focus. When is someone gonna publish a magazine? A Renewable Hydrogen Industry Magazine. So since I hadn't seen one, I thought, okay, that's it. Time for me to do this. So for the last six, seven, eight months especially, I've been going to conferences all over the world, well, virtually, and Mission Hydrogen at a Stuttgart as a great representation of what's going on with the European Union. And they're emulating what Hawaii said, that you're gonna go green, you're gonna decarbonize by 2045. Well, now the European Union, why they don't think that the Green New Deal is a fantasy, they think it's a cornerstone. So they're whole, by 2050, they're gonna decarbonize their entire economy. So when I saw that, and then in the American space, the conferences put up in Berkeley by the Green Hydrogen Coalition, very well done, fantastic speakers. I was amazed at how comprehensive the industry has become. And then last month, just before the last time I saw you, I was at the Singapore Conference. This was the first annual Asia Pacific Summit for Hydrogen. And it was sponsored by the Sustainable Energy Council of the UK, and they did a marvelous job. I was floored, so I said, okay, that's it, that tears it. We've gotta do this magazine. So how did you come up with the name of Green Hydrogen today? Tell us. Well, that was kind of tough in the beginning because I've been contemplating this for a while and kind of building up steam in my boiler. And honestly, I didn't know what to call it. Should I call it PVH2? Photovoltaic Hydrogen, I don't know, that's not very, that's not what we call it, clean hydrogen. Yeah, okay. See, some people refer to it that way. Do we call it renewable hydrogen? Well, yes, some of the Americans often do that. But in these conferences, the European Union, the Asia Pacific players, they're calling it green hydrogen. So I said, okay, that's it, green hydrogen. That's what we call the answer to what we've been looking for. How to solve global problems with a local solution. And you know, to me, it's like a, if we're gonna change this world, it's like a pipeline. If you were gonna build a pipeline, and you started at one end and then you're gonna go a thousand miles, but take a while. So maybe we put another crew at the other end and then we can work towards the center. The ancients did that a lot. But they also figured out, hey, if you put a crew every 20 miles, then you could do the whole thousand miles in the time it takes to do 20. So what I'm seeing is the whole world is kind of putting together their little part. And suddenly it's just like a crystal crystallized. It suddenly, it's manifest. And what astounded me is just the sophistication. In the Singapore conference, for example, I was struck by the Australians. And I have a little section later in hydrogen hubs. I'll tell you about that. But they are serious. They never once mentioned the United States or even Hawaii, they don't need us. What they're gonna do is they're gonna become the largest exporter of green energy as quickly as they can because the writing's on the wall and their customers, Singapore, Korea, Japan, Indonesia, India, all of their customers for liquid natural gas are beginning to ask them, hey, we wanna buy hydrogen now. Especially the Koreans, the Japanese and the Singaporeans. They are serious. So I thought, okay, that's it. We've got to put one place together where everyone can come and meet the industry and find out what's going on. Well, surely it was hard getting the name green hydrogen today. Surely that was taken, wasn't it? Well, you know, the interesting point. Well, at first I registered green hydrogen today and renewable hydrogen today because I wasn't sure. And then when I figured on green hydrogen, oh, gee, I sure hope it's there. And lo and behold, it was. So I thought, okay, that's mana from the above. So I'll do it. And I started then thinking about the magazine and the sections and I thought, well, there's so much information in this industry and it's so diverse. We're gonna have to create sections for each sector of the industry, green hydrogen law, green hydrogen finance, green hydrogen jobs. Then we go to cement and steel and heavy industries, aluminum, ammonia. All of these sectors whom you would never really have green hydrogen and making steel in the same sentence. But all of a sudden, now the Europeans and the Asian Pacific players are saying, yeah, that's exactly what we're gonna do. In fact, Korea, Ambassador Kim who did the opening ceremony, I was struck by what he was talking about. He was saying, look, we know our children are not gonna survive this world if we don't decarbonize. So we go back to your great phase, the decarbonizer. That's what we need, the decarbonator, you know, the carbonizer. So the world is doing it. And when I saw this response and how sophisticated everyone has become, I thought, okay, that's it. We've got to go forward. Well, how about walking us through your draft and it's actually your first edition? They're gonna be releasing it any day now. So how about giving everybody the preview and walking us through it? Oh, lovely, wonderful. Sure, first slide please. Okay, so here's our cover. And the theme is the world is organizing around green hydrogen. And to me, that's what I was struck by is just that we have coalitions, we have groups of industries now getting together. In the European Union, they're a big, on the big industries, the heavy industries, the ports, the airports. So you have really this concerted effort all around the world. And so that's what gave rise to that theme. So what's it gonna be a global publication that's not meant strictly for the US? That's right. And in the beginning, I originally thought this would just be a print magazine. But as I kind of went forward, I began to realize through some good counsel that actually the digital magazine has all, has so many tools and utilities that we can use to reach a global audience. So we need to do both, but first digital. What kind of tools are we talking about? Why is digital so much more attractive than the presentation? Well, I have a little bit of publishing in a former life in my background. So I had to kind of reacquaint myself with the terms of publishing, the slug, the bleed, the galley, the gutter, the creep, the orphan, the widow. So all of these are all things I had to remember and it could become a familiar with again. And the tools now, in the old days, we actually had to mechanically lay it out and you would take 10 people to have all of the functions, the writers, the layout artists and so forth. But now we have this wonderful company called Adobe and they make Photoshop, an illustrator and premium pro for video editing. And they also make InDesign, which is like a super word processor on steroids. And it's so professional. There's so many tools. It's like, I felt like, if you give me a strativarius, I'm not gonna make beautiful music just because it's strativarius. I actually have to have some skill in playing. So for the five weeks it took to put this magazine together, 80% of it was, ah, how do I get text to wrap around an object? Ah, so it was pulling teeth for sure. But those tools are there. And now looking at distribution, now there's some tools I never would have imagined. For example, I can acquire a license, have this digital magazine converted into an Apple app. And as such, I could sell it on the app store only for a few bucks or something or on the Google Play Store on the Android format. So if I can get this license and I will, then one option would be that we just posted up on the marketplaces that already exist where hundreds of thousands of people in 160 countries go to buy magazines or other media. So that's very exciting. Worldwide distribution almost of the click of a button. Yes, and for me it was like, well, if I build a website and then I send out a lot of emails, you know, no, no, no, no, no. The world is much more sophisticated now. So I'm catching up. Okay, well walk us through the content. Oh yeah, let's keep going. Next slide please. Oh, thank you. Okay, so this is kind of the first table of contents that I've tried to give a feel of all the different sectors. The fueling stations, aviation, the world is organizing and a brief history of hydrogen. I've tried to put a lot of different little things together. I've embedded now links. So when you do get it, you can click on anything and go directly to the right story you want. Or in the stories, I've also embedded as many links as I can. So for example, we have a page that I didn't show here, but towards the end, which is the stock page and I've listed the 15 prominent stocks in the hydrogen world. And so now you can click on that stock and it'll take you to the company. So if you want more information, very convenient, you can just say, oh, I wanna find out about plug power or ITM or sun hydrogen or any number of them, the gen cell, there's a bunch. So click on them and then you'll be able to see it. So for me, that's what the point of this is. I'm trying to create humbly a global app to kind of unite the entire green hydrogen industry. And what I saw, for example, in the Singapore event with the Australians that mentioned, they're very keen on this, is now we're going to see marketplaces emerge where they're talking about off-take contracts, off-take agreements where producers of green hydrogen now enter in a worldwide marketplace. And I believe it'll be actually the hard currency of the 21st century. Forget paper money, this is a commodity. This is something that has real value. It's energy and it's clean and it's potent. So I see the world really now beginning to gel in what in effect is the industrial revolution of the 21st century where we actually do exactly what you've been talking about, we decarbonize. And in that evolution, in that industrial revolution, we get everything we want. We get high power, we get safety, we get universal availability because it's based on water and renewables. And when you use it, it's 100% non-toxic. Wow, that's a message. All right, next though, let's keep going. Sure, what's the next one? Green hydrogen grid. Okay, this is the point. And what's to me amazing about this revolution is that we're standing on the shoulders of giants. I think Newton said that if I see further than other men, it's because I stand on the shoulders of giants. And that's how I feel. I'm standing on your shoulders. I'm standing on Stan Osserman's shoulders. I'm standing on Think Tech Hawaii's shoulders. And we're gonna come together with this amazing notion. You'll see in the lower right, you see Jules Verne, who was a prolific science fiction writer. He predicted almost every major kind of technological advance that we kind of deal with in our world. And he's saying back in 1874, hey, water is the new coal. It's the next coal. He's saying that in this wonderful mysterious island, he has this wonderful dialogue. And he's saying that he feels manufacturers will be powered by water in the future. And then another person is like, oh, come on, what are you talking about? Well, and then he goes on to explain it. So, you know, back in his day, and it reminds me of when you were living in London, you'd say, oh, what do they call it? What do they call it, the smoker or smoky? Oh, they called it smoke. It's just smoke. That was a nickname for London at one point. We're going up to smoke. Oh my goodness. Well, that is true because back in the 1805 timeframe, that's when smog, you know, smoke and fog came out and acid rain because they were burning, you know, 14,000 little steam generators in the city limits, not to mention all the coal to heat the homes, the stately homes, you know, and all of that. So it's a smoker. But on this slide, what we're beginning to see is, you know, just a completely different attitude from anything else in how we can actually use renewables on site, create hydrogen fuel from water using an electrolyzer, store it safely. And then whenever you need it, you can burn it in turbines, you can use it in fuel cells. You can use it directly as a fuel for construction equipment and the farming equipment and of course trucks and semis and cars. So, but this gets to the whole theme of we're changing the world from CO2, from hydrogen stuck to a carbon, to hydrogen stuck to an oxygen. Door number two is better. Well, talk to us about aviation. Oh, let's go to that slide. That's amazing. This is totally- Now, Airbus has really done something spectacular. Because the European Union has said, we're gonna go for heavy industry, we're gonna re-look at all our ports and our airports, Airbus realized, well, hey, we could make green hydrogen on site, control our own fueling, control our own cost volatility because it's just a, there is no fuel cost, it's just the cost of hardware and that they can amortize. So what Airbus has decided is, and they announced to the world by 2035, they're gonna have these three aircraft, I'm only showing one, this is their blended body. This is for their long distance travel over 2,000 nautical miles. They've also designed a hydrogen powered turboprop for the small short hop carriers and then also a turbojet for kind of the mid distance. But this is their blended body concept and look at all the room inside, you can imagine it's, it's volumous. They have lots of room for fuel, cargo, passengers, all kinds of amenities. So this is what's coming and they've kind of thrown the gauntlet down to Boeing and everyone else who wants to talk about future aviation, it's definitely based on hydrogen because of the physics and now because of the economics, we can make the fuel. Green, clean and mean. Right on. The US Department of Energy held a workshop, gee, maybe just before Christmas on hydrogen at scale for aviation. It was, I think it went over three days and we had all the players there and man, they are working very hard behind the scenes now to evolve to hydrogen fueling for aircraft and for ground handling equipment. I mean, everything in the airport could be converted over to hydrogen and the thing that's driving it is climate change and decarbonizing, as we said, when we started out this interview decarbonizing the economy and they're really taking it seriously. So let's move on to the next slide which talks about hydrogen, green hydrogen hubs. Let's talk to us about that. Oh, wonderful. In the magazine, I did three hydrogen hubs, India which is a huge emerging market. Their goal is to convert 4% and that's ambitious within the next by 2030. And if they can achieve that, they will set the course because they're very savvy, they understand their own market and their own market demand is huge. India doesn't have a lot of petroleum so they import their fuel anyway. So they're beginning to realize like these other countries, hey, wait a second. We don't have to have a hole in the ground surrounded by men with guns. And if we don't have a hole in the ground that has any oil in it, what do we have to buy from somebody? Now the world economies are realizing that we can produce our own fuel, indigenously, right here with the renewable sources driving those electrolyzers making hydrogen fuel from water which you get mostly back when you use it. So it's a compatible biology, a compatible energy system that actually won't, well, won't hurt your grandkids, won't hurt you, won't hurt anybody. So they're embracing that. The other hydrogen hub, Chile, I have an article about Chile, you would never, who would have ever thought, Chile, you know, South America, that little stripple land on the Pacific, you know, they're gonna be a major green energy exporter. Oh, you betcha. They have renewable resources better than anyone in the world just about. In the North, they have incredible solar, incredibly high, we call capacities. Meaning that they have many hours per day that they get direct beaming sun. Then in the mountains towards the center, they have lots of hydro, lots of micro hydro. And then in the South, you know, they have incredible winds. I mean, it just doesn't stop blowing. So they feel that they've tracked out their renewables. They have 70 times more renewable potential than their entire grid, just waiting to tap into. And they wanna make money. They've been, you know, victimized by the fossil fuel industry through the 18th, 19th, the 20th centuries. They've had a tough time. They've been abused. But they see their freedom. They see their self-determination. And that's what everyone should understand. That's what, that's the point. Everyone everywhere, relatively all at once, can have everything they would ever want if you have the right kit. Gotta have the right gear. But that's only it. If you have the right gear, you think hard about it. Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt you. No, no, no, no, please. You've been very long. So let's look at this. Oh yes, let's go to the next one. Sure, of course. Okay, this is just a quick emphasis on transition. Now you have capitalists who are worried about stranding assets. I get that. And you also have people who are worried about human assets being stranded. So we wanna create a job creation and education training program for green hydrogen. And so I registered those as well so that we could develop them and have people begin to list where their jobs are and so forth. So one point is each of these sections has its own website potential, right, URL? That's right. I've registered the site and I'll be building like a maniac for the next, well, year. But we'll just keep doing it. We'll just go one by, I'm hoping to do one a week. We'll see if I can. But the most important thing isn't how fast we do it, it's how well we do it. So I believe the more narrow the subject, the more accurate and interesting and comprehensive the information. So for aviation, we couldn't put that all in one magazine. There's just so much going on with drones. Now Plug Power has these great little stacks. They're looking at drones using fuel cells. Wonderful stuff. So I thought, okay, we have to put a .com website there that we can then flesh out all of these great details. So people could go to the websites and drill down if they really wanna get to it. I've just had a question come in from the audience. Oh, how wonderful. Yeah, the question is from one of our viewers, if hydrogen is being made with energy from a non-green fuel, how can you call it green hydrogen? Well, it's not. Yeah, let's talk about that. Most hydrogen in the world, like 98% of it, 75 million tons, is called gray hydrogen. Gray hydrogen means you're making it from methane. Now the big problem with that is you're gonna produce 10 times more CO2 than amount of hydrogen. So one ton of hydrogen, you're ending up with 10 tons of CO2. No good. That's gray hydrogen. So blue hydrogen is the idea of doing that, but they say, okay, we'll take the CO2 and we'll do CCS, carbon capture and storage. So we'll grab the CO2 and we'll stick it somewhere. So how about that guys? And they're like, well, okay, maybe. Well, that's blue hydrogen, but green hydrogen is very specific. It is using renewable energy and water. So there's no carbon atom involved. There's no pollution involved. There's no toxicity, no volatile organic compounds, no partially consumed hydrocarbons, no noxial stocks, no particulates, no mercury poisoning, all of that goes away. Exactly. You know, when you talk about climate change as a driver of this, you're right on. You know, what I heard in these seminars, what I got from these conferences is that people are worried about their children. They see the writing on the wall. If we don't evolve out of this fossil fuel, which fine, it worked for three centuries from coal, oil, gas. And some people say, well, it gave us all this wealth. Yes, but there was a big price. And there's a lot of inequity when some people have resources that everybody needs, which is energy. What's wonderful here is that with renewables and water and using green hydrogen technology, you could be in Timbuktu and be entirely energy rich. What brings me to our next slide, which is green hydrogen earth. Ah, yes. Oh, now here's a great quote again from Jules Verne. And what he's talking about 150 years ago is that the future of mankind cannot be based on fossil fuels. There's inequity. There's military stress. There's economic abuse. It just doesn't lend itself to a free and prosperous world. And we can't do it. There's no way fossil fuels could bring the entire population of the world above poverty. It cannot be done that way. You couldn't possibly distribute it and the cost would be more than all of the world's economies. But if we go with green hydrogen, we actually can coordinate everything. So for the grid, instead of a battery car, when you plug it in, it pulls on the grid instantly and the grid operators may not be ready for that huge load. But with green hydrogen, we use it on the off peak hours. That's where most of the renewable is. And that balances the grid. Now, all of these players, they get that, they know it, and they're acting on it. So I am astounded by why they're following your advice. Commander, they're listening to you. So listening to me, that's been a very good little walkthrough. It's not all the content. There's much more content in this magazine than I've seen. But let's go to the next slide because we're already thinking about the next issue, aren't we? Yes, absolutely. And the next issue is going to be green hydrogen in Hawaii. And the reason is you guys started it all in the modern world, in the modern times. It was in the 70s when a congressman of yours said, you know, in Hawaii, we're blessed with all this natural energy. We are going to convert our economy to clean energy. That was 50 years ago. Everyone else kind of went, what? Are you kidding? Come on, yeah, yeah. Yeah, nice, I didn't know. And you guys have marched forward. You're the first in the world that I'm aware of that said, hey, by 2045, we're going to be clean. We're going to get this toxicity out. We're going to stop spending five billion a year on fossil fuels when we could spend four billion a year for the time that we're paying the leases. And much less, you'd have a thousand million, a billion dollars more money in your pocket if you go to a green hydrogen scenario. And we're making those cases. And in fact, the European Union and the Asia Pacific have found that low-hanging fruit and they're moving very quickly into market entry. So everything is moving. Here's our newest company in Hawaii. Next slide, please. Oh, yes, hydrogen Hawaii. I'm thrilled about this group. This is the future. And imagine the Pacific Rim, just your neighborhood. The Pacific Rim, how many islands do people live on in the Pacific Rim? Well, many. So what you see in this headquarters for hydrogen highway being built is that you're going to have all of the energy that you want and could use falling on you. Falls on your roof, it passes in the breeze, it's there. And what you're going to show the world is, hey, just simply reach out and grab some. And so I think it's beautiful. This is what their hydrogen station is going to look like. Pretty modern. Oh, it's going to be beautiful. Yeah. Well, let's go to the next slide. We only have about a couple of minutes left. So wind it up. This is nice. Stan Awesomeen wrote a beautiful piece here where you kind of, I asked him if he would kind of explain and open up a little bit about what we could do with green hydrogen in the next issue. Anywhere, a beautiful piece. And I paired it with this picture. And I wanted to put more writing around it and clutter it up. But I just saw the picture with his piece. And I went, oh, there it is. I don't need to fiddle with it. That's what I want everyone to see and to read and to know. That there is a future. It's a wonderful future. It's a future where all people can find dignity and self-determination. That's what it's all about. And that's what this matters. It's all about that last slide. It's all about green hydrogen today. So last slide, please. Well, thank you very much. Now, I would invite everyone listening and watching. Please send me an email, tobikincade at gmail.com. I'm still working on the website. I give you other emails, but just use that one for now. Send me just a ping or something. Yeah, I'd like to have a copy of the magazine and I'll send you a link and you can have a look at it. And I'd really appreciate any feedback, criticism, kudos, criticism being the best. That's how I learned. So that's how we get better. So I really would appreciate, and anyone who would like to submit an article, they can contact me as well and we'll get ready for the next issue. This is quarterly, so the next one comes out at the end of March. And I really hope everyone enjoys it. It's been an honor to work on it. Okay, so this is Hawaii, the state of clean energy. We've been talking to Tobikincade in his latest project, green hydrogen today. It's gonna be totally awesome. Moby, thank you so much for being on our show and keep in touch with us and give us updates as you go along. Maybe you can come in for little special additions. Why doesn't it fit you in? Be signing off until next Wednesday at Hawaii, the state of clean energy. And we're all in that canoe together. Don't forget that. Aloha.