 Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering Red Hat Summit 2017, brought to you by Red Hat. Welcome back to Boston, everybody, and welcome back to Red Hat Summit. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm here with my co-host, Stu Miniman. Stu, we were saying this is your 100th Red Hat Summit, so congratulations on reaching that milestone. Joe Dickman is here. He's the Senior Vice President of Vizuri. Cool name, love it, and Michael Quintero, or Quintero if you prefer, of Logisticare. He's an enterprise solutions architect, gentlemen. Welcome to theCUBE. Thank you. Thank you, pleasure to be here. Vizuri, love the name, it strikes a visualization, it's a, you know, trendy. Tell us about Vizuri and tell us about your relationship with Logisticare and we'll get into it. Vizuri is the private division of a company called AEM Corporation. We created the brand to serve the commercial market for research and development. We became partners with JBoss before Red Hat's acquisition, so we jumped into open source in like 2003. And since then, we built a business around open source technologies and market leading technologies that bring value. We found Logisticare because they solicited us for some work to help them transform their organization and it's worked out well. I mean, Michael and I have been working together for about 18 months. So tell us a little bit about Logisticare. So Logisticare is the world's largest provider of non-emergency medical transportation. So we service the health market around, people have benefits. They don't, the insurance companies don't provide transportation. And the members come to us and we broke the transportation for them. Been in business for quite some time, do about 70 million trips a year, a little bit more. And we have roughly 80% of that market and we just want to stay on top of it and it be recognized as the world leader in that capability with the best services and the care for our members. So JBoss, of course, was like the second pillar for Red Hat after Red Hat. Linux, Rob Bearden, who's the CEO at the time at Cube alum and friend. But so how did you sort of utilize that capability, that sort of whole middleware and how does that affect your digital transformation and where did you guys all fit together? So, well digital transformation is a business strategy, not a technology. So we looked at our need to be more flexible and dynamic and innovate. Our legacy are what we call classic internally. Software stack is limiting. It's not service oriented. It's not extensible. It's compiled, executable, distributed. It serviced the business very well. In fact, we're still using it today in some aspects. We haven't fully replaced it, but it's long in the tooth and it's difficult for us to reach that new business requirement and test and deliver at scale. So I joined the company to help modernize that architecture. Very quickly recognized that in order to get to scale and loosely coupling and massive customization that we, microservices, is a good solution for us. And when we surveyed the market for a partner that could help take us there, well software wise, Red Hat has the most complete stack. They offer everything we need to do and then they have the things we think we're going to do in the future. So we looked around for somebody who could help us get to the Red Hat and able to that with Docker and get to an auto scaling kind of solution. So we have infrastructure on demand and we found Missouri as a partner. They were able to help us enable the technology and teach us how to do things that we weren't presently doing because we didn't have any kind of scale solution in house. It was just put more web servers out there. We started small. It started with a business process management system. If you think about all the logistics that are necessary for coordinating medical transport, I'm a dialysis patient. I'm somebody that is homebound. I need to get to a physician appointment. We took that domain knowledge. That's part of one of the pillars of digital transformation. It's infrastructure, it's integration and it's knowledge management. We started with knowledge management. Think about all the complex business rules for managed care organizations, reimbursement, right? Which is what logistic care does. Quickly after we solved that problem, we looked at integration and we said, well now we have all these trading partners. So we got to logistic care into their next purchase which was Fuse. So now we had an API strategy for publicly linking them to other consumer providers because they are logistics organization for reimbursement. And as Michael said, we started building data centers or logistic care did. But guess what? Containers and OpenShift came in and we started provisioning our development environments to Amazon web services. And when they saw the cost savings, they abandoned building out on-prem data centers and went cloud native. So there's also a revenue driver component as well, right? It is. It is. It's an OPEX and the CAPEX cost savings. Let's unpack both of those. Where do you want to start? Cost of the telephone numbers. So we're mostly a call center based company in history. We have 20 something call centers around the country. We service most of the U.S. And we have a variety of contracts that with medical care providers like Etna and WellPoint and Blue Cross and those type of people. And then the managed care organizations come in. So we look to reduce our OPEX by diminishing the number and interfaces that we have with our call centers. People don't have to call into the call centers to do business with us. Something like one minute reduction in call time is about a six or $7 million a year benefit for us. And there's a lot of things that people can do for themselves. I mean, you can call in and cancel a trip that they have scheduled. We figured that about 30% of the cancellation rate, if we could get that done through a service interface through an IVR where they can come in and say I'm not going to go and cancel it. That's a five or $6 million savings for us right there. Just in 30%. I'm curious, was there any hesitancy inside to say, okay, going to kill data centers, going to go to public cloud? How did that transition go and anything? Kind of the goods and the bad and the ugly that you could share. Well, we're a healthcare company. HIPAA and high trust certified coming. And there's certain amount of fear around cloud migration. So we had to demonstrate the knowledge, skills and abilities around getting secure, scalable solutions out to the cloud. And this is our core application. If we don't do this well, we could become blockbuster and go away, right? So we don't want that. So we had Missouri come to the table and help us understand just how secure we can be where, how OpenShift is helping us make sure our information is never violated. There's great integrity in it. And then we did prototyping and we actually evaluated it. We have third parties that come in and take a look at our solutions. They can, can I penetrate that? Can I get into your information? So, and we also are subject to audit, not only by the federal government, but by all of our payer partners. So we have to be above the line in every criteria and we think that we are. The other thing that you mentioned was when we talk about OPEX, right? That's human capital. He talked about the minute per, per time on a call. We also reduce tribal knowledge. Think about all these new managed care organizations and healthcare. Is it the call center representative? Is it our responsibility to train them on this car and this company requires a car service? This one requires an ambulance. That knowledge, if we could eliminate that and put that in the middle tier, now what we do is we have given them a business scale. Now they have a business strategy for taking on new managed healthcare organizations. Do you have different compliance rules? Do you have different knowledge? It is no longer us having to go back out to those 20 call centers and retrain everybody because you never know where the consumers are coming from. So what they do is they answer the phone, they put their information into the system and the system makes the deterministic call as to what car service when and how it's reimbursed. You say you automated essentially that tribal knowledge. We did. We eliminated it. And we reduced it so it not only reduced the calls per time frame but it sped up our time of getting a call center agent from three weeks of training down to basically one. Yes, and we have the ability now to support all of our contracts from any call center. So if there's disaster recovery models or Phoenix for instance is one of our larger call centers and they get heavy downpours of rain there. There are times when people can't get to work or they have outages. We can't afford for that function to be offline. So those skills are very easily moved to another call center to support the members that we call in there. Just route the calls and there's no local knowledge about my contract in Arizona as a certain thing or in the Southwest. So it's very simple to support our population for many call center. That gives us the benefit of providing very high quality service. Because people when they call in they expect us to service them. Joe, I want to follow up. We were talking about kind of hesitancy. Healthcare tends to be a little bit conservative. I hear things like microservices and containers. These are still relatively new things. Is OpenShift, I'm sorry, is OpenShift the solution that allows you to deliver that with confidence to your customer? OpenShift. OpenShift, yeah, sorry about that. No worries. I'm so thankful. I'm going to remove my mouth. OpenShift does. What happens is the Docker container format enables us to pre-configure those servers and those workloads and we talked about microservices. We wanted to reduce the business decisions or the integrations into the smallest component. What we also wanted to do is to provide some taxonomy with them. These are for billing. These are for scheduling. These are for a different aspect of the business. By that we can change and we can change often. How long did it take before if we wanted to make a change to some of the infrastructure? So, weeks, months? Well, even longer. I mean, infrastructure is hard to acquire and when you talk about the CapEx expense, it's very easy. I mean, there's a refresh cycle for equipment that you get so even when you have it, you have to pay attention to maintenance and keeping that thing going forward. As you add scale to your business, you got to go acquire more storage and it's not a dynamic thing. You have to plan. The planning cycle is very difficult. We moved to the cloud. Now we have infrastructure on demand. There's a myriad of choices of platforms and solutions that we can apply to our business model. Things that we hadn't even thought of before. We're actually looking now at potentially moving our call centers away from our in-house standard and moving to an Amazon-provided call center solution because it can scale and we can consolidate and we provide service from anywhere in the world. That's a big benefit to us. So, call center as a service essentially is something you're evaluating. Think about how big they are. 80 million rides, right? What they didn't want to do is be disintermediated by the newcomers, right? The Ubers, the Lyfts, they had a large footprint so he used the word blockbuster before and that's what they use a lot internally. There's one left in Alaska I heard. Who remembers blockbuster and then they remember how blockbuster was no longer in business. So what they wanted to do is to ensure that they actually transform not only the software engineering discipline but their firm beliefs. So everybody from business analysis through implementation has this new agile approach and one of the features that we developed, we used to send people home after four hours of dialysis in taxi cabs. So an executive or a team at Logisticare said, you know what, we need dependency. We need certified drivers. They actually enter into a business relationship with Lyft and you want to talk about an agile enterprise. We developed a custom interface into Lyft with a scheduling service that never existed within five weeks. We would never have been able to do that and we moved our first ride after five weeks and since then we're currently up to about five or 6,000 but it's going to scale to thousands and the goal is to again, as Michael said, let people interface with Logisticare by their device of choice. If we don't have to have people call in to cancel rides or call in to schedule, then the business scales and it scales without human capital. And the enablers there were obviously, we always talk about a people process and technologies and the technology behind that was what you're living, this API economy that everybody talks about. We are, that is exactly what we did. And then you've got underneath that open shift, what else is sort of there that you're leverage? BPMS, BRMS, so business process management system, business rules management system, JBoss Fuse for an integration strategy and camel routes and then open shift and then we do Ansible for doing server provisioning. And I have to ask you about the security question again that Stu was poking up before. We've heard from a lot of practitioners that the security in the cloud is fine, it's great actually. The challenge is it doesn't necessarily exactly map the edicts of our organization. So is that, did you find that and did you have to maybe change the way in which you plugged into AWS or was it just sort of out of the box for you? So you have to understand the shared responsibility model when you move to the cloud, right? I mean, they're very good at the security in the cloud or of the cloud and you have to be good at the security in the cloud. You can choose bad technology at Amazon and be insecure. But they have a published HIPAA standard that if you use these technologies then you can be HIPAA certified. We applied our high trust certification standards to our choices. We're making very solid. And this isn't willing to, I mean, I've been with HIPAA solution for 20 years. So it's not like I don't know what is required and what the auditors are going to ask us. So, but I do want to address one point that we can't go past is that when we, our customers are getting better service from all this we're doing. I agree. When somebody calls us and says I'm ready to go home from the doctor and they didn't know what time they were going to go home and they scheduled their ride to the doctor, we can get somebody there in 10 minutes now to come and get them and take them home. That's a great satisfied. Rather than having to wait 90 minutes for us to find somebody that can go pick them up, that world has changed, right? And that's a great customer's satisfied and that's why they're going to love continuing to do this. Great business outcome from something that you probably couldn't have done, you know, five years ago, even maybe two years ago. They're a social caring organization. One of the largest rides that they do is for kidney dialysis. And those people, I mean, I've never had it, but somebody sitting there in four hours of dialysis, the last thing you want to do is wait 90 minutes for a cab. You want to go home. You also want to have an authoritative source of the drivers, credential drivers. And that's something that we're working on so that not only do these older generation, right? And think about the baby boomers, which I'm actually part of. You know, the age population is growing. So the need for these types of services is growing too. And we become accustomed and we get set in our ways. So, and people might be fearful. Any taxi showing up versus now, a lift shows up. You know who the driver is. You see the car, you see that. There's a high degree of confidence that logistic care has the best interests of their constituents. So they've managed that type of business. So it's not just technology. It really is a caring and methodical organization. But we have the ability to follow patterns that are already established. We look at how Netflix handles their just widely distributed kinds of interface devices. What are, you know, how do they figure out what kind of data stream to send back to what he's got in his hand versus what I have. We're following the same kind of model. And we're using the technology platform to our best advantage to make sure that we're talking to someone who's got a flip phone differently than we are talking to somebody who's got an SA plus, right? Because the payload can't be the same, but the backend services don't need to know that. We've built a solution here that can examine the request and return the right data stream. So where's my ride? Might be just around the corner, or it might be a map with a breadcrumb trail and a picture of the driver and all of that, like you get with a lifter and Uber. So, you know, we're building it. Great case study, gentlemen. Thanks very much for coming on theCUBE and sharing. Well, thank you very much for having me. You're welcome. We enjoyed the time. All right, keep it right there. Everybody, we'll be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE, we're live from Red Hat Summit in Boston. Right back.