 My name is Bruce Herbert and it's my pleasure to talk to you the CNI community today about supporting university resilience during the pandemic through Vivo the open source research information management system. Today we're going to hear from my colleagues demeris Murray was the director of faculty data systems and analysis at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina. Robert Miller, who is the chief executive officer of lyricists a nonprofit organization serving universities and other cultural institutions, and myself, and I am director of scholar communications at Texas A&M here in college station Texas. Research information management systems collect and store structured data about faculty research scholarly activities and other information about their careers at universities. They're distinguished by several particular characteristics one is the authority of the data set that they represent on faculty profiles. They collect often collect metrics, such as citations or alt metrics about the faculty research products and publications, and they often have common standards ontologies or data models that define the data that are structured within RIM systems. Vivo is an open source community member supported RIM system that is is supported by lyricists and has several specific core values. One is that it's an open source solution so that it can be customized and given freely away that it's supported by an open community of members and enthusiasts who support the development and use of Vivo around the world. And that the data that is supported in Vivo and collected and organized in Vivo is then shared around the world supporting the knowledge graph of academic research. And so it is a really important thing. Vivo is implemented by institutions and academic organizations around the world in about 60 different, 64 different instances now in 20 different countries, and this forms the overall Vivo community. First, we're going to hear from Damaris Murray, who is director of faculty data systems and analysis on her system scholars at Duke. Damaris. Hi everyone, I'm glad to talk to you today about scholars at Duke. We've had it at Duke for about nine years now and it was really exciting to see how scholars at Duke was able to play a part throughout the institution, particularly throughout the pandemic. So I'll share a little bit about what scholars at Duke is and then I'll talk about specifically how it's come in handy the past year and a half or so. So scholars at Duke is Duke's implementation of Vivo. We use it not only as a research information system but also as an expert finding tool, and it hosts a lot of different visualizations and search functionality that make it useful for several different functions across the university. Scholars at Duke, it contains not only information about Duke faculty but also other community members that are engaged in research and teaching. Next slide. So scholars is very unique in that it houses information about Duke faculty in one place. Before scholars at Duke we didn't have a system where you could similar to a directory you could search throughout the university for what sorts of research and activities were going on and really get a sense of the interdisciplinary work that is happening at Duke. So that's what scholars at Duke. It does. It pulls from many trusted sources around the university and represents scholarship in a consistent way, regardless of whether you're affiliated with a certain school or institute or center. Next slide. So whether you're looking for information about a specific topic or an individual in the Duke community. So scholars has really been a trusted source and a place to find up to date content. As it pulls from systems nightly so we know it's always very up to date and whether you're just trying to manage your scholarly reputation or identify potential collaborators. Scholars at Duke has been the place where people know to go to kind of start that kind of work. Next slide. So our office is in the office of the provost under finance and administration which is a little bit different from other schools that have implemented Vivo. Although we do have very strong ties not only with the library but also research and administration Duke arts and central it. And what we've been able to do is kind of bridge the gap between several, several groups that don't necessarily work together but have data about faculty. This is an example of our FAQ page where we really use scholars at Duke as a place where faculty and others can come and start to ask questions. As they look through profiles they start to ask deeper questions about where is this data coming from, how is it being collected how can I change it. Next slide. So really scholars at Duke has played a large role in kind of creating this grassroots data governance movement at Duke, where we try to involve a lot of people in managing profiles, and that means that there are a lot of people that get to be in these conversations around data governance, who needs to be trained in certain different systems who needs access to the data, you know how to keep data up to date and, and you know ensure that it's quality information we've been really excited to see stars at Duke and through vivo kind of move beyond just you know research and or just profiles and really having these larger conversations about how things get changed and how data gets maintained. Next slide. So just a brief overview of the sorts of information we have a lot of data that we have put into vivo. So we have two universities actually Duke Kunshan University and Duke University that we house and scholars at Duke. And there are tons of schools departments and centers. And like I mentioned, I'm not only faculty but also students and staff that we see having profiles there too. And we've used a lot of the vivo out of the box ontologies to kind of map all of this information but we've also done a lot of custom work. So that, you know, we can make sure we're capturing people's scholarship enough in a much more complete way. Next slide. So now that you've seen a little bit about what scholars at Duke is and what sorts of information are in there I wanted to talk about three areas in which I feel that scholars at Duke has really supported Duke's resiliency throughout the pandemic. I want to talk about the challenges of remote work, some of the financial issues that have come up, and then even conversations around diversity, equity and inclusion, and how a system like this has really, has really helped. Next slide. So first I want to just talk about the challenges of remote work which we're all familiar with. I think something that we came up across a lot is that as people were moving to remote work, you know, the ways in which they found information or found the information they needed to do their jobs, how to change. Not everybody is tech savvy. A lot of people were used to just having conversations or maybe they had files on their desk that they couldn't access anymore. So we found that scholars at Duke was a really good place for people to start to do their work in a different type of way, whether that was to identify groups of people that they needed to contact. There were new research policies that were put in place around Duke, specifically for, you know, who needed to be in the lab at certain times, or, you know, what sorts of research applied to different sorts of policies. And we have found that through Vivo and through putting that information into things like Tableau, people were able to do that work and identify those subgroups of researchers. So by getting a scholar as a Duke profile that automatically meant that you would be searchable in these new Tableau reports that we set up pretty quickly. We could see, you know, who was doing COVID research. People already knew, you know, that they should go and start tagging themselves with, you know, sort of COVID related terms on their profile. So it was pretty smooth, a smooth transition of getting people to use scholars for these new kind of COVID related efforts and tasks that they had. We also found that in terms of communication, people wanted more communication right as they weren't seeing each other every day. And even though activities in the university had slowed down, the challenge was, well, how do we identify what is going on, you know, with events being canceled and everything. So what I'm showing here is actually a Tableau report coming from scholars at Duke that showed all of the news articles and, you know, we allowed people to show what teaching activities teaching innovations that were happening. And that helped power the communications teams around campus to continue to kind of do their daily communications and recognition efforts, even though they weren't actually too many events going on. Next slide. So this is an example of a CV that we put together. Basically just you point and click and this CV is generated in a Word document based off of the information in your scholars at Duke profile. And you'll see it's like very well formatted. This is actually the exact format that is required by Duke School of Medicine for review and promotion and tenure. So even in things like this just simple administrative tasks, we recognize that faculty in particular have so much on their plate during the pandemic and just being able to have these small ways that we were showing that we knew they were doing extra work we wanted to take something off of their plate. We really appreciated that, you know, we know we have all of these data and systems why are we making them enter it again so just small little tasks that we knew could be better could be automated, kind of rolling out tools like that really help support people that we knew were already extremely busy. So I just wanted to talk a little bit about financial challenges throughout the pandemic. There were a lot of resignations reorganizations happening, cost cutting particularly within it groups. We saw a lot of that at Duke, where it groups were shrunk or kind of merged together. And we have always used scholars at Duke to help power local websites. So for example is here where you're where you'll see we make the data available through Drupal through embed code and JSON feeds different ways that it's very easy to reuse this information on local websites. So that really helped. And I think scholars at Duke, we knew vivo and scholars, we're going to last through the pandemic because it was driving and powering really so many of these websites that we're losing staff to support them. So even as redesigns were happening. We just saw more and more websites starting to move towards scholars data. One example of something that happened is we had two centers that merged together. And they needed a new website and it was really, it literally took us maybe five minutes to through the ontology merge those two organizations together and scholars at Duke. And then, you know, we already had these feeds in place they were able to, you know, set up a new website for those two merged groups within a day or so so it was, it was really good to see that efficiency play out. Next slide. And then the last challenge I want to talk about was really with diversity equity and inclusion, where we saw departments and the institution at large, really wanting to make sure they were aware of the types of people that we had the amounts of effort that different groups or individuals were responsible for maybe not getting the recognition for that. Making sure people could represent themselves the way they wanted to in terms of their very interest in terms of their preferred names, their pronouns, all of those things became much more came to the forefront during the pandemic. And I think something like scholars at Duke where people had questions like, how do I update my name and every system at Duke I want to be recognized this way or, you know, now systems are kind of allowing pronouns to be to be added like what are the security implications of things like that. These are all questions that have come up recently. And really those questions often happen and are answered around something like a scholars at Duke profile because that's where people think to go to first. So we've really had a role and being able to, I guess guide people to the right, the right resources around some of the ways in which they want to represent who they are, and what they do and what they personally bring to the university. So with that I'll just say that the future of stars at Duke we see it as very bright. We're really excited about the way it has shown through through a very difficult couple of years in the university setting. We just want to do more to make it, you know, obviously more mobile friendly more accessible and make sure that even more people are aware of what it can do and how it can help them personally and also in their in their departments and different tasks. Thank you. Thank you very much, DeMaris. Now we'll turn to scholars at Texas A&M and talk about how scholars had an important role in supporting faculty during the pandemic to but in a very different way than what DeMaris talked about. Scholars at Texas A&M, as opposed to the way that it's done at Duke is organized and built in the libraries here at Texas A&M. We have four major use cases that we're trying to support through the use of our RIM system. The first is improving faculty digital identity and reputation by making their work more discoverable. That collaborations are supported research collaborations are supported through the ability for researchers to discover other expertise, especially in fields they're not that familiar with. Much like Duke does, Texas A&M also uses our scholars data across campus for other systems. And then finally we are using our scholars at Texas A&M system to support an emerging research intelligence group on campus. That's a collaboration between the library and the vice president of research. Vivo at Texas A&M was started, we started probably 2016, 2017 and one of the first important feedbacks that we got was actually building a very early version of our scholars at Texas A&M system and showing the system to a focus group in the college of medicine. We had several people in the room and some of the people were extremely happy because they were very strong researchers and we were representing research very well and so they saw themselves as being well represented and they just were quite satisfied. We had that one guy in the back and he was angry and what he contributed to the university was he was a lecturer, he was an instructor and so his major contribution was teaching. And when we showed him his profile, of course, it didn't have a lot of research. And he thought it was just one more tool that A&M was going to use to show that he was not doing a good job. Well, what we've what we recognize very early on from that is that the openness of Vivo the ability to customize our rim because it's an open source solution was really important because we had a diverse set of faculty doing diverse things at Texas A&M. It's such a large university. It serves so many different needs that faculty have many different roles and we needed to represent those different roles. And so what the very first thing we did was we started harvesting data out of our institutional repository, which is also served by another open source software package called DeSpace, very common across the world. Another Lyris's product, in fact, and we started harvesting theses and dissertations that were chaired by faculty and so you can see my own profile system and where we are representing the PhD's and dissertations, the theses that I have chaired through my career as a Geoscience faculty member. And in this way, we're helping to represent not only my research, but my educational activities and that and that became very, very popular. And it was not an easy thing to do, mostly because DeSpace really had a folk on it folksonomy type of of metadata system because graduate students were were uploading and entering the metadata about their thesis and dissertation into DeSpace all by themselves. And so, when we first started exploring this, my name was represented eight different ways in DeSpace. And so just having that challenge of identifying all of my theses and dissertations was was difficult and so we had to, we had to quite work on this for a fair bit of time, but we got we solved it and it proved to be quite popular among faculty members. So we we've taken that lesson, and especially during the pandemic we started building other collections in our DeSpace repository. So we have, we of course have a collection around faculty research where faculty are curating and sharing with the world, preprints and research reports and other things related to their research. But we also developed a new collection around teaching materials so that faculty could represent their excellence in the classroom, their role as a teacher scholar, or represent the scholarship of teaching and learning that they may be engaged in. And then finally, finally, most recently, am has been really focused on enhancing student success of all our students, and a big part of that strategy in our student success initiative has been the greater use of open educational resource materials. And so we built a collection to curate TAMU authored OERs that are that were completed by Texas A&M faculty. And so we have that in our open OACES collection. And what we're doing is we're harvesting the metadata out of all of these collections and representing those works as part of the faculty profile. And so we can see faculty as truly the multi-dimensional professionals that they are, serving many different needs that would help support the overall land grant mission of Texas A&M. And so we're harvesting the metadata out of this space. We're passing that through our symplectic elements. Harvester system that we use, that comes from digital science. All of that data goes into a SQL database that is then crosswalked into the the scholars at Texas A&M system. Faculty of course have always control over their profile so they can claim or reject any kind of data that we find for them. Because of course we are representing their reputation and they have to have control over that message. And so what this does then is we're starting to harvest all these other publications. Many of them are non-pure reviewed or the gray literature, the reports or instructional sheets or teaching materials. It's an amazing collection of publications that faculty have found useful to share with the world and pass through and they all go into the publications section of our scholars at Texas A&M profile system. So these are some of the things that I've been sharing through our institutional or publishing through our institutional repository or d-space repository. Many of them are presentations about Vivo because I also serve as chair of the Vivo leadership group. In the pandemic though, what we found was as faculty transitioned to remote work, many of them came to my group and asked for help in publishing in new ways and often publishing things very rapidly. They wanted to publish things in new ways. So what we did is we used our d-space repository as a publishing platform. One of the examples of the kinds of things that were published was a survey that engineering faculty asked of their own students as the engineering faculty transitioned their classes from face-to-face classes to online learning. So they did a very large survey of very large numbers of students and really highlighted with this survey the large number of problems that students were facing, particularly students that were coming from lower socio-economic status where they were challenged by internet connectivity or spaces at home that they could work on. Leading to great challenges in learning. And this survey, which they wanted to get out really, really fast, has really generated an amazing amount of interest for being unpublished and unpure reviewed. So if you can see here we include in our d-space repository many kinds of metrics that faculty can use to track the usage, engagement and citation of their work. We also provide citations and so on. And this has really been quite effective, especially during the pandemic where faculty are trying to reach new communities in new ways. This work then, of course, I got listed as a co-author because they were actually because they were nice, but because I helped them in several ways and it gets represented on my profile as another type of work that we do. And so all the authors had it represented on your page. And so this became really, really important in the community and we saw many, many faculty across all disciplines take advantage of it. Perhaps the faculty member that was really successful, really changed her career was a great example, was a colleague of mine in the Department of Communications. Heidi Campbell is a distinguished professor who studies churches and religious communities. And she came to me right at the beginning of the pandemic. So it was kind of March of 2020 and said she had this idea of writing an edited volume where pastors and ministers and other religious figures and practitioners would write short vignettes about how their church or their religious community was being, was being affected by and how they were responding to the pandemic. And she wanted to publish it quickly. She is a humanities faculty member and she's used to university presses being quite slow in producing published works. And so I talked to her about the use of d-space as a publishing platform, how it would get represented in her scholars profile, and would help aid the discoverability, curation and preservation of her work. And so she pursued it. And it was wildly successful. In fact, she went off and produced 23 other works in the same way and it's told me she's unlikely to ever go back to publishing in a normal manner anymore. This work has went kind of viral on Twitter, has been picked up by newspapers around the world, has generated citations. It is really taken off because it was something where we could publish it quickly, get it out there, it's discoverable because it's a repository, and she was able to share it. So this idea of building an interoperable system between this repository and our scholars at Texas A&M RIM system has proven really powerful for faculty to do new things under extremely trying conditions. And so here she's announcing on Twitter her fifth ebook that she's published. And this was within one year. So it was really quite productive. It was a productive time for her, a time when she actually thought, how am I going to do anything has turned into one of the most productive and rewarding times of her life. I like to exaggerate a little bit, but this of course garnered her books have garnered great attention around the world among religious communities. And in fact, it actually garnered her a interview with the Vatican where they were asking her for advice on how the Catholic Church should respond to the pandemic. So this has been really wonderful. And it was building the system that allowed faculty to work in new ways under trying times has really shown shown it's worth. So it was really pretty neat. So now I'm going to turn it over to Robert Miller, who is the chief executive officer of lyricists is going to talk about Vivo and a little bit more about lyricists. Thanks, Bruce. Good day everybody. Damaris thanks for the show and tell of what's happening at Duke and Bruce the work that stretches from Texas to the Vatican who would imagine that. Yes, there'll be a direct plane flight now from the Vatican back to Texas. Yeah, I'm not sure about that. Just like to get to Houston. Hey, Vivo is a very important part of lyricists and I thought what I would try to do in a few minutes is talk a little bit about the community supported software. How it fits within lyricists and how lyricist tries to add value on a program which you can, I hope that the observers of this presentation can see really has a tremendous impact both inside and outside institution. I want to talk a little bit about how we add value to support as an organizational home what that means. In the short version is it's really where the volunteerism that you're hearing from Damaris and the internal people that use the tool in the system and Bruce meet really a full time support staff to help make sure that the trains run on time that the software is updated and lyricists by design tries to outlast the volunteerism where people come enter contribute and then move on in their careers with a program like like Vivo. I'll also share some of the topics that we engage in, you know, outside of Vivo for people that don't know lyricist we trace our roots back to 1936 and 1937 out of the Great Depression. And the brains got together and said, novel idea what if we shared resources how good could we be if we work together and I think you've heard that theme through Damaris and Bruce and the programs they represent. In addition to Vivo we are the organizational home for D space a space C space fedora orchid, even the palace project. It's a reading and content creation solution for public libraries and academic institutions. And the org home concept migrates and stretches depending what a different community requires. We brought Dura space into lyricists in 2019, which we are honored and to be able to work with more are ones and tier 23 and four, an exciting group of non US institutions on programs such as Vivo. So Vivo coming over from the Dura space where fedora and, and D space. This past year we acquired a for profit content services and software company called Bibliolabs. That also gives an organization and a project like Vivo tools and resources that they might not normally bump into every day. Our channels that we go after it with our five divisions. As Bruce talked about leads with academic that's mostly what people associate us with the public libraries, museums, archives, and increasingly the scientific community really has benefited from what lyricists has expanded portfolio can bring to help the mission driven work that we work on the mission driven work of our partners. We have a staff of about 80 we expect to be at about 100 the next couple years or on a growth curve. We have over 1800 institutions that we work with we expect will be over 2500 the next couple of years, we do not depend on grants, but we use grants much like for profit world, a venture capital or raising money in the stock market might allow an institution to go forward. So this model that we have we think really helps an organization like Vivo seek out sources of capital funding and resources as we go forward. Lastly, we've invested over $3 million back into programs that will impact and touch programs like Vivo. These have been in the form of R&D, we call it business renewal or direct grants from programs that an institution wants to take on and explore. Our mission is pretty straightforward. We want to catalyze and enable equitable access to the world's knowledge and cultural heritage. Next slide if you would. Bruce I'm not sure you're a swimmer and I don't know if you are but as part of my triathlon training I swim periodically. So swim lanes are pretty normal for me to go ahead and generate. So working with the lyricist board, working with key academic institutions and channel members. These are the five areas that we focus on. And I think based on the remarks you've heard that Bruce made and demerits made you'll see that Vivo fits quite comfortably in the areas that we're looking at trying to help take our expertise and apply it generously, liberously in a nonprofit fashion with the programs like Vivo. Next slide please. One of the things I think that Vivo has that, to me, signify that it's a program on the move, and it's a move upward. In addition to what Bruce and demerits have talked about. I think what I want to point out as CEO is, Vivo has the support of the community. It has clarivate as a partner, which I think is a novel concept of looking to for profit and nonprofit that intersection and partnerships. And you'll see some of the other names listed below in terms of some of the tombstones, which I think also give credit credence and credibility to a program like Vivo. Are you on your own or who you're working with. Where do you live. Who do you hang out with. And I think as you look at the Vivo community where we hang out. It's pretty cool. Next slide please. I love seeing these names of institutions that I think represent more than just they're involved. I think this is a seed strength it's a capital strength it's an asset strength that a program like Vivo has. When it has the horsepower of organizations like this who can not only sell to set set direction, but can add value on a long term, and be there day in and day out. What about the next tier of users come in and say well geez if Dukes involved and Texas is involved and Browns there. Maybe this is a program that's going to last more than one semester. And I think that's something that's not initially thought the investment that teams and institutions like Duke and Texas put into the into the mix. Next slide if you will. Governance. I know we just go crazy and academia may want to make sure we have all the governance thought out, but it's important and it must be part of the conversation. The fact that Vivo has a user group. I love that visa, Vivo has an interest group which is a little more casual relationship, but at the end of the day, there's a leadership group that steers and has a calm hand, and a nimble hand on a tiller that's constantly being assaulted by the forces inside and outside what every program faces, and a committers group. And this is a struggle I think that all the community supportive programs go with. Should we hire and have a dedicated set of people who can finish the software, or do we depend on the community. The answer is yes, but I think each institution and each program has to turn the dial for what and where they have strengths. I think that's something that Vivo has navigated successfully, and it really has as a forward looking strategy. Next slide. So I think that the community supportive programs take a look at where they coming from. Where are they and what's their plan for the future. Thanks Bruce for putting up there that they partner with Larissa's I actually think that's a strategic advantage, much like the airlines you had other choices. What the community looks to is, we can bring with unfettered access with complete transparency along with context. Can we give advice, can we be that daily support that helps those ideas and visions that come from the community to be realized, I think that's a big difference. Every organization, much like the nation, when you change a president where you change that the political structure has to navigate this and Vivo has done this successfully. So I would shout out and say if you're worried about Vivo, I'm not because they know how to manage change. They know how to engage change to move forward. And of course, we're all getting better in the communities of how do we not delay and like 234 even five years for release. We're competing in a community of people with Facebook's and Amazon's and apples, where releases come out weekly daily monthly and so we have to get better in that area and I think be those make great progress there. I just had to smile and you said pandemic has caused stress. Oh my God absolutely and I'm so glad that Vivo has been able to alleviate some of that as we go forward. Next slide if you would please. Where are we today. These things that touch here to see virtual, but I think Vivo navigated the fact and use virtual as a strength going forward. It has not been a liability. So in this case from a DEI a standpoint, I think we've learned things with Vivo that have made Vivo more successful. You'll see the international who's showing up where people are showing up in the conversations that are happening and coming from a German heritage and unable to speak Spanish I was glad to see at least one of the two languages I have represented nicely there. Next, if you will. Where are we going. We know that from a UI standpoint we can't just live off of library driven Boolean code type methods of communication. We have to make it flexible and easy and we have to demand better of ourselves. Vivo sees this and Vivo is incorporating that in the releases they have. Vivo also as understands that perhaps we're the seed groups those initial early adopters created something that was phenomenal, but a tad complex now has something it's effortless to go ahead and use. I think it's a star that Bruce has brought from a leadership standpoint, and colleagues like the merits are endorsing. I think you'll see some really incredible things coming in the future. Next slide. Well at the end of the day sustainability tends to be a popular topic. And we always want to make sure how do we know how to pay for it as we go forward. I break things up into stages at the early stage of the Vivo was at stage zero which I would say is not meaning there's no value. It's a theme and a number of people's eyes and Bruce I forgot the story you sell said about how you put it together originally. And typically it's grants or funders founders that put that initial seed capital together and it's only it's intellectual capital in addition to cash. Stage one kind of the birth stage, we tend to default I found this working very closely with their space the platinum gold silver medal seems to get us to a certain part in the conversation. Right now is somewhere between stage one stage two and stage three and I think that's healthy and you should know this if you're even considering flirting with the idea of working with Vivo. The teenage stage tier two membership I think reflects a democratization of a program where it goes from really being run by a platinum member a gold member and a silver member and with generosity. These institutions give what they think is fair. Ideally we want to work to something where there's value that's clearly measured value that can be assessed and value that can be shown about how dollars are spent. So we spent a lot of time with Vivo thinking about that stage one two and three as we go forward. Next slide if you will. I want to wrap up Bruce and de Maris and hopefully compliment the great start you gave to these presentations and talk about things that go bump in the night. I think we're all faced with radical transformation. I think for us to be successful Vivo and the projects that come across our desk that we invest in, we support or we're considering having a part of our portfolio to serve the patrons in the mission we have better. We need to be thinking about network effects, much like the telephone and Facebook, where service improves as more people use it service improves as more people use it. Can we create a virtuous circle where good follows good. Bruce, I like the email you sent me I'm going to send you something to read about that. You'd like something I say you expand that include de Maris de Maris see something else she creates something for us out of her portfolio. That's the virtuous circles like God I got to join Bruce de Maris and Robert because they have something going here. That's how the success of Vivo is going to go for it's not a million dollar campaign to try and buy our way into people's exposure. When do we build by our partner, and I think Vivo looks at this candidly and bluntly, what do we want to own that's critical what I want to share that we need to. And how can we partner to go forward so clarify I think is a key thing to point out in that discussion. The realities are, I think coming from a for profit nonprofit and mission driven background currently, the cost of developing a channel can be five to 10 times, at least higher than the cost just to write code. One of the most important information I'm seeing in the community programs is we've been so focused on writing the code. We don't recognize the channel that's there. Fortunately, we all are universities were connected with various organizations set channel development we have. So one of the things that Vivo is working on is how to engage and leverage that channel effortlessly seamlessly and frictionlessly as we go forward. We have opportunities at lyricists were looking a lot more about community engagement, but I thought we had that with a program like Vivo, and how do we really leverage community and great engagement. How do we take the content and Bruce that case study you talked about the Vatican, you really didn't care about the technology, they saw the story. It's the content being created, and whether a woman decides a colleague decides she's going to go back to an old or a new process is incidental. It's the content creation that we don't have to pay for but it transforms those that read and use it is critical. As I wrap up it fear it appears to us that we have tools we can use it takes a village. If you want to skim that read that. It's something that we've used it helped lyricists work with Vivo. We did a 10 point assessment Bruce and took a look at Vivo, and out of the 10 recommended things that might or might not help a program I think we were at six. And Bruce I think we go oh my god we only got a six out of 10 failing, you said, holy mackerel we have six. Let the next four we want to go after. So we have tools now we can talk with each other. Marissa know you're a part of this also. So lastly and I think I'm going to say this on behalf of my two colleagues here. Let's be audacious to encourage a belief that we want to create a monopoly, we want to create a nonprofit profit monopoly with software that is so good. No one would ever consider looking at another, another property software or that we want to use. So monopoly is not necessarily bad for good. It's something we can control. So I'd like to challenge all of us on this call as we listen. Let's be audacious. Let's take a program like Vivo, and let's create that monopoly that really creates change on a scale that nobody has seen before. Bruce I'll hand it back to you to Maris. Thanks so much. I thank you everybody for your attention. I love giving talks with Robert and de Maris because they always think so small. But please if you're interested in learning more about Vivo or anything that lyricist is doing reach out to us, and we would love to talk to you. Okay, thank you very much. Take it easy.