 I heard that they, they released a little, a little white text on black background. Apology. I suppose to rewite a little bit. People don't even know this is a thing, which I think is hilarious. It's like so gone. Yeah, I didn't know this game was like coming out until it essentially came out. Yeah. And, uh, so I can't give you why it has the most absurd recommended in minimum specs I've ever seen. And it's this random fucking golem. So rewind like years and when I found out this thing was even remotely like started up in terms of production, it was like you're going to play as golem running around, I guess, Mordor. And it was like, why? Of all the Lord of the Rings games you can make. I mean, I'm not going to say that there's no potential there. Sure. There is something you wanted to make like a stealth game, you know, having golem would be appropriate. You know, there's something. Why not play as Proto and Sam? I guess, you know, why not? Close the controversy around this. Oh, well, we're getting there, right? So that they, they do that as like they're, they're outset. They're like, we're just gonna make a golem game. So okay. And every once in a while there's been updates and it just looks terrible, like not, not just looks terrible, but like the whole situation looks terrible. And I just, I keep it, I've been keeping an eye on it with a friend and we've been going back and forth sharing things about how funny this game looks and how it just, I didn't realize it was coming out so soon. I thought he had another year or something. And it comes out. Well, before it comes out, the requirements came out. For PC, which rise, you read them out a couple days ago. Do you remember what they were? Yeah. Let me, yeah, let me grab them real quick. I think they're on this channel. Scrolly, scrolly, upy, upy. Give me a second here. It's a miracle in terms of gaming and a lot of people have heard about it already, but we will. Lucidate some of the grander events that relate to it because it's back in funny. I'm not even sure who made it. I don't know who Daedalus is. I do not know if this company is like some shitty third party job. Die Daedalic or Daedalic entertainment. G.B. Daedalic, Daedalic, Daedalic. Yeah, I've never heard of them, but. All right, here, I'll get them for you. All right, so behold. This is insane. Let us let me draw your attention to if you want to play this game at 1080p frame rate of 60 at medium settings, then it is recommended that you have an RTX 3060. Which is fucking nuts. There is no way that you should need a card of that umph in order to play a game at 1080p 60 FPS on medium settings in 2023 as well because like part of this is that if you look at the game, maybe it could be justified by like a huge complicated blah, blah, blah. This is a little goober running around in caves. And this is this. This is like with ray tracing off like with it on. Yeah, the recommended is like an RTX 4070. It's yeah, it's it's nuts. Like I wouldn't like I have a 4090. I wouldn't touch this game. I'm like, no, there's just no way I'm not I'm not doing this. This is madness. And the funny part is, I think the, you know, you got the cat it run crisis. Maybe cat it run gollum will become a new. I don't know how it got to this point, right? But so this is already a thing and it's like war that the implication here is optimization is fucked like they've not done enough work to really to say the bells and whistles on sort out would be an understatement. So it comes out and is it the worst reviewed game of the year so far already? I think the PS5 one is the worst and the PC one is the second worst of the year. I think that it might be the other way around. I can't move. It's looking bad. I saw of, you know, clips and different pieces of review as it's filled with bugs, definitively incomplete and the missions you're like gollum. I think I don't even know if you're immortal, but like one of the missions I saw skill up trying to explain it. So like you have to go and find eggs and then put them into like a thing and then find different materials to make the eggs grow until you finally hatch a bird and then the bird will be your helpful, like, you know, Navi types. You know how gollum would never do. This is like the mechanics of like an Atari 2600 game. Why would gollum give? Why would gollum do that? I don't know why hatch birds and shit. Well, I read some of the some of the reviews and like, you know, like you used to playing role-playing games with complex moral decisions. So gollum doesn't always need to do this. You are given moral decisions like for example, squash the creature or let it live. They don't actually impact the plot or your character particularly because your character as I understand it doesn't grow or gain new skills or alignment. So it's just, yeah, do you kill animals for fun or do you not kill animals for less fun? And that is, that is storytelling apparently. My favorite one, I think for the optimization thing, I was reading one of the reviews and one reviewer was trying to get through it and it was crashing like every five seconds. They went into the settings and found a specific setting for something like gollum hair animation. And if you turn that off, it makes his hair look slightly less greasy, but your game will run 40% better. But is it worth not having the grease? Dude, don't go to his character. I think it was definitely worth it for that just slight extra hair movement that you'll get. Like absolutely is not so luscious locks. So the game is awful and if not the like actual running of it being the biggest problem, it's just terrible. Like in terms of if it was working fully functional with no bugs, it would be awful too, right? They've got like big issues to say the least. Now the team behind it, they've follow suit with a lot of, you know, the standard sort of approach that terrible modern gaming has where they release a giant wall of text right on cue. And a lot of you will notice very quickly, what are the things of this? Like this is already bad enough news seeing something like this, right? But if I just read out, the Lord of the Ring, that does, yes, as dear players, we would like to sincerely apologize for the underwhelming experience many of you have had with the Lord of the Ring gollum. I keep adding the verb by chat. It's Lord of Ring. It's so bad. How did you ring? Oh, I thought it was Lord of the Ring. I keep instinctively adding the verb. It's Lord of Ring, the Lord of Ring gollum. Do you think when they realized that was there, they were like, oh, fuck, we can't repost this. Like, they must be like, we are digging ourselves deeper with every passing minute. The devs decided to like instead of retyping it all out, they just reposted the image. But they got like a little, like a doodle line from paint and they marked it out and added a little squiggly S and red or something like that. Like a little there, a little there above with like an arrow pointing down into like where it should go. It's so fucking funny. And it's so sad to write because like everyone's just talking about how in my day, games used to release complete. That was fun. It's like, yeah. You still get some games that release completed, right? That Zelda game. That's complete. Yeah. Those renecs, Resident Evil, Dead Space and Ragnarok, they all came out complete. Well, I mean, patches and stuff, wasn't there? Well, I can forgive patches if you've got something they didn't expect. Something like a great game breaking bug that someone found or like duplicate. I think the Zelda got a patch recently to stop people from duplicating items. You know, that's kind of part of the course, especially with millions of people playing a game. But when your game doesn't even fuck, like you're updating it so you can add a campaign. It's just like, damn, dude. So, yeah. You know, it's... God, do you remember Early Access? That's still going in there. That's just like... Yeah, that's still a thing. It's like that quickly just became a standard instead. Because... I guess at least without the access stuff, it's like labeled as such as like working progress. Label disaster. There was another wall of attacks that came out for the last of us, right? It's because I think there was like recently a Bloomberg report, the TLDR, as I understand it was. They'd been working on it for a while. Bungie took a look at it. They had concerns. So now the project is a... It's kind of like... It's kind of in a weird place, apparently. Which is the multiplayer. Yeah, that they've been working on for a while. But yeah, so who knows about what's going on there. But yes, they also posted the text thing of like... But I guess as it's different, it's like, yeah, we're still working on another game. But yeah, I don't know. I guess we'll see what happens on that front. Well, you had a couple relatively recently that came out full of bugs and issues. So Cyberpunk didn't No Man's Sky have like a huge amount of potential and then it was just crap on launch. But both of them sort of recovered because even though they were terrible on launch, you could sort of look at them and say, well, I see there is some potential here. If it worked, it might be okay. Whereas from what I've gathered from Godham, no one so far who's played this game says I can imagine it being worthwhile. Yeah, I think No Man's Sky is one of those legendary redemption arcs where they actually just like yuckled down and like went radio silent for like six months and then just released a massive patch that fixed like, you know, 90% of the issues. They're still updating it to this day. And I think that game came out 2016, but I'm pretty sure they're still actively updating and adding their stuff. Yeah, they went ham on it. They just kept updating it, kept adding shit, kept fixing shit, kept listening to community. I mean, to be fair, they did kind of make this problem for themselves. Oh, well, I promise an insane stuff that they could never possibly deliver. I'll always recommend the Internet story and video on it for like getting loads of context, but you're not, you're not wrong. There's loads of mistakes they made along the way, but they've done, I think, the best they can. I'm not sure what else they can do at this point, which is good. Hopefully the Gollum team will show similar resolve and we will get it. Gollum team, team Gollum. I can't wait to play the Lord of Ring Gollum personally. Lord of Ring sounds like, I don't know, the name of a gay porn movie or something. Or a sumo movie. Oh, yeah. It's maybe just like, you know, you get those knockoff movies, like the asylum release things, like the Lord of Ring, like done on a budget of like 500 bucks. I could see it. The cheap Chinese knockoff film that's poorly translated. So anyway, they got the license from to make a Lord of the Rings movie from someone. So I suppose, you know, obviously it's an officially licensed Lord of the Rings product. That's something. Do you think they just got the rights to Gollum and like nothing else in the world? Oh, yeah, that's right. That might be a thing because that's like with Rings of Power with Amazon's money, they were only able to get the rights to like some appendices of whatever. Ten-thirty pages, yeah, appendices versus... So, yeah, that's why we... Look, we ain't seeing Morgoth, guys. I don't think it's happening. All of you Morgoth fans out there, you might not get to see him. Like old golfers. It would be like Gollum sneaking around like unnamed dark like desert land. You can't say Mordor. I think they have got Mordor. I think you travel all over Middle Earth. I get, I think they've got some location rights. I don't believe you're going to do like, you know, the Dark Land of Blordor or something like that. You're not going to Bilbo's house with Ian Holm there. Oh boy. I sure do love being a hobbit in the Shire at my house. I sure miss my friend Gandalf the Grey. There's lots of potential there. We'll we'll check in in five years from now, see if Gollum team have come through. Who knows? I have faith. Hang in there, Gollum team. Don't give up. We are gathered here today. It's like Gollum made a game, maybe. Gollum is the developer. Hell yeah. I can see him making some games. You know what his imagination can bring us. It's just like smacking fish against the keyboard, trying to code. No, that kind of explains how we ended up with this there. You know, not not a bad try for the first. Anyway, we we we we're here to answer a simple question that has been plaguing the world of I don't know Star Wars for centuries or rather as long as Andor has been out. There's lots of this. This is one of them kind of controversial topics because Andor was enjoyed. We are five Andor enjoyers right here. It was enjoyed by many several people, but it was also not enjoyed by many to the point of abandoning it as they started it up or close to. And so they became a question of whether or not it is considered Star Wars because whether or not is good. It's kind of a conversation that got moved past because everyone either says yet is good or I don't know. I didn't think it was that great, but I didn't watch all of it and so kind of feels like the goods have it. But is it Star Wars? And you know, it's a it's a fair question kind of in the same vein that gets asked in like how many. Hey, drink it. How many Indiana Jones movies are there? Three. Hmm. Little platoon. How many Star Wars movies are there? Seven. I'm eating red one. All right. Yeah. Let's see. I feel like chat might have different answers on all this. I don't think you know it's it's good to ask that question a bunch of people because a lot of the times you you might get. I guess if you want to get your super purist, you could say two and a half and then maybe you could expand that to six and then someone might throw in, you know, like Rogue One or a lot of people might stick to six or they might say six and and or some people might just say three. They might say only this. I just count. Yeah, that. Oh, yeah, that's true. As I was running through that joke in my head, I actually forgot the sequel sort of existed. Wow. Holy fuck. I think I actually forgot the sequels existed for a second. This is my job and I forgot about it. Oh my goodness. How many Jurassic Park films are there? One. Because I would say three and I hate two of them, but I would still acknowledge them as Jurassic Park films. Well, you know what that kind of gets us into a position where we can start figuring out the answer to that question. But instead of doing it like we could do where we have us all discuss it extensively first. We can have someone else set the stage for us. Can we not? Yeah, I suppose so. I think we have that kind of power. Yeah, so this is a video called Why Andal Isn't Real Star Wars and made by a gentleman in November of last year. And he's got a follow-up. Let me, uh, this is not my first encounter with this conversation. I do have a little bingo sheet of arguments like this. Well, which doesn't feel like Star Wars. It's boring. Post it for us. No one asked for it. I've written it down on pen and paper because I'm really old fashioned. So I can't. No old fashioned bingo sheet. Does it like that? That's not how bingo started. Bingo requires that you do five things in a row. You can't just make a list. Unless they have to be five consecutive ones on the list. Oh, you have like a grid system. That would be easy enough to do. Yeah, because that's that's that's what that's what we call bingo. Well, so you just said I have a check. Just say checklist. That's a bingo thing because you can play bingo with a checklist. If you rearrange a bingo board, you can turn it into a check. You can only in the sense of how do you know consecutively up and down? How do you know when you've got bingo other than the because you do the grid? Isn't bingo like the do the grid? And then if you get, yeah, but you get the but you put a list. You got a line in any one direction. Rearrange it. It becomes bingo. And then you do like if I if he does three, that's all line of how the thing is it? This is generally like we started off talking about Star Wars and now we're getting into a deep and meaningful conversation with bingo. It's generally considered against the spirit of bingo to rearrange all of the things in such a way that you can manufacture for. Yeah, but normally how it goes that much is to arrange the board before you begin. All right. I'm genuinely tempted to go and turn this into a bingo game live so I can just prove our seven viewers who are above the age of seventy four are going to be really upset at your at your your butchery. And she's like one guy listed right. I was like, they better be playing that bingo properly. I've been playing bingo for forty seven years and that's not how the games played. Oh, there's a good Agnes over there. And she's got like seven cards in her 18 stamps and everyone hates that bitch. But man, she's makes good cookies. She's very good cookies. That's why people keep inviting her is like, well, we might not win bingo, but those are some pretty good cookies. So Agnes makes a mean batch of cookies. Are you guys ready for whatever this may entail? I would obviously on the list. I assume it's there will be to be on mine would be doesn't contain lightsabers. Yep, that's definitely on the list. No Jedi. No one asked for it. Which is right. It dies. We already know what happens. No force powers. Yeah, that's definitely going to be there. No Jedi. No Sith. No lights. No force. No Yoda. No Boba Fett. No Sarlacc pit. No, um, no goofy ass little puppet. No, um, you're just like Dave. Every single creature at Java's palace one by one really slowly from make sure you got his middle name, right? No rank. Salacious be crumb. That's it. Be crumb. Oh, nice. I'd sounded right. It sounded right. That's that's what they say. Yo, Salacious be crumb. And he's like, Salacious be crumming. Well, actually he says that because that's just how he talks to sound like a Salacious. Okay, gotta give a warning. The way this video starts is very 2008 ish. You were wise. This is made in November. Yeah. Well, so it's like a movie Bob video. Kind of. Yeah. So, um, you know, have you have a mouse over your volume control? That's all I'll say. In fact, I'm going to lower it right now ahead. There we go. Oh my goodness. Okay. How? Whoa. So what pulls it to spare us the incredible tunes? Why would you do that? No. Do you remember all the the videos back in the day that would just begin with something like this and had Dubstep and show? Yeah. Really loud Dubstep 009 sound systems, YouTube library. Ideally make it as obnoxiously long as possible as well. Like at least 30 or 40 seconds of just pure and true. Oh, well, he's cut it down. Cut to guy in room. Cutting guy in room. Come on. Hi, everybody. Yeah. Yeah, I'm in room. It's it's like, yeah, this this bombastic super cool. Kind of. Well, it's the thing, right? You'd be like, I don't think that really grabs the vibe of, you know, the video. You don't why, uh, why not go for something a little more chill and stuff? What do you with an intro like that? What would be the suitable video? And it's like a guy in fucking full decked out like robot suit with lights shining everywhere being like, hello, and welcome to my 34 year old. And I'll break down which set up video and he's got a whole bunch of nerd cred behind him and neon lights and he's like, hey, everyone, you know, it is me, the nerd way coming at you with another video this time. It's not what is what is what is going on? Isn't it? So please don't say coming at you. I hate when they say that. They always say that. I'm not coming at you live through the power of the internet. No, what? Definitely not that one. Not that. But hey, we got Dr. Who Spider-Man X-Man. True. Yeah, we've got the you got the TARDIS. Funko box. Comic books. You got the comic books on the wall. I would say certified nerd. So maybe getting some. We got a Funko Pop. It's okay to have a couple. It is okay because someone bought it for you and it's like, okay, I got two. I have I think one and it's the Mr. Freeze one and someone did buy it for me. It's not my fault. I didn't. Oh, that's a good one to have. I have a good one to have. Brimstone and Palawa Joko. So there's a couple that a couple that have there. You know, you have a couple. But once you start hitting three. Oh, okay. Watch, watch, watch it. As soon as you can get a pyramid out of it, you might have some problems. Yeah. Yeah. A little while ago, I put out a video. Talking about how Andor was doing so poorly on Disney Plus. Why is it so confused by his own admission there? I know. Um, did Andor probably did do poorly, right? Unfortunately. Or earlier than they thought it would be. Paulia. Paulia than they needed it to be. I had imagined. Do we have figures for it? No. Yeah. Going from the general enthusiasm of promotion of the whole show, right? It's gone from being like Andor would have been like, yeah, we'll get a season two or some sometime. Well, I guess it would be more. I'm pretty sure it was like definitely not the plan that season two would be the end, but season two is the end. And it's like, why is that happening? Probably because not enough people. Not enough people. Yeah. Well, uh, you know, if someone wanted to be honest, like, do you think it's because it's bad? It's like, no, I don't think it has anything to do with it being bad. It's to do with how horribly delivered it was. It came after Kenobi, Boba Fett and two seasons of Mando, which it's to do with the rest of Star Wars being shit. Yeah. Um, do we need to state? I guess at the beginning, our, what are our opinions on Andor for anyone who doesn't know? Um, well, I think a lot of us think it's good to great. I think it's really good. Yeah. I think it's really good. I think it's the best Star Wars content since I guess the Empire Strikes Back slash a few parts of Return of the Jedi. Um, it's like, it's really good. Um, what a fucking shame. Yes. Um, yeah, but we're very pro Andor. I am at least. Well, and we've even talked about how, uh, even we weren't, we didn't watch it as it came out. We had to be told to go back and watch it. I had to get recommendations from several people because, and it's not because it was a shit show. It's because I just fucking burn out on Star Wars, burn out on shit Star Wars to be fair. Um, yeah. Cause like, I still remember us watching that first episode and we were like, Oh, this is a thing. Yeah, we were surprised. I remember when we were smaller and Platoon and I covered it on open bar one evening. Uh, I think we've seen like the first three episodes dropped and yeah, like pretty much every time we covered a Disney Plus Star Wars show, it was just laughing at how comically inept and ridiculous it was. And in this one, it was like, wow, we're starting to pick through some interesting character arcs. There was, there was interesting stuff to discuss. You know, it was this weird dawning realization of, well, they actually, they put a bit of thought into this and there's quite a lot to work through. Yeah, we were really surprised. Like opening scenes with several characters had a lot of characterization and it was consequences of like an original action, which was with, you know, when he kills the two guys, a lot of things spring from that. Really close in. Yeah. It's just, it just felt weird because we were so used to everything else. And I was even going to say, like, uh, you know, why, why would you watch Bad Delorean almost religiously compared to dropping off of Adored? It's like, well, that's the thing. Mando's like cringe and we do enjoy a bit of cringe. We find it amusing. It's like cringe connoisseurs. It engaging. And all was good. And then we just like had stuff to do and just fell off and we're like, oh fuck, it's just like a TV show is waiting to be watched. And, you know, that combined with people who didn't want to watch any Star Wars anyway, goodbye with the people who don't care about Andal because why would you care about Andal? I understand that as well. And it's just like, yeah, the show just had fucking zero coverage almost. It's really sad rules. So that that's the aspect of it being fundamentally closed ended. So it's not, it's not something you need to watch to understand any subsequent Star Wars thing. We already know it's the argument you often hear. Well, we already know how it ends. We've already seen one. It's not got a huge amount of open space in front of it. It doesn't mean it can't be really good in its own right because I agree. I think I think it is, but unlike something like the Mandalorian or certainly any new Star Wars sequel film, you sort of need to watch those to understand where the universe is moving to in the longer term. Whereas Andal is just kind of, well, if you're really interested, you can see it. You don't have to, though, to understand Rogue One. It's true, though. I'm hoping by the time we finish season one and two of Andal, Rogue One will be better for it. We'll be able to watch him be like, oh, that's that's better now. To get more eyes in front of it. Now, Disney was saying, you know, it wasn't because it was doing poorly. They just, you know, thought since it's the holidays, they would put it out there. So, you know, people who might not have seen it will watch it and then move on to Disney Plus to finish watching it. I mean, Disney are never going to say that anything is doing poorly. Yeah. They'll never say that. They're never going to go like poorly. It's like if they don't say what the numbers are, the numbers weren't good. I mean, come on. When they're asked for an assessment of Echo when that gets dropped, I'm sure they'll say like, well, it actually did break several records like overperformed expectations. We won't tell you what those are. We've had all kinds of reviews saying it's one of the best TV shows I've ever seen. So I like the creative ways they go to do it. It's when HBO says of Velma, it was the the most watched HBO original animated content ever released on HBO Max. It's like, qualify, qualify, qualify, qualify. Yeah. The 17 asterisks that come along with the nose. Great. It's great. And what would you say if they if it came out and they just went, yeah, it was bad. People didn't watch it. Yeah, we're not doing that again. It would be so refreshing to get a studio that was super honest about all this stuff and be like, yeah, we fucked up there. You guys didn't like that, huh? Well, okay. Well, we'll write that down in our notes. No more the white text background. We're sorry for the inconvenience we've caused. We're sorry that our work didn't live up to the expectations of the audience, etc. We had no idea you guys wouldn't fucking despise it. Oh, and someone just said that Rip Willow. Yes. Willow has been torn off Disney Plus. Oh, yeah. That's right. Did you see one of the writers who was fucking dead, like just losing his mind? Yes. Yeah. He went to Twitter. He's like, no, no, no, no, guys. Season two. This was back in March. He was like, no, no, no, no, guys. It's not canceled. We just said the actors can go off and do their own other stuff. And we're not going to be like, we'll team up again someday. Maybe next year or so. And I mean, it's so bad that less than five months after the last season is we're removing it from our streaming server. No, no, no, it's it's fine. It's not canceled though, right? I mean, there's there's hope for a season two. Well, there's this one of the writers on it was a guy called John Bickerstaff. And there was an article from Forbes saying it's your last chance to see how bad the new Disney Plus Willow show is before it's gone for good. And he just replied to the spirit. He replied saying, hey Forbes, get fucked. It reminds me of that Simpsons moment where Hope was trying to get the pig and it's like the pig being Willow in this case and it's like getting hit by mud and water and all these different equilities like it's still good. It's still good. Yeah, you can still watch it. It's still there. I did find Willow highly entertaining though. It was one of my favorite things to watch just for a while. I don't think I've gritted my teeth so much in a TV show like ever. It was so insufferably annoying. Like I just found all the characters so so 2022. I just couldn't believe he is acting. That was really shocking. How dare he mean? I wish I knew more lines because it's fun. He's a nice guy. You are a Laura Danon. You are a Laura Danon. This has ever lived. You are the chosen one. You have to save the world. That sounds like it's got two emotions in there, right? Too much emotion. You're going to break it down a bit. Lightly. You are a Laura Danon. Nice guy, I'm sure. But fuck me. You cannot act. It's worth a shit. Or he can, but he knew what he was doing. Or you can, or you knew what you were here for. I don't want people to confuse this with my actual famous role. So I'm going to make me really shit so people don't associate it. Well, he did say he was channeling Mark Hamill's Luke Skywalker from the TLJ era, which you can kind of see in the complete absence of hope in his performance. Absence of anything looking like a human being. He's just like, I'm just dead all over. Yeah, that's that's not why they did that. They did it because it's it's doing poorly. No real Star Wars fans are watching this. Oh, the cringe. No real Star Wars fans are watching this. Well, I watched it and I, I guess, you know, all things considered, I guess I would consider myself a real Star Wars fan. No, I think. Do you consider yourself a real Star Wars fan? What does that mean? What are you, what are you? You can't ask me the question because I asked you the question. I am a fan of those three movies that came out ages ago. I'm a fan of the prequels. I like some of the things that Disney have done from that IP called Star Wars. Does that make me a Star Wars fan? Yes. I think I'd have to go with yes. So I hesitate because of what Star Wars is these days is a horrible mess. I mean, it's like I'm not a fan of that, but. That isn't all of Star Wars, right? Right, I guess. Like, yeah, I guess it depends what you mean. What do you reckon? I mean, I would you consider yourself a fan drinker? What about you? I would consider myself a fan of Star Wars. Am I a real fan? Hmm. Hey, I mean, I'm kind of in the same position as you is like, I like the OT really good. Got fond memories of that. Kind of enjoyed the prequels for what they were and, you know, felt really disillusioned by the what Disney have done with it. But then I don't have that encyclopedic knowledge of all the expanded universe stuff and, you know, every obscure TV show that they've put out. I just don't have that. So am I a am I a real Star Wars fan or just a casual? I don't know. Well, we watched and I guess we ruled out. I guess so. Yeah, I just seems like a pointless argument to make on his behalf. Like, if this is if this video is predicated on and or is not real Star Wars, like getting to that argument, don't start talking about like how successful it was with the viewers. That's that's not important. Um, I mean, I don't necessarily blame him for mentioning I just wish that the he would probably would include. I have a feeling we're going to be heading toward like it failed because it's not real Star Wars. We're just like, no, come on. The factors that involve the failure for this are a lot more. It was coming off Boba Fett and Kenobi. Why would you watch any Star Wars after that? Like, I don't I don't blame people being like, I ain't gonna fucking watch the the and or show after those two. I actually like Boba Fett and Obi-Wan Kenobi. I don't even care about the Cassian Andor. But the thing is, like it's not like Disney cares if real Star Wars views of you a subscription is a subscription. They don't care if real Star Wars fans watch it or it's just random people tuning in to see it. I think at this point, they would just take fucking anyone. Well, let's just anybody got the real test going. How many of us are real willow fans and we saw Willow. So, you know, Oh, me. I am a big willow fan. Yeah, I love every couple of weeks. I watched the original movie weeks. Man, you have big gaps between it. I got it too. Yeah, it's a daily drug for me. I have to enjoy the afterglow of it before I get on to my next fix, you know, is a more charming time. I watch it in slow motion. Why would you watch a show about a side character no one really cared about from a movie? Because the story in and of itself can be something worth appreciating and it can be well written. His argument is not unreasonable, right? Because we all felt the same way. It's like, why would any of us be interested in Andor? Well, if I remember the story is going to end. We, you know, he's not a particularly interesting character based on the movie. So there's not a huge amount to draw us into this one. Yeah, the thing when we talked about it before it released, we would mention this as a reason why it's probably not going to get much engagement. It doesn't stop it from being good. It stops it from dragging people in to see it. This is the opposite of something like Boba Fett and Kenobi, like a whole show about Boba Fett, a whole show about Obi-Wan Kenobi between the OT and the prequels. Like, there you go. I'm hooked it and then it was shit. He's like, oh, so I guess what this portrait of conversation is, is about hooking people in with premise and it's like, yeah, this wasn't the greatest hook. I don't really deny that at all. It's also, it's a slightly paradoxical argument to say, well, I'm a real Star Wars fan. Why would I watch anything that doesn't have the most immediately and obviously recognizable people in it? Like why would I be interested in the backstory and the well-building of parts of the galaxy I haven't already seen? I'm a real fan. I only want to see characters I already know. I think Disney is unfortunately sort of trained its audience in a way to expect certain things and want certain things. I think you look at like the Mandalorian and the kind of show that that is and you're like, oh, yeah, this is what you'll sort of expect now. True. And you know, this equal trilogy polarizes the audience. You know, having seen icons destroyed, people become sort of reflexively defensive of icons and they don't want any departure from the known and the familiar. It's a kind of reactionary element of the fan base, which I don't particularly like or agree with, but I just, yeah, I just don't really like being told that I'm not a real fan by somebody who has an incredibly limited idea about what Star Wars production scope could possibly be. And that's the thing at this point. I would prefer it if they said new movie coming out, brand new characters, different part of the universe. And it's this era that's vaguely between two things that you know happen, but has nothing to do with either of them. You're like, wow. All right. I'm more on board with you creating completely original stuff in this universe at this point because you've absolutely fucking butchered almost everything that I liked about it so far. The irony is like this, like Andor for as much as it's totally quite different from everything else we've seen from Disney Plus. It doesn't contain the familiar Star Wars elements that we look for, you know, like all the things that Platoon and Rags have listed. It's far better connected to the Star Wars universe than any of the other shows that we've seen. Because it actually like references things going on across the galaxy. You actually get a real sense of like what the state of play is in this world. It's almost like it has a world that it builds. That's what none of the other shows bothered to do. So is that the hot take? The not only do we believe this thing is Star Wars, but it's more Star Wars than most things Disney have made. If not all things Disney have made. It's a better, better real sci-fi world than most things. Yeah, it's better connected to the Star Wars world than anything else that they've they've created. TV wise at least. Yeah, I think so. You can even you can link it to like individual little lines. There's the line in, is it a new hope or is it Empire Strikes Back where they explain that the Imperial Starfleet can't be everywhere at once. The Empire can't be everywhere. So the rebels strike them where they're not. And you know that invites the question, what does the galaxy under Imperial rule look like when the Empire doesn't have the resources to manage and administer and enforce law and order in that particular region of the galaxy? And Andor's answers those, you know, they seem like really slight little world-building questions, but actually it's packing in an awful lot of depth to something that was previously just sort of invited and you could speculate about it. The old expanded universe showed a lot of it, but that's no longer in existence. Thanks to Miss Kennedy. So Andor actually is doing probably more than any Disney Star Wars show has done to rebuild all of that stuff and I quite like it for that. And rebuild it in a way that's actually believable as well. It kind of makes sense the structure. You know, you've got these like low level corporate security guys who just handle the day-to-day stuff. And you know, it's only when things get really serious that the Empire actually shows up physically to deal with it. It feels significant when the stormtroopers show up. Oh yeah, it actually elevates them to a meaningful threat as opposed to just the goons of the Star Wars universe they've become. But yeah, the private security thing was honestly one of my favorite things about it because it's it's a very historically and psychologically astute show. There's clearly a lot of work that's been done sort of researching the sort of the takeover of previously peaceful countries by sort of tyrannical fascistic regimes and the kind of person who always existed there who's elevated to a position of power and authority tend to be these these low level sort of inconsequential little grunts who've suddenly been given absolute power over their local districts and then it brings out the absolute worst megalomaniacal tendencies in them. And in order to show us all of this, it's kind of yeah, it was just really fascinating to watch multiple times in fact, because the more times you see that stuff, the more little bits of character that you pick out from it. Unlike Mando, where the more times you watch it, the more glaring the whole scene. That first scene with Cyril was actually like very persuasive in terms of like this is not like anything I've seen from Disney before, like whoa. And you've got that great sort of dichotomy between the ideological sort of convert in Cyril and the sort of physical grunt type person who really is only in it for sadistic reasons and that clash in personality when Cyril comes there all sort of bright and starry eyed with no real idea of how the imposition of power actually works and he's stuck with this sort of burly Scottish, no offence drinker, very physical man who shows him sort of the darker side of power. That's very effective. Well, and I love the guy he's reporting to who's like this, he's just been there for so long, knows how to get by without making too much noise, put things in the right place and just everyone can keep on going and be happy. That sort of, it makes everything feel a lot older and experienced. Convinced you this is a real thing that's happening in this world. A lived in world, you know? Yeah, it's just, could that not be what Star Wars is? Did it not feel that way? But hey, we'll let him get some more points out of here. What else we got? But needless to say, I got a lot of comments saying how I was wrong, how it's the bestest show ever. It's the most Star Wars show ever. Really good. It's even more Star Wars-y than Empire Strikes Back. I'm not saying it's more Star Wars-y than Empire Strikes Back. I'm not saying that, but I mean... You might be making a bit of a straw man here. I think you get some strong Empire vibes from it. I can't see many people ever saying that. Most people who love Star Wars love Empire. Empire Strikes Back has got like 40 years worth of time to develop this, you know, this thing. Yeah, this love. It's just been marinating in classic-ness for that long. It made Star Wars... It just took it into an incredible direction. I mean, I don't even know how to say if it could ever be unseeded, maybe, but I doubt it. Especially at this rate. It was very difficult to unseed something like that, but anyone's saying it's better than Empire. I mean, you know, it's bold, but not impossible. The only thing that has a chance at this point... Except... I don't need it to draw that comparison. It doesn't have a better Empire in order for me to consider a worthwhile thing to watch. No, absolutely. That's the thing. It's clearing all of Disney. As people say, that's a pretty fucking low bar. And it's like, oh yeah, okay, I'll just say it's good then. That obviously clears all of Disney. It's like, oh, okay, yeah. It does, yeah. It makes it easily the best thing Disney's done in terms of the Star Wars, yeah. And also, this guy, tell us what a real fan is. You know, if you're gonna... That's a strong statement. If you're gonna make a strong statement like that, then let us know what is a real fan when it comes to Star Wars. What separates the real fans from the fakers or the trenders or something like that, you know? That's the kind of thing you should let us know. It's important. Better than the Empire Strikes Back. Well, I was confused as to why these people would... Love a show so much. Still confused. And then I was watching another YouTuber today and he brought up an article from GameRant from back in September when the show first aired or before the show aired. All right. And it all made sense. Okay. Tony Gilroy doesn't understand Star Wars. Uh-oh. So that's the showrunner if anyone didn't know. Oh, well, he doesn't understand Star Wars. I wonder what that show looks like if he does. Probably shit at this point. Well, if someone said Favro and Filoni understand Star Wars, I'd be like, oh... Yeah, because they do, I guess. Filoni and Favro, you know, I guess they understand Star Wars a lot and look what it's produced. I mean, those shows are Star Wars through and through. You know, Mandalorian, Boba Fett, 100%, they're very Star Wars and they're crap. They're awful. So what does it even mean to understand Star Wars? Maybe Star Wars needs, you know, fresh eyes and a new perspective and a new take because, boy, we just can't keep going down this route. Well, I'm curious, what did he say that disqualifies him for being a star? Understand or... Pretender to the Throne! What were you going to say? Not even necessarily a fresh perspective, but somebody who has... His love for writing is at least 50% of their love for iconography would be a good start. That's a new perspective. I guess it kind of is, actually. Where's Boba Fett? It's an old perspective that's being brought back as opposed to a completely brand new thing to the franchise. It was there 3,000 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Let's end of the article ourselves, shall we? Let's do it. Breedroy didn't mince words when he flat out said that he's not a fan fan of Star Wars. Wait, no, I want the full quote. What do you say? Well, I'm more than happy to tackle something out of context. I just want to, you know, because we can imagine some stuff on top of it, but I want to know what it is. Because not a fan fan? It's like that could mean a lot of things. Yeah, because the thing that this guy said is not a fan. He said not a fan fan. That's a funny sentence now. I mean, considering our conversation earlier, right, where I was like, oh, I'm not too much of a fan of, you know, a lot of what Star Wars is now, but I'm also a fan of it. Well, so my first read of not a fan fan, if somebody said that would be, yeah, like I like it, but like I'm not, you know, like it's not like my most favorite thing like ever in the world. Like I'm not obsessed with it. I like that you're a casual enjoyer of something. As opposed to not a fan which kind of tells me like, oh, so you don't like, you're not very familiar with it at all or potentially that you don't even like it. None of it precludes you from being able to write a really good Star Wars story. It's true. If you're talented and you've got good ideas and you're also willing to do the research so that you can make sure it doesn't conflict with the world, then there's nothing to stop you being perfectly good at this. You don't have to like love it as the best thing in the world. It's okay. This may indicate that while he enjoys it well enough, it's probably not on any of his top five lists, though he didn't elaborate on this meaning. He even went as far as to admit he consulted Wikipedia, the online encyclopedia for any and all Star Wars lore. That's kind of good. So is he expected to know the most obscure details of Star Wars lore just off the top of his head? The fact that he looked it up, that he looked up stuff, that's cool. He double checked his references. I'm willing to bet. Ryan Johnson did not consult Wikipedia when he wrote T.O.J. No, fuck that. If you're sitting there with the director writing whatever and they're like, I'm gonna have to check Wikipedia the main guy from the original one. Luke Skywalker, that's it. Lucas, Luke. You'd be like, oh, you have to Wikipedia that? That's not reassuring. However, if he says like, what's the name of the fucking shipping containers they use? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Because I need to refer to it in this dialogue, but I don't know what they're called. Something like that. I'd be like, yeah, that's totally fine. I would even extend this to like, can you name all of the Jedi on the Jedi Council? Between the five of us, we could probably name some of them. There's Yaddle and the fucking useless ones. Of course there's Yaddle, yes. Kiari Mundi. Other weird-head creatures. Blue Coon. Yeah, that's one. Oh, Coon. I don't know if his first name's Poo. Sorry, I didn't mean to just call him Poo. I can give you Yoda and Mace Windu and then I'm all right. I think it's on the council, but he's not the rank of master. Doesn't have the rank of master. That's what I've heard. Kifisto, of course. Kifisto, yeah. Kifisto on the council. Why not? Why not? Chakti? Why not? Ooh. What's the guy with the really long neck? Max Rebo? Hell yeah. That guy survived the Jedi purge. He was out and getting paces. Absolutely. Yeah, and ironically, he hated being the guy who had to go out and get food, but it saved him. It was a robot chicken joke, I see. I was about to ask about if anybody knew the deep lore of there was just pretending. They know the deep lore. You know the robot chicken meme? Oh. No, I don't think so. I might have seen it years ago. He went out and got pizza. And then he worked on the Death Star in the cafeteria. Oh, I had no clue. Oh yeah, that's one I must not have seen. Or it's just been so long. I forgot. Disturbance in the force. You didn't give us any crackers. And then he just had like a bag of biscuits. And then he walked away. Does anybody who orders pizza do they eat the crackers? It's just like a symbolic gesture. Why, pizza with like people order crackers with their pizza? What? Like the cheap, saltine sort of things that they just so like give you to eat. And you're just like, oh, does anyone ever actually have this? They give you those with pizza? I don't know. Maybe it's just an American thing. I don't know. Some people just do. I've never, I don't think I've ever gotten a pizza and they're like, here are some crackers with your pizza. You wouldn't say that to them. What brand? What chain are you thinking of? I don't know. I just think like generally. They're all cold and you mad. Except for a couple. I'm not saying I agree with it. No, they're questioning whether it even happened. I think it does happen sometimes. You don't sound very confident. It can happen. But generally what you get is you get the pizza and then it has sometimes they have like peppers, a couple of green peppers maybe in there, like on the side, if you want those. And they have two packs, one of which is like even more fucking cheese if you want to put more on the top, or like the little red pepper. See, I do consider myself, I consider myself a fan fan of pizza. In fact, I had pizza before I came on this stream. I will go so far as to admit that I'm currently googling this and looking up to see the gifts you crack. I haven't found one yet. I just want the idea of like a takeaway taste. Like, oh, we've got to throw in some other shit. I don't know, a pack of crackers. Fuck it, throw in. What are you talking about? Like a box with extra cheese. No, no, you get like packets of cheese. Parmesan cheese. Yeah, like Parmesan cheese. Parmesan cheese. Yes, like dust. Like cheese dust in packets. And you sprinkle that on top of it. If your fat fucking face doesn't have enough cheese on your pizza already, you can sprinkle more Parmesan cheese dust on your pizza. What does that look like? You get the pizza like you want extra cheese for that pizza? Generally what they do is you have the cracker and the crackers. You have the pizza box with the pizza inside of it and sort of the packets are sort of put inside the space between the top of the box and the bottom of the box where they meet. By default, or you got to pay more for that? It's been default to my experience that it comes with this thing. That's foreign to me then. It may be totally foreign. With a hot pizza as well. Maybe it's an American thing. All right, I'll drink it. God damn it, I'll say it again. The box has the pizza inside of it and any of the pizza box is such that the top of the lid fits inside the bottom part, right? So when it closes, there's a little gap between the bottom and the top sort of where they meet. And along that little space, that's where they stick the packets in. This is not an unusual thing. This is not a natural thing. This is what they do. I'm not saying that I approve of it or that I think it's a good thing. I believe everything is said. I believe that you believe it, Rex. This is what they do. Rads knows how it feels when you explain that in Australia there's a toilet and a bathroom. How he knows how it feels. Now you know how it feels. Anyway, I'm door. Oh, yeah. I hit play. So you have a guy who admits he's not a fan. Ooh, careful there. He's a fan fan. He might be a fan one. He might be level one fan. Nobody says they're not a fan fan when all they mean to say is they're not a fan. Obviously he means something else. The words are on the screen in front of this guy as he's speaking. How can he not remember what he just read? I would say that it might I don't know if I want to jump the gun yet but it's like damn man feels a little uncharitable. I would say so too. Because again, when somebody says he's not a fan, like that tells me oh, you like it. You're just not but you're not like super duper like this isn't like your favorite thing in the world. You're not like really. He doesn't know about Star Wars lore. No, it doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about Star Wars. He looked it up. If he's going to know he knows all that stuff everyone knows of course the game. But even if I fucking looked up Wikipedia to find out how to spell like Yaddle for example I wouldn't blame him. Yeah good double check good stuff. I mean like why why shun that? That's a good thing. That's the first step to becoming a true a fan fan. I think that we should not discourage any fucking showrunner from considering looking up facts about the actual IP on a fan made Wikipedia. Are you kidding me? That's the God said. We need more of that. Well, I mean basic research should absolutely be encouraged because as you know, Mahler what's his face who directs Sam Raimi who directed Doctor Strange multiverse of madness. He didn't watch Wandavision. He never finished Wandavision. Michael Waldron didn't watch Wandavision. Well both of them as far as I know. It was recently found out about Michael Waldron definitely not doing it right. We've been finding out more apparently Elizabeth Olson just stopped like reading rewrites of the scripts. The actors for America's Shavas try to defend Michael Waldron by saying that his script was torn to pieces and re-shot all the time and stuff. And yet he's coming back for Secret Wars. I don't know man. If you're going to come back and keep working for Disney then you've got to nature the way that that work was created. It's not like it was a series of incredible scenes that were out of order. The individual lines were cringed too. So what are you going to tell me that they tore the words up and rearranged them like individually? I don't buy it. There's no Star Wars well enough to at least you know go on his own that he has to consult. So I'm going to be honest with you if I was show running an entire Star Wars TV show I don't think I would be able to do it from memory alone. I could probably get away with it but I wouldn't want to. Yeah I would be reading that Wikipedia like a fucking bible. You should be willing to double check and just make sure that you've got all your stuff straight. Don't just rely on your own memory. I don't know why we're shitting on somebody for doing research. People rightly shat on Ryan Johnson for not doing research. So now again have one or the other but not both. Well it seems the complaint is the fact that you have to even look it up is bad enough which is bizarre when you don't know what he was looking up. What if he was looking up like really obscure shit like what is the name of this specific ship or like what are some like locations in like this one planet that people might not have heard of before like I don't know just seems pretty abnormal. Yeah. You can't devote all that to memory and if you did like I don't know man. The show is being made by someone who doesn't like Star Wars. No. You didn't say that. I'm sorry but you watch Andor. You don't conclude the person who made Andor doesn't like Star Wars. They kind of love it actually. And I love the way that they see Star Wars too. Hmm. That the people with him in the writer's room the people surrounding him and stuff like Star Wars either. You don't need to make that assumption. He even said probably it's like where have you got this from. It's just you put like that's where'd that come from that doesn't logically follow one guy said that he's not a fan fan which you concluded means he's not a fan and doesn't understand Star Wars therefore the people who were also writing with him probably also don't know what Star Wars is that's not like a political connection. Looking for an excuse to sit on Andor I guess I don't know. It's getting weird. I have precedent for this. Spack another producer in the Disney conglomerate Nate Moore Marvel producer said that they don't hire writers or directors or anybody who actually enjoys the source material who likes it. That's because that's Marvel and this is Lucasfilm and they are separate even though they are both under the Disney umbrella they have different leadership. This is such a stretch. They would rather hire people who don't like the source material. They made a mistake with Tony Gillroy then because he didn't say that did he? It's such do you guys they're like yeah we hired people and I was like that's just excellent guys good job. Awesome. Glad that's paying off. No way I'm denying by the way that there are people in Disney who seem to not either not give a shit at all about Star Wars or actively hate it. It's just a product to them. I'm sure that's the case but I don't see why we're saying that about the people who made Andor. This feels like a reverse argument where he's like Andor's not good but I can't say that so instead I'll say the people who made it hate Star Wars. Okay Let's draw that from the show though. Who don't like the property. All their quotes. So they can come in and not write what the character actually should be but they take what does that with lots of characters who are like original? What should they be? What Andor characters are incorrect? What should Luthin like did they bring him in to write him how he should not be when they made him? Does Luthin need like a Mandalorian helmet and jetpack? Or is he specifically referring to Andor and Mon Mon Point? Are those the two characters he's talking about that he feels were out of character in Andor or is this I guess maybe still on the marble point? I guess we'll find out hopefully. The character strip everything away and then they fill that character in with their own. Yeah, this I don't with Andor. They filled in the character with their own agenda and biases please just just tell me what ones give me an example also who doesn't I can't think the only two I can think of Mon Mothma in the established cinematic canon excluding the stuff that Disney has done away with has about three lines of dialogue at the end of Return of the Jedi and a couple of lines of dialogue in Rogue One. That's it. There's actually not a huge amount of character to remove from Mon Mothma. She has a position. That's the role she serves in the plot. She doesn't really have a huge amount of material currently written for her that forms a part of this information. So this show is building toward the depiction of Mon Mothma as we see her in Rogue One and then as we will eventually see or it will change our perspective perhaps of her as we see her in Return of the Jedi but it's not taking anything away from the established depiction what I'm aware of. Like it shouldn't be controversial to say Mon Mothma's greatest moments in the Star Wars canon as it stands right now is in Endor. Obviously. Easily. She's one of that character from that shot. She's a really excellent character. She's definitely top tier. That's where you get what kind of forever. What? So forever. It was a leap. I got to theorize that the people surrounding Tony Gilroy and Tony Gilroy himself. No, this is not. This is just like not a logical just like just theorize it. I guess. Yeah. But theorizing implies that there's like like a something to work with. You've got nothing. You've got a producer for Marvel said something that was lame and then like you just sort of applied it to a totally different production and it's also worth keeping in mind as well right like that Endor doesn't have a lot of the are the same people sort of it's involved in terms of producing it because like John Fabro and Dave Filoni I don't believe that they were like involved like really at all. It's totally separate from them. They're writing this with their own biases and their own agendas attached. It is the thing about it is fine with that because most humans do it's it's how it infects the work right and how it makes it break apart or how it strengthens it. I need to see because there were values from George Lucas poured into Star Wars right. Certainly the prequels in the OT you can you can derive messaging in those films but I think that they're done in such a way that it's in line with the world and the characters and stuff and then you can get it really clunkly and bad and it's like preachy and stupid. Just tell me where in Endor that it all fell apart. How did it all get broken by a writer being shit you know. I have these arguments with people occasionally when I'm doing anything on sort of old school Star Wars you know when you say that Star Wars is not itself political you can read Star Wars politically but Star Wars itself is not preaching political manifestos at you and people will say what are you talking about George Lucas was clearly writing a metaphor for Vietnam and the American Empire so yes that's that's your read into it that's how you read art politically but Ronald Reagan also invoked Star Wars against the Soviet Union at the time. Communists and capitalists alike liked Star Wars and they could both read their own preferred metaphors into it. The same thing sort of holds true with Endor and it was a bit more tricky to like completely separate from the politics of the thing because it is overtly revolutionary. I think what it does quite well is it does abstract sort of the political revolutionary aspect from you know identifiable political trends in the modern day again it's not doing allegory in sort of a political party political sense so it's not really cramming biases in except insofar as you think that fascistic empire is a bad and should be opposed. That's the thing I think that the allegory to be drawn from Endor both enjoyable and interesting talk about but fundamentally I saw the whole show as just sort of a look into fascistic systems how they rise maintain power and how they fall what it takes to topple them I found that really interesting from the ideals from individual characters and what their goals are and how everything like so many different individuals within this entire system getting shaped to complete opposites or dying as a result of a very strict principle or someone like the two of the characters I would pick right like Luthon is just one of my favorites easily only basically wins his own soul in order to make a difference in stopping the empire but then you have that guy from episodes I want to say 456 who plays himself the sort of a heroic character who has a tragic backstory with his brother having died and blah blah blah and it keeps him going so but then we find out later that it's all a lie because he's relying on the sort of aesthetic of fighting against fascism when really he just wants money like what an interesting character to have in there and how true that would be to real life that some people are just trying to get their own shit sorted out you know so yeah if someone was to say like yeah but that's preachy have you like tell me how I think this you could make that argument if say you you had a system of government in the star wars universe that was previously portrayed as like relatively stable and good and fair and democratic and and or tried to flip it and and recontextualize it as like an evil empire that had to be like struggled against and an overthrown that would be pretty cheap because it's like you're trying to completely reshape the the world in order to fit the sort of whatever political manifest yeah like arguing here or something and crazy yeah exactly yeah it's like you're trying to apply this to like the modern view of america or whatever like yeah we've got overthrown all of it but like no this is an existing empire that we knew was evil anyway from the ot you're simply given expanded detail and how this revolution against them began that's fine it's not so if anything um they're making the empire a little they're adding a little bit more humanity in there with a lot of workers who are just normal people trying to get jobs done maintain laws yeah they refer to it as the banality of evil i think yeah this is like because it's like even the most evil of um empires and and everything like it's ultimately just composed of normal people who have lives you know they have to do all the same things that we have to do day to day how does that work how does it look you know how do we get to see things from their point of view it's good it's interesting stuff tony gilroy's world view disguised as a star war story what's his world just tell me yeah give me an example of what's wrong what is it because his worldview makes for good star wars whatever it is i guess i don't know this is this whole thing is based on one quote from the guy who's like oh i'm not a fan fan of star wars and it's like he's just gone off on this crazy like rabbit hole of like he was like position five words in quotes and then just some broader descriptions of what he was referring to and then it's like yeah and or it's just tony gilroy's world view masquerading as a star wars show can we please expand on that thought with some repercussions half the close from like the events of the example show us some scenes show us some footage show that'd be great here's why it's wrong yeah for any of this that'd be nice here's what he did this why this is why it's tainted by his world view and this is why it's wrong just but no it's easier for me to just sit here in front of my webcam and just give you my thoughts without anything to back them up i think describing them as thoughts at this point would be generous yeah opinions i guess what we've got here so that made me think about these fans the ones that are you know commenting maybe they never like star wars either oh don't pull that card please maybe the people like and or people who don't like stars like oh man if you were in charge it makes me think that we wouldn't have gotten and or and man that would have sucked explains why they keep saying that this is better than the empire strikes back maybe they i don't know who's i just don't it's not a sentiment i've seen very often if at all i just don't see that seems to be people saying is the best thing since empire i've seen but i i i yeah i could absolutely see why someone would say that i think you could put some gas into that and yeah this is this is like the definition of straw man and right here it's like i've perhaps seen one comment that this effect somewhere and i'm just gonna apply that that opinion to like anyone who supported this show in his head he's like people out there saying it's the best thing disney of all it's like well that's kind of reasonable best thing since the prequel it's like oh that could be considered reasonable too fuck best thing since return of the jet well the ewoks and some of the goofies best thing since empire yeah there you go now they look crazy didn't like star wars but when they see and or which apparently is nothing like star wars what do you mean apparently what do you mean apparently it's nothing like star is he saying he's drawing up from the court i think he's yeah i think he's appealing to the tonic you were saying he's not a fan fan of star wars so which therefore means it is apparently not star wars i don't i don't understand i don't get it what's the through line they can like that because it's nothing like star wars it all makes sense no it all really does not and or is written and directed by people who don't like star wars or people who don't like star wars i can you pull it's just funny right because if he was here right now i'd be like but i like empire and and or now what what happens to me i you which way western man i mean like what he's gonna pick one kind of both you know seems like he's afraid of this as well this conclusion that he's reached he's like yeah nailed it there based on a quote five no five words of a quote and then he said he looked up Wikipedia and go back to it but uh there was like three pieces of quote and two of them weren't even quote there was speculation on what the quote meant and then the other piece was like he also said this before about this it's like it's barely anything you've got like barely anything from donnie kill right it was like it was a conclusion you already drew and then you found one reference that for some reason you thought like that's the thing um had a way with it and i'm not trying to be mean but it's like i guess it it's not as fun if you just said i don't like and or if you just if you just say that it's like well i wanted to i wanted to mean more than that i wanted to go further than that i mean there's a part of me that wonders does he mean he hasn't seen it with the whole apparently line um because if he hasn't even right because if he hasn't seen it and he's making these very strong statements about it then you'd be a fucking fool to do that well i mean i because references is like you need you need examples of what you're talking about in the show that you can point to because like being really vague is not helpful especially if you're talking to people who like it like what specifically would you be referring to in terms of it being like you had the characters you stripped them bare of who they were and then you inserted the traits that you wanted to fit your like like whatever your perspective on the world is or your agenda as a writer like what do you have as a point of reference to support that or are you just going to throw it out there because again it's just perplexing to somebody who likes it which presumably is somebody you're trying to appeal to right like people who like it because people who don't like it they already agree with you anyway right i think he must know this isn't said dear he basically just said like you already like it because you're not a fan of star wars like right which again is really that's really lame listen if you want to like and or that's fine thank you but you're not a star wars fan not taking that away from anybody please enjoy the show enjoy and or where's that big old butt come on give us that butt it was a show so but do it but call yourselves and or oh he said he said but so fast oh yeah he was a call it's like he said that was the fastest but call i've ever heard you know do you think he was thinking about that saying like nothing means anything before the win but see he was like gotta get out real quick yeah like you just thinking about you don't want that butt to be really strong you gotta be like you gotta you gotta soften it dampen it up a little bit but call yourselves the and or fans because apparently you're not star wars fans you like and or you're not a star wars fan that are pretty funny sort of sense it's isn't it when you trip away a lot of it if you like and or that's okay but don't call yourself a star wars fan being a star wars fan if you like and or you can't like all of it though one of my what am i what does that make me well what what does he say to somebody who it's just like yeah i like Dan or he's like really and then just did like sort of a star wars trivia quiz and they got 100 right well you know calling yourself an and or fan you must have gotten all of that from and or i guess somehow like how do you how does he square away somebody who like earnestly passionately likes um basically everything from star wars including and or like they're not even gone mad even the kind of person who likes to sequel somehow but they also like and or you know i think he's um he's using the word apparently a lot i think to avoid it sounding like it's his perspective he's basically saying like this is just the result of the tony gilroy quote oh so some nice weasel words then well i'd be curious to ask him is like do you believe i am not a star wars fan if i consider myself a fan of and or no i'm just saying apparently i'm just using purely deductive logic here i it's not up to me really i just look at the facts and i make my assessment and i mean the cards fall where they may it's just it's uh it's a problem when he gets a bit trigger happy with apparently because when he's describing like whether or not it's good or not he's like well apparently it's not a very good show you're just like the kid well apparently it's not a very good show and apparently uh you can't like them both as far as i know i just think it'd be really funny if he hadn't even seen a single frame of it and he's just purely speculating on all of this stuff this is a man you know what i like it this man this man's a gambler all right this man likes to take risks all right this he's a risk taker this man right here he's willing to he's willing to just to take that risk it's probably you know he throws caution to the wind he something gets into his head and he goes for it he doesn't pittle around with details and facts and information that he doesn't go to wukipedia he's this this ain't a wukipedia watcher looker this man is balls to the wall high octane peddle to the metal opinion assertion having this is this is a proper youtuber right here this is the 21st century we don't have the time to fuck around well cathleen kennedy i don't think i just do oh that's a great quote i think yeah it's also every time you pause it it looks like his face is realizing that his mouth is speaking bullshit he always looks slightly surprised and perplexed and confused by what he's just said every time he just free word like you didn't even know what the point of this video was when he started the camera seems to be pissing him off that's my impression though what one thing i'll say it's a very it's a good camera he has a good camera and a good mic which is far more than i could say about a lot of people who sit yeah you know what i'm going to say thank you to the guy who made this video for that i appreciate that thank you what people don't know past that you've managed to do with your 781 sub channel what movie bob could not do in thousands of subs and years of patreon you're gonna say thousands of years thousands of years probably yeah move i can believe that movie bob is some primordial force like some warhammer chaos he's like the it clown he's he's just the negative force of the universe be a huge andor friend be the biggest andor fan you can be okay all right all right i'm gonna enjoy star wars all right great oh we do that too i'm am i asking mark yes what is what does he think star wars is i want to know what his starting premise is like normally pro forma argument you begin with let's say my my thesis is people who like and or don't like star wars you begin by saying this is what star wars is to my conception this is how i believe it is constituted this is what makes it up this is what and or falls short of this is why therefore the people who like and or cannot be said to be star wars fans i want to know what he thinks star wars is supposed to be to begin with before he goes around saying that people who like and or are not star wars fans i mean the problem is doing all that stuff that you're talking about platoon that would require like research and scripting and time and effort and editing and it's like why do you all that when you can just sit in front of your webcam for five minutes and just yeah as we know he would defeat himself if he did the research to make that argument by his own argument he would not be a fan so he can't do it you can see how this video came to be right he saw that quote and was like ah he's not even a fan of star wars so no wonder people who like and or like think it's so good when star wars fans don't because and or is not even star wars maybe i was hearing more just a curiosity like what's his like uh is upload rate you know is uh is he putting out like several videos a day or is it pretty uh i don't know i don't know i know that the seven minute three second video took him seven minutes and three seconds to make because i'm just well there was a tiny bit of editing there where rags were he putting that cool yeah that must be oh yeah that's true that and also that wasn't even a screenshot he manually typed that all in yeah that was that is his create that is his artistic format he did and he highlighted the relevant sections that's true that's uh the man cares this is a no fade transitions or anything no no little uh no little about three videos for a week in my style all right you know that's you know that's a pretty you know decent that's a good upload schedule you know three weeks and a couple uh couple uh you know one every couple days you know on the seventh day he rests and but hey let the uh let other people comment let the real star wars star wars fans comment and let me know what let real star wars fans comment okay so if you disagree with me don't comment on my yeah you agree with me what's interesting is that there is a um there's a comment here that he is loved that says star wars ended after return of the jedi anything made afterwards constitutes leaching off of the original six movies careful with that wait what yeah you caught it you caught it let's check our let's check our thinking on this one generally wait i don't know what that means i don't know what that means but wait maybe maybe there was three other movies that were made before the lucus we just don't know the lucus film vaults only real star wars fans know about those other three movies only the ot is good all six of them first fans think i'm off the mark or you guys are uh are you with them are you with them in the comments are you with them those traitors do we learn nothing from and or gosh subscribers you guys are awesome i tell you that every time because i mean it thank you thank you thank you i'm not a subscriber but i'm you know i'll see you guys in the next video so loud i love it all right so it's safe to say there wasn't a huge amount of arguments in that one nope but he made a follow-up one oh god now now he's going to give us this is the real meat of the sandwich more this one's called my case against and or why it's not true star wars nice all of you are like oh he's not going to give arguments he's like no he will and you are going to be read in the face when you realize that maybe you'll be concluding oh maybe and or isn't star wars my body is ready my pizza crackers are prepared as you can tell time has passed because his beard has grown out a little there and he has he's got a different shirt on oh his tortoise has gone no it disappeared his tortoise it went to another time in place the tortoise is traveled through space and the universe and now it's having an adventure oh where did it go i would say it is time for us to understand the argument now because he's that was that seven minutes was him presenting the sort of the title of the essay so to speak this is the essay okay this is the definitive ooh why and or isn't star wars video let's get into it that's uh all right oh no he changed it what happened to the boy he's a change man molly he's a old opening there so lures it it's better because it's quieter yeah just quicker i think hey everybody see hello hi steve um since the last video i made about asoka i brought up and or again okay and i've made some other and or videos yeah we've seen one of them and i've got a lot of people bad saying that and or is star wars the matter of fact they're saying and or is the best thing since um the empire strikes back so what i think is happening with and or which is inevitably just that's what that was always going to happen is the people who didn't watch it stop talking about it and stop raising criticism of it because they're less and less familiar with it you know what i mean it's like sequels we'll remember why they're so shit but people who don't like and or i'll speak to them who kind of didn't watch it aren't going to bother like in the average conversation to be like no and or shit they're gonna be like yeah and or but the people who like and or they will raise it every time it's mentioned and or is really good and or is really great and so if you casually in the middle of a video like oh that mandalorian season three was bad um yeah which you know that means we've gotten duds all around with that and or and then someone comes to me like whoa whoa whoa and or and or wasn't it you know and so eventually if you're someone who thinks and or is shit you will get a lot of pushback just randomly and you just be like what is going on why people being so nice about and or and it's like well maybe check it out i mean i mean drinker have been trying to push it on as and gary for forever of my basic one day no break one day i say nay nay oh my nay nay i i say and or make and and rogue one mm-hmm are not true star wars okay now i have two points that i think make my case and we'll prove beyond a shadow i was hoping we get more than i thought we were gonna get more than two but that's all right the amount of points we have is how good the points are guys stop poisoning the well this is disgusting behavior maybe within the point there will be like five supporting points you know what i mean like first point they can have points they're like because one only true star wars fans would would understand what this is and it's not star wars and two and three hours so there i mean exactly i nailed it following basic logical structure and argumentation it is while not a sound argument a valid one so that is something we are progressing towards a good video without my piece that and or is not true star wars just just to refresh my memory in the last video was the claim that and or was not true star wars or the and or wasn't star wars full star it wasn't true star wars is i think it was almost if not the direct the exact implication so so the last one was cool why isn't real star wars this was right so true star wars these are different he's evolving is is thinking you see there might be a subtle difference that i'm not keen on but i'm sure he's gonna explain it i'm sure why would you make a 17 minute video that doesn't explain it for the and or fans that are watching this hello hello i'm not trying to stir up trouble i'm not trying to make some uh clicks baby you got trouble here buddy call me dr trouble i got a prescription for some arguments i'll be honest if someone said could i convince you that and or is not true star wars i'd be like mmm i'll give a shot i'll see if you can maybe i doubt it no it's not been unknown right for us to do these e-faps and the the guy who's getting the video made about him will hear about it and will come on i i would genuinely be interested to have this guy on just show absolutely i would just fully recommend and or assuming he doesn't see it maybe he has i mean he's made this video surely he has that would be like the that would be the that would be the kicker here so it is big no way apparently he's in the comments is he oh nice hello hey he's not great video this video's had an excellent start yeah he said he's got two points yeah i'm excited mauler you and i both know that if every video we covered had two good points it would already raise to like top 10 it would be in top 10 territory it would be in top 10 territory unironically yes it would get clicks and likes and and watches and stuff i'm not doing that okay i'm simply trying to express why i don't see and or and rogue one as star wars all right it's a bit of a rollback well i don't see that people are liking on fans of star wars let's not forget that one yeah that was another thing what was said that's true other than it being by disney everything disney puts out so far has just been garbage so i'm endorsed but i guess that's what we're here to hey listen if you say in mandor season one and two are also garbage i'm with this guy okay finally setting that aside i'm making the case as to why and or and rogue one are not star wars oh and rogue one i i'm sorry i'm a little bit frustrated there because it sounded before was much more can we what did he just say like 15 seconds ago wasn't it like i'm just saying like in my opinion you know it's just like my perspective and now we've just sort of we're like all already back to like a more definitive kind of a claim yeah man he's a bold person i mean for you to afford a boost yeah clumsy language use i suppose but yeah yeah we're going to get comments and i love to hear your guys comments about this oh good love a good debate we came to the right i'm gonna say i've got a feeling you're gonna get a lot more comments after the c5 episode hey constructive comments everyone okay constructive comments he's a nice yes we learned that in the last episode of eve was it the last one the constructive criticism thing the criticism guy all criticism should not be negative yeah he's he said no negative except what it's really shit movies hitler test but you know so after you watch this video please feel free to leave comments i will try to respond to as many as possible it's a spirit i'd appreciate it if we can keep them all on come on get to the two point we got it we're getting there good debate stop teasing us good point you can't rush good points i feel the way i feel and you can tell me the way you feel sweet in the last video didn't say that he wanted real star wars fans to comment because he was tired of so did he not receive enough of those um i don't know the well he said that the reason he's making this one is because on his asoka video i think people were annoyed at him saying that and all was not real stars let's go point number one yes now i've made this point in the last video that i know no no no okay made i'll put a is the tody gill right quote box thing up there to uh check that video out oh no apparently you're from video it's regarding acolyte okay star wars i think he's probably right about that as well the acolyte looks like it'll be shit but yeah trilogy star wars is a timeless story from the moment it came out in theaters till this very second you can watch any of those episodes four five or six and oh pull prequel fans left out in the cult fans they resonate with everyone i mean i don't i don't want to nitpick but sure most people sure yeah yeah everyone loves these stories george lucas took the best i could see wait i can see where he's going to go with this one as well it's kind of like if you're gonna say the ot but i didn't love us so i didn't love and or it's that proves that it's not timeless classic it can't be timeless mythology and religion and storytelling and he put it all together and he distilled it down into dare i say the perfect three stories okay so i like the ot a lot but all three of them perfect i don't know about that the thing is as well like if his argument is just going to be like well and or doesn't cover the same breadth of um you know intellectual universal themes that the ot covered like you can make that argument but then it's not designed to do that it's it's exploring a specific facet of the star wars universe it's not trying to be this this grand epic that encompasses everything you know it's seen from the eyes of like a limited group of characters doing a very specific task like you're you're very much made to feel like these are small pieces of a much larger puzzle and i'm like i'm wondering if that's where he's gone but i'm almost holding off in terms of like i'm tempted to see what like what he's going to say about and or being different and why that's bad the thing about it is he's going to try and make the argument that it's like really clunky contemporary political allegory shoved into the tv show if he creates a sort of way to categorize that excludes basically all of disney stuff but includes the ot i think that'll mostly be fine with a lot of people listening but it's the prequels there going to be a catching point there because he's not including them i'm assuming when a lot of people who don't like disney stuff love the prequels i don't think it's going to be a what i would call an intuitive like sort of agreeable argument you gotta be careful you gotta side step around them even uh let's even we have to be careful what we mean to the prequels is there a quite beloved there's there's there's nothing today that didn't happen then there's nothing then it doesn't happen today you can watch this in a hundred years i mean i guess he means like messages or oh right like the fundamental appeal of a uh like growing up yeah yeah yeah yeah the star wars appeals the ot appeals is a story more fundamentally than any other star wars story probably i don't want to say definitively but probably and it still will be a great story unfortunately we are now getting stories that people want to make for a modern audience um and when you make it for an audience like that you now take a modern or uh i mean i that's why i didn't pause it but like go on you now take away the timeless aspect it is no longer timeless it is now stuck in a box this is an argument i could see i'm gonna need references though i need to know why yeah the thing is like his his basic premise of like how disney have handled star wars isn't wrong there but i think he's to give a great example these shows which is already kind of like we're talking and or so let's not talk about these shows let's talk about and or specifically because like i don't want them all lumped together when we're having this conversation like specifically and or um so we need references to and or but yeah to take what he just said and apply it somewhere i think it actually works would be someone like ryan johnson he can't resist having very up-to-date political social discussions in his films and they age it like horrifyingly uh glass onion especially is going to be a film if you watch it in 10 years you'll be like wow this is a time capsule this is fucking look at all these references to shit that i completely forgot about um you get that with like particular music or trends i saw a thread discussing it in mcu projects like the amount of times they do do you remember um black panther where they did the what are those meme and people i don't even know if people know that's that meme i don't know was that a vine meme was that even is that newer than that i don't even i'm pretty sure that name was already old when the film like did it as well yeah i feel like it was pretty well it would be yeah so you think how long it takes to get films made yeah memes date in like 15 minutes yeah and so if you appeal more to fundamental values and experiences you age really well so i'm on board but i mean i would i know which i would put and or and it wouldn't be the ages badly camp does and or appeal to like fundamental sort of aspects of human nature absolutely temporary references you know yeah it's you know a plucky band of rebels joining together to rise up against the evil empire and try to overthrow them like it's pretty universal stuff yeah i mean i will say and or's appeal probably is more intellectual whereas the ot is more sort of intuitive eternal truth so the ot focuses a huge amount on the importance of family loyalty trust and the inevitable triumph of goodness over evil basically these are sort of like pre-to-natural moral values and it's incredibly universal for that reason it doesn't really try to do too much to layer on top of that you know extensive amounts of world building save like how the empire works and things like that whereas and or is more concerned with the intellectual propositions of well empires rise and empires fall how are these things constituted in the real world and it's you know it still touches on very timeless themes the prison sequence is still the one that stands out to me because that's almost it's one of the perfect encapsulations of sort of jeremy bentham and the um the panopticon sort of penal philosophy um that you can probably find on the screen and you know it actually invokes fuko's response to bentham as well when andal is basically shouting no one's listening that's fuko is saying that you know no one in the panopticon is a participant in conversation that way everyone is heard um that that's still a universal theme but it's on a more maybe sort of cerebral level than the ot is which might make it seem a bit less approachable universal but i would still argue that it is a very universal issue i think part of his gripe seems to stem from like and or isn't a space opera in the same way that the star wars ot was it's more of like a political espionage thriller set against the star wars framework that's the difference and like kind of going back to what you say it doesn't deliver in the big grandiose emotional moments of you know family tragedies and betrayals and and uh epic adventures and stuff it's not that same style uh and it's almost like you can't reconcile the idea that you can do a thriller a kind of political action thriller set in the star wars universe and still have it be part of star wars it will work if it's well written but it's like you can't compute that idea and i would even say it um it's got a place to fit in it's like when we join luke in the star wars universe the rebel alliance is going strong it's there it's been doing different it's like we've come into it uh you know second act almost um meanwhile like andor is trying to argue like this is how it started this is all the individual players that push the pieces that made eventually lead into actual wars like huge wars and that that place has been waiting to be you know utilized and i'm really glad they did it you're bringing in modern day politics example political agendas what identity politics well there really wasn't an andor i don't think there was any identity politics an andor any other thing that might be going on in society today and you're trying to make that your story excuse me that's not going to work 100 years from now people aren't going to they're going to look back on this and go wow those guys were dumb why nor did they even put that in there what are you i would cause it to you like as long as they had some knowledge of star wars like if they'd seen the ot they could probably watch andor and get a pretty good insight into into how they all started we keep referring to this nebulous thing that happens in and i don't know what it is what is it can you give me a character give me a scene give me a message or one example just tell me what it is nobody's going to care about a political agenda well this this is a great argument as well because like you're appealing to 100 years from now so like there's no way to even just prove what you're even claiming like well we'll just give it a sec we'll wait and see if it's still viable in 100 years we can test this argument who's going to care about identity politics no one's going to care about what it you know maybe i mean this is the thing i don't know it's not like the probably stories you can tell that relate to identity well you know what actually though muller explain yourself glass onion will age badly how can you verify that when that's in the future shit well um i'm going to go buy everything else that came before it the references things of its time in a very superficial and substanceless way aging horribly bad because we look back at it watch them go oh i forgot that was in there yeah um i expect that to be the future for glass onion but you're right i can only do a prediction i can't know it'll happen but i think that film's already cringe the idea that it'll be cringe in future the among us reference that's true among us is in the did that reference yeah but that's time that's a timeless that's time yeah among us is timeless just to be clear um queer coding characters who i mean i it's okay so for anyone who doesn't know queer coded means that they're not overtly but they definitely seem as though they would be the thing and that will date the story that will date the story um what what i i'm lost 100 years from now this is very confused about yeah who the queer characters in they don't reproduce it's pretty obvious mon mothma lesbian sister no yeah yeah oh yeah and then uh what was the name of the she was also with the uh with the the rebel group uh i can't remember her name oh yeah i know what you mean is that she was like undercover with uh with the empire when they had to do the raid on the the base uh no she wasn't undercover with the empire um she was with the group it was the uh oh yeah no she was in the base during the mission that's right yeah it was those characters because i had a relationship lesbians isn't exactly like some kind of newfangled you know i don't even understand it's like uh that's pretty political it's like what people who love each other they bear there's barely any attention given to the fact that they're but why not who cares mm-hmm like it's not it's not done in some like clunky as fuck where it's just two girls who like each other a hell of a lot who are trying to do really important and high stakes missions one of them is more about the mission the other one is clearly interested in maybe starting a life mm-hmm this is all modern-day jargon that should not be in a timeless story uh it's um it's always it's interesting to sort of see as well the similarities in people who have what i'm presuming are this guy's political persuasion and people on what he would conceive of is the opposite political persuasion and how they basically say exactly the same thing as each other without realizing that they are agreeing with the enemy or they come at it from a very different perspective but they both read these weird little messages in so i was looking up like just as he was speaking um to try and find that this evidence of yeah queer coded characters which he says are in there but can't really provide the evidence buzzfeeds countertake is that andor's lack of queerness undermines its entire message so like somewhere in between those two positions is probably the truth which is that the yeah there's a couple of characters in there you can read as being romantically attached that's kind of it and it doesn't date the production because you know gay people are as old as time well that yeah i mean uh this is what's awkward about it's like lesbian is not a new thing that's that's quite old i bring you more examples okay uh okay well more he said more he's giving us more and find that there was even one and there there are several articles from bounding in the comics which i will link down below okay here is one of them yeah all right andor actress fiona shore made it abundantly clear that the upcoming star wars series will be a political commentary on donald trump rather than his star wars adventure that's the thing is that's a fucking actress she didn't rate it well and this is cringe right for the record this is cringe but if you watch and or where is this well yeah like if you never heard anybody make this comparison at all would you watch him you're like ah i see this is a to give them because i don't give a fuck what the actors have to say about this actors are dumb as fuck for the most part and they say whatever they think will make them more popular when i i'd want to argue as well like uh they do this with good movies all the time they'll say like uh they'll they'll go back to like classics and be like did you know that was all actually about this brand new thing that i want it to be about you're like oh yeah i don't agree they're like oh okay well fuck you it is even if creators say it you're like no that's fine you have that's i think it was the actress who played dedra mirror the the imperial security bureau officer did a quote as well which was roundly sort of picked up on before the show uh aired when she was saying it was something along the lines of you know this character is is a strong woman who is in many ways more competent than the men and everyone's immediate response was oh god girl boss character and then she appears on screen and she's a Nazi and then so it's not doesn't really matter does it she's very competent she's also evil and there are competent female villains that's a good thing she does fuck up here and there but uh she the right things have in the right ways and she's desperately trying to climb that empire ladder be interesting to see that's that's who you're talking about right the blonde lady yeah that's the one remember here in the last episode getting terrified by the trembling armies of the resistance it's like oh lots of lots of interesting things behind every behind every powerful gerbils is a strong arrian woman so i guess this individual says that the uh current and or show is a reflection by the the animated stuff and the sparkles behind the text is not it don't don't do that i don't think it's fantastic it adds flavor rags it definitely adds flavor it's like adding crackers to a pizza it's like adding crackers to pizza yeah you know what's great though is like what he's reading out is completely different than what he's putting on the screen and or actress fiona shaw made it abundantly clear that the upcoming star where series will be a political commentary yeah so like now listen to what he says okay on the trumpian world and how tony gillray wrote sure i feel like i had one to tilt by the way i despise this form of video making where you say things that are different than what's on screen is drink i just pointed out it fucking kills me because i'm like do you want me to read it and then let you talk or listen to you or like what what's more important if assuming i only watch your video once which by the way is more than most people on earth will do uh which uh which thought shall i attach my attention to shaw who plays a character named marva spoke with empire about the upcoming series telling them tony gillray has written a great surrelicious take on the trumpian world i'm sorry i completely fucked up i was just making or spreading scandalous claims about someone with the intention of damaging their reputation so this is just the result of people on earth being you know they're so subsumed by the the current culturally things that whatever they're currently in they'll try and argue it's about that to get people like who or other people being like so it seems like yeah despite the despite the trump references it seems to be a really good show because i'm starting it's unlocking memories for me because i think that we heard about this too before we'd seen and or is like like like great yellow flags are being raised and it's more so because it'll mean that they'll have really just they'll have common tree that is not subtle at all and cringe and you know there's a lot of things are doing just like yeah great but then you watch it and you're like oh wait i didn't see where was this and if they were like couldn't you tell that part of gas he's trump i'd be like what yeah yeah i really didn't see it i know i know most of you guys are not familiar with star trek but you know what the federation is in star trek it's the very nice utopian like um governing body for all of starfleet they're the guys who go out to explore the universe great stuff they've always been portrayed in a positive light throughout star trek history and when Picard when Picard came along this this is an example of bad writing where they suddenly had to deal with a refugee crisis and they turned into a bunch of xenophobic fascists who didn't want to have to deal with it they were extremely suspicious of anyone who was outside of their borders that was a clumsy shitty allegory for you know current day refugee problems at the southern border in america but that's not what you're dealing with in andor it's not awkward like that and it doesn't intrude upon the story the story feels natural and developed as it should based on the star wars lore that we have and where the universe is at at that point in time i'm inclined to agree when you take something that currently exists in the storyline add to it but completely change it in order to match something that you want to talk about feels disrespectful well and just shit but you know uh there was there was no changes to make the empire a bad guy in andor that was uh that's already a thing a skirless story about trump now so you have any like in like show references not what people said in the interview i want i want to know references in the show what would he do if uh mark hamill said the ot is really about trump and then someone says in response trump wasn't even fucking what he mean he's like no it is in retrospect about trump what would you do with that to star wars ot become shit or do you just or do you disagree slash disregard the take yeah you just be like that's retarded this is telling us that they're taking modern day politics and they're using the modern day politics as the bad guys it's not it's it's telling you that the actress is doing exactly what you're doing which is to read your own uh political opinions or political opponents opinions into the show that you're watching it's really easy to do precisely because and or doesn't actually preach political perspectives at you i could for example say well the imperial security bureau represents the risks of untrammeled intelligence gathering on behalf of a private state nexus and mon mothma who is literally a republican is a brave right wing campaigner against the state's accumulation of your private personal data i could make that allegory oh that's true that if i wanted to but and or isn't actually telling me that that's what it's doing that it's allowing me to say well you know if i want to apply my own imagination this is the lesson i can derive from the show it's not the show telling me what the lesson i'm supposed to take from it is i think part of guys isn't trump he's hitler and the and or is Churchill hmm if you think about it it kind of makes sense all of it uh the place he came from that's britain um friends there they're all uh they're all uh european countries still represent that's really pretty neat the empire trump trump and conservatives conservatives in these people's eyes are the empire that was never we talked about the show please i thought that's what he meant what he was going to give us points not like you know like general political related it's just talking about weird like like people talking like in interviews about shit and like sort of vague political like can we talk about the show why is the show bad tell me why the show is bad well it sounded like his position isn't that it's bad it's just that it's it's filled with modern what politics do they talk about yeah because an actress in an interview said something yeah it has to take it's a six minute video yeah okay there was no one government or or one entity that was taking the place for the empire the empire is just evil evil i think evil is not a new concept we've had evil ever since you know yeah so andor is a timeless story right is it not a bit of an upgrade to have them be a little more complicated than evil yeah because generally it's not like oh they're just just black and white evil and good it's that simple people are just evil they're just devils and demonic and it's as simple as that living control by satan control by satan this is the emperor and i i guess he's he's he's pretty evil but you know but like generally there's all of the little cogs of the machine along the way are not just evil i just love that there's gonna be people at every level who are just doing their job day after day like either because they're trying to make money or they're they're obliged to do it they've been crested to service there's all kinds of things you know the angle of people like isn't Cyril when we first meet him he's like interested in upholding law he's like it should be yeah that that's important yeah it has nothing to do with rebellion and empire it's just someone killed these two guys and i need to figure out who the hell did it i can't let them escape justice i can't imagine it's there's nothing political about it really i can't imagine being presented with that and then the reaction being i prefer it when the empire just evil man i don't like this whole like oh he's he's kind of a person with you know strong values that believes in the rule of law fuck that making evil him horns yeah like dark people decided to have a fight we've had evil so none of this is new and then we have another article from bounding into comics okay where uh what are your thoughts tonigil Roy himself says that he said he believes the man mothma character uh is kind of like a Nancy Pelosi what does he mean by that oh her daughter and an arranged marriage to obtain funds for a rebellion again okay like that could mean a million things i don't see it myself if that's his inspiration okay i guess even if even if it was like like is what like again can we just have references like specifically to the show itself and what happens in the show rather than what somebody said in an interview and well any if you're gonna bring it please tell me what he means by it this can't be as simple as he's going to be more to it than that line right he mentions Nancy Pelosi therefore i would be i would be willing to put money on him referring to Nancy Pelosi as you know incredibly shrewd almost to the point of amoral political operator someone who is incredibly good at what they do but what they do is kind of complex and morally nuanced and occasionally devious in servers of a higher cause um that's that would be my sort of read into the analogy of like the Nancy Pelosi as my mothma character Nancy Pelosi was a very shrewd political operator as my mothma is um has to you know orchestrate political maneuverings in the senate as my mothma does so she's quite a useful character archetype i suppose you can take inspiration from that that's not to say that he thinks Nancy Pelosi is you know god's daughter or that you know she's this moral uh paragon of virtue when you're not crazy if the quote continues uh Nancy Pelosi is the greatest person of all time i love her to pieces and that's why i made my mothma the best person ever and said that that's who that is wouldn't make and or a bad show it would make Gilroy cringe that's all that means again why are you bringing you want the four do you want the four quote of that Nancy Pelosi thing um do it anyone who follows the canon she's sort of a Nancy Pelosi character isn't she she's kind of trying to do good or whatever she's trying to do and she's losing i mean i don't know she's a powerful presence in the senate but she's facing defeat after defeat after defeat as the empire is taking over here she's always presented as very proper and sober and perfectly put together all the time in canon and it just seemed like that was such a perfect opportunity to say well what's really going on behind here it was really it was very exciting to take a sort of still portrait of someone and throw it away and build a real life behind it well the only thing that's going to be disagreeable for people in there is whether or not you believe Nancy Pelosi is trying to do good but that's you know for everyone to fight over i think the more interesting part of what that quote is is just the way a person is presented at the higher echelons of politics and what's going on in their life beneath it yeah what the real life is going on yeah behind the scenes when the cameras are not cool figures from today and trying to connect them to a character that has absolutely nothing to do with any of this i mean you can easily connect any political leaders to other political leaders there's going to be something there but like again tell me how this made and or shit references in the show again like can you can you elaborate on how this like damaged the story like the integrity of the story the only reason you do this is so you can connect them to modern day politics no try to get no no if you're making a science if you're making us connect them to modern politics it's to connect them to modern politics so it's a nice circular kind of a one of logic i mean the like it's sort of thing you can draft but you know but how effective is it if nobody knows anything about modern politics after watching and or do you understand what i'm saying like if they would if you have a you know fucking 15 year old who knows nothing about us politics in any way watches and or in what way does it push them to any particular place don't be authoritarian yeah do you know what i mean like it's like come on dude what i mean tonic i'm not even like left or right at that point it's just you know it's not don't be authoritarian pretty much Tony Gilroy a consulting producer on House of Cards and um Frank Underwood is of course a Democrat and Frank Underwood doesn't exactly come out of that show particularly well no he didn't get to what extent can you really read uh um Tony Gilroy's political opinions into the fact that well here he's being blamed for associating a prominent Democrat with a hero figure in Star Wars in House of Cards is he to bleep to be blamed for associating a a nasty nefarious evil fictional Democrat with villainy i mean like he's he's what he's doing is he's taking inspiration and applying it to his art form as opposed to propagandizing which seems to be the charge level against him buddy on the left to come over and watch the show they want this show to be one big right-leaning bash based on two quotes and they they can nothing from the show nothing from the show actually present in the show oh yeah this is one of one of your two just definitive pieces of like proof that this show was not Star Wars say well that bingo car is probably empty huh all for two yeah how how's your checklist going it's going it's going well enough however you choose to arrange the words yeah that's good that's good that's good what do you get if you win um i think a vague sense of of crushing disappointment that critics about or so predictable a little bit that reminds me of trump oh that reminds me of all those right wingers yeah what the you know the show you need a shit on for that it's the boys not and or oh tell us shows that no one fucking talks about anymore shows that a hyper cringe and overflated just because the edgy whoa did anyone see the boys season three drinker do you see that yet yeah i got through pretty much all of it i think i had like one or two episodes left or something did you feel anything no i mean i laughed a couple of times i guess there you go yeah they're evil those people are horrible yes we are we are the rebels we are the rebels so is it safe to assume he hasn't actually seen nandal then i don't i don't you see here's the thing like surely he has but it doesn't sound like he has it doesn't sound like he has because you feel like if he had he would just be able to like it wouldn't even be a matter of deliberately doing it he would just be drawing references to the show yeah like automatically he'd be like like that stupid thing with the guy who did the thing like he'd be saying that you'd be appealing specifically to like moments that happen in the show or characters and their motivations you wouldn't be just strictly referring to like meta information none of this should be in a story like star wars none of what references to modern politics none of what people in interviews saying that you like without any references to the actual substance of the story if well the prequels doesn't work because he didn't seem to consider them stars but if someone if it was a quote from whoever that said palpatine in the prequels is supposed to be a reflection of bush how does this go away like what george lucas has said exactly there is a lot of things that lucas said about it yeah yeah george lucas made specific like references to real world events and how they like influence the way that that story took shape so like what about that as well platoon was mentioned earlier right vietnam was an inspiration is that okay or is it not are we allowed to do that or is that you know he took heavy inspiration as well from gibbons decline and fall of the roman empire and the prequels are sort of an attempt to take you know contemporary concerns and map them on to the gradual decline of the roman republic and then present that in a brand new sort of totally separate fictional realm in star wars but it's still taking inspiration from past and present the trick to making it non allegorical though is that you try and identify in say modern political conditions what the timeless causes of those things happen to be like this is not the first time empires have risen or fallen you look at the mechanisms that underpin that what does it say about us sort of universally throughout our entire history as a species and a social species of that you take the universal aspects of that and you simply use the modern political thing as kind of momentary inspiration to inform the structure of your story that doesn't make it allegorical that just makes it inspired or innovative depending on how you choose to interpret it i'm now just thinking about what what about what about like a historical drama like a drama that is based on historical events is that data it's a data that's like based in the medieval era or like the viking era you know or you know ancient uh roam or grease pretty clear that this character was based off of charles the 16th which is not much means it's not a very timeless story because it's inspired by i mean it feels like it's got to be more complicated than that completely out of place out of place 100 percent so no modern audience garbage in a timeless story that is point one that is why are we working forwards or backwards when we talk about what makes the story timeless i don't know what this guy i mean i i will say i'm unconvinced by your arguments that this because i have a feeling if one of two that it is not star wars based on the things that you've said i bet if we went back to some of them they're shakespeare plays that there might be a lot of references to modern politics that we just don't quite think of or are aware of today vents going on characters who might be in charge praising of certain monarchs things of that nature i'm pretty sure that those stories have a are going to have a decent amount of references to and the fifth is actually crap because it's very firmly dated around the time period of Henry the fifth yeah so i just mentioned tetris it's like yeah that's there's plenty in there for the era it takes place in the ussr and stuff like that and arguably a lot of messaging about what is right and what is wrong when it comes to the clashing of cultures and that one that's okay because we all agree on it when it comes to like the setting it was something that platoon was talking about before like if you were to like what i would say at the core of and or in terms of the characters is you've got a bunch of different people who we have like you know a clearly defined like traits or goals that they have and it's like how do people react when placed in like a really stressful situation and then you get to see the different ways that people maneuver through that like that's much more of an appeal to like individuals right and like character motivations or like the things that drive people and like to me that that strikes me as like universal in the sense that you're exploring like the human experience like regardless of whatever the backdrop is or like whatever political sort of um uh influences that you'd want to attach to it like what like what is the story of like um i i'm just like what is this story if you're looking at the story of like luthan um and then of course you know like leading up to his big speech essentially about the nature of like how he sacrifices himself as a being like down to his very core uh in pursuit of the goal that he wants like how would this guy look at that and go ha see yeah that's like that's not a timeless story because um one of the actresses in the show said that it was about trump i mean ignore the cringe comments about what it is pay attention to what it is cut out the the because we've said this before but like it's it's rare to get commentary from actors that really improves the work and it happened once recently so i was looking at an interview people were sharing of um patty constantine talking about for series that he he really worked with what he learned when his mom was experiencing something similar to what for series goes through and he drew from that and that it's incredible like it's all about how much he wants to do for his family it's going to keep him going and that you know he would have that's how much it matters to him and that's what he's trying to channel and i think matt smith is there just being like yeah you know these characters have a lot and you're sitting there like ah like i don't need to if any of them had said like you know the series is actually commentary on modern trump is almost like it's appealing to those fundamentals uh but it's rare you get a lot of people who like the that that thing that was in like loads of my tfa videos right the the the character and actions from good ol gwendoline christie trying to talk about the character of phasma but there is no character so she can't and you feel bad for her she tried she tried her best yeah the other half of what she had to say was she's the first female villain and it was like oh shut the fuck up bro and or is not star first female villain was point two all right what's the point number two i believe is the biggest point let's do it all right break star wars favorite points into its most basic elements jar jar jar jar jar you have to eat all this a timeless story of good versus that's point one you already said this maybe he's gonna say something else where he's going with it you have the hero's journey of luke skywalker you have a great redemption story in han solo in him coming around you have all these other great things going on but the one thing okay all right one thing that separates star wars from from every other the animals yeah sci-fi show you could still be jaja i don't know we're still in could be jar jar jar jar jar i've not seen everything anything besides star wars oh here we go ding ding ding ding ding ding ding just go to your bingo sheet there yeah all right well yep okay cool so no real life you know what's funny is that the force as named of course doesn't turn up in like star trek or whatever but what telekinesis is like it's in a lot of stuff then you'd be like well no not not telekinesis is drawn from like the universe as though we're parts of it and that we have to like be in tune whatever it's like oh that's gotta be in plenty of fantasy shit come on as a mechanic it's not like some incredible unique thing thank you for a new hope like the force is used so sparingly in that movie yep you could really argue that like well to the point that one of the guides in the uh the one of the imperials is like oh that's some bullshit sorcery shit like that i real yeah it's the reason why i already know that i'm just gonna be like pissed off with this argument there are many many many many many many many people in the star wars world who just live their lives independent of like whatever's going on with the jedi or the seath or any of that stuff i'm like yeah maybe the force is there and it's present and it has some influence on their lives but like they don't they're not aware of it it's not that important to them like it's it's doesn't inform them just going to work and getting on with their daily lives and the notion that like that kind of story can't be told about like i guess you could say more um banal normal kind of uh circumstances situations or like people the idea that that is like necessarily precluded from a star wars story like i just don't like that yeah it's like incredibly limiting yeah it's like you've got to be one of these chosen few who has this like innate ability in order to like qualify for being a character that's got a worthwhile story to tell about them it yeah it's such bullshit that's almost really necessarily related to your role and so there are so many counters to this but one of the ones i'm curious about is he has mysteriously left out the prequels whenever he mentions like true real star wars prequels have more the force in them than the ot does yeah absolutely it's like drinker said the the force doesn't show up that much in uh in uh a new hope no why isn't the prequels like super charged star wars then gonna be more star wars than the ot is i mean that doesn't necessarily mean that the force you know like it's like it's not like you know the force is an exponential force on how star wars story well so yeah the reasonable conclusion must be that it has to simply be present and it's like okay so what about scenes in the ot what about scenes in the ot where it is not present well i mean i might go i might go cringe it's present everywhere it's everything it's everywhere all the time well then yeah we're fine it's in everything penetrates us or whatever everyone said i am the force and the forces with me remember yeah i do i remember the thing he said and what happens if uh what happens if a force just shows up in our and or season two does it therefore becomes it becomes becomes real it becomes it becomes star wars i love the idea that like all we needed was just one moment where luther you know pushes a pencil over with yes with star wars again like it's gotta be more complicated than that right like he just listed like han's arc as being you know quintessential star wars got nothing to do with a force i mean his mind this is the number one most important thing in all of star wars the force which is funny because i would have argued back at him no the other things you mentioned are much more fundamental to star wars than the force absolutely like the hero's journey in the form of luke like that's that's that's probably better the force the force in and of itself doesn't really mean anything it's how people perceive the force and use the force and react to it right like it's not that the force is present it's that luke chooses to be good right that he chooses the light side that he chooses you know like not to fall lights to come to essentially rage and hatred yeah like that you know like it's yeah but it's also as it's a stand in sort of representative for true faith as well which is that you know once it is established in the universe that the force is indeed a thing it makes characters interesting their interactions or non-interactions with the force are partly what defines their worldview so han's cynicism about it at first is eventually sort of coming to accept it in empire strikes back and onwards even without really understanding it and still being a little bit sort of cynical that his relationship with the force whether he uses it or not defines him as a character the same thing is true of and or we know in universe the force is a thing that exists it plays out in many different character relationships very very differently and there's nothing to say that it won't be invoked or referred to in and or if i think someone does say it may the force be with you at some point in and or i can't remember they do i think they do they do yeah it's yeah it still exists in the universe it's just that you're not seeing it all that often but as more you said you know you don't see it all that often in and you hope anyway it's not supposed to be this all powerful ever present thing it's a stand in for belief something you believe in a sense that the universe does have some sort of moral purpose and direction albeit one you have to fight to win um that's what makes interesting i would argue there's a good chance and or season two will have it because of the fact that someone probably was breathing down gilroy's neck being like why weren't they jedi in this why wouldn't there's a force in this we've we've checked out the general feedback and they're annoyed there wasn't as many laser blasts and colorful swords you'll be like uh lony sidles into the room and says hey i've got this cartoon character you might want to know can you put a soka into your show and make it so that she wins the day yeah now now now i'm starting to almost get annoyed because now that i'm now i'm thinking about like mando shit mando's got like the force and all that shit and it was fucking vacuous yeah i don't want that to be star wars it sucks that that star is where it's like what i know has a meaning behind it it's way more valuable than anything that's in mandalorian there was a particularly you know prominent uh person reviewing uh good old addoard he was annoyed that there wasn't more references to all of those things that instead more so like bricks and cements used to create buildings that's not very star wars where's my force users where's my jedi and it's like no you it's not fair that star wars should have to suffer this way the baby yoda like blocking out the what even was that like a a a capital ship crashing into an enormous empire facility blocking all of the fires it's like that star wars no oh then star war maybe it should fucking die don't make that star wars that sucks this is such a do rascinated view of what the universe is supposed to be the most interesting characters are the ones who don't have the force most of the time um because it's you know it implies weakness they have to rely on other things they have to rely on skills and ingenuity character i've i love the uh it's i'm not gonna defend it it's like feeling some great scene or anything but i just love the fact that uh boba fat sorry not just that's indicative jango fat has to take on obi one when he doesn't have the force you know that's that's tough a bounty hunter have to take on a fucking force user it's like you guys have magic it's not exactly fair well remember the one the one thing that we kind of enjoyed about it's uh obi one kanobi was uncle Owen just making a stand against me this is like you know just a guy with like he's always got his like a spear or something he's up against someone who can crush him with the force and he makes a stand anyway and he reflect back down and we just all thought yeah nice one uncle you're pretty good on you man but i hear how the rebels beat the empire was a lot of non-force users like working with i mean really like a few pivotal force users and in the end just one to like well two i guess we're in Darth Vader but you know like to to destroy the empire it's like a lot of people who don't have the force who aren't jedi like doing heroic things it's not like yeah like i don't this is this is such a strange thing to appeal to to determine what isn't isn't star wars i mean it's a little juvenile it's like the like there's no star wars as a as a as a whole universe so which is so rich and potential it can't be star wars if there's not a jedi involved we'll say when 99.9 percent of all the galaxy is non-force users and again a lot of people don't you can tell their stories the fundamental canon that we were given from the ot described that the force was basically dead in the universe like nobody's using it the jedi are dead their fire has gone out of the universe you my friend rule it is left that they're all religion that's his exact quote debater that people are not really aware of the force or it's they're not in communion with the force anymore the jedi don't really exist except that of course now disney keeps insisting that hundreds of them still do billions of i bought a six i think i think they were more jedi after order 66 yeah they showed up to the jedi temple and it was just like empty like they someone clued him in they pretended they got all the jedi for as a pr stunt they just forgot to take the younglings with them when they left tragically yes forgot but uh yeah i will say though this this argument as much as it could be considered strange it doesn't surprise me at all this is one i would expect to be on the bingo list along with lightsabers and uh jedi the force all right when you leave out the jedi and the sith and the force you no longer have star wars why have why why expanse i know you fucking don't okay this okay so this is going to be really lame is it is this is an argument actually like without the force the star wars is like any other sort of like science fiction story that's so wrong i think that's that's also shit on the expanse it's just i i just it's super fucking reductive like saying i mean the star trek is star wars if you just add the force like no these these are some very unique ip's in terms of the idea that and or is like the expanse what are you talking about dude like that's not true at all what makes star wars unique he even mentioned those other aspects but now he's like throwing them out if you don't have jedi and this this is the worst mindset because this is what gets us shit like mad lord season three book of oba fair look he's on a rank or he's writing a rank or that's star wars rank or his star wars you have battlestar galactica you have okay so now but how are those things the same they have the force and they're distinctly different there's got a lot of follow-up questions being prompted here it's like wait do you think they're bad do you think expanse and battlestar galactica are bad i don't i don't think it's appealing to i'm not sure why you keep saying bad actually he's saying it's not not not that it's bad it's just not star wars no that's his argument the draw you get is that the implication is less of them they are star wars without the force so star wars is like a package and it's like well as long as they're still it doesn't matter if they're good but what i'm trying to argue is that the logical way that he would have to result this is like yes of course they're not bad because i doubt he would ever take that position like expanse and battlestar galactica are bad therefore star wars without the force is like well a good sci-fi like yeah okay fine but it's not star wars like okay and what about like um what was it the the han solo show right the the solo movie there was virtually no force in that i think well yeah but there was the the blind guy in the you need to have references to things that people like like that aren't disney star wars so you've got to look at like games like was there any force uses like republic commando or i mean you did certainly don't play as one uh or the first star wars battlefront i think well that's actually but the thing is is that they're a force i'm trying to think of like is it but the problem is i know that there are plenty of characters who aren't force users like that everybody loves and you can yeah you can't have their adventure so here's um like that's from all over the place i was talking to rags about this the other day because i just reminded of it uh battlefront two campaign the original game um they could easily turn that into a really solid movie but probably a tv show be the is it the 501st you control um if and so the challenge now is could i make that and not have a single reference to the force like well it's going to be difficult because this is obviously like the the order 66 shit but you know just for sake of experiment in your own head if we dealt with several missions and some of them for example the uh reopening of certain factories on mustafar slash whatever separatist colonies by one of the leaders that escaped anakin's you know killing spree and he had an army of droids that he's reset up with a bunch of geon oceans and stuff it's like no force just clones empire against older remnants of the separatists who haven't been squashed out yet we did several missions like that several references to how they're having to deal with it it's like do you really think star wars fans are not going to eat the fuck up out of that like that if it was good don't need the force all right i'm okay i'm happy with the force it's good stuff but you don't need it and it's time we learn this okay it's something it was it was the thing that pissed me off the most about mandalorian the more progressed is i wanted a story that was divorced from like the main saga stuff with like jedi and sip and everything and just more like localized on small steak stories but they couldn't do it they just couldn't do it it had to be about like crazy like shattering shit going on oh shit and someone just mentioned i completely forgot vaders see you vaders in rogue one oh yes oh yeah but he invaded but remember rogue one's not star wars but it has to be so oh wait it has to be because he used the force he choked on the force oh no and then this end of the end yeah that is rip uh oh whoops my god do i fucking love that scene oh no that whole way and the blind guy with the forest you know that scene destroys the argument it's it's can't work but in congruence there are no jedi in rogue one you don't need jedi he said the sith and he said jedi and sith and the force yeah and the force so you only got two out of three you needed that third one no jedi doesn't count references references to jedi and remember layers in and she can use a force oh shit in canon she's currently a jedi of sorts what uh oh game over oh well yeah we're sorry buddy dude it's so fucking weird to say that like all those other sci-fi shows are all the same because the if you add the force they become star wars but without the force they're not like it's a bitery of sci-fi shows either you have the force or you don't like what our trek i'm actually really sad he mentioned star trek star trek has so much of a different character to star wars it goes well beyond the fucking force people will just listen to this section again right like what is star wars without the force it is star trek star gate star everything else star yeah when you pile up it gets worse and the expanse you have battlestar galactica you have star gate sg1 you have star trek who oh yeah that star wars like that's actually minus the force lame is star trek no no that's such like an insult to jean roddenberry just no i'm not even that familiar with star trek i'm not that familiar with star trek either there's so i understand that's substantially different and the big thing is that they're different in terms of character like the tone of those stories and what they're about they're so different they're just so i mean spaceships sure it's sci-fi whatever but like that is such a broad massive genre that it really is insulting the roddenberry to say that yeah you're just star wars without the force i don't even i can't be insulting so silly like it's just like yeah there's star wars and then there's these other science fiction it makes it sound like star wars is held above them all because of the force which is like that doesn't even i disagree with so much of what's being said yeah this is like a force really like come on damn like the vast the majority of what the star wars content doesn't have any force and well no he's not saying it's just the force it's it's it's like more said it's almost like the force elevates it above everything else because it has what everything else has but it also has the force anything it's yeah if anything it's like an anchor that it has to constant it's cursed to constantly absolutely very cursed by that but and then there's just the fact that it's like yeah you remove the force because i mean it just logically follows if you remove the force and then you have star trek the expanse star gate of battle star galactica just logically follows that you were saying that those four things are like very similar if not the same which is insane the expanse and star trek like yeah like the idea that the expanse and star trek are similar is like absurd they're very different i'm surprised drinker hasn't exploded are you okay buddy the insanity of it it's like i just don't even know how to respond to it that's it plain and simple that's it yeah wow plain and simple it's so reductive it says well okay we better read this and or yeah because he's not good at this what is this it doesn't matter just read it you put it on the screen for us to read down and or action star warshow i'm ahead of you so i'll read it and or is the first live action star warshow to eliminate the need for jedi sith or the force itself by focusing on the day-to-day problems of an average citizen like kassian that this grab this punctuation what the hell is going on also he capitalized by for some reason yes okay that's why i got confused i think that it's meant to be the force itself full stop by focusing on the day-to-day problems because when i read that i figured that kassian was like a new start or something yeah well then it was weird and it's like no by focusing on the day-to-day problems of an average citizen like kassian star wars has become far more gritty and realistic than the mystical force it's ever been that's a weird that's a very weird statement and despite there being several jedi alive holy shit and despite there being several jedi alive during and or's timeline it must continue right yeah it must okay so let's see maybe he reads this out maybe he reads something else this is the adventure of this video even though even though and or has jedi out there in the world well this show is going on what sorry not many dollars i'm like a screen rant article okay someone mentioned that in chat they chose to ignore them okay yeah everything that isn't in the show is this narrative dude it's ignoring darth vader it's ignoring the emperor it's ignoring all this other stuff because you what you're you can't show everything it can't be about everything as honestly thank fucking god we're not having another jedi show jesus christ yeah well we're about to get one with the soka right it's gonna be filled with fucking jedi and sith i'm sure it'll be great that'll be real star wars yeah um but yeah uh a new hope didn't have any boba fat he's he's star wars trying to remember i have a feeling a new hope references the emperor as often as and or references the force which is to say once or twice i believe the emperor's name is mentioned in and or at least once as well right yeah i mean so if the forces or and jedi and the force are you know classes being ignored in and or because they're not present on the screen and they're barely referenced and is a new hope ignoring the emperor by only mentioning him once or twice and never showing him by the same standard the the reality is that like the show in and in itself existing like cannot ignore them because what the story is about is like a logic it it follows from the events that happen that were surrounding the jedi which is involved with the collapse of the republic and the rise of the empire like it's necessarily like influenced by these events because and or is a show that does actually recognize where it exists in the timeline and tries to pull references from like uh other stories it's just not quite in the way that he wants i guess it's so funny though because like i think when we uh found out the idea that addles probably not gonna have a jedi in it we were like oh that was so refreshing yep finally so refreshing yeah i just i'm sick of it if you've done it well i'd be more excited but the simple plain fact of the matter is that i just don't fucking care about star or the jedi and lightsabers you said it perfectly rags earlier like a certain point you have to have a fresh perspective on it you have to do something different instead of just trotting out the member berries just giving us the same um simplistic elements that we've seen every time uh just trotted out with no particular context or no thought how they fit together into a larger narrative just putting them in there because people recognize them what's the point in keeping doing that i would much rather have a well-constructed story that might omit some of those elements because they're not needed to this story like that's fine you can do that take the heist uh arc right across four five six if we had uh as part of the team guy called you know jona shitto who's the brother of glub shitto so you got your references in and he's a jedi and during the whole thing it's him his job to mind trick some of the people who are at the front gate or whatever and during the part where it all falls apart you get shot in the back and down he goes he had a lightsaber he blocked a few shots beforehand does this make and all better now no and this guy's mind it does it makes it more star wars well yeah that's the correct question does it make it more star wars which to me is just like what why why does there have to be a fucking jedi in every single corner of the fucking galaxy every time is like rats and i think that he's he's reading a much more sort of the ignore thing like as a much more like malicious thing when it's just like well it's not even really ignoring them they're just not in these places well as well like remember when i mentioned earlier right like security and and law enforcement and stuff at these like um kind of outer rim planets that are not all that important like it's handled by local security guys and when the empire show up with their stormtroopers that's when you know shit's getting real and it gives them so much more significance when they do you cannot you can make the same argument here with things like lightsaber jedi and stuff the fact that they're not in this particular narrative they haven't shown up yet i mean god knows what will happen in season two but it lends that air of of importance to them because they're almost like beyond what's going on here you know and if they do come in it's like well it's probably going to be a really big deal as it should be because they're extremely rare they're meant to be at this point in the history of star wars it's such a fucking monkey's poor thing too because you know what the next big movie in the series of star wars movies may very well be ray training up new jedi you'll get your jedi and you'll fucking love it it'll be great you can handle you'll be missing add all because it'll only get two seasons it'll be stopped because it's just not good enough not not got enough eyes on it unfortunately they chose not to do it they chose not to have anything starwarsy in star wars like people say the empire yeah like and it's pretty funny right because this is coming from us we've said you know like man we could have used a few more aliens i think that would be nice a few more aliens or a few robot characters like god damn there are shit tons of like star wars material i mean he looked it up on wikipedia like he to know what to have in there and to have that stuff in there i like i find it so weird like that whole oh it's got bricks in it especially when it's like dude it's still like this is an expensive universe got bricks it's gonna have like well it was it was really cool um i can't remember it was in spherics that was uh that was a planet that that was a cool planet that was like a really interesting place first thing we thought when he was walking through that we were like oh god it's not it's not tatooid and it's not volume screen yep it actually looks like a place where people have been living for a long time it's like an industrial city you know like an industrial city on a kind of baronish but not too baron yeah it's not miserable it's not great it's just pretty like okay you know i people live here it's uh it was and of course the fact that like it felt like a place that people lived in as he was moving through the town because it felt like people were actually going about their lives like it was even simple stuff like seeing the guys leaving um work and then putting up their gloves like sort of clocking in clocking out yeah um the different sort of places to go to like get off world like repair shops and everything it was like a lot of a lot of great texture that made that place feel like lived in and real and that was awesome to see that and like and in the star wars universe which is like an expansive galaxy filled with like tons of populated planets you're gonna see a lot of variety there like that variety is is welcome if um if he was to say yes fine fine find all of this but i'm not saying it's bad just not star wars as i said before does that mean Kenobi and Boba Fett they'd be star wars but he acts they'd be star wars but not good like remember modern politics that's the thing well maybe he say they don't count as star wars either but i guess what i'm saying is like they got the fundamental force aspect at that point it's like what is it worth to be star wars but to also be shit it's like i don't care like the qualifying as star wars by this metric is worthless because it doesn't give you anything it just gives you like oh look the force i like that oh look the baby is uh beating up the he pulled a little screw out of the giant robot that was shooting at mando because he's a mandalorian that's cool i hate what star wars is now as to why i hate what they made it if you made it good i'd still like it if it was all jedi and all lightsabers and it was full of really cool characters and well constructed plots that made sense and man i'd i'd probably be you know still be down for it but you didn't make that you just made a bunch of crap and so it has soured my taste on the force and lightsabers and all that stuff just i'm sick of it very true and also uh drinker must leave us uh he's got he's got he's got drinks to be getting to i assume that's that's all i can ever yeah i don't want to get too abusive and and slurring my words too much so uh yeah it seems like a good time to finish up don't worry i will let you know what you missed i'm sure there's i'm sure there's some fantastic arguments this is where we're going to get into the meat of it he's going to hit you guys with some points right that are going to blow your minds and i'm going to end up telling you from your view on the next open board that i actually agree and always not star wars yeah certainly not real star wars i'm not real star wars and we're not real star wars fans you know yep because we yeah we like andor so you know we're not star wars fans so you gotta choose you gotta choose in any case i feel like i haven't done this in a while drinker why don't you tell everybody what you're up to and why they can find you uh you could find me hanging around the nearest bar i guess or a strip club you know one of those two um but you also you can also find me on my youtube channel the critical drinker and on a thursday night moeller and i like to hang out talk about how everything is going great yeah yeah well we're super positive there's so much to like at the moment absolutely we're really good season of good stuff the lord of ring golem that's out we could play that i'm so excited for that game i actually want to play it and stream myself doing it i've heard it's boring as hell but hopefully there's enough bugs to keep you yeah um but yeah all right well thank you so much for joining us and uh links are in chat and description and yes uh join me and drinker on every thursday as we talk about everything getting real great and good and awesome it's been a pleasure gents catch you later absolutely doodaloo bye bye now back to back to whatever's about to happen next this is the definitive this is the definitive take by the way this self-described definitive video on why it's not true star wars and i think he's going toward the end of what he described was his biggest point as well which is that there's not enough force in it but this is not if you haven't seen it like is he actually just going off what people have told him that there's no scene where anyone lifts anything now i needed a uh disinterested third party oh no to help me come up with something so what does that mean i went to uh chat gpt what the fuck does that mean and i asked it to make me to write me the plot for a basic generic young adult sci-fi novel i literally don't care i have no fucking clue where this is going i just don't think it's possible to express how little i give a fuck about anything that chat gpt generates the fact i just do not care i i just i i am actually my curiosity is peaked what is this going what point is this going to favor is he going to read it out and say it's basically no different than andor how could the forces like every other generic sci-fi guys i've proven it because i just had chat gpt write one for me i i guess we've made chat gpt an authority on like storytelling or listen i think maybe you're all jumping the gun who knows what he's about to say this could go anywhere i am i'm fascinated that the fact that even brought up chat gpt what in the world is this going to be why young adult because when you're reading young adult novels it's always one person against this or one girl against that or one so okay here's what all right so let's be let's be very clear that's just a fucking lie it's always one person against something like i would consider the hobbit virtually a young adult novel and hey anything like that yeah that's one person against the whole world rax that's what that is i mean like all of the stories about this that and the other thing i that's just not true at all like whether it's the Lloyd alexander stuff or i don't know jesus christ it's just funny how casually that's said it's like it's always a fucking person against you know it's just asserted so confidently and yet it's he's almost described storytelling where it's usually a character going through some form of a struggle at the very least you get that cat gpt all right came up with the story follows a teenage protagonist who lives in a futuristic society with advanced technology and scientific breakthroughs the protagonist is a misfit or outsider in their community often feeling like they don't fit in or long one day the protagonist discovers a hidden truth or secret about their society that leads them on a dangerous journey so my guess is that the plot twist is see this is and or but all right well i can tell like it's it's not gonna be whether or not he says that let us run with that just to see how viable it is okay the story follows a teenage protagonist so yeah lives in a futuristic society it's like sure it's gone a long time ago but i got to me yeah fair enough yeah but it's all pretty mundane environment that he finds himself in like a pretty a pretty normal yeah interesting to call it in he's got family and friends and you know he does like fit in like one of the but one of the big sort of plot elements of the early episode is him trying to maintain his fitting where he is and how much stress it causes him he is very much not interested in getting involved and it's it's that he gets dragged into it very much yeah arguably him his arc for the season is choose between trying to just go with the flow and be a part of the system or to break it yep that's yeah exactly um but then he tries to go with the flow it does not work they discover a hidden truth or secret it's like well no the the inciting incident is he gets in trouble yeah big trouble he does two people try to rob him he kills them yeah and that puts him so it's not like a hidden truth or see and he knows he knows the empire like he knows what it is he knows how to maneuver through it it's not like a hidden secret about it he just doesn't want to get involved so already if we ran with this being see plot twist this is and or first paragraph already yeah well you know the power ending with on a dangerous journey of self-discovery and rebelling against the status quo it's like yeah sure that applies but you could say that about look yep so why is it bad and it's like there's nothing wrong with that along the way the protagonist meets a group of other teams wrong who are also fighting against the system true but not all of them are doing it for the same reason and they call McClellan and Bonno they don't know they don't like there's a lot of conflict and betrayal and yeah and they're very very suspicious of each other we talk about there's they all have different sort of drives and motivations you've got like it was Nemek right the who wrote the manifesto like very sort of ideologically minded and motivated like determined steadfast devoted to the cause but young kind of like not super familiar with how the world works and then you had a the opportunist in the group who was just there to make money bullshitting his way through it just to get some cash yet and or who was there pretty unwillingly willing to help out and like and actually like help out and um and work with the team but like pretty disinterested in a lot of ways of being involved um uh you you had a like super devoted um yeah luthan got him in the money luthan first got him in using money as a uh yeah it's a job you'll get paid this much money don't worry guys he's cool yeah mon optimus cousin who was like sort of in charge but like quite nervous about it all a lot of information was withheld from her she was kind of reluctant to actually follow through in the end but with the nudging of uh of um damn it i just remember to know there was like a partner with her nudging like because she's much more like focused devoted her life like her entire life revolves around that mission it's like you've got a set of people who got brought together in a situation who very much did not form a tight nip bond there was a lot of conflict there well and we're gonna continue on this track but people already know something about this set of three paragraphs that's very interesting if you think about something else but we'll get to that in a sec because continuing the close nip bond they encounter advanced technology dangerous enemies and a moral dilemma that forces them to question their beliefs and values that doesn't really happen in the um in the arc with the if we're going from if we assume this is now regarding the second arc right the four five six it's not like he the moral dilemma and i guess you could argue maybe it's where it's set in stone that he's got to make a choice and he commits to you know not joining one but the problem with this is the that's great is there a story where characters don't face a moral dilemma of some form it's like this is going to be applicable so much something that i'm thinking about as well and or is like an ensemble show like yeah sure and or is the main character but there are a lot of pov characters there's like a lot of the story that has nothing to do with him um i don't get those are actually the most interesting parts of it as well and or is is quite a blank protagonist and that's what allows us to spend so much time looking through the eyes of people like monothma which this little story praise he doesn't really account for and or is not like the most integral part of this story which is slightly unconventional but quite certain the way i see it is that he's he's like the story of a normal person getting completely radicalized and you know i mean that in a sense of he goes through some pretty fucking unfair things all at once and then he realizes something and that he gets motivated to want to do something he's at first more than willing to just exist and just around doing shit by the end of it he's the because luthan's going to kill him by the end of it isn't he uh because he's like a liability but then and or it's basically like none i'm actually hoping to uh join you in your fight um because when you hit the end of the heist arc and or is kind of directionless he's kind of like he's got his money got resources of the kinds and all to do it's it's i mean the how you know the the things with his mother and that kind of gets on track it's the it's the whole prison arc that changes everything quite significantly um and so yeah i you know i kind of agree that the he's not even someone that we draw from if a significant amount of substance until i would say later in the show a lot of what he goes through in the first and second arcs are things that he's trying to do pragmatically right to escape the authorities from having killed two people and to get money enough to be able to hide he's a very like pragmatic goals and yeah i mean he's searching for his sister as well isn't he but that that's sort of the the doomed quest that then you know when he realizes it's essentially doomed to you then that's the moment he has no cause and nothing to fight for and then luthan sort of presents the alternative which is something that you could you know you might not even be fully signed up to you by the end but at least it gives you something toward which to weigh him and you might be nihilistic about it which is sort of way we pick up with andor and rogue one but at least it gives you something some sort of direction yeah it's just how he got there um so then the final paragraph is ultimately the protagonist and their allies work together to overthrow the corrupt government so and or dies and all of his friends die with the empire more than in power that's the end of his story but they've managed to do something that will likely lead to the end of the empire uh they usher in a new era of freedom and equality no he doesn't he doesn't live to see that like you know if we're being fair here like luthan is probably going to die and part of part of his part of his speech is about how he won't be seeing the era that he's trying to create um the story ends the protagonist finding their place in the world and feeling his heads blogging he's dead at the end having made a significant impact on this society and paving the way for a brighter future is arguable yeah he helps pave the way now um whether or not that's applicable to andor is an interesting question i don't think it really is i think if we're being generous here you can say there's pieces but come on um parts the most general however if you think about a different story maybe that of uh a new hope and read this again sorry i'm a bit ill um the story follows a teenage protagonist who lives in a futuristic society with advanced technology and scientific breakthroughs like even though he's on tata ween they've got advanced technology and of course the same universe star wars if he counts for and or accounts for star of the new hope the protagonist is a misfit or outsider in the community often feeling like they don't fit in or belong it's like ding of course that's luke one day the protagonist discovers a hidden truth or secret about this society that leads him on a dangerous journey of self-discovery and rebellion against the status quo linds about the force so it's an element of the universe that he wasn't aware of previously i mean it is that's not the instigating part though the instigating part is the death of his that's true um yes you wouldn't say it led him to that thing but i'd say it's more applicable to luke than it is to and or along the way the protagonist meets a group of other teens who are also fighting against the system wouldn't call them teens but the you know the rebellion and uh they are much more tighten it as a bond and they navigate challenges and obstacles uh they encounter advanced technology and dangerous enemies that'd be the empire and moral dilemmas that force them to question their beliefs and values that'd be his father ultimately the protagonist and their allies work together to overthrow the corrupt government the empire and authority uh or authority figure controlling society and usher in a new era of freedom and equality yep story ends with the protagonist finding their place in the world and feeling a sense of belonging having made a significant impact on the society and paving the way for it yes i'd say that's way more applicable to luke or at least well the last bit was until the sequel trilogy established that they didn't usher in the new period of equality because nothing actually changed but yes otherwise it's completely applicable to luke um so knowing that i was like all right so let's see what he has to conclude about these three paragraphs self-discovery and rebellion there's that word against the status quo yes along the way the protagonist meets a group of other teens who are also fighting against the system and they form a close knit bond as they navigate the challenges and obstacles thrown their way as they encounter advanced technology dangerous enemies and moral dilemmas that force them to question their beliefs and values yeah ultimately the protagonist and their allies work together to overthrow the corrupt government or authority figure controlling their society and usher in a new era of freedom and equality the story ends for a little bit protagonist finding their place in the world and feeling a sense of belonging having made a significant impact on their society and paving the way for a brighter future yeah the ot really is written by george lucas that's rogue one oh that's rogue one oh that's rogue one go back a sec um uh consider me surprised yeah i was not expecting that okay not expecting that well so that would be for uh for um it's still more applicable to to a new hope than rogue one yeah it's it's quite applicable to a new hope because now it's the hidden truth about his life because the story ends with the protagonist finding their place in the world it's like well the same still applies well so running it again with rogue one it would be um what's her name i've forgotten i jinn is her that's right so teenage protagonist well she's not teenage futuristic society but star was fine protagonist and misfit or outsider she's a bit of a misfit yeah um one day the protagonist discovers a hidden truth or secret about the society no she gets drafted essentially it's not about them finding their place so much as them changing the world around them i'm thinking just just on the hidden truth point is that um her father's message when she meets so she's already been drafted by the point she meets sorgara though yeah she's already on the the sort of the road there so yeah it's slightly skewed but um everyone she meets up with fucking she does not they're not a close-knit bonded group uh she fights with handle and part of the problem with rogue one is they don't get to know each other enough before they'll die yeah so wouldn't call it close-knit and was going to shoot her father while she's off to rescue him so it's not exactly uh the close-knit group who's fighting for her for a common cause and goal at that point and they work together to let me we went all through this with how andro's story ends in that film is the same as gin so it doesn't just say yeah i don't know square uh peg round hole a little tweaking that's rogue one also a new hope with a little tweaking that's andor oh that's the plot of it okay okay okay i was gonna say the least tweaking you need to do makes it a new hope yeah it's closer to a new hope than anything else with a little tweaking that's the plot of batastar galactica oh my god dude is it okay how can you that's not true but if he's i don't know much about a star galactica but that's not true is it but if he spotted that how is he not spotted because this is the thing if someone said do you really think that describes a new hope i'd be like no not really but if you're gonna get brought as broad as he's being you'd have to say yes but yeah it broadly with a little tweaking that's the plot of every sci-fi show out there dude this is getting so fucking weird how is it how is how the fuck is this like star trek how is it the expense that is a that's actually a great point sorry how is that star trek star trek is even remotely like wow what is happening because the other the other implication now basically bladerunner is the what what george did that was so special is he took that basic template and then threw the force in there and it made the most specialist sci-fi fantasy in history it's the secret ingredient that just makes it shine you know the little tweaking it's e-fab the little tweaking is he has very true so how can this be star wars how can it be battle star galactica star trek star gate star galaxies how can it be all of those how can something that it doesn't have the main element of star wars be star wars can't it's not you cannot have a grounded and gritty star wars when star wars is a fantasy sci-fi show um wait you can't you can't be grounded and gritty if it's sci-fi fantasy why the fuck can't you i don't i don't i don't like what about game of thrones i don't know who wrote the rule realistic but it's also fantasy like whoever put this into law i'd like to speak to them because i want to know why this this got made as a rule yeah there's tons of grit and realism that goes into like the lord of the rings into you know house of the dragon and so these shows that have fantasy and fantastic yellow willow the argument that you know by comparison to a lot of earth pretty 60s 70s science fiction you know star wars itself original star wars is comparatively dark and gritty because it portrays a lived in universe under a dictatorial regime as opposed to sort of this shiny pristine spotless utopia that so much sci-fi goes went in for back in the day it's already more gritty than any comparable sci-fi of its era you've got to find this gotta be someone from back then who said the reason star wars doesn't work is because they try to combine like a lofty sci-fi and fantasy ideas with gritty down to earth like understandable brick and mortar ideas which you can't do they are incompatible instead of instead of you saying brick and mortar i almost thought you said rick and morty rick and morty ideas no fantasy in and or there's no fantasy in and or for some reason that's more the most compelling thing he said to me and this is like this whole two videos because i'm like there is sci-fi there's a lot less fantasy elements i would probably agree but that's you know like what would you guys highlight as the biggest elements of the fantasy in star wars uh the biggest elements of the fantasy of star wars what makes it a fantasy more than anything else i mean i mean the only thing would be the force wouldn't it everything else is some sort of technology or scientific explanation but the force is like that is essentially magic what's its spaceships the technology is relatively fantastical next to hard science fiction but there's no real attempt to explain until you get hyper-fueled and all that bollocks but there's no real attempt to explain sort of you know the mechanics of spaceships how lightsabers work it's not hard science fiction it does rely on a little bit more leaps of imagination and good faith and fantastical elements to allow for its technology to slide but i'm not sure that really rises to the level of fantasy no i mean momentum in space like stuff like that lightsabers existing the forces you're right the force is by far the biggest one um but you know you mean like when they talk about like the crystals and uh i guess there's a machine it depends if we define like science fiction as necessarily hard science fiction or if there's room for essentially yeah i mean like where where yeah we're playing with our reality a little bit here just to make it work there's a question of something like the rancor does that does that feel more fantasy or more sci-fi i have no idea it's hard to say it's like well i i mean you know alternate worlds in the middle of space could have all kinds of creatures in them does that automatically make it fantasy it's like well i guess i've never thought about it i've never thought about all the tick boxes for what makes something more defined by what's around it than itself these definitions like yeah it becomes complicated and i that's kind of where i wanted to get to where it's like uh so add or not being fantasy enough it's just like oh this feels like why are we here you know why can't we talk about how well-written the characters are how much it supports the overall world of star wars when i was when i'm here watching the battle of helms deep i'm like where the fuck's all the magic there's just like arrows and swords and shit what's too gritty fantasy the forces sci-fi because of medichlorians oh no there's no fantasy in rogue one you know where there is fantasy episodes one through six oh there you go prequels the prequels count okay the jedi yeah but the prequels suck and the force and also the sequels count and also the sequels are absolutely very fantasy they're dragging they're still dragging that anchor and they suck sorry i mean like it's if if he actually was to say like yeah the sequels definitely qualify way more as star wars than and or does it's like oh i mean there's there is a there is a graveyard and a and and even past that there is a a massive you couldn't name all of the movies that are super super fantasy where it's just like you have no idea what the fuck is going on where there's no grounding to reality and they do they talk about kyber crystals and jedi in a rogue one and you have you know the forces with me guy you know it's not yeah the place where there's not nothing in there are other components that play but it is surrounded by the force without the force not really surrounded by so much of the ot is not surrounded by the mon it's surrounded by the secular stuff the force is the parts that have the whole world surrounding it like if the force disappeared from the star wars universe it would just carry on without the force right but if but you can't just leave the force elements there you'd have to completely restructure the world from the ground up well we we know plenty of the world of star wars has to operate as though the force isn't even a thing a lot of them don't even know what it is in the ot so i don't even think it's real i mean han soloed thinks that he didn't think it's bullshit when they first met it's just yeah it's an old bunch of old nonsense tired of fighting against the eu which disney decanonized but they're now reaching back and cannibalizing it so they can have more content because they can't come up with an original idea to save the lives no they have original ideas they did they tried to do an original ideas you hate it you i don't even know if you hate you haven't seen it i guess i got i don't even know anything disney is doing the opposite they also have the original idea of taking the superficial of what happened in the eu and then you know butchering it but then they did that with normal stuff to go on and make a like a full-throated defense of the eu he will have to grapple with the fact that the eu contains a huge number of stories where the jedi are not present and the force is not heavily involved so he will have to be more selective about what he's quoting from the eu because yeah there are like barb effect comics where there are no jedi there um there's a lot of stuff in the eu which is not tied to the force in exactly the way that he criticizes andor for example for me i would make a defense of andor saying that andor is probably the most like the old expanded universe model of storytelling of anything that disney's put out um one of the the virtues of it is also one of its pitfalls which is that you don't actually need to watch it as i think we said right in the beginning if you don't like it if it's not your thing if it's too slow for you if you don't like the tone if it's boring to you fine you don't have to see it to understand everything else that doesn't make it not star wars any more than an equivalent comic in the eu you didn't like wasn't part of the eu um you you it's probably stupid to demand consistency of this person but you know it would be nice they you go back to darth vane and the rule of two that's dumb though he decided that two sith were going to be it and those two sith were going to manipulate galactic events so that one day a sith would be able to rule the galaxy one of those two because it would be difficult it you couldn't have three sith manipulating or four or even like a whole bunch of them because that would be that would just well so uh i don't know if a little for two or sort of shadows wasn't there like a great culling of sith on a planet or something car about i think it was yeah which i whenever i've heard people describe it to me i was just like what there are things in the expanded universe that sound very silly i'm gonna put it that way oh yeah there is a lot of silly stuff in it um there is some good stuff in it as well but you know there's a i think lucas teared it didn't he had like a gold star system gold star silver star bronze star gold was officially canon silver was sort of semi canon and bronze was kind of just there the equivalent of legends today um but i i've been ages since i read almost any of it though so i'd have to sort of go back to the caravan stuff but i think you play through it in nice the old republic um but you sort of have the option to bring that place down it depends on your moral decisions of character alpatine is the culmination of that sith working okay okay not only did they manipulate the government and the economics and everything else going on but they you they had to use the force they had to use the dark side to help them get things done okay you can't do that without the force you can't manipulate governments without the force why why are we even talking about this what about all of the things that are happening in that universe that aren't those two what about that is there anything interesting happening is it just like no none of that's interesting that's boring it's not star wars galaxy full of planets and civilizations and cultures and technologies and wars and conflicts and we it has to be about these these fucking sith people with their force whatever's making their silly noises many of palpatine's most consequential actions did not require the force they were his political machinations the reason that the army of the republic is created is because he and his bureaucrats play off of jar jar binks his good intentions they essentially just manipulate him based on his character to sign or to sign through an incredibly short-sighted militaristic bill um then he you know he manipulates the senate the reason he's not detected by the jedi is the force stuff the dark side nebulously clouding their vision and all that but his great skill isn't really using the force to sway people's minds it's his political machinations because of course a politician is the person who brings an end to the glory days of the republic yeah i've heard this fighting over that for star wars fans as to whether or not how much palpatine used the force to you know like mind control his way get into different parts because like i think a lot of people don't like the idea that he used the force to do it because they like the idea that he was smart enough to manipulate you know a lot of different events to push things in place to get him to where he was which again i would i would have more respect for that kind of storytelling than every single time palpatine had a problem politically but let's have a meeting together what on what in this room but then he just holds up his arm he's like you agree with me and they go okay but then it's like eventually becomes emperor it's like yeah that's not really as interesting as he like actually did different operations move different pieces around the board all that sort of stuff um and yeah part of what's annoying about this is um we follow so many characters in in the ot that are just non-force users that are pivotally important hun solo is the reason both death stars blow up i am not saying the only reason but he's a huge portion for why both of them were destroyed he doesn't fucking use the force thinks it's a joke like why are we pretending like it's it's like this thing that just cannot be divorced from any moment of star wars totally can i mean the i mean the force had nothing to do with the escape from hot you know with all kinds of stuff i mean it's just i don't know i i i guess it's a shame that you that that he has focused so hard on the force element when um yeah i uh it seems very limiting to what star wars is the empire probably wouldn't exist there would be no star wars you could you could write the story to where the force isn't necessary it just happened this way because that's what the story is but if you wanted to make a story like this where well i mean that's every other story about political subversion it doesn't involve magic it's about like what that's what like essentially game of thrones is almost not what 90 what percent just people talking and alliances and backstabbing and creating treaties and defensive packs and marriages and bloodlines and controlling this and that is like that let's not pretend it's some novel concept that you need to have these mystical elements to have well you do if you wanted to be star wars right right see when tarkin is like making his political orders to you know crush rebellions and stuff it's all it's all about the force kind of totally is it's not like the death star represents a really cold mechanical like overthrowing of or a response almost to the power of nature so trying to keep the jedi and the sith and the force out makes it not star wars so that's what i got that's nothing let the debate away we're gonna talk about this in the comments i'm sure we've been debating for a while it's all good i mean i i guess we've been we've been pulling a bit of weight on this one though these were a lot of assertions made without any claims just like this is how it is so that's why it is how it is that way it's just very compelling um no sure nothing into the true fan stuff nothing into you know it doesn't expect it more star wars really yeah that's uh that was yeah 17 minutes and i mean well maybe he'll pulse a real banger out here in the last minute but he's a quick fire round let me know am i off my rocker yes am i completely miles away from the truth or yes are you guys with me what's speaking truth and you see my point of view and you're yep you know what what your point of view that if you remember you got it like for the force from star wars at star track there's not a lot no free it's not what i would call a very compelling video um if anyone i can't imagine there's anyone who agrees with you who didn't already go in agreeing with you um i have no idea how this would be convincing to anybody if anything it makes you think about why they wouldn't agree with you on the head please let me know in the comments what you think i've gotten a lot of new subscribers i'm gonna thank you guys you guys are great i appreciate every each and every one of you yay we are growing the small little channel and i'm happy to be able to bring videos like this to you guys think i'm as bad as the video would be if you'd watch dando yeah imagine if you got some references and explained why oh well this happened and this happened so it's not real star wars because real star wars is this this this this and it's this way because of these things and if you take these parts away stops being star wars whereas i'm basically of the opinion that well i guess anything by definition that takes place in the star wars universe is star wars um mostly yeah you know and it could even be begrudgingly right like the sequels all these star wars like well yeah yeah there's yeah there's star wars they sure i don't want it to be it's kind of it's no joy in it it feels like a sister argument to the what is canon like well any meaningful definition is probably going to involve who has the rights to the ip or what you consider in your own head and it's totally viable to choose either i suppose but you know for example if i said uh indiana jones and kingdom the crystal girl can't count as indiana jones because it doesn't have uh i'm trying to think of like what element that almost comes across as superficial that is present in the first three but not in that one it's like a younger indiana jones if you don't have that you're not in the anagones like oh and then it it makes you think like well that could work though you could make that work um and so i was like why do you say it then it's like well because i just think it's so fucking awful i wish it weren't we don't we don't say like this random fan fiction we found in the middle of the dark web made by you know jonesmith 321 about indiana jones is not indiana jones nobody says that but you only say it about the stuff that is officially canon because of how fucking awful it is you don't want it to be um obviously the reason we break down a lot of the stuff like the sequels or we're gonna we're gonna talk about diala destiny i can guarantee that shit why because that's the newest entry to who owns the ip to that wonderful franchise that's going down in flames and so uh by that logic then is it and or star wars like well yeah and it's good to be that that's star wars it's it's like the closest thing we've gone to substantive fucking content from star wars ip in forever like you know i guess that closes out this video what else we got uh hopefully this will be the last video i need to make about why and or isn't star wars to just watch it uh like i don't know man you're this video is shit i don't know what to say it's there's nothing in here that even approaches compelling um it probably damages your point of view more than anything else um if you said he was making a follow-up video once he checks out a bunch of lives like please just watch it i know that it's gonna be a painful 12 hours because you it's no force in it or however long it takes but just watch it i i would actually genuinely like to know what he thought if he was to watch it yeah this video if he actually had a bunch of references and things could have been while not correct interesting so i don't know it'll be the video i refer everyone back to oh yeah when someone says triangle is star wars you just said it isn't if you're watching from the future no i mean i guess he refers the people who say that to this yeah hello like if someone says stand or is star wars he will refer them here yeah but all he's saying is basically that it isn't because like no force uh he said there was no force and he said that there's modern audience appealing writing that's what that's what kills it from the past if you're watching today thank you for well how so like we take a show like house of the dragon right there's a lot in there that appeals to modern audiences same thing with like what arcane well using his standard of um there are lesbians there are lesbians in both arcane and house of the dragon so lesbians i was thinking his preferred tactic is i found an actor saying something which right you'll be on why so house of the dragon i don't remember it was one of the writers or one of the actors who said of the um the baby scene that it's yeah it's kind of redolent of the current american issues around rovers is wade for example i have no fucking idea how it does no i'm not in the same situation where you're like shut up stop ruining the show i was like how what what you've made that up you've you've just lied you're a liar you just you just lied if you buy into the first earth narrative i guess you could i don't like it's it's so it's such a bullshit lie like they made all of that shit that would have been written well before the rove v wade stuff kicked up they just like trying to adopt it in to be like see we're relevant we talk about it's like the show is good okay you don't need to do all that shit the characters are great and the story is awesome and it's got good music and awesome sets and great acting i mean boy oh boy we were talking about earlier right like patty talking about the character his values what he was going through and stuff that's great when fucking director is like you know rove way we kind of covered that and this is like i'll make you cry watching me walk to a chair and he did i did have a question it was sort of the back of my mind about house of the dragon which is that you know game of thrones of course famously does not end particularly well house of the dragon i don't know if it was hotly anticipated but it gained a huge viewership over time because people watched it were pleasantly surprised and stuck with it what's is there the difference between that and and or them what why why did the audience latch on to one and not the other um i think part of the reason is so i i think i alluded to it earlier but i think that unfortunately disney has the audience they cultivated for themselves um if disney makes a show that's really good and thoughtful and has good actors and neat themes and all that sort of thing like that like why would star wars why would a modern star wars audience like that it's not full of references is not full of stupid fucking dumb action it's not like poorly paced it's not you know it's and or is like the antithesis of what you know what star wars is currently so yeah i can see why star wars audiences wouldn't like it and that's that's really unfortunate but the people who are interested in game of thrones and like fantasy dramas and you know political intrigue and that sort of thing they want what house of the dragon did and it executed it well um so i think that has a big i think it has a big thing like it if you if you're the kind of person who sees star wars and goes like the star wars written as a new show or you you hear about a new star wars show and you go oh a new star wars thing we're gonna have to see that then it's not gonna be like any star wars around it and you are not gonna like it very possibly but if you're into house of the dragon stuff and it like let's say you really liked game of thrones and you hated the ending and you hear that there's a new game of throne show you're like oh boy i i do like when game of thrones was good you know i really really liked it so you know hopefully if it's like that i'll really like house of the dragon and it seems that people really did if after game of thrones it was very reminiscent of game of thrones in its heyday if after game of thrones wrapped up they had book of uh duncan egg or uh eddard stock the tv show and they were both horrible like everyone hated the fuck out of them yeah i think then going like house of the dragon is like because the thing about house the dragon is um as game of thrones like almost on a superficial level fans like what does it got it's like it's all about the Targaryens and dragons it's like oh i like Targaryens and dragons it's got matt smith in it oh i like him from the doctor who and the other things that i have seen him in in which like like morbius i'm a big fan of his work i like morbius is not a sentence i'm sorry um you know and then you get the trailers and you're like you know i can give this a shot meanwhile like there's just no we went over this there's no hook for andor and the best time to have released it would have been right after rogue one that would that was its slot and it probably would have been way more successful and well received but star wars is gas is at an all-time low uh and they started to realize that because he didn't even say their numbers for mando were failing it's like oh shit it's it didn't it not pull the numbers of book of bow of it that was the realization they had they were like oh yeah i believe it it did worse than orb one uh and book of over that i think so like star wars is going the same way uh as like i guess name another like doctor who that you could argue doctor who is in serious trouble um it's on life support essentially it's it looks like it's it's about to get the defibrillator and if it doesn't you know jump it back to life it might just be proper dead so you know like star wars if they make another ray movie and it's awful and then they release mando season four and it's awful it's like you you marvel will be doing this eventually they they need every last banger they can find and they can't seem to produce any um you know like it audience uh critical claim at least guardians got higher than they've had in forever but that's not happening again at least not anytime soon so um yeah i don't know it's there's just different uh sort of scenes that they've been released into and uh yeah the other thing i think house of dragon has that and or didn't was um i think it hit the ground faster than and or did a lot of people gave and or three episodes and uh that wasn't enough to hook them in guess it was a bit slow paced it took its time i'm happy to concede that it's just uh yeah it took it's a time to get to where it needed to get to if you do three for house of the dragon is um you've already got the step stone wars done at that point for sticking around this long and and watching i really do appreciate it and uh i will see you on the next video he kept it for the outro yeah i love it well all right yeah that means if you watch a playlist that you get to hear it twice i've got nothing that i really want to develop further than go watch it first uh just go watch it i don't care if you hate every episode go watch it first it feels like uh that was like a complete waste of time really like fucking hell like about i don't know like we achieved nothing we got nowhere we achieve plenty we got to discuss all kinds of concepts we had a great chat we sure but i guess what i'm saying is if like you didn't have anybody to talk to about the video what do you gain from that nothing oh yeah that video is extremely i think you lose information because it's kind of misleading it's it's just um like the argumentation was really vacuous and like not it just didn't follow like there were a lot of sweeping conclusions drawn based on limited information and like bizarre sort of non-sequitur arguments um i did not like that what i've got now for us to follow there's something that was shared a while back on the subreddit that's how i was made aware of it and i kept it and i felt like this is the best time it's uh it's it's a video of tony gilroy being on a podcast called the x-ray vision podcast he talks about what he was doing with andor now considering everything you heard in those two videos let's put it against what the man himself says about the show after being asked questions about it i reckon this should be relatively interesting let's see what we got right the great thing about this show is you can sort of needle drop and and do a i could take you know we could take something from the Haitian revolution you take something from here take something from the the russian revolution so that's all that's the beauty of it and that's very modern my way is Haitian revolution that's relatively modern come on 19th century that was 19th century right yeah you're asking me like i know i don't know and you know what i hope you know i i just i hope everyone had a good time yeah two characters what happens next to the people you care about i'm making you care i think this is like a tony gilroy if you're going on this x-ray vision podcast with 28 000 subs you know you should come talk to us come to efap come on to efap and we'll we'll chat with you about andor and we'll explain to you why we'll tell you the top five things you could do for season two to make it true star wars i don't care if it's true star wars i just wanted to be actual star wars yeah verifiably star wars definitely star wars i have no idea what the copyright situation is here i'm just going to be vaguely careful question mark yeah this sounds like non copyrighted music do you do you jump out of that just generic sort of thanks so much for joining us uh i think one of the things that's really knocked rosy and i out about your story is how it shows how regular people not it seems like a really odd place for a playstation five oh there it is on the bedside table yeah yeah that's an odd place for a playstation five now something like where's the tv where yeah that's that's what i'm thinking where's the tv for this playstation five that's just sitting there by the bed on the by the wall because i have um i have a clock on my bedside table oh i'm clock yeah i've got a little yeah i'm just a really really long hdmi lead that might i think that's it i think the the logic is i can replace the discs right here from my bed like yeah i don't even have to get up to change what game i'm playing which is i can't imagine doing that myself but that's a really it's a modern world we you try to we live in they're trying to start up a meme there in chat with a little tweaking it's a nice setup not necessarily better than the skies space wizards etc would get enmeshed in a fight like this would either rebel or decide to join the forces that would oppress the rebellion what was the genesis of this story uh well i mean it started from uh you know the concept from uh from lucas film which was that they they were interested in doing a prequel from rogue one and doing uh you know the five years of casin andore's story before rogue one and so that was that was the very first that was the that was the buy-in and then you know what's your version of that i think they tried they did try a couple of the versions of it with different approaches my attitude about it sort of from the sidelines along the way was it seems to me it's pretty obvious what you have to do if you have this incredibly accomplished character in rogue one who is you know the tactical leader the the the the person of the alliance trusts to go on the most important mission possible and a guy who exhibits all these incredible leadership skills along the way tactically and he changes his mind and he lies and he does all the things that a leader has to do on a mission like that and then the guy gives his life for everybody well it's a generous view of the characterization yeah but allow it like i get what are you trying to say you got to gas up uh casin a little bit when you're talking about how you made a prequel show you know gassy and andore who is that person so my idea is i said well you want to if you're going to do a show about that person you know if you're going to what's going to happen to them you want to take them as far away from that as possible five years ago if you want to have a show about becoming yeah our show in many ways is about becoming it's a revolution becoming a revolution it's about casin andore becoming a revolutionary and then becoming a leader it's about a lot of people becoming different things so and when it came to you knew you were going to show the becoming so when it came to building the world one of the things that's kind of blown us away star wars has always been analogous but this feels like a show that has a lot of very radical things to stay about building a rebellion and the becoming of a rebellion and the kind of world that encourages a rebellion a world with horrific prison labor you know a world that oppresses the most vulnerable could you speak a little bit about building that world that would encourage casin to become the person that we see in in roguam well canonically in star wars in the five years i have a five year tranche a writer talking about what's canon and trying to he probably read that off wikipedia that doesn't count yeah that's true doesn't he have more trouble because you know talking about earlier about him his characterization of the characterization of andor and roguam being a bit generous i was he must have had quite a difficult job with andor character in in this show because andor is so sort of lowly and and non-present even in roguam like he's not really building a character toward a great moral height because that's the journey he has to start going on when roguam happens and i sort of thought that might have been why they spent longer building up everything around him than really building up the character himself because they can't do too much work with him without treading on the toes of the film that comes i think that you're right and i think that he has to talk around that because andor what we're doing it seems is reducing him down to neutral man and he's going to become guy who wants to take out the empire by the time we hit and or roguam it's like yeah this shouldn't be too difficult to do he's going to have a couple of experiences to get him there but ultimately it's not going to be that complicated at least not compared to someone like mon mothma or luthan who've got a shit ton more going on all these different networks and like uh the way that the struggles and weights of different pressures coming at them and going this way and the other andor is like you know i'm not going to say it's not bad it's just very straightforward what you have to do with him um because you know the implication for what he said it's like we're going to see him learn to like all leadership skills going to see him learn to become a skilled uh liar or a skill but why it's like not really we you know he's pretty okay at a lot of stuff because he's just a general handyman but he's also just trying to survive the situations he's put in and he's mostly a gunslinger you know in in all of them it's okay it's just that uh it's going to motivate him to you know be in the position he is in roguam but i don't think you can that doesn't sound that enticing compared to what he said you know like i said it's his job to make his sound a hell of a lot better than yeah he's a guy who's going to become anti-empire yeah okay five years i have a five-year tranche of history that take care of i have a five-year calendar so i know what happens in those five years i don't really have to spend very much time thinking about anything else it's and so i have to those five years are canonically clear to me um there's no question of the established atrocities and and motivations of an empire right i mean that's no yeah man um and we know we know how bitter and horrifying and genocidal the battle will ultimately be and how you know devastating it'll be to alderaan and everything else you know all that um but all that said um i do never start anything with an agenda i start with characters and i have that's funny that's really funny well isn't that brilliant now if we had watched this yesterday then i would have i wouldn't have known that he was a filthy liar you see because i have it from the nerd way i've heard i have a good on good authority you're not being oh by the way tony that should be music to that other guy we covered his ears the fact that you said no not interested in agenda character first hmm this quote didn't pop up anyway with an agenda i start with characters and i have my personal beliefs that i hope will you know in some way uh osmotically you know work their way through but i don't ever think about oh i have an extra grind about this i'm going to talk about this or i didn't start michael clain because i wanted to do a story about industrial you know industrial you know atrocity i started because i was like oh the guy was a fixer and what happens is so i'm really interested in the characters and i and i learned over time that it works for me and it's just what i'm interested i start very very small and i build my way out this is what we need just saying this is this is a really good attitude it was not even just for star wars just for writing but more like how do you how do you respond to people who say like but but no but it is agenda informed even if he said this well that's what we wanted we wanted them to give examples that was the whole thing and you can't do that you're fucking watched it it's gonna be difficult i know there's been a lot of you know there's a lot of political i've been watching the you know the conversations it's fascinating to watch all the conversations that the show is you know engendered over the past couple months but um and i know the show there's all kinds of people that trying to lay claim in different ways to the the politics of the show but you know to me i've been studying history just as an amateur as an idiot amist you know a idiot's home a diy historian for years and you know there isn't anything in our show that isn't going on for 3000 years i mean colonialism slain oppression hard behavior torture whatever it's all there so the great thing about this show is you can sort of needle drop and and do a i could take you know we could take something from the Haitian Revolution you take something from here take something from the the russian revolution so that's all that's the beauty of it and i think it's hilarious that he's pointed out that different people are trying to lay claim to it as like supporting their thing or whatever that's it's just so fucking true with any any story that is particularly well constructed a lot of people are like don't you see it proves my point you're like no it proves my point but then you'll also get people being like it supports this awful thing that we hate so we hate it like oh and meanwhile it's just like oh you know i was just thinking about characters first of all yeah the exploring that struggles general explorations of different realities of human nature clashing is all you can ever really ask for it's what we want from stories general exploration was one of my favorite star wars characters yeah clown war i really liked him that's but my way in is really through character what happens next to the people you care about i'm making you care about them um thinking about your work you know from the cutting edge all the way up through the board i love the cutting edge just yeah come on and that's one of the great rom-coms revolution but anyway just the great rom-coms i don't think that's been fully analyzed yet i'm ready to write the piece that's the episode but you know like seeing you might be working that way it's often these characters who find themselves for one reason or another in a context that they were not necessarily prepared for and now they have to make do with what they have you have the ice skater the you know the hockey player who now can no longer play hockey now has to do figure skating uh you have the spy who uh it you know was brainwashed but now has their agency back and they're cut loose in the world uh in michael clayton you have a guy who's you know the scales fall from his eyes he's a fixer for much bigger figures and realizes he's caught between these two worlds of power and powerlessness and his morality um looking at looking at and or in that in that kind of context i'm really struck by how it's uh it seems like and i know you say you don't you don't start with uh you know with age with any kind of like agenda but i wonder if you might say if you might talk about how you build a character and you know where this kind of character falls and the kind of characters that you've that you've that you've built in the past i love cutting edge again it's a great i mean hopefully they're all unique i mean every single one of them wants to be you know be spoken and and they want to be their own thing i mean i think that uh i think i'd come to believe over time that uh that uh the single most important part of this is empathy and you really you have to be ridiculously empathetic to all of the people that you're building and very and really care about them doesn't matter if they're like modak uh or some chronic or or or or you know or dung dorsi in uh in in the cutting edge you gotta get in there you know you gotta really live it with them and you gotta really so um i i don't have a holistic answer to that i have a very personal every one of them is a little temple and they're all you know that makes it sound pretentious and bullshitty but like they're all they're all real i like him i kind of like him yeah what what's gonna piss me off is if like you get all the people who make this shitty stuff who get more and more and more jobs and this guy doesn't get anything else that's gonna piss me off man i mean he's gonna get season two who knows what that'll look like and then who knows what happens after that um i mean hopefully it ends up i mean god damn i really hope it's good it'd be nice to have like a good complete a little oasis yeah yeah pretty much because that door right now it's like it's a little oasis but it's incomplete right in a certain sense yeah there's still a story pending yeah and i'm sure he's fucking depressed about the fact it's like oh my show's gonna be going down while mando's already on its fourth season because i'm pretty sure isn't it isn't you're the one that said something along the lines of like you wanted to focus there's another quote people were sent around where you wanted to focus on the characters rather than the recognizable aspects of things and stuff like i'm sure there was a quote from him and this one's from like james gunn about how things have become really shit with how it's like recognizing elements instead of you know the heart the character it's really cool that he basically just said like no matter what character he's dealing with he's got to understand them it's got to be like you know work with them walk with them understand them and put the work according to that because you know that really comes across with the villains as well in andos and in partigas is probably one of the better recent villains not just in star wars but you know across a lot of media partigas is you can tell that he's not just been put on screen because the screen needs a generic bad guy this is a guy who is you know he's competent intelligent he has a goal he has self-fulfillment he has his own personal wants he has his own ideological convictions and commitment and that that all comes across in his character who is also you know very well performed but you don't get that unless you're very committed to having empathy with all of your characters and not just you know the conventional heroes of the piece otherwise you you're just given stock villains and no one there's a problem with the recognizable aspects part versus the formation of new character if everyone just keeps making reverences back to recognizable things you're not going to get the next great villain in star wars because everyone is just sitting on the sofa drooling waiting for Darth Vader's next cameo it's about time somebody actually took the time to say yeah who would be the kind of person to head the isb this guy sounds interesting what can we do with him i think that's one of the big problems that disney's kind of running into is that they're sort of they they're really getting to the end of all the fuel they can burn yeah with these live action sequels or remakes with the star wars shows they have they have created such so so little of actual value or merit or anything that's worth watching and they have constantly been roasting for fuel all of the old stuff that people really like that got him here and i just don't it just it doesn't seem to be a sustainable thing it's i mean you see it with the mcu like what do we have left from the golden age so to speak it's it's it's all gone basically i think that's a good point because if you told somebody you know like oh uh there's going to be barba fat season two it's like uh you know like it's like oh shit you you've kind of like you've spent that card but yeah i don't mean anything to you anymore because i don't know if i could just read this quick saying you had read this somewhere because you especially with platoon just mentioning um vader right it's like article star wars how much will hayden christensen be in the isoka show like wait what what really and then you're like uh with the the announced casting including risario dorson natasha louis or diesel i don't know that's just fine um dorson let it slip last year that hayden christensen would be reprising his role as darth vader and anakin skywalker yet again the question on fans minds then is how much will we see him appear just like fuck off and i just don't care don't care so done leave vader alone after kanobi it was it was already way too much it's like yeah but it's philody like i like the idea that they offered vader to gilroy he was like nah i'm all right don't need it god do you think do you think that would piss everyone off or do you think it would play well i don't know at this point well it would play well it wasn't very uh it would play well with us to know that he was offered to have vader in the show and he could have had whole scenes with vader's like hey part of gas you'll do as i say because i'm big and scary and then part of gas goes yes mr vader oh my jeez but he turned it down it's kind of an interesting when people make that choice because that was james gunn got offered everything and he chose to suicide squad right he could have done anything but he got that one or he chose that one it's like huh it's kind of interesting like that you would choose something that doesn't seem like the obvious choice of you know like superman or or in the case of star wars like yeah Darth vader or boba fat or you know everyone well yeah and we've talked about how it's funny how it gets you to a point of would you prefer to take it so that you can at least kind of do something with it where everyone else is doing bullshit but simultaneously it's like no just do whatever you want also i see chat like froze for a long time there i don't know if i was uh everything's still running everything okay um where is chattel right seems to be working a okay i think we're okay yeah i just pulled up yeah it looks like it's fine all righty just check in to me and and uh and they all they couldn't sound like anybody other than themselves and i think you can always tell that when you read someone's writing you know if you read a writer and if the other characters sort of sound the same or if someone's iq goes up and down based on what they want the story to do or whatever oh yes thank you guys come on jeez look at that oh my goodness it's man you're preaching to the choir here at efat man oh jeez thank you whoa that's the entirety of some television it's funny because we'll be like well that's just basic isn't it it's like when do you ever hear this from anyone who's like higher up and fucking any of these things do all the characters sort of sound the same or if someone's iq goes up and down based on what they want the story to do or whatever then you know you're with somebody who's not maybe maybe not uh that i'm not not sticking to the rigor of that good writing that's very not sticking to the rigor of that they're not one of them rigor stickers it's a way to put it where the writers are invested in the people so much that they could only do what they do yeah and something that i found like really unique as from a writing standpoint of andre is this choice of the ox and kind of telling these small stories within the you just wish you could be there to ask a question don't you yeah i do is like to shut the fuck up i'm gonna ask proper questions bigger kind of you know uh what mr gilbert what you said uh lacking vigor or can we can we expand what do you mean did you have somebody in mind what do you think is that yeah what do you think is like the biggest problem facing writing today or what do you think is the worst element of writing and storytelling that seems to be pervasive within the the general storytelling community let's call it uh you know like come on man i feel like there's there's the part of tony that wants to be like oh they all suck they're terrible we almost want to bathe be like the one thing i think your show really is missing is uh good ol vader are you going to bring them in about timed don't you think when are we yeah when are we seeing our fader are we going to see his red lightsaber is it going to glow is it going to go well it's the mandalorian crossover we all want that season could you talk a little bit about that choice and kind of the what why that felt like the best route to go well a lot of people do you know i mean when we started out there were people i remember you know it used to be a i i i i did my tone to television over the last 20 30 years and that were television a couple times tried to do things and then the the dictum always was oh your first episode has to be your 20th episode your first episode has to be i mean that was really what the the old system was and then you know and then you move into a more you know as the stories have gotten more long term and and you know and more complicated there's a different kind of structure for how they work um but i don't think that there's any clear i think everybody's doing everything for the first time now in in many ways i think we're just at the frontier of streaming and we're watching these huge shows i mean these are the beginning of something really new um i don't think there's any rule um about what to do and the way our show laid out it was like well coincidentally directors direct three episodes for us like directors come in and they direct a block of three so it sort of became a weird organizing principle in its own way and you kind of lean into it a little bit we're not perfect because you see in seven we drop seven is a standalone episode and then it got in ten and then our last two episodes will be sort of of a piece a little bit i guess i did think that was weird because i was told it was three three three but it's three three one three two if it yeah because the thing about it is i consider it three three four two but you i could i could see the argument for how because like uh seven ends of them going to the prison like oh it's kind of like the prison yeah laid into it we're not i don't think we're like we're not you know it's not it's not this rigorous strict thing it's kind of the way it laid out and kind of the way it works with the directors and um and i think that there are no rules i think the main rule is do you want to see what happens next that's really yeah that's the rule that matters right yeah well you're you mentioned dipping your toe in tv before obviously this is a tv property you've moved from screenwriting to directing and now your uh showrunner working with directors what's that transition been like and how does it change your perspective i want to ask you a more writing question yeah uh yeah interesting what does it what does it mean to shift from uh like strictly writing to basically running like a whole production with a bunch of different people active as a person who's telling stories yeah i'll talk about that i want to talk about the directing thing because that's an old story for me but showrunning thing is it's fascinating because i was going to direct the first three episodes of this and i was like okay that's what i'm here for and i'll do this and then i'll get them and then you know you realize what the gig is and it was just incredibly naive and and covid really saved our show because we got we got completely shut down and just everything just went on hold for six or seven months and i couldn't come back to london i didn't want to come back to london and direct in the midst there was no vaccine or anything like that at that point and uh it just turned into like okay let's and i started rewriting my episodes and rewriting everybody else's episodes and tuning everything up and and um came time to hire directors and it's i've never i don't understand how that happened when michael waldrin said in the behind the scenes for dr strange 2 that covid made them throw out the script i heard so many times that covid is an excuse for bad productions throughout 2022 i'm guessing that in his case what's happened is like it it happened production got delayed that gave us more time to write well yeah no that's what he said it's just the i guess what i imagine is the case for like other productions is it happened and then the production shifted dramatically to where like certain things became uh less feasible to impossible that would be my guess um that like the script can't work because there's locations that you don't have access to anymore or the schedules of actors have changed to a point that's really disruptive maybe maybe that'd be what they'd be appealing to if you remember the um the quote directly and it was really funny because it's the way i delivered it in the uh doc strange 2 video as well and like i remember chat being like shocked at the first piece of information that it kept getting worse so michael waldrin says he was phoned and he had three weeks to make the script which is already just like fucking hell three weeks i went there enough time three weeks to write a whole screenplay fuck yeah then he found out fuck it i'll just use i'll just take an afternoon whatever hot fuzz by the way i'm pretty sure hot fuzz took 18 months to write back it shows it shows yeah um so yeah then he goes on to say uh the he got cut down by a week he only had two it wasn't three in reality and he's just like fucking hell then you find out that he completes it in the two whatever the hell it was and uh covered hit and then everything got thrown out everything was on pause and that script got thrown out and he said that that script was definitely worse than the one that i came up with once i came back and they were already filming that right absolutely but he came up with a script while they were filming and it feels like in retrospect it's like are you are you not telling me the truth which is that your script prior was useless because they weren't going to build the film based on it they were instead going to build something and then they needed you to bind it all together into some kind of story when you get here like in terms of sets costumes and events they just knew stuff was going to happen they didn't it's not their job to can be concerned with how they connect it's that's your job which yeah which is a fucking like that seems like a really shit way to do it especially when you consider all the hundreds of millions of dollars that will go into the production and they're just like uh just figure it out you just kind of make it all work together and i'm like holy shit like none of you like it's the attitude of no no one who makes these decisions i'm like yeah this is just this is disney's money it's not my money it is it's just kind of uh it's kind of gross isn't it the lack of respect for writing that is on display with that kind of approach yeah this is like creation of art it's just i think writing super important and so it's just really lame when it's that sort of attitude seems to be saying laugh fucking you know we'll fucking figure it out like that it's not like that's the most it's not like we need the fucking scripts to like even know what the story is because the story boiled down to its basics is the shit you write down on the page that people saying do yeah and you have this unprecedented position in human civilization with your level of the power that you have to create not just the kind of art that you can create with the technology in the budget but how instantly it can catch on in culture and expand is like it's just it's never been like this before and you're essentially the you are the the wet dream of anybody who just aspires to create you know influential cultural iconography or just just just anything really and they're just pissing it away no one respects what they have um from what i gather quantum any had the same thing as uh mom in terms of it was written as it was being filmed and the one thing i still don't quite grasp right i get how difficult it would be to even have a good you know quote unquote screenplay when you're coming in as it's being filmed you have to bind everything together the thing i don't get and some people mentioned this in chat is like whenever there's jokes or at least you'll you know that broadly the film is going to have let's say for example Kang and Ant-Man are gonna fight or the Doctor Strange will give some kind of speech to America Chavez that's going to like you know something broad like that you can work on that while you're out while you're waiting you know you can have an idea you could write it down you could sit down with someone and they're like back and forth like i'll be her and you know i'll be mean well let's have a conversation back and forth and we'll we'll tighten this up like you could like you could give a shit it's not you can't work on like that moment where he was sent away for two weeks or whatever until he was asked to come back and then restart like you could still have had like my note sheet and it has a bunch of you know generic jokes that apply to Doctor Strange or um because you must have known broadly what was going to happen Michael Waldron claims that he's the reason why what uh wanders the villain in that film apparently that was what he wanted so it's like so you must that's a lot of control that's not that's not nothing that changes everything so yeah um you know it's interesting to compare that then to this where he's like covid hits and i took the time to just rewrite and retool and tweak all the scripts to better be tighter it's just like wow i mean as you would write instead of just sitting on your ass as you would hope people would do the story yeah we've talked about it before but it's just one of the easiest things if you have all of them lined up all 12 episodes then you're like oh man when this part happens in episode 12 it would mean a lot more if maybe a character mentions this sort of concept back in episode one is there anywhere i can put that it's like oh kind of here there we go now it's this big callback that means a lot more and shows what i'm trying to say it's like oh wow look at that redrafting everybody the funny thing is of course like what's the point in extolling the virtue of fucking redrafting if you don't even draft wow or i guess if you have to redraft 33 times right uh i don't even see that point i don't even think that constitutes redrafting that feels like it's not it's not like reach it's like the script there's not one full script at that point it's not like a document beginning to end it's like some segmented like set of notes at that point it seems back just before and that's a really that's a really fascinating i didn't take it quite as seriously in the beginning as i think i thought it would be easier it's very very difficult you have to watch lots of stuff incredible amount of stuff you have to find a way to parse your way through it um there's an incredible amount of competition between shows because there's so many shows it's really hard to get directors and it's really there's a limited is the implication there that he was watching other shows to find directors because that's interesting as well probably a in the plus column again getting familiar with the people who make the thing you're going to be right in or he might be directors i better watch shows to find directors it might be the sheer amount of footage he had to review as well maybe like on any given day right off you shoot you review what you've done figure out what you keep and and then like going through the editing process maybe that number of directors who have you know we need directors who have a certain amount of flight time you know you can't it's this is like flying a 747 you can't just can't so so we have a different criteria than they had to be okay just gives anyone at this point it was just like it's very things were so bad unanticipatedly Steve you do it lucked out the first time around i think we've lucked out this time around we have we have three new directors that are coming back for this for this uh the second half we start shooting in november but um man it's it's i'll tell you one thing it's the competition is really really tough to find people that not to find if you have a smaller show well you could swing away and be loose you know i think but you can't figure out how to do this show on the job not not i love that it's so weird yeah it's so funny we've got to organize everything and get it all scheduled to make sure everything's right then there's fucking cloud marvel over there just being like wow let's just do it all as we go and i say that as if it's not applicable to star wars shows too that's obviously what momofet and kanobi did on the fly do whatever yeah just scraping it together yeah right it's just it's just like too many people just drown so the the the then diagram of what you're looking for it's a very and then everybody's after the same people so it's very tricky that and it was the such a like long like you talked about you know being shut down by cove with this new experience of a showrunner searching for these directors how did it and obviously the nature of filming a show like this is very different to a smaller film or a smaller show how did it feel once you started to see the fully finished episodes and kind of see the end of that first part of the journey of making the first season well i mean quite honestly i have to i mean i've been on it for three years now and in the middle of it you know i'll be honest you're just wondering what did i do to my life yeah yeah yeah i mean and i mean seriously is it worth it i mean waking up many many days going like what have i done i could be doing anything i want to do i can go into britain to play i could make a movie i could what am i doing what did i do to my life is it worth it and it really really wasn't until you know about a year ago yeah i wonder how much like michael waldron and people like that like really look back at their work and go man that's something to be proud of i made multiverse of matt i wrote multiverse of madness isn't that incredible i wrote loki these are just such incredible you know stories and i really was able to show my talent this is really good stuff here i could be proud of this for years to come i don't know or do they just treat it like it's a job you know i got paid i showed up i did the work and you know the movie got made and you know i'm still here so you know that's good you know how much do you really care you know how much really goes into it it's kind of interesting if i were the interviewers here um the two that these repeated this what like three times like is it worth it i i would not be laughing at this point i'd be waiting for him to finish and then it'd be like um you know is that something that you consider to be integral to when you choose a project it has to mean something has to become something and you have to see that that you know is a potential because it sounds very serious to him and it's funny to bring up michael waldron i was going to do it in a different way i was going to be like do you think he's ever had the thought like oh look at all this time and effort that i've put into this is it going to be worth it it's like i doubt it right because he's brought on he'll be filming and you'll be fucking around maybe write some jokes here and there but briefly write some form of a connecting scene it's like yeah dr strange he falls into a portal now he's in new york city but it's not the same one it's got flowers and then he goes to the sanctum sanctorum and then he gets captured now he's in the luminati that's the next set they're doing i have no idea what's going to happen in the third act they just have to tell me what sets we've got and then i'll figure something out you know and how long does that even take as a process is it it's done so quickly yeah it'd be stressful it's going to be done relatively quick compared to this guy who's spending three years doing a season of tv when he could have done theoretically like several maybe episodes of different tv shows or a film or you know and it's like oh wow that's so much more interesting to explore compared to michael who probably feel i feel bad shit on him so much like it's i mean is he made one of the worst scripts in history but theoretically it's not even a script it's just a you know a bunch of random thoughts trying to piece something together the uh the disparate nature of the approach of the work ethic here is insane and um they're under the umbrella both of them of disney he sounds like he actually cares about the creative process and making something that you know he could be proud of and that means something and it's like yeah it's like a night and day difference so we really did start to put the episodes together in a kind of way that we could actually sort of and solve some of the you know really some of the visual effects started coming in we started these seven and my brother john is sort of the over the post production overlord so you know once the show started to come together and we could look at them in a whole piece and have other people outside of our little tiny community look at them it started to be like oh my god maybe this is really worth it and that that's the feeling more than anything else of like oh my god i haven't wasted the last three years because it really was times along the way where you you could get on a movie you could be on a movie and you could hate the people that you're business with or you could whatever you could survive it now there's so many questions i want to ask this guy yeah it's just interesting to hear and basically be dishonest about the amount of doubt that he had and yeah the thing that he was creating of like honestly seriously wondering like what the fuck am i making here like what am i doing what's the point of all this on late so eventually come out on the other side with something that's super worthwhile and valuable it's making a movie seems like nothing you know this is like you're just oh my god i'm on a wailing version a wailing mission i'm in papa 80 and how am i ever going to get back to to nantucket you know yeah well tony you made something really really right uh we're big fans of those funny and congratulations on the show we can't wait to see how it ends all right thank you so much this was cool thank you thank you well god if i could get him on or like a writer something like this on it'd be like oh shit like guys we're gonna have to like we gotta think of some really like what questions has easy probably sick of answering we're not gonna answer them ask them those where do you get your ideas from where do you get your this thing you're making is like it's a tv show right what's that like what does television mean to you what do you uh do are we gonna see any wudu hide and season i certainly hope so oh man yeah i just uh that was interesting it was yeah what a what a cool dude i hope uh yeah i'm i hope he gets something really cool to work on next because obviously um i mean crossed the fingers that and or season two is good and when it ends everybody's like oh that's incredible and it has this legacy but you gotta put that off okay let's be clear they don't put the crackers on the pizza the crackers are in a separate pat they're like saltine little square saltines that are often brought with or given freely to people like on the side just so we're clear like a little plastic packet like the kind of thing they give you at like you know like a pizza place that also makes salads like they would they would give you those and they just get they just hand them out they just hand out crackers which is so weird we don't get that we get dip at best and that's it you have to order chips separately i like how mad rags is like mad both in terms of anger and losing his mind i am not losing my mind my mind is secure i am stalwart in my in my grasp on reality all right whatever like fringy looks the most stalwart in this you know he's got it he knows us up he's determined the truth where and where in in that very accurate artist depiction of the scene where in that pizza box are the chips oh yeah they're on the you see they're on the crackers see crack is even sorry yes yeah you can see them yeah yeah they're on the pizza what do you think though i thought they were in a separate box you said that's what i'm no no they're not on the pizza they come with it but not on it in their own little little plastic you know packaging like you know like saltines do no okay look drink is convinced i think yeah drinkers buying it sol tipsy that's all he knows what's up um and so i guess closes our wonderful adventure through andor that was uh not exactly 100 expected but i was always interested in talking about um you know its its role in the middle of star wars and this will be a nice run up to when we eventually get season two hopefully it'll be good fingers cross i hope so too cross it was it was it was what he was saying in that interview regarding season two because he said the second half dude didn't he yeah i'm guessing at season two yeah so yeah i hope so and i hope that what was implied by what he said was that he got he said he got lucky again with the the teams he's managed to draw together for it so so i guess you won't have as much time to do the script this time maybe uh unless unless we get another code but the yeah who knows what the process will be for that i don't know um how do we get to that end point that we want if you know we don't have as many seasons to do it what do we leave behind and when when will we get obi one canopy season two and boba fat season two we have to we got to see boba fat and lightsabers and flashbacks with hayden christianson and uh and we got to see poo clune uh and yaddle jumping around this is drawn by bail in by the way frank is curious yeah the style is very clear and gorgeous pizza pizza um like pizza on that note that draws us to the end of this wonderful e-fab uh as as is the now going to be the style going forward i've mentioned a couple times but it's pretty much going to be the way that we do it is the wednesdays will just be the episode or an episode super chats and i'm thinking we might even be able to maybe combo up the episodes memes into that as well that might actually sort out our problem of running behind on memes that would make some sense because the most of the memes will have come out by then so when we record you know i was thinking that i'm gonna race it up and um it gives us more time to be able to cool down and recharge between each of everything that happens um yep because we're still four hours is still a long podcast damn it is it is a four hour podcast that was that was four hours and you're here like it's short it needs to be 10 we did that that was very long how long have you guys been doing those b-sup episodes what's your average on them um i don't know i think the average is probably between three and four the longest is five the shortest is probably three i was not on the longest sad face sad no i think that it did prove to be the longest but we just ended up going off the rails with super chats after you left so that was the longest episode you were on the longest episode but you were not present for the long part of it yeah i think that yeah that's i'm figuring it out still in my head i think sorry i was vaguely distracted by gilroy said he stepped away from handle because of the strike it's like that wouldn't surprise me he probably stand with the strike and stuff i mean he's clearly very writing focused so i'm sure yeah he's gonna talk about how they need to you know get better pay and all that sort of stuff like i said i don't know this exact specifics of how much each person is being paid or whether or not there's right things going on but i know that the actors are considering or have gotten involved in striking as well hollywood's a bit of a mess so um yeah andle's probably on pause take it up do something you gotta do better as falcon would tell them you gotta do better hollywood um but yeah by the way i i i don't know enough about tony gillroy to say how much i you know like him as not only from his work or everything that he says i'm just saying from what we've seen in that interview he seemed pretty cool yeah he seemed like a cool guy i have a i think there's a lot of cool questions you could ask him and he seems like the kind of person where you'd really want to see what he thinks behind clothing like private conversation like man like between you and me like just tell me everything that i think that i suspect you want to get off your chest god yeah you can imagine some of the stuff you might be able to get out of him you don't have to name names tony just say name names and shows name them uh all right do it so before we head out little platoon thank you so much for joining us why don't you tell chat what you've been up to or what have you been making lately i know what you've been making lately because i've watched it it's your uh uh peter pan video where you savaged that innocent film yeah yeah oh god that was an absolute nightmare with copyright that should have been out two weeks before it was out i spent two weeks trying to get past copyright it claimed four second clips and blocked them it claimed two three second clips as one full clip and blocked those and in the end i thought suddenly i'd appealed the weeks before and so that went up in the end so that was an adventure it was only supposed to be a short little side thing but um you know yeah next one is going to be i've on a disney binge so the little mermaid has come out i saw that yesterday um which meant i had to rewatch the original which i don't really like a huge amount anyway but i also got to reread the fairy tale which i do like so um that is it's not release i think next monday um and then i have a huge backlog of stuff because i still need to do guardians at some point and mando part two as well at some point so there's a lot of stuff coming and then we do beast up live every monday night so plenty of stuff coming but thank you for having me on again it's always great fun always a pleasure to have you well what's um i remember you had one of the more controversial guardians takes didn't you it's not going to reflect the video i think so i mean it's it's i want to rewatch it just to confirm a few things but essentially that film is that there's one very strong arc within it the rest of the film is just a hot spot mess of various things that should probably have been separated out into at least one or two more films and it felt a bit sort of perfunctory and played as safely as possible really like this has happened before this is a guardian's bit this bit must be in because hey why the hell not um so i like the rocket stuff but the rest of it is yeah so far all righty uh well again thank you so much for for joining us and for giving your insights on all things and or and otherwise uh rags springy anything you wanted to say before we close out um i suppose not just kind of working on some stuff in the back hopefully i'll have some things out soon smaller things probably before the big thing and then we'll see what happens after that but uh yeah progress is getting made so every day is a day closer to when it's finished um yeah you know the deal i'm just working yeah i like to try and find something to give as a form of an update but the the grand update is just you'll like it when it's done and uh it's it's be it there's a thing being worked on and it's it's long and takes a lot it's just every day at this point uh and the grind the grind indeed um you know and we love doing uh efap related things and you're gonna be getting a lot more of them as time goes on as well uh the it's a fucking horror right now there are i don't mind saying this totally fine there are four efap movies and um the supercut of mando i'm cycling them all i put them in youtube says no i don't like this part and i'm like cool sort out put it back in and it's like no i don't like this part literally rendering uploading back and forth over and over and over again some of them or do i love it when they they say it's fine it's good and then a week later they're like i don't like this part it's like oh cool now these are videos some of them that you might not even see for a fucking year but this is happening it's annoying as hell and i'm just working while it's getting done there's so much efap content you would have seen by now if you know not for the copyright system as platoon was just saying it's a fucking nightmare and it's almost randomly a nightmare you can't fully learn it you'll always get caught up with random shit where it's just like oh we've changed our minds this is a rule now and it's like yeah like tell me what the fucking rules are out is like i might obey them if i knew what they were so um yeah the uh the hope was to get the supercut out before starting to release gartham knights which uh frankly will just give more time to the editor to be able to get them done as well there's more stuff that's on the way but it's starting to look like this year will be more of a prep year for a lot of stuff while i'm getting copyright sword and then everything will be ready to shoot out to you guys in a more consistent way and we'll be looking back at now being maybe a time where less you know things came out in terms of uh frequency but that plenty of funds because they did get the wings boogie thing all right that that was the thing that happened and all of my war in that was that was a strong occasion yeah so um like i said work is constantly being done to try and get stuff done um the famed war movie arc it's happening it's getting there and part of what i'm referring to in terms of this copyright stuff is all that we're getting there folks and what a wonderful time it'll be when i can release to you perhaps a trailer that will show you everything that we've got coming but it's really funny because i can't imagine what it would be like to be a viewer sometimes with like they'll hear from gary or from drinker or from az or from jay long bone or whatever it's like oh yeah i watched thingy last night with the efap guys recorded this like jesus christ how many fucking efap movies have been recorded it's like you don't want to know but they're coming they're all coming gonna be it's gonna be a thing to enjoy i am certain of it and meanwhile of course mainline stuff is gonna be happening too so hang in there and uh i suppose we'll see you in the next efap related thing if not other streams who knows what will happen next yeah i was siding yes on that note everyone we shall see you next time goodbye everyone see you later