 to the flags of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Next we'd like to introduce the committee members and our staff. We start down on the other end with Don Sweeten, Mike Van der Steen, Mayor of City of Sheboygan and Chairman. Janet Dolvin with City Development. Jerry Jones, Vice-Chairman, City of Sheboygan and Dave Offman, Citizen Member. All right, Jim Warren. Thank you very much. Next, does anyone have any potential conflict of interest with the items on our agenda today? Seeing none, then we'll move on to the minutes. Looking for a motion to approve the Planning Commission minutes from our last meeting on September 10th. Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the minutes? Seeing none. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion passes, approving the minutes from September 10th. Next is items for discussion and possible action. Item 3.1 is a conditional use and variance application by the Kiefer Starlight to install an interior lit projecting sign for Wigwan-Willemills at 3402 Crocker Avenue. All right. Steve? All right. Tyler Neubauer is here as well as Randy Miller from Wigwan and what we're taking a look at is this is a sign that Wigwan has already installed at their site. One of the things that they were hoping for is if you take a look at the site plan, it's a 11-square foot projecting sign and what they're asking for is for the sign itself to have the ability to be interior lit. A lot of times with our projecting signs we don't allow for interior lit projecting signs and in this particular item what you can see is as many people may or may not know, Wigwan has created a retail component at their facility and that retail section is located at the west end of their property and there's some concerns with the customers coming in there compared to the Wigwan traffic in terms of their truck traffic and things of that nature. When you look at the site plan you can see that the sign is approximately about 400 feet from Crocker Avenue so that was one of the reasons why Wigwan was taking a look at wanting to light that sign so that they could direct people specifically to that new retail area. I don't know if many people were going there on Thursdays and visiting their buying socks and going to a different entrance but they've created that retail space on the west side and basically what they want to do is make sure people can adequately find it so staff is recommending approval of the interior lit projecting sign and the applicants are here. Thank you for that report Steve. Would the applicants like to respond to anything or add anything to that report? Please come up to the podium. Yeah my name is Tyler Newbauer on behalf of Wigwan Mills I'm with Keeper Starlight Science and just to pretty much I think Steve did a pretty good job of explaining exactly that really we're looking to direct traffic once they're actually on the lot already to get to the entrance being that I say newer entrance and a newer concept having the retail area in Wigwan Mills at this building there's not really much visibility of that west end of the building at all you have maybe about 150 feet or so on the actual street we can physically see it at all and when it's dark there's being also a black sign it's you know dang near impossible to see so safety hazard right there also as you can see actually in the renderings you can see there's actually freight entrances right around the signage so is this a bit of a safety concern making sure we get the potential customers directed to the actual correct entrance on the building um and a bit of a hardship obviously for the client as well as far as being able to make their sales to make sure they get the clients to the correct entrance so just a bit more background on that for you guys thank you very much Tyler commissioners do you have any questions Tyler okay all the person born thank you mayor I was just going to make a motion to approve conditions thank you for that motion is there support thank you Jerry further any further discussion next is Marilyn Montemayer thank you and I'm glad you have the sign because it was hard to find you the first time thank you all right next is David Hoffman so if you're driving into one of the other two entrances to the parking lot is there any additional signage to direct you to the west side of the building not really so there's one directional sign as you come into the property um that says entrance wig while mills I don't think it's so specific you know it's not so much specifying and the drawings are funny let me check to make sure but um so we do have one that's not illuminated um again during the daytime not a problem it can get you into the lot but once you're at the lot because the entrance it is you know where it is in the west side of the building even that once you're in the lot you still have no idea we're gonna go to get to the retail spot correct so although there is a directional sign that gets you there it gets you about halfway there and then the rest is you know getting to the actual spot which is right over the entrance door is this side sign that we're here talking about today so just to clarify okay thank you no problem anyone else on this any neighbors okay if you'd like to take the lecture step up to the lectern now this is on this issue correct I agree with Marilyn I had a terrible time finding it as it is GPS and I almost went home so I'm really glad that if the sign goes up it'll be easier to find thank you for those comments um I entertain a motion we have one on the floor excuse me and um it's seen no more discussion all those in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye opposed motion passes thank you everyone good luck with your your project we're happy to see this new business on a regular basis rather than once a month item 3.2 is a conditional use and variance application by work it own it by LLC to operate the first floor real estate office and second floor office or apartment at 2516 Calumet Drive Steve all right thanks bear um we have Bob Sexton Nick Kane and Kathy Kane that are here and I'm sure many people have seen these individuals before whether it's cane auctions or the real estate company what they're taking a look at is this is at 2516 Calumet Drive and this used to be Mary Anjali's wedding shop the um Keynes and are taking a look at this to operate Avenue real estate and they could probably speak to you a little bit more about Avenue real estate but basically it's working with people on residential commercial investment real estate working with their buyers and sellers from around the area and conducting real estate auctions for their auction business um it's my understanding that there hasn't been a great city presence and this a city of Sheboygan presence and that this office building which is presently vacant will give them that opportunity to to have a city presence a lot of their work obviously is out at their sites but as people are doing the different real estate or investment property discussions this gives them an office in the city to have those discussions to take place so that that use you know they could have uh is something that they could just move into this spot and operate but there's also the opportunity for them to potentially use the second floor space as far as a second tenant whether that would be a commercial tenant or potentially an apartment so um basically what they want to do the previous user of that I believe at one time it may have been an apartment and then the wedding shop used it for uh storage and things like that so this would give um work it own it the opportunity to work in addition to their first floor office space the opportunity to potentially work with another tenant or an apartment uh person that'd be interested in in a residential unit so staff was recommending approval of the proposal subject to the conditions you have before you and I can't any questions the applicants are here I don't know if there's any neighbors for this one mayor thank you very much Steve the applicant want to make any comments to add on to Steve's report as they have a new real estate there again certainly appreciate the opportunity to be here with in front of all of you here today and appreciate the great summary there Steve I guess just from from our opinion there and things it's a great opportunity as stewards of the of the county here and members of the shabuagan plymouth and alcard chambers just want to be instrumental pieces to the community here and find a great opportunity to find a bigger place an opportunity to to help those residents of shabuagan thank you mayor yeah I think this is going to be a very good location for your for your real estate office but I did have a couple questions on the building as far as accessibility and the front of the building you got those three steps that come up from the sidewalk and there's I'm just wondering if I have a couple suggestions but do you have any ideas about making the building a little more accessible my first concern would be the steps in front that come right off the sidewalk those three steps there do not have a a railing and for some individuals it would be hard to make those steps and I see the front porch has railings that shouldn't be a problem and then I'm wondering in the back of the building it looks like that's the back door is at grade so I guess that would make it easier for people if you're going to have that back door open for customers that might help people get in my question is once you walk in the back door is the office right there or would there be additional two or three steps to go up to get to the office sure great question there jim too and that was one thing that we did consider in the in the rear of the building there and things to make sure that we can soon thereafter potentially make it very handicap accessible there and then once the grade is met into the back of the property there's the hallway that is on that same parallel there until the office space coming through the building thank you thank you for that information I guess I'd be looking for a motion on this thank you Marilyn David thank you very much okay we have a motion on the floor one last call for any discussion Steve anything one one last item I forgot to address was the signage that they were proposing if you take a look in your packets or on screens there Mary Angelis previously had a pylon sign and what the applicant is looking to do is to enclose the post of that pylon sign box that up and then put on a new obviously cabinet for for their use and staff did not have an objection to that so staff just wanted to make sure the planning commission was aware that this sign was a part of their proposal in terms of what they're asking approval for as well thank you very much Steve so with that the condition to use and variance application is before us including the sign is there any other discussion all those in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye opposed and chair votes aye motion will pass thank you very much good luck with your project next is uh item 3.3 a conditional use application by Jeremiah and Nicole Reynolds to operate escape Sheboygan at 11 33 Indiana Avenue Steve Jeremiah and Gus Reynolds are here today this evening I believe there's neighbors here for this one as well mayor so the plan commission may recall that in the fall of 2017 Jeremiah had come in for escape Sheboygan off of Geely Avenue at that time he was leasing that facility was their their plan was to operate the business and assess the direction that they would go see if they would have some success with it which they have had and based on that success the Reynolds have started to look at other properties and what we're taking a look at is the 1133 Indiana Avenue property this was the former mixed retail facility this building has been vacant for five to ten years potentially it's been too long anyways Jeremiah had the opportunity to take a look at this and believe that this facility would fit well for the amusement facility that he's looking to create part of it would be the creation of the four to five escape rooms which he did on Geely Avenue in addition to that this building also allows him to create on the second floor the ability to have a 4,000 square foot axe throwing bar so I'll probably let Jeremiah speak to that a little bit more in terms of what that is but staff had taken a look at this and and again the the facility's been vacant for a number of years Indiana Avenue obviously is one of our key corridors that we're looking for reinvestment in there's an opportunity here a couple things just to mention there is the discussion about taking a look at serving beer and wine so that's a possibility in addition to this so you just have to obtain the required licenses to do that and then the only other question that we've spoken about is a little bit on the west side of the building there's quite a bit of a former glass block windows that have been covered with plywood and and painted black so one of the conditions that staff is talking about is working with the applicant I know the applicant was interested he hasn't had the opportunity to see what's exactly behind there to see if it's the glass block he's interested in trying to get something done on there so one of the things is there is a condition that talks about that and and to hopefully if there's the glass block windows to bring those back out so staff was recommending approval of the project that you have before you the applicants here and then there is a neighbor here for this one as well thank you very much Steve uh Jeremiah would you like to make any additions to Steve's report please step to the podium uh my name is Jeremiah Reynolds I currently own Escaped Sheboygan on 1130 Geely Avenue as Mr. Sokolowski said I actually remember some of the faces here who approved us back in 2017 thanks for that we decided to open the the shop on Geely Avenue knowing that it was probably too small if it was successful but it was a responsible wading into the water versus an investment the size that I'm looking at doing now since we opened one year and four days ago thousands of people from Sheboygan County and hundreds of people from various corporate groups that have come into one of the various resorts have enjoyed our services and the expansion that we're asking for is a significant investment in the Indiana Avenue corridor is going to present an opportunity for us to have more games available to players because at this point the business model for two games is a little tight and the unique layout of the building really presents a great opportunity for the axe throwing bar I'm happy to answer any questions about escape rooms but I know that many of you are already familiar with those because we've got one axe throwing bars are similar in nature to bowling alleys in the sense that people come there for a specific purpose they do that specific purpose and then they leave the the component that has a bar won't be as big as any of the bars that you know we have seen in in our bowling alleys that we've had on the north and south sides of Sheboygan a small correction for Mr. Sokolowski we will be applying for a beer permit not a not a wine permit and certainly not a liquor permit our expected hours of operation are going to be Thursday through Sunday Thursday Friday and Saturday closing by 10 my goal is not to operate a full-fledged bar my goal is to have an entertainment venue for people to go to and then close down much like restaurant hours I think that is a pretty good explanation if there are any questions I'm happy to answer them I understand we've got some people from the neighborhood I'd love to hear their thoughts and answer any questions that anybody may have thank you very much Jeremiah commissioners any discussion Jerry thank you mayor a couple of questions for you there at the location we're looking at what are do you have any concerns about parking how many I guess attendees would you have in the building at one time right so I've been talking to Mr. Iroq in building inspection about occupancy and because the building is so large it can seem like it would be full of hundreds of people but in order to acquire the the occupancy they have agreed to do stated occupancy so we're going to have two separate sections of the building for fire code and life safety so the ax throwing bar is going to have stated occupancy of 99 although full capacity for ax throwing is probably going to be around 85 and then downstairs we're looking at a total capacity of like 20 people just because there are going to be three games and there's always a group leaving there's always a group leaving there's always a group coming hopefully there's always a group coming but the that was a concern 12th street offers some parking Indiana Avenue offers a lot of parking and it's going to be kind of similar to the other buildings on Indiana Avenue that don't have their own dedicated lots with regards to the corporate events I noticed you have limited hours when would you be hosting any of the corporate the company events that are coming in I've been to the ax throwing in Milwaukee I'd say overwhelmingly it's 80 percent is a company brings in their employees for interaction so that's normally a Monday through Friday operation you're open Thursday through Sunday how will that affect you yeah right so the the the corporate events have always been by appointment and they all they almost always go outside of stated hours I've always kind of said I'm I'm ready to open up shop when when you're interested in coming and I would say of those corporate events are typically between the hours of two o'clock in the afternoon and six o'clock at night because usually they have dinner plans and they want they want to get out of my location so that they can go somewhere and eat sometimes people will bring their own food in but that's not as common that's not as common but the short answer to your question is I schedule a lot of my corporate events during my non-stated hours my stated hours are for what I consider leisure guests or people who are booking for entertainment purposes I should also like to add that I have had one request in a year for a third shift operation and it has not panned out so in in a year of hunt fielding dozens and hundreds of requests I've never done anything for a corporate group after you guys were probably my latest probably like 8 30 so okay scene nine I'd accept a motion on this okay we have a motion in a second down at the far end any other discussion seeing none all those in favor of the motion please signify by C&I chair votes aye opposed we just asked for people to speak I'm sorry I didn't see you please come up to the lectern throwing axes I got enough trouble with rushes they make plenty of noise they got their employees there all night long working on their private cars in the garage I'd go there last night over to Robert Dave Oldenburg's place and complain about the noise and the spray painting that he does in the middle of the night well I'm going to have to put up with this too I have a house that has eight windows in front and the house the house is it's a sitting room in front I I don't want to look at parked cars I don't want to dumpster like in previous times behind on the side of me eight feet from my bedroom windows I'm so upset about this I can't even talk I I mean how would you feel I got all these businesses I've got to the east honald and the page I got rushes then I got this kind of a noisy business where I'm sure teenagers will be coming to and then alcohol on top of it and when they had their estate sales down there people would park come and go come and call empty out their ash trays they would break CDs throw CDs and the cars would run over I'm going to be tons of little tiny little pieces that I had to pick up garbage on thrown in my bushes and did people from the estate sales they were running them clean up no I had to it's it's better enough I got to clean up twice a week where I live because people are tossing things out the windows all the time and I don't think it's fair to me to be enclosed by all these businesses I've got the laundromat I've got the Hispanic grocery store down there and it's just parking people parking all over it's even a dangerous situation with the Hispanic grocery store there was a person killed last year making a turn in there just complete total traffic there it's no I don't think it's fair to me I'm not a shaboy good if this happens to me I've had enough and ma'am could I get your name please Jane Weber okay Jane thank you very much for your comments okay we'll take another first of all we'll offer Jeremy a chance to respond may I address the neighbor I know I'm supposed to talk to the committee but I if with your permission she's on her way out oh fair enough um uh addressing the the concerns I have an alley house and pick up trash behind my behind my locator behind where I live all the time I can truly appreciate that but what I can say about myself is this will be the second operation within the city limits that I have operated this will be the third business within the county that I have operated my family used to own an operate Libby's house senior assisted living facility in Plymouth we still own the one in Calumet County and through our careers we have not been nothing but responsible stewards of our location responsible stewards of our property and I am from Sheboygan I want nothing more than to add more to Sheboygan and should my neighbors approach me with uh concerns I'm happy to address them as they come with regards to the other neighbors making noise late at night my goal is to be out of there by 10 o'clock every night because I've got I've got kids in a family to support um Steve and I have worked diligently and I've worked very hard with the building inspector department to make sure I'm doing everything by the book I never want to redo anything and I never want to be in the city's bad graces so if you have any follow-up questions with any of the neighbors concerns I'm happy to field any of your questions thank you Jeremiah okay is there any other discussion then we'll re-vote all those in favor please signify by saying aye opposed chair votes aye motion passes next we'll move on to a conditional use and variance application for Altmire Electric to construct a new off-site parking lot adjacent to their facility at 827 south 21st street parcel 5928129370 Steve thanks mayor um Dennis Altmire is here from Altmire Electric and Joe Bernowski from JB site design so what we're taking a look at is a property that's at 813 south 21st street this is um just to the south of New Jersey avenue by the department of public works kind of in the wildwood uh softball area in that area um Altmire has been there for many years and there was a home at 813 south 21st street that was in pretty rough shape to say if kindly um and uh they elected to purchase that property because they were in need of some additional storage um since that time they've purchased the price and demolished the single family home in order to provide for some additional space for their vehicles that they're utilizing at their different um job sites um one of the uh issues is is that um it takes a little bit of time to uh gravel that area and then they're looking to have that paved um another one of the issues if we if we could get the one that's the overhead photo the aerial yeah um Altmire does the arrow show up on there I don't know Chad if you could just show where Altmire is which is right there and then could you point this alley out so there's an alley and that uh right between Altmire and that's there's the single family home is right there that they're looking at the parking lot and so one of the things that they would like to do is they want to pave that uh uh single family a lot for their parking lot but they also want to have the opportunity to speak to the city about that alley and whether or not there would be the consider a vacation of that alley since they would own both sides of it and what they would like to do with that is instead of say for example just simply paving the parking lot if there's an ability to work with the city if we would be consider vacating it they may have the ability then to own that and pave that all instead of paving up to a gravel alley and then having a gravel alley and and so that's one of the things they're hoping for but if they if we can't do that what they're looking at is just paving that parking lot it's about 3000 square feet there will be a 10 foot um buffer on the north side which is the side that faces the existing dwelling um other than that uh staff was recommending that uh they would be allowed a date of July 10th of 2020 to actually pave the parking lot so that there's an ability to have that uh parking lot settled this year and for them to have the time to see if they can vacate it and this would allow them the ability to pave that parking lot at that time so staff was recommending approval of the proposal uh subject to the conditions i can answer any questions the applicants are here i don't know if there's any neighbors here for this one thank you very much steve is there any discussion or questions on this one uh ryan says ma yeah it's probably a question for joe with the vacation of the alley did you ever look this is there any utilities in there at all or anything like that so that'll make things easier so that discussion could you please step to the podium sir welcome to the podium hi i'm denis altmar i do believe that the neighbor i don't know the address but the neighbor that has the property that also uses the alley that's his only access to his parking area so i don't believe he would be for vacating the alley i believe he would want that maintained so that he has access to his his his uh property uh what we wouldn't mind doing is you know either would the city pave the alley if we paved the parking lot or would we be allowed to pave the alley with our parking lot and still maintain it for access for the other tenant yeah i think the paving of the alley if you want to do it that's something we can definitely work out other other other alley people are yes i don't know that anybody that the neighbor would probably not be a for vacating the alley so yeah just just work with public works we can you work that out right okay dave did you have a question okay all right scene is there's no other discussion is there any neighbors here on this one all right i'd entertain a motion thank you for that motion in support i have one last call for any discussion jerry uh steve did we need to include in our motion your date of july 10 2020 for completion or is that just a suggestion thanks jerry um i think that was one thing that allowed us just to have the conversation with regards to the vacation um i think i think it would be good to maintain that in there uh as a condition of approval if they would if we find out if they would want to pave it earlier they certainly can do that but if there's the option that hey all of a sudden we discuss the vacation and that goes into winter of the year before we find out that you know obviously paving season is not happening at that point in time so that was the reason why staff had put that date okay thank you so then we're including the date in the motion is that correct our motioners okay very good and uh and we're not dealing with the alley vacation that'll be something separate from this if anything happens in that area okay any other discussion seeing none all those in favor please signify by saying aye opposed chair votes aye motion passes thank you very much item 3.5 uh van horn real estate is proposing a minor building and site plan amendment to the previously approved conditional use and variance application to construct the kingsbury village apartments on the vacant undeveloped parcel located at the southwest corner of wisconsin avenue and north 10th street uh the former kingsbury brewery property steve all right chris marklin is here from van horn steve pesky of uh distinctive design and joe brunowski from jb site design and i believe there are neighbors here for this one um as a plan commission is aware we had approved this on august 13th of 2019 um the alpkins will probably be able to speak to this a little bit better than i can but what they're here for today is to take a look at some minor uh adjustments to the mechanical room um basically what has taken place is the relocating the mechanical room on building three which is the building along north 10th street the mechanical room was previously on the north side of that building and now you can see on the highlighted section it's on the south side of the building um they're adding a mechanical room on building one which is the riverside and it's the south side of the riverside building and then there is no change to the mechanical building that was on building two which remains at the intersection of 10th and wisconsin so the site plan is basically staying virtually the same as what everyone looked at previously it's just uh those modifications in terms of the relocation of those mechanical rooms so that's the extent of this staff was recommending approval subject to the conditions that you had previously approved and the applicants are here and there's neighbors here as well on this one thank you very much steve christ would you like to add anything to that presentation please step to the podium uh thank you um no i really don't have much to add other than that for architectural and for underground utility reasons we deemed it a good decision to move those mechanical rooms to to where they're shown on the new plans yeah thank you very much chris is there any discussion commissioners seeing none i'd entertain a motion and a second very good the motion's on the floor are there any neighbors here that have any comments on this seeing none then oh please come to the podium uh just give us your name please i'm k jeleneck i live at 1022 wisconsin just down below here thank you and i'm just a curious person and i want to continue to know what's going on so that's it all right thank you is there any other discussion seeing none all those in favor the motion please signify by saying aye chair votes aye opposed motion passes item 3.6 is a conditional units and variance application by green street development group llc to construct the oscar apartment complex at 1436 south 15th street the vandervaard property turn it over to steve for some comments all right uh joel oliver is here from green street development corporation i don't know if joel has any other individuals here there are a number of neighbors here that are interested in this particular project as well so you guys are all gonna have to bear with me um so green street has been this is the word talking about the vandervaard property um obviously vandervaard is in still in operations this is a 200 and approximately 250 unit apartment development project basically what they're taking a look at is the concept the concept is to restrict the asking of rents on a majority of the units this would include more units one bedroom than they would typical market rate or i'm sorry uh the proposed rents would be 990 to 1600 and the value of the project is approximately 45 million dollars um green street's greatest strength is redeveloping challenging projects and shows this one because it has a potential for a project with enough scale to truly improve the surrounding area the site is currently utilized by vandervaard concrete products there's an office building showroom building two warehouses garage building outdoor storage and significant areas for staging and crushing of contract concrete vandervaard is in the process of constructing a new facility and green street will enter into a short term lease with vandervaard which will allow the continued use of several portions of the site during 2021 uh this will facilitate the migration to their new facility and allow green street to begin construction of the oscar again this is a multi-family portion of the development consists of 248 apartments constructed in four standalone buildings consisting of 180 unit building and 356 unit buildings each building will be approximately four stories with the maximum rich height of 49 feet there would be a total of 458 parking spaces there would be nine free standing garages with 200 spaces 53 carports and a bounce is 205 surface spots north south 15th and south 16th currently connected into the site would remain in place and will connect to a main drive through the site which will also connect and be relocated curb cut on broadway avenue the new entrance uh the new main entrance off of broadway will be through you can see there's a uh a separate parcel that's to be created it's possible that there could be a quick trip or other potential commercial use of that property at the southeast corner of the site referred to as lot b um we are not there's nothing under consideration this evening for any type of project on that parcel um green street has commissioned a traffic study um which will be completed by october 1st uh the site's prime location presence are unique and exciting opportunity allowing the redevelopment of this vacant and underutilized parcel into market into housing opportunities um i'll let the developer talk a little bit in terms of some of the uses of the different buildings as far as some of the buildings that they plan on maintaining that vandal art has on the site for amenities um so again there'd be 128 unit one bedroom units 112 two bedroom units and eight three bedroom units um the ingress like we talked about is at 15th and 16th and broadway there's the potential for our commercial development at the southeast corner plan commission should be aware that this development will require a developer's agreement and um that that agreement needs to be finalized um apricot will have to create the parcels as proposed which you see the lot b as well as the lot a for the development parcel apricot indicates there could be commercial use of that lot b property down in the future again north 15th and 16th and broadway avenues are going to be the main streets that you will be utilized to access the site um the site is well buffered on both broadway avenue as well as 17th street um and the applicant plans on maintaining a lot of those mature trees that are that align both of those streets to provide the buffer to the development as well as the neighboring properties there are a couple of variances that are being requested one is to have 17 units per acre uh one is to have a zero foot paving setback and that is where that cross easement would be with lot b for that shared access on the broadway avenue and requesting some landscaping and buffer yard required um variance so staff was recommending an approval of the project as you have proposed with the conditions um i can answer any questions the applicant is here to address uh the development and there are neighbors here for this project as well thank you very much steve uh commissioners any questions all the person born thank you mayor uh when this came before the plan commission the last time probably i've been more excited about this project than many that have come before us particularly that we're going to be doing something with that corner which in my opinion has been an eyesore and i understand it's it's a business but it's an eyesore uh the only concern i really have with this is the possibility of the quick trip going in on that corner uh i'm concerned that it may take away from the ambience of the project uh it looks like the exterior of the buildings are going to be beautiful and the east and west uh buffers are going to be there but i really question with the traffic that that's going to generate with a quick trip and i know we're not actually talking about a quick trip but where there's a possibility of a quick trip with the amount of traffic that's going to be generated just by the tenants uh with with that many apartments uh i'm just concerned about a quick trip going in that location i just think it may re raise havoc with that intersection another positive point that i want to make uh before the principles comment on this is i'm very happy to see the price points of these apartments i think it really fills a needed niche in shabuagan uh some of our other beautiful apartment buildings that have taken place over the last couple of years uh are considerably more expensive than these and i think this is going to be uh just really going to fill a niche for us so maybe if you could comment maybe on the potential commercial development down there and the concerns i have with it thank you thank you for those comments joel would you like to come to the podium and um add on to that and respond to those comments absolutely thank you all for having me tonight really appreciate it it's been great working with the city through this uh process uh to your point we actually got invited uh last month to speak at a conference in oakland about this project uh as far as the rents go we've been working with uh some partners who are nationally trying to figure out how do you really address this kind of gap in and housing i mean people are familiar with tax credit projects uh like the badger uh street apartments that are going in which is a great a great project but we've been trying to figure out how do you provide this where the rents are a little more attainable um to fill that gap because we're seeing the same thing you know rents being very high so we're happy to be able to do it um this is not an income restricted property so i want to point that out that unlike a tax credit project where you can only have to make under a certain amount to live there that's not what this is we've just committed to depress the rents to keep them a little lower so the people that are working in the wonderful industry in shabuagan you know can afford to live here so that's really our goal otherwise it'll be indistinguishable from the new market rate product being built here which is gorgeous i look at projects all over the country and i can really tell you guys should be proud of what developers are building here um so on the quick trip front um as steve mentioned we have commissioned a traffic study they um actually took all the counts last week so they're compiling all of the reports now our intention very much would be to obviously not build something that's going to have negative impacts so we would work with the city and staff to mitigate any concerns that came back um an interesting thing to point out about that site is anybody remembers that used to be a 10 foot bluff in the middle of the site uh running east to west and that's been filled about three phases over the last 30 years uh the corner that you're talking about was never filled so that's actually lower at the original grade so a future commercial use on the corner would actually be built at the grade that the corner is at which is about 10 feet lower than the site behind it so part of the intention there is when you're at the intersection you'll see whatever commercial use is there but you'll also see the multifamily above it so that there's less interaction there to kind of create that buffer between the two which has very much been part of our plan uh we've also discussed with staff um you know working together to include some design criteria in our agreement with a potential user like quicktrip so that there's consistency with what we're both both saying so we're still working with them we've been having ongoing conversations with three different potential users that are very different quick trips the furthest along but there are different potential ones that's why we didn't go too far into it tonight so hopefully that addresses that um we do have the three different roads we're leaving the two existing streets open to the north our intention is very much that the new south entrance will be the main front door to the site as far as signage goes that's where we would intend to direct our tenants to to that new curb cut on on Broadway so while we are keeping um the other two open 15th and 16th we intend though for those to be lesser used to become backdoor uh if you will because we're not trying to put cars through the neighborhood we're very sensitive to that um also in the previous conversations we had had with a couple of neighbors the one resounding fame was sensitivity to keeping the uh berm and the mature growth trees on the west side of the property that are there and as you can see from that site plan there they're by and large untouched there's a little bit of dip in at the one point for the new green space we'd add but otherwise we've gone to great lengths to not touch that buffer to not touch the mature growth trees quite frankly it's very expensive to build trees and berms like that and if it's naturally there I will take that gift so our intention would be to leave that and also on the east the buffer um with business would be our intention thank you very much for explaining your visions for this project next I'd like to see if there's any neighbors who would like to give us any comments sir please step up then just your name and address please before you start south 17th street and we've been there for 29 years and we've enjoyed vandervaart uh that refers to themselves as a good neighbor we've had correspondence over the years that they've sent everyone along the alley and on the other side explaining you know certain things that have taken place and so we've appreciated them and I appreciate everything that mr oliver has explained and the sensitivity to that green space with the mature trees is very very significant to everyone that I have talked to over the years along the alley from uh dan hind at uh northland plastics to dave atamavitch at automation technologies at the south end of the alley so I just want to reaffirm and confirm our hope and wishes as neighbors to work with uh uh encourage mr oliver and and everyone who's involved in this to really treasure that that green space in those mature trees and if it would be possible to have that colored picture up on the screen again if you'll notice those of us who know the alley and especially to the lower right you'll see automation technologies there with the white buildings and the berm looks pretty much untouched except for that lower right just to the the left of the parking lot at automation technologies right there that corner of the it looks like a street that goes around the building or the driveway that that seems to be getting closer mr oliver do you know what the distance is between the corner of that drive space to the alley that's the shortest distance in the uh in the green space that I see up there you know what that would be respond to that so uh I can't tell you the exact measurement based on this drawing um what I would say though is the landscaping plan it's something we still have to submit to the city which would address any new buffering that would replace anything that were encroached on there everything between that yeah so that'd be my best answer I don't want to tell you a wrong number and okay my foot in my mouth yeah mr oliver actually came to my house last year and I was going he came in the back and looked at everything and he expressed his appreciation for the green space that we do have and and their sensitivity to that so I'd just like to thank you for for that sensitivity and I hope and pray that this all works out in a very positive way for all of us as neighbors thank you thank you for those comments uh gentlemen in the back room row there did you want to speak your arm out before your name and address please name is robert ziller uh 15 29 south 17th street that would be to the west edge and again it was a great part and appreciate the attention you have on that mature green area that is very important for everyone I would have to say and I counted four stories I believe four story and uh that's going to put that pretty much right up to the top of your people to the alley in the west side so yeah it takes a long time to get trees that high so that's an important issue and I just wanted to express that and thank you for hearing me thank you very much sir anyone else like to speak ma'am please step up my name my name is Linda Smith I live at 1415 south 16th I have a little bit of a concern will there be absolutely enough parking for all those people because we have the plastic factory there right across from our house and a lot of times there's no parking on our street and uh so I'm just concerned they they say they have another they say they have another parking lot on the other side but that's only a couple by their warehouse so can you tell us that there's going to be enough parking even though we've got all those plastic people are we going to still have fun with fun with parking okay go ahead Joe what I could tell you based on our experiences developers and our architects and engineers in our property management firms this is informed by what we see as as being appropriate the worst thing for me is to have apartments where people can't live because people know that and that's that's bad and we have the room to do it here we've actually worked really closely with the city on the balance of what we're providing in garages versus just parking lots versus carports to fit a lot of funny carport conversations since I've been here um since nobody has them what we're proposing is cool I promise um so yes we believe that what we're providing is appropriate and and we'll we'll satisfy it that would definitely be our our intention thank you very much uh there's a gentleman back there I'm sorry I'm Tony Blake I live at 1511 south 17th street yes I think it's a great plan my only concern is the lighting are you going to be using like super bright lighting or is it going to be something low key will it shine over the tree line so um just for clarity for people that don't know so when you're looking at that picture Chad would you mind kind of in the bottom left the the four buildings so those are all single story garages or what those are and what those are so the multi family buildings are the those in the middle of the site just for context where we height-wise the garages are just kind of standard single story garages um what is currently shown um on the plan would be uh wall mounted lighting for the garages that are really very focused on the park drives in front of them and what would really impact um all of those neighbors would be what are on those garage buildings part of what we'll have to submit to the city as a photometric plan that shows that there's no light pollution over the property line anything that'd be higher as you could see is very more centralized in the middle kind of a street lighting thank you joe any other comments from the residents okay then uh move on to uh ryan sasma yeah just so the commission knows developers are going to be required to do a very detailed traffic analysis and if there's going to be any kind of pinch points for entering or exiting the site uh study will pick up on that and we'll just have to address them but um i'm pretty easy has enough parking here for the development that it shouldn't be an issue but the traffic study is going to pick up on it so in our department will review that thank you for those comments next jim boran thanks mayor i just had a question on uh people at you know people my age are starting to sell their homes and move into apartments or condos and one concern i always get from my friends and constituents is and with all the developments you've done i'm sure you're on top of this but can you kind of explain what you're doing your developments as far as making the apartments as soundproof as possible you know with the joining walls up and down and that type of thing so yeah soundproofing actually is driven by a couple of different things mostly external factors obviously so uh there is a sound engineer that's involved with it and you know kind of assesses all of those from an exterior perspective and from the exterior we can deal with it with the window systems and with the exterior installation uh on the inside of the of the building you're really dealing with um you know the drywall systems that you're using how high they go inside the walls how you insulate um how the flooring systems are built and how the roof systems are built so um we are designing this project to it's the us green building council green standard um which drives a lot of those things with what kind of installation you use and how you achieve those more efficient buildings um so that that is very much uh from a green standpoint of building an efficient building is our intention and a great byproduct of that is usually increased soundproofing so next is their planning director Chad Pellecek so i just want to state that we've got a little bit of work to do for the commission on a development incentive for this project the plan is for the city to create another TIF district um around this property to help with some incentives to fill a gap we're in the middle of negotiations as it relates to that originally we had thought that this item might be held although now we're recommending you guys move forward and take an action on it and we'll continue to work through those discussions but there's going to be some follow-up to the common council before this project actually moves forward Joel's group at green street had originally applied for funding through li-tech credits through WEDA we're not given those credits and then came up with a creative solution through some HUD financing so there's a number of steps that need to be put in place before you're going to see ground being moved out there um so we're probably looking at something early next year or late next middle to late next year where they'll start construction the other thing i wanted to mention is um it's the city's intent we've got a purchase and sale agreement to purchase right away from union pacific railroad to extend a recreational trail from basically pennsylvania avenue down to union and then along indiana avenue corridor and that would go right by the east side of this property so between the van der vart or the oscar property and south business drive is a railroad corridor that will ultimately become a recreational trail um as part of their plans they've looked at attaching or connecting their development to the trail as a non-motorized amenity amenity surrounding their development with some um shelters and playgrounds and those types of things connected in so i think they've done a very good job on putting together a plan that uh ties it into existing infrastructure as it relates to the trail and the as ryan said there could be some additional impacts on traffic that needs to be dealt with but we're planning to move forward and figure those out as well thank you under further discussion jerry i'd make a motion to approve subject to staff recommendations thank you for that motion and support is there any other discussion please come up to the podium sir and just your name and address my name is scott kanoki address uh that is a loan for wisconsin avenue uh that is the uh shamanian trade and labor hall association one thing i just mentioned and i wasn't aware of that you're talking about a tiff district here um interesting if we're going to go down that avenue i think the city has has a responsibility for the citizens in this city uh that they should have something there should be an incentive then that they should use local contractors to build this instead of having out of town contractors um certainly if the citizens here if their tax money is good enough to help out as far as the tax incentive then they should be good enough to build it as well so i represent the sheet metal workers local 18 the four county area roughly 250 members just wanted to see my piece on that once again if you're using tax money you should insist on having local contractors this area build this stuff i've seen a lot of developments go up around here some have been good some have not been good seen some substandard contractors working on these buildings so just wanted to bring that forward to your attention sir thank you very much joe would you like to respond to your contractor situation i have the best answer we developed and built the sheet metal union hall in st louis we're actually noticed all the unions in st louis um we have two construction companies ourselves in st louis neither of them are building this uh we buy wholeheartedly into working at people locally um you know local trades people know the market know what's going on um we also have a huge incentive in this and that we're buying the site from somebody in the trades uh who's well dialed in so um we do that the best we can we can't guarantee we use you know everybody because it's driven by the market a little bit but that's definitely at the forefront of our mind to make an effort to do that so appreciate your comment for sure yeah thank you very much for that response is there any other discussion seen none all those in favor of the motion please signify by c and i i chair votes i opposed motion passes thank you very much for the discussion on this our next plan meeting is october 15th and next item on the agenda is adjournment jerry is there a second second thank you for that motion in support all those in favor of adjournment please signify by c and i i opposed we stand adjourned thank you for your time tonight