 Everyone, we're gonna get started here in a moment. Good morning, everyone, to those of you in the room, and I believe we have some colleagues online as well. Welcome to our fifth TCP Universal meeting. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Amanda Wilson. I'm the Director General of the Office of Energy Research and Development at Natural Resources Canada, but I'm here today in my capacity as Chair of the CERT. So it is my pleasure to be here and I'm so happy to see so many of you in person and hope to get a chance to catch up during the coffee breaks. It's been a while, I think, since we've all been in the same room together with CERT delegates and TCPs. I'm really looking forward to today and to tomorrow. I think that we have a really fantastic agenda planned and I hope that you're able to make a lot of connections while you're here as well. It's also a pleasure to have my co-chair here today, Timur Gul. So those of you who don't know Timur, he heads up the Energy Technology Policy Division here at the IEA and he was recently appointed as the IEA's Chief Energy Technology Officer. So this is a new position and I think it's one that speaks to the priority that the IEA has been placing on energy technology and innovation in the context of its broader ministerial mandates and work to achieve net zero. So congratulations again, Timur, on the appointment. I'm gonna hand things over to Timur shortly to help set the stage, but before I do that, I wanted to take an opportunity to recap for all of you some of the discussions that we had at CERT yesterday related to our review of CERT, the working parties and TCP alignment, alignment with overall government priorities and overall operational efficiencies. So I know that most, if not all of you, I hope are familiar with this process. It started more than a year ago as part of the IEA's medium term strategy on energy technology and research. And given that this is the 50th anniversary of the IEA, of the CERT and the broader structure, so that's half a century. We figured it was time to maybe have a look at how we were structured and make sure that we were still organized in a way that made the most sense and could deliver the most value for governments around the world. So the self-assessment that CERT started to undertake had two main lines of inquiry. So the first was how well CERT, its working parties and TCPs align with government priorities. And the second was what challenges exist with respect to operational efficiency of the working parties and TCPs and how can they be addressed. So in terms of process, the review has been led by a CERT task force. Many of the members you will see here today. But I have to say the IEA secretariat, PAIR and colleagues provided strong support. I know that many of you have spoken to PAIR directly and these interviews that have been conducted have been supplemented by information gathered through workshops and through other forms of consultation. So the approach that we're taking to the implementation is a phased one. So we're cognizant that we don't want to do too much too fast and we wanna make sure that we're able to do the thinking and undertake the discussions that are needed to address the challenges that have come to the fore as we've conducted this work. So yesterday at the CERT, we made a number of decisions that we will believe helped to move things along in the right direction and we know that there's more to come. We'll be advancing the work in the coming months with a view to bringing additional recommendations for a decision at our next two CERT meetings. So that's the meeting that's scheduled for March and the meeting that's scheduled for June of next year. The starting point for these discussions is right here with all of you over the next couple of days. We're very much counting on you to share your thoughts and your ideas for how we can continue to strengthen this community. Before we jump into today's agenda, let me recap some of the decisions that we took yesterday at the CERT. So in the first category around how to ensure greater alignment with government priorities and resources, there are six items that I wanna highlight very quickly. So the first item is the adoption of new guidelines around what it means to be a CERT working party. Clearly outlining expected function within the broader governance structure in essence, CERT working parties should not only oversee TCP's, but they should also facilitate policy dialogue and cooperation among IEA members. In addition, they should provide strategic guidance to the IEA secretariat on sectoral and technology analyses and offer TCP's a platform to exchange information and communicate their efforts. The second CERT decision was to expand the mandate of the Renewable Energy Working Party to include the flexibility and resilience of energy systems and to change the reporting of three TCP's to now fall under the roof. Third, there was agreement to continue discussions regarding the next steps for both the end-use working party and the working party on fossil energy, understanding that as they're currently comprised, there may be some difficulty in fulfilling the expectations of new working party guidelines. I know that many of you will have thoughts and suggestions around this, and I know that the task force in the secretariat will be keen to get your input as we continue to gather input to make a recommendation to seek a CERT decision by next June. Fourth item, CERT decided to formalize the concepts of TCP coordination groups, symptomatic discussions in order to enable collaboration in areas that directly respond to government's policies and research needs. Fifth, we're introducing clearer criteria for TCP requests for extension to help ensure that work is aligned with government priorities and that TCP's are sufficiently resourced to deliver on outputs. And finally, CERT is encouraging member governments to place more focused attention and strengthened organization around TCP coordination at the national level. So that's the first category of items. In the second category, with respect to operational efficiency, there's four things that I will touch on quickly. First, in approving the guiding principles that I referred to, CERT codified the concept of TCP coordination groups, thus providing an additional mechanism through which TCP's can collaborate with one another and with the IEA secretariat. Second, in order to ensure quality input to the TCP's as part of the request for extension process, we've decided to review timelines, including by introducing midterm reviews and offering peer review groups. Third, we've agreed to elevate activities to strengthen joint efforts on communication and we'll seek a decision by the March CERT meeting on what governments, TCP's and the IEA secretariat can do further in this area. And finally, the CERT has decided to initiate dialogue with the SLT on collaboration, including with respect to working parties and TCP's. So I know that this sounds like a lot and it is a lot to take in all at once, especially when I'm just reading these at you. But I hope you will have time to think about them and consider them over the coming days. And we want your thoughts, we want your questions, we want your ideas. As we move forward, this next two days provide us with a really great starting point for that. And I know that I'm looking forward to the discussion and I know my CERT colleagues are, as well as IEA secretariat members. I'm gonna stop here. I'm gonna hand the floor over to Timur and he is going to set the stage and tell us about what we can expect over the next couple of days. So Timur, over to you. Yeah, thank you very much, Amanda. And good morning from my end as well. We haven't met in person since the pandemic broke out. So it's really great to see you all in person. I know that virtual meetings can substitute many things, but I see a very, very big value in personal exchange for all the obvious reasons. Exchanging ideas is easier. Bringing them forward is easier and just building the community is part of the objective here. Really, very much looking forward to co-chairing the meeting with you today. Amanda, this fifth TCP universal meeting. She already, Amanda already touched on two important backdrops for this meeting today. One is the IEA ministerial meeting taking place on 13th and 14th of February, which will mark the 50 years anniversary of the IEA since it was founded in 1974. And of course, the third review that she already touched upon. We very much look forward to discussing these matters with you over the course of today and tomorrow. Now, before looking ahead, let's take a short moment to remind ourselves where we're coming from, a couple of things from the past. So I'm a big fan of when I do scenario analysis in my professional life. So as part of scenario analysis is sometimes very instructive to think about what happened in the past couple of decades or so. So forgive me for this kind of, I'm not a historian, but forgive me for this type of a brief look at the past. But it's helpful to understand the DNA, the DNA of who we are as the IEA secretariat, who the TCP network is as such. The IEA was set up, as you know, by its founding members to prevent all shortage and price increases. But, and I quote here, the significant role energy R&D, including intensified international cooperation was already acknowledged in the early discussions to play a critical role in helping to solve the energy problems of the time. The top priority in 1974 was, of course, to secure sustainable supplies of oil. The original signatory governments also agreed though to explore cooperation on alternative sources of energy and energy conservation measures. Soon afterwards in 1974, the governing board organized a special meeting on energy R&D in which members were for the first time represented by their respective R&D principles, the beginning of what becomes the first constellation of today's Committee on Energy Research and Technology, the CERT shortly thereafter. The priority cooperative programs at the beginning at the time were coal, solar, radioactive waste management, fusion, hydrogen, nuclear safety, waste heat utilization, conservation of energy and energy systems analysis. So a lot of things that we're still thinking through today as part of the TCPs, but of course there has been a strong evolution ever since. A few of those exist to TCPs from back in the days still exist, but since then many have been started and others have been closed down depending on the evolution of government priorities. My colleagues tell me that since the first TCP was created, we had over 80, in fact, they say 82, but it's put here in brackets. So it seems like there's a slight uncertainty about the exact number over the years. And looking back at some of these historical documents and parents, the colleagues have done that, tell you a very fascinating story about IA's energy technology network. Why am I saying all this is because to me, I mean, this is a landscape that is very quickly involving international collaboration, technology, R&D, all these kind of matters, but this strong and longstanding foundation of the TCP network to me is a key strategic advantage compared with other frameworks that are out there to foster international collaboration on technology, R&D, stability, institutional setup, the brand, country, buy-in and backing, all these to my mind are very important assets that the TCP community has. Today, there are 39 individual technology collaboration programs with representatives from 55 different countries, 300 institutions and thousands of experts. So very much a proof of today's important outreach, but with any institution and with any organizational structure, it is important to take a closer look from time to time and reflect on how things are going, whether it's still fulfilling its purpose, what we can do in order to improve the operations. This is what we have done in the cert review. To my mind, this was a very important exercise and I'm really grateful for the cert cabinet as well as the committee for asking us to undertake it. If we don't critically reflect on ourselves from time to time, it's like in private life as in professional life, then we risk to become less effective, potentially even obsolete, but more importantly here also, we may also fail to achieve the greater purpose of international collaboration and supporting governments to achieve their long-term energy-related objectives. It is important to keep in mind, I think that today's objectives of governments are different. They have changed over time compared to the founding days in the 1970s or even as Amanda said just 10 years ago, this is also captured in how the IEA ministerial mandates have changed from the 1970s to today. If I quote the 2022 ministerial communique I think very instructive, two relevant mandates that are important here also for our discussion today. First one is in addition to ensuring global energy security, the IEA has a new guiding principle, supporting countries in the global effort to attain net zero greenhouse gas emissions in the energy sector by mid-century. This is the first mandate to bring to your attention. The other one is we affirm the critical roles of technology, innovation and investment in enabling global net zero ambition and we reaffirm the critical role of the IEA including its technology collaboration program in addressing barriers to development, uptake and accelerated deployment of safe and sustainable clean energy technologies. From our end, we have done a lot in my personal perspective and I'm saying this as the head of the ATP division here in many ways, we have done a lot to push the agenda of international collaboration on technology innovation over the last couple of years just to say important angle here and I can't click any more, I don't know why. No, but I think it's more important to know that the meeting is being live streamed. I think there's a lot. Okay, now we're there. So we have tried to push the analytical angle here very much. You may know from energy technology perspective 2020 and the net zero roadmap in 2021 that our assessment at the time was that almost half of the emission savings to reach net zero emissions by 2050 would need to come from technologies that were at the time of writing back then not yet commercially available. This has changed this year. We just recently released our updated net zero by 2050 scenario and the change is on the back of significant innovation technology progress, the share of technologies that are not yet commercially available at scale in the market has fallen from almost half in our two years ago assessments to 35% this year building on the tracking work that we are doing in collaboration with you in the context of the ETP clean energy technology guide. I know this analysis may sound a bit theoretical at times. Well, I'm not, I know you're working on very specific topics very much focused on RD&D matters, et cetera. But believe me when I say, and I've been with the IA 15 years, I started in fact, 20 years ago for the first time back then in the renewable energy unit and then 15 years ago starting with the World Energy Outlook. Believe me when I say that this assessment has been truly invaluable to raise the profile of innovation and of technology across all stakeholders. If you talk to mission innovation, clean energy ministerial to governments whoever it was a very important finding from our analytical work supported by the collaboration with you that has helped raise the profile of technology innovation to highest level of government. Another area that I just wanted to highlight very briefly that we've also highlighted in our work is the point on international collaboration. This is sometimes hard to pin down the value of international collaboration. I think you all value it, but if you were asked like what is the number you can give me to the value then you may probably struggle to do that because it's sometimes a bit intangible or the value that comes with collaboration. And specifically in areas like technology, RD&D, we have made an effort in our special report on clean energy innovation and the energy technology perspective series back in 2020 where we found some very good historical evidence of the value of international collaboration on technology, RD&D. But we made analysis here building on our assessment and understanding of technologies and sectors in the net zero roadmap two years ago where we showed that without international cooperation you cannot reach net zero by 2050 in any kind of realistic type of setup. Again, might sound theoretical from some of your perspectives, but again, believe me for the purpose of international collaboration and promoting it for many, many governments, highest level stakeholders. This was a truly important findings. Now we have a lot of ideas of what we can do to strengthen our collaboration and we will turn this to this in the next session. But before doing this, let me just recognize a couple of steps that we have taken in recent years. The first one is of course, the TCP Universal Meetings which was one of the first decisions of our executive director when he was first appointed in 2015 as a way to bring the TCPs together in a more coordinated way under the IEA. We also decided to rebend the implementing agreements to the IEA technology programs to strengthen the branding and I think personally from where I'm coming from, this has been a very big success. One of the first things I did when I was appointed as the head of the Energy Technology Policy Division five years ago and I see Paulo Keis smiling right away was to ask him, the chair of the hydrogen TCPs to be seconded to the secretariat to help us with the analysis in the context of the future of hydrogen report that we've been asked by the Japanese G20 presidency to bring to the attention of G20 governments. Thank you, Paul, very much and your employer, of course, for allowing us to have you in the secretariat at the time for several months working on this report. It was very, very, very useful for us. Through him, we had a lot of expertise on the one hand but we also had access to a hydrogen network that is within the context of the TCPs and we are open, very much open to make this available for future IEA publications as well. We've tried in the past after Paul left us to discuss with a couple of TCPs to put in place a similar configuration but unfortunately without success but the door remains open here as an encouragement to all of you, of course. Second or third, actually, I would also like to highlight the collaboration with many of the TCPs on the development and update of our ETP clean energy technology guide is an online tool that highlights 550 technologies that could help put the world on track to reach net zero emissions. We always talk about you, the TCPs as the world's technology expert and for me, to my mind, this is where it shows and this in the context of the clean tech guide, the knowledge that you have in these key technology areas is very critical and we are receiving a lot, a lot of requests on this particular clean energy technology guide. It's been shown to be truly invaluable for many stakeholders out there. Governments want, it's one but very much industries as well. Fourth, I want to thank the TCPs that were involved in the development of the technology and innovation pathways for zero carbon ready buildings by 2030 is a bit long title, I recognize that but it's been a great report. I believe we all learned a lot from this projects and how we can facilitate TCPIA secretariat collaboration in areas of priority to our member governments. It has inspired, in fact, as part of the third review reforming the TCP coordination groups from static platforms to more dynamic and output oriented collaboration. So we hope this is just the beginning of more this type of collaborations. Fifth, we have benefited greatly from the collaboration with the ADSAP TCP. Would like to thank Brian here who's with us today part of our global energy climate model is of course based on the times meddling framework developed by ADSAP but we have also had the pleasure of having Brian here the ADSAP chair with us for a few weeks last year to collaborate on the topic of energy modeling and go critically through what we are doing why we are doing it, how we are doing it, et cetera. So really big thanks to you Brian for all your expertise there. And as a last example, of course this is something more regular is a bit less obvious to pin down but we benefit a lot from TCP delegates that contribute over the years to IA reports with valuable material peer reviews, et cetera. It really helps us to ensure quality of our work. This brings me to the future. We will discuss in a session to the 50 years on anniversary next year and I believe it will give us a unique opportunity to tell the history of 50 years of technology development and the role of TCPs. In the context of the ministerial we will host special edition of our biennial ministerial meeting at which we gather representatives of all family IA family countries at ministerial level to take stock of global energy cooperation and to take decisions for the coming years for the IA. Given that it's the 50 years anniversary the February meeting next year will be bigger reflecting on what's been achieved what we can do better moving forward with a strong record on technology collaboration over the last 50 years. Innovation will be an important topic that will be a full day energy innovation forum. I think I went to this slide a little earlier I'll just realize. Anyway, I'll do it anyway. This innovation forum is a unique opportunity if you ask me. It's been requested by G7 leaders for the IA to host. We have convinced or discussed very carefully with the ministerial bureau to have it back to back with the ministerial meeting and I do think it's a unique opportunity we will gather startups, we will gather people from the investment communities, governments, et cetera to discuss with your input what we can do to improve the pace at which technologies new ideas get into the market in different areas what could happen in emerging economies and elsewhere and what the IA should be doing over the next couple of years what to prioritize in the innovation space. So we will come back to this item in session two to gather your input how we can send a strong message to the ministerial meeting and the energy innovation forum. But I hope that this will mark not only a reflection of what's happened over the last 50 years but also a good boost to what we should be doing as the secretariat but also in the context of the TCP is moving forward. Now I come to this slide which are the objectives of the universal meeting. First of all, there's value of course in coming together. I said that in the beginning to think about what's working well what's not working so well setting the direction for the next years of collaboration with the ministerial meeting of course as an important milestone. We will be starting the meeting will be a starting point for how we can take forward the results of the cert review to the next cert meeting including the three points that you see here improving joint efforts on communicating the work of the TCP's kicking off discussions for the renewed TCP coordination groups and upgrading of the request for extension mechanism. And of course it's a chance for all of us to get back together get to know each other to the extent we don't do it now exchange ideas. Compare what's going well in your TCP network compare to others and get new ideas on how to improve things. So use the brakes the reception to get to know each other better one of our hopes of this meeting today. The agenda I hope you all have received it I don't want to go through it into great detail just to say this morning we will spend some time sharing the successes and stories that have defined the new TCP network over the past five decades but we also want to look ahead and discuss what comes next. After lunch we will focus on activities to improve our communication. We will start in a planary but then be divided into breakout groups there will be more information coming after lunch at the end of the day you see it on the bottom left hand side here very humbly so but it's a reception so hopefully you can all join us at the IEA café just over here. We will start tomorrow morning at 9.30 with a first discussion on the renewed TCP coordination groups my colleague Per Anders will introduce the concept then and we will hear from both the TCP's and the secretariat on the first list of proposals before discussing these proposals in a more interactive format the IEA executive director will join us Fatih Biro to provide special remarks he would have liked to be here today but there was the World Energy Outlook launch yesterday he is in Brussels today for very important meetings to launch the report there but also with NATO so he couldn't join us today but he will address the TCP universal meeting tomorrow. After lunch there will be the last session of the universal meeting focusing on the revision of the request for extension another decision from the third review so very packed days if you have any questions don't hesitate to approach us there are of course there's of course Per there are Anna, Lotte I don't see Charlotte right now Mao but they must of course there is Charlotte yes exactly Mao is currently upstairs so we are all here to support you and make this useful two days for all of you but also for all of us and with that thank you very much for listening thank you for coming and back to you Amanda. Thanks so much Timmer definitely helpful and interesting to see some of the history of the TCP network and to see what the priorities were back in 1974 and 1975 so we're going to start our first formal session of the day it's going to focus on the things that we need to consider when we're talking about the future of the TCP network and how collaboration can be further improved I'm going to hand the mic over to my colleague and one of my Vice-Chairs Toshi Sakamoto from Japan to speak from a Japanese point of view on the current activities of TCPs and how they match his country's policy and research priorities so Toshi over to you. Thank you Amanda. Good morning colleagues. Let me start with a very brief self-introduction about 20 years ago I was the chair of executive committee of one of the TCPs called the CDI Climate Technology Initiative which was transferred to UNID many years ago so it's among the over 80 TCPs Let me first underscore the importance of TCP networks as you know the energy issues are getting more and more complex and as a result of that we need to address more cross-cutting and more cross-sectoral issues to that end I think TCP networks between TCPs among TCPs even with other international initiatives are very important and could be valuable asset for IEA and what are the elements of success for international collaboration? I would point out two points one is alignment with government priorities the other is overall operational effort as pointed out by Amanda in her opening remarks and to that end we are working on the third review and the slide in front of you is the excerpt of G7 ministerial meeting this April which was held in Sapporo, Japan. So I will be talking about G7 priority not Japan's priorities and of course the G7 priorities are not necessarily identical to IEA member states priorities but I think it's still a good reference point and also please note that I took liberty of dropping some paragraphs which I thought are not so relevant to our discussion for example paragraph on gas market and paragraph on finance I dropped those paragraph in this slide. Let me start with the most recent and excellent alignment with government priorities that is paragraph 76 and 77 industrial decarbonization. As you may know last year a G7 presidency of Germany successfully put forward industrial decarbonization agenda which was succeeded by Japan this year and we agreed upon for example a global data collection framework in steel industry. So and these initiative among G7 has led to the creation or working party of industrial decarbonization WPID within CTI communities. So I think that is the most recent and successful for example of alignment with government priorities. Of course there are many other areas we are well aligned with government priorities. Paragraph 63 energy efficiency 64 or renewables 66 power systems we are doing a lot of work within TCP communities and also paragraph 78 to 82 I think we are somehow to some extent well aligned to the government priorities. But what about 61 methane? In this paragraph G7 pointed out ministers pointed out the need to develop MRV measurement reporting and the verifications and paragraph 65 clean energy supply chain this is a new cross cutting issues we may have to consider how to contribute to it. 67 hydrogen of course we have a hydrogen TCP but it is placed under renewable working party that gives me the impression that the TCP hydrogen hydrogen TCP is focusing on green hydrogen but the G7 ministers agreed the blue or green colors doesn't matter what does matter is carbon intensity and also they pointed out the importance of derivatives such as ammonia. So maybe we may have to make a bit more effort to align on the hydrogen research and development. 68 carbon management ministers listed a lot of issues for research and development such as CCUS backs and backs as synthetic fuels. Nuclear energy number 70 ministers pointed out the needs to develop advanced nuclear technologies such as SMR we are doing nothing about that. And nuclear fusion was not mentioned at all in this communique 36 pages and the leaders communique also did not mention nuclear fusion I spotted just one reference one word a fusion in science ministers communique. So it seems to me yesterday vice chair of FCC informed us there are 50 startups for nuclear fusion and raising six billion dollars. Therefore, I believe that we should make more effort so that the government recognize nuclear fusion as energy rather than the science. And the critical mineral and this is obviously one of the most important new issues we needed to consider. So these are the G seven priorities. I will stop here and I hope my brief presentation could be food for thought for today's discussion. Thank you. Thanks very much Toshi that was very useful. We're now going to get perspective from another government. We have with us Peter Olson who is director within the Australian department of climate change, energy, the environment and water. Peter, thank you for traveling all of this way to join us here in person. We very much appreciate it. I'm gonna hand it over to you so you can provide perspective on Australia's priorities and other aspects that you find that you think might be important for this group to consider. Thanks. Thank you Amanda. Hello everyone. It's my pleasure to be here at my first TCP meeting. So I'm the director of the net zero innovation section in the department of climate change and energy. And I've had the privilege to work across the international clean energy collaborative landscape for the last five years particularly in the multilateral areas. And I've seen a lot of growth in this multilateral collaboration both on R and D but also on policy to support clean energy. We're also seeing governments working more with industry and researchers together in this space. So it's been a really exciting couple of years. My team is responsible for now leading our strategic engagement across the TCPs. So as this is my first meeting, I'm really looking forward to having a chat with everyone today to understand more about what you're all doing. But it's also been a really opportune time to come together with the CERT review and seeing how that can play out and being able to think about how we can also participate in that as well. Quick context on Australian policies. So we have a target for 82% renewables in our grid by 2030. So this is supported by large investment in our grid infrastructure. And we've also launched a $2 billion hydrogen, large-scale hydrogen project scheme. And we're very focused on developing clean energy and the materials supply chains, particularly increasing our own battery manufacturing capacity and solar capacity within Australia. But today my focus is on the TCPs. I just wanted to raise three areas that I see as important to the future success of the TCPs. From my experience across this multi-lateral policy ecosystem and also with some fresh eyes. So I've got three C's that I'm working with today. The first is to be contemporary with the World Energy Outlook just released yesterday and congratulations to the IEA on this. We can see that there's been a big change with the drastic uptakes of solar, EVs and heat pumps from the 2021 addition to this one. The IEA analysis has pointed out to the need of the tripling of renewables and the doubling of energy efficiency and that emphasis on grids and demand response measures and storage. So like the WIO, our trajectory of research, innovation and technology needs to show this evolution from where we were just three years ago. And also we've just heard about some of the prioritization that we need to take into account. We need to be smart with our efforts in these landscapes and the constant evolution in clean energy innovation. There's also the need in being contemporary to recognize how many other groups that are now working in this space. There's lots of collaboration out there and I can really see that there's opportunities that these other collaborative platforms are natural allies to the TCPs. The areas for you to work with but also to disseminate your work particularly into government and other policy organizations that work with them. So this leads me to my second point on coordination. So we've got great examples of TCPs working collaborative across the clean energy cooperative ecosystem. And I really think this is something that could continue to grow with TCPs and other initiatives. Finding opportunities to strengthen research plans and projects by partnering with other programs like mission innovation, the clean energy ministerial or regional groups like the international solar alliance. It should be a priority to help channel resources towards the solutions that we need. We've also just heard about the opportunity for better coordination across the TCPs. I can really see how this is going to be really important because also unfortunately, governments have finite budgets to invest in R&D. So there's a real practical element to coordination and greater collaboration as it actually strengthens the business case for projects and for funding. And finally, communication. So it underpins how we can achieve the first two. So the better we can communicate what the TCPs are achieving and what they're planning to achieve and what governments would like them to achieve, the stronger our ability is for the TCPs to become contemporary and also better coordinated. So I'm really happy to see the discussion on the agenda for later today on how we can ensure improved communication in all directions. And also to continue to champion and publicize the outcomes of TCPs to a broader audience. Least of all, because I can see that that's a chance to potentially attract new investment from industry or other donors. If they don't know about the great work that you're doing, how do they know that this is something they should get behind and be supporting? So I'm really looking forward to hearing from everyone today and how we can make this agenda of transformation across the CERT and the TCPs a really great success. And thank you for having me. Wonderful, thank you so much, Pita. We really appreciate your participation here over the next couple of days. We're gonna turn now and get a TCP perspective. I'm gonna turn it to David Shipworth, who is the chair of the users TCP. I don't know which direction, there we go. David, wonderful, nice to see you to provide a few thoughts. All right, thank you very much. So provide a slightly different perspective. One thing we're acutely aware of within the users TCP is two countervailing narrative arcs. One, when you step outside of the techno economic energy sphere focused on hitting a normative goal of decarbonization and start looking at the literature from in this case, the US National Intelligence Council. You look at what geopolitical strategists are looking at. You get a very different sense of what the world is going to look like over the next 30 years than what it has looked like over the last 30 years. So when you look at these documents, you see a lot of information about the world becoming more contested, particularly when it comes to the social and political side of things. So this slide basically looks at the difficulties that we will increasingly face in maintaining the democratic mandate to decarbonize. And that will apply both from international geopolitical interactions, but down to local debates over the social acceptability of net zero options. So I think there are some significant challenges ahead. I think that in order to address those challenges, we need to be acutely aware of the kind of inflection point we're at. We've spent a lot of time looking at technology development and driving down cost curves, but actually driving uptake and getting functional systems that operate starts to put a lot more emphasis onto the social acceptability and operation of these technologies, particularly in highly distributed energy systems. So I think we need to shift further towards looking at systems, as well as the technologies, a shift towards deployment, as well as technology development, looking at what is effective as well as what is efficient. And by effectiveness, it's really what can we get in the ground and operating quickly. A shift to resilience maximization as well as cost minimization. Again, it's an area that I know the secretariat is looking at and there's been discussions with cross-TCP platforms on that, but we need to do more in that direction and looking at energy service and security as well as energy supply security. So how do we protect people in a rapidly changing world? So I think from a TCP perspective, in order for this coordination to actually work so that we can start looking at these cross-TCP collaboration structures, it would be helpful to think about aligning the timings and work practices of TCPs. I think there is a need to accelerate and become more agile in the way TCPs initiate tasks. We also have to have a smaller, more responsive and knowledgeable Exco that really is thinking about how they translate the work of tasks through to councils. So I think we need a range of transformations if these cross-TCP platforms are going to exist. Pause there, thank you. Thank you so much, David. That's really, there's a lot of food for thought there on that slide. So thank you very, very much. We're gonna open it up to the floor for comment, but before we do that, I'm gonna turn to Timor and see if you have some thoughts to offer. Yeah, thank you, Amanda. And thanks for these great interventions, both Toshi, Peter, but also David really liked the points that he just made. I wanted to just briefly take the opportunity to share an initial list of potential activities that my colleagues put together that we believe could be important to consider on the one hand to government officials, but also on the other hand, that's the second bucket to TCP representatives. So the first point is really towards governments or certain working party delegates, our wish list, for the overall coordination of the TCPs. First is, we have heard very good things about TCP national days, wherever they exist. So identifying a TCP national coordinator, wherever you don't have it, to organize TCP national days and disseminate the work of the TCPs is a very good starting point. Key questions to think through here does your participation in the TCPs align with your government's priorities? Or are you still in TCPs because that used to be a priorities? Or have you forgotten about joining in the TCP where your new priority actually exists? Is there a mess match, in other words, with those priorities and what the TCPs are working on? Also, how does your TCP participation align with your participation in other fora? The SEM, a clean energy ministerial as well as mission innovation are key for a year, of course, but there might be others. The second point is ensuring that delegates with relevant competence are nominated to IA working parties. We have recently established a new working party on industrial decarbonization where we have made really good experience and because it's a new thing. Also, we were able to reach out more concretely to governments on what is the purpose of that working party? What are we looking for, et cetera? Around 20 countries have nominated really excellent experts, I must say, but of course, by the sheer number, IA has 39 member countries to understand that there are still a couple of countries missing, so we hope that those countries will follow up. But the key point here is about the competence that is put into the working parties that is a critical vehicle to actually help guide the TCPs and work together with them. As for support to our analytical work, we greatly appreciate the help and making contacts within the governments for IA events, peer reviews and projects, IA events, just to give a shout out here to Amanda for a big help she just did for a forthcoming workshop, also US Vice Chair Dennis. So this is extremely helpful for the CERT and the working parties helping us there. Another example is we have the Clean Energy Demonstration Project Database that we have developed over the last two, three years and following the $94 billion commitment that was made at the Clean Energy Ministerial in Pittsburgh, we are getting a lot of support and contacts to help us track these type of commitments and that has been proven very useful and we'll need this help again next year. Also, of course, continuing to facilitate tracking and reporting of RD&D data and relevant projects such as on technology classifications and finally, but very important to us financial support, of course, to our energy technology analysis here at the IA. Now, to what concerns the TCPs and what they could be doing, my colleagues gave me a long list of areas where they would like to strengthen our collaboration. This is a bit of a list coming from the technology division, so also in view of what David just said, don't take this as a comprehensive list because the IA has many different divisions, many teams I see our efficiency and inclusive transition office represented over there by Vida. So there's a lot of activities across the IA that we have a renewable energy division, the World Energy Outlook teams and various different others, of course. So everyone is gonna be interested in something different from you, but everyone is gonna be interested. I think that is the important part here. For what concerns my team, the technology team here, we have identified two areas. One is sector and technology focused where there's great interest to collaborate more in areas like shipping and aviation, heat pumps, hydrogen, as well as industrial decarbonization, and when it comes to cross cutting topics on carbon management, clean tech manufacturing and supply chains, as well as critical minerals. We are gathering all this information. I mentioned that already earlier in our ETP Clean Energy Technology Guide and whatever you can do to help us and further improve this would be extremely useful last year or this year actually we tracked 550 technologies and components with specific mentions of technology readiness levels and major R&D and demonstration projects around the world. This also informs our net zero by 2050 scenario. So it's a very important database here to understand the role of innovation and meeting energy and climate goals. And as I said earlier, we're receiving a lot of questions, feedback from all types of users in the world. So it's very important for us to keep this information accurate and up to date. Finally, just to say, I believe the TCP coordination groups can be an important avenue for building and strengthening our strategic collaboration. Of course, it's not the only way but we are very keen to engage closer with you. It's very important for us in the process of coming up with how we better also communicate our work. And there will be discussions this afternoon on this, of course. So these are just a few ideas and the wish list that my colleagues put in writing here to me so that I don't miss out on mentioning it to all of you. So of course, looking forward to hearing both from the cert delegates and the TCP representatives what's on your list. Thank you for listening. Thanks very much, Timur. So with that excellent wish list and with the three excellent interventions that we've had already, we're going to open it up for a broader discussion. I have two questions sort of to kickstart the discussion. So for cert delegates in the room, we're interested in what, if you could tell us what your government's top policy and research needs are at the moment and do they correspond to the scope of work that's currently happening across the working parties and TCP's and for TCP's in the room, what would you like to see from cert in terms of guidance or improvements in the way that the TCP network operates? Give us your wish list. So if you'd like to intervene, please raise your flag, raise your name plate and we will go around the room. Perfect. Okay, please. Sorry, Paul Lucas from the Hydrogen TCP. Thank you for this opportunity to exchange directly with the cert delegate because I think it's the first time we have the opportunity to exchange with you. And for example, I think there is sometimes some misunderstanding between the cert and the TCP's. For example, the Japanese delegate said a few minutes ago that as we are in the renewable working party, we are working only on renewable, which is not exactly true. Since the beginning, we are working on the low-carbon hydrogen. We are including, we have since the beginning in 1977, we are a task on hydrogen from nuclear energy. We have tasks on collaboration with CCS. So it's a difficulty for us to belong to the renewable working party because we are not only renewable. And it's a very good things to exchange with you to clarify, for example, this misunderstanding because maybe we need to have more exchange on the content of the TCP to know better what we are doing inside our TCP, for example. Thank you. Thank you very much, Paul. We're gonna go now to the wind TCP, Stefan. Yeah, thanks. We just had the excomeding last week and David, how to start or accelerate starting a task, we're about a bit puzzling how to manage all the tasks. We have more than 20 tasks now in our TCP and looking at all the great ideas of having coordination groups and having TCP-TCP interaction. One big question from our side is how would that be resourced in a proper way that these really move on? Because it's a burden already on all the task members in our task. So any additional activity, and let it manage that, that would be, if we could get advice or best practices that work properly already in other TCP or TCP-TCP coordination, if cert has ideas how to do that, that would be very much appreciated. Thank you very much. We're going to continue the discussion, but I just wanted to mention, I should have done this at the start, that for those colleagues who are joining online, you can of course use the raise your hand function to indicate that you'd like to intervene or you could make a note in the comments. Thank you and apologies for missing that earlier. We're going to go now to the ETSAP TCP, Brian, over to you. Thank you very much. Firstly, just to say it's a great pleasure to be here. This is the fifth of these gatherings that I've attended and I see some people around the table who've, I suppose, old friends and new friends and so it's great to be here. My suggestion for cert, it kind of builds on what David showed and it also builds on some of the work that's happening in the TCP's and in the IEA, but it's maybe less visible than it might be and this is a kind of, I suppose, explicitly focusing on the societal dimensions of the energy transition. I think the societal aspects are increasingly recognized as very important. The latest IPCC report, the AR6, for the first time in 40 years, had a chapter sort of focusing on the societal dimension of the energy transition. Increasingly, the TCP's themselves are more involved in the societal aspects of the energy transition and you can see that in some of the evolution of the name changes over the years. I mean, the energy and buildings has energy and buildings and communities, the user's TCP, the name of that, the equality TCP. So I think we're seeing it reflected increasingly in the TCP's activity, but it's maybe not being kind of, and maybe a coordination group is a way to focus on this. And the final point on this is it's very interesting. Just I was looking at the WIO 2023 and comparing it with the WIO 2022. And when you look at the projected European response to the restricted gas demand, two thirds of the response projected were on the supply side and a third on the demand side, whereas it was very interesting to look at the graphic in yesterday's WIO, which showed that two thirds of the response actually happened at the demand side. So I think there's, and I suppose David's presentation highlighted some of the challenges on the societal aspects of the energy transition, but I think there's also positive dimensions that can be brought out in mobilizing society around the energy transition. And there's two parts to that, but I think it's under explored and undervalued and yet it's bubbling up in different ways and maybe a focus on that would be something I'd suggest. Thank you. Thank you, Brian. We'll go now to the gas and oil TCP, Jostin. Thank you, Amanda. I'd just also like to congratulate the organizers for convening this important meeting. Certainly very helpful. We're a big family and there is a lot of, I think, benefit for getting inputs from everyone. Now, my comment was purely in response to some of this discussion which has been involving on where does the hydrogen TCP belong? And I think that, to me, is an indication that there is an additional challenge on the horizontal level. I think as we talk about coordination, we see an energy market getting more and more integrated. So when I look at the TCP structure, it seems quite sort of silo-based. I think probably it's hard to get away from a feud-based division, but I think more and more of the energy technology work will need to be working in the space of hybrid solutions. And that also means that I think our work we need to also embody a discussion on how we can coordinate cross-cut. I think that also speaks to our TCP. When we are rebranding, we see that there is a lot of interlinkages from a sort of flexibility point of view. So I just wanted to voice that. I think perhaps there is a discussion there to think about in terms of coordination. Thank you. Thank you very much, Yostin. We're going to go now to the Inhaled Oil Recovery TCP, as Cesaro. Good morning, everyone. I would like to say thank you for the opportunity to be here. Our first line, Colombia, is seated as well here. And representing the enhanced oil recovery, we have been working as well to change our name, to change our objectives, aligned with the net server strategy and the Trilema. Today we are Energy Optimization Recovery, as we are coming from the sort of resources and aligned what Peta is saying, and how Net Zero and Timur is saying. I think the TCP has a lot of opportunities today to integrate related with the lines of technology. We founded different integrations from hydrogen, from oil and gas, from sort of us, from biological system. We need technology pathway. So if we strain our TCPs related to technology, as we have already different technology raw maps, I think it will be a good opportunity to integrate ourselves. And maybe in the discussion we're going to have today, we will see how advanced fuel cells can be connected with combustion in C2NOR, how we can combine all technology, mature technologies with new ground technologies. And it's the matter of technology and innovation that we are all here today to solve our Trilema from the world. So energy security, the carbonization, energy transition is something that today all the TCPs are working on. And all related to carbon intensity, how we include technology with carbon intensity options, lowering emissions is something that put us together. And I think all the TCPs are working in that sense. So I think it's a good pathway to integrate technology readiness level, carbon intensity options, and how we can elaborate the coordination groups related to the Trilema of the world. Thank you. Thank you very much, Cesar. We'll go now to the Equality TCP, Azeda. Thank you and good morning, everyone. It's really a pleasure to be here. And I wanted to second the opinion of David and Brian and we also see an increasing demand for including gender and equality in the other TCPs. Because we also believe that harnessing all the talents is quite important to Ashleigh. Everyone, please don't forget to bring your passes. Bring your passes, you can leave your stuff here. In reason of a technical incident in our building, we ask you to evacuate the locals. Please come in and bring your pass. Energy and just as one evidence is that there are around 22 to 25% of women working in energy globally, which is really a sad number and we need to increase that, to harness all the talents that we need. So what we want to discuss today is that we can, as the Equality TCP, perhaps be involved in providing guidelines or consultations to other TCPs, if that is of interest, to making sure that we are not as one of the cross-cutting TCPs in the IEA, working in isolation, but collaborating with you all together. Thank you. Thank you very much, Azeda. And thank you for that offer. We will go now to the GHGTCP. Keith, over to you. Thank you, Chair. And I'd also like to say that I think these meetings provide a very useful function. Like others, I'd like to give my support to coordination groups at the greenhouse gas R&D program. We focus on carbon capture utilization and storage technologies and technologies for carbon dioxide reduction. So we are quite cross-cutting. We come under the Working Party for fossil energy and we're also invited to attend renewable energy working party meetings. And at the fossil energy working party, we provide updates and such like. But we do have, I mean, our work program cuts across power systems, low carbon hydrogen, industrial carbonization, and for carbon dioxide transport. There's the road sector, international shipping, synthetic fuels, international aviation, possibly. So we cut across quite a large number of areas outside of the working parties that we report to normally. So I see a very good function for a coordination group that can cover a broader set of TCPs and interest areas. Thank you very much. We'll go now to the city's TCP, Helmut. OK, many thanks. I'm quite new here this round as it's the youngest TCP and it's a cross-cutting TCP. And I want to follow up some inputs before and have a slide. Many thanks. Sorry, I didn't have one remark and one input maybe for a further discussion. One remark is about the requested guidance from a third and working party to TCPs. As far as I see, there are a lot of TCPs focusing on technologies. It was mentioned as being silos before. And some other TCPs like the city's TCP or users, for example, or equality, who are focusing on cross-cutting issues and linking technologies and non-technological aspects. And so on the one hand side, I would ask if there is a strategic advice when it comes to extension or development of strategic plans to have focus on technologies or non-technological aspects in those TCPs who are working on that field to have some linkages there. That's the request. And the input for discussion, for further discussion, would be how can we define or redefine TCPs because there are some technologically and non-technologically oriented TCPs. And maybe this TCP is focused on target groups like cities or end users or users could act as a platform for technological TCPs to bring results or joint research projects to a new community of researchers. That would be my request to discuss that and the new role of some of these TCPs. And thanks. Thank you very much. We're going to continue along the list. We have a few TCPs with plagues up. I just wanted to remind certain delegates as well to please feel free to raise your flag and talk about the priorities within your countries also. Next on my list is the Energy Efficient End Use Equipment TCP, Hans Paul. Thank you, Amanda. And good morning, everybody. Very great to see all of you here in Paris, even with a short walk in the fresh air, as Timor said. Much appreciated. I have two remarks. One is regarding, say, the coordination and the coordination of complexity. And the other, indeed, the correlation or the cooperation with societal aspects. Regarding the complexity, I've always wondered, indeed, the society and especially energy transition is complex. But if we mirror with our organizational structure the complexity, then I don't think we will come very far. Organizations are meant to reduce complexity. And I think that is something to maybe to keep in mind, even if that means that at some point there is a bit of an overlap or things being done double. As far as we know it and we monitor it, I don't think there's any harm, because also the doubling is mostly on those topics like, for instance, heat pump, hydrogen, flexibility, where there is most attention needed from society. In that respect, I also very much welcome the new setup of the coordination groups, which are, say, focusing on those cross-cutting and coordination aspects that are really wanted by the governments at a certain point in time. And therefore, these should also have a limited time frame. And second, the connection with society, I very much welcome. And I've already said that when I was presenting the extension for the 4E, in the NQ's working party, I very much welcomed the offer from the Equality TCP to help us with guidance and guidelines and maybe webinars on how to implement this cross-cutting aspect in our TCP and in other TCP's. And I think that is certainly of great value. Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll now go to the Energy and Buildings and Communities TCP. Paul. Thank you very much, Chair. Great pleasure to be here today with all colleagues. First of all, I'd like to take up the offer from my colleague from the Equality TCP for some help. We have actually drafted a Equality Diversity and Inclusion Policy recently within Energy and Buildings and Communities. And we certainly appreciate some help in finalizing that. So thank you for that. I'd like to raise a topic of sort of cross-TCP activity. And I'm slightly hesitant to raise it because it's the topic of digital systems, which of course, we've just experienced the problem with. But as you'll be aware, they pervade across all areas of society, technology, infrastructure these days. And there's an increasing need for them to communicate with each other in order that we can effectively operate our buildings and other assets and support societal aims. In buildings, we have seen a massive transformation over the last decade in digital systems for designing, constructing, and operating buildings. And we have a number of ongoing annexes now, which look at the importance of digital systems to manage energy effectively and efficiently and increasingly for buildings to be able to interact with energy supply systems, transport systems, and many other areas of infrastructure. So I think digitalization is probably an important area for cross-TCP coordination and activity. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next, we have heat pumping technologies. Monica, over to you. Thank you. And I will make it short. But I will, from the TCP's perspective, just bring in. But we really much appreciate these activities in order to find ways for make collaborative activities between the TCP's and the coordination groups. I think it's high value. And very important. And I fully agree that digitalization could be one such an area where we need to make a lot of cross-capping activities. Thank you very much. Perhaps just a note, I have three more flags on my list. And then perhaps we will break for coffee. So next is users, David. Thank you. I've been thinking wrestling, as I suspect many of us have, with how we can translate a widespread desire for more cross-TCP collaboration into practice. And just to pick up on Paul's suggestion and Monica's reinforcement of something, for example, like digitalization, I think we need to pick tasks which have certain characteristics. I think those tasks need to be ones that can be, to coin a kind of computer science term, parallelized. So we can take a larger objective and break it into chunks that can be executed in parallel in separate TCP's. But we can construct an architecture which brings what is returned from each TCP back into an integrated whole. So I think that there are certain classes of cross-cutting challenge, which will lend themselves more easily to cross-TCP collaboration. But I think we really need to establish perhaps a small working group with TCP's about the mechanics and the practice of making this work and think of those examples we can use to demonstrate success. So potentially starting, rather than starting with the challenge, starting with the class of problem that is most amenable to being addressed with a cross-TCP platform. And then doing that as an exemplar and learning from that practice and then iterating that and broadening that out. So just some reflections. Because I think there is quite a level of not so much concern but mindfulness of the challenges of operationalizing these ideas of cross-TCP collaboration. Some thoughts. Thanks, David, those are very helpful. So I'm gonna read through who's on my list. I do wanna give people a chance to speak if you've raised your flag. I also wanna make sure that I'm giving you enough time to collaborate in the hallways during coffee break. So I'll ask you to keep your interventions fairly short just in the interest of covering everyone but still having time to connect outside of this room. So next on the list is energy storage, Bert. Okay, thank you. Very short. I want to raise only one topic here because we give quite a lot of information to the cert. Information coming from all our tasks. But it's not for us, not always clear what the cert is really doing with this information. And that's sometimes frustrating even. So I would like to ask for more feedback, to more communication so that at least that we can help to bring sign-based information to you so that we all can give that information to our stakeholders. So, well, very short. Thank you very much, very helpful. Now we have a high temperature superconductivity, Laura. Thank you very much and just one remark. Our TCP is strongly technology oriented but the benefits of high temperature superconductivity devices will be mainly in the power grid that is a cross-cutting issue, not only for renewable spot for all the generation park and also for the energy system of the future. Thank you very much. We're now going to go to Sir Dallaget, European Commission. Thank you very much. As I said yesterday, the Commission has adopted last week communication on the revision of the SET plan. The SET plan includes implementation working groups which are somehow very similar to some of the TCP's here. And we are proposing an innovative approach for cross-cutting issues, which is to have a specific expert working in a short term with the implementation working group, which could be the TCP's here, to design research tools, not only IDs, but research tools, models, guidelines and so on to tackle the cross-cutting issues into the work of the implementation working group on technologies. So it's very pragmatic and among the cross-cutting you have digitalization, users needs, you have also access to market circularity. Thank you. Thank you very much, Helen. We'll go now to Photovotek Power Systems. Yes, thank you. Good morning, everyone. Just a few quick words on the importance of inter-task collaboration. I think PVPS thinks that there could be quite a list of topics that are highly important and that TCP's could work on together. Having said that, we also acknowledge that today it's been quite hard to do so. There's a recent example of when TCP, with the hydrogen TCP and PVPS working and I think it was in Boulder, Colorado to work on what could become a mutual task on green hydrogen this time around. So that's very welcome. We also welcome the proposed restructuring of the IA CERT committee, et cetera. I think that opens the door to better cooperation. It's also highly welcome that the IA itself can participate in tasks. We think that's very valuable as well. Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll now go to Isgan. Thank you, and I second what you said. So collaborations between the TCP's are very welcome from our point of perspective. So we really would value sharing best practices between the TCP's, maybe have some value in face-to-face workshops. For example, on how do others handle sponsors in their TCP's. Is there any guidelines for new secretariats and also an IA101 for new EXCO members would be very helpful. So that's something that we could collaborate on. Thank you. Thank you very much. Lithuania. Thank you. I would like to respond to the first question about the government's current priorities in energy technology, related policy and research. So I represent the Ministry of Energy here in CERT. So as a ministry we are currently begun updating our national energy independence strategy. It's quite a regular exercise every five, six years. So when we define our medium term and long-term priorities, and it's in one sentence, it's all about green transition. It's still an early draft. So, but it casts an R&D and I a component, a technology component in it. And I'm tasked to draft it actually. So I got some preliminary priority orientations that will go very quickly through them, not taking much of the time. So one part is about solar and wind technologies. So the idea is to have more effective ways to utilize electricity from these sources, but also some future maybe technological breakthroughs in this sense. We also have energy storage, especially batteries. I'll bundling in one green hydrogen power to extend e-fuels. Also heat pumps of industrial size, mostly for heating purposes as more than half our country's heating is coming from centralized sources and most of that is coming from biomass. So we look further in the future to diversify this technology mix for heat pumps. And finally, it's smart grids, smart cities, digitalization and consumer involvement. So we're looking forward to cooperating with you on this. Thank you so much. Oh, I see one last flag up. I can't... Distract heating, I see two flags up. Distract heating and then combustion, perfect. Yeah, I just thought it might be worth mentioning as digitalization has been mentioned by two delegates here. We also feel that digitalization is something that cuts across many technologies. But I thought it might be just worth mentioning that we actually have coming up in three weeks or so, four weeks or so, a workshop reporting on a major project on digitalization. Obviously it's been in the realms of district heating and cooling. That's on the 20th and 21st of November in Berlin. And on the 22nd, we'll be scoping out the follow-on project for that. So if there are people that might be interested in putting forward some cross-cutting elements from their own programs, that might be a perfect opportunity, 20th to 22nd in Berlin. And I can give further details bilaterally if anyone's interested. Wonderful, thank you so much. Combustion TCP, please. Okay, thank you. And I've been hesitating to raise this flag, but following up on the Lithuania comments on alignment with government priorities. The combustion TCP is really focused on technology development and removing barriers to deployment of promising technologies. It's incumbent on us to understand and identify what technologies are likely to have an impact in a politically uncertain future. And I am concerned and would just ask that we approach thoughtfully the idea of aligning the TCPs with the priorities of current government. Some of us work in environments where the political priorities can flip 180 degrees every four years and it creates a difficult situation. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. All right, I don't see any last minute flags going up. So I wanna thank all of you for the very excellent interventions. Certainly lots of food for thought. I know many of us have been taking notes and it gives us a lot to think about as we continue our thinking and our discussions through the next couple of days. We're gonna break now for coffee. There is coffee just outside the room where it was this morning. I'm gonna ask people to be back in here at 11.30. So that's 20 minutes. Hopefully that's enough time to grab a quick bite and drink and make some connections. When we come back, we're going to focus in on a session that looks at 50 years of technology collaboration and what that means in terms of preparations for the next IEA ministerial meeting. So thank you. Hear a lot of noise still from outside. Maybe, yeah, maybe we can get them in before we start because we want to get everyone's views. We want everyone to connect and network but not too much, please. It's not too time to work. Okay, so thank you for coming back and thank you for the excellent session that we just had the first session. I had a couple of conversations over the coffee break and with some of the colleagues from the TCPs and maybe a personal reflection here. I'm very happy to hear the very positive feedback we get on these new coordination groups. On the one hand, on the other hand, please, this is also the opportunity for you to raise, I mean, not now in this session, but at the margins or later or whatever, to raise anything that might hold you back from participating. You have the cert at the table, many governments at the table. If you feel there is something that holds you back, be it from, say, information, the secretariat doesn't inform you well enough or you don't know enough what's going on in the other TCPs or funding that some pragmatic issues. So then this is the opportunity to raise it. We are not here to just exchange nice words and good ideas but also put some of the issues on the table if you want to do that. Anyway, we are now coming to the session on the IEA's ministerial meeting taking place next year and it's a very important milestone, I said that earlier in my opening remarks. It's the 50 years on adversity, so it's also in some ways the 50 years of anniversary of the TCPs and I mean, or approaching that. So I would really like to, and our member governments want the same to make a real point about technology, R, D and D and the importance of it. It has evolved as I tried to say in the beginning from a perspective that is very energy security oriented, how can you reduce energy consumption in order to improve energy security to a much broader portfolio of questions from how to address climate change to more systemic type of questions. We have heard that in the interventions from several of the TCP's social quite of questions, et cetera, et cetera, but in any case, it's collaboration oriented, it's R, D and D oriented and I think we have a lot of good stories to tell. At least I hope so about the collaboration offers of the last 50 years and on the one hand, and this is one of the objectives that we are trying to work towards. We have that energy innovation forum that we've been asked to set up in the context of the ministerial meeting and so it will be a good point to reflect on what's been achieved but also to look forward and set ambitions for the next years for us as the secretariat for the technology related work but also the network itself, including the circuits, working parties and the TCP's. So we have basically two guiding questions that we would like to discuss with you today in this session. The first one is the kind of strategic guidance you would like to see on energy technology, R, D and D, coming from the ministerial meeting. Is there anything that you need from the ministers, not only from the secretariat, the cert, et cetera, but really from the ministers? Is there a high level of principles that you're interested to see coming out of the ministerial meeting? This is one element. The other question is about the stories or messages you would like to share for the IA's energy technology narrative at the IA ministerial meeting. To start with the second question, I would like to hand over to Paul Lucas from the hydrogen TCP. We've said it in the beginning, hydrogen TCP. From the beginning of the IA journey, in many ways, it was already one of the initial areas that governments identified as an area of cooperation in the 1970s. So Paul, please, over to you. Thank you very much. I am very honored to represent the oldest TCP here. And I had a look on the history of the TCP because we keep the minutes of the first text committee and maybe I can send you if you need. In fact, at the beginning of the 75, a working party on hydrogen was created. It was very interesting. There is some details here. Because why? Because in fact, hydrogen theme or TCP follows the IA story. At this time, energy security was the main priority because we were just after the first oil crisis. And some countries like Germany, Netherlands, et cetera, was very concerned by the future of the chemical industry and the industry in general. And it's a reason why they decide to look for the future, how to produce hydrogen. And at that time, it was mainly from nuclear energy. The first topic on hydrogen TCP, led by Germany, was how to couple a nuclear reactor with hydrogen production, with thermochemical cycle, electrolysis. And the first task, task one, two, three, four was on this aspect. So it was the reason why after two years of the working party, the working party said, okay, now we finish our work and we want to create what's called implemented agreement. So in 77, in October or August, I don't remember, the first ex-committing was initiated and it started like that. Energy security, no, of course, not a word on climate change, et cetera, because it was too early. And after step by step, they said, okay, but hydrogen production is good, but maybe we can have a look on the hydrogen storage, hydrogen transportation, et cetera. And step by step, new task appears. And not only on technology side, but also on system integration. So it's a reason why step by step, the scope and now our TCP is focused, as I mentioned before, on the all-valued chain of hydrogen from low-carbon source. And it's a DNA of our TCP to work on the all-valued chain, taking into account all low-carbon. Of course now, the main driver are not, energy security is coming back now, but of course we take into account the driver of climate change on CO2 emission, of course. So now, after 45 years, near 48 years, we are, we achieve, we are in total 48 tasks. In fact, we are very close to 50 tasks in one year, 50 tasks, 50 years, and 100 ex-committing. It will be in one year. So I think we will celebrate also this good number, just two years after the AI, because we are shift two years. And now, of course, we are very focused on, also on technology development and of course on R&D. And we are very proud of what we achieve because what I can say is that very early, we have a look on the very low-TRL technologies. Like before the 80s, we started a work on photo-electrochemical process to produce hydrogen. It was 40 years ago. So we have a balance now between low-TRL, of course, mainstream technology like electrolysis, storage, and all the use of hydrogen, including hydrogen for industry, which is very important and hydrogen carrier. Now, we want to extend. And for that, we need a lot of collaboration. It's a reason why we have now starting collaboration with other TCP, but also with external organization outside AI, like the sister organization NEA, in nuclear field, some other international initiative on hydrogen. There is many, many, maybe too much. And our challenge is to manage our growth because we are 33 countries. And many countries are asking for membership. We have to manage this external collaboration, which is not so easy. And of course, to integrate hydrogen and the energy system. So of course, I am just one of the chair of this long story. I want just to thank the first chair, Jean-Pierre Consain from European Commission who created this TCP at that time, implementing agreement. And of course, I think our DNA will, from the beginning, will guide us to very good success, including also not only technical task, but cross-cutting task like safety. Safety was like a permanent task in our effort. And now task like certification, et cetera. So I don't know if the three minutes are over, but it was, I wanted to say, and I will be very happy to collaborate with IE Secretaria for preparing the 50 anniversary. Thank you. Yeah, thank you very much, Paul. And as a German, I'm surprised to hear about not surprise is the wrong word, but struck to hear the similarities in terms of interest to today, how to replace hydrogen in the chemical industry, that's what you said, was the main preoccupation at the time. And I think it's the same today, even though the pathway will differ now, no longer nuclear in Germany, but renewable hydrogen, but other than that, very important topic at the time and today again. Now, turning to the next topic here, what next technology if you want? We did a very special analysis in the context of energy technology perspectives a couple of years ago in 2020. In fact, to better understand how long it takes for certain key technologies to move from the laboratory to the market. And wind is an example from which we learned a lot. I'm sure Stefan from the wind TCP can say a few more words about what the TCP has gone through in this long period. I think that might be the wrong slide. And it would be good to understand how what has happened in the wind TCP and how you see the role in the transition for the wind technologies from the lab to the market. So the role of the TCP in that context. Stefan? I don't have a slide, thank you. Just to give a short talk about what happened in wind, we're a bit younger than hydrogen. First annual report is from 78. All of our annual reports as PDF on our website. So if you have an interest to see another typewriter written document, be my guest, have a look. We started with 13 countries and four annexes at that time. And if you look at the title of those annexes, they already dealing with environmental impact, the energy system, citing and integration into the system under the large scale wind conversion. And these tasks or annexes at that time really define the topical areas we are operating now in. So we have many more tasks but they're still organized in this logical structure. And there's good reason for that because the machines became very, very big and with that the complexity of course grew enormously. The advantage of having IA for this global collaboration at that time, clearly that was the one place to go for international collaboration. In the meantime, there are other networks on a European level or in Asia or in the United States but for global agreement on what's needed as grand challenges for example, their IA wind really is the place to be and without any doubt all stakeholders accept that form as the international global forum to come forward with these kind of strategies and to give you two examples that we use to communicate our outcomes that are appreciated. One are recommended practices that we do. These are pre-normative standards where the industry again on a global level agrees how to do stuff before there might be like an IAC standard. And the other thing is what we introduced 2019. We're gonna do every three, four years now topical expert meetings on grand challenges on wind. And that is really collecting the expert's opinion of all experts within the IA countries on a global scale. And what really is interesting and nice to see there people are not coming and showing up with their hobby topics or want to make a pitch for their own area to work and to get funding. It's really looking what is needed to bring the industry forward and roll out that technology. And I wouldn't know any better place or other place except IA how to do that. So we really appreciate being part of this great family. Thank you very much, Stefan. Very encouraging to hear and really great examples. Also good to hear your perspective on how things have evolved because obviously there are many international fora as you said, but it's great to see how the TCP has continued to establish itself as a go-to place for answering the type of questions around wind. Next is our colleagues from the smart grids TCP. Don't press the button too quickly. So I can finish what Pierre put together for me. So happy great. Because we would like to say here that ISCAN is a very good example of a TCP that operates both under the IA but also under the Clean Energy Ministerial. And so it is a very good example to show how a TCP can both be relevant from a personal policy as well as a technology perspective and how this plays out in practice. So now we key over to you. Thank you. Yeah, so ISCAN, International Smart Grid Action Network is committed to identifying emerging advances and sharing best practices but also raising high level governmental awareness on smart grids. The ISCAN TCP as reset sets itself apart by being both a SEM and an IEA initiative. And in addition, as shown on the slide we have six permanent working groups. Can one press off the button Sorry, I made some, yes. Thank you. So for the achievements, I chose to highlight our knowledge sharing methods in ISCAN. We are, of course, yeah, delivering many different outputs in ISCAN for dissemination. And we believe that communication is key regarding deployment and impact. And this is also why we have a working group dedicated to only this. The communications working group relates to both the internal communication but also the external communication within ISCAN. So for example, it structures the way that we communicate so that we ensure a clear coherent message but also that we talk to each other and understand each other internally, not only externally. As an example, we have the latest knowledge sharing project where the communication working group were responsible to facilitate a workshop aiming at producing policy briefs for the SEM. It was on network planning and decision making under uncertainty. So doing this by engaging both our working groups, internal expert, but also talking to TSOs and DSOs, policy makers and research institutes in 12 different countries and gathering inputs from IRENA. So it's a focal point to gather knowledge. Yeah, so another successful achievement I would say in ISCAN is our ISCAN Award of Excellence. We have had great success with recognizing and highlighting successful smart grid projects around the world. So not only related to ISCAN projects, but more broadly, winners and runner-ups are mentioned at the SEM side events and this year they were at multiple side events so it really gets great exposure at a high level audience. And this also of course furthers our mission of smart grid deployment. And meanwhile, this could of course not happen or be achieved without our global collaboration which brings me to the strengths. Naturally, ISCAN are collaborating across sectors and a lot of different initiatives under IA and SEM and other sector relevant networks. And I mentioned some on the slide, yeah, which are maybe the closest relations that we have. And while the TCPs are very distinct in focus, I would say as we talked about today, we are becoming more interconnected and we are in ISCAN very much aware of this and our cross-disciplinary approach, I would say first is synergy. And we believe that we will collaborate even more closely with other TCPs and other networks in future. So yeah, that's something that we are focusing on. Also, yeah, we believe that this is a very good global reach platform where we can create credible but also impactful policy messages. That was my speech. Excellent, thank you very much Vicky. Moving now to a very different technology area to Keith from the greenhouse gas R&D TCP. If you could talk a bit about the key outcomes of the TCP over the years, it's been very active, very big conference as well. And what role you see for yourself in the international energy landscape. Keith, over to you. Thank you, Tima. So I think we have a slide to come up. But our formal name is the IEA greenhouse gas. No, it's a slide before that. Our formal name is the IEA greenhouse gas R&D program. Within the IEA family, we're known as the GHG TCP, but outside of that and internationally, we're probably better known as the IEA GHG. We have 38 members, 18 contracting parties, mainly countries, but we also have the European Commission and OPEC. Denmark is our most recent member who rejoined us. And we have 20 sponsor members. And our most recent sponsor member is PDO or Petroleum Development Oman. Here you can see a list of our, we were looking at the slide before this, but this one is fine, shows our accomplishments since we were formed in 1991, so 32 years ago. If I start with the knowledge sharing, actually the third bullet point down, this technical reports take up most of our, most of the time of the technical staff. We've published over 360 of those now. We publish about 10 to 12 a year and all of these are, the topics for all of these are selected by our Executive Committee. We run a number of networks, examples of those are on the story side. We have the monitoring network and risk management network. We also have the CCS Cost Network, our most recent Cost Network meeting earlier this year was hosted by the University of Groningen and the proceedings of that is due out very shortly. We're also, we were also founder of of a journal, International Journal of GHG Control. This journal, or much of the, much of the research on CCUS and CDR technologies are published, is published in this journal. International CCS summer schools each year, we run a summer school for young professionals from industry or academia or and academia. We have about 50 attendees a year. It's been held annually since 2007 and we currently have around 700 alumni from more than 60 countries. Some of the attendees from our earlier conferences now occupy senior roles in industry and academia, focusing still on CCUS and CDR technologies. UNFCCC related, we're a trusted advisor to international bodies, well, the PIA, but also bodies of the UNFCCC. We attend annually the COP meetings. We used to attend under the auspices of the IEA, but now we are affiliated in our own right. At the last nine COP meetings, we have organized or co-organized the only official CCS side event and that we also are doing so at the forthcoming COP meeting in the Middle East. We're active in the London protocol and have been engaged in all CCS amendments under that protocol, most recently removing barriers to enable cross-border movement of CO2 for storage. We're accredited expert reviewers for in the IPCC assessment reports and we made substantive input to the IPCC's special report on CCS. Pioneering CCS projects, we have had substantive roles in earlier CCS projects, including the SACS project, the Webern project and the Air Products Carbon Capture Project and the Webern network author. Finally, our conference series, we are guardians of two major conferences, the largest one, the Greenhouse Gas Control Technologies Conference, GHGT series, that attracts over 1,000 delegates every two years year being hosted by in Canada, in Calgary. That's GHGT-17 and a lot of work is going on presently in organization of that conference. Secondly, we organize and coordinate the postcombustion capture conference series. The most recent one was in September of this year. So just a few weeks ago hosted by the US DOE Nettle in Pittsburgh, US. So that's just a flavor of some of the activities and accomplishments that we undertake at IEA GHGT-CP and we have seen internationally and from recent IEA publications that CCUS and CDR technologies are essential if we're to meet our 2030, 2050 targets. Thank you. Thank you very much, Keith. Moving from greenhouse gas storage to energy storage as the next one, certainly an area that is already important, but without any doubts gonna be critical for future clean energy systems. So curious to hear the views from Bert about history of the TCP and the role moving forward. Thank you. Sorry for pushing the button a little bit too early. And also sorry because I interpreted the question a little bit different because it was asked to give our thoughts on the strengths of the TCP network. So I apologize if you want to know more in detail about the energy storage TCP. Maybe you can subscribe or newsletter. So, okay, same having said that our TCP it's more than 40 years of experience. We are now at our 96th Executive Committee which means that we are already here for 43 years. And we also have today 43 tasks or task 43 is running at the moment. So, but one of, I have listed seven bullets here which were our thoughts on the TCP network. As already mentioned at the beginning by you already that at the beginning years ago, 10, 15 years ago we see more and more focus on climate change. So also the TCP network gained in attention and attractiveness. We also see that in our TCP the last couple of years we have regrown with five extra countries and one sponsor. So it means every year one extra country. We also see a change on focus on technical solutions towards a more integrated system oriented approach. We also see that in our TCP so sector coupling, smart design, control of energy storage systems and so on. And in our opinion, it's a quite important change. It's also one of the good things is that the network it's give us the ability to mobilize the whole network so that there is an enormous potential in the past and also and it will continue also offer, sorry and the enormous potential in the future for influencing national global energy research and energy and climate policy. It makes also possible to combine forces to bring research into application and implementation in a much more targeted rapid manner that was also mentioned by one of the previous speakers. And I think one of the important things also is that it enables smaller countries and emerging economies with smaller budgets to share knowledge so that it saves time and money for them, but we are not perfect. Nobody's perfect. So despite of all the successes, we are not there yet. We can contribute better in the future and we can do that by an improved exchange between the TCPs by a farance of duplication. I think that's a very important one and that's one of the roles I also see for the search and the working parties. Cross-TCP work, increased transfer of findings to energy policy and also if we look to our own TCP more attention to the full potential of storage and sit there. I think this is a task for the whole IEA, not only for the TCPs, we cannot do that by our own. And if you look to the future, no storage, no energy transition, so our TCP has the opportunity to connect all the different thoughts in the renewable energy system and that's also what we will and want to do. So thank you. Thank you very much, Bert. Now opening the floor to the whole group and coming back to some of the questions that we are particularly interested in. There are two ones, what kind of strategic guidance are you expecting from the ministerial meeting coming forward next year? And at the same time, do you have any stories, messages to share that can help us establish a narrative at the ministerial meeting around technology R&D? I would like to probably just, before I hand over to anyone who would like to make a comment, we have roughly 20 minutes in this session and we'll also hear from Paulo, the secretary of the group later in this meeting. So we don't have that much time, but I would like to make you aware of the opportunity here. Know that a ministerial meeting is where around 40 ministers are coming from all around the world. There are CEOs from large international companies coming to the IEA from the entire energy spectrum from fossil fuels to renewables to whatever it is. Anything is represented there. And we have that, as I said, opportunity of an energy innovation forum where we're gonna invite startups as well and other actors, academics in the space. This is an opportunity to showcase what you're doing. What the TCP network is all about, what is the value that it brings to international R&D. I said it in the beginning, it's sometimes very difficult to make a case for international collaboration. It's very difficult to be tangible here. So whatever you have to share that is tangible, that we can bring to the attention that we are planning to do a video about the history of innovation, the role of the TCP's there. And I'm gonna try to nudge the ministers a bit and all the other participants there to hear what they're expecting from us, where they see the priorities moving in the context of the wider strategic objectives that they have keeping in mind what was also said by the combustion TCP earlier today that of course priorities change over time, but I think the broader framework is there. And so please take it as a real opportunity and help us make the case for the TCP's, the work of the TCP's and what you need from the ministers to improve things moving forward. So I did not follow specifically who went first. So I'll just go from left to right first and then we'll see how it goes turning over to wind. Yeah, thank you. So especially for the wind industry, probably you're aware that the manufacturers are struggling at the moment to make any kind of money they're making losses. So it's really a challenging environment. And you see that governments now set up roadmaps to have a clear pathway and a ramp up that is guaranteed so that they can invest and evolve their industry. And what we would really be happy to see these long-term roadmaps guaranteeing activities and also financial support to have that also for the supporting R&D activities. Because it is up and down over the years in different countries and that makes it really challenging to come forward with a stable R&D roadmap. And I think that needs to go hand in hand industry for the industry. That's probably the most important but also supporting the R&D path next to that. Excellent points, the right next user's TCP, David. Yeah, thanks. I think, again, this is in the context of the sort of strategic guidance on R&D priorities. I think we need a substantial increase in the emphasis on monitoring and evaluation technologies. As we deploy really quickly, there's gonna be a lot of unintended consequences, particularly as we get system integration. So we need technologies like national scale observatories, digital twins, living laboratories that can pick up policy successes and failures and iteratively refine and improve those technologies. And that's everything also from satellite technologies through to smartphone apps that sit in the pocket of the heat pump installer to make sure the heat pump is working properly. It's a whole suite of technologies where we do some work on but that will need to ramp up hugely. I think there's a real challenge with the skills pipeline. I think the TCP community should think about what it does to help foster the skills pipeline both in terms of policy expertise but also R&D expertise, particularly in the sort of developing country context. And I think we need to, we currently plan systems for a one and a half degree world. We need systems that will work in a three and a half degree world. And I don't know whether we're putting enough emphasis on systems that decompose elegantly to deliver safe systems in a three and a half degree world which is kind of where we headed at the moment. Thank you very much, David and maybe on the skills pipeline, I think you heard a good example here about summer schools from the greenhouse gas TCP so, but I'm sure there are other approaches. Turning now to Brian from ETSAP. Thank you, Timor. Just answering the second question first. ETSAP like the hydrogen TCP started in 1976 and I think the clear benefits of ETSAP at the time was addressing a gap that was there because we were facing, the world was facing an oil crisis was about to go into another and there weren't modeling tools to actually guide policymakers in how to respond to that. So a key narrative from my perspective from ETSAP was preparing us for the future in a way that we were really drastically affected by the oil crisis at the time to avoid that happening in the future. And of course the tools initially Mercal and then times developed and responded to new policy goals, particularly around climate coupling that with energy security. And now we see these tools being used in about 70 countries around the world including the IEA as you mentioned to inform policy decisions around the future of energy system evolution. So that's on the narrative piece. In terms of a kind of question or strategic guidance point for governments, I think one of the challenges in all of what we do is this bridging between the analysis and the policy. And there's two dimensions to that. We need to improve how we communicate, how we engage but the policy system needs to also adjust and build absorptive capacity. So that's the piece I'd suggest to bring to the attention of the ministers would be to increase their efforts to build absorptive capacity in the policy system to be able to harness the analysis coming from the research and the analytical communities. Because that bridging can bring huge benefits but it doesn't happen by itself and it does require resources. One of the key challenges I find in engaging with government departments is the limitations of bandwidth that they have. And so enabling, providing for civil servants and politicians to actually time and bandwidth to engage with analysis I think is the key thing I'd suggest. And there's a number of bridging mechanisms I can suggest if of interest but getting that point across I think is the first step. Thank you. Yeah, most excellent points really. Thank you a lot. Thanks a lot, Brian. And that's what you explained on the modeling side is a very tangible indeed success story that we should all build upon. And if you have similar stories to tell from your TCPs no word came from what it has achieved please share that with us. Moving on to energy and buildings please. Thank you. Mine's a simple request for the ministers about funding. I think there's an issue certainly within our TCP in a significant difference between the approach to funding that's available to participants in our programs. In some countries there are dedicated funds available to participate in IA programs. In others there aren't. In others there are something in between maybe encouragement within the existing R&D framework programs and so forth. And I think we all know the benefits of the international collaboration that we participate in here and everybody around the table could regale you with stories of those benefits from each of our TCPs. But I think there would be an important benefit if the ministers were able to look at how they approach funding in this area and to see if there are more consistent mechanisms that could be adopted. I would also say if the ministries themselves were actually funding some of this research rather than in our case the research councils the results would go directly back into those ministries and could feed into policy in a way that they don't at the moment. Thank you. Very good point and we have the cert here at the table. So whoever feels they wish to respond to the funding please already right now. Otherwise we can wait for the ministers. I think next one was Australia. Thank you, Teemo. I just wanted to reflect on the narrative opportunity for TCPs to bring to the ministers. I think there's three key opportunities that could be brought forward. I think the first one is about the collective contribution of your lifetime of TCPs work to where we are now. The latest we are report shows that there was a drop or it was the 1.5 degree report that the last time they're modeling said that in 2050 we still had 50% of the technologies that needed to be taken to commercial levels to achieve those outcomes. This time around it's dropped down to only 30% need to be developed. That's a huge drop in a three year window. And I think there's a really great opportunity for the TCPs here to be able to say well we've contributed to that drop. It's the direct result of the type of research and innovation that's been going on for the last kind of five years in this space. So connect yourselves into those outcomes and don't let that just be because it happened. It didn't just happen. It's because of all the work that you've been doing. The second point then is around again the outcomes from the work and linking what your TCP focus technologies are into how they're contributing to those pathways forward not just under the wheel but also under the political agreements that have come out either the G20 who also endorsed the tripling of renewables and doubling of energy efficiency goals and will have COP28 between now and the ministerial in February. So a chance to put forward the outcomes that your TCPs are working on, how they directly relate back to those big political agendas and that global goal that we are working towards. It again gives you that opportunity to demonstrate what you have contributed but also what you will contribute. And then also just highlighting that importance of industry and academic research just despite some of the policy landscapes that have shifted over the years. And I know a colleague earlier noted on some countries who have big changes in the political agenda. Your work has been a constant through those. And then just to the point that was just raised use it as a chance to remind ministers why investing in R&D is important. So if you can get those first two bits right then it really helps with that point around funding. So you're asking them how to fund it, tell them why and really take that opportunity. Thanks. It's a very good, I think that letter point resonates very strongly with me. Believe me, it's easier to, I mean, you know that very well to pitch for money when you can make the case very easily on building on success stories not on prospective success stories but on achieved success stories. Energy efficiency and energy efficient and use equipment. Thank you, Timor. Regarding success stories, I want to shortly point out to the two reports in succession we did at 4E on the results from energy efficiency standards and labeling, they are available and there you find direct examples of energy efficiency standards and labeling for products, reducing energy consumption and also not making products more expensive. So I think that is a very concrete example from a TCP work. Regarding strategic say guidance from the ministerial I think what several of the other speakers have said I think continuity and consistency is very important and that is both in a kind of say content guidance and I think we have with the net zero say energy system in 2050. We have that as a long-term goal but also in a funding environment if budgets was set well vary a lot throughout the years that will hamper much more progress than if they are stable and another point and that may be a bit of a paradox that we need to think about is we're talking here about R&D and technology and we all know that that you could say is on the safe side of politics because it doesn't interact too much with the human with society at least not too much on a political level but we also want and that is being seen in the IEA also in the secretariat we also want to be policy relevant and then we get into this policy cycle where things can shift from one day to the other and where there are multiple say interests and where continuity and consistency is not as easy to be conceived as purely on the R&D side so attention to the kind of difference and the balance and the tension between say the technology and the R&D and more working into the policy cycle that would be very helpful. Very good point. I have four more on my list and we'll need to cut then if that's okay because we are running very late now high temperatures, superconductivity, heat then district heating and cooling then international center for sustainable carbon and then the PVPS and then, yeah, so. So, and this is for your second questions about the messages that TCP want to give to the ministerial. The R&D transition has already supposed to follow some strategy also medium and long-term strategies by the government. However, the implementation it's not clear in terms of technology in a very long term. I mean, the message is taking to account also technology that will reach maturity as high temperature superconductivity. For example, we developed a roadmap for each components and taking to account these technologies in your plan of the developing and designing infrastructure. In this case, the power grid because this can influence, for example, transmission system operator to consider this and also in a longer term to influence investors to invest in this and to accelerate this. Okay, thank you very much district heating. Thank you. I just wanted to say a few words about what's been happening with district heating and cooling. First in 2023, we've seen three new member countries join. I would say as well that new member countries over the last few years have been immediately keen to host Exco meetings, to host our biannual symposium. So they've come in with a great deal of enthusiasm. The whole thing that's been really happening is as an enabling infrastructure, I believe together with heat pumps and storage, we're looking at systems with reduced supply temperatures, which enable us to use more renewable sources, more renewable heat and available waste energy in our communities and address the higher levels of energy efficiency in buildings, which mean that the required loads are reduced. One very recent new report entitled Hybrid Energy Networks highlights some of those links and it comes with a supplement called resource exergy. And I just wanted to make the point that I think in terms of ongoing and forthcoming energy policy that we need to take on board energy quality as well as energy quantity. Thank you. The points now International Centre for Sustainable Capital. Thank you. I just wanted to say that I feel a bit like the bad fairy at the christening as a representative of the ICSC, which was originally IACOL research. I understand that my TCP was actually the oldest as we came into being in 1975 and we published our first reports on climate change back in the 1980s, years before the IPCC came into being. Our TCP is coming to an end in the next few years as the energy world has evolved and that's good. But I am proud of much of what we've achieved. We've done excellent work on reducing the environmental impact of coal and apologies for using a four letter word. We've published around 500 reports. We've done monthly webinars on YouTube for a decade. We've organized many workshops and conferences. We've worked on emissions reductions of CO2, socks, knocks and mercury. We've done workshops and many reports on carbon capture and storage, cofiring with biomass, increasing efficiency and water use and waste reduction. I understand that governments are reluctant to fund coal research based in London and the world has changed and that's all to the good. And our recent work has particularly been on integrating coal as a flexible base load to work with VRE. But I think everybody should also remember that Asia where most people live still relies on coal and it still provides about 30% of global electricity. Thank you. All good points. Thanks a lot now, PVPS. Yes, thank you. Quick suggestion maybe for the ministerial meeting next year. The other day I took a look at the Today in the Lab Tomorrow in Energy page and it could be a suggestion. I think there are many examples. There are over 50. I was looking for a specific outcome of all the examples cited and most of them are on providing information on having demonstration project going on, et cetera. So it's not really on very tangible outcome on the market and it could be an idea to, because the pages date from 2020. So they're already two, three years old. It could be maybe an idea to come up with Today in the Lab 2.0 where you kind of single out maybe the 10 most important projects that really have come up with tangible results. So back casting a little bit and see what really has come out of them. Thank you. Thank you. We are running really against the time and I know that the EU has raised the flag heat pumping technologies wanted to talk to. And now I'm also seeing, I can't see it, but is it, no, no, what was it? Solar heating and cooling. If you can keep it very short and sweet then we do these three rounds. I don't know if you wanted to talk or not. Yes, yeah. Thank you for the messages, for the ministers. We have a certain worry about the cost of the transition towards the people. It's not only users, but the clean energy transition will impact a lot, a lot the life, the usual life of people. So maybe a message could be that to ask the IEA to look at that, to monitor it and not limit to users but limit to the impact of all the technologies. And secondly, that this care about the impact on the normal life and the people is embedded in the research on technology because we cannot be innocent and not seeing the impact of what we do as the researchers. Thank you. Thank you very much. Did you want to come in? Yes? Yes, please. So I'll try to make it short. So I just would like to comment on the first questions of strategic guidance on energy technology R&D. And so in our vision of the HPT TCP, we have written that hip-hop technologies are the cornerstone for the secure, affordable, high-efficient, clean, and net-zero emission energy system. I guess we have a lot of other cornerstones here around. And for this, I think it's very important, that's my message to the minister that we are aware that we have to develop different technologies for an integrated energy system that is always what you have to think behind to coordinate, to collaborate, and to integrate the energy systems in the future. And it's not a super technology and all the technologies are in the situation where we have to develop all different technologies and all the technologies should have a chance to contribute to this integrated energy system. Thanks. Very good points. Now, Sol Heating and Kunin. Very short question. Is there a timeline for detailed contribution from the TCPs? And what's detailed? So it's an excellent question and I'm not sure that, I mean, the timeline we have the meeting at 13th and 14th of February on the 13th, there will be the Energy Innovation Forum. And I would really like to, I mean, I really hate to cut the discussion now because it's actually going into a very good dynamics, I think. And I'm sure the more you think about it, the more ideas will come up. So please do send us suggestions. I would say, I'm not sure if I'm going out of my way here to say we can still keep the month of November for input, send us written ideas. This is about what you need from the governments, know what you hope that should come out of the ministerial meeting, but it's also very much, believe me very much, how important this is. I said in the beginning when I presented some of our work on the share of technologies not yet in the market to reach net zero missions or the importance of international collaboration. It is very important to be concrete. Where have we driven change? Now, what has, what have we done? Why was that a successful story? I very much liked what Brian said about the it's up and the modeling. Everyone knows models now, but does everyone know where this is coming from? I'm not sure. And I think this is very important to highlight. It's very concrete. It's very detailed. It's going to convince everyone immediately. So it's not about every report we have written. It's not about every contribution that we have made, every meeting that we have held. It's about two, three key examples where you think that your TCP has driven change alone or with others, et cetera. It doesn't matter because you're whatever, if you have a concrete example, you will help the others too. So this is what we are after here. It's not about showcasing everyone and everything, but it's about finding a couple of things that make high level people who have no time to go into every single detail of what we're doing aware this is obviously important. And this was obviously a good thing that has happened. So any example here will be appreciated from that perspective. And now, thank you, Paulo, for your patience and waiting for hiding over to you as the Secretary of the Renewable Energy Technology Working Group and the head of the Renewable Energy Division. Thank you, Timur. And I'm conscious that I am the last obstacle before lunch. Now, still, I will try to, in five minutes, to explain why, in my opinion, the TCP story is not just a positive story, but it's just a key pillar of overall IA activities seen from a renewable perspective. And I want to elaborate this on the past, on the present, and on the future. Now, allow me two words on the past. The TCPs, I have two in minds, are much older than the Renewable Energy Unit. Actually, the Renewable Energy Unit was founded in 1990 to support the Renewable Working Party, which was much older. And it was literally a unit at that time, one person, Rick Sellers. Then more person came, including on my left, Timur, then he left, and I came as a unit head. Today, we are 17, as in Renewable Energy Division, with the Renewable Integration and System Security, it's the double, and Renewables are mainstream everywhere in all the activities of the IA. I tell you very clearly, without your help, we will not be here in this strength on Renewables. And from the past, let me mention two examples. The season of the roadmaps that you also recall very well. I will mention only two. One is the hydropower roadmap with the hydropower TCP and Brazil, a crucial milestone in our relations with Brazil. The second is with PVPS, the two roadmaps on solar, we were the first in the world, saying back in 2014, that solar could become the largest source of electricity in the world at that time. Of course, we were wrong because it went much faster than we had in the roadmap, but still the message was there. In the recent past and in the present, I want to mention just a few other examples that really excuse me for not, I cannot thank you all. Task 25 of WIND, super important in setting up all the system integration work in this agency for variable renewables. PV on manufacturing and sustainability in recent times and now working both with Timur and us, the IA by energy TCP supporting the biofuture platform now getting at the G20 attention level and of course, hydrogen in many circumstances, substantiating both my division and the whole ETP division. I could make a much longer list, I cannot, I don't have the time. Now, for the future, I would like to emphasize three points which were actually touched on some of you. First, the importance of more system orientation and communication and co-collaboration between yourselves. And I emphasize this for two main reasons. The first is because more and more we have energy system issues and not just silos, technology. You are all aware that even if you are very much in love with your own technology, it will not solve the whole thing alone. Second, because when going to speak with the ministers and the national governments, the more you are proposing national coordination at national level and also coordination among the different TCPs. At national level, some of the countries, and this is our call for the governments now, not for the TCPs, make very effective national TCP base which are a phenomenal way to highlight the importance of all TCPs or let's say most of TCPs for the country. This has been proven by experience a very important one and my last point for the future is how important TCPs are in our engagement with non-member countries. Non-member countries can participate in your activities straight on. They don't have the bureaucratic, some of the bureaucratic hampering things that we have the secretariat and some of your TCPs are really phenomenal at least in the field of renewables but I'm sure it is also true to engage with these countries which is where the most of the energy demand growth will be in the future. Now my last point is on the ROOP. First of all, I welcome the third decision to expand the scope of the ROOP and we're looking forward welcoming ISGAN energy storage but also HTS in under our remits. I speak now as a secretary of renewable working party. The chair of the ROOP, Alejandro Moreno is very sensitive on electric security system orientation and here I can only add a personal anecdote to you, HTS. I'm a semiconductor physicist by background but in my laboratory at that time it was the first laboratory in Italy looking at high temperature superconductivity so I will be very happy and curious to listen to you and of course I'm very, how can I say, sensitive on what this can bring us storage means for nuclear fusion later way. Now the next ROOP meeting will be a very special one because it's in India. It's the first time ever we do a ROOP meeting in India and here once to respond to some of your observation please use the working parties as the first level to bring your communication from the technology to the policy sensitivity. The strategic discussion item on this ROOP meeting will be how to triple renewables by 2030. It will also discuss the current struggles of the wind industry. I can only thank all the TCPs for being so active in the ROOP but I stress that the working parties are the first level where you can bring the attention of your, I'm finished Timor, that you can bring the attention of the policy makers through us, through the working parties and through the secretariat. And here I really close, I thank you chair, thank you Timor, thank you Per for giving the word. We have always collaborated but we will continue to collaborate even more strongly across the agency to make sure that the exceptional good work that you all TCPs do is reflected in our analysis and then ultimately through us goes to the attention to the policy makers. Thank you very much. Thank you very much Paolo and pretty much on time to be honest. So well done, slightly, I mean slightly long but it doesn't matter. It's not number checking here. So thanks for this encouraging session for all the feedback. Again, don't hesitate to reach out to us after this session. You have time, not much, but there is time to provide us with input. We really want to make sure that we use the ministerial in a good way. Good way for you, good way for us and good way for our member governments so that people understand the value of international collaboration on RD&D regardless the technology, regardless of the type of area that you're into and that we can build upon hopefully improved and further refined mandate for us as an agency and US, the TCPs moving forward. With that, we're now going to take a family photo. I understand if the photographer is there, I don't know. Yeah, okay, good. And the idea is to all gather on this side of the room and two rows. Obviously the general principle apply, the larger you are, the further back you stand. And we're gonna take a picture here and then we're gonna serve lunch outside the room. And then we will reconvene at two o'clock. So thank you very much. So, if you could come over, that'd be great. Sam, can you use the mic? Because I think, I don't think we can hear you but we understood the concept of squeezing together. That's it, that's all it is about. Connection failed, our off. No phone is connected, connecting. All right, everyone, welcome back. Hope you had a chance to enjoy lunch, have some conversation, make some connections. Let's get started with our afternoon session. Before doing so, I'd like to say I really appreciated all of the participation and the interventions throughout both morning sessions. And despite the unplanned fire drill, I think we had a really successful morning. So thank you for that and let's continue the trend this afternoon. So we have been focusing so far, wait, I'm reading the wrong notes. Now I know what I'm talking about, sorry about that. So as I mentioned earlier, one of the areas that the CERT review identified as key to the way that we operate going forward is about communications. So we're gonna spend the whole afternoon on this topic. I think that it's actually really important that we do so. We're gonna be focusing on both the internal aspect of communications, that is to say between TCPs and within the broader network that we have. And then we will turn and talk about external facing communications. I'm gonna hand it over to Pair who's gonna run us through how the next hour or so is going to work. So Pair, over to you. Thank you very much, Amanda. And good afternoon to all of you as well for me, it's great to see so many of you here today. And of course the ones that have been, have the chance to talk to you over the last nine months as well, link to the CERT review owner. Take the chance also to thank you for all the input. And again, I think this morning session definitely show us as well. There's lots of ideas of how to make steps forward as well to ensure that the work we're doing under the technology collaboration program continues to be very valuable for governments. I mean, there are many aspects and what we will discuss now is indeed the communication aspects which came up this morning as well. And then tomorrow we'll focus on the TCP coordination groups and the request for extension. These are of course linked to each other. But as Amanda said, we wanna focus now on the different aspects linked to internal and external communication. So this in many ways came up as one area where many thought the needed improvement and it comes back to the basic questions that we do hear from now on, every now and then in by CERT delegates asking us to come up with better ideas, ways to communicate the work of the TCP's. Been here for almost five years and this is a question that we have tried to different approaches to by one pagers, by newsletters, by today in the lab to one energy that we mentioned. But here again, we wanna use the next month or so starting of course with today's session to continue brainstorming what can we from the IA Secretary do to improve the communication of the TCP work as an example. But it also comes up in other ways where TCP's both ex-co-members, chairs, secretaries but we'll expect maybe other colleagues involved in the TCP's are asking questions about who is in CERT, what are CERT doing, what are the working parties doing? So again, a good example of a communication gap and this has been addressed by many of the CERT delegates in the interviews as well and this is therefore something that the CERT delegates have decided to address through the CERT review. What we also would, and maybe not so much for this session but it's also linked to some of the things that Paolo Frankl said before lunch it's also important to find better ways to have conversations between CERT and the working parties. Again, the working parties can also be a platform through where the TCP can also reach out and find ways to both coordinate but also communicate their activities. So it takes me to the first session. Wrong button. So the first part indeed, what you have received as all in the material for this meeting is what we call Annex 5, which basically lists what could government officials through CERT and the working party do better on their side to communicate the work of the TCP's? What can the TCP's do themselves and what can a DAI secretary to help? So this is the purpose of session two and then on session three, we focus on breaks practices for external communication to discuss and be inspired by the work done and many thanks to them and the colleagues that have been involved in this project to really look at best practices for communication and thanks for the TCP's that have also been involved in that process to develop that report. Just and I'll come back to this as well but today will be in a way a starting point and that was also to quote some of the colleagues in CERT yesterday when we discussed the review. This is by no far coming to an end. What we've done so far helps us to get started on many of these discussions and that's why we want to start now with the conversation here this afternoon. By seeking come up with the proposal working with all of you to the CERT meeting the first one next year which is in March which a number of proposals that can be approved and adopted by the CERT. By no means that will be the end of discussions on communication but at least we hope that this will help to take a few steps forward. As was said by a colleague yesterday it's always hard to just aim for perfection but at least you move forward to make sure that you seek some concrete improvements both what governments can do, what TCPs can do, what the CERT can do. So just we will soon break up and break up discussions and the clear objective as I said and I will soon run through very quickly the different lists I mentioned but it's again for you both CERT delegates working party representatives, TCPs and IEA secretariat colleagues to review the list of what each one can do and then if there are potential activities missing we are asked the notetakers to note those down but also for the moderators to see are the end of these activities listed that are of particular importance and then we will ask you to make those in bold. So the questions is again what is your view on these proposals, anything missing? What is the priority for governments, TCPs and the secretariat and what can we governments and IEA secretariat further to support TCPs in promoting their work? So that takes me to the first area which we have been coming to we have heard in a number of interventions today so what can CERT and working party delegates do? We have heard this proposal or mentioning as well of the value of the national TCP days as a way to gather the TCPs to discuss both priorities of the government but also have a chance to have cross TCP learnings from delegates, building that national community as well among the TCPs and if it makes sense also of course involving other organizations or representatives from your country that participate in initiatives under let's say Clean Energy Mysterial, Mission Innovation or other platforms but also to identify a national TCP coordinator of course to help with these activities but it could also be a focal point both from us from the secretariat but also from a national research institute of course the CERT delegate is in a way overseeing the TCP participation but often quite the senior person could also be identified as someone who can have more dysfunctional role to also be the go-to person to get with the CERT delegate in the country on any TCP matters to strengthen the home organization or the organization in the countries for the TCP participation and a few other things here that you will see on the list but I'll just in the sake of time you will have those in the files that you have received for the meeting and you can go through them at the meeting in the break as well but just coming to the next pillar or the next area of which is TCPs here again of course there is longstanding activities where TCPs are reporting their activities to the working partisan CERT for the annual written briefing there's no intention here of course to add in the briefing but rather see if we can if this the way the communication is today fulfill the expectations from CERT delegates but also more in general government officials trying to understand what our TCP is doing we also know and understand that the process is quite different from how different working parties are operating this it's also taking some time from now until the March meeting to review how the opportunities for streamlining some of these activities further then coming to and for the breakouts again it would be great to have a discussion about the list here of course when we're talking about what TCP can be doing but I think we in particular want CERT delegates to use this opportunity as well to let the TCPs and us know what kind of information you value in particular coming from the TCPs then when it comes to the CERT the longest list but again we're saying here this is just a start English that doesn't mean that all these activities will be selected in then we're trying to see how we can make things in a way with the resources we have and which are the most useful so of course when we're asking the colleagues around the table what can we further do to help in coordination information sharing between the TCPs we understand this is an important task for us and here from now until the March meeting we'll spend a bit more time on thinking how we can use the delegates hub for regularly updating costs for the substantial air and air exchange I also would like to mention that as was mentioned today in the lab this early today or as I said just now it's a many way for us to find ways to communicate the great work of the TCPs the question is how can find an approach that is sustainable over time that suits the different features of the different TCPs knowing that you are very different in the way you operate what type of activities you have some of course have amazing conferences where you bring together the world expertise around your sectors of technologies either so working very closely in processes linked to policy development, building codes while others of course provide insightful research or as we heard this morning as well from many of you are certainly the go-to places when you have any questions about a certain technology but again what's the best format for us to think about how we can share that as well in our external communication if it's through our website, through newsletters or any other communication and here we also now will be in a brainstorming phase from now on until the March meeting so this is you have all this again in this list in the material that we sent out before the meeting the no-takers or the models of no-takers will also have this template so you're in the breakout groups you will go list by list and again it's very important for us to get your feedback on the list and it's something that's missing or what's important and see it and just I'll come to this one let's see if we so I think that's then coming to the trickiest part which is since we are quite a few we're testing now our facilities to organize breakout groups with around 80 to 100 people we have five breakout groups in total I will go through them slowly so you can try to find your names so this is room one, room two is downstairs and then we'll be in two other rooms but I'll in a moment point to my colleagues who will guide you to the room if you don't find your name as I go through the slides they will also on the doors there's some here in the back too we can try to find which room you should be in but everyone who's done in the first on the left side here you can stay here and you will be with Luca who will moderate and together with my colleague Shane who will take the notes and then for the colleagues here on the right you have Simona who will moderate you will go downstairs just right of the entrance you can follow my colleague Casey Michaels who of course many of you know going down to that room then coming to the other breakout group three so you will go to room 0108 which is also on the ground floor where you arrive by the entrance here it will be Christoph from Germany who will moderate my colleague Joyce there's Christoph Joyce so you can follow her down to that room for group four you will be in room 4104 which is you take the elevator or the stairs maybe the stairs, follow Theo who is here which is on the fourth floor and then to the last group which is one floor down of one floor up sorry and here we have Annemarie from Ireland so we are there who will walk together with Jules who is there and again if you didn't find your name have a quick look at the lists this has been a slightly challenging exercise with late registration so you don't find your name we suggest as well that you stay in this room to join this breakout group sorry and for people online we had intention of having a virtual group as well in Den we see there is relatively few people joining online so that's why we recommend that if those colleagues they can actually stay in this room but otherwise if they can also send a written feedback if it's difficult to follow the discussions that will be taking place in this room all right thank you Per any questions before we break off into our separate groups? everyone understands the assignment wonderful maybe you should say something about when being back please come back please come back and please come back I think we have a break at 3.30 right that's correct so 3.30 there's another coffee break so when you finish the motor moderate you feel like the discussions come to a point where it's time for a break please then move into the coffee break which will again be outside here and then we start here again at 4 o'clock with the session on external communication thank you thank you hello everyone in group one my name is Luca and I ask you to move to this corner so that we're a little bit closer together thanks hello and welcome everybody to this breakout session my name is Luca Costiglione I'm the vice chair of the end-use technologies working party and I'm trying to moderate this session Shane is helping me with taking notes and having all the online users with us as well you want to say something Shane? thank you yeah I think I mean this is the core also of the of the meeting that we're having today that the cert was discussing yesterday is how to enhance the communication in between the TCPs between the TCPs at the working parties and the cert and also between the member countries and this is as we all know a very difficult task and the tedious task resource consuming task so we'll try to find out how this can be enhanced a little bit I think we are already moving to slide number two I think we're already on slide two no problem we're very fast so like what's the the purpose for the objective is to review the cert list of proposals for how involved third TCP and the IA secretariat may prioritize activities over the next years to improve communication of the TCP work and we will respond to these questions as we go through and review the suggested activities of what government officials IA secretariat and TCPs could do we have around 15 minutes to discuss per category so we'll try to keep track of that so to start with what is your view of the proposal is anything essential missing what should be the priority actions for the government's TCPs and the IA secretariat so these are the and the second question is how can governments and the IA secretariat further support TCPs in promoting their work so I think we can start with question one I hope everyone is familiar with the proposal and I'm happy to open the discussion maybe I can just start with a relatively simple question I think I think one part of the proposal is that there should be annual briefings to the cert and I'm just wondering how this is related to the annual briefs that we provide to the renewable energy working party would this be the same format or would something substitute the other thing to just streamline efforts and information templates I think this would be something to maybe clarify in the further process I think it's a good question and also depends on the TCP some TCPs report directly to the cert and other TCPs basically report via working parties and I think it is clear for both the IA secretariat and all the TCPs that we want to have a very efficient and streamlined process I mean it's always about reporting what is the minimum required what is important and so on and I think this is key yes maybe one suggestion would be to use those annual briefings as a source of information so to make the best use of it so distilling key highlights from the TCPs featuring them in a report that could be annual since it's an annual reporting and possibly then which would not be that easy distilling kind of high level messages from a system perspective so really showing how all the TCPs are working on different technologies but then how and somebody from I guess the IA secretariat would have to do that without necessarily having to be democratic and picking up on every TCP and everything but like trying to bring together some key messages that emerge that are like a system level yeah look I think in general the idea is is good if it's one say briefing or report that each TCP has to be has to made so and then if you want to use that for both the end-use working party the secretariat and the cert then you might in the template want indeed to distinguish a bit I think the high level information is more for the cert and the details may be more for the secretariat and the end-use working party and I guess it would be less of a burden for the secretariat if the template and the kind of instructions would be as clear as possible because otherwise I indeed think that those reports will contain a lot of information and that you can extract a lot of things out of it but that also will cost resources so the much say pre-prepared and with the template the more that is the more easier it's also for the secretariat to process and to give the right information to the right level I mean I think templates are of course already in place but I mean I think what you suggest is also to have a target group oriented or structured report so you have like a high level policy brief basically where with the key highlights and then you have all the administrative information about the TCP's plus maybe in addition you have a level where you want to communicate also to other TCP's yes but please in the same report so that not a TCP has to make a report for the cert and a second for the secretariat and a third for other TCP's and then the template will guide TCP's okay these headlines they will be cut out for the cert so please only headlines and so for very I think that need not be too detailed but some guidance on the on the levels and where the information goes to will have but please one report not free I can say confidently on behalf of cert that we would want there to be a consolidated that reporting structure yes I think the in parallel with the TCP's providing an annual report of activities which is kind of I presume we're talking about some summary in short it'd be similarly useful to get something from the working parties and certs that can be shared with the TCP's because I'm conscious that the information flow and it comes true in some of the feedback the information flow is seen as one way and I think the TCP's would probably engage better with certs and the working parties if they had a better understanding of what their role is what they do and again I'm not talking about additional work because I presume there's some kind of reporting that's been done anyway by the working parties and cert but some summary version of that that can be shared because I think these and it builds on what's been said these reports can be used for multiple purposes because it also is a way of course then of showing the value of the IEA work and the cert, the TCP's etc so it can be used for different dissemination means but certainly I think a version of a summary that's made available to the TCP's would just help in terms of this two-way flow information, thanks Yes, I think that's a very valuable remark because I mean we ask about how to align what is being done in the TCP's with priority of member countries and the CE and certs and this is difficult to achieve if you don't have this kind of bi-directional information flow and yes I mean maybe we hear some other cert delegates what they think about that Try again Actually just to bring a slightly different perspective because I'm not as familiar on some of the internal communication things but I think one of the priorities that we could be working towards is building the profile of the work of the cert outside the direct kind of research areas and outside of this kind of group of people but also wanting to recognize that the proposals are great and we think all of these things will certainly help us on our way that they will take resourcing so I think it seems really important that we work out how to do this with the least impact on the people power but then also work out which parts of them are really going to need some dedicated funding towards as well just to consider that and just with my hat on that works in mission innovation and the clean energy ministerial as well maybe thinking about a way of being more structured in how TCP's meet and interact with those missions and initiatives that are also doing work either it be a regular part of your meetings or making sure that like if you're not already attending the Sam and my ministerials each year that you do because it's that really great convening moment that's just a couple of thoughts on the external side Maybe it's a little controversial but I was thinking I was struck this morning by the fact because we have a direct exchange with the third delegate it's the first time and I was struck by the fact that some day some third delegate are not very aware of what is inside the TCP what is the work and I was thinking about the structure to have three layers working party cert and no TCP working party on cert and I think there is some drawbacks because the fact that we have an intermediate layer is something very heavy and I don't know if one solution could be that the delegate in the working party will be the same as the cert because in this case the knowledge is easy to share but generally speaking I don't know for countries but for France it's different people they are not very motivated for that and the result is that there is no transmission of information towards the cert so I speak about internal communication and if you add the fact that we have many external initiatives like you say because in the right-of-hand field we have 20 initiatives more than 20 and the fact that it's different people in the mission innovation in the SAM in the IPHE etc at the end the information is not going well through this different so at least we need to have at the high-year level a very simple structure I think because we have too much things outside and of course I will speak later on the link between TCP and mission innovation because mission innovation is more focused on this but it's another topic but I just wonder how we can improve this structure of course we can think about why we need a working party maybe we put on the table but okay I think it's one thing we have to think about because for me it's a harder I think it's an important comment because I mean of course the structure with the levels of TCP working parties and the idea of the working parties is to facilitate the work of cert and to help and support and even like support the communication but it's true what you say like in particular ideally it could be that it's the same delegates it's not the case for my country either and it's difficult to have delegates for all the working parties and motivate them and then it turns out that it actually turns into a bottleneck of information flow instead of facilitating the information flow sorry I forgot something and just another drawback is that you have some silos renewable etc and I know for hydrogen I speak this morning that I am not only renewable and so to have only one body we'll facilitate the because we can speak about with all TCP and to the cert also it's another drawback sure so I'm thanks for that I think those that's really valuable and I think you've probably surfaced a lot of the things that pair and the task force heard in the course of doing the interviews and the research for the review certainly on the on the working parties I think that's that's something that has been heard very clearly is wanting to make it less of sort of an administrative layer and make it something more value add so I think as a first step some of the principles that sort adopted yesterday I think we are hopeful that they will help they're not going to fix everything on the issue of common reps I think it's going to depend on national governments in the way that they are structured certainly I know it would be very difficult to have one person sort of in my office for example who's attending cert and all of the working party meetings you know being in Canada and we're not an international office we are the office that coordinates R&D for energy in Canada so trying to do all of that with one person would probably actually lead to the opposite of what you're hoping to get but I think that it does depend on national structures and that might work well for some versus others but I think that there might be more structural or process-based I know you're talking to get away from process so I don't mean this in a bad way but more practices that we can adopt that will help to address some of these things but I think just hearing about how they are issues is super helpful on the broader international initiatives all I can say is I know that your area in particular has suffered I think it's something we all of us who have worked in the international space have lamented I think at various times the emergence of new initiatives sometimes seemingly disconnected or not as connected as they could be to other things I think that's why at least with some of the main initiatives that are going on I mean Peta mentioned innovation and clean energy ministerial I think there are probably a couple of others that often come up in this context but I think those of us involved in this space if we can just keep trying to make those connections and keep trying to explain why it's necessary to be complimentary I mean I know I'm preaching to the choir Paul but for what it's worth those are my thoughts thank you well for my means thanks for the input and also a little bit in the sake of time I would already direct to the second question which is also very much related to that like how can governments and the secretariat support the TCP's in promoting their work and it's not just promoting their work but probably communication in general and exactly making TCP's inform them about other initiatives and things that are going on what are your expectations there thanks two reflections on this building on things that have have come up first reflection is I think it's very positive to see the statements around particularly mission innovation clean energy ministerial I do remember I don't know if it was one of the early TCP gatherings but I mentioned work we were doing on one of the clean energy ministerial initiatives and I was asked why we weren't doing more engagement with other TCP's which was a valid question but it kind of showed an insider perspective that seems to have have moved on but I do think I mean we do support one of the clean energy ministerial initiatives on long-term energy scenarios but it's probably a lesser known part of what we do so I do think this is where the secretariat could help in terms of mapping the because I'm certainly not aware of the various TCP engagements with the different mission innovation and clean energy ministerial initiative so I think that mapping would be a would be a suggestion the second point relates to um this question of of um this this national um kind of harm not harmonization but communication flows or synergies across what what we're doing and I think the first proposed thing this identification of a national TCP network coordinator I presume it's in each country can help to to um at least provide some sense of coherence or at least an information gathering perspective on that in terms of again to have a sense so the TCP's and cert and the working groups have one point of contact in countries if that's what the purpose of that person is have one point of contact where they can actually find out about the different threads of a country or working party engagement with with the TCP's and finally the there's another it's just a small point on one of the proposals that says organize TCP national days bringing together all the national TCP representatives which is great idea we had one in Ireland in 2018 it was very useful but that was organized there's no time frame given is it you know I think it would be improved by having a kind of a target time frame is it annual is it every two years because effectively we've done one so we've organized that we've ticked that box but it was in 2018 we could do with another one and so just suggest a time frame be put on that recommendation thank you yeah just a couple of sorts from here too one is about reporting and I used to read a lot of reports from EU funded projects and and this is not always fun so it's the reports are not making the trick themselves when they are too short they are not necessarily interesting and when they are too long then it's difficult to read them and catching kind of the the essence from those so so you know I have I'm double hearted about this there's more reporting especially knowing that some of the TCP's do struggle with the administration side of the of running the TCP's TCP's require a lot of administration I attended a few weeks ago the ISGUN the X-committing I mean terrible in the sense it was three days of admin talk basically we we not always do you know even in the even with commission standard it's it's it's a lot of budget administration and the communication and then interestingly communication has been one of the most controversial thing that it is just understaffed people there is one person who was hired to do that and he was overloaded and and exhausted and and a merge of breakdown basically so it's it's not it is not so so easy to to sow this issue I would I wanted to play and kind of take up Paolo Frunkel's point from from the previous session and when he said that use the working parties invited the TCP's use the working parties as your channel as your gateway to to to to put forward your findings and your messages towards dessert because my experience with the cert is that you know the profile of the delegates says very a lot and and you know the work coming from the TCP's it's it's very technical it's very sector based and the delegates won't be able to reflect that variety of topics that that do come from the direction of the TCP's they won't appreciate they may appreciate those their heart and their experience closer to and they will ignore the rest so that the the working parties are quite well placed if they work well to to kind of to articulate the information coming from the TCP's and and formulate them in a way that is relevant for the for the cert and and maybe a last point that relates also to the to the second part to the second question is that if the IE could kind of track the input the references the contributions coming from the TCP's used in the IE products and reports and because I understand that they are being used the IE desk officers are in contact with the with the TCP's they do pick up some of the literature that that the TCP's produce but if that could be tracked if that could be also reported and follow up towards the cert that would be kind of a demonstration because what what we very often in the ministries I guess and that the governments we do read the IE reports because you have the IE's stem there it's kind of a quality assurance but if we can see that what is the TCP contribution to those that but I think I get great value thanks maybe one last comment yes first maybe a general remark on the guidelines and it was triggered by the remark of my neighbour that say organized national TCP's days is not not so specified I would be very cautious with further specifying these guidelines because then you come into a kind of legal text and I don't think this is meant to be a legal text but a guideline and a stimulus for all the say the adversaries to take action what you can do of course is monitoring how these guidelines have been played out and if you then see that in in three years time say all TCP's have maybe zero because they did it already in 2018 or organized one TCP day that might then be a reason for for further action but as a start don't try to make a legal document out of this that I think will work counterproductive and the second point is the structure I indeed think also that the working parties can be very useful but then especially in their administrative function and that is reporting and we will come to that tomorrow the review process that kind of thing and therefore it's of course good that working parties are consist of TCP's with more or less the same topic but if we try to add a kind of cross cutting function to the to the working parties and that has been tried I think a bit in the past and then then the trouble begins because several TCP's will then be in several working parties and it will get confused and therefore I like very much as said the coordination group and especially the new one which is limited in time focused on indeed the cross cutting topic and there I think the the bulk of the content or the focus of the content should be and there of course please no administrative stuff thank you very much for for these remarks I think related to the to the TCP networking days countries I think this is very country specific some countries are engaged in a lot of TCP's order or only in a few some have more resources some have less so I also think it doesn't make sense to to specify whether this has to happen on an annual basis or a different period and I think it is important to comment that that you made that the role of the working party is also to translate elevate and condense the output of the TCP's but it's not an easy task yeah maybe one last comment thank you I thought with the sort of introduction of the new TCP coordination groups then couldn't they serve some of the role of the working parties because if you've got both those organizations then it seems to me that's quite a lot of work and another bit of bureaucracy and my other query was about the national TCP sort of networks and days because you know we're all international organizations so I wasn't quite sure what purpose they would serve I mean this is great all meeting together like this but I'm not sure what the value would be especially as we're based in the UK and the UK government hasn't been a member of our TCP for years so I'll be perhaps we're unique in that setup but I'm not sure what the value would be of this national layer thank you thanks I'm happy to share what I think the value is both as a cert member and as a representative of a national government we've done one so far in Canada we intend to do more we're members of I think maybe 24 TCP's primarily government representatives but not exclusively and I think it is valuable as certainly as a cert member but in our other undertakings with the IEA and other colleagues internationally to understand sort of the full range of work that is happening internationally where there is collaboration so essentially what it is is the the representatives of so in our case obviously Canadian representatives of all of the TCP's that we're members of come together we did it virtually because it was during the pandemic but I know other countries have done it in person as well so you come together sort of for however long you think is needed which is probably dictated by how many TCP's you are a member of perhaps and you know we we developed a program that allowed for connections between the TCP's so where there might be areas of work that are are cross cutting or related but they maybe didn't know that each other was were doing work in this space so to connect on that level also helpful sort of as the coordinating person or office responsible for all of the TCP's to understand the range of work so that when I come to a cert meeting or I go to other meetings internationally I understand sort of where we are active and then I think that the other piece is just to it helps orient around priorities so I mean I'm not going to tell TCP's what to do or not do but it gives me a sense of are we active internationally in the R&D space in the areas where we think we need to be in terms of like other gaps for example are we hitting all of the priorities something has emerged is there is there already an existing avenue we've already talked about all of the initiatives or the initiatives that tend to pop up from time to time centered around sometimes ministerial meetings or otherwise it's useful to be able to know that these things exist to say hey you know this already exists let's make sure we're not duplicating or what I like to do a lot of the time here's my secret is sometimes we'll get pushed to put things in an international agreement I often point back to multilateral mechanisms like MI like the TCP's like SAM where I know that there's a focused work plan in a particular area it's just it's really really useful to be able to do that to avoid new things popping up so hope that helps that's just a Canadian perspective yeah sorry can I come back I just misunderstood I thought you meant all the TCP's that were based in a particular country getting together yeah thank you well I think it depends on the way how it is organized but I mean we also organized in Switzerland we also organized those national TCP days and for instance we also invited a representative from the IEA to inform us about high-level initiatives that are going on and so on I think that's the the exact purpose to coordinate and enhance the communication again I think we have to move to the next slide and so there are some I mean we already discussed this now to a large degree so these are proposed activities of certain working party delegates the I think the identification of a national TCP network coordinator I think for a lot of countries is already quite big task and then the national days regularly assessing national participation in TCP's and alignment with national priorities sharing information and best practices and TCP participation administration facilitating communication between national representatives of international platforms in clean energy including the TCP's MI and SEM that just was mentioned then then of course other suggestions from the group I give you some time to reflect on this maybe a couple of very concrete suggestions to translate this into into specific actions this issue of sharing information and best practices on TCP participation administration I think if back to back with for instance group meetings there was a half day booked for TCP's to exchange information maybe with the IA facilitating a little bit like clusters of TCP's they have more synergies would make I think would increase the value of participating in those meetings for chairs and secretaries and whatever whoever is representing there the TCP and then maybe a simple suggestion if there are TCP national days organized if the SEM and MI share plus focal points points of contact could be involved I think there would be idea so that there is really a complete picture since it's all IA's facilitated they say activities then you really have a complete picture of what's going on and possible synergies just one reflection to add to what Amanda said about the value of these TCP national days the other thing I found was useful in our case was that it it highlighted the value of the investment nationally in TCP activities because it showcased some of the outputs and impacts in terms of other suggestions I've mentioned already this question of whether it be useful for how to have a cert and or working party briefing reports annual reports to TCP's and another one it reflects on something I mentioned earlier and it's probably here but I'm not sure how to articulate it properly but I think there is a broader usefulness in government officials in particular to build or develop mechanisms for absorptive capacity for increasing their absorptive capacity for what's coming from the the kind of analytical community or in this case from TCP's that's a very broad thing to say so you know in terms of breaking it down into suggestions well maybe as a broad thing I think it's something that might be useful for cert to reflect on but in terms of some of the specifics we heard earlier about the TCP secondment to the IEA but equally you can have government officials I don't know if that would work government officials being opening up that opportunity for a secondment in other directions you know government officials working on a particular task or a particular area of policy to have a mechanism where they can directly engage and kind of absorb that from a TCP as I'm not sure of the structure for that but secondment is possibly the wrong word but some way of that bridging I suppose to explore better ways of bridging between TCP's and the working party delegates and cert and it's really to try and increase this absorptive capacity of the policy system to be able to draw on the analysis that the TCP's are generating and make use of it thank you any other comments or do you see anything particularly missing wonder if there should be some feedback on the stuff that's going to and fro because they're still I can't see anywhere where it actually says okay we provide this they provide that but there's nothing that I can see which there's an assessment by the recipient of whether that actually was what they wanted whether it worked and whether there's some subsequent refinement of that otherwise we could chug on with the same thing until we meet again say in the next two, three, four years and then discuss like this and make a change but it could be a bit more responsive than that maybe more feedback yeah yeah I think that's a really good suggestion I think these days it's you know everything takes time nothing is easy but it's relatively easy to do a survey periodically just in terms of exactly these things is it working is it what we need do you need more of this less of this any other suggestions I think that's a fantastic idea so thank you I mean there's one formal as well it's of course when you have to request for extension then you typically get an extensive feedback but I guess it would be helpful to have this also on a more regular basis and in a different way not just that the whole program is is X I mean but you just get specific feedback on results actually indeed that I don't think that these were key recommendations with regard to the network coordinator and DCB national days because for communicating from TCP is to to policy level is actually the interpersonal relations are key from that point of view and and as long as there is no contact between the third delegate or the working party delegate and the TCP then it's very difficult and once this is contact is there and the whole community knows that who is who and who can expect what from from those persons then it it becomes more more feasible and we actually just last week we organized the TCP meeting with all the commission colleagues involved in in TCP's and it created some anxiety at the beginning because I mean some of the TCP representative so that what are these guys wanting from us they say should they never talk to us why is this invitation now but in the end it was a good dynamic there and and and then you know through this because because you don't within the same country or organization that that's that the trust is there that you are on the same side let's say that the background knowledge is is also there that what is needed in in that organization or government so you can you can tailor the information that's coming from the TCP for the needs of the specific government so this interpersonal relations I think in both regard key and those frameworks cannot cannot have to do can I ask you then one thing so you know like in all these committees with the TCP's chairs are changing on a quite regular basis delegates are changing on a quite regular basis so how do you think are there ways to improve this kind of interpersonal relations and many times also I think this probably worked for the IEA and the Secretariat to really have just an organic RAM so people know who is in charge of what at a certain time and that you have points of contact yeah I mean that that's a fair question I mean it depends we do have colleagues who are involved for decade long in the same TCP so that also exists and and what on the other hand I recognize that especially in my unit in the in the PVSP TCP I know that DG energy colleagues have been changing all the time basically and and yeah these are framework conditions that you that you can't do much about it actually because because that's just the nature of public administration and people moving on if there is not anything else then let's move on to but excuse me just to add but exactly from that point of view these structures can help because if you organize those meetings regularly then you will be able to you know keep up with those personal changes if you don't organize those then you keep up losing those contacts okay so now we come to the activities proposed for the IEI secretariat so prepare briefing material about the TCP network the role of certs it's working parties and TCPs update the delegates hub regularly with information improve the visibility of TCPs on the IEI website communicate the success stories and results of the TCP strong on past experiences newsletters one pagers today in the lab tomorrow in energy organize webinars relevant to such as the management of the TCPs to learn from each other organize the TCP universal meeting every two years at a minimum other suggestions from you so that's quite a bit of activities yes maybe as a general point better few and have continuity then a lot of these and having them say two newsletters and then think well this might not be a good idea and drop it and go to something else because I can remember that there were at some point in time newsletters but they suddenly disappeared and picking up on on the foregoing discussions it is I think a characteristic of international organizations that the cycle and the time to get these interpersonal relationships is much longer than in a national or situation or in an organization so the communication should be tuned to that longer cycle and not and not say to a hit and run stuff so that's yeah that may be not so easy but yeah this should be certainly on a say five-year plan basis and then choose what you want to do and then stick to that for a number of years so that people can get used to it and and value it maybe maybe on the same point I think the IEA had a long time the open energy bureau at home which has disappeared I don't know exactly why but I think that seemed to me like one communication channel that was quite helpful to communicate also TCP results we have usually advertised our conference and I agree that having newsletters can be also and quite additional effort but something like that for the whole for the whole IEA shouldn't be too much and I think it's really missing a bit I don't know why it disappeared probably just a whiskers question but I would propose maybe to think about starting again with it and there was a but there was a kind of newsletter the so-called open energy bureau which was sent out I don't know maybe every month or so and there were news from IEA results and TCP results and so on so so that will be your expectation that the IEA secretariat provides a newsletter with IEA activities plus also information about selected TCP outputs like in I think this is also key to have like one newsletter I mean every TCP typically has a newsletter but you do not want to as a third member probably do not want to subscribe to 50 newsletters and this is really helpful I think I'm trying to think of I see a lot of it would be helpful to understand even more I think like what the what would be helpful to you to have in the newsletters so because I've heard a few like I have a few different ideas but I also don't want to read my interpretation into what you're saying so I think there's obviously one objective I assume would be to share information and news about TCPs with other TCPs but also with cert and the secretariat I would assume a second objective or category of useful info would be sharing news from the IEA secretariat and cert as has been said out with TCPs and then maybe there's I'm guessing there might be a third category of information which might be like useful other useful things that are happening that are handy for the community to know is that I don't want to go too far off and then my the related point I had is I know there is a delegate tub that the IEA runs that all TCPs have access to for their TCP documents I know as cert members we have access to it for our meeting documents and relevant information I think we can look at some TCP info as well I wonder if there's a way of better leveraging that delegate tub to make sure that there is the right access and the right information sort of pairings to maybe reduce the need of preparing sort of a formal newsletter not that it couldn't be there but I think if you're in boxes anything like mine sometimes things get lost in there if emails are coming in with newsletters from different places and it might be handy just to know that once a month this is going to be updated with this type of information and I can go there at any point in time and see what the most current is just a thought maybe what is missing is social media so a newsletter can be hard to sustain over time and experience shows that there was a case in the past while for instance of course not for all TCP outputs but for major reports that are in line with IEA's priorities if they could be picked up by the IEA and social media of course I would make more justice to those reports and have the feeling sometimes we've been in the IEA by NGTCP thinking about how we make justice to this incredible wealth of information that we produce and we don't have the means to do that effectively in this very complicated world where it's with a lot of voices and a lot of inputs that we get from everywhere and I think it's a problem that all TCPs face so but maybe all together and with the IEA help if the website is improved and if we have more of a systematic way of as I mentioned before maybe if we because I think we talked a lot about how to improve communication to the working parties and to cert but the world out there doesn't probably even know what the cert and the working parties are it's a very internal communication which is key and fundamental but if we want to I think make justice to everything that we do here we need to make sure that this technical information is communicated and is mainstreaming to the debate then somebody has to pick it up and our own websites don't have the capacity to sustain that and to have that impact so if IEA can pick up things and when a report on a certain topic is produced if they can also make reference to other relevant TCP reports that have been produced recently of course anything that can be done in that direction would be a great help Thank you very much I think this is a very important comment but of course it also it is a political issue because like a report of TCP is not necessarily the opinion of the IEA and so you cannot just use the IEA channels to promote the TCP work but I guess it's also within the scope of the work of the CERT and the working parties to figure out how this can be improved and I think what you said I think probably sometimes it's best to have both of two worlds to have a newsletter but have that information also on the delegate top Maybe just sometimes newsletters today are basically just a summary of headlines and links and then you can click and go to the news and I don't think that really is a lot of work I would suspect that nowadays you might be even able to do it with a little bit of artificial intelligence and I think then it could be a good means of getting informed when there is something new on the delegates up otherwise I would have to go there and simply this activity also sometimes get lost so it could be an easy way to maybe improve the communication I was too fast Yeah, no, no, no, I don't do that There is an additional breakout session about external communication and I think this is a big thing and but you need a coherent strategy it's really a coherent strategy that is required Do you see any additional sort of activities that the IA secret secretariat could engage in to support facilitate the work? Yeah, thank you It's actually not an additional one I'm just looking in the slides I would like to stress on the fourth point here about the success stories of TCP's and then the one pagers because I represent a ministry here and Dufani is quite a new member in IA like two years or so and we're getting to know what TCP is about what they're doing in your work and there's so much information about so much TCP and especially for those ones which had decades-long work and sometimes it's really hard for me to transmit what TCP is about to my colleagues even rather to my ministry because he always gave this policy impact question so what's the policy impact of technology? What's the policy impact of in this case TCP? So sometimes it's hard so I think that's such a format it could work and maybe it's an expectation both from the secretariat and TCP's to think about in addition what you achieve and what results artists and update on one pager or what you're working with and what you have achieved we have an example in another field we have a cooperation with Nordic Energy Research the Nordic Council of Ministers Agency for Funding Energy and we collectively fund energy-related R&D studies so in the last two years they were producing excellent results but the communication part was really really difficult but then we started asking them that in addition to their full reports of findings and one pager is produced and I think it worked it's much easier to transmit this to our political management so that's our results and why is it important? So then we had an answer so maybe it could work here as well Thank you Maybe in line with that and to connect with the foregoing point where there was we talked about reporting and the different levels if you have a good basis of reporting then that can be a source a good source for a newsletter and then as somebody said then of course you need to put resources into it and I very much doubt whether I would trust AI to do that but maybe with the help but then at least you have a kind of strong and regular basis where you can also which you can say disseminate in different formats and the delegate hub is then one but there it's more like an archive and passive the newsletter is more active and maybe there are other and if you have the good basis then it's more easy to disseminate that in different formats Thank you just one comment so organizing webinars would be very useful but not only for the management of the TCP and the current TCP participants but also for potential participants in Hungary we are not active in TCP I know only one participant but these webinars would be very useful for them to gain information from the first hand and to know good practice so I think it would be very useful Thank you I mean you're referring to webinars to reach out to potential new member countries and inform them about TCP work the TCP work Yeah Yes Just a very minor comment regarding the TCP universal meeting every three years is fine but I wouldn't say this as a minimum I would not propose to have it more frequently Thanks I think everybody agrees I guess we move on to the next slide so that we still have a little bit of time for those things so now we're coming to the work of the TCPs I mean of course provide an annual written briefing provide status updates on the request of CERT or a working party provide inputs to the IAEA secretariat's activities such as newsletters and one-pagers I mean this is also related to what we just discussed before such communication channels do not work if they're not feeded with input then invite and involving CERT or working party delegates as well as IAEA desk officers in XCO meetings establish communication with initiatives under the other international platforms like SAM or the ministerials and other suggestions again One suggestion would be to include automatically include the TCPs in the peer review of reports related to that technology I think as of now it's done on an individual basis it's up to the analyst or to the author of the report to liaise with relevant TCPs but I'm aware occasionally which that person was not even aware necessarily of the existence of the TCP or the work that the TCP was carrying out so I think having that as a systematic thing would allow the TCPs not necessarily to get the recognition of the work but to have the work mainstream into the main IAEA reports I'm just reflecting on the fourth bullet point there that invite and involving CERT and working party delegates as well as the desk so the desk officers are already invited to XCO meetings I suspect that the CERT and we working party delegates if they attended a full XCO meeting they it's a big ask so I wasn't sure what was and maybe it's either refining or reflecting on it because it would be useful maybe to invite a CERT or working party delegates to a specific part of the XCO meeting if there's something of use that can be exchanged I suppose because we have the mechanisms where where the TCPs report and attend and report to working party and CERT meetings so it is useful I think to have that flow in the other direction but I think it would be worth thinking about how to do it in a way that's actually useful for both and not painful for both thanks yes I think this is a good comment I think no CERT member or active in the working party can take part in a lot of XCOs at the same time but for instance I took part in an HEV XCO activity which was particularly focused on just the the next strategic work plan so where you really discuss the strategy of and what's going to happen next I think such kind of meetings there may make sense but of course not when you go through all the XCO tasks and through the administration just to pick up on that I agree with you Brian and I'm guessing that that was not the intent but I think it's just in crafting agendas for example think through other areas where either the IEA desk officer or CERT or working party delegates where either it would be useful for you for one of those people to attend and hear something or if it would be useful for you to have a report out on anything that had happened whether at CERT or in the IEA secretariat or what have you I think it's more just keep that in mind Yeah I think also here there is a differentiation between I think it's always useful and in 4E we have that as a kind of default agenda item to get a report from the desk officer and we also always like the desk officer to be present whereas indeed CERT and working party delegates that would be I guess death by attending EXCO meetings so that indeed would need to be reserved for more the strategic issues so that would be good to differentiate further first three bullets again I think these are all of these I think is or could be fine if it's clear structured and there is a clear say expectation management towards the TCP what can be expected at what time so the annual written briefing I think that is very clear on the positive side every TCP knows it's also known when it comes but when I read a possible status updates or request of the CERT or a working party when do they come and what is the response time that you that you then expect and there it could become cumbersome and such the same as input to the secretariat's activities and that's why in the foregoing slide I pleaded for having a stable good basis where others could find the information which is both I think efficient for TCP's and for the secretariat and of course if there's good relationship which I hope there is between the desk officer and the TCP then of course the desk officer can always send an email or phone or we need information on blah blah blah and that's yeah but please with the first three bullets try to make that yeah as structured and predictable as possible and also the say the last one above other suggestions this could be a very broad and resource intensive task and that is also where TCP's are a bit shy of and backing if they are expected from their budget to do all of these communications because that can be very resource intensive plus I guess many times for this particular task it would be helpful to have support to establish the connection to the initiatives I think with the provision of reports and briefings like the first three bullets I think the bullets number one and two are of course that's sort of mandatory what you have to do but I think the bullet number three is also the chance to use the IEA channel to communicate but I guess it could be facilitated in the way that the secretariat informs that newsletters are planned other kind of information material if you would like to contribute information for that so that could be facilitated yeah thanks so I think what I heard is you're busy I know the IEA secretariat is also busy and so it's a plea to make the format of the request for information as clear and as succinct as possible and I just wanted to reiterate I can't remember who was making the point this morning but I know we talked a little bit about you know the point of some of this is to help us and help the IEA secretariat help TCP's in terms of communicating messages out and up including to ministers and so I think it's a chance to put in your own words especially that third bullet what are the really sort of the concrete headline message that you would want to get across because I think you don't want to leave that in somebody else's hands like if I'm the TCP I want to make sure that I'm in there crafting that message if I'm writing something about my office I want to be the last word or the last person who looks at it and make sure that it's completely capturing what I intend and so I just wanted to say I completely support the idea between or of being as clear and as helpful as possible in the way that we're asking for the information but I just wanted to maybe underline that the objective here is is to help spread the message of the TCP's and to help TCP's so I think as we heard this morning I think ultimately the more clear the message can be you know the more it resonates with people like ministers the better the chance that that at some point translates into into you know things like additional funding a short comment on that exactly what you said that you want to be the last person that sees the message that you sent that can be an issue because in an Exco if that is really and I don't know how formal other TCP's are but if that is practiced then it will take a long time before any message is formally issued so that can be a problem and in practice we had such a thing with the joint TCP work which there were say a number of work of the TCP combined in one IEA report and I can remember that there was I think it took a couple of weeks and with a lot of fine-tuning because before every TCP had officially agreed to say a half-page summary and so there and there maybe it could be good to split things that TCP's may input something to the to the secretariat but it's the secretariat's responsibility to reformulate maybe and send it out and also clear that that is then the IEA's responsibility and not the TCP's and that I think that will speed up things because otherwise yeah that you might need to wait half a year before you get anything out to but try to be quickly have to wrap up and I just wanted to to clarify like I said that I work in a bureaucracy I understand that I was talking about the third bullet which I understand to be providing input so you're providing like a paragraph or a blurb or a page or something on your stuff over so that's what I was talking about that input thanks so I think we just quickly go to the last slide and that that that would address mostly now search delegates country representatives so what what you would consider the highest value in reports on TCP activities like in the annual briefings well what is it what do you find really important or what is missing I just I think from a the certain the working party delegates the important information is more about the maybe the research outcomes and the next steps as much as the kind of list of reports or the in-depth kind of analysis which is great for the technical community to read but yeah we need you to spoon feed us sometimes and also it'd be great to know about who contributed to the project I think part of some of the cert delegates that we're spoken to were all on the same journey with TCPs and trying to work out who from our own countries that you're working with engaging with and so it's actually really useful to say here's a report and then also to know kind of some of the specific inputs to that so we get a better understanding of the landscape but the first part's the more important one in terms of what's what's the outcomes and next steps from this this research you've yeah we now understand this so what so you would like to have a policy brief and the highlights or a hybrid or something that's maybe says these are the things that maybe as policy people you should you should consider or the implication of this from a technical perspective is you know where this could go from here sure I was a fan to the second point interesting like this like the TCP network is so large there's so many tasks so many operators so many participants that I think for a lot of countries they they simply don't have to overview they don't even know what kind of institutions in their country are active in in in the TCP's and in what way and yeah I mean this is of course also additional work for the TCP's to somehow summarize that in an annual report any other comments here and then I think we can all go and coffee yes yes I have one comment maybe also like what assumptions are underlying the report I think would also be quite valuable like what is the report based on like what is the yeah basically the assumptions if that's clear I mean I think that's that that's quite specific I mean when you make scenario modeling then of course you have a lot of assumptions when you report technical experiments it's it's probably less but I mean like the I think that's a problem the nature of an annual report it's not a scientific paper so it's it's already condensed but it's not the brief so you have to find the right format last comment so briefly I think on the one hand there is value in knowing the international cooperation that's going on so I think someone has already eluded to that that just recording at that government level that what are those multilateral engagements that anyone is involved in and that it's working and it's meaningful I think that's one valuable information then the second is is directing I mean the the information and reports coming from the tcps are not always relevant for the third delegate but the third delegate must find the people his colleagues in the relevant units and and divisions for whom it is relevant and and for those colleagues it can be even detailed information because that's their job and they want to have detailed well-founded information the you know the slug words the the the headlines are not enough for police making for those who are drawing up legislation regulation whatever they want to have the substantive part of the information and then maybe the last point it relates to the previous slides that just one good example about from the is gone tcp about links to other international platforms that in is gone we have kind of a table with liaison liaison officers for the various other international platforms and though usually those are colleagues who are involved in those other activities too so we can use those channels kind of actively to to align messages and activities i think that's a that's a good practice thank you very much i i think that's quite a few good suggestions and i mean there's always a room for improvement and i think it also reflects what you said at the very beginning that reports and briefings you should always address specific target groups so have it both have have like a short highlights policy brief and then also have in-depth information if the expert then really wants to go into the detail okay so if somebody still has a very important comments they would like to make then i leave the floor open and otherwise i think we can start with the coffee break if i'm not mistaken thank you okay everyone i think we'll get underway all right welcome back hope you had a chance to grab a coffee maybe a cookie have some good conversation during the break i hope i hope that the first session of the afternoon was useful as you know that one focused on the internal side of communications within the tcp certain network but we're going to focus for the balance of the afternoon on external communications i'm going to hand it over to paul our french cert delegate and also the representative from bolt of attack power systems at the end of the day to run us through the next session thank you mander so now that everyone got warmed up with workshops on internal communication we're we're now looking at external communication so i prepared some introductory remarks you're no less than than 39 tcps and you're all a bit different working on providing technologies and policy recommendations so important in the fight against the climate change so each of your tcps decide within your excos with some guidance by the oversight structure on what should be worked on as a priority this afternoon is about better delivering better communicating on the results of your work it's on improving the impact of communication making sure that what you're all been working on so hard lends well with the intended audiences so i was very happy to learn during the coffee breaks that because we send a big package of slides as homework so to speak and some of you have actually read through 106 pages so this afternoon there will be a lighter version that will be will be presented so your 39 tcps and you're all a bit different like i said some of you have really pinpointed your offering for instance to the scientific community and but most of you i think have broader target groups which required requires sending different messages to different groups of people so i represent the difference agency for ecological transition at them and we're involved in many tcps but with the ministry we were having a hard time getting a good overview of its outcomes and i guess that we're not the only one so the technical reports that are being produced are often a bit difficult to access they're quite scientific for one and the websites of some of the tcps are sometimes a bit outdated and that's just to name some of the hurdles i think that the people that are interesting by work may come across so this this is not helping getting the tcps and their results known also not known to to friends stakeholders and it also makes it hard from from my perspective as an agency representative to to should use friends experts to participate in the works of your your tcps so is it fair to compare a typical tcp with a factory a factory that's producing knowledge but only has a small sales department so lots of production but few resources spent on on selling what you have been producing of course we're talking seriously technology we're not talking about a cookie factory but could your knowledge product be better promoted could it be packets in such a way that the results can be improved and maybe should the basic product itself also slide be sliced a little bit differently and finally do you know your stakeholders sufficiently well and do they know your tcp so maybe a small anecdote two years ago so i'm representing pvps we were having a technical visit at one of the prestigious friends pv institutes and so we met with its director and was all very well and we got this this nice tour and in the end i wanted to have some advice on how pvps could improve it its functioning and its offerings and we're was a bit of a cold shower because the director didn't know that much about pvps so it was kind of a sobering fact that although we think that we are doing great work it wasn't recognized by by at least the place that we thought were important to us so i'm ex-co-alternate and five-year communications at pvps and i'm also involved in reviewing tasks reports before publications so i've learned first hand of some of the difficulties that tcps like pvps are facing so it's ranging for from help that experts need to identify key messages from their work to the absence of for instance indicators the number of downloads of technical reports to discovering that when you want to update a communications strategy that there wasn't one in the first place so i know a little bit of the internal workings and the problems that us at tcp can face when you start to work a little bit more seriously on communication so as a national agency we would like very much to see that the outcomes of all the tcps is easily digestible accessible relevant for policy advisors but very much also for the branches that are concerned by the tcp topics and we figured that the tcps as a group are doing very well and they have many great practices to to share that each tcp individual tcp can benefit and learn from and we think we would like to share these needs that we share these needs with many of you so 30 90s piece that that's quite a big number and that's why in very close collaboration with the ias secretariat so i would like to name ana calista and kc michael's who have been very involved over the past 12 months so the secretariat and the bcw consulting group we analyzed only a limited number of of tcp seven actually so that came down to holding to holding interviews with them and also to analyze their the websites their production and to come up with recommendations so it was a rational approach because only limited to seven we needed to be efficient but also very positive approaches were seeking for very positive messages that could can be shared with all of you so today we want to share and discuss these recommendations with you we hope that you will get excited by the remaining untapped communication potential for your tcp and that you will drive home the results of this afternoon's exchange for further discussion within your excursion and that you will get organized to kickstart working on improvements if you deem that useful so we acknowledge that this will take time it will take its time to acquire necessary competencies and for that you may probably also need additional budget or reallocate budgets but we would love to meet in the near future so that each of you can present and share the progress and possibly also some tangible results that you will have produced with all of us so I am quite sure that this afternoon will be quite interactive and inspiring and I promise you won't get bored so let's see there's a a slide this is a little bit what I discussed so the assignment was initiated by by Edem and the secretariat and it was really driven by by a need that we felt at Edem in France but I think it's shared with many of you and so we would like what we think it's can be helpful to improve the impact of of all your communications for your productions and publications and so the it will be what will now will be presented is the recommendations based on the best practices and we'll sum it all up in about an hour from now with recommendations on how to take things a step further so it's a partnership with BCW so it's Carolina Clouet and Alan Mikloski were in the center of the room and I'm now happily presenting the word to you thank you oops so good afternoon everybody thank you Paul delighted to be here with you today I'm Mikloski from BCW just perhaps a few words about who we are our agency so BCW Global is essentially a network of agencies from around the world who are present in 130 countries we're part of the WPP group which is one of the world's let's say most far-reaching communications services group what's our focus we have an approach that aims to seamlessly seamlessly weave a comprehensive narrative that engages the complete range of the most relevant stakeholders for the organizations that we work with and we leverage every tool every channel and every tactic available to achieve the goals set by and often with our clients so in terms of our expertise we cover the full spectrum of communications with the exception of advertising so that covers insights and analysis corporate reputation media relations government relations and public affairs influencer advocacy issues and crisis purpose and ECG ESG sorry and financial communications so that's it in a nutshell on who we are so how did we work Paul touched on this briefly we worked with a tried and true methodology through seven interviews with the representative panel of the TCP so we have 4E, HEB, users, bioenergy PVPS HPT and combustion and it was we have to say a most stimulating exercise for us because we collected lots of very rich input so the objective here was to understand TCP's communications how you communicate your needs your constraints activities experiences and of course your criteria performance then as Paul already mentioned we did a website analysis and this was really to ensure that the website as you all know plays the full role of a showcase for your TCP activities but also as a tool of promotion and we'll talk about that in a little bit more detail in a while as a lever of attractiveness to really accelerate the sharing of the knowledge that you produce the very rich and in-depth knowledge that you produce and then in a third step we analyzed different publications with a focus on the reports and two pages for for policymakers our recommendations are driven really by a review of broader TCP's publications so a lot of TCP's came up with newsletters case studies magazines and articles but we'll go through that in a little bit more detail in a while good afternoon we had four levels of reading first what we learned from interviews and analysis this is the first level and we had a lot of quotes in our report second the best practices to our point of view that is to say the good practices to be generalized then we we had to share a key recommendation to make progress by enhancing the value of work produced by you the TCP's and at the end to go a step further we also mentioned some guidelines on how to accelerate performance in communication so how are we going to work this session this afternoon we're going to review together the key recommendations as we already mentioned that came out of the analysis we've also prepared four rounds of questions which will enable you all to react because one of the objectives this afternoon is to have an interactive session however it's going to be very short you will have just a few minutes so between five and ten generally to react to these different rounds of questions let's go through our recommendation beginning with this way of extending audiences and with a picture and a question are you sure you have all reached all your audiences today so that the third question which is important to us and we recommend to make a mapping of your ecosystem in order to be sure that you have identified all the potential audiences that may be interested or related to the technologies and the research you deal with first point step out of your comfort zone so to say to reach strategic ecosystems to reach new networks and new communities and second point question your target ecosystem as a on a regular basis to entertain to enrich your audiences as you can see on the picture in blue you have your traditional targets as we heard from interviews so to say policymakers industry actors other research makers and content makers also that is to say journalists NGOs newspaper etc and this is our third point we recommend to add additional target groups here in orange in the picture such as financial bodies that also support research through for example investment funds through industrial analysts who have as you know sometimes a role of prescription for technologies but also academic world at large with major universities laboratories or new emerging or new players such as startups and young enterprises and also think and do tanks or specialized consultancies to develop this potential target audience fourth point mobilize these stakeholders you already work with or you have identified through this process to enrich your database and last recommendation get yourself listed if possible in the circles that interest you and that you don't know or you don't participate yet so we're now going to move on to the interactivity based on what Garlene just said and okay you're going to have several pieces of information on the side here so on one hand you need to to be able to be interactive and to be able to give your input you need to connect to what you see on the screen here so you have the the site menti.com and then you have to enter the code that's that's on the screen and in the meantime this is as our first round of questions I'm going to call out the questions that you can think about and out of the four recommendations we want to know which one do you consider to be the easiest to implement when it comes to extending audiences so question one question your target ecosystem regularly so evaluated and and really decide what is interesting to to think about get together and and have several points of view second question add additional target groups to your initial mapping third question mobilise the stakeholders you already work with to enrich your database and fourth question kaolin already mentioned it in in her previous slide get yourself listed in the circles that interest you and that you don't yet know so you now have 10 minutes to react I hope everything's clear has everybody expressed their votes okay so so it looks as if we have a winner which is which is question three so mobilise your stakeholders you already work with to enrich your database followed by question your target system regularly and then we have two parts with add additional target groups to your initial mapping and get yourself listed in circles that interest you that you don't already know thank you so we're now going to move on to optimising websites yes I think we have somebody has a yes I have a question and it comes to database can you extend a little bit what you understand on database and when you reflect it with the requirements of data projection and all this regulation that you have to fulfil because that's one of the big challenges yes we don't have in mind something formal like Excel and Excel file for example because it's forbidden and it's not necessarily the best way to work with so our approach is quite informal but which what is important is to have identified interesting networks interesting functions organisation and people and to get in touch with them as quickly as possible does that answer your question okay let's move on then since we're rather limited in time so I'm just going to move on to optimising websites so really to to to brand the home page and to deliver and express the TCP promise we have this is the slide that's indicates on the right hand side the IEA brand guide with the seven different chapters introduction visual guidelines digital media print media communication guidelines contact us so to increase TCP's legitimacy as trusted science producers in a very competitive ecosystem of research players our recommendation is and the IEA's is to really use and follow closely the brand guide and this is also to draw benefit from the IEA's reputation and then what we thought was interesting as well as a promise is to express yourself sharply in the about section on your website so you can on one hand refer and have a descriptive a descriptive standard introduction if you like to the TCP slash IEA or you might prefer to have a more attractive promise let's say a catch your kind of promise and we had two examples on the right hand side that we thought were interesting one is expressed as being as having independent knowledge and the other is international framework for cooperation and networking so this is really accentuating your value proposition through carefully chosen and sharp words that resonate as far as wording is concerned promises and signatures can also be expressed in a sort of compact formulations and also in an editorial style we have here two examples of what we mean bioenergy with this promise accelerating to net zero which goes straight to the point if you want more information read more etc etc and the second example is related to users TCP and we can see here that by social technical research to inform policy making for clean efficient and secure energy transition we have this compact formula that gives sense plus energy to the presentation of the work and of the activity we also recommend strongly recommend using what we call visual vocabulary so on the left hand side of the slide you see a very attractive visual which brings warmth to the reader to the person who's navigating your website versus what you have on the right hand side whereby you have more technical graphs and visuals which for us are really more appropriate for integrating into the actual content of the work let's talk about instructive language and let's consider together that even your grandmother must be able to understand the research you do and the things you do okay however complex the technologies however complex the scientific contents please keep it simple there is some tools for that you can use pictograms such as here in the slide use pixels we have picked up some models here you can also use of course videos you can use tutorials and so on and so on the the idea is to be understood as large as possible and as with a degree of proximity to your audiences so from this very moment all your grandmothers be part are part of your target audiences so another way of animating your home page is to have a lively and updated a regularly updated news section this shows that you are in tune with what's going on it serves to provide information on different trends and we think it's interesting to show a more open TCP also if you have any events going on the idea is to promote conclusions and include when possible replays and links to on your webinars so we have one example on the on the left hand side of the slide a workshop entitled technology advances in liquid biofuels and renewable gas and so read more so you have the links so you have the essential in the title and again it's good to promote this and to share as much as possible and then and then the invitation to actually join the debate and provide any facts that can actually bring the debate forward let's say but also let's say safeguard and defend the technologies that you are promoting and here we have so campaigns questioning the use of woody biomass for energy are missing key facts and then the FAQs and the reports and so on recommendation number five stimulate collaborative contribution here you can see as some examples of membership how to join ideas and proposals all this material giving a positive signal to your audiences that you are sending to your networks and your your communities if you have a suggestion for an international collaborative project please contact suggestions are very welcome etc so show you as a TCP as open as possible to welcome ideas and contribution so that we describe yourself as an open entity and lively entity so we would strongly encourage you to share any success stories that you have because it just makes what you have to say a lot more concrete and and this is what speaks most to those visiting your website so we found too interesting examples here so bioenergy bioenergy success stories so divided into first of all you have the the date took place between 2013 and 2016 location in Germany the technology don't use the principal feedstocks and so on and so forth so the idea is really to have a short format short and consistent and sharp highlighting really the success factors the players involved the impact when you can with facts and figures and of course highlight the sources of additional information to go even further last recommendation regarding websites is to anticipate information needs through for example like here F IQs to anticipate answers to commonly questions about issues different aspects of the research technologies involved in your works etc it helps present the TCP that is in tune with the issues of society which is of concern to a wider audiences so you have the choice here we have chosen a few examples such as is energy from woody biomass positive for the climate and so on and so on so we're now going to go to the second round of questions well in fact know the recommendations rather to be more precise so if you can do as you did a while ago and then what I'm asking you to do is out of the seven recommendations that we're listing here which ones do you consider to be the most difficult to implement so branding the homepage and the TCP promise building a visual vocabulary using instructive language animating the homepage stimulating collaborative contributions sharing success stories and anticipating information needs so I'll leave you to to connect and and vote please okay has everybody voted finished voting perhaps what might be interesting to share here because we see that there are two that take up the biggest portion here so one is stimulating collaborative contributions and the other is building a visual vocabulary as being the most difficult recommendations to implement would anybody feel like expressing why? why you find them difficult to implement any any takers? well stimulating contributions are fantastic but extracting them from the participants of annexes and tasks has proven very difficult over the years and it seems that pretty much any incentive that you offer doesn't always result in a flood of responses thank you what about stimulating collaborative oh sorry what about building oh sorry sorry so in our case or in the case of our tcp we find building the visual vocabulary the the big challenge and it's often difficult to distill complex concepts down to a simple understandable graphic that my grandmother would understand we don't have that skill amongst our technical experts and we struggle to isolate or find the resources to fund the right expertise to do that that has the communication skill set and at least a fundamental understanding of our technical content to be able to work with our experts to do that so that's some kind of where we come at that challenge okay thank you we do appreciate the difficulty but we did see some input that we found quite interesting thank you excuse me is it possible to make some comments on your questions I I appreciate the question I find that some art if I may say a little bit easy for instance when you say that you want you recommend to use the ia brand which I fully share the fact is that if you want to issue a report with an ia brand I mean you have to go through the ia and the process is very cumbersome as far as I know so even if you wanted in that is effectively I wouldn't say a non-start but a very heavy process when you say that you want quick ways to join the community I mean again this is the process tends to go through government through you know ministerial approach to the ia I don't know whether it's really a necessity to have a quick way to access but I mean it is not and I think the nature of the TCP is such that yes it's easy to say but okay you welcome to talk to your neighbour on the right hand side and see what you can improve that the website again something very easy I mean we had the discussion in some TCP's I mean the website you need somebody to host the website to design the website to maintain the website and it's not obvious that the community that are involved in the TCP have the resources to do that on a on a continuous basis because I mean worse than not having a website is to have a bad website so we need to foresee that and and finally you know anticipating the questions I would say that I agree with you although the question tends to be very political I work on nuclear fusion I mean I'm quite happy to answer to the question is nuclear fusion good but I don't think that the technical answer is to satisfy anybody that you look at the question so yes you're right but the question may be very much of a political connotation and I do not think it is for the TCP technical people to try to answer those okay thank you so let's go through a new slot of recommendation dedicated this time to publications first recommendation please facilitate the understanding of your own world I mean for example this particular way to simplify the understanding of your own organization here is an example of a diagram which enables us to understand how the research is for example subdivided particularly by showing the tasks appendices projects including several TCP's links between other TCP's timeline of the project etc it's important because it's easier to understand how you work and therefore what you produce in terms of research the second example here is to give an overview of milestones in your area of activity such as key dates such as technology which are concerned by your research and so on and so on by this kind of images too so how to gain conviction so on the next slide we have yes so we continue on optimizing publications what we think is a really good way to do this is to really opt for the use of infographics when you can to really highlight the essential and we have this example just below key findings ESL report which we think is really well done so you have really the essence of what you want to say it helps you distil so you have the pictograms you have the key facts and figures you have percentages so it really helps to grasp the essential of what you want to communicate in a light and easy to consult way on the right hand side of the slide what we do recommend is to avoid what we call the catalogue effect of the year's achievements but we think what we have in these examples is really good in the sense that you have a short summary of what you want to say and then you have the links to if you know if somebody's interested but it's it is important to to get the wording right so that you're your visitor let's say will want to go a step further and click on the links the other recommendation we have is to work like journalists too how do journalists work they love playing with words they love part of I guess their training is to really look for the essence of what they want to say and really encapsulated into just a few words and they come up with catchy phrases catchy titles really to to attract and to stimulate and to I guess facilitate the reading as well so this again just as a few examples we've taken for the heat pump systems so good examples exist more standardization needed so the use of heat pumps in apartment buildings is possible already so on so on so then key findings it is possible to use heat pump system in apartment buildings is possible and already practice and so on and more standardization needed etc etc so really the idea as well is to insert subheadings introductions quotes whenever you can again it's to to give some air to give some life and bring what you want to say to life with the catchy wording as soon as do our last recommendation convey emotion yes you can through your publications what we would like to share with you today is this kind of motto just because your subjects are highly technical does not necessarily mean that you are condemned to an Oster style and this is the reason why we have chosen this image and these warm colors here give yourself the freedom to inject color warmth and emotion in your into your publications today we know that all players in the research sector in the research area do this use this kind of techniques for your type of subjects to for example NGOs for example actors from civil society journalists et cetera or other international organization the first way to do this we have already mentioned that about the websites is the use of the visual vocabulary you have here some examples as extracted from your reports showing buildings showing and user technologies for example or other technologies which are very impressive and a very aesthetic to share with your audiences to to share emotion worms and something more over your technology and research okay so just to finish up before we move on to the the last round of questions our idea is really to incite you to when you can introduce the human touch and when possible even lightheartedness even though your subjects are serious but that does not not take away from the seriousness of your subjects so it could be through team portraits it could be what we call backstage stories or the making of reports for example I know that I'm just thinking of a professor from MIT a few years ago at a at a conference here in Paris and he he he just created a very funny movie and the audience was breaking their heart laughing and it was about AI okay it was in the early stages because it was a few it was a few years ago but it was just whatever way he did it was so good because the audience really loved it and was a way of getting the message across in a in a fun way and his his point was making sure that the objective and the instruction you give to your robot is very precise otherwise it could go haywire and it did because the robot seeing hungry children they he actually looked around in the fridge couldn't see anything got the cat and put the cat in the oven anyway that's just one example so yep so we're now going to continue on on our round of this time it's actually recommendations we wanted to know if any of these recommendations if they surprised you in any way we would like to just have your reaction so I'll just go through them briefly so simplify the understanding of your organization give the overview of the milestones in your area of activity avoid the catalog effect of the year's achievements create titles like journalists do insert subheadings introductions quotes or keywords and then on the conveying emotion use all available available space to introduce images show communities at work teams portraits backstage stories and making of reports amongst others excuse me what do we answer if none of them surprise us well I guess you're a champion everybody completed their vote okay so we're I guess we're surprised maybe at reactions but I'm sure they're interesting and we'd like to have your comments so visibly the one that surprised most is avoiding the the catalog effect as would with somebody like to express why or not otherwise sorry I just if you wanted to explain just I think that it was like the the gentleman said already that maybe none of them were so surprising sure understand understand understand I guess this is followed then by communities at work and then we have simplified the understanding of your organization and create titles like journalists do I choose this last one create titles like journalists do I wasn't surprised because it's a it's a valuable thing but we are not journalists so I think it's dangerous leave a message in few words if these words are not so precise on the communication because the most of the people are people from of course scientific or technical environment so I think that there's the need of a professionalist to do it because of otherwise you only send this message nobody reads the other things and if you're not right with this message it's in my opinion at least in my professionality that is not like a journalist understand I understand the precision precision point I guess our message our main message was to incite people to incite visitors to your website to to read your reports inject a bit of catchiness if you like it's kind of boosting the attractiveness inciting people to to read further so but understand that that everybody is not doesn't have a journalistic mindset we do not recommend to damage your production it's perfectly clear we just like to share the fact that you can it's a question of balance between precise being precise as a searcher do as scientists do and convince your audiences this is this balance is there is something to play with I think there was somebody else down here wanted to comment thank you it was really interesting I ticked the box on simplifying the understanding of your organization we we did our website a few years ago and we started off with big discussions about who our target audience was and we sort of were aiming at energy professionals so they might not be experts in our field but they kind of know the energy language so we didn't want to oversimplify it because we're not really aiming at the general public thank you understand I think there was somebody else who wanted to make a comment so um I just wanted to say maybe another way to think about it is and I've worked for the federal government in the United States for a long time so I understand this concept sometimes we think that when we post something through a website we have communicated when in fact communication is when you get a response and connect with an audience right so I understand the limitations of being able to communicate highly technical issues to an audience right but we do have that obligation to do that we aren't doing this for a public service right so I think that we have to find a way to to make that connection to not just put stuff out there but also to hear the feedback from the audiences that you're trying to reach so I maybe just I'm very sympathetic to this idea of communicating like a journalist right but I think the aim of what's being presented here is to connect with your audience and so forgive me if I'm not expressing that right but I think that's what the aim is and and if your audience is a technical one then then you know then it's a technical one right but I do think that to a certain extent we do have to think about the grandma because she is paying the taxes for for the work that we're doing thanks thank you that was very clear maybe somebody else we think put up their hand it's not exactly on this question thank you very much for this presentation but they have a plea I unfortunately belong to the part of the population something like 15 percent which face problems with colors and contrasts so they are parts of your slides I just cannot read so if you can later on avoid to write in white on or in light green on white or in dark pink or red on black on dark pink on red or things like that that will help that you cover 100 percent of the population and I will be very much happy to understand what you say and what you write thank you oh thank you for sharing that with us we will certainly take that on board thank you so we're now going to maybe jump to the future and we're going to round up with a very last a very last question so out of we're going to we're going to put up here we go so out of the three solutions that would help you most can you indicate this time in order of priority from one to three so this would be really helping you most as you go forward in the future with your communications programs so one participate in a training session two benefit from external communication expertise three exchange best practices with other tcps thank you so if everybody has finished maybe I'll hand the floor back to Paul to come and tend to conclude yeah thank you Carolina and for for very very clear presentation very vivid so I think it was a nice opportunity to to present to you these recommendations I feel that all tcps can benefit from them some of them of you may have recognized some of the information the website pages etc that were presented so thank you very much for for all these tcps that have participated in the interviews I think what we can take home is a number of things for one as the polls have shown there's quite a breadth in the answers on what is perceived as as your needs and your regard communications some difficulties some surprises that you may have had or not so it's quite a various landscape that no easy single needs that have shown up I think I very much appreciate the remark made by the US delegate that communication is connecting with your audience I think that sums it up quite quite nicely so thank you for that so and like I said I think bcw itself had an experience rather painful one when it comes to communication because your homework was actually a slide deck of under seven pages so we insisted on bringing that back to some 35 there was not a difficult there was not an easy thing to do it was quite difficult so that shows that that communicating getting the essential information out is no easy task and that's well I think for everyone so it also has been mentioned that we're not journalists and I think that's very true so today the audience is you it is the chairs of the tcps and cert members and I think what is very valid is that that experts that typically work in your tcps they normally in their line of work when it comes to public publication of scientific articles they're actually being taken by the hand by by a journal that is publishing their results and all the work is done for them so it's really a different it's a different expertise that is needed so that's well noted as well so I think just to conclude the big question is how to go forward so I think there's this variety of needs some things have come up quite quite clearly I think especially with the latest poll so I think there's need for external expertise for for many of you tcps so it's probably something that should be organized within your tcp the other thing that came up is also something that's interesting I think to the IEA's secretariat that is that tcps are looking forward to having an exchange on best practices so to continue more or less what we have been doing this afternoon I don't know we have discussed a little bit with the secretariat how to follow up I think we'll think it over we'll think what has been set in exchange this afternoon but it could be that we'll get back to you soon probably before the end of the year probably with some kind of questionnaire to to get a better idea of what what your needs are if you wanted to improve your communication and then based on that we could probably come back to you early 2024 with some concrete propositions thank you Alander thank you very much Paul and thank you for the presentation I hope that we all learned a little bit today or maybe a lot and as you said Paul a lot of food for thought and to think about as we think through how to incorporate this into next steps one last session before we close I'm going to hand it over to Per who's going to provide a short summary of what we heard amongst the various breakout groups in the first session earlier this afternoon thank you very much Amanda and thanks of course all to all the participants including the the moderators and the note-takers for for conducting the exercise and I take it that since no one was here for the coffee break you had a in time you had a good discussions and also passing by the rooms outside of the rooms I heard were quite active discussions as well so I really hope from our side behalf from our side that you really found this as a useful exercise and as we said this is a starting point in many ways for trying to dig a bit deeper into what we could be doing from a of course from a government point of view you delegates from certain working parties but also from TCP sides what are the potential improvements to make in the how you communicate for the annual briefings and of course what's the wishlist to the ISCA Territz for also helping to support communication across the network and then also of course thanks to the the colleagues here for doing this last exercise which of course is also part of this broader conversation of how to improve communication building upon the feedback we received through the the cert review just in very short summary and we go through the details and debrief with some of the colleagues that took the notes to make sure we don't any miss any good inputs and details but just in a quick summary on when it comes to the the role of the cert working parties basically our government officials seems to be quite a strong support and recognitions that there will be a value to have national TCP days on a more frequent basis in countries but also identifying national TCP coordinators to continue building that ownership of the TCPs ensuring that there are alignments with government's priorities also there is a wish for clear guidance from cert to the TCPs and we have that discussion tomorrow as well as part of the request for extension that process we're also part of the cert review we are there are discussions or had been discussions of clear guidance to the TCPs for those for that process so cert is something that being in motion but again here the working parties will play a role as well because cert cannot in itself be active in 39 TCPs however on that note I also see in some comments that many TCPs and we heard it's also in the past from the cert delegates to open up the TCPs ex-commitings activities for cert delegates that are interested there was one idea of not saying that that's cert delegates adopt the TCP but this also find a way to maybe if there's an interest from cert delegates to also follow individual TCPs to ensure that the gap between the delegates of cert and the TCPs are closed when it comes further to the discussion about what the TCP can be doing of course that's merely linked back to the annual reporting and was the format of that and I think we have again I got a few more reactions both from the cert delegates that's one to see a bit more policy oriented policy briefs achievements who were behind who were to part of the activities or were behind the achievements and to make sure that this is a document that in the end of the day is actually read so I think this is something we with certain tech note of and we'll use the next month to think and work together with you how it can be further improved then it comes to the IA side I think you mentioned it too to pull the role of us to continue facilitating between TCPs on best practices not so much of course on substance but on operation of the TCPs where communication is one side but also we hear that the other topics where TCPs even if working on very different topics can still have a value of working sharing best practices if it's on how to administer how to as was said by the the wind TCP this morning as well how do you as you're growing how do you manage to also how do you manage that growth to sustain it as well with all the additional work with the limited resources again something to think more about how we can operate of course we what we also heard from so in some of the comments is this idea of yes there is a need for and that's also that in the final slide here for continued advice from experts on communication we one of the questions when we asked what TCPs were missing sometimes in your network as well as linked to if we this idea of the peer review groups that can help with the request for extension process communication was mentioned what quite a few of you that this is one area where you don't have the expertise in the network and that could also be brought in so something to take note of as well the last thing to say or two more things and I know this is coming up also in many of the input to us where you TCPs think we should prioritize more is this how to facilitate better communication between the TCPs the delegate sub is mentioned as one potential tool but we also see in some of the proposals here to go even further and how to share contacts how to monitor exactly what's happening in each TCP work stream level annex level task level and these things is something to think about as well to ensure that we reduced barriers between the TCPs to work but again something on our which we take note of before as well and just finally which I think is a very good comment in this soup of acronyms how can I share that any newcomers are not discouraged for entering this community and easy poly well easy briefing material for and that goes the same with assert colleagues as well but also here if you have any newcomers to the TCP network is there anything that we can put together one or two three pages that could easily explain what this about what it's trying to achieve etc I think that's something which I think we can also consider but again there's no decisions here today it's just we really appreciate all the input and ideas that was a purpose for this session and now we continue regroup and we'll come back to you as well but seeking together with assert delegates preparing for the assert meeting in March to come up with the first or next step of some of these ideas to actually be put into practice thank you very much again and back to you chair thanks very much pair and thanks at all of you for your excellent participation through the day I think it's a positive sign when we can come out of these discussions with a very long list of things to consider it means that people participated in the discussions and had lots of thoughts which is better than the alternative I continue to be struck by the diversity among the TCPs in this room and otherwise both in terms of the subjects that you cover the level of granularity with which you cover them and the organization that you use to undertake your work so I hope that it's been beneficial here on the first day for us to continue to learn from each other before we wrap up I'm going to hand it over to Timur for a few parting words thank you Amanda I don't want to say too many things other than big thanks to all of you for the active participation today I hope it was useful for you both the input we just got from our external colleagues on the communication side of things big thanks from my and certainly from the secretariat and for for the contribution here but also with a view to the exchanges we had I personally found it extremely useful not only with regards to the themes that we were covering but I also learned a lot from Brian about the history of the ETSAP TCP to Keith the number of summer schools that they have been hosting or from Stefan in the break no over wind supply chains so I think that's the key value here that we have an opportunity to meet others talk about things that we're experiencing in our day to day type of work how it compares with the work of others so for us as an agency it was very useful to discuss with you today I hope you find it among yourselves as useful and also the opportunity to exchange with the CERT colleagues we will have a formal or we will have a reception not so formal I think a reception tonight so no I'll take off the tie then so to emphasize the informality but yeah we are looking forward to further discussions there and of course to tomorrow so back to you Emuna thank you so for those of you here in the room and with apologies to those of you online the reception is going to be in the IEA cafe which is just outside the door and to your right at the end of the hall just a few things to remember for tomorrow so we're back here in this room we're downstairs in this room again for day two tomorrow same timing so coffee networking starting at 9 a.m. with the session kicking off here in the room promptly at 9 30 tomorrow we're going to dig in a little bit deeper to the notion of TCP coordination groups to the request for extension process and we'll also have a special address by Dr. Biral the executive director of the IEA a reminder for those of you here to please keep your badge so you can get back into this building tomorrow and I'll see you at the reception thank you to those of you online have a good evening thanks for an excellent day