 what's up everybody once again is brand man Sean and as you guys can see it's another yet another interview very special guest for you guys watch you and ghost right and this guy he has a lot of plays on YouTube spotify millions of plays on one song on YouTube a really dope music video on a trap city page probably has about 815k and in views over 300k of listeners on spotify I could go on about the numbers stuff as you guys know I don't really just focus on numbers as far as why I interview people I really think the respect if he has and the path of what he has gone on in music but where he still is on the business side and working his way up in general will probably be useful for you guys so we're about to find that out what is up bro good man first and foremost man let's tell everybody where y'all are from from a city in Canada province of Quebec predominantly French province it's a French but yeah that's that's where we from what's the music scene out there in Montreal I've talked to quite a few people I know a few people I don't think I've ever really talked about on page had it what's the perception of the music scene Montreal particularly hit my fish okay so exact so in hip-hop it's a it's a very small scene and the superstars are really the the producers right we got the K-tranada's we got the high-classifies the P you know a lot of a lot of the producers are the ones that really lead in the way right now and no police that's like out there yet that really is the voice of Montreal as a in terms of like who's leading the scene so it's like a really really really small circle and yeah like you said like the the producers the one leading the way on that but that's only if we're talking about the English language yeah really really what's like really popping out here is like French rap on the French side on the French side of shit that we got guys like Fookie we got loud which is on our stadium here like where the Montreal Canadiens play the hockey team that's called a belson and we have like the first rapper local rapper that's about to have his show there his name is loud and he blew up like he was part of a group but he recently went solo and he's gonna have a show up in there so he's really doing a big miss mostly cuz he got he got local support but he really popped in in Paris in France in Europe Paris France for example but yeah so the French side of shit the guys are really popping but on the English side it's really yeah I mean they're making music and like production doesn't have any language to it just music yeah it surpasses the language barrier in Montreal historically Montreal has been like a dance music so that's why you know like electronic dance music is like a subset of dance music and that's like since the 70s and shit so like all that techno shit like that coke and Molly type of shit like parties and shit like that's what in Montreal is like based on yeah they're also don't like listening to a lot of lyrics but the biggest artist ever from Montreal like Celine Dion fucking simple plan okay okay completely different vibe yeah like that we don't want to hear all the words y'all messing up our high that's so that's the big all right but um but well before we get to some of the specifics of working your path explain your relationship like you and ghosts how do you guys link up and how do you guys work with their music we met okay so in Quebec we have this thing after high school called it's like caught like a junior college type thing we call the CGF here just like two years after you know after I'm high before you go to university and that's what I mean but the thing is like our high schools are five years like you guys have junior high middle school so like after sixth grade there's like five years that we call secondary so set the secondary one or sec one for short all the way up to sec five yeah that's like grades seven to eleven we call that high school got you and then we got that at the CGF thing and then we have CGF for two years just like community college yeah but we're kind of we have to like do it you gotta do it yeah yeah you got one way you can do it you do one year of CGF and then that will count as like finishing high school for like other places because that that would be technically a supplementation for like 12th grade and then you can apply to like colleges outside Quebec so like dates or like somewhere else in Canada it's like it's really particular to Quebec because like you go to Ontario like Toronto and stuff you go to 12th grade and go straight to university so it's a little weird over here but yeah that's what we met we always we're talking about music like you would put me on to a lot of old shit and then we just always talk about music and one day it's like yo can you do this magic managing shit and he's like now I don't know about managing and then he went to do his research for like on the internet for like three days and we came back but I bet I got to talk to him it goes seem like the vibe I catch off a ghost really already is a research heavy dude man you seem like you know about your weird like random facts and shit like that also he got like a crazy his memories is ridiculous so it's like he'll I'll be like yo when do we release this song and it would be like okay was April yeah February 12 2011 whatever damn you need yourself a manager like that you're saying hey hey for real for a lot of people are hurting for a manager says don't you have one so how let's um get to the point where you feel like you were taking rap seriously what made you what made what was that switch where you feel like this is a serious thing for you it was in 2012 me and actually men goes wrong the phone and he just hit me up out of nowhere and we just talk as we were I would kind of doing this music shit but it wasn't we're just doing it for fun right and you know if we're gonna do this like we can do that but we got to do it for real for real we just had this whole this conversation that lasted a long we have a lot of these conversations once in a while like your last three four hours and it's really like yo if we're gonna do it we're gonna do is for real and it's not no local shit like you know if you're gonna rap you want to be the best rapper then we're aiming at our competition is is Kanye is Drake is Kendrick Lamar is Jay Cole Jay Z not even people who are live like it's big it's too far no it's anybody that we ever out of lives in hip-hop anybody music out that's who we're competing against because you focus on the local shit then you only get local success and that's not what we aim you know so one day we had that conversation and that's when we're like it was in 2012 my I bet and from that point on that's when I took it seriously and really started making moves in towards that goal don't man I look I definitely like I've heard no not all you attracts but I definitely heard of you and I would I definitely but like the vibe like the feel you have a very no I'm not even gonna put you on the pocket with anybody but I like that I like the style it's moving it's already highly produced highly you know great production I think for real for I like interest in choices y'all make it might be a result of where you are you know I mean when you talk about people like hey you know I'm not saying like you I haven't heard occasion I beat that you're on but the production choices are interesting than what I oftentimes I'm here and then your flow is you know it's on par with you know just wait anybody else you know I'm saying so where who inspired you who are your primary inspirations when it came to your rap style was it like more of a you more you can do you consider yourself more of a Kendrick camp because Kendrick's probably too he might be too young to be one of your main inspirations but was it more more lyrical type artists in general or was it just anything well appreciate it and yeah that's a good question because actually I don't think it's a too young for me to to to be influenced by our inspired by it because the older I got the more I realized that I could get any body like it doesn't matter who it is what it is it could be like a local a local rapper that I don't really you know listen to like that but if I heard something that really like inspires me then I'll take it but growing up I really love Nas now was my favorite rapper that came from the school of like if you want to go there like more lyrical side but I moved away from only focusing on the lyrics I understand like it's just an aspect of hip hop you know it's like I don't like the segregation of always that lyrical or that mumbo or is it this or that it's like everything is important in hip hop and it's just about how much of each lane can you use you know I'm saying so Nas I love Nas I also love 50 growing up like in my early early teenage years it was 50 50 was everything that I listen to 50 G and it related I was it I even bought fucking the Tony a like that's it I bought like shady aftermath you know like yo I bought the remember that will be choice album I bought will be choice album even the the rear of joint like the Eminem I bought anything that the first album I ever bought was never should I try from then on I was hood you know you were walking around with a bulletproof vest where you ask my mom wouldn't get that summer spammy like man I was just trying to look with you in the clothing like yo that shit was yeah it's been a lot of different people over the year like I said no it's 15 I'm Andre 3000 most death Lauren Hill like it's a lot of people I listen to growing up I really like ASAP too I like drink I like a cake called for a while too like it's I want like my inspiration really came from everybody okay though yeah I can definitely hear a few of those people and then even a content that you talk about before because I like just to understand a little bit about the artist mindset and what they like to talk about even before you necessarily get into just that progress of the music from a consumer and marketplace standpoint and when I hear just your content I've heard it sounds like you care about certain issues you don't just talk like random stuff right you're usually saying something or you're mentioning like something about like I don't know black scam just making a surrender I'm not that I can't think of a certain lyric but there's a sense of consciousness I don't mean like that in the whole pigeon hole type of way you're a conscious rapper but you're you're making statements about things that you care about is that correct yeah I don't like you said I don't go into it as oh I'm the conscious rapper so I have to say I have to make a statement about something every single time but if something is on my mind that I want to address I don't shy away from the dressing you know like a song every black man talking about you know just the feelings of a black man in North America in this type of society that we have like I'm gonna talk about it I'll talk about whatever I want to talk about you know I'm saying so I definitely don't stop myself and talk about shit that I think is important but I also don't make it my point for every single song to talk about those things so it's really it really depends on how I feel or how really what the beat is telling me I'm listening to a beat I'm like okay this this is giving me some angry vibes like I want to I want to go in on this or I want to know it's more relaxed and suspecting type shit so I like it was ghost actually told me one time you like yo this this shit really stuck to me but it's like yo it's really like your voice is just the last instrument to place on a beat so it's like you can't just layer your vocals on top of a beat it's like okay whatever the song is inspiring you you add like the last instrument which is your vocal so whatever whatever the song really really needs is what I had to it. Hey man I know the super wise words man cuz I'm I get so glad people understand that because there's so many people and I'm not talking about when it's even to the extreme of like a ghost not a ghost a blue face where they're like oh he's off beat or something like that but there's so many people they got flow and they're rapping a lot just saying so many words but it's like do you even care about the beat like it's not musical it's like you're rapping you're a rapper you're a great rapper but as an artist or musician like you guys on completely different faith pages and I think a lot of times people like to blame the lack of appreciation for technique and skill for why they don't have a fan base when sometimes it's like no your music isn't good you're rapping but your music is that's 100% it's like oh no you guys don't want to listen to the moment show like you don't want to you don't want to listen to lyrics but like if you don't make me want to listen to you shit I'm not gonna fucking listen to it you understand like it's people a lot of people a lot of old heads of people who are like purists whatever right they want to talk about oh how right the way it's going right now people don't care about anything but I think it's just a pushback towards how heavily lyrical it was and that's just a natural pushback from like everybody like yo we don't want to hear like it's such a thing as overload like if you've given me too many things to listen to like I'm not gonna I'm gonna tune out so it's about physically putting shit that you want to put out that's why I really appreciate artists who are able to to their both sides but like I wouldn't believe in like lyrical non-lyrical because if you put words on the song their lyrics so it's lyrical you know I'm saying you can't have a song without any words on it just gonna have an instrumental type song but like for me like there's people that that they appreciate like a higher level of the usage of the English language in the poetic way and like more towards like the realm of Shakespeare shit like that and then there's people who just want to listen that would just want to listen to music based off of like emotions and the simplest words make the biggest impact yeah so it's like this whole like lyric shit versus non-lyrical shit I would prefer we'll start thinking about song exactly songwriting like really writing because like when you when you focus on songwriting like you can take a freaking spears and be like yo like that shit isn't lyrical but it's like every young bitch like 13 years old 16 years old or like even 33 they're feeling what she's saying you know saying lyrical it's just like it just resonates and it translates but it goes to where with definitions are because growing up for me when I heard the word lyrical it meant how many words can you write like it don't matter what like not this I love Papus but back then yo in like 0506 or so whenever it was I I was a disciple of Papus like I knew alphabetical slaughter for like the whole thing yeah that's cool that's cool rapping ability but is it going to speak to you like one line from not and the answer is no you know say you can say wait I know jizz it whatever um what's his name Kendrick Lamar had a line I remember what song was like rappers use big words to make the same of these curves my simple this shit be more pivotal and it's like it's true if if it has to take you 30 bars to say well one person can say in like one bar yeah exactly if it like it takes you a whole verse and for me it takes me one bar then who's a better writer you know say who's more lyrical so it depends on the on the on the definitions on the definition but for me like like like ghost said the song writing is the most important like what can you convey with your words to make it cool yeah yeah so yeah well really we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna walk and talk a little bit that's cool that's good hey yeah the song writing is the most important I'm with y'all 100% man I like at the end of the day is what are you measuring anyway right we're gonna have a lyrical competition okay we're measuring by that but oftentimes if you're measuring by the impact of people like what it had what it changing people's lives are really hitting certain moments in their lives outside of just appreciation of technique then it's usually gonna be more about songwriting and Steve Jobs said I believe it was him but he basically said like simplicity is the ultimate sophistication and and Albert Einstein basically said something like you talk just alluding to like if you have to use all these big words and things like that to explain something then you don't get it and I think all that stuff speaks to the fact and it's nothing against the lyrical thing well quote-unquote using a lot of words using elaborate language none of those things but for one you kind of have to sit with the fact that if people don't how can you expect to impact people if they have to stop look up every single word one you know I mean like even if you're just alluding to stuff in your particular hood and they might not understand the lingo or what's treat you're talking about they're gonna miss out on things right whenever you're a related stuff that people don't get you're decreasing the amount of impact that you could make so like whenever you simplify things I always talk about how to talk to early Kanye the ultra simple artists like as far as the lines they delivered but the impact that they had on the lines was was everything and you don't have to be lyrical for that so I'm with y'all 100% to pop Kanye and 50 they have like yo I wouldn't call him like crazy lyrical super lyrical whatever but they have reality bars yeah every line is like so real you know I'm saying like 50 just saying that shit on many men in the second verse when he's like with the fucking the shit about the rain and like this and that is like yo he's like one liners that they like stacked up what like one after the other it's like crazy complete song yeah right like yeah didn't talk about lyrical or it's a songwriting but there's a word that comes into songwriting that's the most important for me is quote what are you gonna we're gonna leave the song with like are you gonna quote something crazy crazy lyrical are you gonna quote something that Kanye said there was like I can't believe you said that like that shit it's you know a lot of exactly like Drake Drake has gets away with that stuff a lot he's a good writer too because in the sense that it's like if it makes you feel like damn I could have come up I could have came up with that oh I did not think of that and that's what makes it like sisterly brings you lines that you're like damn I should have thought of that it's so relatable it's portable and it's like it's gonna stay in your mind forever speaking for a generation speaking for a society just being people's voice just telling them what's really on their mind they might not even be able to express it themselves yeah formally in their own mind but that's a perfect description because I always say most of those lines that are super impactful and hit people that way are actually they're like memes on the track you know how you see memes and it's talking about some shit like yo I never spoke to anybody about that before but it's crazy they're right in my head with that one right that's actually perfect description of it like when you talk about quotables when we're talking about you know really simplistic not simplistic but like simple lines and stuff it's really about what are you gonna put as a captain on your on you know say people want to hear that yeah for real so maybe maybe at some point somebody will start reverse engineering they'll just create memes and then put the dopest mean it's gonna happen well hey let's up let's talk about like that journey you guys took because to start to get to these plays where now you're hitting a million plays or you've done collaborations with people who have a little weight behind their name what was that first step you took you thought you said you would take it seriously you knew that you wanted to get outside the city not just be in the city and what was your how fast did it take you to start catching on or where you felt like you know what like this music thing is starting to work out we know what the right mentality is I don't feel like I don't go doesn't either we don't feel like we we even started really doing it and this is like the prequel to the actual movie that's gonna come you know the same so all the little other movies we've been doing we know what I know it's good moves I know it's things that's gonna help me get further but if you see it as all I did something big then just gonna stop here then it's gonna be the end so it started off I made it a lot of my music was Montreal centric I collaborate Montreal artists and and that was cool like I was doing a lot for the city and stuff but at the end of the day we have to start venturing outside to really you know get the outside of the city to come fuck with me because at the end of the day if you blew up if you people outside the city fuck with you a lot then automatically people in the city Oh yeah yeah yeah I know that guy before that shit from 2012 to like 2015 like yo the journey was bad different cuz like yeah we were both in university doing like he graduated from my psychology so this music shit like a hundred percent like for me actually like like there's like this bubble like in Montreal right like right before all the producers will finish it like before before everybody knew who Caitrionata was who was Caitra Domino you know what I'm saying and like I was like yo like this guy is gonna be like the just blaze the Timbaland of our generation you know what I'm saying so I got to look up with him like I was actively going into the scene like yo I was working full-time I was doing school full-time and I was going out from Thursday to Sunday every single night you know I'm saying making making like making appearances in the scene and like I bought like the Marty McFly shoes you know I'm saying like 1212 racks and all that shit yeah my fashion shit like from head to toe was crazy like I used to be on hype these forums where the reason why I called him that night to tell him like yo let's take the shit seriously for real it's because I was seeing Tyler to create a blow-up of a hype these forums that's what Carlos used to go every fucking week to see how people dress up so that he could go to Kanye and give him his his style to you know I'm saying my wallet attend those forums fucking loop if he asked we used to attend those forums so when I was seeing people like blowing up just being posted on hype these I was like I have to dominate this website so I became one of the most popular users on hype these just with that established connection I was like I gotta do this in real life too so I went out in the scene every fucking week four days and four nights a week every single fucking I connected with with K-TRA connected with high classified high classified end up doing the song with the weekend I connected and future and I ended up connected with the P who was like a side to selection and shit like that so like I just became like a figure in the scene but I was always like yo I have this rapper he's gonna release it he's gonna release it I said that for three years and then in 2015 you know once I have like all the tracks ready with K-TRA and everybody else I was like yo it's time I gotta drop the shit he already finished his degree I dropped out cuz I was like fuck this shit I'm gonna do this music shit then like yo as soon as we released our first song it was over like first song got a noisy premiere it got like one of the most views on hype beast like the date came out and for that for that whole week it was like in the like top five news shit like hype beast dope it's just like it was no turning back you know what I'm saying I was like we gotta continue and then after that for the next six fucking months or seven months we're dropping the song every two weeks every two weeks the song comes out you know what I'm saying that we're getting blog after blog after blog like first it was noisy after that was okay player then it was hype track it was complex then it was ID and then it was exclaimed and like you know just like one after the other eventually we got bigger and everything just got just picking they weren't just picking you up though right you guys were like notifying some of them that that some more tracks are dropping right like as soon as a track would drop would work on like sending out the press for like the next release and all that shit like I got that that first run that we call it the first run from 2015 basically up until that MTL in the first MTL you drop like we were just freestyling a lot of this shit yeah I made a whole bunch of tracks but then afterwards like like all day these tracks ain't good enough or we have to do something different so track would come out try to do another track and then release it again in two weeks and just like it was a lot of it wasn't it wasn't much planning we just kind of jumped in but at some point you got it just you know I'm saying go in and then see what happens and then start yeah I knew this shit was working because like yo like suddenly like double excel fucking post one of the tracks I was like okay yeah we got this and then right after that Empire hollered at us yeah it's a distribution deal back in 2015 so you got that and then fucking like I'm looking at like this like the stat trackers or whatever I see like Warner music group and shit is like checking checking the website and shit like the tumbler and shit and then I'm like so we're actually making those people actually looking out for that wait what one real important thing that you did because someone asked me is this a thing that you can do like they were like instead of just releasing music should I just wait till I build connections and things like that and then release and I said that's definitely an option like they didn't they thought they had to just keep dropping keep dropping keep dropping and then didn't build up that way and then get connections but I know I told them there's a lot of people I know that were they might have just been a photographer a videographer but what if before whatever reason might not have been their strategy but they got a lot of connections and then when they decide to be an artist it is set them up on a whole different platform it sounds like you guys are able to do that except especially ghosts you know being a manager that's actually on their stuff like you got to focus on that heavily while you know you got to just focus on becoming a better artist and getting all that stuff together which is that's the benefit of course having a team everybody doesn't have I mean well I mean it's just two people that's still a duo I don't know if it's technically a team whatever number that that takes but like that's that's the benefit of having a manager that's really doing their stuff because there's a lot of managers that look they just they just aren't there and they don't understand I'm not even gonna say they're bad managers when we're talking about young developing ones but I don't think people understand the importance for the manager to be out in that scene you're the manager is a sales guy basically you got to be you got to chase it down all the time you got to understand the culture you know I'm saying like can't join all them like I became friends with them you know I'm saying they saw me I understand the beats like when he gets this shit mixed it's as if like they were gonna release their own instrumental tracks that's exactly how that they would want to mix you want their kick the Montreal sound like the kicks and the snares got to be the loudest shit you know I mean like the way our mixes are people don't know this because they're from outside of the city but like we have a very very specific type of song so like I embody this whole shit this whole Montreal culture so beat even shit I embody that shit because I've been in the mud with all of them you know I'm saying I got my respect from all of them like lunas like tight with you know I'm saying he produced the blood on the loose by carnivore he was one of the producers on that track and it's just like yo I know the whole entire scene and I was like yo once this shit comes out I'm gonna have everybody support I mean I was like yo we can't rely on one strategy we got to attack it every single way I was like I gotta attack the fashion wave I gotta attack the internet wave I gotta attack the Montreal wave I just got to take all these scenes and like it's like spirit bomb come on Dragon Ball Z and shit what do y'all mean by the fashion wave because I think I know what you mean but I don't want people to miss it so when you say you have to attack the fashion wave what does that look like and why would you attack the fashion wave cuz like yo like I came off of the hype these forms you know I'm saying like Taliyah the creator like he's not the first person to rock supreme but like he made it a trend in the mainstream you know I'm saying that was the thing in height on the hype these forms everyone was rocking supreme but he became like the face of high peace at that period of time around the same time like a year later asap rocky off of the forms and off of the opioid like keep you up off of the fashion wave as well and it's just that I was like yo since I'm already killing this fashion shit online yo I joined tumblr and I was and I was like I hate tumblr but I was like yo let me see if I can do something so I posted like a few outfits and I went tumblr viral so like okay I can do this shit then I shut down my tumblr after a month after that so then I was so I gotta translate this shit so the first music video yo there's like $40,000 worth of outfits in that music video you know what I'm saying like I just like killed that shit and that's why when it got posted on hype it stayed in the top five like useful resection for like a week and yeah like I just wanted every single demographic I could get you know what I'm saying that's what I that's why I like when people focus on and realize that there's these adjacent communities that's not just like the music community and you can cap off of these adjacent communities whether that's a lot of basketball players who like my music so I'm going to be an athlete in the in the locker room all my homies because I'm in that world or whether it's fashion or whether it's just videography photography there'll be just so many like random different like categories that you would gaming all and there's you know subcategories within each of these categories if you don't realize there's so many other communities it's hard as a matter of fact that music category is the hardest because one when you telling them to check for your music they're less likely to check for your music right or when you come in as I'm and you're competing with other rappers or other artists so it's a different place especially in the city like everyone everyone's a fucking rapper so it's like yeah what's gonna make me listen to you other than the 30 other niggas I just saw on the bus you're saying so it's like sometimes you gotta get get to them from a different angle and they're like oh shoot you make some dope music yeah because like yo they don't listen to English rap unless you're like top five yeah something like you gotta be a drink out here you got like yo what people have their tours and shit you realize like okay they'll go to Canada they'll be like in Toronto they'll be in Vancouver and then you see much else not on the thing because you know why because there's no fucking crowd for them even though they're they're a big artist if they're not Jay-Z big they're not yeah they're not gonna get because there's not gonna be like audience members will consider it's either your dad big or your French rapper and and decides that if you're not a rapper you have to be a pop star exactly that's exactly it you have to be a pop star you can't be a rapper you have to be a rapper who goes beyond rap like you broke it through the ceiling of rapping you're like a pop artist she's they gotta be up there up there alright so when you and I want to get deeper into some culture and things like that with you guys in that specific area a little bit later again too but for your music what was the first track that hit one million one million yeah yeah so like I did this commercial for Gigi what states close five we're like okay so like okay like not even so like eBay owns this company called key Gigi and it's like it's like a crate it's like a craigslist but like over here key Gigi's more popular than Craigslist so okay but it would do it like this new marketing strategy campaign whatever the ticket key Gigi poppin so they figured it out have some local artists to try to like to keep it authentic but to try to you know get some people interested in the shit right so they had this add-up or whatever they like okay we want like local rappers but they already had French rappers for it but they were like yo we need an English rapper for this shit and like the city has no good English rappers because motherfuckers don't speak English here so they're like but then like one of the kitchen artists biggest video directors so he was like he saw the bow to blow music video like oh shit I think he can rap it like he could do the double-time flow basically that's what it was it was they were looking for somebody that could double-time flow and they're like yo can you and then they sent me to beat they're like yo can you do a little something on this rap about cars and do a double time like yeah it's like work so I did it send it in and they're like yo yeah we want you to come in right now let's do it so I did that we did the whole commercial thing and then was basically there was two the first the first campaign it was two one of them was like 30 seconds long yellow 15 seconds and the one that was 15 seconds long had like three it's a three million yeah and that was my first then I went like viral in a sense and I was like a Canadian wasn't we're about 10% of Canada's population watch yeah exactly I remember that's when I started like people started recognizing me like oh you know you the the Kijiji guy I was like yeah that's I didn't want to be pigeonholed I was like oh you the guy that raps the commercial but I knew I was like you told me like yo doesn't matter what you do but if the music is dope at the end of the day then that's not you gonna be known because I was like oh if you fear of becoming a X type of rapper you're not you're not that good of a rapper you know if you're really really good you're gonna break through every fucking ceiling that they put you under everything just a new level there's always gonna be ceilings to create is up to you to break through the next one because I ever this is every level is his own ceiling that's interesting that you broke through with that placement because that was that's basically what it was and and how to touch on that process a little bit more because I think a lot of people don't understand placements I remember I didn't fully understand how some placements work until I was talking to this one guy who got a placement deal and when I'm talking about specifically is not when you have a song and in a commercial but that sound like that other process when they're like this is what we need and you create a song from that is that what y'all did well for the key G commercial it was there I think the reason why it worked so well is because they really wanted to keep it authentic so it was not many restrictions it was like yo talk about cars be you like keep your your charisma your energy and like basically like don't cuss but talk about these specific cars and it just let me go with it so I just wrote like a lot of time I make my own music that way so okay somebody would say something about I like that idea and I just run with it so they don't run with the idea of cars so I did it and they loved it and we just recorded it and everything was like there was no I don't know you got changes or no you can't say that or make it sound like this it was like yo do you and it's gonna be good and that's why I was like it was authentic that's why people really really fuck with it it's not even a song it's really just 30 seconds and 50 seconds it's really almost like freestyle and given how yeah we're asking for the song like yo what can I download yes you didn't cap off of that you didn't make a full song off of it but but I mean I was thinking about it but it never really got to that but the way people's attention spans are different and we're just talking about a little nice ex the old town old town road that's a minute forty seven seconds like that that's what music is now you know it's crazy I cuz like like we talked about before I came from we came from the era where songs were minimum five minutes like three verses and then it got to like third verse got deleted and now it's like it's one verse like half of it's like eight bar you remember that shit all the time that shit like seven minutes so a little bit of an adjustment to to the new age but that's what's cool I'm going circling back to like how I attack rapping or what school I'm in it's more like you know I'm able to keep the essence of of lyricism or songwriting and just add it to the to the modern modern day yeah actually so like my main thing was like yo this is what you gotta do when you do this rap shit you gotta be able to impress the old heads so you've got to be able to compete against cool G rap no $103,000 big pun big L Wu Tang anyone you gotta be able to like do that but on modern day beats I still keep it catchy or like how it's really all by the delivery nowadays yeah so like if the delivery is hip-knotted and you're still able to put on both then you win all crowds he does this perfectly like yeah first thing you will listen to is they don't care about the lyrics the first time I listen to something really just like you know this shit did this just sound good yeah okay I'm listening to it again oh I thought that I was kind of cool texture and then after when you get to the fourth fifth listen that's when like oh shit though you really gotta you gotta really admit it's about attacking all the types of listeners the passive listener was just listening to it the musicality of it yeah if it enters the ear drum and it's really good as well as the passive listener and the focus listening ones really analyzing the track yeah so you gotta realize most people are going to be passive listeners and when they first hear your song because they're you're interrupting their their their space or what they're on most times to start off with so I definitely agree with the delivery thing I think a perfect example that is Cardi B right and really most music outside of hip hop but let's just say within hip hop they say Cardi doesn't really write a lot of her stuff cool but her delivery is undeniably off the chain like and you you can write for anybody but that delivery isn't on point it's still not going to connect the same and she kills her delivery she owns it and outside of rap I mean you know a lot of people got songwriters but it's all about the delivery anyway so I think that's a point well made that's a that's a good point brother I was talking about Cardi B the other day I think I was I was just shooting or playing ball and somebody played some Cardi B and I was like man the way she said shit like who like it just sounds so good I don't care who the fuck right she sounds good yeah I'll give her a fuck we'll go back to Jackson and use the rest of the facts for real that's just reality of it and I mean that's coming from people who are in it like the people who are just fan fan like you know the general consumer they definitely don't care about most of this stuff that you know people in forum stress over or other rappers hate on other rappers talk about like fans don't care about that stuff they just want the end result of like how does it make me feel their fans are selfish you know and that's not that's not say that that's all that but like that is yes the art that is necessary like you can't just be a good writer you can't just be good lyrically and you can't only have a good flow you got to have everything you got to have the whole passion you have to be good your Instagram just got to be popular you got to have a good photography but not that you have to have everything but the best have everything yeah they do definitely do the ones who are pop they have everything like but they got the whole package they got a they got a whole machine behind the whole machine but what are you guys gonna get a machine when we're gonna get the machine I have to be our machine yeah like yo there's no way it's been there's no way like yo all these fucking like me to leave the dealership like they want to lock you up to okay minimum six out five out six out of deals not sign us taking away like 70% whatever the fuck you've been taking 50% fuck out of here man they're talking about five six album deals see all that means they think y'all are pretty good and have promise that's so that shows a lot because there's a lot of artists they're just talking about let me get two albums and an option you know what I mean now bro like give us one album deals but they don't want to give us out one album deal like I'm not doing that shit like yo on top of that week we already took care of like the hardest part which is like being able to get a fan base like what more else can you do like yo you know what like what's crazy is like before back in the day they used to sign people and then build their crowd for them now these you have to build your own crowd and then they sign it's like you do the whole work and then the label takes the credit like yes like that's why I'm more into we more into like collaborating with with the label like on a single okay boom let's get the single going you push it we push it like it's mutually it's a partnership rather than okay I'm signing this and you are my fucking master you know what I love is when we're independent we compete against major numbers that's what I'm trying to get numbers let's let's see some of y'all's like basic I think I just had y'all Spotify up let's see yeah like alright these are these are very very solid numbers right here just on this alone now what do y'all do with these numbers like the all so the all approach the all approach anybody for any kind of deals and say hey this is what we got going on and can we get a brand deal can we get a partnership or can we get some kind of option deal distribution what what are you guys using the numbers you have right now like 348,000 monthly listeners you know like that's that's nothing that's needed I'm sure that's been higher at some points I'm sure it's lower at some points like what do you guys look to leverage your current fan base and activity for at the time right now like yo honestly I ain't looking for shit like the only thing that I'm doing right now is scouting all these internet producers so that we can keep getting like a million plays every time we drop a track so there's like three songs that are gonna come out this month and for the rest of the year man you know stop doing like 30 songs coming out and each producer going to be they probably each have like a million listeners you know what I'm saying that's strategy that's how I'm scouting say that strategy again so so it doesn't get missed I'm scouting every single producer who's like they haven't blown up but they're in their pockets they're getting these niche like million monthly listeners like you got their crowds and shit I like watching the only rappers who can rap on EDM and dubstep and hip-hop and all that shit so because of that like variability like they'll listen to majesty majesty is not a beat that like a regular rapper can rap it's like yeah that's why I like with that ability I'm able to hit all these producers up who make like dubstep make like whatever whatever and I'm able to gather their friends to build a crowd like a shepherd you know I'm saying that's dope like that's over these millions like look I'm trying to just like put numbers on the board because like at the end of the day that's really what matters you know what I'm saying and speaking of the leverage like I guess that that is that that's the strategy we are both hitting up all these producers making all these different types of songs so that I'll be able to do whatever the fuck I want you know what I'm saying like I could I'll be able to drop my own projects by myself just like okay this is this is what I do you know I'm saying but it goes back to goes back to what you were saying before about how we talk about what what goats have to do and in the meanwhile what I was doing was just like sharpening my sword being able because when I first started I was like nah I can't rap on it that's too that's too much of a slow tempo that's not hip-hop but then I have to swim that way they have to be like okay go said you one time we were talking like yo if spoons fall on the ground and it makes a rhythmic the rhythmic sound then you should be able to rap to it like rap to anything so since then I was switched up my philosophy okay I try to cast the beat and like whatever it is I try to do something I try to stay me within the beat but like still try to maneuver so it's like oh shit this crowd's gonna like it and it's like so if I have like 30 different different crowds of 10 but that's fucking with me then boom that's on you know saying my philosophy is this you're a good rapper if the beat sucks the beat is trash make it good with your voice like it's your it's your responsibility to turn to turn that into gold that's garbage you gotta turn it into gold so like not DJ Black like he's so full of shit bro it was written had a yo wait what do you say about it it was written nah cuz like yo he's like all ill-matics the only nozz album that has good beats like no that's not true it was written has crazy I definitely think he has some good beats but I don't but as a when you consider how many songs he's played his beats nowhere are nowhere near the level of artist he is I will say that like the top tier when you think about artists they were judging his beats off of them being like whether they hit off you know I'm saying like whether they're but his beats are really artistic you know I'm saying it's like I get artistic stuff too man like I get that stuff too I just don't I just think that they're I just think I like I said I just don't think his for them on a macro when you look at the collective of his of his beats I don't think they're to the level of most artists that have had his level of success and that are his level of a rapper on a commercial level I think that he has a lot of dope beats but nah there there's some where I'm like this beat doesn't do anything for me but what I will say about Nas though like the perfect the perfect example of Nas's career is remember the I am album like that for me was amazing but when you got on the hooks you gotta stop like the hook said nah bro that song with Scorpion I wear who you won't wear it if not stays off all the hooks it just like this is poetry that's for me that's what it is that's what I was about to say I said at the end of the day Nas is better is a is a I would say I would just go to term lyricist a poet like he's he's that he's that alone he's somebody you don't need anything anyway and he just he's just great he's artistic his and I don't think I still think there could have been some more interesting things down there but that's a whole side we literally go off this is about y'all we're gonna we're gonna get back to our we're um one last thing that I want to get to back into that culture thing because I had an interesting conversation I might have been with Russ B actually when we were just talking about Drake and you were talking about something about race earlier just being black in North America earlier I see um and we were talking about how Drake doesn't get to involves in a lot of things when it comes to race on the from a public perspective I don't know what he does behind scenes things like that and we were trying to observe and is it because of his own cultural experience as he felt like this just was going on in America but is it different in Toronto or his background does he not connect with it do you have people like Daniel Caesar who made his comment about black people to chill out so I just want to under like what's a get an understanding of what are those relations like and I guess Montreal or whatever you know about like you know you might be able to speak for Canada at large what's the for there to understand for people in America I mean it's not it's not as bad as as in the States but you definitely go through some shit that I don't agree with what Daniel Caesar said I definitely don't give you that because I go through and we all it's you're black in North America you go through some shit you know saying like I know I'd be talking about this with a lot of people like some white people are like yo like sometimes they're trying to figure out why you guys not like these over but this now my how many times you get pulled over this year like I haven't got put over whatever I've been pulled over like at least seven times in the last five months and just like just like checks and this regulated me and I was the old to pull me over I was with this girl this white girl and she was like we got I'm like the cop was right next to us actually this happened with ghosts to talk about this time I can say so we just right leaving the club this is like maybe three four years ago and driving it in the cop was right right next to us and I look at ghosts I'm like we're about to get pulled out he's gonna stop you don't go behind my car and then he's gonna render place whatever you know ever since I was a kid every time I see people getting pulled out I'm not gonna go to the embarrassment I literally don't have my driver's license but I'm not gonna go get my driver's license I don't want to get pulled over ever you know I mean I'm gonna take the Metro like in which you all our public transportation is actually good so one of the best in the world takes me 20 minutes to get downtown I'm good with that I ain't gonna get pulled over I ain't trying to die that she happens all the time like I spoke about it with a on the bike not long ago they were talking about like oh what type of a you know racial discrimination to be gone through and it's like almost two summers ago I was just walking down the street and then the cops pulled over like pull out guns on me like yo-yo freeze what's up I'm like what happened apparently I was after the description of somebody was stealing cars in the area description and it's like this is a this is the hood like it was the predominantly black area like a lot of people literally say oh yeah is a black guy with the shreds and in the black hoodie I'm like come on I can be anybody but like that shit happens all the time I get pulled over all the time you know when me clustery purse next to me like it's like I said it's not as bad as y'all but yeah cuz y'all be like really dying dying yeah if you are like we have yeah we have a mentality here too but it's nowhere near but also like our population in Canada is 30 million yes like Cali alone it's like 35 yeah that's like a thing to consider as well but yeah good with the Daniel Caesar I didn't really see what he said but and I don't want to talk to you because like he's my boy's brother yeah so but yeah like you're gonna have those perspectives over here because people are cool with people shit yeah but like in Montreal and in Toronto I guess like yo don't know much about the other week these are really multicultural cities where we don't really we're not really about that cultural culture shit we're more about cultural culture sharing so like if white people like Rob dreads or like rock like some other culture shit it's because like over here it just means that they're just participating in what like their friends culture just they're just showing my perspective yeah that's just how it's here that's good to hear because like that's why I wanted to like me you know I know I can only speak but so much for like other places and I know like I don't know everything so that's why I wanted to ask because I've literally had conversations where people have just told me blatantly and these are not people from Canada but something like I don't know like I don't want to just accept that because they'll say oh yeah it's such a melting pot they don't have any kind of racism over there I was like okay I mean that'll be cool that'll be great I just want to make sure I got an understanding so that's even just for me to understand what is like because I have not even been to Canada yet that's probably gonna change a couple of times this year we'll see but cool a small switch up as well because you guys have been super active in the comments I've seen some of those back and forth things you know get a little while whatever but y'all have mentioned some things like one thing that got mentioned was I don't know which one of you guys are writing this at this time but okay okay so you are while and on his behalf talking about one thing was being a I think it was a gym like a basketball coach or a referee or something like that which which one of you guys is a referee or whatever well he's a basketball coach and shit but making his money and shit I'm like I you know what I have to take care of everything else so yeah you can talk about basketball yeah and all like on the side I helped my cousin coach saying that I love basketball you know it's part of the culture and I just I'd be helping them with the coaches out of there so that's why I hate YouTube comments that's one thing I hate so I never like going into YouTube comments so that's why he the whole YouTube shit he take that you take care of them like it was something like I'd be good I'm not worried about like I think I'm blowing up already or I have a lot of views but I'm not tripping like this to maybe sell out or something I'm cool if I if I can just I'm I don't know it was like I'm good already what I'm doing I'm almost content but I do want to blow up okay I can't remember exactly where I was going this like this is the marriage about right like yo music is music like yo I'm not gonna fucking die like I'm wanting to make and like you know saying like like yo rappers become rappers because they want to become rich but after they become rappers this is just this is just my money to flip into other shit and really so for me I'm like yo fuck that shit but I know how to make money in other ways I'm just flipping the real estate into like clothing into whatever I'm saying but I studied the game I know how to make money if this rap shit feels we're still all gonna be eating so it's all good you know I mean like we'll make this music shit hopefully we blow up hopefully we do good I don't plan to fill in anything in life anything that I enter in I'm gonna be the best at you know I'm saying so that's just how I live my life what about trap nation and getting on those websites because I saw some comments where people are like oh man you you pay to get on these things and then you guys said no you don't you can't I already know for a fact that those aren't like I mean I did a I've done interviews even one of my interviews Lilo key Chata I helped him he drove through the point that like no he didn't pay to get on those things but try to describe again for nobody who's heard this before when it comes to trap nation or a lot of these other those type of YouTube pages how does that work this is what I'm gonna say like yo I plan to invest no money in this music shit because like this shit is really not worth investing like well when you have these outlets that that'll get you millions of views and millions of plays you don't have to invest any any money anymore you just make the music get the studio for free just off of our cloud but we have the biggest English rapper name in the city get any studio we want for free record that shit we have an in-house mixer in slash master mastering engineer gets all our shit done that's it you know saying cuz I want to we went the route where we would invest a lot more money than the return that we should get back yeah the first one yeah the first one ever since then I'm like no one we're like yo the money that we gave for people to you know help us out publishing or whatever it is it wasn't worth it at the end of the day it was just like paying people to contact me what if we could just be the direct link you know what I'm saying so it was like finally when we went through and like I said the first one it was really trial and error we're just like I have this freestyle to see what happens we get we get this bread up spinning over here to see if it works and that didn't work and then afterwards now like with this trap nation stuff yeah we're not spending any money come out look look at this shit nowadays blog era is dead fuck complex fuck fader fuck everybody it's dead you know I'm saying now you get all platforms it doesn't have to be a blog it has to be a platform with a large audience the trap nation would happen was we released a song called summer don't go with this la duo producer called tasty treat and their voice with my producer dear Lola so that song like was one of the first releases that trap nation has a label released and it's one of their biggest songs so not any time I want something posted I just hit them up okay have a song that's like dubstep slash trap trap EDM trap can you post it and they will post it hey so what it all comes down to because if you're not going to it come if the basic three currencies right it's relationship yeah money and then the other ones really just show on hustling time and actually happen to content but but really is relationship and money as far as the things that matter most in music when it comes to getting your stuff seen and when you said I'm not spending money you just double down on all these relationships that we even talked about early earlier in the conversation that you look like let's give an example like ten racks right put ten racks in into music you know it's gonna be a slow return I could put ten racks into something else to make like in a week I can see that ten racks into it's a 50 you know I'm saying if I put that in the music it makes no sense like I'm gonna wait a year to get that back fuck that shit you know I'm saying but now not everything's are the positives man like did he did two shows last year like opening for made in T.O. with it or Kelly and shit yeah like yo paid paid five racks like boom boom easy you know I'm saying no investment that's just positive it's like fuck that shit and then once we make that money we flip it into some other shit but it's like like you were saying even with how you either the money or the relationship but at the end of the day it's just a relationship the money is what buys you the either buy you the relationship or the illusion of the relationship but at the end of the day a lot saying so at the end of the day it's all it's all about the relationship if you can make that without the money then obviously that's better but money's what's gonna get you the relationship sometimes but we're not I'm not into the pain for the relationship yeah for the relationship yeah yeah because like yeah we saw what do you mean by paying for the relationship I want to make sure it's clearly understood yeah I'm not like oh here's here's this amount of money and post me on this like that's not that's not the type of shit though it's more like we do the music at the end of the day if the music is good it's gonna work so through the dope music through the through the releases you perform the relationships and then with the relationships we're able to put out what I need to put out on whatever yeah because like look man all these producers that I'm one of the most recent producers their name is a very fury they're they're a duo I like every time they drop a song Skrillex plays their song in the biggest festival 40 people in the fucking festival playing your songs I'm not we're not paying for shit like if I can get that for free why the fuck am I going to like what yeah I'm sure you can give Skrillex whatever amount of money you'll be able to be like okay I'll play your song but rather than Skrillex isn't need exactly like you know what I'm saying so but if we just go yo let's fuck with this producer who fucks Skrillex and then we'll see what happens exactly because they already love his music because he can already rap to dubstep like yeah I'm like he's one of the only rappers who can do it and in the whole world he's one of the only rappers doing it in the whole world see so that's one of the important things that I like to differentiate between because one what you guys are doing is obviously working for you but paying for stuff has obviously worked for a lot of people as well both routes work but what's important is you guys have a philosophy and strategy and you're sticking to it versus keep going back and forth and trying is one little tactic one little tactic and never giving any chance for anything to work out on one direction so you don't know what's working you just see random pops and you're always chasing y'all I found a couple of things that you say okay this pop I like how this move and then it's felt this is gonna be our philosophy and y'all continued it and got better and start and you're seeing the fruits of a strong strategy and that's when so I like that you guys have that versus to me it doesn't matter how people pop like you know what I mean I don't judge people for oh they pop this way or he's a he's a plant or he had a rich mom or like whatever I don't care you know but I hope everybody wins I hope everybody succeeds especially people who are like in communities where they're really put down I want everyone to win I don't care how you just win but also like yo we keep we keep all our options open if we got a paper so shit in the future I'm not gonna use it my own budget but like we've had we've had meetings with Empire and shit and like yo it's getting to a point where they're seeing the stats and they're like yo my money at you so if it's somebody else is giving me money to pump up this music shit I'll use it no saying and that's I'll be watching your videos because you've got all the Facebook ads the marketing shit yeah shit that like your pumping money I'm just like studying this shit because I don't want to pump in money without knowing what I'm getting into so before I get the advance from Empire or whatever I'm gonna be studying my shit so I know where to spend we just don't want to because like I said when we started this it was really just yo me and ghost a couple of other friends like y'all let's try to put some money in this to see where it is but we really came approached it like why we didn't know where to put the money or what to do with it and you know we have to go through trial and error but now it's like yo we're not gonna use we're trying not to use our own bread at all to any of this it's like yo we can make the relationships we can build the relationships and in those relationships get us like people who are willing to put money into it then that's good to study rock a fellow I study Kanye I study whoever always use somebody else that's it you're giving me the money I ain't going to invest there's labels whatever the fuck y'all throw the bread I'll spend your bread I'll get your returns that's no problem got you man I love it took it seriously in 2012 seven years and you guys are where y'all are now and that's not a short term but it's still a long way for y'all to go at the same time I think it's great context appreciate the interview has been a joy I love talking to you guys y'all got some final words I'm gonna show you keep doing your shit yeah all the brandy show the breakdowns analytics and all that shit it's crazy appreciate it appreciate it bro thank you for listening to me to us and you know supporting people were not not super big and popular on the on the way to get in there sure man I just want everybody to get in their pockets tap into it I don't care how you guys win just win man a lot of money out there everybody go yo dog there's so much money in the fucking world you know I'm saying there's trillions of dollars in circulation yeah however you get your money just go and fucking get it and improve your conditions that is all I'm not hating on you if you're that's all I don't like talking shit about artists like if somebody makes a song that I don't like I'm not gonna say anything I'm not gonna say that I that song sucks but that I hate it or anything just not for me it's for the crowd that they're making it I don't have to understand you know I'm saying but I try to keep it open here I try to like things in life it's better to like it's better to enjoy things in life that's it I love it I love my philosophy as well everybody I will put their social medias and all that good stuff up on the screen description below so you if you want to you know check them out follow them check out the music all that good stuff it'll be there for y'all to check out if you like this video go ahead and like button if you like your mouse well share and if you're not subscribed you know what to do hit that subscribe button