 We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These words from the Declaration of Independence are familiar to many of us, and yet it took 143 years for women to get the right to vote and 189 years for Black people to get the right to vote. And still today, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are still only words for many people. Here in Boston, life expectancy varies by 30 years depending on where you live. In Roxbury, with many poor and Black people, life expectancy is 59 years. In the back bay, wealthy and mostly white life expectancy is 91 years. It's tough to have liberty when you are in prison. The United States incarcerates 716 people for every 100,000 people. Our rate of incarceration is more than five times higher than most countries in the world. Millions of people in our country don't have health care, a decent job, good education, a home they can afford, and that makes it pretty hard to pursue happiness. So on this show, you are going to meet people who are making it possible to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. People today who are making the words of the Declaration of Independence come true. Hello. My name is Michael Jacoby Brown. I'm the host of We Hold These Truths, and we're very lucky to have today our guest, Jose Palma, the Massachusetts TPS Committee Coordinator. Jose, welcome. Jose was born in El Salvador, and I wonder if you can tell us a little bit what it was like growing up there and how you came to Massachusetts. Yeah. Thank you, Michael. As always, nice to see you, and nice to see everyone who's going to be watching the video. I grew up in El Salvador. I was born in 1976. Right after I was born in 1980, El Salvador went into a big civil war where my parents who were farmers and were working and know how to work the land were pretty much forced to move from the countryside and move to the city. So I grew up in a city called Usulutan. Growing up there as a refugee is pretty much my parents lost everything starting from scratch. And life was rough, but I think and after my age at this time, I start to believe that sometimes life is training you for what's coming forward. And that's the way I take it. I think it was rough. It was a little bit difficult for some times, but here we are enjoying life with my beautiful kids and what can I say more than that was a training for what was coming. Right. Could you describe how what it was like coming here and how you decided to make the journey and what that was like for you? Yeah, it's a combination. Actually, I was sharing with you that last my mother came. She got a visa like maybe like four years ago. We didn't see each other for a period of time of like 14 years. Then we saw each other and then you know she was able to get a visa. So how was growing up in El Salvador? For example, we used to play just counting the airplanes and dreaming with that opportunity that one day to you know fly in an airplane and you know as close as we can be was just seeing them flying by and counting them playing as a kid like who can see more airplanes. And also growing up in El Salvador during the Civil War where the United States has a lot of influence in what was happening. We also grew up very, some people say American eyes. Yeah, you know like people in El Salvador speak Spanish, but we were listening English music and then you know like receiving also all the time hearing that the United States is that great country where if you can make it, you know you will have an opportunity to you know achieve your dreams and education and different things. So there is a moment when I was growing up that I was like I am 22 years old. If I haven't been able to go to college and if I haven't been able to achieve higher education, how will my three little sister will be able to do it? So and then not seeing any opportunity in El Salvador you know and hearing so much about the United States, I took the decision and I said I will try it and you know the first question many people ask is like why you didn't come with visa for example. But then when you start explaining the process that in order to get a visa if you are let's say from El Salvador you pretty much need to be a millionaire. You need to be a rich person to be able to apply for a visa and get a visa. So I didn't have any other choice but more than just you know coming as many other people come undocumented and doing what anybody around the world will do. Trying to get to that place where you are willing to work hard and hoping that you will achieve your dream. So I decided to take that risk. I crossed Guatemala and then Mexico and then I made it to the United States. It sounds like a three steps easy but there is a lot going on and in between that you know I can go on and on and on for sure but there are experiences that sometimes marks your life. For example one of them is that when we were crossing part of Mexico we were told you know you are coming you hire a coyote and the coyote usually tell you don't worry about it the trip is gonna be easy. We're gonna you know we're gonna go in buses and in some part of depending where we are we may go in you know in an airplane things like that but they don't tell you the difficult part. For example when when we were crossing one part of Mexico I remember like you know it was like midnight they say we're gonna go into that tank and that was like a big tank where I usually explain and that is like this the tanks where people transport gasoline you just see the big tanks running around so I remember that night they said like about midnight they say you guys gonna go inside that tank and we're talking about 125 people fitting within that tank. We went in and they said it's gonna be a short ride yeah that short ride ended up being 22 hours so 22 hours 22 hours with everything about midnight like pretty much people telling you like grab four bottles of water no food no nothing and good luck we will see you on the other side so you know experiences like that is what sometimes make you feel like oh man I'm so lucky that I'm still alive like you know you see on the news or so many people dying and trying different and then there are some other experiences that I can you know I can probably share too and you said you were in the desert in Arizona locked for a while yeah yeah that was another another also another difficult part of the trip that there are some part like especially in my case I I came into the United States crossing the the desert so I remember I I don't know I think you know like I think if I were to be forced to go back to El Salvador and had that opportunity to try it again I probably won't do it I won't do it because it's like it was so hard yeah so when we were ready to cross the border we were in Mexico Coyote said we're gonna walk like 10 hours and we're gonna go to the other side somebody's gonna be waiting for you guys you guys gonna go in a minivan and you guys gonna go to Phoenix Arizona so we start walking 10 hours the middle of the night walking the desert without even like you don't know where you are you just pretty much following the lead so that day we were able to cross the border and we went to the highway ready to be pick up and then a minute a minivan came we went on and the minivan broke down oh man now we have to go back to the desert and wait for another one to come to pick us up so what happened is that never came back and after like two or three days some of us were like especially one of my friend who was traveling with me he was like I'm not dying here I don't care I'm gonna walk to the highway and if I get arrested I don't care I just don't want to die here so um and because this is one of my friends who actually decided to take the trip because he knew I was coming in that trip so I said like I said to myself you know like why would I let him to go alone if something happened eventually his family is gonna be asking me like Jose what happened with my you know my son with my brother and then so we decided to go to the highway and somebody offered us rye and it was an old lady driving a pickup truck and offered us rye so we were unable to go on the car and then drive to Tucson Arizona and then I remember we we got to Tucson Arizona and then the woman was talking to us in English but we didn't speak English I I knew a few words like you know very basic table chair things like that the words that you learn in El Salvador right I was bad at studying anyway in that class teacher was coming here and I was going out the other one thinking like when I would use English I don't need to learn but that day uh I you know I I hoped I knew a little bit more because the woman looked like she wanted to help us but we couldn't understand so she ended up just saying like pretty much like jump off my car and she continued her role and you know we by that time we were like maybe two three days that we haven't eaten just drinking some dirty water from the you know the desert and that we were competing with some cows like who's going to drink that water that day so it was it was hard it was hard so eventually um you know we saw an immigration officer and my friend was like hey there is an immigration office let's go when many other people will run away we actually went to him and say hey can you arrest us we really want to go back to El Salvador it has been so hard that we want to go back so um you know the officer actually was very friendly and and everything and took us to the detention center we ended up in detain in uh Florida in Arizona I spent like 27 days there um after the 27 days I I was advised that I was and you know one of those people that can apply for political asylum and that's how I ended up applying for political asylum and being released and came to Massachusetts actually I came in June 1998 so 23 years ago 23 years ago you were out there in Boston and what and what were you doing then I know now you're the leader of the Massachusetts temporary protective status committee but what was it like when you first came here now that you know like I I always share that I I feel proud of what I have achieved and also about the opportunities and and friends and relationship I have I have gained during my 23 years here I came with a plastic bag with a bunch of paper immigration papers that those are pretty much just telling you when you have to go back to court and probably eventually get deported so when I came I actually my plan was come here for work hard for two years and go back you know like most of the time if you were to ask to an immigrant uh let's say from El Salvador I always say El Salvador because it's where I where I am from and in the community I really know um people will say I am coming here for two years I will work hard get enough money to buy a house maybe a car and then I'm gonna go back no one wants to stay for too long but eventually you get into this trap of like you never make any money because things are so expensive and everything that you ended up here and you know things start getting a little you know taking a different way but when I came I I have done different type of jobs I have done pretty much everything I at the beginning I worked in the construction then I work and I was doing maintenance then I was cleaning buildings in Boston I I have been a truck driver like doing milk delivery delivering all over the place in Massachusetts New Hampshire um I have been also at the same time as I was raising my family of four uh kids born here uh I also have been taking classes um and so that taking classes learning English you know I finish it in a social degree of but illegal dreaming about continuing my education and everything that's how you know like maybe I bought a house in 2006 then we lost it with the whole thing about the economy we lost like maybe like $30,000 there but we bought another house this time this time around a single family home which is a little more safe in a way um so I have my house I have my kids and kids are going to college and everything um and through my education also I have learned and eventually got involved in the community organizing when it comes to community organizing jobs I have done you know organizing to pass the dream act which many people say now DACA that easy but it wasn't that easy uh we want DACA based on organizing and rallying and doing different activities then I have been also lucky enough to help people to apply for documentation funny enough I don't qualify but I have been able to help people to apply for citizenship permanent residency and everything um I have been also I was a political director for three years I actually was part of the political director team for people's action where we were interviewing former candidate Hillary Clinton uh Bernie Sander and all those candidates and then supporting some different issues here in Massachusetts like when we won um earned sick time I was coordinating 37 cities up in the North Shore area uh when we won so many people say nowadays like oh we have earned sick time we raised minimum wage but there is so much of work that we have done and I feel proud of being part of those uh teams but lately I have been kind of like fighting my own fight since in 2001 I was able to get TPS temporary protective status which is an immigration status that it gives you the opportunity to get a work authorization social security driver license but it doesn't give you the opportunity to move forward and apply for permanent residency but that immigration status is actually the key for all the things that I have been able to achieve in a way because I have been able to apply for the job you know take classes but you can't apply for permanent residency but I can't over 20 years you have to every year or so you have to pay how much $400 or more to renew when it has been $485 get fingerprinted to make sure you background checks and cleanest life of anybody in this country that said if you if you commit two misdemeanor you lose TPS and therefore you can get into deportation procedure so TPS has been protecting me since 2001 20 years about 20 years and that was the difficult part when the Trump administration came in power one of the programs he was targeting was TPS and he was pretty much saying you guys have six months prepare your things and go back to your country and that was you know his intention but we kind of like resist and instead of like packing we got organized right after 20 years owning a house having four children being a homeowner like you know most uh I mean most probably aren't homeowners but are working here paying taxes paying the annual $480 fee yeah and how will you pack when your kids don't even know the country you come from you know born here they were all born here like and and and TPS doesn't also also doesn't allow you to travel abroad like you are allowed to live here but you cannot go back to even to your countries and if you want to travel to your country you have to apply for a permit and that costs $360 so it's like asking the US government to allow you to travel to your country and be able to come back and that costs you $360 so if like let's say my wife and I we apply once to go to El Salvador just the permit to be able to travel and come back more than $700 plus if you pay somebody who you know who does your application and everything people are spending more than $1000 just for the permit to travel and then you you know you add everything else but um so in 2017 the Trump administration tried to uh take our TPS but I think many of us have done different things and we have learned different things that we decided to get organized I actually helped to start a group here in Massachusetts and and also I helped to to build something at the national level actually in 2019 I was able to get one year of my regular job to be the national coordinator to lead this effort that now we can say we feel proud of the work because we not only survive the Trump administration intention of kicking us out I mean we are about 400,000 families you know like how can you do that things things like that when people are not asking for anything more than just allow people to continue living here so we were able to survive by using the courts like we saw we saw the government for the way the Trump administration was canceling TPS and then we organized and worked with legislators to to move legislations like HR6 the the Dream and Promise Act which I feel proud to say that at the beginning a stage of that of that legislation is the one I testify in Congress and kind of like justifying why they should they should pass a legislation to provide permanent residency instead of you know kind of like cutting short our dreams and trying to kick us out so now I think we were able to survive the Trump administration through different organizing tools but then you know we and now we continue talking with the Biden administration and the Democratic Party and pretty much pretty much telling them we don't want to continue being protected by TPS we want permanent residency I think we have earned it through everything we have done after over 20 years all your children are here your families here you own a home been paying taxes and everything else for over 20 years so where does it stand right now in terms of being able to become a permanent resident is like if somebody were to ask me right now when will you become permanent residency I don't know I think opportunities to start opening in different ways like for example one probably opportunity in my case will be when my one of my kids turn 21 which is going to happen next year there is pro that there is the possibility that will open one window to do a family petition and eventually my wife and I which are the only two TPS then everyone else well we have my nephew who is not a US citizen he's actually already qualified for permanent residency but the rest of the family US citizen and my wife and I who are they like the one bringing the money to pay the bills are the one at risk of you know like losing our immigration status but if I if I were to say by when maybe through a family petition I will have the opportunity next year but then for everyone else who for the family that don't have kids or are not married with a US citizen or there is no other opportunity people don't know kids are younger you know kids are younger or they don't have kids in some cases pretty much what we know is that for right now we are protected until October 4th if nothing let's say nothing were to happen between now and October 4th but by October 4th people will lose their immigration status that's of this year 2021 yeah 2021 so that's a little bit of disappointment even with the new administration that even with the new administration they came in they have been more friendly we have met with a little more often and talk about the issue actually one of my colleagues another TPS recipient was meeting with the president a few weeks ago to talk about TPA so there are conversations and there is a hope that something will happen in the next a few weeks but a month but right now what we know for sure is that October 4th is the deadline and if nothing were to happen on October 4th close to 300,000 families will be losing their immigration status yeah because all the countries have been able to get another extension but countries like El Salvador which we are close to 200,000 people from El Salvador protected with TPS people from Honduras who are more or less like 50,000 people from Honduras Nicaragua which is a smaller community but you know two or three thousand people and then Nepal with another 15 15 so what could people who are US citizens do to allow you and thousands of other TPS holders to stay in this country after 20 or more years of contributing paying taxes working raising families yeah what what do you think they could do what's your advice to them if if we see the campaign from Massachusetts I think that we need to pressure a little bit we need to pressure a little bit more the Democratic party as a whole because sometimes legislators you have some good legislators and they will try to do as much as they can but there are some other people within the Democratic party who are more conservative they don't want to take you know like the right they don't want to do the right move I think people can continue pushing the Democratic party through their own legislators especially the the federal representation I think we should be people should be pushing a little bit more the federal representation and asking them to take more leadership role within the political party if people have all the family member of friends in other states that's another way also how contacting your family member and friends for them to contact their local federal representation and if people want to get in touch with you what's the best way to do that I know you have a website yeah it would be the best way I think you go go into the website mass tps.com mass tps.com yeah that's the way to go and then they can send us you know message or email uh also on facebook we are on facebook we have a massachusetts tps community uh and facebook so they can send us emails or messages to get in contact and ask any questions and just uh we're almost out of time but for all your from all your organizing do you have any particular you know sort of short advice for people either people in this country and also from other countries about you know what they can do uh to organize themselves for whatever problems they have I mean my advice is like most of the time and this is what I said in a rally last weekend I said usually big corporations and billionaires come together and they see the problem and even if they don't get along they decide to put a few million dollars together to fight and protect their industry or their corporation and I said for for those of us that are no millionaires and are not rich we have the people so we really need to work with people we really need to get together and this is the thing sometimes we have been in the united states specifically people have been trained to one to say we don't have enough we cannot share with everyone but how can that be that the billionaires are getting are making way more money than before but poor people are getting poor no matter where you come from where you black latino asian whatever you come if you are poor you're getting poorer you're getting less money and the other thing in the united states is also always making you afraid of others others mean whatever issue they want to raise even you are afraid they want to make you afraid from terrorists if from those latinos that are coming to steal your jobs always like that because that's the way they they take advantage so I would say we need to talk about issues we need to get together and we need to organize billionaires have the money we got the people you do okay i'll say palma the massachusetts coordinator of the tps committee thanks for being here and we hope you'll stay in touch with us so i'm michael jacoby brown for talking to you today and thanks a lot for tuning in