 Or we jump into that. We do have a few, looks like no announcements, but we do have some working group updates that will go through really quick. It looks like quite a few people have not met yet in January, but there were a few in late December that we have not covered as we've been on hiatus. So the most recent Hyperledger Indie Contributors group met on the 19th of December. Was anyone able to attend this call that would like to give us a quick recap? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we last met in December and talked about some Indie Bezu work. This is proof of concepts being worked on and discussed as the potential next step. For Indie, there's plenty of discussion in the community about this possibility and the best path forward. And there's discussion about having this work be in a separate repo under Indie. And we'll talk more about that next week. We also talked about a bug that was discovered in Plenum that's getting fixed. So yeah, it was a good meeting. Awesome. Thank you, Shar. Looks like the Aries Working Group also met on the 20th. Was anyone able to attend that session? All right. It looks like they were talking about some SDK stuff and the Aries Asian Test Harness. As always, you can click these links. You can go read about yourself and have a lot more details on their pages. Aries Byfold User Group met on the 19th as well. Was anyone able to attend this session? All right. Looks like they had some updates. And we're looking at some of this stuff, including on-on creds in the W3C data format. The Aries Cloud Agent Python User Group met just a couple of days ago. Was anyone able to attend this meeting? Yep, we went over status updates on on-creds RS and on-creds in W3C format. Did peer work? Well, you have a couple of other things. Next call, there will be a roadmap discussion for the year ahead, so that should be interesting. We had two great demos as well. One was on using Acropy with W3C VC Traceability Test Suite, another from Lucas O'Neill with VCGav on the Indorser Service UI. So that was great. All right, awesome. Thank you, Shar. It looks like this one has not met since we did last time. Hyperledger and non-creds met just recently in January. Was anyone able to attend the Hyperledger and non-creds meeting? All right, looks like they were also discussing their roadmap for 2024 and then saw Aries issue credential and present proof attachments were discussing that. So Truster over IP looks like they have not met recently. The governance stack working group to IP meeting actually looks like just happened. Was anyone able to attend this session? All right, looks like they were looking to discuss and vote on the issue requirements guide and set some more goals for this year as well. Sorry, Tim, that's today, actually. That's today. Yes. Stack working groups today. OK, thank you for the correction. If anyone wants to attend that meeting, that is what is on the agenda. Diff.Did.com working group. It looks like they met on December 4. Was anyone able to attend the Diff.Did.com spec working group? All right, looks like they were looking at Diff.Did.com at the IETF and had some to-dos to create a draft for a proper format. I was unable to find information on the Diff.Did.com users group. Does anyone know if they've met recently? All right, we will move along. Interoperability that hasn't met. And I was unable to find information on the W3 standard did working group. Does anyone know if these, they've had a session recently? All right, we will assume not that. That brings us to the end of working group updates unless anyone else has anything to add. We will pass it over to Nancy and Kyle. Thank you both for joining us. Thanks, Tim. And thanks for having us. I'm going to share my screen with some slides and Nancy's going to kick it off. The only quick thing, Tim, just for our group here, asked at the beginning if we could do introductions for new people. I'm just wondering if we want to do that. Absolutely. Yeah, let's take some time for that. Are there any new people on the call who would like to introduce themselves? You can say a little bit about the work you're doing or your interest in the space. So feel free. Now would be a great time. You put his hand up first. Oh, sure. Go ahead, Deepak. It looks like you're still muted if you're talking. Let's see. He should be able to unmute. Let me check. OK. Yeah, Deepak, you should be able to unmute yourself. Let's see. Brett, would you want to? Yeah, sure. Sorry, Deepak. We can't hear you. My name is Brett Carpenter, and I'm the managing partner of KRAGCO, a partner with IBM. And we are focused on a telecommunications architecture and then a high level. And so we're being incubated by the county of Oakland, Michigan at the Shotwell, Gustaf, and Pavilion in Rochester Hills, Michigan. And essentially what my focus is with Blockchain is treating Blockchain as a utility. We are, again, IBM partners with asset management. And so it is my treatment that Blockchain as a utility would be able to create access to those assets within the IBM Maximo environment. And so my business partner invented the causality matrix. And in that, there are unique identifiers and dids that would essentially facilitate that Blockchain component with tablets and phones. And so I found this SIG through David Boswell and asking him questions. I am the hyperledger organizer of Troy, Michigan. Thank you. That's great. Thank you so much for joining us, Brett. We're glad you're here. Thank you. Deepak, are you able to hear us? Is your audio working? If you'd like to type out an introduction, that would be great as well. Or let us know at the end if you're able to come off mute. But unfortunately, we're not. Can you hear me now? Oh, yes. We can hear you now. Yeah. Thank you. I am Deepak Harge. I'm from India. I'm representing IEINWORKS. So we are into the digital credentials and digital identities. So we are working on multiple use cases from National ID to education to agriculture, multiple credentials, issuance, and verification processes. That's a short introduction from my side. Great. Thank you so much, Deepak. We're so glad you're here. Would anybody else like to introduce themselves? Great. Awesome. With that, we'll turn it back to Nancy and Kyle. Thanks, Shar. All right, and I'm just going to share our presentation. In the meantime, I can give a bit of an intro to myself. My name's Nancy Norris. I work for the government of British Columbia in the Ministry of Energy and Minds and Low-Carbon Innovation. And for the past couple of years, I've been leading this project, The Energy and Minds Digital Trust. We're using digital credentials to prove out organizational identity for mines and natural gas operators in the province. And the purpose of the project is to create the digital tools so that operators can prove out their sustainability performance so that we can advance a sustainable economy and also have very high degree of environmental protection in the province. And I'm Kyle Robinson, I'm the Senior Strategic Advisor for BC Digital Trust and Energy Mines Digital Trust. And I've been working on this for about two years, I think a little over two years now. And just working on a lot of the governance pieces for these ecosystems and talking about it with lots of different partners, educating, and getting people on board. Yeah, and providing me with very excellent advice because I am not technical. I have a policy background. I'll start with a territorial acknowledgement. I just wanted to acknowledge that I'm calling in today from the traditional territories of the Lekwungen speaking people, known today as the Esquimalt and Sonkees First Nation. And I'm very grateful to be able to work and live on these lands. I think it's very important to acknowledge the historical long-term connection between the First Nations people and the land. There was this systematic policies of erasure of history of First Nations people in Canada. And so it's important to restore that and acknowledge that historical connection and that exists to this day. So Energy Mines Digital Trust, what we found, what we've heard from energy and mining companies in the province is that they are being pressured more and more to prove out their sustainable performance. In BC, we have very strong laws around environmental protection. And so they are being asked to share their sustainability data with multiple different parties and having to package that data up in sort of bespoke ways, which is cumbersome for them. And as that information has passed from the source of truth, them to all sorts of other parties, there's a risk, is increases that there can be mishandling of the data or misrepresentation and trust is lost. So we started to explore digital trust solutions. And I don't have to explain to this group all about verifiable credentials and which we refer to as digital credentials in this presentation. And the idea that it puts the control in the hands of the holder of the data to be able to share in a way that it's very trustworthy, very protected and the end consumer of that data knows that it hasn't been tampered with. So there's a higher degree of trust in what's being inputted and extracted. So the project is a collaboration between British Columbia, government and all sorts of different association, mining operators, performance certifiers and technology providers. Some of the drivers for the project, particularly for critical raw materials, there's a growing demand, but under investment. And this is because of the environmental impact of the industries that we focus on, natural gas and mining. And there's a lot of perception, some of it, warranted around social and environmental impacts of large mining projects and natural gas projects. And so there's a need for these operators to do a better job of not only improving their sustainability performance year over year, but also being able to articulate that out to the public in a way that's trusted. That leads to the second point around ESG disclosure. So those are frameworks that measure environmental, social and governance performance of various companies. Again, being able to share that information in a way that's trusted is definitely a gap at the moment. There's also increasing regulatory pressure. The United States and the European Union, for example, have enacted all sorts of different very stringent legislation recently around supply chain transparency. And for importers into those economies to be able to prove out that every single actor along the supply chain that resulted in that product, that's entering the market, behaved in a way that was ethical and sustainable, didn't use forced labor, need to disclose carbon emissions but off the way with supply chain, many different pieces of legislation around that from consuming the products. We've also noticed as a lack of technical interoperability between all of these different solutions, so we wanted to focus on the technology that was very, that was open source and had the opportunity to pursue interoperability. And the ultimate goal is to tackle greenwashing. So greenwashing is when companies overstate publicly their sustainability performance. So using technology to be able to allow good operators to prove out their sustainable performance and put more pressure on ones that are greenwashing to not be able to do that anymore. Some of the opportunities that we've seen, so just in terms of business process efficiency, the use of digital credentials has been beneficial to our partners, stakeholder partners. As I was saying before, they have to package up this data. They get tons of requests for it. And yet the moment they're sharing information via PDFs and spreadsheets attach to the email. So it's not secure and it's pretty orders for them. So the use of digital credentials increases the trust and security. And then there's this very interesting mix of privacy and transparency, particularly for the supply chain use case. Actors along supply chain want to be able to disclose certain pieces of information about their sustainability performance, but they don't necessarily want to disclose all information about the transaction that's taken place for commercial sensitivities. So the selective disclosure function of digital credentials is a very interesting and useful way to do that. And I think it's useful functionality for that particular use case. Key terms and concepts, I don't think for this group I need to go into this very deeply. We are using a non-creds as our digital credential, but I noticed in the list of working group meetings that there's work going on for a non-creds with the W3C format. So again, that's sort of our interoperability work that we're continuing with. The digital trust ecosystem, this is how we refer to all of the different entities that are able to exchange data in this way. Traction is the technology that we have built on top of Hyperledger Accapy and Hyperledger Aaron's wallet. Kyle will be able to go into that in much more detail. It enables organizational scaling for identity, for organizations. And then in terms of our governance framework, Kyle's been absolutely instrumental in this work. We've really tried to focus on use cases that have a high degree of pre-existing trust in the non-digital world, like mapping legislative processes. We'll get into the description of the minds permit and the natural gas tenure documents. These are both documents or permissions that the government provides that are the whole process for how and which operators are obtaining these permissions is documented in legislation. So there's already a high degree of trust in governance around these use cases. And those are the ones that we've tried to focus on the most for application of the technology. This is the timeline of the project. So we are entering into our fourth year, I guess, of the project. I've been leading for a couple involved for three years. And the first year was proof of concept. Then we moved into designing, developing traction and designing our initial digital credentials doing a lot of piloting in 2022. This past year, we've moved two of these credentials into production. Very exciting. And we'll be continuing working on a leading project together with the UN and scaling ecosystem. Here's some of our, this is our brag slide. These are some of our achievements. We have a couple of credentials in production now. Six use case participants, many international stakeholders. We do a lot of presentations at various events to educate and get the word out because the technology is still emerging and the way that we're using it is quite innovative. So being able to tell people about our lessons learned and progress is important part of the project. And then, yes, we do have one award. So in terms of strategic alignment, we definitely around this time last year realized that because BC is just one jurisdiction, it's a subnational jurisdiction. So it's great that we are pursuing this work. It's very interesting and useful for operators within the province, but we wanted to make sure that we were not only that we're not working in asylum because the true value of digital truck ecosystems when it's at scale. And for an exporting economy like BC, one of the major benefits is when operators in British Columbia can prove out to international buyers along international supply chains their sustainability performance. So we've been actively aligning ourselves with many different strategic plans and priorities at the provincial level, at the federal level in Canada. There's a critical mineral strategy that we're aligned with. And then globally, we've been working actively with the UN Center for Trade Solicitation and Electronic Business. They are a wing of the UN that focuses on trade standards and they have been actively using, looking into the use of verifiable credentials for supply chain traceability. First in the garment and footwear sector and now through the work that we're doing looking at critical rock material supply chain traceability as well. So the two credentials that we are now in production with, the first is the BC Mines Act permit. So this is a credential that's issued by my ministry and two mining operators, large major mining operators in the province. And it proves out that they are permitted to mine in a certain location as a province. And we consider this one of our foundational credentials that we can continue to scale and offer out to all mines. We have the functionality now to offer it to all mines in the province. The second credential is the toward sustainable mining credential. So this is a pre-existing sustainability performance system that exists, that is held by the Mining Association of Canada. And any mine that wants to be a member of MAC has to undertake the sustainability self-reporting on an annual basis. And every third year they need to have it verified by an accredited auditor such as PWC or a FIROCAM. So we have been, we're now in production with the ability for mining companies to be able to self-assess and create, issue themselves a self-assessed digital credential with all of their TSM scores. We also now have the ability to have one of the certifiers issue a credential to mining companies as mining companies be able to share that proof of that, certified TSM scores with the Mining Association of Canada to meet their annual membership obligations. So these are our current ecosystem partners. You can see that the various credentials that we've talked about are listed here and the technologies that we've been using. I definitely want to call out Northern Block. I've seen that as on the call has been a really incredible partner in this project and multiple different entities in the ecosystem are using the Northern Block orbit solution. So interesting. Is there another one? No, that's this one. Okay, so this is supposed to be that there's supposed to be a comparison between what exists now and what we're looking to the ecosystem expansion. So which is that all of these parties, none of them would be great at. Again, this idea that we're putting in place these building block type credentials and that we want scale to as many lines as possible if you want to use the technology and also expand the number of credentials that are being offered. The interesting thing here is though that many of these flows don't involve the BC government. So even though this is a project that was sort of incubated by us, we're at this point now where there's we kind of, it's going beyond us. It really is now just a collaboration and we are a participant in this broader collaboration. So it's an interesting time for the project for sure. And I will pass it to Kyle to talk more about technology. Thanks, Nancy. So one of the things Nancy mentioned earlier was the need to use open source technology to be interoperable. Some of the patterns that we see with the current use cases are people are using email. And as we all know, email is extremely interoperable. Every organization and person has email in the business community. And they can all send emails to each other no matter whether they're using Microsoft 365 or they're using some other email provider. It's all interoperable using the same protocols and sort of data standards. So following that kind of pattern, we wanted to make sure that this was again open and very interoperable. So we worked with Hyperledger, of course. So we've been involved in Hyperledger working groups using the technology that for a large part has been developed in British Columbia, but other partners as well around the world in that open source community. And then we've worked with some partners such as Northern Block that Nancy mentioned and Matty's on the call here. We've also had early conversations with some other providers and just doing simple sort of tests. The other interesting thing about the open source technology of Hyperledger areas is companies, if they're maybe large enough, they can just sort of do their own thing. They can stand up their own instance if they have that technical capability. There's no sort of lockdown for what people sort of vendor lock-in that anybody is tied to. On the British Columbia side, we use traction. And just to speak a little bit more about that, it is Hyperledger Acapai underneath the covers. And then we've built traction on top of that, which allows us in BC Gov to have a multi-tenancy management experience. So we can have multiple different programs in the British Columbia government to do all kinds of different credentials and use cases, but to have it managed in a reasonable way. So we don't have lots of different instances. A lot of what we do with traction is integration. So there's a lot of API integrations with line of business systems to be able to do that in the mining side for BC government. We have integrated into a system called mine space. It's called, it was lost there for a second. But it's called mine space. So it's a system that the business community is familiar with. They're using it. And then what we did is some minor upgrades to that system to do some API calls into traction to be able to do connections, invitations, issuance. And very soon we're going to be working on some revocation for the issuance of the credentials that we do there. I think that's all there. Just a quick note, I do see some questions in the chat and we will tackle those at the end. So back to you Nancy. Great. So the work that we're doing with the UN is looking basically what we wanted to realize that as a jurisdiction, I mean, not physically small, but small population, often the corner of the world. We don't, you know, we need to make sure that what we're doing is aligned with what's happening on a global level. So we connected with this UN group and have actually now have a project that we're working on with them around the use of verifiable credentials for supply chain tracing. And the thesis here is that there are pockets of data that are held about supply chain with supply chain information throughout all over the globe, you know, by regulators, by governments, by performance certifiers, by the actual supply chain actors themselves, on and on and on. So how do you link that data in a way that doesn't, where everyone is not having to push it to one particular platform? Because that sort of model has been tried where you have one platform and you try and get everyone in your supply chain to push to it. And it's very difficult to scale for multiple different reasons. So this project has a technical side to it which is trying to, or where we are creating protocol for how verifiable credentials can be used to link data between different and enter map of a journey of a product along the supply chain right from the mine site to the consumption point. Actually to where it enters a market, I can say. And we are, the focus for us is on critical raw materials. So I think why, well, right. So yeah, again, some of these motivations. So worlds is facing sustainability challenges, both regulators and markets are responding to them. There's meaningful incentives for sustainable behavior like as I was saying, legislation and consuming economies where you have to be able to prove out supply chain sustainability or else you won't be allowed access to that market. At the same time, there's certain levels of carbon tax that would have to be paid at the border. So that's sort of a negative incentive I guess for lower carbon emissions. And then there's also emerging price premiums or operators that can prove out the sustainability of their goods. So that's a positive thing, but it also encourages more greenwashing. So how do we make sure that or enable tools that allow the incentives to be realized without, and also shine light on the bad actors. So we do think that there's a technology solution that can assist with this issue. And so that is where we're moving, what we're trying to address with this project. Again, yeah, so don't have to go too deeply into this, but these are some of the drivers. Again, I think I've touched on a number of them. There's many platforms which one you choose, you don't. You just choose one that conforms with the transparent protocol. There are a ton of standards out there. So we are also creating a sustainability vocabulary that's specific to critical raw materials with selective disclosure. You don't have to disclose the sensitive information. You only have to disclose what you want. And it's too complex and expensive. That's another thing that we are really trying to address through a UN project, because we want it to be an equitable solution that doesn't just privilege sort of rich nations or larger, more sophisticated operators. Yeah, and again, so this is the protocol that we're developing. We're developing sort of a generic protocol and we're doing an extension, which is more specific to critical raw materials as a big component of the project. And these are the subgroups. And I can address one of the questions from the chat here with the... So we've got the traceability group. We have the sustainability vocabulary mapping. We have a group of lawyers who are going to look at what we come up with and make sure that, well, not make sure, but provide their opinion on the legality of it because it's moving between multiple different jurisdictions. And then we have multiple... We have several different implementations. So we want to be able to test out these deliverables that we're creating along various different supply chains. So the first is Cobalt from the Democratic Republic of Congo. We have a copper implementation, copper that comes from British Columbia, and then a lithium implementation from the Australian. So the Cobalt implementation, the focus is forced labor and how verifiable credentials can be used to tackle... It's very complicated, and I'm not saying that we have the silver bullet for this in any way, but I think that there are going to be ways that the technology can be used in order to have multiple different ways of documenting at a particular moment in time what kind of activity is taking place and being able to not just have a certifier go in and certify that a mining site is legal or is not using forced labor, but actually have laborers on that site also be able to use the technology to have multiple different sources of proof around that. And I'm happy to connect anyone who's interested in more with the lead for that working group. Name is Golda Vela, and she's an active member in the community and she's got some really great ideas around this implementation. So that's the end of the slides. These are additional slides. So that was the end of our presentation, actually. I will stop sharing. So there is some additional slides, but we won't go through those here. There's a video you can watch and that kind of thing. Am I right, Nancy? Yeah, that's right. And I would say also that the UN project is open. It's voluntary. If you have an interest in it, we'd love to have more participants sharing their views and contributing towards the deliverables. So please feel free to reach out and we're happy to connect you with each of the subgroup leads around your particular interest. So was there other questions, Nancy, that you didn't cover? Yeah, there was a question around self-acceptance, which I totally agree, around certification in itself. It's complicated. Just because you have a certifier going in and giving an example of approval, it gets down to trust and truth, I think. And who do you trust and who sort of has the authority to provide the true information and the true data. We've tried really hard to focus on sustainability reporting that has strong pre-existing governance. And if you're interested, you can send your links to the towards-stamble mining protocols. They have, in my opinion, a very strong, robust reporting structure. Agreed that self-assessment is problematic, but every third year they do have a verified auditor that verifies the assessment. So I think it's probably a matter of, and what we've tried to do a lot in the governance documentation is point out exactly what it is that the credential attests to and what it doesn't attest to. I think just being very transparent in that, providing what the information says and what we can't guarantee is the best that we can do given the way that that data is produced. Nancy, actually, Alfonso, I'm going to call out your question here that you sent me directly, but one of the things, Nancy, that I've been working on in the past with Alfonso is an ontology for the Climate Action Special Interest Group, an international accounting. And so one of the things that you mentioned was the sustainability vocabulary on the UN side. So can you maybe explain just a little bit more about that specific vocabulary? Sure. So it's still in the works, but basically it's going to be two pieces. It's basically a mapping exercise. There's so many different sustainability frameworks out there. For example, there's the ISSB, which is going to get into alphabet soup too. I apologize. There's so many acronyms. So there's many different ways of measuring ESG performance. There's also a ton of regulation in each jurisdiction. How do these all map to each other? And what are the key pieces of information that are mining operators being asked for from the smelter that's one step along the supply chain from them? And then the smelter, what kind of sustainability information are they being asked for from the processor and then the manufacturer and then the assembly point? So we're really trying to dig into all of those different supply chain actors, get very practical, like go talk to them, see what kind of information that they're being asked for from the one stage downstream from them. And then at the same time, also having a vocabulary on a GitHub where we do a bit of mapping between the most sort of recognized and bought into, I guess, ESG framework, which is the ISSB, and mapping that to some of the more specific industry standards like the towards sustainable mining standard like Irma, which are more specific to the mining industry. So that, and I'd have to get my co-editor Steve to come on and explain the technical side of it a little bit more. But really what we want to be able to have is verifiable credential schemas that where you're able to actually link and have make meaning of what it is that's in the credential. If that product has a link to a credential that has a mine site, their original material came from a mine site that has TSM certification. Well, what does that mean? Not everyone's going to know what that means. But at least if it's linked, if there's a place where there's a mapping that's been done and that there's actually some coding attached to it, that there's an ability for a machine-readable ability to take you to a UN approved vocabulary for these pieces for all of these different types of measurements. I don't know if I've explained that well. It's sort of newly thinking and it's always evolving. I just had a conversation with my co-editor yesterday about this. Yes, you have. Thank you. Thank you very much, Nancy. We will contact you. The we means the climate action and accounting sake of hyperledger with the standards working group. Because we would like to test our ontology with the work of mapping that you're doing. Wonderful. And see what synergies we can find. Thank you. We'll contact you directly. Okay. So, Kyle. Great. Okay. Yeah. I mean, we know that there's a lot of other work going on, similar work. We do not want to reinvent the wheel. If you have something that's already sort of a few steps down the path on this, we would love to be able to... Kyle is partly responsible also for that. For that work. Yeah. So, I'll put my email in. I'll send you my email and we'll work together. Thank you. Thanks. Nancy, do you see the other question from Deepak? Oh, okay. I'll let you do that. Carbon credits? Oh, yeah. Okay. So, good question, Deepak. We have really tried to stay away from this using verifiable credentials as monetizing, like having any kind of monetary value. We're not really looking at tokens. I think that that's sort of a... Like a terminology that's used for a number of different reasons. But for scope is one of them. We're trying to focus on issuing credentials that are proving out identity factors about an organization. And that sort of... I think it's because the model for verifiable credentials has been around individual identity. We're kind of taking a leap just by moving it to organizational identity, moving another leap to having them as monetized tokens. It seemed like it was a leap too far. But that's really why we focused on doing it. And the difference had its hand up. So, please go ahead. Somebody raised my hand for me. But I'm... Some of the problems you already talked about, you know, the fact that people are doing self-attestation, which has been the major problem with ESG and has given it a bad name because several indexes use corporate communications or a scraping of corporate communications to create the index. So the ontology should really sort of measurable metrics attached to ontology should make that a little less, that kind of leveraging things a little less. But nonetheless, we have problems with that because... And better not even talk about carbon credits, which are obviously... There are a lot of problems with it. Because what a carbon sinks may not be permanent. There are many, many other reasons for it. In fact, do you attach such evidence to starting a mining operation? For example, if I'm starting a strip mine, then obviously I'm going to clear a forest. Or, you know, normally they are in remote areas and Canada's North countries are probably one of the greatest, biggest forests in the world. Nobody really knows about that, but it's probably almost as big as the Amazon or even bigger. And so, you know, do you have such... At least certain attestations in this... When you give the... I mean, usually it's a permit-driven process is what I hear, but how are the permits contingent upon all these things? The permits are... I mean, who would have thought that permit documents could be so fascinating? They're somewhere between 10 and 20 pages long, and they contain all of these different conditions as the mine evolves. So, and the way the conditions work is that they basically... are the application of all sorts of different laws, related laws, and how that mining company has to behave according to deforestation regulations, how they have to behave in terms of their relationship with First Nations in the area, how they have to behave all the way down to, like, if they're building a bridge over a river, how, like, what the width of the bridge and length of it has to be in order to not damage biodiversity in certain areas. Not saying that it's foolproof, and it's something that we need to... that we are continually working on to make it more and more robust. Are you going into seabed mining also? Oh, I don't know about that. I don't think so. I haven't heard about that in seabed mining. Well, I mean, they are starting already, at least in Northern seas, Norwegians and so on, but I don't know what nodules exist off the coast of Canada on the Pacific side. Yeah, neither do I. Well, it's coming. Brett should take over now. So with everything said in mining, I think there is a use case for enterprise asset management, and there are a lot of platforms for that. There are a lot of engineers that offer ESA. What our specific focus is here at the Shotwell-Gustbin pavilion is autonomous embedded solutions. So an interesting keynote just to remember Kragkow by or to remember myself by is that this is where the self-driving car started. This is actually the point of the self-driving car. And so we have autonomous systems that are not self-driving car. It's just everything that's automated. Everything that's automated. And by the way, we are the home of automation here in Oakland County. Sorry to brag in both so much. But I guess to backtrack, I really think that asset management that is being utilized by telephones, cellular telephones and tablets and maybe even smart glasses could be a functionality that would prove useful to the mining operations. To give for that asset management to be able to give a linkage to the employee with a blockchain solution, which our solutions would be autonomous through the dits. And so I'm just wondering how what your treatment is on on what I'm saying. That's it's interesting. One of the things that I was going to say earlier, but didn't find a good spot for it was what we're doing is we're kind of developing two parallel ecosystems in a sense. So a lot of the work that we've done in the past has been enterprise focused. So each on it on that diagram where we've got the logos, each one of those is representing a wallet that holds things, right? And digital credentials is is one of those things. And then there's transactions that can happen between those wallets to share some of those digital credentials. And what those digital credentials contain can be anything from, you know, an actual like VLE I, you know, we're having some conversations with life to have some sort of, you know, trust and structure around what the identity of that organization is. Then there's permits and licenses and reports and you're, you know, multiple yearly reports and all these kinds of things, right? That's that management, right? Yeah. And then there's a second sort of associated or linked ecosystem, which is into the supply chain and the traceability, right? Correct. And so that takes on a little bit of a different shape, right? So you've got your, I'm, you know, if you look at it from a personal perspective, I've got my wallet, you know, I've got my cards in it. And that's my representation of me. But then there's the transactions that I do out with the world. Right. And, you know, that, you know, without getting into the tokens and that kind of thing, you could be like, okay, I'm going to give this money here. And then, you know, how it, how it just kind of makes its way through a traceability system, right? You know, that's sort of a second, you know, sort of. Yeah. This is that this dimension. Yeah. This exact context has been my focus since 2016. Yeah. And so what we're doing is we're using the hyper legiaries wallet and protocols to do the, the kind of storage of that. There's a number of different types of credentials. So we've mentioned a non creds. There's W3C. There's more credential types sort of emerging as well. And it's some indicios on this call here and they've done some work with the open ID type of credentials. And I'm still learning about that one. It's not something we're using quite yet, but, you know, this is how that, that thing is growing. And then the other important thing with hyper legiaries is the messaging component to be able to message from organization to organization in a, in a trusted way. And one of the things that we want to prove up to is autonomous embedded systems for notification systems in the, in the IBM maximum environment. Maybe, maybe that could be something with, with our artificial intelligence that we could integrate into what you're saying. It's just my, it's my thinking. Interesting. Okay. Are there any other questions? It looks like we're very close to time. So I will actually turn it back to Tim or Char. And be awesome. No, you are correct. We have about a minute left. So thank you all for coming. Kyle or Nancy, if you could email. Are you comfortable sharing the slides from your presentation? I think sure you have them. All right. Yes. I think I received them from Emma or I'm about to. So I will post those on the meeting page so that anyone else can, can look at them and or watch the recording as well. So. Perfect. Well, thank you. And thank you everyone for coming. We will see you in a couple of weeks. Thank you so much. Thanks for a great presentation. Thank you.