 Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Critical Conversations, where we talk about heart topic issues related to American Muslims and other targeted communities. Today we will talk about the upcoming Women's March, which is scheduled for Saturday, January 19th. There will be a march in D.C., the National March, and then there will be sister marches across the country. To give us details about our local march here in Northampton and also address some of the controversy that's been surrounding the national women's leadership, we have in our studio today Rachel Meiery. Rachel is the co-founder of Pioneer Valley Women's March and she will be the one leading and directing the local effort here in Northampton this year. Rachel, thank you so much for being here. It's good to be here Melaka. Thank you. So Rachel, this will be your third year organizing this march, right? Could you talk a little bit about some of the goals that you have in mind for this particular march and how they've evolved over the past two years? Yeah, so we really, we check on each year to see if we want to have a march and we ask the community. And what we found is people really need to feel, need to recharge and kind of see each other again and also kind of recommit to our movement. There's so many distractions going on. So I would say that. I think we also need to celebrate our wins. I don't think women take time enough to celebrate our successes and we've had an incredible year for women and that's why our theme, we love the theme women's wave. I also think, you know, the other R word is remind. We need to remind the powers that be, that we're here and we're not going anywhere. I think, I anticipate there'll be a backlash because of our successes. I think in fact a sign of our success is backlashes against women and vulnerable communities. And we need to be ready for it. Absolutely. Yeah. So wonderful. And so the theme of the march is the wave, the women's wave, right? So and how much of this theme, so how much does the local march sort of draw from the national march in terms of identifying the theme and the agenda for the march? Right. So we choose our own themes. We're locally led and locally organized. We're kind of independent from the organization but they have suggested themes and so many of the sister marches really, that really struck a chord with them, the idea and the imagery of a women's wave. So we went with that. Sure. That's wonderful. And so what do you think feels differently about this year's marches compared to previous marches? Yeah. So I've seen a difference. I think that in general, folks are kind of better educated and know the lay out of the land and the facts. And so what they're really looking for is less talk and more both actionable steps but also something deeper, something that's not, can't be answered at the ballot box, a real deep soul reconnection with each other because it's been a hard two years. It really has been, yes. And thank you so much for bringing us all together for that mobilization and recharging us. My pleasure. You know, and you've been doing this in Northampton for the past two years and Northampton and Amherst and surrounding areas, they considered the bastions of progressive thought and movement and activism. And so I was wondering, what are some of the opportunities and challenges of organizing a march in this particular geographic area? Yeah. So I get on these calls and networks with other sister marches and I always feel really lucky. It's a nice place to organize this kind of event. We have a fantastic, supportive community and that's great. I think what we're challenged by and what our goals, the Pioneer Valley Women's March Gold this year is to really broaden our reach and make more connections into our larger community. And we're so physically spread out here and we need to really start trying to challenge that and become a more unified voice. I think the other challenge is a blue state challenge. We live in a blue state and it can kind of lend to this complacency thinking we're okay. And I think to some extent, especially Northampton is padded from some of the repercussions of the Trump agenda. So to keep a sense of urgency and we are a blue state but we haven't been that progressive. I think the narrative is sometimes false. It's great to have these new leaders from Western Mass but it's been very paltry over the years. Of course. Yeah. I think that's a challenge. And I think a challenge all movements are facing or something we all need to work on is really being inclusive in language and agenda for the trans community and the non-gender conforming community. Absolutely. Absolutely. And we feel like there's again Massachusetts is so progressive. It's a blue state and we are sort of shielded from some of the repercussions that are happening in other parts of the country. And yet, according to Southern Poverty Law Center and other organizations, Watch Dogs, that monitor hate crimes, we've had our share of hate crimes. And so just to sort of bring everybody together. And I love what you said about just to sort of get us out of our complacency and sort of feel the urgency of the moment is really important. So thank you for that. And well, Rachel, you know, there's been a lot of controversy right now that has roiled the national women's leadership and the national women's march. And I would love to hear your thoughts about the controversy, how what your approach to it is. And just for our viewers who don't know too much about the controversy, I'll just give a brief overview. But I would love for you to sort of, you know, fill in the details and give your own perspective as I even describe it because there's so many different interpretations of what happened and what's happening. And so just broadly, yes, I mean, the national women's leadership has been accused of anti-Semitism. And so I think it sort of started about eight or 10 months ago when one of the leaders, Tamika Mallory, attended an annual conference put together by the nation of Islam. And she has longstanding ties with the movement because of the support that they provided her son when his father was murdered 14 or 17 years ago. So she was at this conference and she was not there as a speaker, but as a participant and Louis Farahan, the leader of nation of Islam, was there. And as we all know, Louis Farahan has a long history of making very vile, very reprehensible anti-Semitic comments. And he did so again at this particular conference. And so when people found out that she was there, there were calls for her to denounce Louis Farahan. And there were also calls sort of made to Linda Sarsor, who's another leader of the Women's March, to also denounce Louis Farahan. And while they didn't denounce the man, they did sort of denounce some of his actions and his words. And I'll just sort of quote, like we did a quote from their apology. And so this is what they came out with. They had a very long statement, but just excerpts. We have been crystal clear in both of our statements that we reject anti-Semitism and all forms of racism. We have been clear that Minister Farahan has said hateful and hurtful things and that he does not align with our unity principles of the Women's March that were created by women of color. And then there was another point in which they also talked about, there was another apology that they issued. And they said, every member of our movement matters to us, including our incredible Jewish and LGBTQ members. We are deeply sorry for the harm we have caused, but we see you, we love you and we are fighting with you. And since all of this, they've also, I think, revised the unity principles to include anti-Semitism explicitly as something that needs to be addressed and wasn't there to begin with, but since then they've done that. So anyway, so with that, I mean, I would love to hear your take, but also the things or that you would like to add to my description. That would be great. Yeah. And to say, you know, they, they reached out actually to the sister marches for help with when they revamped the unity principles, because I think they knew that they needed a wider perspective. And this was after all of this happened. Yes. Yeah. I know there's so much to unpack here and it brings up so many trigger points. So, you know, my take is that every movement makes mistakes, especially very large ones and has missteps. And so what's important is, you know, that we continue continually try to do better and that we, you know, people are held accountable. Sure. And I do feel like I am, I'm happy that the I think they're moving in the right direction, the women's, the national women's leadership with their statement, their public statements and their apologies and their revamping of their material. And, you know, I think we all need to, I would like to at the Pioneer Valley Women's March really look at how to form a more inclusive, just organizational culture. And I think that they're striving for that now. OK. And so, I mean, do you think that they could have done more in terms of, you know, their response to what happened? Yeah. I think, you know, I think my heart kind of goes out to both the Jewish communities and communities of color, because I think there is a lot of collective trauma at play that has informed some of at least what's, what's been, how it's been handled and how it's been said. And we should also note that there's been, you know, a concerted effort by right wing forces to exploit these fault lines and that that has led to lots of confusion and misinformation. But I think that they have apologized for their hurt. And I have to say, I see a little bit of a double standard. I think there's historically a mistrust of women of color as leaders. And I think I've heard white people make microaggressions and then apologize for it. And we were kind of implored to move on. And I think that's not happening here in the same way. I see. I see. And so in terms of, you know, there's been this and it's funny, you know, this whole controversy, the way that has been has come up now against these women leaders who are women of color, because I think when the women's movement first started, it was also there were allegations against it about being completely very white and not including more, you know, women of color in its sort of leadership. And then they were brought in and they came up with the unity principles. And now, again, there's this, you know, there's some kind of a divide that's happening. And I almost feel like there's there's also an opportunity in this crisis because as you said, it just goes to show how, you know, messy coalitions can be how difficult they can be. But they can also provide opportunities for greater conversations, very difficult conversations, but conversations that need to be had. And and I don't think anybody, any of us can say that our growth is complete or that we are completely prejudice free. And, you know, whoever we are, whether we're, you know, just regular people or leaders, you know, leading a movement and stuff. So I appreciate your sort of comments. Yeah, I think that, you know, intersectional movements are messy and they're completely necessary. And they've been what's missing for us making real change in our country. So we have to learn to have these conversations and work with it. There's a great quote from Rebecca Tracer I found yesterday about about intersectional women's movements. And this is what she say, she says, to campaign on behalf of just over half of the population is by definition an unwieldy enterprise, one that tries to represent fundamentally conflicting interests, divergent perspectives and people from varied backgrounds, who have lots of good reasons to distrust, resent and disagree with one another. The immensity and the diversity of the women's movement has always been used against it by those who fear its potential power. Right, right, right. And you have to wonder about like what these internal divisions mean for people who can't wait to see this movement break apart and everything. And so, right, the classic cat fight. I do think there's people and we've discussed this, you know, who take special delight in these kinds of infighting and love to blow them up. I think they're uncomfortable with women like anything. I think it challenges the patriarchal order of things. And so they kind of see this as proof that women can't lead. I also think that I, myself included, we've all gotten used to kind of hyper critically, you know, looking at women more critically. Women leaders are criticized from their suits to their shoes. And I do it too. And I don't see that kind of being put under the microscope that other, you know, in groups that aren't women led, especially women of color. And we just need to be mindful of that. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, even right now with Elizabeth Warren, you know, seemingly about to sort of, you know, announce a candidacy and everything. And people were comparing her to Hillary Clinton, not any of the other candidates and not around her policy positions, but about Hillary likeability and sort of again, comparing her to Hillary Clinton and, you know, things that other male candidates would never be subjected to. So we see that kind of double standard, that misogyny at play. And I'm sure as more women, you know, participate in politics as they had, you know, over the last election cycle, even the midterms and stuff. I'm, you know, I fear they will see more of it. But I think it will also allow for more deeper reflection of where we are as a society when it comes to women. So yes, but Rachel, I really appreciate you sort of addressing that larger controversy. But, you know, there's still a lot of women here in our area and a lot of, you know, women across the country who because of this, you know, accusations of antisemitism are very reluctant to participate even in our local march here. You know, and I've heard from friends who are very apprehensive and they feel like if they attend the local march, they'll actually be endorsing, you know, what's sort of going on, you know, sort of at the national level. What would you say to alleviate their concerns? And how would you respond to that? Yeah, I mean, I think this is, you know, we need to have these tough conversations. And I think I would I would like to plan to have them after the march because what I would really say is this is our movement. This is your movement. This is our march. This is your march. Millions of women did not march in 2017 because of four people on top. It was thousands of local leaders, some first time women leaders who took to the streets. And so I think it's always been a bottom up movement. And I think that we all have ownership in that and it's our movement. And if we don't like where it's going, it's time for us to kind of reclaim it and recommit to working through it. Sure. Sure. And have you had have you personally heard of concerns about, like, you know, people participating in our march in Northampton? I've heard concerns. Yes. And I, you know, and I encourage anyone to reach out and I can talk more in depth with them about those concerns. Sure. But largely, I think people know that we're really, you know, we're just a grassroots community group. And that we set our own tone and and we really reflect the community that we're in. Of course, of course. And I feel I feel like the local leaders and their integrity and their reputations and, you know, all that they have stood for, I feel like speaks for itself. It's you and Lindsay Sabadosa, right? Who sort of started this whole. Yeah, she's a little busy these days. Yes, she is because we're so excited to have her as a representative. And so will she be at the march? Will she be speaking at the march? She will, yes. That's wonderful. And because, as you said and mentioned earlier, we need to celebrate our successes. And I remember, I mean, I think it was two years ago when, you know, Lindsay and others had sort of organized this march. And there was no hint of her ever being, you know, elected to public office, even though she'd worked so hard so many years. And now I feel like because of the impetus, because of the, you know, sort of the spirit and the energy that these local marches have provided, we've had a record number of women here just in our region feeling like they have the support behind them to be able to contest these elections. It's so exciting. Yeah. I do think, you know, I do think nationally and as you mentioned earlier, and even in our own community communities, it's a dangerous and scary time for the Jewish community, for communities of color. And I would really like us to tackle these conversations and become stronger because we need to really unify and protect those who are in the crosshairs of white nationalism and white supremacy. And I think our community could really do that. Absolutely. And I mean, especially against the Jewish community, there's been such an uptick of hate, hate, you know, a bias related incidents and hate crimes. And I mean, after what happened in Pittsburgh, I mean, just that fear and the trauma is just so real. And it's so and something that I feel like we should all be working in collaboration. I mean, because, you know, sometimes people feel, oh, but the Jewish community is so integrated, you know, I'm from Pakistan. I grew up there and I came here as, you know, as an adult. And so, you know, feel like an immigrant, like I am an immigrant and stuff. But and I always had this notion that, oh, the Jewish community, yes, they're not the dominant, you know, the Christian majority, but it's just very well integrated. And I had no idea how vulnerable they feel and how vulnerable they are. And so I feel like it's incumbent upon all of us to sort of recognize that and try and address that. Right. And I think what would serve the Jewish community and all communities is an intersectional movement. And so I think we should really see this as an opportunity to have these critical conversations, these courageous conversations. And women have always had to be moral leaders. And this is one way we can model with this crisis, this opportunity to really talk about and really alter what's and not repeat bad patterns from the past. Absolutely. Well, you know, since this sort of internal rift began, you know, in the National Women's March, there are there is now another simultaneous march that will take place in New York City, which is sort of organized by March on and their focus for these for this year, particularly, is going to be anti-semitism. And they're going to sort of focus on bad and they're going to be sort of simultaneous marches in, I think, a few other cities as well. Do you think that is what is your response to that? I mean, do you think that's going to help or sort of bring anti-semitism back into the spotlight? Or do you think that's going to sort of detract from the larger movement? You know, I don't think talking about anti-semitism is dividing the movement. I think it will make it stronger. And I would say, which march to attend? Yes. Any, either, all. We need to get out there because when we show up together in any form, we're kind of harnessing our collective power. And that is when the change can happen. That is brilliant. That's wonderful. So, Rachel, we only have a few minutes left. So I would love for you to give us some details about the march that's happening on January 19th in Northampton and where people can get more information. And yes, so we'd love to know more. You know, so I, as I said, you know, we are we're independent from any national organization and we are our own thing. And so we're excited to serve our community. So we will be gathering at Sheldon Field at we'll be leaving Sheldon Field at noon to march to City Hall, marching is my favorite part. We will have a brief rally because it was cold. And then this, you know, we are having this fantastic community activist fair at First Churches to really give people some actual next steps and to expose them to what's going on in our wider community. And you have local non-profits sort of teaching there. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And they'll be tabling. It's going to be very dynamic. We had it last year, but smaller this year. We really put an emphasis on it because we think it's needed. Absolutely. Yeah. So we can go to Pioneer Valley Women's March, one word, org of our website or just go to Facebook where the event page is under PV Women's March, the event page for the March and Rally and an event page for the community activist fair will be there. And of course, reach out to me to meet through, you know, that way with any or any of us at the Women's March through that venue. And we can talk over any concerns. Yeah. And I'd love to end on this. So it's MLK weekend. Yes. You're aware. Yes. It brings a lot of heart to the March. And I just wanted to share this. Coretta Scott King quote, because I think it's relevant here. Women, if the soul of the nation is to be saved, I believe that you must become its soul. Oh, that is so beautiful. Thank you so much for ending on such a poignant note. And we wish you all the best for this march. And we hope that there's a huge turnout and that people feel revived and re-energized and, you know, and you meet the goal that you've been striving for. So thank you so much for coming, Rachel. It was a delight to have you. And let's hope that the weather cooperates as well. My pleasure, Melaka. Thank you so much. I'll have snow boots. So yeah. Thank you. That's wonderful. Well, thank you all so much for watching. Until next time, this is your host, Mehlaka Samdani.