 Hello, and how are you doing? Welcome to Hibachi Talk. Going to the techs out here, I'm here with my good old buddy, Andrew, the security guy. Hey, everybody. He's finally back in the house for once in a while, anyway, and we have a great guest today. We have Stephen Covey, Stephen M.R. Covey, the author of this fantastic book, The Speed of Trust. If you haven't read this book, look at all the little pegs in here. It's awesome. Stephen, thank you so much for coming on our show. Absolutely. Gordon. I would appreciate it. Thank you. You're going to set our show up at the whole match and a half, at least. Anyway, thanks so much for joining us. Please grab yourself a libation, sit down and join us, be the fly on the wall, and watch what's going on. Anyway, we typically ask all of our guests, no matter who you are, where you went to school. Where did you grow up? What's the little background of who you are? Yeah. Well, I went to school in Utah, Provo High School, and VYU, and then Harvard Business School. All right. What you'll find interesting is I actually spent one year going to school at Laie Elementary School. Oh, yeah. Beautiful. Really? Yeah. Yeah. When I was in second grade. See, that's awesome. See, that's something you never would have guessed. Yeah. Yeah. And you'll be crushed if you go up. There's a hotel up there now. Is that right? Best Western. It took place in Laie. Over around my school. The school's there. You have to swing by there if you're going north shore. But that makes you a local boy. Well, kind of. Yeah, absolutely. I don't have to claim it. I don't know if you'll claim me. Of course. That's terrific. That's terrific. Anyway, I had the pleasure of seeing your dad many decades ago presenting, you know, magnificent man. Just magnificent. I learned a lot from him. And my success is based on a lot of the things that he taught me when he was there. So it's great. And then your book is terrific. I mean, I just can't. Be honest with you. I didn't read it until you knew you were coming on the show. But boy, I'll tell you. I got into it big time. And I got to say one thing. We'll get into your commentary, but I've been doing work with Andrew for decades. And I never realized that all my work I do with him is based on one thing. Trust. Yeah. Trust. We do stuff without contracts. Yeah. We just do it. Because you trust each other. We trust each other. So with that, let's talk about you. You have the thing with the five waves of trust. So what are the five waves of trust? Yeah. Well, the whole idea is that kind of trust is built and sustained, grows from the inside out. Okay. So I use the metaphor, the ripple effect, you know, water, drop of water comes down, the ripples, the waves go out. The first wave where it all begins is with ourselves. Self-trust. Okay. Because think about it. If we don't trust ourselves, how are we going to build trust with other people? It's hard. At some point, that distrust of self will leak out, bleed out into the relationship. But then from ourself, it moves out into our relationships. Now you build trust one-on-one. It's just like you, Gordon, working with Andrew. You know, you trust yourself. You then build trust with each other. The relationship, you build a relationship of trust. Right. And that's the second wave, the relationship trust. It then kind of ripples out again using the wave metaphor. But the third wave, which is now our team, our group, what we might call our organizational trust. And if I'm the leader of a company, it could be the whole company, but I could be the leader of a team. It could be my team. So whatever is kind of the team, the next level, the next entity that ripples out. And from there, it ripples out yet again to our stakeholders. I call it market trust. And that's trust with our customers and partners, suppliers, distributors. And from there, it ripples out yet again into all of society, societal trust. And then that's building trust in the community, trust in the broader stakeholders outside of us. And my main point is that, look, if you want to kind of diagnose something, the best way to diagnose is you start at the outside and you move in. Right. You look at society and the market and the organization. That helps us diagnose something. When it comes to trust, if I want to develop it, transform with trust, I start at the inside and they move out. So rather than looking at everyone else and saying, you know what, I can't trust them, that might be true, but how are we going to change it? I've got to look in the mirror and start, do I trust myself? Do I give to my team a leader they can trust? And then let that ripple out from yourself to your relationships, to your team, to your group, to the market, to the society. So diagnose from the outside in, but develop, change, transform from the inside out. That's how trust works. It's an inside-out process. So you think from a business perspective, and then we're going to pick on your company just because we do work. And I'll use Brian Malasek who's been another guest on our show, whose company I do work with. And again, I took contracts with this guy because it's all based on trust. But you know what? His crew and your wife's in charge of your company. When your wife's crew is on the job, I trust them. Sure. It's the crew. It's there. I just know I can trust that they will do what they say they're going to do. I'll give you an interesting thing. So we had our quarterly meeting yesterday, and we're big on openness. We're big on trust. Our attractions, you know, there's a trusted room. We can share the hard problems that we've got to work on. There's all these things to work on. You've got to be honest and you've got to trust people to share. And we took the test yesterday. We tested ourselves on these hundred points. Yes. I said, you guys are going to love this. And everybody was like, wow, they didn't really score as well as they thought. So we've all got some gaps that we can work on, which was great. Because there's also tools for ways to help improve. And it's going to start there. I love it. Absolutely. See, I kind of, we all intuitively know that trust matters. But what you two described at the outset, when you said, hey, I trust Andrew. We can work together. I never wrote it down. That's right. But you can feel it, right? Sure. Trust. You know it when you feel it. And what you feel is confidence rather than suspicion. But I call it the high trust dividend, as opposed to the low trust tax. Okay. See, when people don't trust each other, everything takes you longer and everything costs you more. Because you now got to take all these steps to, you know, to compensate for that lack of trust. You got to check. You got to verify. You got to validate. You got to question. You got to, you're certainly not. Nobody wants to do that. What's the agenda? So that contract, you not only have the contact, but it's this thick. The less trust, the thicker the contract. Sure. That's very good. Oh, I like that. It takes you longer to question more. That's why I call it tax. That's a tax. It is very real. I've never thought of it that way. It's very real. But the goodness of the dividend is equally real. When there's high trust in the relationship or on the team, in the company, in the culture with the customer, when there's high trust, the speed goes up with it. Everything happens faster. You're so right. And the cost comes down. It costs you less. And then that is a dividend, a high trust dividend. It's that simple. So why do we not know this? We all kind of know that trust matters, but we never kind of put it in economic terms. Yeah. What I tried to do with speed or trust was to put trust in financial terms, that it's not just social, it's financial. It affects the speed at which we can move and the cost of everything. And when there's high trust, it's a dividend, when there's low trust, it's a tax. And to kind of have that paradigm and let people see it maybe for the first time and to quantify it. And then kind of the second big thing is that it's learnable. We can move the needle on it. It's not just something you either have or you don't. And that whole five waves is saying, look, you start and you go inside out, starting with ourselves. And so one of the things in the book was, you know, Warren Buffett, how many deals he put, a billion-dollar deals together in 30 days. Absolutely. Based on trust. In fact, I've been with a couple of the CEOs that he's done these deals with. And they said it's amazing. Number one was Grady Rogier, McClain, $23 billion company. So a huge company. The deal takes place on a single, after one meeting. One meeting. On a single handshake. That's a B. B, by the way, folks. So they have one meeting of two hours. They shake hands. 29 days later, they have their money. They did no traditional due diligence. Why? Because they started with trust. You know, Buffett himself is so credible and trusted. It's like a currency for him. Yes. He's got a reputation that precedes him. Right. Just like you kind of said, when I deal with Andrew and his team, I know that I can trust them. That's a brand, a reputation, a currency. Buffett's the same. They can go in and Buffett knew about Grady Rogier that he would always do what he says he's going to do. So with trust, they can go in, do a deal on a handshake, close it in less than one month with no due diligence. That's what I call the speed of trust. Without trust, you could never do that. Or it'd be foolish to try. That'd be crazy. You're just crazy to try. So now we start looking at the speed of trust. I mean, there's the foundation. You have this. You talk about the foundation. So kind of elaborate on that and educate us on this. I'm sorry. We only got 28 minutes. We're cramming you. That's good. It'll be available tonight. You're going to be at the BBB. I have another show in here tonight, or I'll be down there. Yeah. I've been invited to be part of the Hawaii's BBB. The Torch Award. The Torch Award. That's going to be amazing, yeah. Yeah. For ethics. That's great. I'm excited. These are local companies, businesses that are kind of good standards and models of ethics and excellence and trust, really, which is the BBB. Which we're part of. Oh, it's perfect. We're part of that. Yeah. So talk about the foundation now. I love the waves. Now we've got the foundation. Yeah. So the next piece. Yeah. So my premise is that trust is learnable for a leader, for a team, for an organization. And you've got to go inside out. That was the five waves model, which is saying, don't wait another. Start with yourself and then ripple out. Now what do you do? Okay. Well, the first thing you do is to put in place the foundation. And I use this as the foundation. Use the metaphor of a tree. And the foundation is the idea of credibility. Trust starts with credibility. For the Latin term, criteria, it means to believe. So credibility is believability. I use the metaphor of the tree. We've got the roots and the trunk of the tree. See, that's like character. The roots is integrity. I start with the foundation of integrity. And then the trunk is intent. That's my agenda, my motive. And if people are seeking mutual benefit, win-win instead of win-lose, and they care about those that they're serving and working with, people tend to trust them. But if they don't think you care, or they think that you have an agenda, a self-serving agenda, they tend to not trust you. Now, of course, if you don't have the roots, the integrity, they don't trust you. So integrity is the roots. Intent is the trunk, the caring, the mutual benefit. That's part of our character. Then the upper half of the tree is those from our competence. Because not enough that someone's honest, they also have to be able to deliver. Yeah, they have to be good at what they're doing. Yeah, but they have to be good. Can they do what they said? Yeah, and if they're honest, but they can't deliver, then, hey, I trust them, am I going on vacation? You tell me to watch my home, right? If they're honest, I'm not going to put them on the project if they can't deliver. So I've got to have the upper half. The upper half is the competence half. Right. And so I use the branches of the tree and the fruits. And the branches are capabilities. What's our expertise, our knowledge? And the key question here is, are we relevant, especially in a changing world, right? We've got to stay relevant, learning, growing, improving, staying relevant. So those branches produce the fruits and the fourth core of credibility are those fruits. So that's our results, our performance. And, you know, our past performance, our current performance, why does that matter? Because people project upon us future performance. When they see a track record of results, it gives them confidence. Yes. But there's no results, then it's kind of like, I'm not quite sure. I like you. You're honest. I trust you, and I like you. But, you know, you need to see the upper half of the tree as well as the lower half. And the combination of that character and the competence, those four dimensions, is credibility. And with credibility, you can build trust exceptionally fast. So Warren Buffett, he's so credible. He's got a reputation for it. He can go in and without a lot of interaction with people, he's already on third base. He's, you know, because he's credible. He's just because he walked in the building. He walks in the building. Credibility, character, competence, these four dimensions. And so you can build trust exceptionally fast that way. So with that foundation, you can do everything else so much better, so much faster. And it's a great way of starting. And the great thing about it is it's practical. I can get my arms around that and kind of look at, hey, if there's a lack of trust for whatever reason, is one thing if there's a lack of trust, say, because there's, you know, low integrity. Right, right. That's one kind of issue. But what if there's a lack of trust because of low results? Yeah. That's a different issue. But what if it's low intent that you're seen as being self-serving or low capabilities you're not seen as current and relevant. These are all different issues. These four quarters of credibility help you pinpoint it and to diagnose it, to know what it is, and most importantly, to know what to do about it. Now you can move it quicker. Yeah. I kind of wonder, were Warren Buffett, was he imbued with trust or did he ever describe to you where he learned that and how this emanates from him so readily? Yeah, I think that if you look at his track record over five decades and kind of public life this way as a CEO, you see he always saw the importance of the roots of the tree and the trunk. Right. Kind of the character. You know, he's known for integrity. But then also, what really puts him over the top is not just the character side. That's what gets him in the game but then his performance, his track record. Which is unmatched. Unmatched. And you play it out over time, it's unmatched. And so he's credible when Warren Buffett talks, people listen. So believe it or not, we've gone through the first 14 minutes so we're going to take it off. And you're not too excited about what you're talking about. I hope not. I hope not. I think maybe... I'm not sure if you can find it. Good. Steven Covey, I got Andrew, the security guy, go over to the tech sour. We're going to get Angus for a brief minute and then we'll come back and we're going to talk about another segment in the book that I truly liked. So anyway, we'll see you in a minute. Hi, I'm Tim Appachello. I'm the host of Moving Hawaii Forward, a show dedicated to transportation issues and traffic issues here on Oahu. Join us every other Tuesday at 12 noon. And as we discuss how we try to solve our traffic headaches, not to include just the rail, but transit and carpooling and everything in between. So join us every other Tuesday Moving Hawaii Forward. Thank you. Hi, I'm Nicole Alexander Enos and I was born three weeks ago. Congratulations on being there for me for some of the few weeks of my life. I'm starting a new show, The Millennial Mind, every Wednesday at 2 p.m. for the month of April where we'll go over some of the reasons why millennials are some of the most anxious and frustrated people at the moment. Hi, everyone. Ted Rawlson here, host of our think tech show Where the Drone Leads. And a lot of you, of course, have been setting your clocks at 4 o'clock on Friday so that you can make sure you see our show. It's now changed. It's now going to be at noon on Thursdays, noon on Thursdays, new standard time for Where the Drone Leads. And Where the Drone Leads is two systems like this, capabilities that we're using in Hawaii these days. And we need you to pay attention to this to be part of it. So see you at noon on Thursdays. Hey, hello, everybody. And welcome back to Hibachi Talk. We found Angus down on the beach as usual. Angus, what have you got for us today, buddy? How you doing there, dude? Very well, man. I want to tie it in because we got Mr. Kami in the house. Good. I'm glad you're looking spiffy. I thought you were going to tie it so I was always set up for it. Thank you, sir, for being here. Thank you. I'm just going to do one little thing and you never have to say anything. But you know, I'm a MEP at the government right now. Let me show you the picture. It's a walk-around tune. And look, and there's three polls I found in the past week. This is it. This is the city and county of Harlem and the plan committee. That's our maintenance program. That's our maintenance program. So, you know what? Guess what? I didn't have trust in government. And I'm going to leave it with that. But thank you so much for being on the show. Angus doesn't trust government. What do you think about that? How do we keep trusting government? This is kind of a good, you know, it goes out to that societal ring at the end and we take all our trust out and what's government give us back? What happens? Where's the trust lost, right? Or where's it gained? Or how do we get them to... How do we get... How do we trust them again? That's what I'm trying to say. And you're going to work. And I wanted to put you on the line. I want to trust and I want to believe. I do. And I do often. But not as often as I'd like. Well, it's interesting because if you look at the data, Edelman trust barometer, other measures of trust, there's no question that as a society, we've lost trust in many of our institutions, including in government and in political parties. And in universities and you can just remember that. And in media and in police media. Including in large business. Yes. And so here's the key principle because this is not easy. No. You know, regaining trust, restoring trust. But here's the key principle. You can't talk yourself out of a problem that you behaved yourself into. That's a good one. There you go. If we've lost people's trust because of our behavior, the only way to get it back is through our behavior. Words alone are necessary, they're insufficient. We've got to behavior back into trust and we need to do that as a society, as leaders. And my main thing is that while it's very real what's happening all around us in society and the marketplace and with government and other institutions where maybe we're seeing a loss of trust is that rather than kind of letting that then define us and how we approach it that's too much outside in. Let's try to give them an example of building trust, high trust team, let that culture let that ripple out and watch the effect that we might be able to have in our communities, in our businesses and ultimately maybe even ripple out into all of society. So you even think sports? I mean you just, I don't know what, just triggering me. I saw Rolovich, a coach of the University of Hawaii football team in downtown today trying to raise money for the football team. Now this is a coach of the university, a division one football team down in downtown. And there's a lot of trust there but guess what? All these players have to trust and look at trust in sports teams and being a teammate. Why is trust? You've got to trust both the character of your fellow teammates and their competence. Character that they're not just that for themselves, their own word but rather the team and the competence that they'll be what they're supposed to be, they know what they're supposed to do and they'll do it. They know how to make that blocking a stop. So I'm going to throw up the book here but in this book you have these thirteen behaviors of trust. Wow, I've got a guide helping me go through this. You have a whole chapter on behavior. All kinds of different things that happen. If you take the test it shows you what you need to work on and yourself. And here's these 13 things that nobody gets about 100% all the time. There's some situations where you maybe trust yourself or have more competence. Sometimes when I'm cooking my wife looks at me like could you please leave the kitchen? I don't must not look like I know what I'm doing. So I think she trust me but there's that true. My wife doesn't trust me with doing the laundry but there's a reason for that. See? I don't want her to trust me for doing the laundry. So sometimes it's situational. I guess it's kind of what I'm saying. But these 13 behaviors right here. Some of the ones that you got 13 here I know we can't cover 13 in a few months but some of the ones that really come out to you that really you know people to really start focusing on. These are all 13 but the ones that jump out at you. Yeah, yeah well here's a couple of things. There's the behavior which is kind of straightforward common sense if you look at those 13 things all straightforward. Yeah. There's the opposite of the behavior and then you know that's doing the opposite that's also like common sense. If you do that you're going to lose trust of course and there's what I call the counterfeit behavior and counterfeit behaviors like counterfeit money. See it looks real but it's not when you're more closely inspected you realize it's fake it's fraudulent so let me illustrate. Okay. Let's take first talk straight means that we tell the truth we call things what they are we use simple language candor is a language of trust. So you know you tell the truth you build trust we learn that in kindergarten right we also learned the opposite that you know if you lie you destroy trust. Sure. So you tell the truth you build trust you lie and destroy it. Straight forward we learn it in kindergarten. What makes this so hard what makes it hard is the counterfeit we call spin. It's the spin and the twisting and the manipulate and the pattern is when people quote they technically tell the truth. But they leave the wrong impression. It depends on what it is. Yeah. So yeah. They're technically accurate but they're completely misleading. As a result trust goes down. So our challenge is probably less flat out the opposite. Occasionally it is someone just flat out lies you know there's not going to work we know that. It's the spin because the spin works and it's acceptable but it comes to the price trust goes down and so the opposite will sink us but the counterfeit is what's more common in teams and cultures not evil people doing evil things occasionally happens but it's more that people get entrapped in you know hidden agendas instead of creating transparency over promising and under delivering instead of keeping commitments you know pointing the finger and blaming other people instead of practicing accountability and holding yourself accountable so I can go through all the behaviors which really trips us up is that counterfeit but I'll highlight another behavior so I'll highlight the first and the last the first one talks straight be straightforward open you know in that in this BBB event tonight you know they talk about advertise honestly and you have ethics and a foundation of integrity so you're telling the truth first is trying to manipulate spin position posture because that looks like a bait and switch you know that I said well I told them the truth you know but they might have been missed because you left something out right and then you start to wonder about everything you look at can I believe this and you doubt that so you know straightforward but let me highlight the last behavior okay extend trust extend trust and let me tell you why that's so vital because there's a reciprocity to trust and also to distrust and when when when you don't trust somebody they tend to not trust you back and you know you don't trust your partner your supplier distributor they tend to not trust you you don't trust your customer they tend to not trust you and so distrust is contagious people who don't trust each other tends to become a vicious downward cycle and that's kind of the challenge we have in our society today is there's so much low trust we all become none of us want to get burned right so we become more careful cautious guarded we lead back with being careful cautious guarded guarded people respond back being careful cautious guarded suspicious and it becomes a vicious downward cycle of distrust and suspicion creating more distrust and suspicion and everyone feeling justified so here's my point back to you that is that can you rebuild trust yes and you talk about that in the book I think it's a good point to talk about can you rebuild trust absolutely you can but it's not easy yes and but and I also acknowledge maybe in every situation you may not have a chance like burning made off might have a hard time no you're building trust not because it's okay in the kitchen in the kitchen but we can't let him cook the books yes you know just because the nature of the loss of trust over a period of time so agreed just too big too big but in most situations we can if we're willing to behave our way back into it okay and again we can't talk our way back into it we gotta behave our way back into it that would take some time so these are 13 behaviors of how you can do it here's how I might do it and I'll use the behaviors to say it okay so let's say I bought someone's trust right you know one of the behaviors is I confront reality that we've lost the trust versus denying it acting like it's not there right then another behavior is I practice a kind of body I own it I take responsibility for it versus pointing the finger blaming everybody else because if I'm blaming everybody else well there's five fingers pointing back we're doing this there's fingers pointing back oh I had a bad day you just don't take account it's just hey it's gotta own it I call that practicing a kind of body start it with yourself so I confront the reality I lost trust I practice a kind of body I own that I take my part in this then I gotta right the wrong you know right wrongs right you make it right when you're wrong that might be include apologizing it might mean making restitution as a legal concept to make whole I make it right as best I can and that will help but there's still more I gotta do now so I gotta clarify expectations going forward to regain and re-earn their trust I tell them what I'm gonna do you know rebuild their trust hey here's what you can know about me I wanna gain your trust back I'm gonna make it right here and then going forward just know something if I ever make you a commitment I'm gonna keep it or else I won't make it if I have an issue I'll come to you with the issue I won't you know I'll be transparent I'll be open I'll go straight to you I tell them what I'm gonna do then the most important thing I now keep commitments I do what I say I'm going to do and I behave my way back into trust as I behave my way out of it right and it's not easy but it's possible in most situations as long as we're willing to behave our way back into it and I would think over time people will forget about the distrust that they had with you and remember the trust going forward because now they're counting on you they're counting on you and you build that reputation back you've earned it back okay it's not easy I wanna hide that the story with your nephew when he got angry that was great you know and it took a while it took a while and you showed serious commitment to Arnie back and he finally said okay it was a while right that's right I did a dumb thing with my nephew and I had to earn it back and I couldn't just say hey sorry trust me he had to see that I really cared and that I built the relationship back and I behaved my way back into it so not easy but possible that's encouraging because in a low trust world if we could never restore it we'd all be you know discouraged about it and I think that we can and that tax that continues when that downward spiral you're talking about when there's distrust every transaction costs more and more and more so that it just degrades it's exhausting it's exhausting you guys are running out of time we are running out of time anyway so running out of time and I just think Steven it's a great story I encourage people to please read this book whether it be business, family, whatever please read and I wish our government officials would please read this book yeah that'd be amazing that'd be awesome we should send them a case of books let's do that can they read? yeah I'm being a smart old anyway Steven we give all of our guests an autographed solo cup and you got number one eleven in this series and we can say now it's really in high profile places thank you so much for joining us and your really busy schedule great luck tonight I'm sure you'll have them standing in the aisles and remember trust trust I'm going to change my license plate trust that's what it's going to be but thank you so much you're welcome and we have a call that we do at the end of every show and we talk to you at that ceremony so as we do at the end of every show one, two, three how you doing?