 Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly This is not the Christmas episode. That's next week We're gonna celebrate during the 12 days of Christmas though We are fed you can of course feel free to bring all the festive cheer you would like It's you know, we always gonna do the clip episode closest to Christmas. So do I do I have to be on next week's episode, too? Yes Man, it's like eight weeks and I've been here for seven of them. Oh, no Remember when you were here every week for like seven years? I do weird It seems so far away now it does yes, we'll probably do a post-holiday show with the three of us Tom I meant to talk to you about that but hey, you know stuff sounds great I've also got to talk to you because there's work coming your way in January because we're about to Proceed to the development phase of another game But anyways, yeah, it's all sorts of good things. Just talk about this live on the air Why not at any rate? We're happy to have Constantino's back on the show. What's up, buddy? How you doing? Welcome back. Oh Good. Thank you for having me Great third time's a charm as I was saying to Tom It's the first time we actually are together here because there's no book for me to Talk triumphantly about and then you know Tyler being like boo about it So he said let's leave that on up until the next book comes out, you know Absolutely, don't worry. We'll get you back on when there's a book so Tyler can be a negative Nancy about whatever There you go. No doubt. There you go the yin and the yang. That's right. That's right every time every time All right, so yes today. We are gonna talk about the state of chaos Specifically the four chaos gods is what we're gonna focus on chaos is a whole not game No, we're not gonna talk. Well, we'll we will talk a little bit about Skaven beasts and S2d, but we're gonna really focus in on the four chaos gods So like the four main gods in their flagship armies as they are like the preeminent sort of Thing of chaos, right? Like it's the four gods. It's sort of the lens through which chaos itself in the game is viewed And it's a religious all day coming up now. So religious all days means we need to focus on the gods And if you want to talk chaos you bring dads of twins in my case toddlers So chaos rains all over the place. I've been there. They've they've rained in my house for two I do I remember those days of chaos indeed. Yeah, so cheers to them absolutely Yeah, I have three dogs who look kind of similar but other than there They're certainly chaos engines as Tom will attest, but not even close to on the level of children I'm not one of those people. There's a there's a wide golf of difference between children and dogs I can just leave my house for example for hours at a time and like just leave the dogs And no one comes and arrests me which is neat At any rate. Yes, we are going to talk about the state of chaos But of course first as we come to a close here in 2023 we've still got some news. What do you got? I you know, I'm gonna buck your trend vents and say advent calendar, correct It's there is I by now again I didn't pull every image most advent calendar images are completely worthless to be honest You look at them and you're like this is nothing. Yeah. Yeah, it's just like garbage like three bone sticks. It's like Oh, look a skull. Yeah, right Yep, it's it's definitely a model. It's probably made of plastic But I picked two that I thought were interesting from the advent calendar You know what's really funky about this when I want to save the image I have to use the image with this dumb wreath frame the wreath around it Yeah, and then actually like ends up closing off some of the image you see more when you look at the full advent calendar page Yeah Which is weird But anyways, I thought this was cool because I thought it'd be a spooky. It's a spooky ghost night-haunt model So Tom, I thought you'd be excited about this one in that it's got a little thin You can tell the night-haunt models because they're little thin wrists Usually, you can see in the holdings vital one, right? Yeah. Yes Like you can see the fingers. Yeah, like their fingers are all the same Like they're using any wrists and little long like it's a very particular set of knuckled fingers They do like a certain proportionality, right? Yeah, and that is certainly true and like yes This is definitely a night-haunt Mom, there's no question in my mind about it. Yeah, and he's dumping out spooky ghost liquid You can see the face in the gas liquid whatever it is that's pouring out So I also just wanted to take a moment to On air say that the person who painted this whomever you are in the heavy metal group did a fantastic job Look at that bottle. Look at that upturned bottle. I know wonderful Wonderful. Yeah, like the liquid is not completely even because it's pouring. He's got the nice He's got the bubbles, but they're following a nice pattern as you would expect them to be Going like glug glug glug and flowing out of the bottle man He's got a nice reflection light right on the outside there Good stuff good stuff painter whoever this was I would love to shout this person out and credit them But unfortunately GW does not credit its artists who work very hard on this Because their policies are ridiculous and so but you know whoever you are Artist that we see your awesome work. So like you appreciate watching this and you know who it was Please tell them they did a really amazing job I was gonna say I thought Skaven to begin with because I was carried from by the the books and all that But yeah, I do believe the night one thing because of the wrist. You said the very tiny Bony wrist. I'm still looking for like what how many we got 24 25 of them. Yeah, we're almost done with them Almost done. Let me let me get my imaginary salt shaker here as a corn player still looking for a Valkia somewhere What are you waiting for? Are you gonna give us our daughter or granddaughter at this point? What what are you waiting for? It's you know you come on the question persists embarrassing. It really is at this point But anyways, I thought this was interesting one My guess is this is the like we have as we'll see later in the news. We have one model spoiled from book Whatever new next you think this is our death. You think this is the new night on model for Oh The advent calendar stuff often spoils things that are like a week away from being actually revealed So I think this is just the death one that'll come with book four. Yeah four Yeah, so yeah, okay Then the other one I grabbed was this one You can't see it as much with the stupid wreath around it But I grabbed this because I have no idea what's going on in this image this model is is This is it's obviously a hand holding a mace of some kind like a weird mace, right? Way to refresh so I can see it. Yeah. Yeah, I understand but this model is Absolutely insane because it's like this weird chunky pieces It almost looks like the arm is made of rocks like the thing Yeah, and it has a weird chain piece or metal piece like a almost looks like a wrench But it's obviously like some kind of connected piece of metal. You see that between like the arm and the yeah Over here. Yeah hammerhead itself. Yeah, exactly so This is just so weird. I Had that even the texture on the mace like the weird boards put together with a big nail sticking out the front I was just like this is a heck of a strange thing So I have no guess what it is I just thought it was unique and it caught my eye because it looks like the thing wielding a mace that's been Chained to his arm. So Are we getting our elemental army that we've wanted for so long rock? Work that way by the way, you cannot have a chain Anyway, yeah, who knows? I don't know. I don't know Yeah, I thought it was it. Yeah, go ahead I was just I've been calling as a destruction edition, right? Like how do you add new destruction armies? One of my pitches was if we get a new destruction army like of a new concept Elementals right like the realms rising up. Oh hundred percent. I remember from broken realms when the what the realm exploded when the Seraphon Starship broke and there was a crater continent sized. There should be coming elements outside from shaman Let's turn to full-on meriden here. Yep, and yeah, that would be great Maybe it's been a while I am in let's do it. So, you know, I just thought this one was crazy because I looked at it I was like, are we getting rock people? Is this happening? So anyways, you know how easy they would be to paint Like it would be my like my favorite painted army, right? Like that would just be it'd be your like gray Wash dry brush. Look grain it Love it. Yeah, today's one was probably a vigilar by the way. I don't know if you've seen the sword. Yeah Yeah, it's just it looks like a bit of a short. So Nobody pulled any brain muscles there. I guess. Yep. I assume it's just some updated storm cast from the new edition. So I didn't even grab the one because it was so obviously a storm cast sword. I was just like, yep, it's the storm cast sword. There we go Okay, uh Richard with that sick burn. I love it. That's great. Good stuff Uh, okay. What's next Tom after advent calendar? Uh, yeah, I can read it's the warhammer heroes returns It does. Yes, folks. It's so funny like a week or two ago. I was like sorry events I was like, hey, you remember that warhammer heroes saying that they used to do whatever happened to that He's like, I have no idea Here it is folks. It's back Surprise you can go vote for people and you know, whatever happens Yeah, you have thoughts, Vince. I do. I hope people Recognize like one. I'm glad it's back. I think it's a good program Two, I think it's importantly a chance to recognize There's a lot of local heroes Toes people who keep games and scenes running and those people generally do a pretty thankless job Okay. Yep Those are the people who should be getting votes and whose stories should be shared To them so that these people can be recognized because they are generally the lifeblood of whatever community they are part of And like, you know, if you think if you have a community if you go play at a game store You have somebody who organizes your events or to who runs stuff a couple times a year or one time a year or whatever But who's organizing like you know who those people are Right And being a to is not a path to money making. It's a path to stress Uh ulcers and shoveling money out the car window while driving down the highway at a very high speed, right? So the least we could do is write a nice letter for those people to get them recognized Yeah, like those folks are like teaching people how to do new like new players how to play the game Yes, like I regularly like i'm gonna I'll just give it all spruke out clay Like I show up to our local store often to paint and like eight out of ten times. He's in there You know, um, which is just shocking to me and oftentimes he's like teaching people how to play the game Just you know, like and and he's the one that does the local like monthly event He also is the one that is putting you on our two-day or coming this the spring And he's often there like on weekends teaching people how to do intro games Like you just can't like you can't replace that and the game doesn't grow without folks like that. It's exactly true These are the people who should be the war hammer heroes. So yeah, if you know someone write the letter do the thing Yeah, because most of us will never know about them. I'm thinking that here in sweden we have a fantastic person in uh, Stockholm Jesper valander who is actually That i'm going to make a os a swedan thing Like obviously people playing all over he made the swedish championship She he made the academy along with other people Which is an actual thing that's a discordant The people who are going to be part of six nations or areas worlds go in and to train to practice to discuss To organizing different tournaments all over the place making trying to make these tournaments Interweb to have results throughout the year And yeah, we never know about them Right like i have no idea what's happening in the next Town obviously or the next country But there's people there having said that where there's going to be another Outside of that matrix the real war hammer heroes Huh, just check my notes for this year at 72 games That's at least three hours per game Which means for 210 hours at least my wife had had to keep the kids alive While daddy was somewhere place else playing with little figurines So to all the girlfriends boyfriends wives and husbands and everyone else who is Doing the work while we're doing the game You're actual heroes. We thank you very very very much for letting us do that without you know breaking our heads or As doc said last week taking the kids and leaving So, yeah There are many many layers on this, you know Yeah, yeah, I agree. We thank you. Yeah. Take a moment to appreciate your your folks folks There you go Very nice. All right Uh Tom what's next? Yeah, uh, we also um got the uh Tomb Kings model at aos folks We got it Like eight years later. We're here There she is snake lady. Okay, Tom. I'm I mean, you know what? I have one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, our new Lamia lady um Fang of new Lamia. I I didn't mention the the old world Box thing being spoiled because whatever like it it was what it was person caring about it pictured here Right. Yeah, so it's fine. Like we'll we'll talk about that whenever it whenever it all comes out Like we'll talk about our full feelings on it once we know the full details um But at any rate I have been just Just champing at the bit. Um to know your thoughts on this model and let me tell you why Because you have always wanted to do this new Lamia thing. You're like obsessed. I did Concept I did. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, and so they finally gave you a model and it's you know it's a lady with a snake and so like Where where are you landed on this one? Tom? Did this this hit it for you? Vampire lady with a snake. Yeah, I think so. Okay. Yeah, I think so like I um Like I appreciate that the armor styling is just very different than the armist armor styling that we've seen uh for I mean, I've put together every sold light model in the model range In the last two months like I have like basically built everything. Um, and Look, she's just very aesthetically different. I mean, it's exactly what I was looking for Um, and it makes me want to build another army Right in that in that aesthetics and utilizing again two king bits and stuff like that So, I mean, I've been chewing on a new Lamia build for a while The challenge for me though is is that like the sub faction is just fairly uninteresting in the book too Um, so that's like that's the problem is that it's all vampire related and yeah whatever, um so, uh Yeah, I mean I I was satisfied with it. Let me just I'll say it that way Yeah, let's see the don't bring your book the new arrangement how it looks I have no I do like the fact that I'm looking at the model. It looks very triangular, which looks nice Yeah, I I thought for sure tom was going to be against this because of the big hat Like that was I thought I thought tom is generally anti big hat Uh, I am generally but her big hat looks like nefratas It does right like yeah, like it like she's right in line with you know, vince I literally like did I say this on the show or did I say this to you personally when I was talking about the Moretark models and I was just stunned as I had built through all the moretarks. Okay That like it was amazing to me how much their individual aesthetics actually carried into all of the armies that have been designed I remember you saying that with Arkham being a OBR before OBR existed and all that Yeah, exactly like his all of the Like all the plates and all those things it is truly OBR Like all of it all the way down is the OBR aesthetic blown, you know writ large The same is true of manfred like manfred is the blood nuns Like if you look at the blood night's armor, you look at what manfred did what his original stuff was It is like part and parcel with that. But what's fascinating is we haven't ever really seen nefrada's new lamnia aesthetic explored Like that's one of the things that hasn't shown up in any design language that we've seen thus far And and we actually get glimpses of that Here with her with again the hat some of the armor pieces Um, and obviously the weapon just reeks of tune king, right? Sure that the large glaive Weapon that's probably my kids All right, not mine. I do get Oh, no No, those are mine But yes, so what I would say is this I love where they went with it I love like snakes because snakes are like a perfect like Deserty option that we haven't seen explored in um In the regular tune king range, right? Like we have like we have the wolves We have bats and so it's another animal that kind of fits Immediately sold by range management. This whole this whole wide range out So I love the direction that they went with it. So I actually really did enjoy this to be honest. Good Now, I don't know that there's any room to actually develop this any other way, right? Um, so I don't know that there's another possibility But I I did enjoy it Cool. All right. Good stuff Uh, yeah, I I can't say I like snake lady very much. Um, but it's fine. It's cool Uh, all right, excellent Cool, uh, and that's that's that one and then tom stepped away. That's fine Uh, yeah, I mean my my short answer on it is I don't love her. I'll tell you the thing. Actually, I don't love her pitted armor I wish the armor was to bring this a bit closer to see it. Yeah, she has like her armor is like right and ruined Um, I don't know. I'm not like that could be fixed. You could you could Sproogoo or putty over there or something, but it's kind of annoying But at any rate, yeah It is surprising is what I'll say like the the ping like that was the one piece of the armor that caught my eye Because it is so unlike everything else we've seen right what I mean by that is like if you look at the like, uh The blood knights they don't have pitted armor Their gear is immaculate if you look at all the other vampires their gear is immaculate And so the pitting really was a curious design decision. Yeah, it's really like the skeletons and stuff like that have that kind of That's the skeleton or design Yeah, that is the skeleton armor design. And so it was just a really curious Design decision. Oh, yeah, it was really your curious choice that they made. Yeah, okay, you know All right, let's uh, what else we got anything else or is that the news? Uh I hold on just a minute. I changed my tab 40k amazon linked. Oh, yeah, sure. Of course. We had the announcement. Uh, yeah They signed their deal. So in three years, we're gonna get some 40k related thing on amazon a movie or a television show So neat. Look, let's hope it's nice. Yeah. I mean, I'm just excited about it because I do think that this world is Compelling the larger games workshop worlds that they've created. I mean if we can make like a shadow and bone series come on We can do this. That's all I'm saying. So I mean that got canceled after like two seasons, but hey, let's get two seasons and then get canceled. So that's fine At least it's out there It's shocking to me that they haven't licensed it and that we haven't made anything out of this with In the current in the current world where every studio is just trying to like snatch up every ip it can I mean, you know what? I was discussing this with my brother about the warcraft film And they had like millions of active players or players who have played warcraft and they're like, you know what? We're gonna make this film for the people who have no idea what warcraft is Bad choice my friends. No make it for the actual people who actually enjoy it don't just go You know the meme where it says so there's the emperor, which is like no don't go that just Make a make a warhammer film or a series for people who actually enjoy it Don't try to make it for two billion potential customers. Don't go there. Just I think you could do both. I really do like you could You can just the d&d movie wasn't an example of that. I would argue is that it was sure it was both It was both mass market Like aging. Yeah, it got good reviews. But if you play d&d you watch that and you're like cool They're using this thing. I know that spell. I know that place. I know that thing I love that film so much. Yeah, I love it the boner among thieves, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah Loved it. Yeah, it's gonna be done. You're right. You're right. Yeah Uh, we still didn't get a bard who can actually cast magic because they're afraid to give bards magic because they're afraid that it'll Confuse the audience. No, no, this is the spellcaster guy This is the guy who cast spells and then like but this guy like the idea of people who can that everybody's kind of magical And d&d is just something they don't think the audiences are smart enough to grasp Uh, but anyways, so he's really just a road in there. They're always We did get one in the willow tv series. We got a bard that cast magic. Sure. Sure. I understand. Where's that? I'm sorry. Where can I watch willow now? Oh nowhere It got cancelled and they removed it and buried it in the in the desert. Yeah, exactly Place where those Atari games are yeah, it's right there on top of et now Um So at any rate, uh, you know, I like I'm interested all while I I There are Certainly compelling ways you could do it. I am not a script writer I could certainly think of how I'd want it to be done as we all would have our own ideas I just hope they make something that's compelling and and And and and shows people that that both these worlds are fun And if it's successful enough then hopefully in the long run they could do an aos show or movie too Which is what I'd really be stoked for because there's definitely some cool things. I think I think this world's just like a really great world You could set some awesome stories in so anyways There we go, uh, okay. I think that's the news, right? Yep, very good. All right. Let's uh, let's go to some pick of the week Uh Constantinos we'll have you start. What would you like to share with everybody? Yeah, I was thinking that um This this season right now this period for me is a lot of working With grades and all that now the school is almost coming to a close tomorrow's last day. So I'm going to just go to a classic toddler is not here. So season of war There's the og battle between corn and stormcast that just came out yesterday And it's I actually watching it. I was thinking wow. Look at how much these have changed because there's dragons and all that Well corn, you know blood warriors blood reverse slow corn blood secretor Good old corn Nothing bids me Lee. Good old corn. That's right. Yeah. Yes the the the the clever use of rock. That's what exactly. Yes. Yeah That's the one. So yeah, it's in the war. They're doing I had to mention But they're making a few changes like if you've watched it It's a little recap between the rounds But now they're making stops in the actual run when they're they're showing some interesting stuff that happened Great choice and great change and it looks even better. Nice. Yeah, amazing Uh, there'll be links down below tom. What do you want to share with everybody? Uh So a couple weeks ago I had posted on facebook a like a twitter Or not facebook on a twitter thread on like possible gift ideas And let no idea go unwaisted like a day or two after we did that John Nenis dropped a video on literally the same topic. Sure. Um And it was delightful. It was like everything that I wanted Uh out of a video of like a bunch of random bs stuff that I may or may not want or need for my hobby life and uh A bunch of things on that on that video went on my shopping list like on my christmas list So I'm hoping that I get a little uh like desk vacuum cleaner Like I want I want boy. He's not faking on that He we because he was at my house when that video dropped and so we actually all watched it together because we torture each other When we're all together we torture each other by watching each other's videos It is the worst thing you can ever do like you get a group of content creators together You force them all make fun of each other's videos. Yeah, watch their own videos. It's horrible Okay But anyways, so we watched his video and like he was like I he really does love that vacuum cleaner. It's amazing So that little thing is great Yeah, that's that that's on my list. Uh the little um the mold line sander Like the little that has little sanding pads to give me the size. Yeah Yeah Well that like the it looks like a the drill pin, but it's basically for it's a sanding device Um that that made it on my list a number of them. Anyways, so there's a bunch of neat options on there that I want to encourage you all to To check out. Yeah, I yeah I'm 100% on you with that because I have people in my life are like, what should we get you for Christmas? Seemed like you need nothing like I'm gonna send them that link and I have to say john I was repping your merch last time I was here. I was wearing the slay the gray He never even contacted me or a friend said nothing. I just want to be part of your social circle And you're doing nothing But yeah Call me that hurts john. It really hurts. Yeah, it does it does Anyway, I mean he john sold me on a 3d printer. I'm not gonna lie like I was getting there No, like yeah, I watched that video and I was like, I don't know. I can get back into a 3d printing Yeah, I don't need a second. I don't need another hobby. Let me say that way I don't need a fifth hobby or tenth hobby or whatever would be at this time. Yeah, you do. Yeah, you do Too many advice. I just didn't know people who are interested in that Frozen ball vins. Give him the printer. Yeah, sure Uh at any rate from my pick of the week Uh, obviously the world championships happened recently and aos coach recently did a great show Recapping that with a couple people from world championships So if you want to see we're talking about the meta a little bit if you want to explore more about some of the Some of uh, warhammer being played at the highest levels of competition. Go check that out And uh, it's a really good interview really good video really good interview. So there you go. Yeah, uh, all right With that Gentlemen, shall we move over and talk about some hobby time? And uh, what we're all working on so Constantinos you're about to have a break. So I don't know if you've had it You've probably been slammed recently But what have you been getting done and do you have hobby plans over the over the break? That's the question. Where were you? Yeah, I do actually. I'm almost done with the commission for a dark angels army horrible idea Paint a whole army for a person. So now I have a leagues of OTAN waiting for me a bigger one. So Man has his vices But I was actually just proxy not converting a little Blood warrior We're holding a banner Nice just a little thing over here and because I was so mentally Stressed and taxed. I just sat and painted the zombie from hero quest of all things. He's right here Hey, what's up zombie? It's gonna get maybe I'm gonna get him into focus. There he is. There he is. Yeah I'm thinking that three four Years from now you my friend are gonna be chewed on by a six-year-old And you're gonna love it So I'm uh, I'm painting the game that my kids don't know they're gonna love the way I did Hero quest was certainly a gateway for me into a lot of things that is for sure Yeah, same here Same here three out of three Tom we've been working on you paint anything It's complicated. Oh, okay. I'm ready. There we go It's like your facebook relationship status over here. Okay. My hobby of status is it's complicated. Yeah, okay Uh, I had that trove off army. I was working on and then I pivoted in the corner And I started working on my corn and trying to do my my paint scheme for my dog army and um I just gave up Um, so uh, I'm not doing right now for the event next month or in a month and a half So, uh, I just I couldn't find the paint scheme that I liked and so literally like I put all of it back in a box And I'm like but I like your blue corn But I know I just I couldn't get it right. I couldn't I didn't I wasn't willing to pivot into pink or uh purple So like I wasn't willing to add that to the model And the crimson's that I was trying to match with it I just couldn't get there like the burgundy red And it was too close to the skin color the skin color was also the problem in that it was a combination of all those issues And so I just pivoted away and I'm doing fec So I spent the last week um building All the fec and waiting for the rest of my corn army But I had ordered to arrive Along with the fec box, which all that'll be here tomorrow So that I can finish the rest of my fec stuff and I'll finish Basing and painting and so like at that point like my fec you'll like I'll have everything Except for like a handful of the new models People have like way more ghouls and flares and horrors and all that than I will ever use Just because like I both from what I already had Because I took my own advice years ago and bought like the four stars getting started boxes for fec because that's a whole army but then I supplemented it with a bunch of uh ghouls horrors and flares from my local store They had a bunch of like they have like a used minis box at like super discounted stuff and they had tons of fec So right before I being dropped I went on and bought the rest of all that I would ever need so I've been like building and basing and and and getting all that ready and then I'll get the final box come in and I'll paint the models for next month probably is what I'm transitioning So third army in four weeks Um, but I'll get there. We'll get there low. We'll get exciting Here's the little azrael by the way. Oh, there you go. I'm happy with the the cloak. It came out very nice Because it's white or ivory white and it works. So I'm glad so, hey What's the space azrael right? For myself Uh, I've been I was well. I'm actually working on some fec stuff. I put together the little vargulf guy Because now none of my old vargulfs actually work for vargulfs because they're all on like The wrong base and they all have big wings and all this stuff. So I was like fine I'll put together the new vargulf and I'll use the other guys. It's like, I don't know Crip flayer courtiers or something probably appropriate. Yeah, you have to rebase them even then because No, mine are on the 60s and I saw you're probably right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know they're they're just a little bit too big I'm in the same spot But he's just primed. I just put him together. Uh, first I was working on this new guy because I really like him The key keeper, right? Yeah, Gordon. Yeah, there one. Yeah So and this guy will be a video sometime far in the future I'm just recording a bunch of stuff for him now, but I just really liked this model. I thought his wings looked really cool Uh, I just like his pose and he kind of spoke to me. So I I so I'm getting him basically getting the two characters together They're fun things. I'm hoping to basically these are two of my paint projects for For uh, my time off here. Yeah Um So, yeah, and this guy's he's coming along real nicely. Um I just he's just like Little nose for ought to looking dude. I just I like his I like his weird little face Um, you just need two more now and you'll be fine Ben. Yeah, I was looking at some furies this morning I was looking some furies this morning and he kind of looks the part only bigger. Yeah, yeah, yeah totally Um, so, yeah, that's where he that's where he's at moving right along I imagine he'll be done. She'll take me like another day or something on him at most Uh, then I'll have to get the video together and whatnot, but uh, but yeah That guy's cool and I like him in the game and I wanted to have the model I do think he's super useful. Oh, I also finished up my the rest of my bat riders I don't have them at hand But I did finish up my full unit of my bat riders from last week So I did get those guys done. They're over with their fec brethren in the It's actually in this cabinet right here. Yeah, you can just barely see but it's in there with the rest of my fec army now There yeah, exactly or other right There You're almost there. There it is. There they are um Yeah, so that's that's super fun. Um and Yeah, so so I and what I'm trying to decide is whether over my break I want to be insane and do a really really big project Something completely crazy and insane Which I don't need and I don't need to paint and I probably already have too much of what we'll see Uh, at any rate is it is it is it aos or is it a different game? I have no comment on anything Bretonia here we go I have zero comments other than it's uh, it's a big project All right, so yeah, we go you got fec. You got fec. I got a zombie. That's the state of death But we're not here to talk about the state of death. We're good With that gentlemen, let's uh, let's jump over And uh, let's just talk about Today's main topic. By the way, if you haven't it like yet do so Uh for all this hopefully and or if you're watching this later or now You know share what you're painting. Hopefully you're hobbying while you're doing this Hopefully you've got some a little bit of time to yourself over the holiday to get some some hobby done I hope so. Hope everybody isn't too caught up with Family and and everything else that you get at least a few hours to yourself to have some quiet time and get some hobby done but uh hit like for For the wonderful wonderful world of death and of course chaos as we're all painting fec But talking about chaos what or I guess dead things and talking about chaos Um, I got a fun game in this last weekend as well I took my scaven against fec The lord of death brendon lives in town now and we got a good game in and uh, he cleaned my clock real hard So that was fun. Um It did not go well for the scaven. It's they're they're in a rough spot. That's there you go That's my transition the state of chaos. Uh, the state of scaven is real tough right now It's uh, it's a tough world out there You just need to run more bells like clearly that's the problem here. I have more bells I ran two towers now. Yeah, I did run two towers. You remember It used to be three towers, right? Like that was the old eighth edition, uh build right the three towers No, it was two tower list There were three towers as well But the two towers was the famous list you use in team tournaments to to gum a game Like what you would do is you would play it when you wanted to have a draw That was the point of the list It was to four to draw. So you'd throw in a in a in a team game where you got four players You knew there was a there you knew there was a list you couldn't beat You'd throw the two towers at them because it would just inevitably end in like a 10 10 or an 11 9 And so that was that was how that list got used and strangely It's used much the same in aos now As now people are running three or four towers and they just stall the game into nothingness This time looks like this It's it is a flat circle here exactly, right? Okay So but we're going to talk about the main four chaos gods Everything like that and see where everything's at. Uh, by the way, I love this art This is some of my favorite art. They ever did for for just I was gonna say the same Agreed Like karenak looks amazing here. Yeah, like holy crap Uh, the blood crushers look so good. This is like such an excellent portrayal of daemonettes as well Like they just they look really good. Um, yeah, like if you expand this out, there's a bunch of really cool slanish people in the picture It's just it's yeah, it's great. Um, I I've never believed that slanish and corn were actually the enemies I always thought that was a stupid enemy pairing Is that a bloodthirster in the back? Because if it is it looks huge. Yeah. Yeah. He's in the shadows. Yeah Yeah, it's so amazing. Nice I just Zoomed in and yeah, there is a bloodthirster and he's huge. Yeah, nice Oh, we lost anyway. I'll be back in a minute. It's fine. There he is um yeah, like This is good art. This was the box when they did the corn slanish box set and man Wrath and rapture Good call All right, so let's talk about the meta right now I think we need to we need to sort of state that first. This is this is my summation of the main Three forces. I think there are three forces primary forces in the meta right now I don't mean armies. I mean like gravity Right like universal forces as it were okay Number one, this is the magic season magic has an outsized impact right now That is it is both magic and anti-magic have become Simultaneously more valuable, right? So whether it be through spells like whorefrost or merciless blizzard you know whorefrost can absolutely turn a unit into just Uh An absolute killing machine if not answered if not countered i'm bound. Whatever you want to say Uh And merciless blizzard can just it's like the ultimate can opener problem solver It's a hammer that turns most things into a nail because just throwing 46 mortal wounds at it will often solve the problem But at the same time it has also made The value of anti-magic dramatically increased so things like null myriad Or corn with their sort of army-wide rule have found that like they have a lot more play in their capabilities to basically counter What a lot of people are trying to do Which puts them in a stronger position It works gobb sprak Sure. There you go. Yep Absolutely gobb sprak and the cruel boys Honestly, not too terrible this season the gobb sprak has a lot of play and what's going on right now um there's uh, so so like that's Primal force number one right is the the the magic Add to that that there are battle plans where a wizard you have a wizard Here's a point if it's if they're sitting on the objective. You don't have them. Oh, oh well So it's not just the rules but also the battle plans themselves That's true. Although I will say it is less heavy in this season than it has been in the past than it was in the Galatians champion's era Right or the veterans one. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. Um, so to that regard Um, you know, you can you could easily go to a tournament where having a wizard isn't determinative of of points In any way other than like They help you win the game. So it's ancillary valuable, right? And and this is actually I think the main point where this force is completely on Empowering whatever your your main strategy is or countering whatever their main strategy is Yeah, right And so you're hoping to kind of drive down the center lane. Okay force one force two Board control and recursion We have more recursion elements and board control elements present in the meta than we ever have before Whether it be a host of units who self heal a ton in combat Whether it be armies capable of restoring units back to the table. We just had another one introduced right and although it's not like technically In the meta yet, whatever because of the whole thing with evc and blah blah blah box versus You know yada yada all that like we know that's going to be a thing Yeah, noble deed points are not super easy to accumulate depending on your list It is it is actually pretty tough like I this is a thing I watched during the You know, I I both played fec one game and then played against it one game That's not a huge wealth of experience But I will say in both games I actually watched and it was relatively tough to build up noble deed points and start Like using them But yeah, people made a big deal People made a big deal about cruel task master But I think they they're way overestimating how quickly that courtiers specifically generate uropa because Abhorrence have a much easier time just because they're casting spells Uh, you have no courtiers that have spell casting ability like you can give them an arcane tone You can give them vestments right to give them some ability to generate a point per turn But other than that, like they're just not like unless they're sitting on the throne unless they are surrounded by other units They're like things like the um, you know, the venti mints in the flare courtier That's right. Who's a great like damage increase her Right for flares if they shoot in their hit lands But they're not generating because they don't generate any hero deeds from shooting So unless you get them into melee, they're not generating points Which is a good balancing factor if you think about it Yeah, yeah, yeah But certainly there will be some amount of recursion spg has a huge amount of recursion Right and or it's not just recursion. It's also just general board control, right? Like that's recursion is a method of board control, right? Where I'm refusing to seed Control the board. I lose a unit. I bring the unit back and it now takes up some other space, right? Especially if I can then restore that unit in some way or move that unit in some way or get that unit into the position I would want, right? And like the scaven lists are are leaning into this they don't have a scaven does not have a huge amount of recursion Though it's there in some lists. You can call back your Mulder units you can regenerate tiny amounts of clan rats But ultimately what's happening with the scaven lists is as we mentioned like many towers Right where they're just putting these very hard to kill towers that sit out there and can potentially Turn into vermin lords or something like that if they get highly damaged But really they're just this big wall and and all these armies what they're seeking to do is just go five points a turn Yeah, they don't need to kill you at all Board control right now feels like can you gum up the board? Can you stop the play the opponent from moving? Can you stop them from doing anything and then you just accumulate points? You don't need to take them out. You don't need to kill their units stop them from playing Right and it's kind of getting irritating to a point. I have to say because it it's a valid strategy right now So and we will see it in a couple at least in a couple of lists today Absolutely So like again when I'm mentioning armies, please don't take it as these are the only armies that have this is an option I'm just kind of naming some of the we haven't even mentioned gifts for example. Yeah, we haven't even mentioned gifts like What we're talking about. Yeah, yep 100 Yeah This strategy is like at the end of the game They would be perfectly happy if none of your models died But what they managed to do was just go Five five five five five grand strat and if they stopped you any one time from achieving a tactic or getting the points Which is what they're going to do Through just oppressive board control like you will not be able to get your three points one turn Or you will not be able to get your battle tactic one turn or something like that then they just win Right, that's it. They'll just keep holding more and battle tactical They have just all the battle tactic options in the world and they'll just grind. They'll just grind out the game right Agreed, they're playing straight at the points basically, right? Their their strategy is play the points period Uh, then we've got shooting the third and ever present prime primal force in aos because it's always strong, right Shooting remains a potent option. You've still got slanesh as a potential shooting army. You've got cities coming in Um, we've seen some steam tank lists actually start to take off, which is I mean, I'm happy about I'm not gonna lie Uh, I don't hate it because you've got these trundling steam tanks running around getting it's it's everything good and undercosted in cities So the pond effects the warforger like that the um The unit of idiots. What's their name the command corps Command corps squad, whatever. Yeah, whatever they are the the group of morons the task force Yeah city zone particular group of idiots, right? I these things and It's you take that core of good efficient stuff and then you just then steam tanks Right Yeah, and it's just they're very hard pieces to remove um because they're driving around on like a two up save they're able to get bonuses to To shoot and stuff like that and they can all just point at something and be like that thing boom Well, actually they have good shooting like particularly the commanders have really good shooting compared to Um, like the cannons like right if you're committing comparing them to the cannon Like it's just a better more mobile defensive cannon Mm-hmm. You want to put this peanut butter and the previously mentioned jelly together? I'd net to town If you think the most irritating thing about sharks was baby shark, you have not played against alopex is Yeah, yeah, because it's not like like four attacks each. No, some of them are going to have the net They're going to stop you from moving from piling in so a couple of sharks are going to just touch you on the sides While all the rest are shooting at you're not moving. You're not going nowhere They're just playing that game shooting from everywhere net stopping you touching on the side or you know, so you can pop in your stock Board control and shooting at the same Oh, it's disgusting. I'm a nice player and I hate this Yeah Yeah, we're seeing a few more like spam lists in the meta honestly where Whether it be shark spam steam tank spam stuff like that. So it is They'll be going away And then I think he's gonna All the way down go find slanish Exactly. What a wonderful transition. Thank you very much. Konstantinos to our next slide our next slide I'm sorry. Wasn't in the original version. I said to him. So this is this got updated. I did it right before the show um, but this is our list of four plus wins faction performance and gts as of the 17th of december 2023 courtesy of woe hammer So thank you woe hammer for the stats go check them out. I will link them down in the description These are their stats. So and they have made them available publicly, which is great for lots of good information on the game And I thought this would be useful so we could kind of take a look At Where the various chaos forces are falling and what you want to see is this yellow bar getting bigger So like the bottom of this is good, right? The more toward the bottom you are the better Uh, and who do we find here at the top with the highest percentage of four plus wins? Why no one other than our blah days of kohorne? Okay So um good stuff for them. We then travel Down as up up down down in performance, but up in the list Magikin of nergal rockin 21 and 23 and three plus wins So still still a quite a good ratio there We then continue our our journey Eventually we come to skaven and many of these I many of these numbers are towers lists hiding under this Let me just say that Um at 16 percent and then beasts at 15 percent Uh, then we go down to zinch getting down there at 13 percent and then The slaves to darkness at 11 and the bottom of our chaos list heat knights of slanesh at 9 percent four plus wins Can you imagine them like this would be an actual thing where there's like an iron jaws and a cruel boys Between them like it's nice over here like do you enjoy this place? Yeah, here. What's happening on the other room where there's lights and drinks and all that Oh, there's a silver and bright next door or five slayers as well. Both layers. What are you doing here? How are you still here? What's happening like the heat knights are what happened? Yeah, I love the zero percent for bone splitters and only 10 reported games or whatever. That's that's pretty Yeah, that's probably what it is. Yeah, that it's not a reality I haven't mentioned the 69 on the slanesh hit nights Somebody dropped the game just to go for that Absolutely. Yeah, nice the And remember the top of the list is the worst So yes, you don't want to be at the top of this. Do you want to be toward the bottom? So that's kind of the general layout of You know the the four plus win thing and I find this to be a much more informative Uh statistic honestly than just raw win rate Um positive win rate in this case Exactly. Exactly because win rate can get weird and spiky and averaged Like you could have a faction that's that becomes an inverted bell curve and ends up in the middle We've got a a bunch of people losing with it and then like some tournament grinders doing really well Because they've found an angle to shoot, but then it ends up in the middle So it looks like it's a perfectly fine thing, but what actually happens is it's just a really high skill floor Army, you know, so like whereas this gives you a better readout overall of like The spread of what you call this the serif on curve. That's what you should call it The serif on curve. Yes. Although. I don't know how much skill it takes to like, uh, drop a bunch of mortal wounds on people from To like akira laser people at the top of one or play dinosaurs That's the two sides. Yes, you can play like one of the most busted armies in the game Doing things no army should do or you can play the perfectly balanced faction the one with minus one damage What world are we living in? You know, they're doing it on like on purpose They said the serif on players gather their own in a room and they said all right Half of you are going to fall on the sword. So our win rate is down So we can keep playing this busted thing when it matters Exactly play with your dinosaurs So we can keep it there and be able to complain that but look at our win rate. It's so bad It's a bunch of parents that have come with their kids and their kids are playing with dinosaurs We're we're gonna we're gonna enroll in this event and you're gonna play dinosaurs. Yeah, I'm gonna play the frogs frogs That's exactly what's happening. We're on to you You don't want it. You don't want to play boring old Uh frogs. Do you frogs and these tiny little weird lizards? That's no fun Nobody wants that. Let me handle that. You play the big stompy dinos and have fun There you go. Yeah Yes And yes, I agree Robert had mentioned that like big was doing really well right now because they can get so many tactics I agree. Um, hopefully we'll see some change to that in the future because like it's just It'd be great if that went away in the new edition Yes, like I if we just had an army like just make it an army Just make orcs. We're gonna kill like kill blown kill Bone splitters. Just pull the band-aid off. We all know it's coming. Okay, send them to the old world There's a game. Great. That's where they belong now back in the old world And then take cruel boys and iron jaws make them one army Have options for people who still only want to play one side of it Where like if you take this general you get this extra thing and blah blah blah So on and so forth brutal, but con in con and but yeah the two sides Yeah, easy easy. So the send us the bill. We can write you the book. Yeah, yeah, just one One uh one army Just two different ways to play and and so on. It's not hard. Okay, cool So for the rest of this what we want to do is now let's take a look at some lists, uh from the various chaos factions And kind of see what they tell us these are all lists that have performed relatively well or interesting or something Going on about them so we can see what they tell us about the meta Yeah, so we're going to start with slanesh here. I pulled anthony lorenz's list Um, so thank you anthony. I who has probably no idea that I pulled his list because that's how this works now You just give your information over to a public data source. So okay. Thank you anthony full credit for this list goes to him Uh, so what do we got here? Well, we have slanesh in pretenders, of course because it is the only sub faction that exists Uh, I believe like 90 percent of slanesh lists right now 90 plus are pretenders lists cool um I have not seen it and I can tell you that there's a strength of gothwood contorted beat a minute I haven't seen the list yet, but There yes indeed both of my children Well, unfortunately, you're wrong because it's the strength of good hood because there was a mess type in the list So, uh, the card says moops It says moops Um, no, yes, you're right. It is the strength of godhood um So, yeah, there's a contorted epitome with the strength of godhood the crown of dark secrets all these things you would expect Uh, the lord a lord of pain shard speaker of slanesh and the mask Famous all-star the mask always around we're down to only 33 bliss bar barchers as they've climbed up in points Uh, we've still got five bliss barb seekers to back that up. We're experimenting out here with five simmer dash twin souls That's right twin souls in a list And six slangor who have gotten cheap enough to to potentially actually be worth something down to 120 per three I still think they could go cheaper. Honestly, I still not sure they're worth it Then you've got six fury six furries and nine untamed beasts You've got acolytes battle reg battle reg for a four drop um, you know, it's this is probably I think one of the Uh One of the better versions of what you can do out of slanesh right now It has to take three units that aren't in It's actual army to get there And yeah um, it's Basically not wanting to fight a melee fight at all Uh, I really hate the silhouette of slanesh right now Like if this is supposed to be the mixed arms chaos force it ain't It just ain't To two melee units that don't really want to fight in melee very much like the twin souls and the fiend bloods They want to pick very specific fights. They want to be in but ultimately this list is about sort of building depravity and applying pressure to the Being able to trigger the depravity in in all phases you can and then build the um But you know, basically like etch out the five through clever movement tricks and stuff like that And taking out their critical pieces where you where you can and then gumming up their work with things Like furies and untamed beasts to stop them from achieving what they need to achieve right, so Yep Yeah, I uh, I lost to a good good. Um, you know, you go first No, I lost to a slanesh shooting list, uh last week or two weeks ago playing with what I play Uh, I was playing I was playing a non-traditional Soul Blight like I was playing a highly like an offensive Soul Blight if that exists even anymore um And uh, like granted I failed like eight charges at the top of one which should not have happened Um, and and and some of them not long charges, right? Like they were like Six seven inch charge or seven inch charges that I failed. So somehow statistically still failed those And so that happens and uh I mean what I found is is that their shooting is still super effective They uh clay was running as his anchor in the center. He was running like a blue dose keeper pair So he did crazy. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was a it was a curious pair, right? And then it was all the shooting and all the mobility around So, uh, I agree Uh Slanesh does not have though The real kind of mixed arms that you would expect or hope for maybe in the current matter Yeah, the thing about slanesh is that it's not the list. It's the army itself. It's the book It's annoying to play against and it's annoying to play with the temptation dice was a bad idea Like they missed the mark there so annoying to play And yeah Yep I have a couple of yeah Go ahead. Go ahead. Please. I have a couple of slanesh players here really elite players and They try to like the book. They do make strong lists, but at the end of the day they would rather It's a it's a it's a game. You're playing with someone and it's at the end of it. It's not a fun game Like this the private thing here. Just give me damage. Just give me damage. Sure. Just give me damage Oh, great Done. I don't know why my thing died from the other side of the board, but yeah, it's dead now good Sure, give me more dice and so on and so forth. So yeah Exactly So let's talk about how this kind of I do want to break down for people who might not be as familiar with slanesh So in case they see a list like this like what's going on Let's talk a little bit about what's actually happening here Okay, so with slanesh as it currently exists The reality is the first thing we need to understand is that about half the units in the book are unplayable garbage Okay, most of this is on the demon side, but it's not just restricted to that. There are plenty of mortal bad units as well Um And you're just never going to see things like the chariots and daemonettes and all that kind of stuff Are basically just dead on arrival. They don't do anything. So they're pointless Um, which is a shame by the by for me personally because that's actually the part of the army I love the most like I love the chariots. I love the daemonettes That art we saw at the very beginning like it was full of all the stuff. I like I love the idea of the like the um, you know when I started playing warhammer Here's a here's a nice callback when I started playing warhammer daemonettes cost 36 points a piece Uh, I want you to really think about what that means put that in you're playing 2000 point army Okay, so oh Okay, so think about how many think about what that means if your daemonettes cost 36 points each 360 for a 10 man unit. Yeah Yeah, that's how that's what they were capable of right Daemonettes were like really scary monsters in the original they weren't actually like monster monsters But they were just like very very very good back in the day Uh, and they you paid price accordingly now. Keep in mind chaos nights at the same time You know, I guess standard chaos night is almost 100 points or something like that. So each Uh, so it was a great time because your armies were small and wonderful And uh, like when you had a unit of 20, you were like, whoa, slow down there. Mr. Hoard Okay What are you doing? Uh, it was a great time anyways I wish we would go back to small armies My number one wish for 4.0 would be to jack the prob points on everything through the roof So we were all playing small armies again and all of a suddenly had four or 5 000 point armies They'll never do it probably will they probably will do it at some points We're like, oh, yeah, come in come in come in So and then then max it out because it kind of did the same in 3.0 when it started Things got a bit more expensive So I remember having that discussion suddenly now everything is cheaper Everything has gotten a lot cheaper in the last couple of years. Yeah, so there's hoping. Here's hoping. Here's hoping They probably won't but you know so But what this let what slanesh basically its line Is now Is largely through bliss bar barchers and seekers you see those in most every list the seekers being And archers performing much the same role being, you know, uh, fairly high-value shooters Um with that that deliver on usually like something like threes and threes Uh, and with with rend so being able to put quite a large number of shots into whatever they want at a decent range and being decently mobile the Other thing you're going to see here is The reason you're in pretenders is because your general can trip issue commands So every time you issue a command to one unit you can then pop up issue it to two more. Okay. No, so uh The point here being if you unleash you can unleash with three if they're all in range if you I'll attack you can all out attack everybody within range if you Rally you can rally three different units simultaneously You still have your normal wound cap or whatever because of rally, but you can redeploy three units at the same time, right? Which redeploy is so much more potent when you can redeploy three units. How many times have you Uh, have you Managed to I mean, I know I think about this all the time when I move up my units to complete charges I'm always trying to keep like okay. I'm four from that unit three from this unit five from this unit Pick your redeploy, right? Like you get to pick something, but I'm going to get in here, right? And then realistically if you roll bad on the redeploy, I'm still going to charge whatever I want because I'm just going to obviously Tokyo drift right into the unit. I actually wanted to fight basically neutering the the power of that ability That's just basically whatever sort of player of minimal Competence is going to do when they when they face down an enemy army Whereas when you can trip redeploy out of the way you walk up and you're like yep, they're all three boot scoop boogie and out of here, right? And so this is that like that's the core power of it And then otherwise the furies are exactly they're like tag and flee tag and flee tag and flee Right around the destroy. Yeah The exactly it's instance surround and destroy because you can just fly them out They don't matter then they can come in they can tag and flee They're also really good for for completing sort of other tactics. You're it's very easy in this army to do your charge to Uh retreat to that's another sort of very easy one to accomplish um The mask is going to be like an easy hero to do the to let into the maelstrom on right Um, because she can she's going to go in there. She's very fast She can easily run in charge pin on the corner and then just bounce out on some later turn So there's just like a very obvious cadence that you can easily with a list like this that you can easily nail battle tactic after battle tactic on Right. Um, and you're basically just uh trying to to then like You're battle-taking every time and you're just trying to eke out the three through like Removing what you need to off of one pressure point on one of their objectives That then you can go and hold more and then rinse and repeat Right and you're trying to gum up their work so that they drop a point they drop an objective They drop a battle tactic through you retreating away or redeploying massively or something like that Where like they go lead in the maelstrom and oops, they get one bad charge and now they drop the tactic you win the game All right, this is often what it is um So there you go That's the the fiend bloods are like your sort of biggest Quote-unquote anvil that you have in a list like this They are quite valuable and that they can push out penalties like neg one to hit and wound Which amongst many things the meta can be quite useful here. They can do a decent amount of damage The twin souls are i'm i haven't seen anthony play this list, but my guess from my experience with twin souls is um, they're largely your sort of Get in the way secondary melee unit that wants to be pressing on a flank side But not all the way out on the side more like your secondary Beta recursion where you fall back and then bring these things up that kind of thing to just sort of be in there and delay them Like a counter charge piece. Yeah, effectively. It's like it's a beta strike piece usually Um, so yeah, that's that would be my read on it anthony if you happen to watch this I'd love to know your your take on it if i'm wrong This is a competitive list and it's by a good player as well. Where does where does slanesh fall off? Why is it so low in win rate? Where does this? Where does it fail? How can how do you beat this? Why can you people just beat slanesh to a pulp? It's exactly the u-shape that we talked about the beginning. It's clear skill gauge Yeah, a high skilled player piloting this list is a nightmare to play against right because they're going to be positioning themselves So they're always offering you Dice they're always getting you Uh, they're always so they're always maximizing the sort of chip damage that they're doing around They're always putting pressure with their the shooting is not huge They don't have a ton of shooting right, but they're always putting the pressure exactly where they need to You don't have a ton of it, but it is effective if placed correctly Right. Yeah, and so like this is a very movement based army Your pieces need to be in the correct place at all times because they're all made of paper If somebody gets off into your bliss barbs and and manage us to shut off your unleash or Charge with some junk unit first and then they get into it with the thing they really want Right, so your unleashes don't work like those kinds of things are all nightmares for you And so just player playing this list. It just falls apart It's a movement based Army and we're in the middle of a meta where movement is being hampered From every single from every army like the goal of flares is to stop you from moving So if your army is that You lucked out Yep. Yeah, it makes total sense now Exactly Nicholas thanks that the fiends the neg one to hit neg one to wound unit. Yes, that's correct That's what I was talking about the penalties they can pass out There are there are many things in the meta that are actually pretty good against now Just because there are things that there's a lot of things that are unfortunately Kind of around that are hitting on fours And so being able to give them neg one where you either keep them on fours or god forbid push them to fives Yeah, actually will neuter that unit pretty badly. So Um, yeah, they're they're interesting, but that's that's just it this This list is so high skill like in it in it at the hands of an excellent pilot It is frightening and very potent in the hands of basically your average player I don't mean that with any i'm not meaning that in any negative way just reality So the mesh is very the floor and so the mesh is through the roof Right or through this through the basement. Yeah. Yeah It's it's it's so high Because if you just like try to play slanash like a normal army, you just get your teeth kicked in Yeah Um, yeah, that's hydenath right now. That's the same with hydenath the moment they get the sharks out That's that's why it's a bad book in this case slanash. I have my issues with hydenath But slanash is a bad book if you need to be a really good player to play this book That's not a good book There is more than that part of the percentage of people playing this game Like yeah Oh, yes, I'm sorry. I was you're right. Those aren't I was saying fiends are the neg one to hit neg one to wound unit They're not fiends. I apologize. They're fiend bloods. It's the little slangor You're using them as your as your you're they're they're your melee hammer. Sorry everyone. I apologize. I was reading too quickly Thank you Nicholas for correcting me. I do appreciate that Um, yes, you're using them for your your melee hammer effectively. I'm sorry everyone I have seen similar lists where they'll actually do where they'll replace and run Fiends as well. The other so that that's one of the other twists on this list is using fiends Um, I play against that a lot. Yes. Those have actually become popular because they also got cheaper the other thing you'll sometimes see is Dropping of like some of the ally stuff and you'll see a keeper of secrets though. I think that's good money after bad I think the keeper is a total trap In here, she hits like a feather the keeper's average damage in melee is seven against a four up save That's terrible. Yeah Like it's really bad. It is not a 400 point monster um And the yes, exactly slangor can generate a lot of depravity against horde units You want one unit that can go that is your trigger for Uh euphoric killers and that's your fiend blitz. Yeah, my guess is fiend bloods. This is primary euphoric killers twin souls This is secondary euphoric killers Um, because you have to have somebody to go actually go to go out and get you the depravity So they're going to try to find like The unit of zombies or something right where it's like, yeah, they'll take a bunch of damage But who cares they can kill so many of them that they can just like run the count onto gravity way up And they just need to get it up. So they're in there They're neg one to be hit Sixes trigger mortals fives upward like they just need to run the clock up, right? And so like those the other two units that aren't in this list you'll often see as regular fiends Who can also play the melee euphoric killers role like you have to have some amount of it to actually run the depravity Because a smart player will always just as you said will always just be like, yeah, just give me the damage. Just give me the damage It's fine Um and and move on with their life So that's your basically your only route to depravity is to have something like the fiend bloods twin souls or fiends That you can run in there and actually against a horde lower Armor save unit get get away with some kind of depravity Um So yeah, there you go. Um, that's basically the play style. I do think the shard speaker is honestly great Um, she's one of the few really bright spots of the list. I like her with born of damnation I think that's a really good pick on her. I think that's a great spell Um people like you're saying the mask is also a good early depravity generator Yeah, depending it's she's I mean she can go clean up a chaff unit and get you an early euphoric killers Because she's so fast and can get in there like she'll kill a chaff unit easily and that's a great turn one Euphoric killers, so you're not wrong Um, but like I like the shard speaker a lot. She's actually kind of tough to remove between current Uh Yeah, exactly like what's currently going on and she has interesting spell She has a decent little ranged attack. So like she's she's got stuff. She's fine Yeah Or not range attack. Sorry a little melee profile. Apologize when when she casts a spell and gets her little dark claws Like she's perfectly fine And then the epitome does what the epitome does which is actually like surprisingly a lot The advantage to the epitome especially is it's a piece that's actually Very very hard to remove in the current rules because you're out there and be Untargetable outside of 12 and normally what little heroes like that die to is splash mortal wounds But nope To the literal glass the literal glass cannon Is unbreakable? Yes, I mean that's right You don't want her in melee with anything that's actually is going to crack her back But if she gets in melee with anything soft, especially with flaming weapon on she will just tear them up and The fact that she's basically immune to aoe mortal wounds means that she sticks around and is really strong Um, so there you go Is actually good piece. It's a good piece. He's always been good But it's the game that has played this different game. Like he it seems like he doesn't fit Yeah, there's just no world where he where he accomplishes what he wants to accomplish That's the problem right now because since he lost his eye can show up an ambush That's when he stopped being played because he has to march his dumb self across the board six inches at a time Right. Yeah, he is he's playing the uh he's playing the What's his face game? What's her go-treat friend? He's playing the go-treat game and he's a bad go-treat. Oh, you would say go-treat now. Yeah, exactly Um, I would I would also say he's a bad bastion carthalos because like I do actually think bastion is a Is a valid piece in this I walk six inches across the board thing The difference is bastion when he gets there hits like a truck and self heals back to full every fight Okay, and Bastion generates, correct. That's what I was going to say bastion generates a ton of utility Just by existing he's a free command point at at infinite range every turn and he can he can Thunder strike as he's walking across the board, right? Like bastion will hold a flank by himself Uh Sigvald will not Right. Yeah That's the difference Like once Sigvald starts getting wounded, that's it for him. He's just going to die Um bastion gets wounded and then is it full and then gets wounded and is it full and gets wounded and is it full He's a very hard piece to kill Right. Um, so yeah, he's just being he that's that's the difference between those two. That's why he justifies this cost All right, let's keep going. We got a lot more lists. Yeah Nurgle. All right, Konstantino, if you want to take us to this one This is this is nurgle number one We've got to I'll run I'll run people through the units real quick and then you tell us the thing We got blowab with blades of putrefaction We've got orgotts. We've got the glotkin who's now in every list basically Uh, we've got the lord of afflictions our old friend with the overpowering stench Split horn helm. You know it. We love it game one of the nurgle book released This was a unit people are using game five hundred and forty two of the nurgle book released This was a unit people are using it is the combo Then it is a bunch of beasts of nurgle and some rottmeier creed Tell us about hero hammer nurgle This is such a fun list to actually run And it's not you'll see a worse one later, but yeah, you just said it it's I'm vindicated for the glotkin. I've been running in them since the book came out when there were 700 some stupid number like that um The fact that the counter The counter charge even though it's Stoppable because you need to be within 12 of the glotkin It's still such a thing to Try to move out of it's very hard to do. Yeah, if you're army to do it hard to play around You won't have issues, but this one with the double mag of lords. I've seen this one with three mag of lords I've played this one with three mag of lords and the glotkin and just beasts And this is a fun list to play And it's a tough one to play against but nobody's gonna be like, ah, they were everywhere. No four beasts there for a counter counter charge And demon's view is a beach stick. I know tyler was wrapping him. I was like, all right, I have the one and I love blow up but Damn, he's good. Yeah, I have been in or got sand since this book release. I think or gots. I remember. Yeah Yeah, and Of course the glotkin is amazing and it's not that easy to remove because of the constant healing Plus We have the lord of affliction who stops the command abilities. Everybody knows loa or everybody knows how this thing plays The fact that summoning here is quite easy because of the befalling host with two trees You're gonna get your celebrity out very soon. Maybe even turn one depending on the the wheel It's It's a very standard list that are going to see people play. It's easy to run because it's just so many few models There's one two three four eight plus it brought my creed So a unit of ten rod might which by the way the glockin can make two wounds each which is pretty nice with the the spell that they got and it's 10 the garden just put in a grand strategy. It just made this very very Very quickly. I would run this in a one-day air. In fact, I've run something very similar to this in a one-day air It's a fun one But can you go to the next one, please? Let's we don't need to because it's very similar one This one was I'm here to play and the next one is the one that's I'm here to win So that's absolutely. We just need to real quick explain. I just want to touch on a couple things Yeah, blow up and or gots are our two big magoth lords for those not as familiar with nergal So these are the these are your your medium sized heroes or as I call them. This is the tier three Heroes I have five tier hero system, which I'll review on some future show These are tier three heroes and they fit very well into that space. They're absolutely worth their points They do a lot of work. As you said, they're hard to remove. They're good offensive pieces They have good utility etc etc The glockin the powerhouse of this is that he dropped down to a low enough points We can get enough other things in the list and his counter charge ability is letting him off turn Yeah, move things in to charge and so he's being able to bring things like orgots into the fight He wants orgots into from from potentially no one ever gets the fight They want against this like they wanted to charge the lord of afflictions. Nope You you do fine, but you're also fighting orgots and now you're dead, right or something like that. Okay Yeah, so I played big war against this one a very fun game One of the closest games I played with big one and I really really liked it Plus you have blow up who can remove a thing by the spell the one every phase if you got damage d3 damage on the two up And nergal deals damage on every single phase of the turn Which is a fun thing to do cure phase damage With the lord of affliction movement damage when you retreat with the beasts Obviously the charge when you get hit with the impact or arcane ball that you said No, because the the thing about the lord of afflictions with the damage that he deals It's in the hero phase. It's something the start of the hero phase which they changed And it does combo with this one charges the impact move was the material I said combat is combat naturally Battle shock they still have damage they can deal in battle shock because of disease So that d3 piles up a lot So it will melt and if you get caught off it's bad. Yeah taking an extra three four five d three Is crazy. Yeah, it's it's crazy Yeah, and if you get doubled like if you give them the double go on Yep, exactly. All right. So now nergal list two Uh, so here we are. We're in the following list again We've got the great unclean one bellicorbe morbidex the glotkin again Uh 10 plague bears 10 plague bears 10 plague bears So I know what I know how this list works and uh, it's a nice So no, no, I'm not gonna I want you to explain it to people. Go ahead. Yeah, you mentioned the thing with blow up Which you're like, ah, this is so fun. You can do things there or or guts like now This is a good thing now remove all those things. We don't play this game anymore. We're here to win We're here to stop the opponent from having fun from playing Counter charge with plague bears. Good luck removing those things those disgusting things that You know what the geo you they can give them plus one wound how fun with that and you have the Where is he bellicorbe like do you want to do tactics? Good luck choose it choose wisely Like you want to move things or retreat you won't because of bellicorbe the The geo actually I do like him in this specific list because they do what they're saying Right, it's immovable. This thing will not move. You're gonna get charged countercharged by everything. Sloppy is coming up very fast Moravidex deals like crazy This is the second thing that we talked about in this ghp. You will not play this game You'll get stuck in the mud with the plague bears who have minuses to either to be hit and all that It's a battle red. So it's actually, uh It's what how many I think it's three drops something like that I think so. Yeah, I had to cut it off anyway on this screen. So but yeah, I think it's a three three drop This is Disgusting like nurgle would love this Let's let's make this really real for people. Let's go through the play pattern Go ahead because I think people that haven't played against this can't picture how horrible this is like audience In your mind, you're probably still picturing playing a game of warhammer against this list You are wrong Okay, that is not how this list plays this list did not show up to play warhammer This is some tom crap over here. Like I am amazed tom. You're not running this list. I was gonna ask you are I've tried to move away from the like I learned my lesson About not letting other people have fun And so I've tried to move my list out of the not having fun into the Uh, no, I just want to start fighting at the top of one and we'll see where we're at in terms of sure Uh-huh. Yeah, this list is like how to make sure your opponent has no fun the list. Okay. So here's the play pattern I'm gonna get fleshy abundance off on my plate bears. Maybe I do maybe I don't let's just assume I do Now that is a 30 wound you 30 wound unit. Yeah, okay. Uh-huh. All right now on your turn What's going to happen is I'm going to let's just I'm not even gonna let's not even worry about bellicor We all know what bellicor does. He shuts the unit off so they can basically do nothing. Okay. Yeah, so What I that's happening. We know that's in the background But on your turn, what's going to happen is you're going to move something into position somewhere Okay, and then I'm going to Use the glotkins counter charge Okay, now I have summoned I have summoned a slobby biopiper at this point Okay, because I can easily race to the points to get slobby. So he's out Slobby's out to to to to Okay, he's not only not appearing in the list, but he's one of the most essential pieces you're going to see So have you even noticed this is befalling host without having any beast of nargo. It's only the second tree. That's it Exactly. It's just the second tree to race for The the the quick slobby. Okay. That's all you need so slobby's out Okay My plague bears are now going to counter charge my goal is to end a half inch away From whatever unit is relevant that I want to stop And then I'm going to spread them out in and basically like a sort of as wide a formation as I can with those 10 To come within three inches of as many other of your units as I can Okay, I'm going to try to bring if I can get your entire army into combat That is a great day for me But I'm going to try to get every unit into combat. I can at 2.9 inches Okay With just like the edge of a hair of a plague bearer base Is 2.9 inches away from you because when I counter charge Exactly, that's right The the one guy moves and then everybody else just goes and fans out right and is like Touching every unit they can about 20 inches by the way 1032 mils with one inch between it's about like 16 17 18 inches something stupid like that Exactly triangles on the end. Yeah, yes and then the Uh, then slobby comes in and he's like to to to to to to to and he plays the fart song Okay, and nobody piles in and then nobody can pile in So now what's happened is there's one plague bearer within a half an inch Of one model hopefully that's their that's their goal of your Unit and all your other units in combat cannot pile in They're all stuck exactly where they are Okay, and this game state Will just persist Now you can like you're gonna have to retreat or something like that on your turn right Uh, and then realistically what's gonna happen is it's gonna repeat like rinse and repeat They're just gonna keep doing this strategy, right? There's three units of plague bears, by the way, right? No, just the ones three of them. Yeah. So, yeah And as long as slobby's on the table and it within range It doesn't matter which unit of nergal including like, uh, any of the Maga floors, right anybody that they're within range Yep, and so then basically what's gonna happen is there are two big pieces Which is the great unclean one in the glock and neither of whom are like Incredible damage dealers, but they're enough They're enough because they'll just have the fights they want now that your entire army is basically still gummed up Okay And so That is Like what happens is your entire army hits the the brakes goes nowhere Does nothing and then they just pick you apart That's effectively The the strategy of this army, okay So Yeah, there you go Yeah, pretty much and apart from the fact that it's hard to kill the slobby Did they kill him bring another one you just summon another one, right? That's it If you can summon one one turn well, you can summon one into the second one And so on and so forth and the fact that yes, they can actually pile in from outside of three Right, but again, it's models being stopped at some point like yeah coming over How many can you get in that's the thing they are a menace to remove So the fact that you're being stopped from getting piled in and you have three things coming out from outside of three How much damage is that it's definitely not an efficient damage? That's where they That plays you have an important unit that can actually deal with all that bellicord That's why he's there or morbidx who heals all the time The nirgling infestation minus one hit if memory serves Plus you have the wither state which gives disease you're getting disease throughout all this like remember let nirgal plays Plus there's the wheel that at some point it's going to stop you from piling in period Yep, and there's the turn where it's going to be on a two up because of the wither state disease is going to be on a two up And so on and so forth. So this is not going to be a fun game Yeah, and and ramion says I faced this last turn with with my soul blights I wiped this nirgal army at the end of two because he didn't get his bile piper and I made my long charges Yeah, I mean is it too unreliable? No, I mean, it's not like this is an immediate 5-0. I'm not I don't want to know It's not that's not the hyperbole or the thing being said What I'm saying is is that like in the hands of a good pilot this can 5-0 it has that there have been multiple nirgal wins with a list like this some variation on this But regardless of its win potential Right like it and it has been placing highly Exactly as it's just not fun to play against it is a horrible play experience It's like one of the worst play experiences and yes, it's like there are counters to it in the meta you know various like various incendiary sort of castle builds and shooting builds and and bomb builds but Like I don't love the idea that uh that this one horrible thing is stopped by a different horrible thing And we just mentioned that there's a similar list to this The one with the beast and the two mag of lords or even three mag of lords if you remove the lord Of affliction the rothmire, but that's actually a fun list having the three big things and Bees are very basically squigs everybody loves squigs. It's a fun list to play against It's hard to play against as well, but it's competitive. You're gonna feel the wow This was a good game either. I won or I lost because I had the same experience myself And then you just make a few changes. Who needs damage just bring play bears it's And it's more competitive which kind of shows where the game is at right now Clarity on this two things one. It's only demon units that are affected by the farts Yeah, no, no like that's why you have play bears I understand that but I I had mentioned mag of lords like so It's not so I wanted to clarify on that but the other thing is is that um No one in the unit can can pile in towards Like it doesn't matter. You can't pile in within three. That's the problem Is that they can't move any unit in that in that? Uh enemy unit can't move closer To the affected nergal unit There is that if there's a demon if you have this demon here And This unit here you cannot come closer But if this unit has another model outside of three of the demon unit that can actually come closer That can actually pile in closer. Yeah, because if you're outside, it's important. It's models It's models Yeah, so the closest models are paralyzed the ones that outside of three of the plague bears. Let's call it They can come closer but as soon as they hit three they stop No, no, no to pile in it. They won't be able to pile in again They can go closer than three on that pile and move The ones outside will pile in and fight Yes, so you you have to play this right Exactly. It's very clever placement, right? Yeah, because like if they're in a position Where there are other like if you can get there, there are ways where you can get them locked up Where they have no they have no actual fights But either way what's going to happen is maybe they get a couple swings out of each unit and It's inefficient. It's an inefficient attack Against a resilient army. That's what that's an army that's like that is built to not lose models withstand attacks. Yeah, yep Agree, agree The giant rat that makes all the rules 217 people watching and only 80 likes come on step it up chat. There you go That's right. Come on hit hit like for for the fun nergal list and hit like for hoping that this nonsense is broken very soon Okay, let's go to corn Uh, it's corn time Okay I'm just gonna let you take this one completely. This is the first one. This is the scolphine tribe So yeah, both of them are scolphine by the way. Yeah. Yeah. This is the not disgusting one There we have two corn less one is hyper disgusting. This is the one that isn't this is the blood secretor Corgis call a ritualist slaughter, priest priest slaughter, priest Uh scar blood wrath a bloodthirster of unfettered fury, of course Uh, and then 10 bloodreavers 10 bloodreavers 10 bloodreavers 5 garrick's reavers 10 skull reapers A chaos gargant Love it And a skull cannon and then of course the either the hex gorger skulls or the bleeding icon They're both 50 points pick your thing. Okay. Tell us about this one. Obviously you are one of the Uh Foremost well known corn players around we we know your your love of corn goes deep So I am inside you indeed. I don't want to toot my own corn, but I am I love them the thing is Uh, I haven't been playing that much because what you said at the start of the state of the meta And tom you wrote it in the comments. Can you guarantee five battle tactics corn cannot guarantee five battle tactics, right? Right. It just I cannot happen And since we are talking about the state of chaos the state of corn right now is weird like The fact that we saw this thing at the start that they're at the top of the meta in terms of wins It's so weird to me because I just cannot follow it I I don't see it the fact that you cannot do battle tactics that the fact that it's you need to make We're back in the previous book where you had to Jump through hoops to make this thing work. Now this book is great But the game it's playing is not the same Uh, people ask me what don't you like corn? I said no, I love corn I just don't like the game that is so focused on battle tactics and grand strategies Corn does not have a grand strategy right now There is none There is one and we will see it in the disgusting list Which is more disgusting than the nergal one we just discussed pun intended And that one works that one works, but you will see it I really want to see what you think tom about the second one in this one It's the bag of tricks that corn has right now. I'm not going to go into battle tactics. I'm just going to go on how it plays When we first discussed the book a few months ago corgis call was like, yeah, it's a good piece, but there are no big things right now for him to hit and then you were talking about the The executioner in fleshy reports that found the found the axe that the might lord of corn lost Yeah, the lord of corn lost it. Oh free axe. Oh look it makes things disappear. That's my cannon right now for the executioner um So now corgis call has a 19 inch aura of power perceived power Achieved achieved achieved. Thank you Because he will deal damage to anything that minus to rent with six attacks on twos and threes You will get some damage through and then it's a five up And then it's a five up. So now with the vampire lords and the mortars and big things that are going around Including the glutkin the mag of lords and so on and so forth Corgis call is actually a very fun piece to have um Seven wounds on a three up pretty good Cannot be shot five up versus spells and so on and so forth good piece Plus you run him 11 and then you pile in eight If you want if you dare come closer bring that vampire lord and zombie dragon, right? He's gonna be baseball back and so Yeah, blood secretor It's such a great piece. Um That four up rally in this army with so much armor on the mortals. You cannot just beat it Yeah, it's it's amazing if you if you put the null thing on him where he cannot even be targeted by spells You just the whatever whatever it's called that non stall thing uh, it's great the fury thirstor is Amazing I from the first thread. I'm like, this is my jam. He's still really good that minus one hit Is such a big thing the three to six charge in an army that you actually want to Put one good charge in a scalping tribe or eight plus means you fight first This is i'd net every single turn you play And then you have the fact that he ignores wards The argatha king of blades Firebrand makes him a priest double move from the prayers I played a sylvaneth game Where we called it at round four or five and we're like, all right Could I actually kill that thing on the other side of the board because that's why I need to do for my grand strategy? for some reason 12 move 12 move block bind eight Kill it kill him with fire You are actually able to do it And you cannot do it without him. He's 330, but he's worth all of the points scarbladrath Such an amazing piece still the great the grand of this guy again since for yeah Yeah, love him. I don't think I ran a game a single game of corn without him still And send him in kills dies gets better And the fact that you can actually bring him back and you can summon off him It's really good. It's really good and people tend to forget about him You might even forget to roll the eight because it's in the opponents and movement phase as well right, so Such a great piece. There are no bad heroes in this list The ritual is plus one hit on a terrain eight holding within eight around Blood blood boil exists still d6 mortals And then there's the heads or hex gorgeous skulls, which everybody loves. I'm pretty sure And or the bleeding icon, which actually the thing is they can even you can even use them as screens You can screen your army Now when it comes to blood rivers, they are Yeah, they're money 80 points for that for the murder rolls and murder rolls. Yeah, it's 80 points for 10 murder rolls. Yeah Yeah Did you manage not kill them or I didn't get the blood type? But I will bring back five of them or four of them with the bloods crater something like that Yep And then garyx reverse which again, this is a bag of tricks list because do you play against hordes? You have a skull cannon and you have garyx reverse. You're going to be getting blood type Do you play against beefy things? You have the gargant? Minus one save close to him and he can roar And or you have the corgis call beefy things beware Plus the skull reapers which are still amazing The one of the best probably yeah, it's the hammer of the army I'm you're it's you either go scar brand or skull reapers My choice is always skull reapers because scar brand can die They cannot die because of rally on a four up with them. I agree And the three to six charge to remove. Yeah, the three to six charge from them because of a fury thurser Means that where do you want them? They're gonna go there And of course the skull cannon which is a little bit of shooting If you want to remove because I do have bring me worthy skull Which is the one I I like I give up with the grass strategies Just pointed it here. I will try to kill him. That's it And I hate every everything else So skull cannon can make some shooting Well, like with blood bind you can kind of do the lookout sir Thing go away The meteor with three blood type can deal some damage and so on so forth It's always nice to have it's useful for the battle tag that said kill eight things Shoots charges in kids shoots again You will kill eight models from a screen or something And if there isn't if that's not there if there are no hordes for that You use the skull cannon as a screen or garex drivers, for example Otherwise you use a gargantt if there are hordes. You don't really care about the gargantt if there are hordes You use that as a screen So I find this a list of for people who love the joanie aspect of corn Because there's tricks there The the issue with this is that if you play against something that a couple of the things don't work against Well, you're playing with a sort of less than optimal army The thing about corn now and the battle tactics is that What's your turn one battle tactic? Sure. No idea. Surrounded destroy. Let's talk surrounding destroy. Yeah, you could do that You are going to probably go first With this if you are if your opponent says, all right, sure go first and then I might double you So if you're getting doubled the first thing you need to do is double screens So if you do double screen How can you do surrounding destroy when you have to actually send two things away? It's very problematic, especially if you're going to be out of your territory as well Yeah, so counter-intuitive to like can you yeah, it says bring claws of karnak bring furies You're removing your screens the things that you actually want to be in the middle to get hit to get blood type So what are you going to do magical dominance, which is the turn one thing for most people? Yeah, but it's corn. You can still bring bring wizards, which is something that needs to be fixed frankly and so What I see with this list is that I love it. I love running this, but I know I'm going to drop battle tactics If I if they give me first, I don't know what to do There are some things that you might do if you're lucky enough You can do the achillate things if they're close enough you can blood bind the wizard closer But it's so hard if they go first and they come closer Now that's a different discussion because they might be like if I don't go first the skulls are coming closer So I cannot do magical dominance And so I might go first and get closer. I know but you're in the whim of your opponent That's not what you want to be right not when you're playing a We're talking competitive game now Otherwise you're gonna you're gonna enjoy this one There are ways to play against this you go around it. Oh sure you surround it You hit sort of like gorilla tactics. You don't kill things. You do not cast spells against corn Just keep your all your spells for yourself buff yourself. Don't hit me with endless spells. Don't do that Don't kill my screens play your battle tactics and Try to stop me from a couple of them because I don't have many choices stay away from the skull altar Don't bring the things that I can kill easily. Don't bring your wizards close Battle decks are very lean and get four corn right now. Right same with the grass trap All right now. I want to jump to this second list because this is the gross one Yeah, so Okay, let's talk about listen to this tom. I want I want to hear your opinion the the moment you hear what is going on here Okay, so here we are I'm gonna read the list Uh, we have the magister a magister from the coven of thricks Okay, uh Which is the the the pink whore Red smith over now red you're gonna renounce. Yeah zinch in corn. All right. We have a realm gore ritualist We have the blood master Who is the general? We've got a blood secretor. We've got a blood stoker. We've got scar Then we have 10 blood reavers 10 blood reavers 10 blood reavers 10 blood reavers 10 blood reavers 10 skull reavers Okay, then we have the rest of the pink whores from the coven of thricks We have karnak and we have a unit of wrath mongers Endless spells we have the burning sigil The demonic simulacrum and the tome of eyes because those all come with the coven of thricks. Yeah, yes Uh, and the grand strategy four different things the grand. Yeah, the grand strategy is summon turn two three four and five And the blood master has the general trade Start with one blood pay. All right That's it. Do you want to hear how it works? It sounds like what's happening is you're sending a lot forward and having it die And including so your pink whores aren't going to split off, but they're going to generate mortal wounds when when you hit them just like everybody else with the blood The frenzy like the corn blood rolls. You have enough blood reavers to generate a bunch of damage that way That you can actually because of the blood secretor you can rally back And you can keep rallying back. Yeah, it sounds like what you've done is you've created a minefield of mortal wounds But if you touch anything you're going to take damage back and you're going to regenerate those models Maybe and not just that the master is going to make spawns All the time because of the sigil thing of whatever it's called You have turn one auto magical dominance in corn. You cannot it cannot be unbound. That's the thricks thing You do one spell it cannot be unbound. What's the spell the The what's it called the notification? Thank you. You bring that You auto unbind you auto cast and it kills one of the whores that turns into a spawn Karanak can can summon hounds in combat so you can actually stop your opponent from Shooting maybe or moving because of that you do start with one blood type So you can auto unbind if you need there goes your opponent's magical dominance because blood sacrifice is there obviously and or or rather the thing's dying basically and Wrathmongers are going to give plus one 50 percent more damage to your blood reavers if they hit and Their blood stalker is going to send them forward with run and charge You are going to You don't need your opponent casting spells at you because the spawns are going to be dying in droves And you're going to be getting blood type of that you need 12 blood type To do the grand strategy and 12 blood type and this is nothing. You don't even need to get Uh cast from your opponent I hate this with all my mind like I absolutely love the fact that this is a corn list This is very close in corn by the way. Yeah. Yeah, that's what you think about it Yeah, and like did you do you like a dire wolf thing? You can do it with the spawns Karanak just summon in combat because you want to summon flesh hounds every round three Three three blood type. That's it. Who needs murder lust when you can actually summon in combat. So Uh This one plus the other list from for the nergal is by One of the best players in the world gear of adult the top player norway in scandinavia Uh an absolute gentleman that has to play in Atlanta has to play in the absolute top level So that is not playing warhammer. That's going to play against the top So there will be no What's the word? There will be no surrender Sure, and you understand that I hate I hate this list The fact that this is a corn list and this is the competitive list That the top mine in warhammer this side of europe is like That's how you win with corn. Sure auto in magical dominance or a grand strategy Obviously, you're going to do the rest four units dying in a turn. That's a battle tactic for corn by the way. Sure absolutely spawns summons blood rivers and The fact the thricks will do the the endless spells all the time Hate it plus sculfine tribe. So all the charges that are eight plus will go first. Yep This is uh, truly a gross disgusting awful list I hate it as well, but I have to respect Like I hate it. I hate the fact that we've got a wizard the whole zinge covenant hanging out here I hate everything about it. It's so not corn, but like it is but from a tech list Right from not tech lists for as as a techie list Yes uh It is absolutely Like masterfully put together In warhammer. Yes. Yeah Yeah, this is peak johnny right here It really is it. That's so the right thing to say tom. You're a hundred percent dead on like this is the promise of johnny corn just Unleashed Right in the current season. Yeah, I'm not here to play. I'm not even here to play corn I'm here to play something And that's something Is going to Yeah, gonna do it Here, let me show you what my book can do. Exactly. That's what this list is Yeah, all right Let us end then our last list of the night here Or keep the show relatively short because of it's already very very very late where constantina says Is zinge list and this is actually courtesy of of course the one the only Caleb walters if we wanted a zinge list we had to go to the man who's been repping zinge forever You know Caleb so when we did the lore show he was like, oh lord, doesn't matter to me It's like a one on a ten and i'm like, man, that is a lie You love zinge so much and you love its story and everything about it. It speaks to you Okay, uh, so at any rate, uh, this is guild of summoners And we've got a lord of change And a magister a magister We've got 11 bliss bar bar chers showing up so good. They're even jumping over here into into zinge We've got 10 acolytes 10 acolytes 10 zangor Just regular old zangor on foot and then an umbral spell portal a burning sigil of zinge and a suffocating Grave tide and that's the end of list. Oh wait, hold on. Oh wait. No. No, it's not more There's more. Who is this over here with this coalition? That's right. Do you hear the rumble the thunder? of Six verringard with fell spears so um yeah, the Obviously the verringard end up being both somewhat hammer somewhat distraction carn effects all of that kind of stuff You're using guild of summoners to power that out for for a you know, very efficiently You're just pushing out all the lord lord to change And another thing that you will get the battle tactic the summoner lord of change That's the free one for them. Yeah plus the fact that you have the Vanguard it does give you some combat damage And the opponent needs to respect that because the double pylon is on the war scroll It's not a thing. That's right in in the book and Fate of what's the name shield of fate works on them That's the that's a thing. That's a big thing like having a four up or a five up or whatever it is Plus the one they have in their war scroll Oh, that hurts four up versus wounds five up versus mortal wounds or sport the opposite Whatever shield of fate works. I don't really remember it right now With this there's a lot of shooting in this list. There's like 40 shots per turn Yep, and the same with zangor is hitting really hard And the grave tied against hordes. You can deal with that and like 12 Well fate points per turn find it by the by the spells Like this list is obviously, yeah, my first thought was like, all right, let's see what kael is running When we said, right, let's see zinch We we can't sleep on levitate either by the by it like it's the lord of changes spell choice for a reason Because uh, you know, it's better than six vanguard Six six flying vanguard They are the best art the best art that they have is archaeon and then flying over Right, that's the one. Yeah. Yeah. See that's just kaleb. Just loving the lord. He's like Absolutely, absolutely And I mean you get the free you do get the free endless spell to begin with So there will be ways to stop your opponent from moving with gumming up and all that what that we mentioned Yep, yeah Yeah, I mean, this is a really nice again. It's a very techie list. It's amazing to me that all four of the chaos forces have evolved into being like johnny techie lists to execute Like if you look at it, what have we talked about that? And that's one of the reasons I wanted to focus on the four gods because it's like As I thought about how they were playing And this sort of occurred to me as I was putting the presentation together Is like wow every one of these chaos god lists has like a pretty decent skill floor on it We talked about slanish super high skill floor has to be like you have to move all your pieces in this extremely delicate ballet Using the limited shooting you have to hit the exact right pressure point Right constantly using your farming for your depravity Making sure you get your one melee unit in so you can trip you for it killers every round against the exact right target They're going to kill and build the wounds on and so on. Right We talked about the techie nergal build that is like, well, it can gum up the whole army But if you don't get it right or if you fail to get the sloppity or stuff like that things can go wrong We talked about the techie corn build right where it's like you're you're Uh, trying to play what do I play against I'm going to do this Do I play against something like that? I'm going to do that prayers are you cannot deal with them Blood type you cannot deal with it. There's tech involved It's blue black roll over the place. It is. Yeah, it's demir. It's like all the cast gods are just demir top to bottom, right? And then finally the zeep list which each has always been a techie army. Obviously It's not like there's anything incredibly new But again, you know, this army is is other than the verand guard. It's all made of paper right, right, right and So like like if anything of any power gets into your lord of change, you're you're anything that that says battle line that stuff Just evaporates. Yeah, right You need to think of this as a Two lords of change because you will bring guild of summoners wise. There are two there And if you come closer and you don't take them down You're getting zapped. That's right. So, yeah Yeah, I it makes me wonder if like the the meta isn't right for like an alpha Like an alpha one drop list It is like when I see like that's what I'm saying like when I see stuff like this It feels like the meta would be super vulnerable Yeah to um to alpha one drop like If like, I don't know. Let's hypothetically say that we had a one drop Uh list that you could reliably put um Your whole army into the enemy at the top of one That's why the 12 varen guard list right now is so good 12 varen guard alpha strike You can like big why is a big part of the game right now? But big why if you leave if you let big why Fill in with the points. You're done. You need to hit them hard. Hit them fast. That's why my I played against beast Glorators with six Monsters with my big why they came over and they ruined me two alpha strike armies That was the hardest one to play against you don't let the the opponent move where they want to be So alpha strike could be a choice Yeah, even obr obr morgast archai the sixth morgast or eighth morgast archai. That's the first push. Can you deal with that? So, yeah, I think the alpha strike is something that we haven't seen that much But it could be an answer yeah Lord vladix said what about boc slaves to darkness and scaven we talked about them sort of thing I wanted to focus on the main chaos gods here because we only had a limited amount of time unfortunately for the show tonight just just given the Restricted time. Don't worry. We will talk about all of them in the future. We made some offhand mentions I mean, I can summarize it like this None of them are in a great place is really what it comes down to beasts probably being in the best place of those three and that's largely on the strength of Those lists are all going to contain, you know a doom bull and and plenty of bull gore and stuff like that Again, another very techie list to play honestly That's going to use a lot utilize a lot of the stuff we've talked about in the show Of uh of board control and denial. Um, we did talk about Scaven already and passing so I'll leave that where it is They're probably in the roughest spot of everybody right now Relying on like really undercosted dumb things with the terror towers And then slaves to darkness is also in a pretty rough spot right now Sounds the vanguard list, which I think is actually has power Which again, there's that goes right back to the thing we were talking about of skew lists becoming more popular The steam tank skew shark skew varen guard skew like so I think there's probably a larger discussion here that we're We're hinting around the edges of right? Yeah, imagine if in the new edition, sorry cut No, what like my my thought here is that is Let me just I kind of want to leave on this and then we'll wrap it up but Like this is my final thought As the meta has tightened Which has undoubtedly happened right like overall you look at win rate stuff they Uh They you know win rates have collapsed in things are getting a lot tighter You get more armies at the four plus win you see more armies being four one and five o Across the board right skill has mattered more and more at the same time as things have become tighter One of the natural sort of things that then occurs is if anything breaks the mold slightly Then it instantly becomes a skew Right because as everything has gotten tight If one thing pops out of that and is an outlier Wham you can just exploit the living bejesus out of that in a world where all the where the where the Where the plot or the scatter point plot is wild You actually are pretty incentivized to be all over the place Right in a world where everything grips tightly to the balance line The one outlier that sits there is like immediately within this suddenly sharks. Yep everywhere I think I know what you're gonna say tom be said imagine and you're going to the old world You can have that if you have that no spamming For the real knights you need to have the isn't that what you were thinking? Yeah, it was basically like imagine if in list building like we it moved like Heaven forbid. I don't ever want to go back to like a core unit special units like restrictions on so many whatever right But imagine if we moved more towards the space of Like even we've begun to see this in the book designs as an aside You can have hop grots. You can have hop grots if you have Yep, yeah gut rippers Yep, like I can imagine a world as we move forward where like I would love a space where we move towards the like what is what is tyler call it hard mode or um Highlander highlander highlander like highlander where you can only do one of each unit Like I love those types of incentives like us moving towards that space now I don't want to like hard bake that into the system But I would love if Because right now the system incentivizes skews Yeah, like I think probably one of the most I don't even know if it's super incentivizes it I think it's just the natural emergent property of the way the the current meta is balanced in place Sure, all the bliss barbs all the morgas all the blood reverse all the sharks Yeah, like the reality is is that one of the strongest EpiC lists that I've I've turned out is something that I just would never want to play in an event because it's so Skuity thousand ghouls. No, that's one. That's one possibility. The other is the you put in your entire army Into like up in the heavens and into the enemy with the like Oh, sure. Um all bats The gore and then the all bats. No all bats. Well, no, it's two it would be two units of bats and one unit of flares because Um, you want to maximize like your all out assault in the different phases and stuff like that And that's the best way to do that Is to get you go shooting and movement and all that and everything comes down from the heavens And if if you get heaven forbid you get that arch regent Spell off when you're backboarded because then everything that drops down moves forward to these six inches After it drops down. And so their charges are anywhere between like Uh, seven inch charges and because of the plus one army wide. Yeah. Yeah, and it was between seven and three three inch charges, right? Basically all your all your models have three to six charge. That's what it means Essentially, yes. Yeah. Yeah, everybody has three d6 charge and And he's needing a seven And everybody's needing a seven and you're you're setting up, uh, 1600 points Off of the enemy line. Hello, banger wing. Did you miss us? Yeah, right? I mean, that's what it is. It's It's like when you yeah, I don't want to I don't want to I agree with you completely, tom That's what I'll say but like I actually don't this is going to be more a discussion when we talk about You know the old world whenever that happens But obviously they did spoil out that or they they shared out the article on army building just this is my final thought to your point That core special rare and such breakdown like the reason we we want to allow people to build a list They want to build this because we want to leave it open for sort of narrative players and stuff like that And for people who want to run a bunch of big flappies and those kinds of things I don't have any issue with that You could actually still keep that world and have the like core special where Core special rare percentage changes You could just have like the armies of renowned model like we have now Where the fluffy narrative that people take monsters just say like okay in this army You're unmounted terror geyser core. Just go nuts. You can have as many of them as wings of dracothea Like it's an army of renowned You get these units Yeah, so you can like you could have those kind of concepts as as guardrails on the game normally And still allow the the narrative players the people who just want to have fun To still play their lists through the armies of renowned and other types of like escape hatches like that Right. Yeah, where the overall power level of the thing falls and is constrained But you can take as many of the goofy ball unit as you want like if that's your idea go nuts Imagine if we did that with no battle tactics Sure, like what a world what a world would we be in? Because you have a player now that's like I can run three big pigs and all the little pigs That's amazing. That's best warhammer ever while we're thinking here. Yeah, but no war chapter Two different types of games Exactly. That's right All right, well, yeah, most gripes go to the fully competitive scene. Otherwise the game is Healthy, it's really healthy. Exactly. Yeah, exactly All right. Well everyone there we go. Thank you so much. Hey, if you didn't hit like yet Why don't you do that? Uh, we're glad we did this at an earlier time. Thank you, Konstantinos for being here My pleasure holiday starts very soon and is relaxing. I know with uh with young twins It probably won't be but fingers crossed you get a few minutes there for yourself Uh, for all of you out there who watched thank you so much. We really appreciate it Hit like hit subscribe hit all those things that make all the dings all that kind of stuff Uh, and if you want to support the show, hey, guess what in this holiday season There's lots of ways you can do so you can share stuff Uh, that's free doesn't cost you anything. There's amazon links down below If you're buying anything any last minute christmas hobby gifts, maybe hit up an amazon link It's down in the description. Uh, it costs you nothing extra and it gives uh, uh, the channel a little bit of a kickback It supports the show. There's a little there's a merch store down there Maybe you want to buy somebody a cool warhammer weekly merch that will definitely not arrive by christmas Uh, but you know, you can give it to them in the new year and say, hey, I thought of you Or as always, of course, there is a uh, there's a patreon down there focused on hobby and review and feedback and taking your next step Maybe you've got a new year new army project coming up. Maybe that's the right thing for you to get that motivation going Either way, thank you so much for watching and supporting it Uh, we really appreciate it. We'll be back next week with the end of your wrap up slash christmas show slash all of that But as always, uh, we thank you so much for watching this one And we'll see you next time. See you next wednesday