 Thank you for tuning in to another episode of 420 grams. Now the focus of our attention on this show was the recently concluded Indian women's league that took place in Ludhiana and Sethu FC Walked away as the winners of the second edition of the Indian women's week Third edition perfect start to the show But of course I'm joined on this show by two people who were there and watched it from an arms distance Siddhanth, Annie and Aditi and also to talk about just the women's game and where it is right now We've got a seasoned journalist Sharda Ugra standing under a tree because that is next-level dedication Sharda respect It's great to be here. It's very hot. My sacrifices for Indian football are enormous So I'm gonna start Sethu FC first and foremost deserved winners for you guys. Were that the best team on show? I think maybe Aditi should take the question because She was actually covering it from the perspective of a reporter. I was just generally Hanging around checking out the scene, but there were many teams. I think that were up to a decent standard, no? Yeah, Manipur for one and which were also the finalists with Sethu. Bala Devi. Yes and then there was Gokulam SSB these are all teams and players from teams that we spoke to and They were quite good So what was the sense that you got from them and you were talking to these guys and you know You were talking to them about stuff around football and you know Because when you're talking about women's football is still not as evolved as the men's game right now I think the two major kinds of teams that we spoke with were One set of teams were teams whose players and I mean these teams didn't get any funding and Their players came from community programs And then the other teams were for example Manipur we didn't get a chance to speak with but we watched them play closely And then there was SSP there was Gokulam Colapur say to all these teams had players who were national players six to seven each in fact and So the general sense was that As a league I mean you can't really compare all the teams Can't I don't think pitch them against each other because the level of playing then obviously was very different So I think the system that they figured out to for what it's worth make it balanced is that they asked the state federations to have State leagues for women So only those states would be eligible to play in the women's league that have conducted state leagues So to may have a some kind of a starting point Team So as a consequence of that Like she's saying the range of teams or their quality and whether they are semi-pro absolutely amateur is Different clubs like Gokulam which have an existing structure and an understanding of football clubs perhaps a little bit more money They have made us sort of they've given contracts to their players and tried to build a team that has all the paraphernalia at least of a professional squad Including sort of video analysis and a media manager and you know all these little bits and burbs So so yeah, I while the others like Bangalore United Who in fact is being coached by a lady called Chitra? Who's one of the oldest like she played the first women's international that India ever played first in 1975? Yeah, respect and she's been involved with the sports of massive amount of experience She has and an extremely sort of interesting lady to talk to because she must be what in her mid 50s now Or actually older probably and but she's constantly updating herself doing the latest badges coaching badges Doing grassroots programs whatever she can to learn and learn ways of I suppose imparting The knowledge of the game to as many people as she can so Sharda you know you've been covering sports for a long time and Just the fact that the conversation around the women's game has moved beyond key Mujhe khelne ko nahi milta. Mujhe society mein khelne ko nahi milta to the fact ki ab kya game mein ho rahe What the game is all about do you suppose that in itself is you know suggesting progression for the women's game And I've been following Stories of the women's footballers who came on your program and then you It's just a we need to find that there's something there No, and that is there and the moment it increases Sort of it will start Gathering face what I wanted to ask Aditi for example is what what did she find with the physical level of the players that were there because they are seeing women playing football At another level the world cup women's world cup is this year What did you find in terms of their physical capability never mind what the technical skills are what was the physical Sort of the level over there it would have been uneven I was doing and I want to know how the banglots This is what we were talking about in terms of the community program So when we spoke to for example Amulia now, she's a 34 year old mother of one and she's actually captain And she's also coached there back home and then there's paramita say Sit and these are women who are much older in age But if you're talking about physical capabilities, they seemed fit and there's stamina and the running I mean Those are women's What was it like to sort of watch women playing football at that length? You know a few days ago There was an incredible video about women's rugby that turned up which was like wow and it would be good to see this kind of How women's football is represented even in the public sphere as in what it's made to be I mean, I'm thinking about it that bend it like Beckham came like years ago Because I think I know that 10 years ago 15 years ago. You know, so there has to be a bend it like Beckham moment I'm not sure that that that is what will take it forward because football is a big sport I'm standing in Bombay where I just moved from under the tree Something's been cleaned by a slightly And I just watched this football matches being played On a on a rooftop on a rooftop of football ground full football size ground Till about 2 3 in the morning got up in the morning at 6 o'clock in the games are still on so football is There, you know, it's So how do you pick up this sort of mania that there is women now? How do you pick it up and you move on with it? How does it look women's football become part of the cultural conversation like say badminton? You know, I even wrestling or boxing or whatever that's what I'm interested in I and I find the The women's league really something that's just heartening and you want to continue And and be regular not to that's a cancel over I think because of several factors coming together and the fact that For one FIFA gives a lot of development money for the women's game all over So conducting the leagues at least at a showpiece kind of national level is pretty much a mandate now They have to do it. So it's unlikely to disappear But in terms of the organization, how do you think or what you spoke to a lot of players? What was the sort of sense that they gave you in terms of how it was organized put together in schedule? So there were majorly two things that I think came up one was that I mean obviously a lot of women I think most of them whom we asked about organization spoke about how it was off-season And it was that it was extremely hot and they had to play all day in that heat There were a few days where the weather was okay, but other than that Okay is 35 There's a lot of us so even though a lot of people spoke about how AIFF is I mean this is the third league and They've become better in terms of organization in general But there were a lot of things that the women did not agree with One is that the this is exam time So a lot of women who are good and who wanted to come and participate couldn't because they're back home giving exams Women who got out of the league sooner. So for example, you have Panjim These are women some of whom have to go back home in the next day is their economics paper for example, you know I just just taking you from what Sharda was saying earlier. How can we cultivate a culture? Yeah, I think what culture wala Indian women's league Thoda us my time. Hey, I think that culture can be cultivated through the success of the national team And if the national team starts building on what they've done Then you know that culture will slowly slowly and the conversation around it will happen like the same in cricket man Women's cricket how they started performing? Yeah at an international level. They were amongst the best in the world Now they are amongst one of the best in the world and so the same way like we were having that conversation yesterday Yeah, so if there is a team which can really go and reach the World Cup an Indian team It's the women's team not the men's team and the way they're progressing right now. What is it 44? 63 63 63 Which is not you way off with the exit poles or not 63 say to come to 20 in the women's game. I know it's On the Football no What you're saying about what you're saying about the Fact that is a women's team that is going to give you more than the men's team. I mean three hundred and thousand times That is that is very obviously good to happen. So women's sports are always You get first-mover advantage if you're smart enough. We have lost first-mover advantage over football about 25 30 years, you know, so but what is what we've got What I did he was talking about the you know the league it was held at the office even there were exams This is almost like a very sweet short way of handling. Okay. We'll do it. So, let us do it like this that We'll do it at this time. Oh, I don't know these women will come and play. It's okay Oh, so you're not showing genuine serious commitment to calendar and slotting this incorrect Properly at a proper time. So it might just sound like grumbling, you know But you have to have some sticker you I think this is the third leg in four years of ideas It's not been it's not been Consistent enough. It's not happened You know, and now what are you going to do with the women that are not going to play in over 17 women What is that schedule and calendar going to be like, you know, why didn't you? Make Go viral by yourself on social media all the time put her out send her to TV All those kind of things that's what you need to kind of I don't know. I'm again like not taking any sides in this but From an organizational standpoint, it's very difficult for anyone to sit in Delhi Let's say and make a structure and say this is how we want the league to be Simply because we don't know how many clubs will have the way with all the players that the money to even show up to this tournament now so it is there's a lot of ad hoc ism and a lot of the organization is just because Karna to head But the starting point is that only key at least Karna to show you That's one and just one one more thing to come back to what you were saying about the physicality and maybe a little bit about the technical aspects also of the game The improvement over the past three seasons in this league has been tremendous I Forget about forget about that. Even if you look at how some of the better teams played Their first match of the tournament and how they played maybe six matches into the tournament Because simply because all these players had then been together they practiced together They got to know each other the communication was better and Therefore they were playing this level of play also went up as the tournament went along Hurry up. Hurry up. Hurry up. Is it that or which is a little bit more patient because I was very happy and surprised to see 14 Next year, I hope it will not be I hope it let me speak it, you know The progression will continue because whatever conversations we have with people in the effort whether it be Abhishek Yadav Who's directly involved in you know making the schedule of the women's league and the international and of course the national team and everything And it is a major part of their plan and I have a feeling and yesterday we had the I would say privilege of attending the press conference of the coach and the technical director and For me that technical director came across as someone really sound someone who knows what he's talking about Of course, that is just a press conference and that was day four into his job What his job will actually entail him to do and how he will really conduct that job after five months Oh bad ki bath. But so far the signs are there. Yeah, anything else that you came across in The women's league through your conversations with the players and everything. What's what's the financial situation like are they being paid? It's incredible actually because even the autos that we would take to the stadium Even around the people the people around the stadium the autoguys who would drop us to the stadium. They're mostly local guys I mean, I would see the same guy almost every day Even they didn't know there's something like this going on inside. No one did So many girls School children have dough, it's good. Okay. It's a it's a just do something just do something At least if the girls like like the Dalima chicken goal is that in that event in Nepal the ground was full The ground was back You know, so I we're also going to back the ground But I think along with the whatever they do about the women's they need to fill in all these other little gaps You know How will that happen Sharda? I mean, you've got it in Ludhiana Yeah, but you don't think they look at people who watch all sports I understand But the only thing is you have to literally then try and work backwards and say okay now where can they play this where people will come and walk Yeah, Chota Chota Chota round Chota round in the stadium make a new year. So there are school may look I ain't gonna take me a school may let's say there are a thousand people in that school You have a ready-made captive audience have it in the school What is the why have it in a 20,000? You're making the best players in the country play inside a school India versus Nepal I will Blame for that, but you need to give the women an audience you need to get every athlete an audience It's just that that I think whatever is being done towards making women's football work There were way like you're talking about the technical director Abhishek Yadav and how trying to look the calendar. Maybe this other stuff also has to get filled in a little bit Think of it as like the social media side of women's To be filled in and create these little personalities and characters and do something around it because there is an interest and it doesn't cause money And venues are very important like a cricket is having a problem filling ground for test matches So they're trying to say let's move to boutique smaller venues and imagine a sport like cricket where infrastructure is such a Hustle and such a and you are able to create some dirty grounds or whatever So the spin-offs from success of a sport are huge Since you brought up the money Gokulam was the only club From either the ISL or the iLeague that had a team No, this is something that I was reading otherwise also that a lot of people one main criticism is that you need to make it longer So that even the national players and whoever is getting paid at all Their contracts then can be extended and they can be paid for a longer time She was saying there were players who are not being paid? Yeah, not at all. So I mean most of the teams actually they weren't being paid at all And most of the teams that we spoke to like I'm talking about teams. For example, there's Bangalore There's Baroda. There's Panjim Academy kids. Yeah, these are teams that just they're just there Baroda for example I think their Academy is getting funds, but for them to come play here. There is nothing at all these there are a lot of women who One a lot of them don't have jobs at all. I mean there are only a few states for example There's Urissan, there's Manipur where you also have a lot of state backing So these women who get into football then that they have that incentive But for most women who get into football, you don't have an incentive at all So when you talk about the culture for football growing that else that is also something that I think you need to consider So what's the motivation then as a sense like Paisa bhi nahi milre job bhi nahi milre? The motivation guy you said there was a 34 year old mother Yeah, what was the motivation to come and play? Her motivation is that now she's a Yeah, I mean actually it's extremely sad because at the end of the day I mean however much you love a game it's still I mean like it is for men It still needs to get you some sort of money in yeah, I mean you need to run a home But that's not what happens in women football at least not that I've seen at least for the four days or whatever Whatever will be there for a six-week man tournament league and which is really sad So most of these women who are coming from teams Yeah, so for example Delhi ki team and that went through Keto Keto is an online funding Cloud funding yeah, yeah, yeah Only that that's about it all their funds went into coming coming going to Ludhiana and staying there etc etc Apart from that they're not getting a penny Fair enough at least that's a step ahead that's a start You know how you can bring in some income or the other So like Gokulam for example Biggest payers No, so the issue with Gokulam or the criticism level against Gokulam before the tournament when the tournament began Was that they didn't have a single Kerala player in their roster So then the owner of the club as well as the coach explained the situation to us in some length Basically saying that the sports quota jobs in Kerala are taken by basketball, volleyball, athletics etc Right football women there are no jobs So therefore there's no incentive for women Yeah, they would rather become nurses or schoolteachers or whatever else they're doing whatever Play other sports Other sports to Kaili Reha There's a fencing academy in Kerala Fencing, sports authority of India has a fencing school where a fencer comes from So I'm thinking that in terms of the investment input per athlete and you do a mathematical calculation of the space of the ground And how many people can occupy it Football is a no brainer But I must be optimistic, optimism is required at a time like this I feel, I know I'm not, I shouldn't be but Anjani is saying like you have to be optimistic If you're not optimistic then you'll just collapse and say ok nothing should happen No, no, no, I'm just optimistic I'm seeing from where you had something Nothing So something happened, it started and then slowly slowly you need to build on it I agree with you, now that it started you have to build on it Anjani that you didn't have a league for 2 years My impatience comes from my generation saying that boss we have been liberalized 25 years ago Come on, there is money, there is money to be given, there is money to be made Energize, do something, that is where my impatience comes from I understand your part of you If your generation is impatient Sharda, can you imagine what the kids these days must be like Exactly No, but this is why I think the rate of change has been accelerated Because as impatient as we are We also sort of have less of a stake in it now I think to some extent These women who are whether it's young reporters who are starting out to do stuff or players They have much more sort of to invest or to gain or lose or whichever way it is From how the system No women are outstanding, women are okay You cannot even imagine how they are able to do this It is beyond my comprehension, how they are able to do this Yeah, I know and purely from a game perspective also I mean you can hate me all you want It didn't feel like football is happening, why should I watch it? So that is why all the chatter was around issues, society and so on and so forth But now this season, I'll tell you I've seen 2 matches though But in 2 matches I've come to know that the game is so much better The ball is being kept on the ground, they're moving it around nicely And then the final, it was like the way Sethu had a plan That was good to watch man, the plan worked and they got them on that Even Pandit was watching it means I was watching it as well, yeah So I think 1200, 1200, 1500 people were watching online So it's a start The final Also one more thing, marketability factor I feel women athletes, it is so much easier to market women athletes I suppose to male athletes because the general male athlete is a dumb guy He can't speak, they don't know how to speak And these guys have put up a story right now on NewsClick Where they've done interviews with all these female athletes Who are playing at the Indian women's league And you can make out just how well, how articulate they are At the point they want to make and what they're saying is so clear and crisp So that is something the AFF should jump on man That day Dalima and Aditya were here, they spoke so well We didn't talk, we talked So that's that, anyone else has So it was interesting, two things that were interesting One was that a couple of senior players actually said that The Ludhiana tournament was better than the one in Shillong Which is the first one No, the last one Wrong on every count No, no, no Which is surprising because northeast at least crowds are guaranteed There's interest is guaranteed But they were talking from a logistics and organization point of view So things are getting a little bit better The other thing was when we did our last round When they did their last round of interviews The players were extremely reluctant to come and have a chat Why? All the conversations everyone was asking them about Was which uncle, brother, father inspired you to play football How did you start playing? The inspiration, the struggles They were like basically, we don't want to do all this, let it be That's progression Leave it now, talk about football So the minute we say we'll talk about football They're all up for it Last comment, I think we've gone way over time Sharda, you just paid 90 bucks for the toll So we'll start with you Not me, I'm very kindly being My friends are dropping me to the airport I've just moved back to Bangalore So, but it's been fun, it's been fun Thank you Thank you so much for joining Thank you so much for joining This was like next level reporting On the move Thank you Anadithi, any final words from your experience in Lothiana and everything? Yes, so this was my first time reporting football Women's football, I was very lucky to do that Just I think there's a lot of scope for these women Most of the women we spoke to There's a lot of stories that come up That really people need to hear about There's so much that needs to be said about the game About the technicalities And then about why these women Like Sharda was saying, I mean why are you even doing this When there is no backing Like there is no backing, financial backing, etc And then when you come and say that men Don't speak and women do I think it's also because they have a lot to say I mean in terms of just being able to No, there is a dumb factor I think the manager is purely dumb We don't know how to speak I mean we learn as we move on So there's just, yeah I mean it was great It was great, perfect and bhai Agree I mean they definitely You guys have done a couple of stories right Can you tell us what stories you'll be putting out On news click which people can watch Yes, so we did a story a few days back I think the day after the final Is when it got released It's called football on the margins So this is where we spoke to Baroda Bangalore and Panjim Spoke to them about how they reached Lodhiana In the first place, how they reached the IWL And where they come from What's the backing in terms of the state that they come from Is it a state that has a culture of football Like Goa does, but mostly just for men And not for women as much And yeah so I think And look forward to any more stories coming up This one And I think we're coming up with another Features Yeah, something on setu Something on setu, not bad bro Okay Aditi, Sadan thank you so much for joining us Guys as promised I don't know, this is the camera So as promised, one weekly episode On Indian football Keep tuning in to 420 grams On news click Coming to you from Thailand next At the Kings Cup That sounds weird