 We have a downtown master plan that I botched and saying it was the master downtown. No, that's no, that's okay Either either way is probably fine I just want to make sure that there's a distinction between the downtown master plan and what is sometimes referred to as the master plan But it's technically the city plan The entire city that's the entire city plan. That's a separate document There's a lot of work that's happening on that right now. Oh, is there? Oh, yeah So there's what kind of work is happening on the master plan. Yeah, so the master plan is a document that we have to have for the state and There are different chapters that we have to have and so many of those chapters are being farmed out to different committees so for example, we have to have a chapter on energy and so the energy committee is Working on writing that right now and there's a transportation chapter See when people think about the master plan and think of the master plan in terms of zoning Is is that portion being hashed out again? No that So there are tweaks that we That we are continuing to work on With the zoning zoning on savings pastor. Is that pretty much settled? None of the tweaks that I am aware of I guess we did we did change something on savings pastor, but it was it was to Bring One housing density line up to match another housing density line Exactly, there are there's lots of these little things that we're still working on I mean that was a year long Yeah, that was significant. That was significant. It was great Glad we're through it actually But it needed it needed doing anyway, that's but I just want to make sure that that's a So we're talking about the recent plan. Yes for for just the downtown Yes, and it's how do we define the downtown that's in that plan? What are the boundaries of that plan? That's a great question There's so there's a map and so it includes the Includes Main Street down to Memorial Park and includes Confluence Park and includes all that space up to I think Taylor Street And and that would be Confluence Park. Yeah, right exactly and then goes to the library Yeah, I'm sure to think of what the I can't I don't recall what the northernmost boundary was it included Langdon Street and So anyway, we actually got to see some of the first outcomes from some initial outcomes I can explain what those what those initial outcome what the highlights of the initial Yeah, well, so they looked at two different plans and with you know with the goal of improving the pedestrian and bicycle experience for for Pedestrian as a bicyclist downtown and and also just to you know and increase the you know vibrancy and whatnot, but So there it was pretty clear that one of the plans was was going to be Better in a lot of ways It included a lot more trees in the downtown one of the things I thought was street lighting I think it was uniform street lighting. Yeah, that was one of the things there was one of things I thought was particularly interesting was the possibility of curbless Streets on Langdon Street to make it more of like a festival streets. I Guess that was a new term for me, but it's I think it's obvious sort of what it means But you know with this idea that It could with without curbs Could just could more easily turn into sort of an open sort of free Space for for pedestrians if we ever wanted to go towards a pedestrian mall on Langdon Street That would allow for that they weren't recommend weren't making a recommendation as to whether or not we should go to 100% pedestrian on Langdon Street, but it leaves that as an option What was the final recommendation on Elm Street? Well, so let's I just want to be clear there None of this was final recommendation. Oh, let me rephrase it. It's okay. What was the recommendation for Elm Street for Elm Street? Wasn't it one one way? No so There was consideration of one way on Elm Street in the scoping study that we were talking about previously, but we ultimately ended up Not pursuing that and I don't think that was a part of this the downtown master plans recommendations either But another one of the interesting aspects was in front of City Hall Having more of a plaza feel it seems like the space in front of City Hall is not necessarily well used at the moment and so it was a revisioning of that that space and They recommended some permeable pavers, which I was very interested in I okay. I have to ask what is a permeable paver? well, okay, so You could think of them as kind of like cobblestones, but they're But they're not stone necessarily. They're like a like a brick clay Kind of thing I should I'm still learning about it myself in all honesty. I was very I've been very skeptical about permeable pavement. I I'm also very hopeful about permeable pavement because it's It's something that I think we we really need to be exploring For a storm Water drainage, but permeable pavement has just not had a great durability in our climate But permeable pavers are much More common in Europe places that have freeze-thaw cycles like we do and These seem to last and there's a gap. So you can think of it as like a bathroom tile. I suppose Where or it's got a freeze cap I suppose so I mean I don't know but I but apparently they doesn't buckle right so they're not they're not gonna be breaking up They're not absorbing water themselves, but there's a gap between those pavers and the next paver so that water can actually infiltrate and That that seems like it's working elsewhere. So it's worth exploring. I don't I mean I still You know, it seems like there's still some research to be done there, but I'm very interested now What's timeframe on this implementation? It's this one. This is long-term from what I gather. It's similar to the Scoping study the traffic study that we were just talking about again. There's a lot of elements to that, but it's going to Be incremental Some depending on the rebuild of the realtor street. Yes So that is actually one of the driving factors. We actually started the downtown master plan knowing that The realtor bridge was going to need to be Fixed replaced because it's it's old and needs the work and that's a main artery obviously in our Downtown and it's gonna when that happens when that's a state project. It's yep. Yep. It's a state highway. Yeah, technically and it is going to be a major disruption in the in our downtown and so we wanted to be thinking about like, okay if we have to if we have to close The realtor bridge for its repair then Let's have a plan for things that we can be doing alongside of that project to increase the vitality and pedestrian experience On the other end of that That construction any idea when that's gonna happen. I would put it in the ballpark of the next five years This really is long-term thinking. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it could be three years, but it's Because we're not that that project is not gonna happen without some significant grants and so We're sort of just waiting to see, you know, what the how that works out Now this is so painful to even talk about. Yeah a premise of this downtown plan was the parking garage. Yes Yeah, no fair enough. So there is One of the the hopes of this plan was that it would not in increasing the experience of bicyclists and pedestrians downtown the goal was to not Lose a significant number of parking spaces and That was so part part of the planning is predicated on The existence of a parking garage to support parking for the city. Where are we? Yep, so We are currently in in litigation which is to say that It's before the environmental court and Is there any chance of arbitration before it goes to the environmental court? No, I would say well, I mean I for for my part mediation I am always open to that Looking to find a Way to resolve this outside of the court. I think that's always best But you know what we did we did try that weren't able to work it out and so so Yeah, so we're currently a court may sorry may a May date for the for the court Sorry, do you mean like when it would be exactly I I don't know I couldn't tell you But it's on it it's ongoing So the recreation Center, let's stay around in this neighborhood. Sure. What is what is the status of the recreation Center? great question, so You mean the one on Berry Street. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, so that That building needs some significant work upgrades. Are you talking about the shooting range? Well, the shooting range has since been closed, but it is not ADA accessible AB AB oh Accessible for people with disabilities and It has asbestos and There's and what there's there's no sprinkler system in that building so there are why are we talking about? Repairing it and just not raising it if it's in such bad shape. So that's a great question so we did look at the possibility of Actually selling that building and then building a new facility, but a new facility would be Very expensive and we even without a swimming pool even without a swimming pool and we asked you know folks what what they you know would be willing to spend tax money on and and They there was not a lot of support for raising taxes for a pool And even without the pool you're saying it would have been a very sizable. Yes Yes, and it exactly and and even so it's also a sizable investment With this facility it is It was going to be expensive Basically either way And so it came down to a policy question of like would we rather find a new location or is this location? Advantages enough that we would rather keep those people those few that don't know where this is It's a cross from the senior center on berry street down from the church. Yes And it is a historic building. I mean it is It was an armory. It was an armory It I think it is an asset to have a recreational Accessible facility downtown But it needs to be accessible. And so we are looking at improvements that would Would do all those things I just mentioned hearings where you'll show the The graphs are the drawings. Yeah, so we already had one of them Earlier gosh, this was in January Really to get a sense of like where the community was at with this And that was very well attended. It was And it's on our website. Yes. Yep. It was it was great meeting really thoughtful questions and then And laid out sort of what the plan would be It's also been at council a couple times for some feedback And that was that was also really useful. Now there was a discussion as to whether it was going to be on town meeting balance Yes, what was that discussion like? Well, so we They're yeah, right. So there was some discussion about you know, should we try to Educate the public with what information we have now In time for a march vote But then in a certain sense the decision was sort of made for us in that actually one of the point people on the With the architecture firm that we were working with actually passed away. And so we decided, okay I mean, there's that organization still working with us on this project and But we figured it would probably be wise to Not try to push for march, but it's thinking we have two elections coming up We have the primary election in august and we have the general election in november Which one do you think? If you had the hazard of gas, we will see a bond issue Well, that's a good question. And I think it actually depends on another factor as well, which is a potential bond for the what's The the property that is next to the drawing board The moat property the moat property tks. Yeah, so now the moats just to bring people up to speed with it The moat trust owned eminem beverage The city swapped land for the path that goes through there In exchange for the building rights next to the drawing board and there was a discussion I don't know why i'm saying this. Yeah, you're doing a great job In exchange for the right for them to build a building Which would be the same height as the other buildings if you'll take the story from there Sure. So that project Ended up not going through we still were able to do the the land swap But it's a it's a little bit of a complicated story, but the bottom line is that We ended up Basically saying that we didn't Like yeah, gosh, it's like how much how deeply into the story do we go the point is We currently owe we currently own That property But we also owe the state money for that property. So we either need to Sell it which was the original plan And pay the state back Or we need to bond for it and buy out basically the state's interest in it And so if say we wanted it to be open space a park or Or do we want to build a building or do we want to build a building and so We Basically this question has to be resolved this year 2020 and that doesn't give us a lot of time Crocs, I'm not going to nail you to a specific. Yeah, hundreds of thousands. No. No, it's it's like 130 It really is but when we're talking about the rec center, we're talking 3.5 to 5 million. Yes. Yes, right Right. So I I suspect that's very likely that We may have a bond vote On the on that property in In august and so then the question I think becomes You know, do we ask for a bond at the same time? Or you know for the rec building or do we Wait until there's a larger voter turnout exactly larger voter turnout in november and You know, I I don't it's not clear to me yet Which the the rec building bond will go on so we'll see but we think it will happen this year I think I think it's um, It's unnecessary to delay it past this year if we were to authorize that bond issuance Approximately when do you think we would actually see The rec center that would be open? It's a great question. Um, so the Architects told us that the the makeover of the rec building would take approximately 12 months And that's a lot of disturbance For activities that happen in that building and so Just to to follow the timeline I'm You know projecting out here a little bit, but So let's say we had a bond in either august or november That would probably mean that we wouldn't start to see work actually being done For at least probably six to eight months after that But then we're talking 2022. Yes, uh, right exactly 2022 is I think the soonest we would see The facility totally done and open now, let me ask you another question Okay, will there be houses on savings past year when that thing opens? um, well Would I like to see housing on savings? Yes. Well, you would have answered that in 2013. Yeah Well, and I you know, I think there's certainly the the possibility But you know, we'll we'll see I think the You know plans plans like that take time to develop But that's a long time in that particular case Well, so even with you know the possibility of of a developer If if say there was a developer who's interested now It it would still take Time to to Figure that all out. Do you think we'd see challenges as we see challenges on the parking garage? I think it would depend on whether whatever was designed For that space was in The same spirit as the the plans that were developed some years ago with the together with the friends of savings pasture and And what I think is is now actually reflected in the zoning And so I think as long as It's kind of you really can't plan something against the zoning and I think that really does capture What part of what that agreement really was so I I think it It has a has a better shot now than it perhaps it would have in the past Now let's come back into town. Are we going to see anything next to the distillery? Do you think we'll see development on that side? Well, I know there's been talk about that But I I'm not aware of anything The Montpellier development corporation. Yes Could you discuss we've lost our third we lost our third director through no fault of our own Yes, I I continue to believe that it has value and You know to be fair. I think this most recent switch of theirs To a different type of model is actually going to be more flexible So the new model that they're moving towards is a way from having a single executive director But instead hiring project managers for specific projects So, you know thinking about the places in Montpellier that could use some development Is there You know someone who could step in to help You know to help all the the stakeholders move through the process and that would allow People with different types of expertise to step in at the right moment and You know as as project managers and so I'm eager to see if that Works I think it has potential Is console ready to Target them help them to target The area the strip commercial area on two over In district three that they could use some sort of economic development help Uh, well, I mean so I think what we it's the sister. It's it's it's the very little sister to our downtown Yeah, right. It's sort of a different Different it's almost yeah, it's a different character. It's a different character. It's an economic Uh, you know area, but it's but it's not really part of the downtown and you know, it doesn't catch the attention that Yeah, no, I agree. Um, and it's and the thing is too. I mean the way that the council would Communicate that is potentially through like the growth district or through the tiff district um, and it's not Uh, it's I don't think it's in either of those but Mount failure alive really can't tend to them because that's not their charter Right, but I think it's interesting. I mean, um bar hill being a hub out there That end of town anyway, uh, I I think and especially together with the bike The shared use path uh extending out to the edge of town now I think there's going to be some new opportunities for that end of town And I'm really interested to see what happens there and in fact one of the places that I'm very interested in is um What we call five home farm way, um, which is I have no idea. No, that's okay. Um, there's uh, It's it's actually the first It's supposedly uh the first Uh building a home. It's the first home built in montpelier. Uh, and so it's you know next to ague and cascades out there Well, so it was two rivers. It was two rivers. Yeah Anyway, there's a lot of land associated with that and it's it's interesting because the bike path the shared use path Excuse me, um goes Uh, basically Right to you know that That part of the world and uh, I think that could has the potential to be a great destination um For walkers bikers, um, you know, people out with dogs that sort of thing so Anyway, a lot of potential there on that same street and can I can I go east all the way past main street? Can I head towards dog river? And towards the treatment plant? Yeah Now when we spoke last Yes, you were Selling bonds for for that. Yes. Well, so the bond passed That was 17 million dollars Which is a lot of money. Um, but actually, uh, what has happened since then is the That project has actually gotten multiple grants and low interest loans Which you were hoping for when you were on with me selling. Yeah Yes, and those came through Which was very exciting And so that means that the the project is going to be Able to be basically cash positive much sooner. Um Which is just really exciting plus that that building is that it means that the Facility will be able to be thermally net zero Basically from the methane that Is emitted from the the waste that it collects and there's going to be a substantial Excess amount and we actually just the council heard About the plans for what we would do with the excess. We knew that there would be excess But we didn't know what it would go towards in excess of what methane an excess of methane and energy And so the question is what should we use that? No, we're lighting that area Around and powering this plant from what it's generating. Yes, exactly. So now the plan is to Generate electricity with the excess and sell that back to the grid Which is going to make that plan Cash positive at least for the you know, we have we have perspective customers for this. Yes, it's not speculative Right. No, it's being constructed right now Yeah, and we have all the permits for wastewater that's going to come out of that potentially Yes, and we've recently I realize this is a little tangential to what you're talking about but we We're just notified that, you know, we have some concerning levels of PFA's PSA's being PFA's Oh, I'm not sure that I can recall the It's a nasty chemical. Yeah, it's probably like I would guess it's something like perfluoro I don't know whatever but But so we actually are going to be learning more about that at the next council meeting we're going to have a report From the folks at the water resource recovery facility And it's something that I think we're going to be taking a harder look at in the near future Now we've got a capital investment coming not in this budget, but in the next budget. We're picking up a fire truck Oh, I I've had didn't look at it at that. Yeah, that's a good bill show. I didn't see that. Um, I've had quite quite costly, but it over a long horizon. Well, and so that would be a part of the equipment plan Exactly. And um, which is a part of the overall capital plan So and there's so there's a schedule. Uh, just so people are aware there's a schedule of replacement for all of the City vehicles so that we're not ever, you know, buying you know, new police cruisers all at the same time, right? So it's it's sort of staggered. Um, which, you know makes sense fiscally as well so If that if the equipment plan is relatively stable, then, you know, that it often doesn't get much more look than that But one of the other things that's notable this year in the equipment plan is that we are buying a hybrid police vehicle which i'm very excited about for the carbon emission reductions, uh, and particularly because Police vehicles idle all the time. Um, they they it's just a part of the policy We leave them on and so to have a hybrid vehicle that would not be emitting carbon while it was stationary, even if it was technically on is It's a wonderful relief Boy, it seems like you and I have gone around and around this town. Is there any other project of note? Oh gosh. Well, I I mean, I think it's it would be remiss Of us to not just to not note that within the last year since we last spoke Doing this, uh, we completed the the transit center That we did that was a major project Took, you know 20 years and now we hopefully greyhound will incorporate it in their schedule in the next 20 years Yes, yes But it also, you know increased the amount of housing in the downtown people are living there now It's it's just it's such a wonderful Plot of land now. It's it's just a delight So I'm I'm psyched that that is complete It's not complete until the old golf sign at the corner of taylor and and main street comes down Yes, well, that's uh, you know, we'll we'll have to see what ends up happening in that property I'm excited to see that be developed or a new zoning ordinance that that would take care of those old decrepit signs potentially Yeah And I really thank you for sitting through this long slog tonight Happy to Congratulations on becoming mayor again Thank you. And I thank you for being here. Thanks so much for doing all of these interviews richard It's it's really wonderful on your part that you do this for the city So thank you and I thank you for watching this and I urge you as I said at the beginning of the show That before I ended this show I would ask ann about her office hours. Oh, yes So my office hours are uh, tuesday from 3 30 to 4 30. You have to make an appointment at city hall I I've not gotten to the point where people need to make an appointment. They can just show up, but I Do try to limit My conversations with any one person to about 10 minutes so that if there are more people waiting that they they get their time but We can also potentially shift to have like more of a community group conversation This is I'm still new to it. So, you know, we'll let it evolve And I do thank you for watching the show and I would urge you as I urge Always watch all the shows. They're really good. All of the candidates are interesting in their own ways Bill's show is good. Libby's show is good And the more you know, I think the better off you are But make sure that you get out and vote and I realize you could say to yourself Oh, nobody's running against each other except we're in district three But it's still worth voting because voting is the bedrock of our democracy, which is your participation as well as ours Thank you for watching