 out. And what this community advisory board can be is actually you all sharing the power even further, right? You saw the responsibility of approval in your role as a committee member, but you're saying, actually, this is something that we can share. This is a conversation that we can expand. And that's really beautiful. And so it's really exciting to see you all prioritizing that this year. So who? Who are the kinds of people, where are we kind of looking to source this community advisory board? And I'm just going to put up on the screen a little reminder of a phrase that might come into play in this conversation. So who? Who? Yes, Melanie. It's going to be a broken record here, I think. I think it's really important to make sure that we have underrepresented groups on the advisory board and not just people that we know that are leaders within the art community and not necessarily the art community. Yeah, I mean, I think back to that session with Socorro before we began. And there are like maps where the city has prioritized neighborhoods to focus resources on, right? And so it actually doesn't have to be too much of a guessing game about where to start. There are tools available to us on where the city is prioritizing and where the APPC can then prioritize whose voices we are hearing and listening to. Other groups, types of folks, psychographic profiles. Yeah, Kristen. I would add to that that I would like to hear from students, youth participants who are creating art, but then also going to be inheriting a system and hopefully participating in our local government. So I would be interested in hearing from high school and college age folks. I would also be interested in hearing more from and having a seat on a committee. But just different groups of people that have not been part of the conversation previously. So echoing Melanie's comment about how to kind of tap into who's not at the table and how do we get them to the table? Yeah, intergenerational space is so important. Other thoughts on who? Great. I might just throw out thinking about a quick question of is there clarity in this group on who makes the decision around who is on this committee on this board? No. So then I'm going to phone a friend and say, Tara, do you have clarity there? No, no, I don't. I think it needs to be a discussion. I think we need to figure out exactly how to do it. There's no process necessarily that is determined, predetermined for this. So that gives us the flexibility, I think, to explore what's going to work the best. Yeah, I mean, I think that there's, it is not, it is essentially, even though it has this official sounding name, community advisory board, and we may have to actually not call it exactly that because it can be confused with our preexisting council formed community advisory board. But I mean, we know what the intention of the group is, regardless of exactly what its name is. And I think our consultants for our master strategic plan used it because it's a good description of what the board needs to be the group needs to be. Because it is not, it functions more like an advisory to the APPC and to the public art program. So it's removed once from all the other city boards and commissions and committees that are advising council. So it doesn't fall within, as far as I understand any kind of policy, the procedures that are predetermined. I think we have the flexibility to figure out exactly how, how people are identified and invited to participate. And then it kind of goes into some of your other questions, like what do they need in order to participate as well. So. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I think that's really exciting, right? That like, that it's a decision that and the framing that you all can kind of come up with. And I would say that like, emphasize that first, and like get that squared away so that we know who is holding the decision. And then you can like dive in to the work, right? I mean, I think sometimes when processes are unclear, it can become a way to with the best of intentions kind of procrastinate in actually doing the thing because it's like, well, how is this actually coming about blah, blah, blah. And it's like, we can take the time to say actually, okay, this subcommittee or this meeting, this regular meeting of the APPC is going to be about, here's the process, we want them to do this, and we're going to have them named and, you know, and communicated with by this time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you just have to know that. So now we all know that this is a thing to be sorted out. There is no kind of official process to guide the appointment of this committee. I'm so glad that you said invitation, Tara. That's so important to think about how folks are invited. I've heard in a lot of meetings about wanting further community engagement and something that every single organizing body in the world is thinking about right now is how to be better at this. It's very common to be like, we want people to come to this thing or we want people to tell us what they think. So we're going to put it on social media. And this is what we call the megaphone effects or the megaphone approach. It is useful and it can, it can reach a wide amount of people, but it is not guaranteed. Putting something on a city's Instagram page or their Facebook page is not a guaranteed way of getting people to show up or to know that they are actually invited. Right. So I think we can consider the relationships that you already have, starting with community organizations, people that have approached you about wanting public art, about with projects to have public art. Hey, you came to us a few meetings ago with a wall that you already found an artist for. Do you know folks in your community and your circle that you think would be interested in being a part of this conversation? Artists who have been funded, artists who have applied. There was one artist that I was hearing in a meeting who had applied to a bunch of things, but it just hadn't quite worked out yet. That person is like begging to be civically engaged in this process. And so maybe if not that person, someone in that person's circle is a good place to start. And then thinking about what they need, which we'll take us over here. How are you hearing and gathering information about what this committee needs once you have a sense of who they are? Once you have a sense of what the APPC would like them to do, how they can be involved, how they consult. How do you invite them in and then how do you give them space to state what they need? What are some things that they might need? Oh, go ahead, Nathan. Sorry. You go. Okay. I think that we often or assume that folks have all the free time in the world and can just show up at any meeting at any time. And that's so not true for so much a huge majority of our community. So making sure that we can provide incentives or compensation or scheduling or childcare, whatever it is that these people need to participate, I think should be a major consideration for what they need. And I mean, I also feel like they need a very clear, a very clear understanding of what their role is, what their relationship is between their advisory group and the APPC and the program, how the program functions, having clear roles and responsibilities so that there's not disappointment or misunderstanding about what they're there for and what they can see happen, what they can affect. You just spoke like half of my notes out loud, so I love that. Nathan, you have the other half? Oh, it's like you might be frozen, Nathan. All right, we'll come back to Nathan. Lisa, do I see you leaning in over here? No, I was just looking at Nathan and seeing that he wasn't moving. Yeah, but I just wanted to echo what Tara said. I mean, I totally agree, but also what we're just looking for is access. That's what artists are looking for, access. And that might be a space, an audience, or just they want, definitely want resources. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Nathan, you're back with us. Can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah, in my experience, if things are, if you're trying to sort of grease the wheels on getting something going, then funding is the place to start and generally what's missing for people. And then the next thing would be space to practice in. And I know Tara, some years ago had a kind of pilot program around making vacant downtown spaces available and ran into some issues with the city attorney maybe. But I think that that is you know, just identifying vacant spaces and either pairing the owners of those spaces with artists or identifying municipal, municipally owned spaces that artists could use in the production of projects would be great. And I think another thing that's often important, at least in my experience, is establishing skill sharing relationships or facilitating skill sharing relationships between cultural practitioners, especially around material production, fabrication support, these kinds of things. And then I think kind of out of the sort of social matrix of those interactions, questions about place and you know, we occupy space, how we utilize resources. It looks like you're freezing a little bit again, Nathan. So urgent in a way that's, I don't get too much about that. I've got an unstable internet connection. Yeah, we didn't quite catch all of that. I just want to jump in here and say that I want to make sure we're clear about, are we talking about what artists in the community need or are we talking about what the participants of an advisory committee? But maybe I'll just wrap up my comment. Yes. Okay, this is perfect. So I'll say this, Nathan, for the next time you have something to share, if you could share with your video off, that might help prioritize your, it just helps the internet capacity. But bring up really good points. And then Tara had a really great question clarifying that, are we talking about artist need or community advisory board needs? And what I would say is, I think a balanced board involves both people with resources to answer artist need and people with expertise in artist need. Right. So I think it's actually really exciting to think about when we are thinking about listening to the artists and centering the artists, you will have people that are saying, I want to be on this community advisory board because I know that artists like me need space, need skill set sharing, need these things. And they will come, they may be interested in participating in the board as a means of getting those needs, which is great. And it's about saying, great, you are here to continually center those needs as we go about doing this work. Sometimes when we do things like open up to community comment, we're like, oh, thank you for sharing that, but that's not, I mean, I don't mean in the process of a meeting, but I mean truly like in a process, you know, a larger process. It's like, oh, thank you for sharing those things that you need. We don't have that. We're actually asking about this. But what you can capitalize on there, not great word, but you know, bear with me, is the interest, the engagement, the passion, the energy. That's a resource that that person is bringing. And that is a resource that this committee needs on the ground lived experience. So very, very helpful there. We're running on time. So I just want to just see how where I can kind of skip ahead here quickly. Oh, also, Tara, you just mentioned other needs might be around your scheduling. One thing that on my offer is considering what does asynchronous engagement look like? What are ways that people, you know, really piloted actually in the quarantine, how to get lots of people, brains working towards one thing without necessarily being in the same room in the same space at the same time. So maybe it's Zoom, but maybe there are other ways that you can pilot getting folks input on things without asking them to commit. And also underlining a set expectation of hours committed, that kind of boundary can be really helpful. That's kind of all in the production process to remember the frame that I mentioned before. This is when the actual doing of the thing. So then I think at each step of the way, checking in. So in this post-production moment, thinking about what are the indicators that it's going well, or that it went, the outreach process is going well, or that it didn't go well, right? You might have low response rate. You may have confusion about the work of the APPC. You know, like, I'm not sure I want to be a part of an advisory board for something that I don't know what they quite do. And you also might come across something very real that we all face, right? Which is imposter syndrome. You might say, hey, person in the community, you'd be amazing for this. And they're like, I'm just some muralist. I don't know about the city and the workings. And I don't know how to, like, put on a powdered wig and pass a motion. I don't know any about that. And you all can say, we actually built this container for you and your expertise. You know, and I think it's about that person to person, human to human, Santa Rosa resident to Santa Rosa resident, saying no, no, we value and want to hear your voice and checking in with each other about, okay, I'm asking people and I'm running into some barriers or this description of the committee works really well. So next time you talk to somebody, you know, put it that way. Something that I've seen this committee do in various forms is stop and say, maybe we need to think this through, maybe we need to reimagine this, maybe we need to approach this differently, maybe we need to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You all already are practicing a culture of not embracing status quo. And I just want to say that that is amazing and encourage that, right? The, inevitably in time, the committee membership will change, new members will be onboarded. But if there is one thing that the APPC can be known for, and it's like asking great, interrogative questions, and it's like, and ask a killer question, like, and we will like be in conversation with an artist and has just an incredible question about supporting that artist and what they need. Melanie, you, your questions and your advocacy for things that the, that the committee has put forward as priorities, it's incredible. So like, let's just make it firmly the culture of the committee so that no matter who's here serving, people know that APPC is responsive and, and listening to both the needs and goals that the city has put forward, but also, you know, the needs and goals of the artists and the citizens that you all are serving. Okay. Super, super fast in about a little less than eight minutes. The toolkit. What I want to emphasize here, I think we have a sense of for who, so we don't have to spend a ton of time there. With who, I think we also maybe have a little bit of a sense, right? People who have applied, people who might have resources, people who might need resources. There's a lot of different ways that somebody could come to the APPC with a question and I know that you all have a good grasp of who they are and what those questions are because you live in the community, you get these questions all the time, right? I have a couple of questions about how is it accessible? But what I want to think about in this meeting is who does what? How do you break up? This is a, this is an elephant. How do you, how do you approach this big task? Anybody have ideas there about how to even start? Well, one thing I think I feel like we could identify even in our smaller APPC group, who has kind of, who's got a line on what kind of questions and what kind of info, like who specializes in what, what, what it reach of us good at. I don't even really think we've ever taken an assessment of our collective gifts and resources even within our group. And it seems to me that if we were going to try to make ourselves accessible and be able to relay information that's going to help someone get another step up or get a little closer to their goals, we need to know who, who, who does tarot or us or the whoever is connecting. Oh, you want to talk to so and so. You should be, I just think could, are we allowed to be outside of this group and talking to people without being listened into by the community? I mean, is that, I assume we do, but I just don't feel like we've been launched out that way. I mean, some of us are artists, working artists. We, we actually have some skills. Some of us have really great administrative and possibly writing skills and just different things like that. I just think it would be great to know where we start. Yeah, that kind of asset mapping is great. Melanie? I also think we can take best, best practices from other cities that are, are doing something like this. I mean, we can steal with pride so that we don't, you know, have to reinvent every single wheel. But, you know, if there's something out there that another city is doing that we think is great, we should connect with them. I think that's allowable and see how they're, you know, if they, if anybody else has toolkits, I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. I mean, you all should know that people are stealing from you, right? The last time I was with my family in Ventura County, I met the person who works for the city there, who does the public art. And she was like, oh, Santa Rosa, they're like gold standard, like they, and yet, you know, there are things that you'd like to work on. So people are watching you watch other people and see what you can learn. Other thoughts? Yeah, I think something that would be helpful with the toolkit is to not only do an assessment of collective gifts, but also an assessment of what's working and what needs improvement. And to come at it from a lens of usability, you know, by taking away kind of, I guess the veil of your experience of working with the city for as long as any of us have, but to come at it with fresh eyes and say, you know, maybe kind of have like a jargon dictionary or something to that effect of breaking down the legalese by saying what works and what doesn't and what's confusing and what's kind of jargon. That brings up Niko. I was just going to, and I think that's what you were going to do too, I just want to hop in and just connect it to these strategies and those muscles that we've been learning, right? And just naming what you said, Chair Keeper, was about affinity bias, right? How are we constantly evaluating where our bias comes in? And then how are we, what you said about access and user design, right? By defining it in these categories, it allows us to say, how will somebody interact with this as an issue of access, right? And then what are the parameters or what are the filters we've moved through in order to continue to expand our bias around this subject? So just looping it back to these learnings and there's that, you know, that kind of cheat sheet that we've had that allows you to walk through and say, oh, usability, that's access. Great. What are those considerations around access that we're doing, right? And so I think it's exactly that naming that, defining that and putting those priorities as we move through the design of these. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really like, you know, it's really feeding two birds with one seed, right? Because you've got another priority of assessing the kind of policies and procedures of the APPC. And if you're spelling them out in a toolkit, you're, you have to go through them anyways, right? And if you are, this question of with who, if you are doing this with community and whether that is the starting with the Community Advisory Board and into a larger process, if you're doing a question campaign, whatever the mechanism you use to hear community, you'll get practice actually hearing feedback about what those policies and procedures are, how they feel, how they look, where they're confusing, so that when you go back to this kind of, there's a slide for the presentation that doesn't have a hiatus that just reframes centers again, what the kind of charge of the committee is, right? And part of it is advising on policy and procedure. And so that is something that's part of your work and that you can do really in community and in partnership and it'll make the toolkit better and then it'll in turn improve the policies. Accessibility. This is just like a another layer of accessibility with the toolkit, but just to name where does it live? How do people access it? Is it purely digital? What if I don't have a computer? Is it in the library? Is it at City Hall? Is there a large print version? What languages is it translated into? And that gets tricky because there's this question of how does it stay relevant, which argues for it to be a living breathing document. So what is the kind of agreement among this group of, okay, maybe it's every two years or maybe it's every three years, we check in and we update it knowing that we've got copies of the library, we've got copies at City Hall, we've got copies in Spanish to be updated and in Thai to be updated. So just to remember kind of where these things go, how people find them and then how to keep them current. Is that raising any questions for anybody? It seems like a long time. I mean, because you know, if something's not working, we'll hear about it from, hopefully we can hear about it from the community and we'd be able to, or people who are using the process and we'd be able to respond faster than every two years. But yeah, I understand what you're saying about the upkeep of it. It also could be an onboarding tool, right? So that maybe every time a new committee member gets appointed, you hand them the toolkit and say, what's confusing? Hey, welcome, you're new here. You don't know what we do yet. This toolkit is our kind of front porch to get people in. So give us your thoughts and maybe we can make a little juj. And with the use of the word juj, I'm going to pass it over to Nico because we're coming towards the end of our time. What I think in that great questions that last comment is really about accountability, right? When we go to that post production phase that something has been completed, a project has been, how are we accountable to its relevancy to our community? How are we coming back to it? Is it every year? And I love kind of what you said, Kevin. It was about really the agreement. What are we agreeing on to being accountable, right? To multiple languages, to accessibility, to people interacting with it, to relevancy. And so I think that is part of your kind of your, from pre to thinking about it, production, implementing it, and then post is the accountability that you make agreements on to upholding the standards and the values of which you came out this project. I think this is amazing. And what I love in just hearing this conversation is really about us leaning into hearing how you begin to process what developments, developments you've made as saying, oh, here's further considerations I wouldn't have thought of before, right? When it comes to the EIA or here's how we might listen to artists more or here's really, I mean, the CBPR presentation in an hour and a half with an incredible roadmap to really like print the slides and say, what is the way in which we want to listen to the community, right? What is the question that we want to know is what resources would an artist or an arts and culture worker in our community be interested in, right? We don't hold all the answers. And then it goes into well, what's the method that we're going to collect that data, right? And so there's a beautiful roadmap right there for you to start going after one of these and using one of these in your practice for the committee. I just kind of want to take us into verbalizing learning. So we have thrown kind of a lot at you in these four professional developments and really starting to show them into how the committee operates, right? As getting these new muscles and seeing how it might look in a toolkit, how you apply them to an advisory committee. And so I just would love to kind of turn it over to you all for some hearings of just saying, you know, we've listened to these past three, we're in this fourth PV, but here's one, here's something that surprised me. Here's an observation I've made. Here's something I'm excited about implementing or so I just kind of want to turn it over to you all of this verbalizing something from these PDs that is applicable to the committee's work that gets you excited. That was a surprise or I want to I want to mold that over. I want to research that a little bit more. Just want to offer it up to anyone that's interested in verbalizing that. I will go. I was really inspired. Well, all these all these things have been so relevant in so many ways. But Danny's presentation that you took us through was such an eye opener about just the careful and thoughtful and patterned way that she breaks into a community. I mean, with ears open and with the attempt to respectfully find out what's important and finding the people that she can do that with and empowering others. It's not about her or it's not about us. And that's for all transition that it's just that it just the de-centering off of this meeting and into getting into the community. That is probably the most exciting thing about this for me. And I'm not even sure how it's going to look, but it is hopeful. So and I know it's been a weird three years. So right, it's strange, but we're we're moving that way. So that has really been I hope. Thank you. Thank you. And yeah, I also wanted to echo Anne when she was talking about Danny Dominguez's presentation and the overview that we got on community based participatory research. I was very thankful that she went through and very sister very. She she gave the steps for all of the research ways to approach it. And the last step, I was so glad that she provided a reminder of as an action step of how will we use information? And having done research myself, I know that's not always the an area that gets a lot of attention on. And so I was glad that she brought that back to our committee of so we have these tools. But what do we do with research once it has been collected? And yeah, once you've kind of gone through the steps of, OK, was this approach to do in research equitable? Did it hit all of our markers of wanting to reach a diverse group? But what are we going to do with the information after? And that's something that I like, oh, wanted to dig my teeth into a little bit more of how do I bring that back to future projects? Yeah, I hear action being an interest from the collective, right? Of how do we activate the potential within this committee? Yeah. Well, can anyone know? Great. I remember when I go from. Yes. Hi. One other thing, too, I just Danny, Danny definitely there was quite a few things that she said that really have stuck with me. And one of them was us on the APPC or that she even said as a research, you don't come in with the agenda. The community tells you the problems. The community identifies the problem. And that's what has continuously stuck with me is they know to listen. And so I definitely appreciate that. But there was a few other items, too. But I know we're short on time. But that's for sure the top of my list. Yes. Yes. That's huge, huge. And a new practice to learn. Absolutely. Anyone else? Learning, thought, surprises. We'll move on here, too. In order for us to really kind of be good stewards and to kind of be the best collaborators, we're going to be sending out a survey at the end of this that just goes through a little bit of questions about our professional development. We highly encourage you to take it because it'll kind of rub us up for us to be better educators, to be better facilitators, but be to see what else you're interested in learning, how else we can come alongside you and support you with professional development opportunities, mentorship or really activating this work in community. So we'll be sending that out at the end of this workshop. And then also our work continues on. Kevin and I are meeting, I'll be meeting with the EDI task force moving forward. And then Kevin will be meeting with the engagement task force to start activating these new learnings and pillars and really guiding those processes of implementation. And then after that, the last one I really have is just a heartfelt thank you. Thank you from the Tina Kinzen creative for hosting us in such a warm environment, for being thoughtful collaborators and just showing up ready to learn and ready for action and engagement. So that's just from us at Kinzen creative. We're so thankful to have spent time with you in the Zoom room. And I'll just say a special shout out for Kevin for organizing these CDs, having one-on-ones with you all, and really kind of guiding this educational process collectively. That's all we currently have right at 530, even with the recess. But we'll kind of, if you have any last questions, we'll be here. But just a heartfelt thank you from us. Thank you. Thank you, Nico. Thank you, Kevin. Thanks. It was great. Yes. All right, Tara, we'll pass it to you if we need anything new. Thank you so much, both of you. I'm sure we'll talk to you soon, but thank you so much for your participation, your presence and leadership throughout this process. It's been really great. So I'll just turn it back over to you, Kristen, to close out the meeting. Thank you. Oh, we should call for public comment. I don't think there's anyone on the call, but please go ahead and do that before you close out. Thanks for the reminder, Tara. At this time, I'll take public comment. Do we have any messages? We have no messages, emails or public comments or anyone, members from the public raising their hand at this time. Great. Thank you for that. And as we part for our evening tonight, thank you again for that great food for thought and recap of this great learning opportunity that we've had over these last four sessions with you and our one-on-ones. That has been very informative. I will be, or sorry, moving towards adjournment. The next regular meeting of the Art and Public Places Committee scheduled for Monday, January 2nd is canceled due to the New Year's holiday. So I wish everyone a wonderful, and joyous, and safe, and healthy, happy holiday season. Thank you, everyone, for your hard work. And I'm looking forward to see you all in the New Year. Meeting adjourned.