 Welcome to another episode of End The Zone. I am your host, Chris Broussard, and what a show we have playing for you. First off, a great interview with none other than Metta World Peace. He had some never-before-heard stories about Kobe Bryant. He's got a new book out. He told us some about that. He's an author. He writes sci-fi erotica. You're going to hear it. I mean, it's just too good to be true. You got to listen to this great interview with Metta World Peace. Of course, we got my man, Jason McIntyre, on board for another episode or segment of Knock Down Jay. But as always, we started off with a top five. And what we're going to do for the playoffs is every week, we are going to give you our top five post-season player power rankings. That's right. Top five post-season player power rankings. We're starting off right now at number five with Clay Thompson. All due respect to Kevin Durant, who's running the show very well without Steph Curry, six and a half assists the game and all that. But Clay Thompson has been the man averaging 29 points a game, shooting 70% from the field in the first two games, including 71% from three point land in game two against the Spurs, a tight game. A game the Spurs looked like they might be ready to pull off the upset in Oakland. Clay Thompson drained 16 points in the fourth quarter. He has been out of this world. Clay Thompson, number five at number four, Paul George, otherwise known as playoff P. I don't know. I don't know where that came from. I don't remember ever hearing that mellow and Russell don't remember hearing it, but whatever he was playoff P in game one against the Utah Jazz, 36 points, seven rebounds, eight three pointers, eight of 11 from behind the arc against the second best defense in the NBA. Now look, Utah is a defense that only gives up nine three pointers a game to opposing teams. And Paul George by himself drained eight threes. That was a huge win that he led them to now OKC is flying and look, I think they're going to do some damage in these playoffs. Paul George playoff P PG 13, number four at number three, none other than the beard, James Harden, you know the numbers 44 points, eight assists, seven three pointers and in the fourth quarter to beat Minnesota in a tight game, 12 straight points. And here's the thing, Harden had to be that good. He had to be that dynamic just to get the win because his back courtmate Chris Paul and in his other back courtmate, Eric Gordon really didn't show up. They combine for only 21 points, 15 below their combined average for the regular season. Chris Paul has six turnovers, including a bad one late that could have cost him the game. They combine Gordon and Paul to shoot two for 13 from the three point line. So if it wasn't for Harden's heroics, Houston could have been in an old one hole. That's why he's number three at number two. That's right. Victor Oladipo. Now Victor Oladipo went into the king's house and was the best player on the floor. He led the Indiana Pacers to a game one upset by playing tremendous basketball. Look, as great as he is, he's only a 37% shooter from three, not horrible, but not a marksman. But in this game, he dropped three three pointers in the first quarter to lead Indiana to a decisive 19 point lead and the game was really over by that point. He ended up with 32 points, four steals, six of nine from three point land. I know he probably just upset LeBron, but still right now this week, Victor Oladipo number two on the player power rankings. And at number one, Anthony Davis. You gotta give it to AD. He goes into Portland against the third seated Blazers who everybody is raving about. Everybody thinks could be a spoiler in the playoffs and he instead becomes the spoiler himself. 35 points, 14 rebounds, four block shots. He was phenomenal. Then 11 points in the fourth quarter as the Blazers are trying to rally. He gives New Orleans its first playoff victory in seven years. And for him, it was the first playoff victory of his career. AD, he was third on my MVP ballot and he is gonna win it one day. Maybe he put on that type of performance in game one. And that's why he tops this week's list of the postseason player power rankings. All right, we're here with meta world peace. What's up? First, before we get started, I wanted to just ask you about this. I know you're playing in the big three this summer, but you're going by around our test. Yes. So are you changing your name back or what? I'm not changing my name. Ice Cube was like, hey, it'd be cool to have our test in the back of the jersey. And I'm like, all right, let's do it. It wasn't that deep. Nothing like that. Okay. Because people remembered you. Because you hadn't changed. You changed the meta world peace. 2011. Yeah. So you won your title as our test. As our test. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And I was hoping to win one as world peace, but the team started to break down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, look, first of all, you got a new book coming out. Yeah. People don't know. I mean, you've written several books. I have an author. I have a couple books, man. I have a sci-fi erotica. Sci-fi erotica. I do have one. It's called Dream 37. How'd that do? Well, no, I didn't put it out yet. I didn't put it out yet. Yeah. Yeah. That book is done. So I mean, what you can tell us, what is sci-fi erotica? The thing, it was about, the reason is a sci-fi erotica because the story, and so it's science fiction. And the story was about temptation. And it was about a man who was getting these, was lusting about another lady. And then they got into this dream. And it was affecting the marriage. But they were only in the dream. It was a, the dream became a reality. Okay. You know? And then, and so I wrote it because it was like, don't go for the temptation. But I wrote it. I wanted it to be fun. And it's very, and it's very, you know, graphical. Okay. You know? Were you a big, what were some of those, I don't even, those novels that are graphic, sexual novels? Were you into all that? You read all that stuff? Or you just did your own thing? I just thought like, you know, when you're telling a story, like you want to be like blunt. I don't want to like hide things because it's not fun. And even in my book, even in my autobiography, like I told Triumph, like, listen, I want it to be like blunt and just tell the stories like it is. Yeah. Yeah. That's good, man. That's, so are you going to release that Dream 37? Dream 37, like I'm going to do my autobiography first and then like later release that book. That's been done for four years. And then I have another thriller that's called The Idyllis. So you wrote it? It's written? It's finished. Yeah. Really? And you wrote it yourself? For you tell? With the guy named Josh Silverman. So you kind of share with him your thoughts in it? Yeah. Wow. A thriller. So like a murder mystery type? Basically, it's a group that has all these ideas on how to take money from really rich people. Wow. Wow, that's good. It's pretty fun. It's a fun book. I enjoyed it. These both sound good, but let's get to your book that you just released. You're just releasing called No Malice. No Malice. My Life in Basketball. Obviously, that's a playoff to Malice at the Palace. Yes. Yes. My Life in Basketball or How a Kid from Creamsbridge survived the streets, the bras and himself to become an NBA championship champion. So I want to ask you, when you look back at your life in basketball, what makes you the most proud? There's a lot of things that make me the most proud, but one thing that I hold on to a lot is the year I got suspended. Not because of the suspension and the attention that it brought to me, the year that I was having. Oh, it was early, but you were playing like MVP. Even before that, I was playing really well the year before that. But yeah, that year, I was like really, really good. And I always took that run out test and placed him in New York City. And when I was a kid, I always wanted to play in New York City because that's where I'm from. And I'm like, how can my city not have a championship? Only a couple when Phil Jackson was there and Clyde. Yeah, early. But you know, so I'm like, wow, I can actually say I would have been really amazing in the garden. I should have been in the garden. The New York fans wanted me. Everything was in my favor, just that I wasn't there. So that's something that I can be proud about. But it's something only I can experience because it didn't actually happen. You know what I'm saying? So were you, when you were playing your early years, because obviously the New Yorkers were upset that they didn't draft you, they drafted Frederick Weiss instead of you? Good guy, good guy. But you were in Chicago, then you go to Indiana. During that time, were you thinking, man, I wanted to be with the Nicks? I wish I was with the Nicks and stuff. So what happened was my favorite team was Chicago. I'm from New York. Oh, really? So I'm New York Pride because of Jordan. BJ Armstrong. Really? Was my favorite player. No, you got to explain that. Why? You know, you're young. I like BJ, but why? You know, you're a young kid. BJ wasn't a bad player. No, BJ was, he was the bomb at Iowa. And he was good in NBA. He was as good. Yeah. And you know, when you're a young kid, you latch on to something and you're watching TV and you just liked somebody and BJ Armstrong was the guy that I liked. And then obviously Jordan was on his team. Like, wow. So that was my favorite team, the team I played with in NBA Live. Okay. But I'm from New York, so I always had that conflict. Like, if I had a chance to play for anybody, it's going to be New York. But I went to my favorite team, which was the Bulls. So I just forgot about, I forgot about New York City. Yeah. Okay. So, but also when I was, I was going to sign to New York City right before Isaiah left. Yeah. So I was going to be in the prime in my prime and I was going to go to New York City, but then Isaiah left and Donny got the job. Yeah. And I had the incident in Indiana with Donny. So I reached out to Donny, said, Hey, I would like to come to New York, but that would have been too much. Because you had a good relationship with Donny. I still have a decent relationship with Donny. But he just felt like it was a lot. It was a lot. Yeah. That whole brawl that, not even a brawl, just me personally. Yeah. I've done, I've done way more than that brawl. Oh, yeah. I was ahead. Do you feel like people, oh, you're talking about negative stuff you did before? Disruptive. Well, I remember, because I covered the Knicks at that time. And I remember, I think an incident where you had, you guys had played in the garden and you threw like a monitor after the game. Yeah. So I was going to ask you, this might, this leaves in the next question. What is your biggest regret when you look back is, I guess, all that type of behavior? No, the biggest, there's no real regret because when I look back and I go back to when I was a kid and then how I was in the NBA, you know, I had no chance, man. So it was, yeah. I had no chance, you know, from, from the household to how you're raised, to how you're educated, to your values and morals, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I had no chances. And I, and I still made something out of it. What you, you, like I said, you talk a lot about mental health issues. And you went to therapy. Do you still do therapy? And whether you do or not, what have you learned about the challenges that you had with mental health? Yeah, just, sometimes you can have this addictive kind of side to you. Sometimes you can have depression or anxiety, such as Larry Sanders. Yeah. He would have anxiety, you know, and that's why he needed to smoke, to calm him down. Me, I would do that and drink. You know, so I had it all, I had, and that had a lot of wounds that wasn't closed, like as a child going through a lot of things in the environment. And then you, and then you try to cope and you build these addictive habits, whether it's spending money or whether it's drinking alcohol or whether it's like sex, you know? And they all can be, you can be dependent on these things. And now instead of just, you know, addressing the issue, you know, you got to just cause another problem. And that's what happens with a lot of, like, professionals and people always trying to be number one or people who have so much pressure and they try to cope with other things, you become addictive, become addicted to the other thing, you know, you thought that was helping you. Yeah. You know? So I understand that now and the best thing to do is to be content and be happy and to do things you love. Do you still, are there things you do, do you have a routine to keep yourself balanced mentally? Yeah, I still like to see therapists and address things, you know, when I can. Got this thing is important, you know, for you to take care of yourself. You got to take care of yourself. And, you know, basketball is something I like. And then I like, and I had, it's a good question, because when I was like, I'm not retired yet, but I'm at the end and damn, they're retired. So you might, you might come back and play. How are you? Like, if I had a reason to play, I can get in shape and play. If somebody told me, like, in June, we want you to come to training camp, then I can get in shape. But like my last two years with the Lakers, they told me, like, in August. Yeah. Okay. I still make the teams. Yeah. You know, I was taking somebody's spot, who was like, at the end, so I could do that easy. But, you know, I'm not, I'm not playing no more. And I had to ask myself, what do you want to do? So I said, okay, I'm a philanthropist. I love basketball. I was a math major. I had to ask myself all these questions to see, like, what do I really love? Not like, do I want to do movies? Or do I want to produce movies? Like, what can you do? What do you love? And I went back to school for digital analytics, business analytics. I was thinking about getting my series seven, but that was too much. So I just chose analytics. And then I kind of just put everything together. So now I'm doing a sports platform that involves things that I love and philanthropy, you know, so that's, that's what I've been doing lately. You saw DeMar DeRozan, you mentioned Larry Sanders, DeMar DeRozan, Kevin Love, they came out and talked about mental health. How big of an issue is that, do you think in professional sports, like a lot of players battling stuff like that? You see it every day. You see the stories of the Lin Baez, for one, you know, great player. You see the stories of guys trying to cope and going out partying and wasting all their money and, you know, not having the right people around you, or having maybe an addictive habit. You've seen the stories before, this day's NBA, it's cleaner now, but you see, you hear the stories from way back when. You know, it's been going on for a long time. Guys been having problems for a long time. The NBA has been very supportive for a long time, but it's just coming out. But imagine being in an NBA position and you want to show that you're supportive of mental health, and you want to say I'm helping this guy, helping that guy, but maybe that guy don't want to be exposed, especially back then, because the media call you crazy. This guy's on Zoloft or this guy's on that. The media wasn't as sensitive to that situation as they are now. You opened it up a lot when you talked about it after the finals. That really changed everything. So what is it like to play in the NBA? Because we have a lot of people's stereotypes. Oh, it's just an endless stream of parties and women and all that. And you mentioned how much free time you have. I don't think people realize, I mean, if you practice four hours a day, then you got the whole day. You got money, galore. So talk about what it's like playing in the NBA. The practices for me was great, because I knew that when I'm in practice, that's where I get a chance to play and just have fun. Because when I leave, I don't know what I'm going to do next, because I'm not like that locked into my family at that young age. But the NBA is great. And I get some people like Trenton Hassell or Kevin Olly. These are guys that were just stable, Elton Brand. And I'm like, wow, how are you guys so stable? I used to be like, in my head, it's like, how do you do it? But then you get other guys just want to go out or maybe live in a different lifestyle. And everybody's different. And that's why you see so much passion in the game. People don't understand where that passion comes from or why a guy is, how he is, or maybe he acted out one game. You don't really know what that person is going through. But to play in the NBA is great. Great platform. You pay a lot of money. And you're just doing something you love. What are some revelations from your new book, No Malice, that might surprise people? Well, my story's been out there every single one of them. I don't know if people's going to be surprised, but I think some of the backing stories with the family is things my mom and dad talked about in the book. Oh, so they're in it too? They're in the book. Because I wanted it to be more real. And instead of getting the news on TV, you actually get a chance to hear the full story without it being censored. You know, you don't have to worry about what is the FDC or something. Yeah, FFC. FFC. You know, so I told the writer I said I want everything to be FCC. I'm like, do not censor anything. You know, I want people to kind of get the stories. And I want people to go away reading the book, being able to connect with the book. Is there anything about the malice in the palace that, you know, we don't really know that like, yeah, a lot of things is in the book. And this is not like, I didn't want this to be like no tell all book. I'm not trying to, I mean, I'm not, I'm not that person. Poor people all blast. Yeah, I'm not the type of person. So you're not going to get good information about what was going on. The lake is locked a little more. But it was more about me and I was giving out information on myself. So with the brawl, one of the things was the bet, the bet, a lot of people don't know about the bet. And when the guy raises his hand, when I got hit with the cup, I ran into the stands. Because that's the only person I saw. I'm like, you definitely hit me. It could have been some totally different. But I was 100% sure that that was the guy that hit. If you didn't know who hit you, you think you wouldn't have went up there? If I didn't know who hit me, I probably would have been like going crazy. Like, who did it? Who did it? Who did it? But I'm like that guy to be him is no other reason for anybody to be raising a hand. But he wasn't the one that hit me. It was the other guy hit me that was next to him. Well, the reason he raised his hand was because he bet John Green who hit me with the cup $50 that they could hit me. Wow. You know what I'm saying? Wow. So when John hit me, the guy that raised his hand lost the bet, he was like, Oh, you did it. Yeah. Oh, you $50. And as that he's I'm coming up. He's like, Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then the guy that hit me is like this. He's seen me running. And he's like, I didn't do it. If you watch it, right? So I've run right past his back to the other guy. I wasn't going there to punch him. And I didn't want to escalate like that. But I did want to kind of grab him by not quite choke him. But more like the shoulder area. Okay. And just kind of shake him. Yeah. For a long period of time. That's what I wanted to do. Yeah. You know, and because I was super upset that I got hit with that, that you know, I was so mad. Like, what the hell are you doing? Yeah. You know, and then, um, and then, um, then they took me off the guy, John grabbed me. So I'm thinking like, I maybe he's grabbing me because I'm doing too much. Right. I'm like, All right, cool. Give me off this guy. And, um, he punches me in the face from behind. So I had no chance. And what am I going to do about the situation? What was your, I guess, before and then after? What was your relationship with Ben Wallace? I never, um, I didn't like Ben Wallace. Okay. Never. I don't like anybody. When you playing? Hell no. Okay. I hate every single person. Before I get to a game, like my thought process is, all right, who's in the arena and who do I hate? That's like, I hate everybody, kids and everybody. Okay. Um, the coaches hate the guy. I build up so much hate and then, and then sometimes it was hard for me to come down. You know, so my Elton Brand, my best friend, Lamar Odom, when I asked him that, that I ever talked to him on the court. No, I don't have friends. That's just how you did it. That's just how, that's how, that's how he's brought up. Right. So yeah, absolutely. I didn't like Ben Wallace, because, um, he was a hell of a player, you know, and they team was that good. So I just, I just, I hated them. So going forward, you guys didn't develop any type of relationship or anything after, after the bra. Yeah. Yeah. Good question, man. After the bra, it put a lot of things in perspective. I did say hi to him when I was a Houston, he was a Cleveland's game, but that, because that, that bra put a lot of things in perspective for me. Y'all never talked about it though. We never talked about it. It would be interesting. Yeah. Yeah. It would be very interesting. That'd be a great, uh, talk show on TV or something. Yeah. Yeah. I always wanted to fight him, um, after that, because people said I was scared. So I wanted to fight him in the boxing ring. I remember you challenged him. Yeah. I wanted to, did he ever, I know he's probably busy with the family. I was still kind of, I was just salty that I got to spend it for, for 72 games and loads of money. Do you work out in boxing or anything? You ever do anything in that? Yes. That's, that's a good question. Cause so right before the bra, I was, um, I was training to be a professional and I wanted to turn professional at 35. I didn't want to, yeah, I wanted to turn. Well, once you were done playing, you were right before the bra was trying to retire. I don't know people, well I called the NBA cause I was going through a lot. So I called the NBA and then, um, before the bra, and I'll take you even before that, before I signed with Indiana, I was trying to sign overseas in Europe and Greece. I didn't even want to play in the NBA. Why? Because I wanted something different. I wanted something different, you know, and then, and nobody would help me get what I want. They wanted what they want. If I say I want to play in Greece, that means I want to play in Greece, you know. So nobody would make the calls that I needed to be made. Yeah. Your agents, they, they like, what are you talking about playing Greece? So anyway, then, um, that, before that season, I tried to retire. My grandma passed away in October. Everything's palmed up. So I tried to retire. I called the NBA office and said, hey, how do you go about retiring? I called Chris and Chen and then, um, then they was like, you know, you sure you want to do that? You know, um, and then I got the papers. Actually, I never got the papers on how to retire. But then by that time I spoke to my team and everybody talked me in the stage. Okay. So you had told them you, you were, yeah, yeah, we, we, we spoke and I was out and I was like, this year I just need, I just need, I just need a fresh start. I need to clear my head and to be around my family. I need to work on my family, you know, because I knew like I was going to be here for the long, for the long haul. So then, um, that didn't happen. I'm playing well that season. And my dad reached out to Angelo Dundee because my dad was a boxer. He said, I, son, I found you a trainer because we was talking about boxing. So I spoke to Angelo Dundee. He said, all right, we're going to work on, we're going to work. And then, um, by the time you're 35, you're going to be really good. So we was, we was going to start working. The brawl happened. When the brawl happened, I'm like, okay, cause I was going to announce that by the time I'm 35, I'm turning a professional, right? Um, and cause it takes that long for you to be a good boxer. I know boxing. You can't just, you can't just roll up in boxing. Yeah. Right. So, um, and it's something I wanted to do for my dad. My dad was a boxer. So when the brawl happened, I'm like, dad, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't know if we should continue. We should announce this because I just got into a big problem for fighting. Yeah. Okay. And this is going to be a bad look. Yeah. So then, uh, and then Angelo Dundee passed away, you know, um, and then, uh, so we just kind of let it go. He's let it go. You brought up a couple of things. You said some people, you wanted to fight Ben because some people thought you were scared. That was a little yeah. Cause y'all didn't, you didn't go at him. Why, why didn't you guys, why do you think you didn't fight him right then and there? I couldn't tell you. It's like, you know, and then I let other people get in my head, you know, at that time I'm yelling, I'm like, Oh, you said I'm scared. I'm not scared. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't make no sense. But, um, but at that time I'm like, okay. I just, third team on NBA last year, first team this year. I let this one go. You know what I'm saying? I don't know. I don't know. We have 24. Yep. Yep. Y'all are, y'all were having, man, y'all would have been on the team that year. Second thing you brought up is how long it takes to develop as a boxer. Yeah. I don't know if you know Floyd Mayweather. Okay. Now, you know, he's talking about MMA. What's your thoughts on that? I mean, I say, if it's going to be a hundred million dollars and he gets knocked out, that'd be the last fight. He's never been knocked out. There's people that's been knocked out way more than he has and comes back. So if he happens to lose and walks away with 150, I'm fine with that. You think it's worth it? I think it's worth it. He's never been hit. Like what, why are you going to break an elbow? I get it fixed. So you would do, he should do, but is there any chance he could, you know, win and learn how to fight MMA? To me, that's, that's a lot. Now I saw the report that the rules would just be no elbows, no takedowns. It almost be like boxing in the octagon. Yeah. And then he might be out of the way. But Floyd, obviously he calls the shots everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would love to see him do it. It's different. You know, it's inspiring from a boxer. It's just so inspiring. It gives a kid out there that maybe wants to box and do MMA. It opens it up to something different. I would love to see it. I hate to see him lose though. Yeah, I know. But it don't go in his boxing record. No, no. All right. Let's get to today's NBA. I got some questions for you. Who's your MVP this year? James Harden. James Harden. Absolutely. Yeah. I voted for Harden because some people saying LeBron, LeBron had a great year, but come on, it's hard. This year is definitely Harden. What he's doing, what he has, he deserves MVP. Yeah. Okay. Who's your pick to reach the NBA finals? I say Warriors. And I say maybe Philly. Really? So you lost faith in Cleveland? They just don't have a team. I mean, now LeBron, I feel bad. I feel I feel a certain way betting against LeBron. I was going to say, yeah. I feel a certain way betting against LeBron. Yeah, yeah. He's that good. But you know, Toronto's playing well, but can they stop? Ben Simmons? I don't know. Philly is tough. Ben Simmons looks to, I've said it many times, he looks, he's the closest thing I've ever seen to Magic Johnson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He is. He reminds me of, I said LeBron because I never watched Magic play that much. I saw Magic at the end. Yeah. You know, but then as I watched Tape on Magic, I'm like, oh wow, Magic was really good. Magic was, people don't understand. I mean, his passing wizardry was just completely unmatched. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no question. But yeah, Philly, Philly is tough. All right. You tweeted, the Knicks are looking for a new coach. Yes. You tweeted that you would love to coach the Knicks. So what's your, what would your pitch be to the Knicks? Why should they hire you? Well, for one, when, when not when the job came up, I didn't know about this job for one. When I see people with names, I'm like, oh wow, the Nick job is available. There's only a couple jobs right now I would change my life for. You know, the Knicks is one. And it's only for if the job is available. I don't want nobody's job. Like I don't want to, somebody has a job and they say, I was fired. No, I don't care. I'm not even interested. But the job is available. My brother has an agency, the R test agency. So I said, hey, I said, you know, try to reach out. Because you know, yeah, I wanted, I love coaching. I coach all day. That's what I do. I got a teams, I got like four or five teams I'm coaching now. And, my pitch would be, you know, hiring a good staff, you know, playing a lot of defense and running, shooting a lot of shooting, getting up a lot of shots. You know, I do feel like defensively, even though it's not a defensive league, but you have to play defense to win. And people remember me, remember me for defense. But I was able to play a little offense. Yeah. Yeah. And I was able to play a team game. So I feel like I had the package and that's not knocking any other coaches. Only I hope one of the other coaches get the job. I'm happy for them. But if it's available, yeah, imagine Ron R. Tess winning a championship in New York City. You want to see a city get light on fire? Oh, yeah. I mean, for me, it's like a couple of people tweeted, you only take the shot. I think, I think remember somebody tweeted to take the shot. And I like to take the shot. If I see something available, how am I not going to say it? It's an opportunity. Did you hear any, brother hear anything back from the Knicks or anything? No, because you know, I don't have experience. I do, but it hasn't been shown. Yeah. You know, and then also it's other coaches that's been doing it. And that's had, you know, head coaches, they doing a great job. And I'm, you know, good luck to every one of them. I hope they do. I hope one of them get it and have a good time. And when in New York City, that would make me happy. I watched, well, let me get to Phil Jackson. You played for him, obviously. Great coach, obviously, 11 rings. But I heard Phil didn't like practice. He wouldn't, he wasn't doing a ton. Is that fair? It's fair. So what was it like a Phil Jackson practice? See, Phil was focused on a triangle and the triangle is basically a defense. And the reason it didn't work now is because the game's changed. And I always felt like he should have started the triangle a little bit higher. Yeah, you expanded for the three points. Not necessarily expanded to the three-pointer, but just started that half court. Like you're trying to score right away. Everybody in position. You want to get the quick bucket. You don't want to get at the three-point line and then start the triangle, not in today's game. You got to start it in transition. You know, and but Phil was more into the triangle and it takes you two years to learn the triangle. New York City didn't have the patience. Also, I thought he could have started it a little higher. Something he taught me. I'm not making this up. It's something he taught me. And also he could have shifted the triangle and made it, shifted a little bit into the elbow Sacramento. He could have had that a little bit, just move the guy up a little bit to spread out the floor. You know, so, but Phil worked on the triangle and the triangle was actually a really good defense. Now, how do you, when you say defense, what do you mean? Like, because on defense, basically, you want to break the other opponent down. So you want to keep the body moving. It will wear him down and wear him down. They can't, they can't get back and have that energy on offense. That's why it's important to have movement. That's why James Hart and early wasn't winning because he's doing his thing. But the other four defenders are just playing offense full speed. While your other four offensive players got to play defense for the whole game, it could be mentally draining. You mentioned getting into people's heads as a defender. Do you see any of yourself in Lance Stevenson? Not really, because a little bit. No, I do. I do. We're both from New York. Yeah. He from Brooklyn. Do you know him? I know. I spoke to him a while ago. That's my boy. Okay. And then like in terms of like doing whatever it takes to win, I think he had better moves than me. Okay. I might have had better jumper. Like in terms of when I was in my prime, you know, just straight one dribble, two dribble, pull up. Defensively, we both hustle. But in the summertime, like I work on my defense, you know, when I was in my prime, a lot of people don't see that. But before I pick up a ball, I mean, I'm sliding for an hour. Yeah, really? That's why I was able to have the endurance. Wow. Because I'm like in the gym working on defense. Wow. Yeah, it probably wasn't many players. Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't many players. And that's when I was, you know, stopping everybody. And like, yeah, I got defensive play of the year. Rick Carlout told me that, don't you know, small forwards average six points against you for the whole season? Wow. That was like the average. Wow. Would you have ever blown in somebody's ear? Yeah. Yeah. What's the craziest thing you did or said to somebody to get in their head? I mean, I pulled, pulled, pissed, shuts down in the game. You know, what did he say? What did he say to you? He just kept playing. Paul was focused. He focused on the game. He just curled the hit of three. With his how low were his shorts? Probably like mid, mid hamster. Mid hamster, definitely. The only thing I would do, I wouldn't really talk or do a lot of that stuff. But I was very physical. And so, and I was always trying to get positioned. I was always trying to get. So if you're trying to post up, and if you've got that normally post up and just get to your position, you're not getting here today, you're going to have to go around. And sometimes the point guard on the other team, it's a fun story, man. Sometimes the point guard on the other team won't even look at an All-Star player. His All-Star. Because you just blocking them. They go the other way, man. Could you tell when you have broke a guy, like, you know, I got him now. Yeah. When they're not moving, they don't want to go nowhere. They, they just don't want the ball. They don't even care about the ball. We talked about Lance trying to get in LeBron's head. Is that really the only chance you have of stopping him to try to get in his head? The key to LeBron, to beating LeBron, is play basketball. That's it. You're not going to do any of the other stuff and beat him. You got to be your best. Okay. You're not getting in his head. I mean, he's not, he's looking. He had triple W yesterday. So they won, but I think Lance should just play and play and have a good, that's it, and just win. And that's it. Play hard, make great plays and still play aggressive on LeBron. Still do all that. But don't just let it be about that. Let it, it's about you. That's who you are. You know, you're a good player. You, you were with the Lakers, obviously. Do you, this young core, Brandon Ingram, Kuzma, Lionzo Ball, Julius Randall, how good can that core be? And I'm going to tell you why I'm asking that. Paul George, we know wants to go there. And my feeling is if I can get Paul, if I get Paul George and I know that's going to get me LeBron, then I'll do it. But if it's just Paul by himself, as great as he is, and he's great. I don't know that I max him because I'm wondering if any of these young guys might become Paul George or close, you know what I mean? And then you're going to have to pay them eventually. So what's your feeling on that? Well, Kuzma is going to be great. We know that he's going to be similar to Ben Simmons without the passing or without, not the passing without the point guard position. Okay. Absolutely. Okay. He's very good. Then you got Lionzo is going to get better and he's going to be a winner. You feel like he had a good year? Yeah, I think he had a good year. His percentage was really low, but I think his control of the game is like, you know, is great. Ingram is going to get stronger and he's a team player. So Ingram is good because he don't need the ball. And he can score. Which one and then you Randall throw him in there. Yeah. Do you, which one you feel will be the best? You know, I would say it's hard to say they so they all so close, but if I had to pick one to be the best, I would say Ingram. Okay. I think Ingram has the most potential. I think he's even younger than Kuzma if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, I think he is. Because Kuzma was, I think maybe the state three years state three years of college, maybe four, three or four. Yeah. And then obviously Randall's like playing amazing. They won 35 games this year. Next year that should be 45 or 50. Yeah. You know, so it's like, you know, you got to pick your poison. So would you max go if you only can get Paul George, would you max him or would you stay away and let these young kids develop? Well, for me, I grew a relationship with these young boys and being with them for two years. And I would just keep them together. Okay. I feel like they're going to be good. Now, Luau Dang was there. And I think I want to see him be more of a veteran leader. Teaching and so on. I want to see him around more. I think he is around more. I saw some things happen. He wasn't around. But you know, but I think they have a really good team. I think they got some good vets, you know, and I think they can get to 45 50 next year. So what are your thoughts on LeBron going there? I mean, if you want LeBron, he's a great player. If he wants to be there, you got to entertain it. Yeah. And LeBron says, Hey, I want to be a Laker. What do you say? No, you know, so I don't know. But would could that stunt guys his growth? It depends where LeBron is at in his career. Is he still wanting to get the points and the rebounds, probably minutes, you know, and then who time does that mess with? Maybe it doesn't mess with anybody time or maybe you move somebody to the bench, but then they're still playing a lot like Kuzma. Maybe Kuzma goes to the bench or something, but he's still playing a lot. I can't see your growth being stunt with LeBron. Maybe a little bit at times. In crunch situations, LeBron is going to want the ball. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I felt like Iman chomping growth is stunning a little bit. But on average, you're going to look good playing with LeBron. You have a chance to compete. I mean, but now do you want to be, you know, do you want to be around LeBron or do you want to be the man or, you know, if any of them want to be the man, that's obviously not going to be the case if he's here. And we don't know, you know, it's just hard. When Kyrie Irvin, yeah, he shined with LeBron, you know, but then he wanted out. So, okay, LeBron, if you were in his shoes, where would you go? Like, here's all this talk about where he should go or might go as a free agent. I kind of would like to see LeBron stay in Cleveland. I know he lives in LA, you know, I kind of would like to see it because I don't know, he's he's building something there. It's not a big city. So, you know, I know he's doing a lot of big things, but he's making a ton of money. So he don't really need to be anywhere. He's LeBron James. He's still a business mogul, even if he's not in LA. Even if he's not, you know, so I don't know. I like what he did for that city. I envy that because like, as a competitor, you want to be the best. And I wanted to do that for New York City and to see him do that for Akron and Cleveland and Ohio is like, wow, that's pretty impressive. You know, and I will and he went back to get us a ring for his home, which is amazing. Did you and Kobe ever have any arguments or go at it with our teammates? What tell us? You know, maybe in practice or Kobe, he's just he was so competitive on the court in practice. So he had talk trash. He had gone the opposite team of me. You know, just to play against the best teams. He was super competitive and you have no choice. You know, one time I was so mad on practice. I just disrupted the whole practice. Right. And then we was talking, jarring and playing. I kept going feels like enough is enough. I didn't start it, but I damn sure injured it. So I just kept talking and feels like enough is enough. I'm like, no, it's never enough. It's I say it's enough. Y'all, y'all suck. So I'm telling him feeling Kobe how bad are they are, right? Which is like crazy. And I said, you know, if I say last year, we were the beach hours before I was with Houston. So I'm like, you know, if y'all was playing, we were the beach y'all, y'all couldn't be a sonam like on Houston's team in the lake facility. And it feels like enough is enough. No, it ain't enough. I'm just keep talking. Disrupted the whole practice. And I said, you know, and that started from me and Kobe. And then Kobe's laughing like, yeah, I got him because Kobe wanted to push my buttons that day. So Kobe pushed my button. Yeah. Did y'all ever get in a fight or come close? No, no fights. Okay. It was more, but it was definitely like competitive. Like y'all saw us in the Houston series. Yo, yeah, I thought that was one of the best lines you had when you was like don't need to know I'm around our tests, you know, when he came at you, you know, so how did you, did you, but did you gain respect for him? No. I mean, you, I'm sure you have respect for it before, but when he what, what didn't back down, like he was, you know, because a lot of guys were afraid of you. Well, yeah. And it was, it was, it was actually surprising to see somebody like, you know, always just come right back. The thing with Kobe, Kobe is, he's always on the offense. So like when I would play against him and hit him and move him and stronger than him, yeah, he come right back every single time. And it wasn't a lot of people that was all stars that was doing that. And I was like, well, this guy is so good. And he pushed me because I'm like, I want to be the best in the league. Right. And then I was averaging 11 points. Well, that's not going to get it. You know, and then you play against Kobe is like, wow, I got to even be better. You know, because I want to be better than like Shaq and Kobe's on the same team. And we trying to win the ring. Like you see the role down there. And it's like, you know, you got to really be good. So that was really pushing me to be better. And I felt like I was getting closer and closer, you know, to that. Now, one thing I heard about Kobe, I heard the same thing about Jordan was that they always broke the triangle. Oh, yeah. And they just do whatever they want. So the triangle is a great offense yet, but these guys did break this. Absolutely. They had to. When you say they had to. Go ahead. This is why you have to because look, Kobe is super confident. And if you're going to run a triangle and Phil Jackson put this system in place for everyone, not all the time, everyone is confident. You see what I'm saying? Because you don't get touches all the time. So you got the triangle. You got to stay mentally focused for the whole game. You can't take a rest because you might be open. You got to shoot. Sometimes if you don't shoot for 10 times, you cold, then you miss a shot. Now you lose your confidence. So when Kobe, he's since that early. Who's not confident? Yup. He says early, he'd be here break it. That's he had. He had no choice. Wow. A lot of times he had no choice. So even though it didn't help us, would you get mad when he break it? You would, but he would do something so amazing. You'll get mad because you're not shining. Like I said, the contract situation, a lot of things. But then when you're on the court with Kobe, you really forget about all that stuff. He's so good. Like, wow. Phil would get players books. What kind of books would he get you? Because he's specialized, right? To each player. Specialized. He got me his rings. Okay. Eleven rings was it? Eleven rings. And I read a little bit of it, and then I would get mad at Phil. So I wouldn't read it. Your book is garbage. You brought up earlier, Kawhi Leonard. And you know that situation. His doctors have not cleared him to play. The Spurs doctors have cleared him. They wanted him to play. What do you think about that situation? I'm a huge Kawhi fan because of how he plays. I wish I could have been him. He would be the closest thing to you. His personality is different, but tough defender. He's very similar. One dribble, right pull-up. One dribble, left pull-up. Faye to the basket. Easy defense. It's kind of cool to see a team player. But he's not a selfish individual. Man, he definitely was better than me, though, because his mom was right. His mom was right. And right now, I don't know what's happening. I don't really care, but the only thing is like, wow, I don't like to hear bad stuff in the media about Kawhi. Like when Tony Parker said, did you hear that? I didn't hear it, but he said. His injury was like, they had the same injury, essentially, same part of the body. And he said his injury was 100 times worse. And he came back a lot quicker. I mean, they're different people. That's one thing. They're different people, and he has a contract coming up. So the Spurs are very loyal, by the way. Yeah, loyal organization. I can see them paying Kawhi, even if he gets hurt. But, you know, will they? So I don't know the situation. I'm just looking at it from TV. I watch highlights. I don't even watch games like that. And I watch the headlines. Were you ever in a situation where the team doctors were telling you play and you felt you weren't ready or maybe other doctors telling you not? Well, in my situation, I would play. The team doctors had to keep me off. Like when I got my meniscus tear on my knee, it was my contract year. And we were playing at the Spurs on the first round. I got my meniscus tear. Six weeks, I said, I looked online and I researched that you can come back in five days. So I went to the doctors. I said, listen, it says five days here. I'm coming back. You know? It was documented. You can come back in five. But I was playing on a meniscus limp and it hurt me for two years. Do you feel like that hurts you going forward? Absolutely. When I was with the Knicks, I was still having this problem. I was having a problem for two years. And I wasn't thinking about my contract. I was just thinking about I want to win. And then when I was in Indiana, I had a ligament tear in my thumb. You'll see some pictures. You'll see my whole hand wrapped in gauze. Couldn't even move it. Everything's connected because I had no ligaments. So I had to connect tape to make a ligament. Wow. So I had one surgery. They said six weeks. I was back in seven days. Like I'm not sitting on six weeks to put a cast on it. But it hurt me because now when it's contract time and my numbers is not right. Yeah. Yeah. They saying you only have an 18. 15. I'm like, seriously? I couldn't even shoot. The last thing this year, the referees, there's been a lot going back and forth players and referees. What do you think about that situation? Honestly, I don't know. I don't hear no stories. You wonder what's going on. I don't know what happened. Well, the refs are giving players texts like that, you know, just because and some players are saying back in the day, the refs would kind of, they might talk to you or, you know, hey man, all right, that's enough, Ron. You know, keep it down. I'm gonna have to tee you up. Whereas now they just tee you up if you say something to them. Well, it's about time because I was the only one getting teed up. By the way, I'm happy that finally, because when I was playing, it was only me. Kobe elbows me in the throat. I get ejected, you know, because of what I might do. You know, elbow me in the lip, bust my lip in the game, playing a Sacramento versus Spurs in the playoffs. You know, I go back to him. I get ejected with a big lip and I get all of the media coming down to me. I'm happy about this. He deserves to get ejected. Did you, did you have any funny interactions with refs? Man, actually, I got, I never had problems with the refs. They just always ejected me. I had problems with the players. To this day, the refs see me, they always be like, hey, they come, give me a five or whatever. I never had issues with the ref. But back in the days, how Jordan used to yamper the refs, that's a tech, man. I don't know how he didn't call a tech. Not on mic. They had to call a tech. So I think what they're doing is right. Okay. What I don't like is how soft the league was like three, four years ago. I feel like it's more physical now. You think it's gotten tougher? I think it's better now. I think the rest is a little more physical. I can see it. Okay. Okay. Last thing, big three playing this year. Charles Oakley, your coach, right? Yeah. What's that going to be like playing for Oak, you think? He was, he was my, my vet in Chicago when I was rookie. He snuck me back in my head one time. I was playing the video games before, before a game. Yeah. Put that video game down. Now, Oak was regarded as pretty much the toughest dude in the league, right? Is that? Yep. That was, he was, everybody knew not to mess with Oak. Yeah, he was, he, I mean, he, he gonna come out. He was strong. He was smart. A really good player and he, and he was tough and he didn't really care about what happens on the court. Yeah. Oak was tough. Yeah. Now you gonna have you, Oakley's the coach, Steven Jackson, y'all gonna be probably the toughest team in the league. And the big three is physical. I know I heard it's physical, man. It's physical. They trying to pull me out, man. I'm, I'm trying to relax mentally and now they gonna pull me back in, man. You gonna get back in it, man. Look, great job, man. Great to have you here. Good luck with the app. Thank you. And everything, the book. I'm gonna definitely get the book. Thank you. Thank you. I'm looking forward to reading it, man. Absolutely. Thanks for being in the zone. Thanks a lot. All right. Yeah. All right. Back again with one of my favorite episodes of the entire podcast. My man, Jason McIntyre. Back in the building. J. What's happening, man? I'm so excited, man. Playoffs are here. I love the playoff. Yes, yes, yes. Should we jump right in? Let's see what you got. Now let me preface this by saying I try not to have many overreactions of one or two games, right? We understand that. However, however, Chris, listen, LeBron's down one nothing. Okay. I'm not making a big deal that I still think the Cavs are going to win this series, but Victor Oladipo showing out if the Pacers win this series and knock out LeBron. But you just said you don't overreact to one game. I'm not overreacting, but this is... Now you got the Cavs losing in the first round. This is what we do. We have debates. We have discussions. I'll play along with you. Listen, if the Pacers win this series, Chris, I think this would be the biggest blemish on LeBron's career bigger than the finals lost to the Dallas Mavericks. And here's why. At 33 years old, LeBron's going to be runner up for the MVP this year. He's even got a case to win it. I know you love Harden. But he's not going to win it. He's been phenomenal. Since the trade when they acquired Clarkson and Hill and everybody, we have both said Cavs are going to the finals. How have they played? We have both said the Cavs are going to the finals. How have they played? They've played fine. They've been good, good enough. I mean, they've got home court advantage, they're the fourth seed. At the time of the trade, they were like the third seed. They lost half their team, Chris. But I'm saying the 76ers peel off 16th straight. I don't think we saw that coming. Bottom line, this would be the moment where I can no longer engage in any LeBron versus Jordan debates. Not with a LeBron first round loss this late in his career. I know Jordan lost early in his career when he was 21-22. And then late in his career, he didn't even make the playoffs. Well with the Washington Wizards, are we counting those years? I mean, I mean, did he play? Okay, you can count those if you want. I generally don't count. I mean, look, Jordan's a goat. I'm just saying, I believe this would be the biggest blemish on his career if he loses in the first round. No, no. This would, there is no way this would be bigger than what happened in the 2011 finals against the Dallas Mavericks. Okay. They were up to one. They had the most talented team in the league, period, the end, and LeBron James' struggles cost him the championship. He had an eight-point game. He did. This is the guy who owns the NBA record for most games consecutively, scoring in double figures, and he scored eight points in the NBA finals. And you said it. At times, J.J. Borrella was guarding. So that is, there is no question that that is the one major blemish, or LeBron James' record. To lose in the first round in your 15th year, this is why I've been telling people. When you're the MVP runner-up? Who cares, who's runner-up? Who was runner-up three years ago? Do you know? No, because nobody cares who the runner-up is. It's who wins it. And I've been saying all year, LeBron's been great, unquestionably great. But this is not his best year. He used to impact the game defensively, just about as much as he does offensively. He doesn't do that anymore. He's still great, but he's not quite what he used to be. So losing in your 15th round, 15th year in the first round? Not a big deal. Doesn't compare to losing in the finals because you didn't play well. Here's why losing in the finals, he was able to get that stench away from him. They won back-to-back titles after that. And he's gone to the finals every year since he went to the finals then. He has proven, hey man, that was my one mistake. That was my screw-up. I made up for it by winning two more titles, then beating the Warriors. And I haven't, I've been to the finals every year since. So for me, he has erased that Dallas loss. That, to me, I'm not against you on that. If they lose in the first round, Chris, I don't know that he's going to be able to walk away from it. Because it's late in his career. Exactly. He may never win another ring again. He may not get to the finals again. That's why- But nobody's going to hold that against him. Oh my gosh. You understand that players age, he is not as good as he was four years ago. Chris, we have spent three months on this podcast. LeBron, finals. LeBron, finals. Can they beat the Warriors? No, can they beat LeBron? A lot of that was what? Giving him the benefit of the doubt. Blind faith. Have we seen anything from his team? Not from just LeBron. Do you know what's about a team? Michael Jordan was the best player in the world right from the beginning. He stepped in the NBA average in 28 points on 50% shooting. Right? Great. Right away. Score 63. Remember when he scored 63 against Boston? Yeah, Larry. I was born back then. He went out in the first round. They went out in the first round. LeBron stayed in and stopped with that conversion. That is terrible. And Larry Bird said, I think Michael Jordan, I think that's God disguised as Michael Jordan. Nobody is about to say that about LeBron in his 15 years. When you're climbing up the hill, it's okay to get knocked out in the first round. Magic got knocked out in the first round, right? After he won the title early in his career. Well, he had always- Hold on. I'm glad you brought that up. He had already won a title. I got it. Because guess who he got knocked out with? Remind me. Karim Abdul-Jabbar. Okay. Karim Abdul-Jabbar, smack dab in the middle of his prime. Yes. Well, 82. He had been the MVP the year before. 81. He was MVP in the year before. Fine. In his prime. Karim in his prime. Magic coming off of championships. One of the best players in the world right through there. So you're just going to give LeBron a pass here? Is that what we're going with? They go out in the first round. Karim actually missed the playoffs one year in 1976. In his prime. 76. So let's stop bringing up the stop. Why? They didn't even have a player. They weren't great pointer. Stopped with the 1970s. They had it in 81. Yes, they did in 81 when he got knocked out. Got it. So you're saying- I'm not giving him a pass. I mean, I'm just saying- How is this not the worst thing ever? Because it's the first round. Losing in the finals, you're about to win a championship. Your first championship, you predicted not five, not six, and you go out and you let JJ Berea guard you? Let me quickly- That was the worst. Let me quickly remind you what was said about the Pacers, what their pre-season expectations were. Now we're here pre-season. This was a lottery team. Nobody wants to hear pre-season. This is a team where who's your second best player? Sabonis? Miles Turner? They lost one. They won one fewer game or two fewer games. That's who LeBron's going to lose to? Now LeBron, please don't lose this year. Look, I don't- I love you, LeBron. Please don't lose this year. I don't think he's going to lose, but- If he does- And this will be a blemish. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it won't be a blemish, but to say it'll be the worst of his career- Okay, are you with me? Hold on, hold on. What was the Cavaliers defense rank this year? 31, I believe? 29? 29 out of 30. 29 out of 30, yeah. Sorry. We'll edit that out. 29 out of 30, I got it. I mean, I think we got to just stop. No, no, no, no, who's talking? I got one last thing I want to say. I got one last thing I want to say. We can no longer have legitimate Michael Jordan LeBron debates if LeBron gets bounced in the first round. Why not? It's unacceptable. I refuse. Just let me ask you a question. Did Michael Jordan ever get bounced in the first round? He did early in his career. Twice, right? Early in it. I believe it was three times. LeBron, how many years did Michael Jordan play? 15, 17, something like that, yeah. 15. LeBron James in his 15th year. We don't hold it against Michael Jordan. Oh, you can't compare 23 versus 33. We don't hold, it's mileage, my man. It's not just age. So you don't think it's mileage? Okay, let me take it one more step further before you move on. Does it hurt the Michael LeBron discussion at all? I mean, right now it's Michael clearly anyway. So this does nothing. Losing in the first round, no big deal. That's what you're talking about. No, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying for, I'm not saying- I am flat out shocked. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a blemish, but for you to say that, what do people begin with when they talk about why Jordan is the goat and LeBron is not? They begin with Dallas, period. Right. LeBron himself knows I can't defend that. No, this first round exit with Rodney Hood, George Hill- Jordan Clarkson and just Dallas like that. Kevin Love. With the 29th ranked defense in the 48 team league, because you, I mean, I'm sorry, 30 team league, like, look, a blemish, yes. Bad, yes. But worse than not showing up in the finals? All right. Come on, man. No, I, I'm total, we are as- Get out of the zone. Get out of the zone. Get out of the zone. Hey, listen, I just did an NFL segment on FS1. They have 32 teams in that league. I'm sorry. Kill me in the comments, guys. I can't wait. Trust me. All right. Moving on, Broussard. All right. Is it out of bounds for Joel Embiid? We saw what he did after the game two loss. Goes on Instagram stories, drops an F bomb, blah, blah, blah. I mean, to call out the team in the middle of a series. The organization. In a very, very public manner. Chris, I know you are president of the Joel Embiid fan club. You have been gassing him up since- Well, is he not the man? I mean, you say he's the best player on earth. No, I'm saying the best big man in the league. Best low-fall player in the league. Um, I just think if I'm the Sixers, I have to call him into a room and be like, yo, we love you, but this has got to stop. Like, chill with the social media. We had just won 17 in a row. That's all wiped out because you just dropped an F bomb. Wiped out? Yeah, everything that they've accomplished in the last month is basically rendered useless when your store- Because of an Instagram post? Well, what's the story today? On every TV show, every website, what's the story? Delay and Wade. No, it's not. It's Joel Embiid. That's the story. No, it's not. No, it's not. Delay and Wade, turn back the clock and beat the Philadelphia 76. What the damn dude? And you know what the second story is? Get Embiid back here. No, no, Joel Embiid in the number one story. What led the shows you were on today? Joel Embiid calling out the franchise. We got one of the best young stars in the league. First of all, do you agree with me? It's out of bounds for what Embiid did. No. We're off to a good start today, Broussard. You think that's cool? Okay. Go call out the president of FS1 because you're sick one day and you can't play. They said, Chris, stay home. If I could drop 23 and 12, then I could do that. You don't drop 23 and 12 on here? Not quite. Because I got you in check, son. Just 22 and 10. I'm locking you down. No, but look, I get where the Sixers are coming from in that look. We're just trying to protect our man. You know, we're thinking long term, right? The process. Yeah. So they're going to air on the side of caution. How much money they give him last year? But if I'm the Philadelphia 76ers, I love this. I love it. This is what I want. I don't want my best player sitting on the side like, yeah, I'm good. I'm sitting out. My face hurts, but I can't play. I'm watching my boys go to battle. Oh, he's taking shots at Kawhi Leonard. No, it's got nothing to do. I like Kawhi. I'm on Kawhi side. What I'm saying is I want my best player wanting to get out there and play. You can do it without F-bombing your franchise. You got a freaking precedent that F-bomb's on Twitter. I'm serious. It's a different word. And you know me. I don't even curse. So I don't like to curse it. You curse me before this segment. I'm just saying, don't give me that. Oh, he dropped an F-bomb. Listen to your radio. Listen to your favorite rapper. Listen to your president. Everybody's dropping F-bomb. So this is no big deal. This is enough. Oh my god. He just wants to get out on the court and play. Now, if they want to be cautious, that's fine. But I love that attitude. You just backed the team. I want him like, get me on the court. I want to win this series. I get that. Tell that to your team. Don't do it in the media. You just backed your team into a corner. Really? Yeah, the team has to now step back into a corner. Shucks, what do we do? It's Tide 1-1. We're going to Miami. Embiid's yelling at us to play him. You should play him. Is he healthy? I don't know. So isn't this the San Antonio situation? Joellen Embiid's saying he's healthy. The Spurs say Kawhi's healthy. No, because Kawhi's doctor says he's not healthy. Kawhi's not going on social media or to the media and saying, let me play. Well, they're two completely different personalities. Okay, I actually sighed with Kawhi saying nothing. I love Embiid. I follow him on Instagram. I just don't get this. To me, it's not a good thing. I think he follows me as well. Thanks for all the Instagram comments, guys. All right, let me take a step back. No, but why? I mean, you don't want that attitude? Give me on the coast. Put me in, coast. Okay, say it to the coast. Hold on. Don't say it to 25 million people on Instagram. Let's go back to the goat. The G's are over A, the T. Talk about magic. This second year in the league, Michael Jordan comes back from a broken foot playing the Latin. They didn't even want him. The Bulls did not want him to play at all because they didn't want to make the playoffs. They wanted to get a draft. Hank, right? And Jordan insisted on playing the last 17 games. And he got them, I think he got them in the playoffs, but he played the last 17 games. He insisted on it. It went public. And guess what? He ended up being the greatest player of all time. Now that's not going to happen to Joel Embiid, but he will be in all time. That's shocking. I thought you had to be the head of Jabbar. I love that attitude. We're talking about two different things. Do you not love that attitude? I love that you can go to your coach and say, please let me play. No, I don't mind your call going to public. All right. Okay. Well, we disagree there. There's nothing wrong with that. Okay. I did what I lead talk. I like talk. We're talking team sports. And now you're going to mama. I like talk. You're off your game today. I like talk. We got to move on to the next thing. I'm off my game. You are. How many teams in NBA? 58? No three here. Okay. Listen, now I know this is one we should agree on. Your boy, Greg Popovich, after another blowout loss to my warriors came out and, you know, come on. We know when he's these were shots at Kawhi Leonard, when he's talking up LaMarcus Aldridge, sticking up for his teammates and giving everything he's got. It felt like a veiled shot at Kawhi. I didn't like what Joellen B did. I don't like what Popovich did here. Well, Popovich has to be careful because he's not dealing with Tim Duncan, Romano Ginobli or Tony Parker. And the Spurs know what is going on with Kawhi Leonard. They agree they were fine with him getting a second opinion. His group, according to Popovich. Well, why not say medical team? He keeps saying that. Why not show them the respect? Because that's like his posse, you know, it's veiled language. He needs to show them the respect. And, you know, they look, the Spurs were on board with Kawhi going to New York or staying in New York to rehab. They understand why he's not at the games. And Pop did say that in an interview. He's in New York rehab and trying to get better. That was during the regular season. But I mean, when they saw his results, they said you should stay in New York and rehab. That's what I've been told. That does not make sense to me. They have trainers. Why wouldn't they want him on the bench? They have trainers up in New York working with him. Spurs trainers working with him in New York. But why not on the bench supporting the team? Is he a part of the team? Look, I don't think it's that big of a deal. Okay. That he's not, I mean, look, it'd be nice to have him in there. Well, for a guy who's up for a $200 million contract and he hasn't been around for a little while, I mean, it's a guy who was playing three on three with the team and Tony Parker said he looked great. None of this smells great to me. None of this seems like a good sign for Kawhi's future in San Antonio. So what do you think is going on? I mean, my guess is the Spurs don't trust him. Kawhi doesn't trust the Spurs. I feel like that's irreparable. I believe we're headed towards some kind of trade in the off season because they're not going to offer him the Super Max. No, no, I was talking to somebody today that said they probably will still offer him the Super Max. Well, he's not going to turn that down. Because the Spurs aren't well. That would be leaving $60 million on the table. I don't know that he wouldn't turn it. I don't know that he will turn it down or won't. I'm not sure, but it's a possibility. Just trust me on that. Now, because if he's so offended by these veiled shots by Popovich, I mean, Tony Parker wasn't even veiled. No. And there's been chatter that Pop was behind the meeting and Tony Parker and all that. If Kawhi is offended to the point where you can offer him the money all you want, he still may leave. That's a problem. But look, they may offer him the Super Max, try to make it work. I got to believe that Popovich will try to make it work. And if it doesn't, then you can trade him to whoever you want. Right. And they have to sign him. He'll have more value with four or five. No, you sign him for five years, $219 million. And if it doesn't work out, you can trade him because he's locked up for another four or five years. But after signing the Super Max, don't you have to wait a year before trading him? Even if you wait a year. But you know what I'm saying? Like, you still get enough. Like, he's locked up. Whereas if you trade him now, Kawhi controls the situation. Right. Because anybody who trades for him is going to want to know, are you going to sign long-term before we do a lot. We saw last year LaMarca Soldiers asked for a trade, Popovich had a hole where we can't have that happen, smoothed it over. Could we see that again with Kawhi the way Pop won over? Now, there were no shots in the media to LaMarca Soldiers last year. It really all depends on Kawhi. And that's why I said, Popovich has to be careful. He's taken some veiled shots. At least they appear to be veiled shots. There have been some leaks, anonymous sources out of the Spurs organization. Doesn't usually happen. No. And so that, it has rubbed Kawhi the wrong way. If it depends on how much, can he move on from it? Let me hit you with a hypothetical trade, if you're interested. We know that calves could make a run at Kawhi, right? Possible for the Lakers. We know the Celtics have as much assets as anybody. A hypothetical I saw on social media, probably from one of the commenters here on your great podcast, is the Celtics. Would they give up in some kind of package, Jason Tatum for Kawhi Leonard? Obviously not straight up, but in a package, Tatum and, I don't know, Rogier or Smart and Pixar, whatever it is. But would you part with Jason Tatum in exchange for Kawhi Leonard? I'm going to go on record right now. I would not part with Jason Tatum. That's not saying he's better than Kawhi, but I'm telling you, as a 19-20-year-old this year, Tatum has been unbelievable. 43% from deep, 13-5 and one and a half assists per game. By the way, Kawhi in his third year in the league, didn't put up those numbers. We know, we know. I know, and I'm going to add to this, and I don't want people to take this the wrong way. Kawhi Leonard was an MVP candidate last year. He also has been playing for the best coach in the league in a system that has just been tremendous. That's not a knock on Kawhi, but how is he going to do, just go into another team instantly, and is he going to still be the best two-way player in the league, 25 and 5 and 40% from threes? Can he do that off the injury? I don't know. Well, he'll be great wherever he goes if he's healthy. Jason Tatum, the only thing that gives me a little hesitation is the injury situation with Kawhi. Not that he won't come back, but just going forward, how much am I going to be able to count on him? That's the only thing. This is a guy who's never played 75 games in a season. Yeah, I would much rather give up a Gordon Hayward. No, that's not happening. Jalen Brown. But you can part with him. I like Jalen Brown. He's a good defender. And the thing is, Kawhi plays the three, so you still got your back court of Kyrie and Jalen Brown. That's a tough one. Okay, let me toss out Lakers, please. I would do, though, if I'm Celtics. My first trade offer would be like, I'd rather give up Gordon Hayward and Sacramento's draft pick, which will probably be lottery next year. I just find it ploy to believe that Spurs are going to take a guy coming off of massive injury. All right, let me go to Lakers real quick before we wrap up. Kawhi Leonard or Paul George. If you're the Lakers, you get Paul George for nothing. Sign him in free agency, or you got to give up maybe an Ingram, a Kuzma, a Lanzo, probably two of those and a pick to get Kawhi. For me, again, I know Kawhi's a great player. I like Kawhi better as a player than Paul George. Yeah, but you're right. You have to give up a lot. Yeah, I don't. I don't. The question is, do I need all that? Because if I get LeBron and Kawhi, I mean, do I need Julius Randall and, you know, heck, even Lanzo Ball at that point, you know, or whoever, whatever, let me give you the devil's advocate. LeBron's 33. You said he's been awful. Oh, you'd be going for it. He's awful defensively. Are you saying awful? Is that good? Bad? He hasn't been himself. And Kawhi's coming off the mysterious injury. So if I'm the Lakers, I would prefer Paul George for nothing. As in you keep Lanzo, Ingram, Josh Arnold, and you got LeBron. Because you get to keep your guys. And even if you don't need them, because George may play a similar position, they're assets and you can move. So I'm not mad. That's something I would really, if I'm Magic Johnson, Rob Polinka, just have to sit down and really think about. I can't wait to. And look, we're talking about LeBron. I mean, what if LeBron wants to stay in Cleveland or go elsewhere and you're looking at, I know you got so many sources, so you know. And we got Kawhi and, Kawhi and Paul George could be a possibility. Now that to me is super intriguing. I mean, you got two of the best five wing players in the league. That's nasty. Hey, I can't wait for the Bucks to lose game two so we could talk about Yanis forcing his way out of Milwaukee. We'll save that for next week. Look, Yanis don't need to be forcing his way out of Milwaukee. Because if they don't win this series, Yanis just needs to look in the mirror. Oh, God, you're blaming Yanis. When he broke blood, so can't play. All right, we're off. I'm not blaming. I'm just saying at some point, you got to, you got to win. You got to carry somebody above where you supposed to go. You got to elevate people. Yeah. That's what I do on this podcast. And he's tremendous. I want you to bring me on to elevate matters. I'll bring you on for comic release. Oh, yes. On that note, we're out of here. Another episode of In The Zone. I hope you enjoyed Knock Down Jay. Of course, the top five and the great interview with Meta World Peace. Go to Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, download us, give us five stars. Leave us a comment. Feel free to rip. Something positive. Rip on my man, Jason McIntyre right here. And we out of here. We'll catch you next week.