 Okay, this is a meeting of the Disability Access Advisory Committee, March 9, 2021, 1130 AM. We have a quorum. We have a lot of issues to cover. The first thing on the agenda is to talk about the Pomeroy-West Street intersection. Then we have a request from the North Amherst Library. And then we have a request for somebody from this committee to volunteer to work with Public Art Committee on Accessibility. So those are the three things we're going to try to get through. And I think, do we have anybody? Could you do a roll call? Roll call. I'm sorry. People, do you want to sort of, well, we can have a roll call. I can, or Elise. Yeah. Here. Ruth, if you're here, just say so. I think she is here. She is here. She is here. Okay. Okay. Xander. Here. Tori. Here. Marty. Here. Ruth. Still here. Still muted. He's muted. Okay. You're muted, Ruth. But we, everybody sees that you're here, so we'll say you're here and I'm here. So we have everybody, which is fabulous. It's Madam. Seren is here too. Oh, Seren's here. Okay. Thank you so much for being here, Seren. I appreciate it. That's okay. Because I know you're not in town. Yeah. Madam Chair. Yeah. I've never said that before. I like that. Madam Chair, we have an architect here representing the town. Chris Fryley, who's the architect that's working with the town regarding the North Amherst Library. And so I was wondering if we could have that item go first. We could if we don't have anybody here for any other item. Sure. You want to give us, we have the materials that you submitted that looks like you want to build an addition that will more than double the size of the library. And so if you could give us a quick presentation that might be a little bit more than what you put in your email. That would be great. Mr. Farley, are you on muted? I'm sorry. I was not on muted. Thank you. Okay. Well, first of all, thanks very much for letting me talk about the project. I'm very happy to be here today. I'd be happy to give you a quick kind of a five minute overview. If that would be all right. Okay. I guess I'd like you to put emphasis on the things that have to do with accessibility. And I know, because we know that the rest of the library has accessibility issues. So I was wondering how this has anything to do with that. And I guess there's a parking question that you put in the materials you sent us. And I think it's a good question. That you don't have space for enough spots. And I don't know what else the accessibility issues are. Okay. Well, so we started working with the town a little over two years ago. And the primary goal of this project is to make the library, the existing library accessible. Right now. The library is, is the public part of the North Amherst library is one of the public parts of the library. The library is about four feet above grade. So the only way to get to the library is to go up a half a flight of stairs. So we, one of the second goals of the project was to provide a community space, a fully accessible community space. For the library to be used during library hours and even after hours. So that would be a good idea for the community. So that would be a good idea. And that would be a good idea for the community to be used to the patrons and of the library. So what we proposed is a, an addition. On the North side. The existing library is about 920 square feet. The addition itself is, is just a, just under 1200 square feet. So it doesn't quite double it, but it certainly is bigger than the existing library. So it's a really accessible entry on the North side. And then, Maureen, can I, can I share my screen? Sure. Okay. And if you could just, you know, of course you will, but just keep in mind if you could. Explain what you are showing, showing with your mouse or whatever. There are members that have visual impairments. Yeah, you bet. Thank you. So, um, So yeah, so this image is just a, it's a, it's a photograph of the existing front entry of the, of the library. There are about seven steps that go from the walkway up to the, up to the first, the main library level. Our proposal is to. As I said, add an addition on the North side or the back of the library. And that's also where the parking will be. We have two fully accessible parking spaces and an accessible route. Going up to the new entry on, on, on the back of the building. Can I just ask, accessible route from where? From the two accessible parking spaces. What about from the front of the building? If somebody were to come on a bus in a wheelchair. So, so there are, the existing walkways around the property. And sidewalks and this new project connects with those existing sidewalks. So from the front of the building back to the new accessible entry, there's a fully accessible path. Via the walkways and the existing public sidewalks. And the, the, the grade is, is correct. On those paths. Yes, I believe the grade is correct. It's. Yeah. Well, I, I, I, I have to say, I'm not sure I, I, I can't confirm what, what that grade is off. Off the top of my head, but I believe it's, it is less than one to 20. For all of those sidewalks. Okay. That would be good to know for sure. Okay. I'll definitely double check on that. Okay. People who use chairs that, is that okay? One. Yeah. The issue is that those are sidewalks and sidewalks don't have. Don't have to meet the. The grade requirements. Well, from the, from the sidewalk to the back of the library. That would have. That's what I'm talking about. Okay. Oh, I see. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that a sidewalk. Thank you. I guess I was by definition exempt from those. No, I understand the sidewalks are, but I'm talking about the, the pathway from the sidewalk to the back of the library where the entrance that's accessible is. Yeah. That's what I wanted to know if a person came on a bus or was dropped off in front of the library, could they get to the back of the library? They should be able to. Yes. I'm sorry. I misunderstood. All of the, the, the walkways that are on this property that are being developed as part of this. Addition are absolutely fully accessible. And they are the, the, the, the slope is, is less than one in 20, which is the requirement. And the cross, cross, cross slope of all those walkways will be one to 50 or less. That means that meets the requirements. Yeah. No tipping over sideways. And there will be a signage probably, right? Leading to the accessible entrance. There, there will be. We will have. There will be a, there will be a sign at the existing front entry. At least as currently planned. So that will. Tell people that the new entry to the building is around the back, and there will be signage to, to help people navigate toward that back entry. Okay. Great. Thanks. Yeah. So once, once someone goes in this, the, the new front entry, there's a lobby area off to one side. There is a meeting room, which can accommodate up to 49 people. From the entry lobby. If, if, if a person were to continue. Toward the library, there's a space that we call the connector. And in that connector, there is a wheelchair lift. That will take people from the lower level of the, of the new end of the new addition. Up to the level of the main library. There's also a set of stairs that, that, that goes up to that, to that. Main library level. In the main library, we, we don't anticipate. Or we anticipate very few modifications to the existing stacks. All the, all the existing stacks. Are accessible per. 12 of the AAB regulations. We will have a new library desk. And that will be, that will have an, an accessible transaction area. Associated with it. Let's see what else can I say. I think that pretty much. Covers all the accessibility upgrades and features of, of the building and, and the new addition. So there is no, no set, no ramp, nothing. No change to the inaccessible entrance in the front. At all. As part of the current proposal, there is not. We did not want to compromise the, the accessibility of the building. By trying to add a ramp or a lift there. And so we. Sorry, Chris, I muted you by accident. I was trying to mute someone else. Sorry. You can unmute your. Wait. Okay. Go ahead. Sorry. Sorry. I unmuted myself. Sorry. There was some chatter from someone else. And I picked the wrong person. Sorry. So yes, we, we, we imagine that that existing front entry will remain as an egress, but not as an entry. Currently we are planning everyone to come through the, the new entry as part of the North addition. I have been told that. There's a possibility that we may be going to. The AAB to ask for a variance to allow that. That front entry to remain as an entry. But it would not be an accessible entry. So anybody requiring an accessible entry would need to come in through the North end. Through the new addition. How do members feel about that? About if, if the town were to. Want to use the south door as a entrance. So for entering and exiting. How do you feel if, if the applicant. Goes through that variance request. And so Chris probably had said that, you know, they would want to keep the architectural integrity of that. And so. I don't think a ramp would be, would be proposed. And so, and therefore a variance request. Would be required. Am I, am I correct in understanding that there is currently not an accessible entrance at all. This creates the one accessible entrance. That's exactly right. The entry in the photograph that I'm showing, this is the only way into the library currently. Right. So I have never been in this life. I've never been in this building. Yeah. Right. No, that's, that's, and that is the whole purpose of this project. One of the main functions of this project is to make the library accessible. I have a question. Go ahead. Sorry. I had my hand up, but I. That's the only way in. And that's also the only way out. Right. Only exit. Yes. Currently. Okay. I'm just, I'm thinking, you know, usually buildings have more than what, you know, I guess. Okay. And one other, okay. My other question doesn't have anything to do with the exit and entrance. So I'm going to leave it. Thanks. I have a question. Oh, Sarah. Okay. Okay. About once we get into the meeting space, because it seems like it is level, then to go up to the library, you have to get on the stair. Lift. So how is this. Is there a person that will come with their key and unlock it and put you and zip you up? So the, uh, no, the, uh, the wheelchair lift. It's a, it's a platform lift. Uh, and it will, it will be able to be operated by the, by the user. Uh, it's got a, it's got a, uh, a gate that opens. Uh, and then there's a button to be pushed. Uh, it's got a, uh, it's got a gate that opens. Uh, and then there's a button to be pushed to go up to the library level. And then a gate, uh, that, that opens at the, at the library level. So it's, it's, it's not, uh, it's not, there's no assistance required. The, the, the person who needs the lift can operate it and use it by themselves. And is the lift wide enough that the disabled person's attendant can also go up together? Uh, the, the intent is that the, I think the width is, uh, I believe it's 36 inches wide, but I believe the, uh, the depth of the platform is 60 inches. So there, there is room for someone to be able to stand behind a wheelchair, the attendant. Yeah, because some people might not be able to operate, um, the lift themselves. So they might need somebody to push the button and help them open and close the door. Right. Well, I will say also that the, that the lift, um, is, is just, uh, just about 10 feet away from where the librarian's desk is. Uh, my guess is that, uh, when the library is opened, if somebody does need assistance, it would be easy for the librarian to come and assist. So is there any way that there could be some bell attached that you can ask the, uh, librarian to assist if the person is on their own? Um, you know what, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's an excellent question and a good idea. We don't currently have a bell or a, or a buzzer, but that would be something that would be very easy to include in the project. Good. Right. That might be helpful. Thank you. And then my question about it is the lift, I assume is electric electric in its operation. It is. It's a hydraulic lift, but it uses electricity to, to, to work to function. Piggy backing on Elise's question. Um, if someone is in the library and there is a power failure. Can they get out? Is there a battery backup that could be. That these lifts come with because it doesn't have to be a fire that. Involves firefighters, but that would still be a long time for them to get there. How would somebody get out if the hydraulic. Lift electricity is out. Yeah, I was kind of getting, getting that. That's where I think you were going. My, my, my. Generator might be a good idea. My memory, uh, from the, uh, from the specifications of this hydraulic lift is that if the power does go out, the lift will, uh, will come back down to the, to the ground level by gravity. Uh, and stop at that, at that lower level. And then the door itself is not, doesn't require any, uh, electricity. So I think someone would be able to get, get out at that lower level, which is the exit level, the accessible exit level, uh, through the new addition. So it goes down when the power goes out or it goes down when somebody gets in it. No, it goes down. If, if, if, if someone is on the lift. In the lift when the power goes out. Uh, the lift can go out. The lift can be programmed to go down to that primary level where they can then get, get, get off the lift. And if someone hasn't yet on the lift. When the power goes out, like someone's just in the library, being a patron. And then the electricity goes out. How do they get out? Um, I think that they, well, there, there, there are two, there are two, uh, ways that that would help. Uh, they'd either have to wait for someone to come and assist them because the lift is the only way, uh, for, for someone in a wheelchair to, to get out of the building. Um, There's a little lobby in, inside the existing front entry. Um, and, and, uh, that could function as a, um, Um, I'm, I'm, I'm sorry. I'm drawing a blank on the name. Uh, An area of refuge. A place of refuge area of refuge. Thank you very much. That's what I was looking for. We can, we, I've been thinking about this and, uh, the size and location of that area would function very well as an area of refuge. So it's possible. Um, that in an emergency, if someone's not able to utilize the lift to get down to the lower level and out of the building, they could be a sequestered in this area of refuge. Or could you look consider installing a generator, which will solve all these problems. And they're not that, that's expensive. Um, I will certainly, uh, I will certainly look into that. Um, I don't know what the electrical requirements are of the lift, but I, my guess is that they aren't terribly great. So it's possible that we may be able to provide emergency power for the lift. I really second that. Yeah. Good idea. Yeah. Great idea. I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Okay. So we, so far we would like you to put in a buzzer or a bell and a generator. And does anybody have any concerns about the only 10 parking spaces instead of the 25 that the town requires? As long, I mean, how many of them need to be. Um, if there were 25, how many of them would need to accommodate. Handicapped vehicles. I, I believe that even if we were to provide 25, 25, I think we would only be required to have two spaces, which is this, which is the number that we have now, uh, as part of our proposal. Could one of these wheelchair accessible places be then accessible? Yes. Great. Chris, I have a question about the meeting room. Uh, are you, uh, does this scope of work include, um, a number of devices, uh, like, uh, hearing devices. Good question. Yeah, assisted. Devices. Um, currently, um, because the occupancy of this meeting room is less than 50, that the code doesn't require it. So we don't have that as part of our, our current scope. Um, So I guess the short answer is no, it's not currently included. How do you figure 48 instead of 50? Well, there's a couple of reasons. One is the size of the room really doesn't, you know, doesn't support a larger number. The other thing is that this is an assembly used for this space. And once we get up to 50 or more, we have to provide a separate entry entry directly out of the building, out of the room to the outside. And I think as part of this project, we wanted to try to avoid having to, to have that additional egress out of the space. And because of the, because of the nature of the projects, I think that there wasn't a requirement that we had, we had more than 50, 50 people be able to gather in the space. Why did they want no egress? I'm just curious. It's just an additional cost that we were trying to avoid. We, we wanted to provide the meeting room, but it didn't seem necessary to, to make the meeting room so big that we would be required to have that additional egress, that additional door. Marty Smith is indicated. You like to. Oh, cool. Okay. Yeah. I have a couple of things to say. The first one is regarding the front entrance. My experience has been that the, that the AAB, if you're going to ask a variance to, sorry about that, I've dogs. If you're going to have a variance to, to not make the front entrance accessible, it's highly likely that the board will come back and tell you that that needs to be an exit only door. So it's not the main entrance to the library anymore. Just, just saying it, and that solves the problem of inequality also. By doing that. So everyone is expected to enter through the new addition. Chris, can you go back to the plan please? Sure. Marty, can I ask you a question? So are you saying that the MAAB would likely tell the applicant to make that an exit only? Yes. I had that happen to me. In a similar situation. Now, was that based on comments from a local disability committee or was that. No, that was based on. Between the building inspector and the board. I will say that my understanding. Of universal access and, and. The AAB is that. The intent of the board. And, and the AAB is that. The intent is that everybody goes through. One main entry. There are, there aren't some people who can go through one and some people who have to go to another. That, that's not an equal access. So, so that's why it in our, in our current plan, we do have everyone going through the North entry, the new entry. Yeah. So, this is going to get really nitpicky, but it's important because I've run into it many times. Your hallway to the restrooms. Is four foot two inches wide. So think about coming from the library. I mean, from the entry lobby. So I want to go into the first. The first floor. Restroom. The problem is the pull side of the door is facing me. If I'm in a wheelchair, I don't have enough room to get back. And then get into this door. Because I can't turn around. The hallways only four foot two inches. That's a very good point. Thank you. Thank you. This is a really tricky. Problem. People don't, you know, most people except architects who do this all the time. Don't realize that door swings are a real problem. I'd also like to recommend that when you. Solve that problem. That that door. Well, it's not going to work anyway, because you can't do 180 degrees to get that door out of the way. To get past it. And then the last thing, if you go back to the original entry to the. To the library. I think, and I don't have any dimensions to, to verify it. But given the doors and the size of the doors and that existing entry, I don't think you've got enough room for an area of refuge. Because once you get a wheelchair in there, you're going to have to open the door to get them out. So I think that's a, that's a very good observation. I think what's happening here is you see off to the right of that existing door. There's a, there's a very narrow stairway. That's stairways being removed. Oh, awesome. That's great. So that would become the area of rescue refuge right there. That makes a lot of sense. That's, that's good. I thought that was going on. Other than that, I think it looks great. I think it's going to be a great addition to our library. Marty, can I ask you a question or ask all of you a question? If we did provide emergency power for the lift, the wheelchair lift so that in an emergency, somebody could get from the library level down to the, to the lower level. Would you, would you still want to see that area of refuge? Personally, I'm a wheelchair user and I don't think it is necessary, but I don't know maybe someplace in the law that might require that. I don't know. I would say yes, because, but that's maybe my based on my experience with Amherst fire department. I don't like coming and getting people who are in wheelchairs, unless there is an actual fire. I have been left in buildings in areas of refuge. In the high school multiple times in the dorms and at UMass multiple times. And the plan, if I go back to work and I'm on a floor that doesn't, that doesn't have an access to the outside. I'm, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm, I'm to wait until they give the all clear. So. You might run into a problem with the AFDs. Protocols related to removing people in wheelchairs without a place of refuge. Can I give a little perspective to this, Chris? If you put that wheelchair lift on a generator, you don't have to put the fire. The alarm system on them. On a generator. I don't think you're sprinkling this. So you wouldn't have to put the fire pump on a generator, but one of the problems I think we're going to run into is I. Have a sneaking suspicion that the electrical code requires that all vertical. Lifts as elevators or lifts. Cannot operate. I don't know. I don't know. Everybody needs to remember that. All of those kinds of things shut down when the fire alarm. There's always a, an automatic fire alarm. Switch. That's true. Yeah. So don't get too hung up on this generator because it may either price us out. Or it may be a moot point because the code requires that it be. Switched off once the alarm system goes on. That's, that's a, that's a good, that's a good point. I will look a little more deeply into that. I'm not sure if the, I know that's true of elevators. I wasn't sure if that was true of lift. Because they're fundamentally different. They're still vertical. Still, still vertical access devices. Yeah. No, that's a, that's a, that's a very good point, Marty. I'll take a closer look at that. The only reason I know that is because I just put lifts in and they don't, they don't work when the fire alarm system goes off. I see. Okay. I think it works. Down. You may not be able to get into it. It requires power to get into it. I will, I will definitely look into this more closely. To understand what the, what's, what's permitted. Whether the use of the lift is permitted or not during an emergency. And. Xander, I will also. I'll look a little more deeply into the area of refuge question. I think as part of this project, we will be reviewing it with the embers fire department. So we can review with them their protocols as well. I mean, reviewing. Yeah, I was going to say reviewing the embers fire department's protocols about people in wheelchairs might be something that this committee or people should start thinking about because it's really, really problematic that their attitude is just, well, if unless it's a real emergency, we're not going to come and get you. That's a different kind of problem. Right. Definitely. Your point is well taken. Thank you. That's why I wish you could get down a lift on your own. Especially for somebody who has a sensory processing disorder who got stuck in the high school. Every single surprise in the high school for three years. And every single time they had a fire drill, I've managed to be on the only floor of three floors that you couldn't get out of. It looks like I don't know if these are old hands being raised, but Tori, did you want to say something? Well, Seren brought up the buzzer. I was going to say that as well. I think that's very important to have the buzzer on the left. In case someone needs assistance and doesn't have someone else with them. And the other thing is. I know we need a place of refuge. I personally, if it's not a fire, if it's only a power outage, I would prefer to be able to go down the lift. Rather than wait in a place of refuge for the fire. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe we can ask for variance. You know, if it's a fire, it's one thing, but if it's just a power failure, you should be able to get out without panic. Yeah. I believe that's true. As I said, I think. Well, here's the thing. If the, if the wheelchair lift. If the platform. Was up at the library level at the time of power outage, I think you could still get into it and it would come down because it's hydraulic. It could, it would come down to the lower level. But in a power outage, if it's at the lower level and you're, and someone in a wheelchair is on the upper level, you wouldn't be able to get access to it. Chris, if you don't have power, I don't think you can open the gate to get on the lift. Cause it's an electronic lock. Marty, you might be right. I'll look into that. I've just installed like four of these. Well, then you probably know, you probably are more familiar than I am. Elise, did you want to comment? Do you have raised your hand? No, I don't. If I did, it was by mistake. Okay. And Chris Brestrup, who's the planning director has raised her hand. Hello. Thank you for having me here. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Marty, you might be right. I'll look into that. I've just installed like four of these. Okay. Thank you for having me here. I appreciate it. I had two comments for now. One is that the building commissioner has suggested that the team that's designing the building might want to apply for. Can you hear me? Yes. Hi. So the building commissioner has recommended that it might be a front entry because this is a historic building. And the AAB might be willing to grant. A variance to allow people to come in and out of that entrance. So I'm just making that as a statement. I'm not supporting that one way or another, but that's, that's what the building commissioner thought. And then the other thing I wanted to mention, and I'm not sure that everyone is aware of this is that. So I'm just making that as a statement. I'm just making that as a statement. I'm just making that as a statement. So I'm just making that as a statement. The addition and the new work that's going to be done here. Is going to be paid for by an anonymous donor. The amount of money that was set aside for. Design and the feasibility study in the design was voted by town meeting. And that was about $50,000. But any construction work that's going to be done here will be paid for by town meeting. So I'm just making that as a statement. So I'm just making that as a statement. So I'm just making that as a statement. I'm just paying it's this anonymous donor. So that's another point of information that I just wanted to offer. Thank you, Chris. Yeah, thanks, Chris. And Marty, did you. Raise your hand. No, I. I'll lower it. Lower it, please. Thank you. All right. Well, that's an interesting question about the. I mean, I understand Marty. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how to lift. But I guess our wheelchair users have. Brought. I think they've. Maybe made some suggestions that we might want to. Refer over to the AAB. For when there isn't a fire. When whether a generator could be used to get people out of the building. The elevator board. The elevator board. Yes. Electrical elevator board issue. Well, you know, but I think there is a big difference between a fire danger. And a power failure. Oh, I agree with you. I'm not going to. You know, we do have power. I totally agree with you. Okay. So maybe. I don't know if you, Marty, would you be willing to. You know, sort of drafting. A letter of, of a request for them to change. Or consider changing their policies. Or do you feel like you're too close to it? But I think that the. The questions brought up here are good questions. Well, I think the first thing is Chris needs to. To find out what the rules are. And the second thing is that you need to find out what the, what the rules are. But it, Chris needs to find out a, if it's possible to put it on a generator. When the fire alarm. Is not up. Is not operating. And the second thing is he needs to find out what in the building has to be added to that generator. Because that's where your cost is going to be. It's not just putting a little plug in generator. For that. Lift. It's probably going to mean you're going to have to power the generator. And you're going to have to have to power the generator. You're going to have to have to have to have a standby generator. So you've got transfer switches. It's really, it's not like a little generator at home. It's, you know, I have fun in my backyard. It's on the, it's on the, the gas line and it turns itself on automatically. So I know, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, but first of all, one's a little different than what you have in your home. And I don't believe that this is going to be on a gas line. So you're looking at a diesel generator. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have a lot of issues that go into generators. Okay. So it sounds like Chris, Chris Farley will do his due diligence about that topic. I have some research. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, Chris. I guess that bell we're talking about shouldn't be electric either. Should just be a bell. Well, that's, that's easy enough for that can be a wireless battery operated. Right. It doesn't have to be an electric device. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Did you raise your hand again? Tori, did you? Oh, you're muted, Tori. Let me see. I didn't mean to. I thought I, I thought I unraised my hand. Oh, okay. All right. So while you're doing this, can you hear me? Yes. Okay. While you're doing the research, if you find something, you discovered some regulations set there, which doesn't make sense, you know, if you don't want to be stuck upstairs, waiting for somebody to come and rescue or put, do something, you know, if you think that it doesn't make sense, please let us know. We'll do some advocacy to make those laws. Reconsidered and changed. Yes. Because we have enough experience moving under the hazardous situations. So maybe we can have some input in the change. Okay. This is good. So are you going to come back to us, Chris, with any of this? I guess I would, I would say. Well, let's see. We, we just finished up our schematic design drawing set. Once we get all of our town approvals and permits, which is going to be in probably in a couple of months, we're going to go into the next design phase. And then we would be addressing all of these issues. I would be happy to come back before you. Once we have done our research and looked into all these issues, and I can give you an update as to where we stand with everything. I think that would be great. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. It probably, it probably will not be, as I said, probably won't be for, for gosh, I would say three months, but I can, I can put a note on my schedule. And I can coordinate with Maureen on, on getting on, on the agenda for, for, for your meeting and three months, three months or so. Okay. Excellent. All right. All right. It sounds like, so in the meanwhile, just to recap. You know, I don't, I don't even know if I need to recap, but it, you know, the two issues is, you know, about the generator and. To have a bell or wireless buzzer for the lift. And it seems that that those were the two items. Did, did the board. I asked this before, but did the board want to weigh in about opinions. About whether the town did would pursue a variance for the. Self door. You know, you can weigh the variance would be for them to allow it to be an entrance. Correct. Is it the one with the steps? Correct. There's like, how many steps are there, Chris? I believe there's seven, seven steps. So the way it's going to be is that it would close down as an entrance unless the town gets a variance. To keep it an entrance. Correct. Exactly. Right. Right. So what do people think. I have no problem with it. Who just said that. So you know, No problem with keeping it is another entrance. I don't have, you know, just because I cannot use the, that door myself, that I have no problem with it. Sorry, Xander. I know neither. Yeah. I have no. As long as I can get into the building, I've never. Okay. That's fine with me. So. Sarah and Tori Xander. Who else has no problem. Or. If they don't, I don't. And it's. I don't. So you. I mean, it's a historical. Door. So entrance. So. That. Except anyway, isn't it. Because. It's not. Because. Why is it because. I forget. Is it because the, the, the, the price of the. Okay. Yes. I forgot about that. Well, we have the cost of this project. Is well over the 30% threshold. For full compliance. I think. Maureen, what, what you're saying. Is that. And I think it makes sense that because of the historical nature of the building. That would be an argument we would use if we went for a variance to the AAB. To allow this entry to still remain functional. But obviously we would also be providing the fully accessible entry. On the north side. Of the building. So. We, I will talk with the town more about that. And see if it makes sense for us to, to go. And ask for a variance. For that entry. And I can, I can report back to you when, when I come back in, in three months. Okay. Thank you. Great. Thank you. All right. I don't know if we need a, if you guys need to make a motion or anything. Well, I didn't ask. About, do you guys want to give a. Like a positive or negative recommendation with your suggestions. Okay. I'll make a motion that. We have. They didn't ask for anything, but that, that we approve the. Thus far, the plan for the North Amherst library. With the stipulations that we want. A bell on the. Lift. And investigate a serious investigation. Of a generator to operate the lift in a power failure. And would you as a board want to make a recommendation that, that the applicant seek a variance request for the self door to make that a full. Maintain that as a entrance door. Sure. Yeah. If the wheelchair users don't mind, I think that's fine. If they mind it, I wouldn't. Okay. I think. I think we should also add the note of thank you to the anonymous donor to make that facility accessible for those of us that didn't get a chance. To go to that library. So that's a big input. I think what they're doing. Absolutely. I'm so excited. I can walk to. That library is walking distance from my apartment and it would be so. I look at it and I drive past it. And I'm just like, that would be so nice to be able to walk and go to the library. But I can't cause I can't get into the stupid. Go to the meeting room. More than that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. All right. So do we have a unanimous vote on this? Yeah. One moment. Marty raised. Yeah, I raised my hand. Just. Do you want to go ahead and make a motion that we. Approve the variance request to use the front door, the existing front door as a. Continue using it as a front door. Because Chris is going to need that when he goes for the bear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That hassle. I make a motion that, that the board support the variance request. For utilizing the original front door. To continue utilizing the original front door as an entrance to the library. That's having to come back for that. Yeah. Thank you. I second Marty's motion. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So. Marty. Yes. Okay. Tori. Yes. Xander. Yes. Elise. Yes. Ruth. Hmm. Ruth. Well, she's here. Ruth, could you email me your response? Um, Sarah. Yes. And Myra. Yes. Okay. This is good. Thanks. Thanks, Chris for attending today's meeting. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. It's, it's been really very helpful to have your review and your comments. And I look forward to meeting with you. Once we've addressed some of these things to give you an update. Excellent. Thank you. All right. Thanks. Thank you very much. Thank you. And I would like to thank the committee for joining us. Next by the town. The T S O town services. Or T SC or whatever they call themselves. They would like an opinion from this committee about. What we think. About the potential. About the change or about the. The question is, do they want an enhanced. What do they call it? An enhanced pedestrian and enhanced signalized intersection. Or a roundabout. And there is a PowerPoint that. I have, but I don't know if you ever sent it to the committee. He did. He did. I couldn't open it. I tried many times. I'm sorry. Was just blank. I'm sorry, but I, I looked it on the town, town of Amherst site and there were some. Points there, the benefits and so forth, what they were doing with maps. I looked only those. Okay. So I think our job as a committee is to, we can't choose what they're going to do. That's going to be a committee. The town council is going to choose what they're going to do, but from an accessibility standpoint, I think we have to choose or we have to tell them what we think. Is safe and good for people with disabilities for them to incorporate into their design. So I think. I mean, it's such a complicated topic, but I think for this committee, we have to leave it at accessibility. So I think we have to leave it at accessibility. Myra. So I've been speaking with staff. And about this project. And the TSO, which is a subcommittee of the town council. I initially wanted to have board town boards and committees to provide comments by. I can't remember by April 3rd. The TSO is actually now saying, you know what, let's, let's not rush this. And we'd rather hear boards and committees first talk about what do they think about the intersection, the existing conditions of the intersection. Where are the thoughts about that? And then what would you like to see done to make improvements to that intersection. And after that discussion, and that could be the sole purpose of today's meeting. And in the TSO, you know, we'll eventually want to hear about, you know, about the opinions about the two design alternatives. But at this moment, I am being told that they would rather slow down and start, start it kind of feels like the cart before the horse of, the horse of the horse. Well, what do you think of the current conditions now and what sorts of improvements would you like to. See there. And we have Christine Brestrup, the planning director. Who is working with the, with the DPW and the town manager's office regarding this project and is working with outreach strategies. So let me have Chris talk. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. So we have a slide show we can run through pretty quickly, just to give you a sense of what the overall idea is. And that might kind of help to set the tone for what you will be talking about. But basically what we want to know is. If there's anything you like about this intersection, which there may or may not be. What you think the problems are and what you would like to see done there to make it a better place. And obviously navigation is the main topic here. So I'm just going to run through the slide show quickly. This was a slide show that was presented to the town council back in January. So here we're looking at a map for those of you who can visually see this. It's the intersection of route 116 and Pomeray lane. It's where mission cantina is. There's a valley transporter building there. The Montessori school is located there and there are a number of other retail establishments. So it's sort of a vital commercial center for us. There's also a mix of residential properties. There's a small subdivision nearby. The Pomeray court co-op housing is there. There's a condominium that's just south of the intersection. It's also, you know, pretty centrally located near Hampshire college and they are Carl museum and the Hitchcock center and the Yiddish book center. So it's on a major artery traveling from the downtown to the south, connecting the center of Amherst with South Hadley and Point South. So next slide, please. And it does have its challenges. It's undeveloped in terms of its infrastructure. The sidewalks are very narrow. There aren't any formal curb cuts. So there's poor pedestrian access, poor access for people in wheelchairs for bicyclists, et cetera. I don't think there are any manually operated. Crossings because there aren't any, there aren't really any crosswalks here. So it's really a problem area, but it's a growing area. There are a lot of things happening here. There's, you know, lots of little stores. El Comalito restaurant is there and, you know, it's kind of a growing place. Next slide, please. So this kind of shows this map here is a map from the Amherst master plan, which shows Pomeray village in context of the town. So it's about, it's in the lower third, the southern third of the town. It's one of several village centers that we consider like North Amherst village center and the Atkins corner village center and Pomeray lane village center is also one of our village centers. Next slide, please. So the town recently was awarded $1.5 million from the state to make improvements to this intersection. And we want to focus on, of course, traffic, because there's a lot of traffic that goes through their car traffic, but there are also bicycles and pedestrians. There are children who cross the street from the Montessori school. There are also children who cross the street to get on buses. We're working on this in collaboration with the department of public works and the planning department and the DPW have actually been working on this project since about, I'm going to say 2004 or 2005. It was one of the first projects I started working on when I came here. Next slide, please. So we also want to think about access to the Hickory Ridge golf course, which the town is planning to purchase. And that's going to be an open space for users of the town parks and recreation areas. There's probably going to be a big solar installation there. And there's also a front part of the property that could be used for various things like affordable housing, or there are a number of different possible uses. So that's just down the road. There are also opportunities for bike and pedestrian access to the new property. We have a few issues related to wetlands towards the west and the east. So we can't really go too far in westerly or easterly direction. So for now we're combining our work to the exact intersection, but eventually we want to provide access to the Hickory Ridge golf course and probably eventually to the South Amherst Common, which is where the Munson Library is. So here is a map showing what this intersection looked like back in 1830. It's the intersection of, you know, West Street and Palmer Lane. And the building that's shown here in this picture was built in 1830. And it was, you know, it's a beautiful old house that's been renovated into offices. Next slide, please. So this again shows this map here shows Palmer Lane intersection in context with the rest of the town. Next slide, please. Here is a map showing the different residential uses around around the area. There's a carriage lane neighborhood, Orchard Valley, Palmer Village Center co-op, which I already talked about the Crocker Farm School is nearby and within walking distance. And there are also the developments along East Hadley Road, which include apartment complexes, as well as some subdivisions. Next slide, please. I don't think there's too much to talk about here other than oh, there is what we consider an environmental justice institution, meaning people of low income who live in the East Hadley Road area. And eventually we'd like to provide better access for them to get to the shopping areas in this intersection. Next slide, please. So here that we're seeing the project site. We're seeing it in context with Taylor Davis Landscape is to the west. There's also a house of worship, the Kingdom Hall of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Amherst Montessori School and a couple of office buildings, as well as the well-loved Mission Cantina restaurant. Next slide, please. And this shows the housing that I've been talking about. Next slide, please. So as I said, this project has a long history. Back in the 1990s, the Mass Department of Transportation developed a design for the intersection, but it was considered to be way overblown. It was, you know, very wide lanes and not much concentration on pedestrian access and just kind of making this more of a highway than it really deserves to be. And Amherst decided that we wanted to have control over what went on in this intersection and make it more accessible. So at some point along the line, the town actually took the, the road from the state or the state gave the road to the town. And so we now own Route 116 or West street all the way from the center of town down to country corners subdivision, which is a little bit south of the Atkins market. So we've had a number of tries at making this, making improvements here. We installed traffic signals in 2004. Then several years later, the planning department and the DPW worked on a design. And we did apply for a mass works grant back in 2013. For a slightly larger project, but we were unsuccessful. At that time, but this year or actually last year, 2020, we did receive the grant for $1.5 million. So we're really happy with that. And very thrilled to be able to make these improvements. So these photographs just show some of the kind of dreary aspects to this intersection. It's really not pedestrian friendly. It's kind of wider. It's not pedestrian friendly. It's not pedestrian friendly. It's really not pedestrian friendly. It's really not pedestrian friendly. It's really not pedestrian friendly. It's kind of wide open. It's really dedicated to the cars. There are no bike lanes, lack of sidewalks, et cetera. Next slide, please. This is just, you can just flip through these last few slides. Looking south, looking north, looking East, looking West. It doesn't look like it's a very inviting place to be. So. make a choice as to whether they want to build an enhanced signalized intersection, which means the kind of intersection that we're all used to with light poles and traffic lights and pedestrian activated buttons for crossing, or whether we want to have a roundabout here. And as Sarin, excuse me, not Sarin, but as Myra has been telling us, there are opportunities with a roundabout design that we can add some degree of pedestrian activated signals. But that would come later. So this plan here shows the signalized intersection. It's kind of hard to read, but it's basically just, you know, West Street stays where West Street is, Palmer Lane stays where Palmer Lane is. There are left turn lanes added, both north and south bound on West Street. Traffic signals added. There would be pedestrian activated signals here. There would be crosswalks. Some of the sidewalks would be extended, particularly down Palmer Lane in the easterly direction and West Street in a southerly and northerly direction. I don't think there's enough room yet to install sidewalks on Palmer Lane westbound. But we'd also want to put in bike lanes and obviously crosswalks and curb ramps. Next slide, please. So this slide shows the placement of what could be a roundabout. It's not really a very refined drawing, but as you can see, it would be a one lane roundabout. And it could have some pedestrian activated signals if that were part of the design. This plan shows bike lanes and crosswalks, etc. But as I said, neither plan has been refined to a great degree. Next slide, please. So the council has a lot of things to think about. They have to think about pedestrian and bicycle safety and access, bus accommodations, accommodations for people with disabilities. Trying to make this look like a nice village center, which might mean adding benches and trees and things like that. What are the costs? What can we get done for $1.5 million? And what are some of the impacts on the businesses and the residences nearby? And next slide, please. So let's see. We have a project in cost of, we estimated that it was going to be about $1.65 million. We have a mass works grant of $1.5 million. And the town is putting in town staff time engineering planning and oversight for the, to the tune of about $158,000. Next slide, please. So we could probably just skip through the rest of this. I'm not sure if there's much here, but essentially what we need to do is give the town services and outreach committee some information about what people think is, like I said before, is good about this intersection, isn't good. What would you like to see changed? And then that will help the town services and outreach and the town council eventually to come to a conclusion about whether this should be a signalized intersection or around about. So we're really looking for your ideas, your concerns, your comments. And we'd love to hear from you. First of all, I really want to say I'm so glad to see that this is going to be happening. I used to live in this area and it wasn't safe to walk around there and not enough sidewalks, as you said, and just crossing the street there between Pomeray and West Pomeray is very dangerous as it is now. So I'm just very happy to see that it's happening. I have a question about, if you do a roundabout, I've seen people in town, even though there's yield signs and they go too fast around the roundabouts, even though they're not supposed to. And that's just a concern. So are you planning on putting, is it more than yield signs or will there be like actual stop signs or are traffic lights incorporated with this so people would actually come to a stop? There won't be stop signs, but there could be traffic, traffic, pedestrian activated traffic devices that could let someone who is visually impaired or somebody who has a mobility issue to stop traffic long enough to cross the road. But that hasn't been fully incorporated yet into the design because the design hasn't really been developed yet. So if that's something that you would like to see, and I know Myra has been talking about this ever since we've introduced this project, that would be something that you could say that you'd like to see those devices incorporated. But as far as the speed, I do know that people drive, they tend to drive faster than they should around the roundabouts. And they're supposed to be designed to slow people down. They have an entry point that forces people to go from 40 miles an hour or whatever they're doing down to, they're supposed to be going like 15 or 20 through the roundabout. That doesn't always happen. So I'm going to make that a point that people here are concerned about the speed at which people drive through the roundabouts. Thank you. Xander has raised your hand. So the speed thing, I mean there's a roundabout, there's a new roundabout at the corner of university, oh no sorry, Fearing Street and whatever the street that university, is that university drive? Yeah, university street. There's a new roundabout that is so tiny that you have to slow down to way below the speed limit because if you don't slow down to way below the speed limit, you can't make the curve that is that roundabout. I know because I was trying to go the speed limit down through that roundabout and almost very seriously screwed it up. So my concern is with all of the new roundabouts that seem to be popping up everywhere, why roundabout? Why not just add in the things that change the sidewalks, make the area nicer, make it prettier. That I've never gotten stuck at that light, that light is not, it's not causing a huge traffic jams. It's a relatively quiet area, I mean and I know that I understand that you're trying to increase traffic because you want to make the night the area nicer but why roundabout? Why is that the thing? Why can't there just be a nicer intersection? Well, people do feel that roundabouts allow, you know, continuous traffic through an intersection whereas a stop light requires that people stop and then there is actually a backup in the afternoon, people going southbound through this intersection, they back up all the way past Rama Verdiers, what is it called, Amherst Office Park, preventing people from his office park from actually exiting their property because there's this queue of traffic. The other thing is it allows cars to fit an idle and therefore they emit, you know, carbon and so that's something that can be avoided. The other thing is that traffic signals are sort of difficult to maintain and so roundabouts not having traffic signals except if you have the manually operated stop for someone who is disabled or visually impaired to cross the street. There's no, there's not a need to keep maintaining the traffic lights but I think mainly it's the fact that it allows the continuous flow of traffic and people don't have to stop unless there's someone in the crosswalk or whatever. So that's my understanding of why someone would want to install a roundabout as opposed to a cross intersection. And there are definitely arguments in favor of the cross intersection. I think it actually makes a better village center overall. It allows the development of the four corners to be more natural. Once you put a roundabout in, it makes the corners a little bit more difficult to develop and we're hoping that there will be development in this village center. So that's something that we're considering as well. Okay. This is seven. I use that intersection a lot. It's close to where I live and but I don't use it during the traffic hours maybe around 430 or so but there isn't really much of any wait time. You know, like when I come from the Pomeroy lane, if I need to make a left turn toward Atkins, it's just a few minutes, you know, and I go to the gas station at that corner all the time. So that's the one I use but the roundabout, if you're going to do that, you have to take some length from where the gas station is and where the valley transporter is, where in front of Seabees to make the roundabout, space for the roundabout. And I, roundabouts are very good for very traffic areas to ease the traffic flow but in my opinion, it will create another issue. I was involved when we were looking into the roundabout by Atkins and one of the big issues we raised continuously was if we are shopping at Atkins and if they had other stores across the street on the other side on 116, how are people going to go there? That was never answered very well. So if we take this roundabout here, I know that there's Mission Cantina Seabees there, they're really popular eating places and then El Camalito on this side, the Pomeroy lane side, so there'll be lots of pedestrian crossings and with the roundabout, whatever you do, I don't really see a good solution. And my recommendation would be to enhance the signals right now putting more pedestrian controlled access and bicycle lanes rather than the roundabout. Thank you. Lisa's raised her hand. Yeah. Am I unmuted? Wait a minute. We can hear you. Yes. Okay. I'm going to weigh in as a legally blind person using a guide dog and sometimes a white cane. I really rely on my ears and listening to when traffic stops and starts and I would like to see the enhanced thing. I understand the positive things about a roundabout. I'm learning a lot about that, but I feel that I don't think, for me personally, as a person with a disability, I'm not comfortable crossing an intersection when there's still ongoing traffic and really not being able to visually gauge who's coming from what direction, how fast and not having somebody. I really rely on, even on regular crosswalks in town, people fly right by and thank God my guide dog is trained to do what they call this disobedience thing where the intelligent disobedience where she'll stop me if a car is coming, but I don't feel safe on a roundabout. I think I would just not do it. So that's, I don't know if I'm making any sense, but I would rather see the cross signals and the you know, crosswalks and traffic lights and auditory definitely audio. Thank you. Yeah, that's just that's just my opinion. Thank you, Elise. There you go. And you made perfect sense. And we do have a member of the public that would like to speak. Myra, are you okay with that? I think it's Mike. Is that Mike? Okay. Yeah. Mike. Whoops, press the wrong button. Hold on a second. You should be able to talk in a second. Okay. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Hi there. Sorry, I'm going to start my video here. I'm in my car, so I apologize. I'm on the road today. I'm an orientation mobility specialist, so I work with people like the person who just spoke on crossing streets. A lot of what I do is teaching people to cross streets. And from my experience, especially when I'm working with someone who's totally blind, generally, I mean, I know that I've heard of crash statistics where the crash statistics don't indicate that it is a problem for people who have no vision. But as the previous speaker just said, in my experience and the people that I talk to who teach what I teach, generally, people avoid these intersections. So I think those statistics are probably misleading. We'll look for a different route sometimes that it can take several blocks to get around something like that, depending on where you are. But the consensus that I have from people with visual impairments is that some people have low vision that might be able to navigate them a little bit better. But being totally blind, there's several problematic things. One is just maintaining your orientation and making sense of what's going on when there's cars going around in a circle. Next to you, it's very difficult to pinpoint where things are and make those decisions. So what I found is generally a case of avoidance when people come across those intersections. They just don't want to deal with them because they're too, they're too scary. They're dangerous and because it's very difficult to make sense of what's going on. So that's been my experience, you know, as an instructor and the feedback I've gotten from people has been consistent with what, sorry, how do I pronounce your name? Is it Elise or Elis? I haven't met you. It's Elise. I think I did meet you once. I might have met you on the street. Yeah, with my dog. Yeah. So that's been my experience and that is my opinion based on the people I've talked to, the people I've worked with, other people that teach what I teach. It's very, very consistent. And so that's my two cents. We do have another gentleman that's on here. His name is Richard Mallett and he said he was interested in speaking because he does have to go down to Amherst quite a bit for his doctor and things like that. So that's, that's my take on it. If, for what it's worth, I'd be happy to, you know, speak again on it. Thank you. Thank you. We have a public comment period which is far away, but can we let this person speak in the middle of this? I don't know this person. He's a dog user as well. So I don't, if he could offer. So if you're calling in and you would like to speak, you should press star nine. I think, I think it's star nine. Okay. Hello. Can you state your name? You're muted, Rick. I've asked him to, I asked him to unmute himself. Is star nine the unmute? He might be star six. Star six. I forget what star six is. One of them is raise hand and one of them is unmute and I never know which is which. I think it's star six to mute and unmute. Well, so this person is an attendee and I think that I have a button that says ask to unmute. So I think this person needs to, oh, that's a good point. Could you press star six? Let's see if that works. Yes, it did. Hello. Hello. Hi. Great. Okay. Hi. Can you say your name? I haven't seen her in a long time. What is your last name? Mali. Mali. Mali. Hi, Rick. I'm good. How are you? Good. Hi, Rick. It's Tori. I just had a couple of comments. As a visually impaired person who uses a guide dog, I rely on audible signals. And the first question I have is around about its continuous traffic and you're talking about pedestrians. How does that work if it's continuous traffic? How does a pedestrian cross? So that's something to think about. So you can have that something for pedestrians to cross. So audible signals are excellent. I really rely on them. I live right here on the edge of Amherst and Hadley. And I lived in Alaska for many years and one of the things I didn't have was audible signals. So it was dangerous and risked my life many times just crossing the crosswalk. But I had to go to work. So I had to do it. So I really support audible signals. The O&M, Mike, the O&M guy, he was pretty clear. It's much easier to train somebody on an accessible pedestrian path of travel than it is to a roundabout. The other comment I wanted to make was I was listening to the meeting earlier is in the library, has anybody maybe thought about an evacuation chair near the elevator as an option as well as the door and bell thing? I know in the state buildings they have evacuation chairs from the second floor up. So it's an option. The AAB does allow them. So it's an option they might want to think about. And I'm not talking about one that climbs stairs by itself. There's much more affordable option evacuation chairs. And nobody knows better how to get in and out of their chair than the person who's using the chair. So they could tell people how to help and things like that. So that's another option. But I just wanted to put my two cents in there. And many, many years ago I served on the Amherst commission. So probably 20 years ago. And I just want to say hi to Sorin too. Thank you. Thank you very much for your comments. Thank you. And nice to meet another dog user. So I didn't, I've been, Darcy has been communicating with me. She's the head of the TSO from the town council. And she's been communicating with me. She did not communicate with me that we weren't supposed to come up with any suggestions that she was slowing this down. That's not something I ever heard from her. So if it's new, it's new. I know there are public hearings on the 25th and 27th that the TSO is going to run. One is a Thursday evening, one is a Saturday afternoon. And I had told her that we would be sending her some kind of recommendations after this meeting. And, you know, because she asked me to. And so I, I don't know if we have recommendations, although it seems like our recommendations are that people on this committee for a variety of reasons would prefer an enhanced signalized intersection because it, it feels better. It seems safer to cross with sound. It feels more like a community. There would need to be more sidewalks and stuff like that. I don't, I don't know what we're supposed to do exactly because I got a set of instructions from Darcy and they seem to be different now. Myra, well, Chris Brestrup has raised your hand. Perhaps she can help guide us here. I would say that if you have, you know, strong comments and you want to recommend that they're not be around about, that's perfectly up to you. I just wanted to let you know that the pace of this has been slowed down a bit. I think the town manager and the town council have kind of realized that there's no, there's not as much urgency in getting to an answer quickly as there is a desire to hear from a lot of different people and get to the correct answer eventually. And so the town council will probably be voting in June about this. And so there is time to, to put forth your recommendations. I think Myra is perfectly right to say that she wants to respond to Darcy's request. And if you want to respond in a fashion that says this group strongly supports a signalized intersection, that's fine. I wanted to probe a little bit more though, and to find out if there are there things that you like about this place, this Hummery Village intersection, and what specifically do you not like? And how can we incorporate those ideas into our plan, whichever plan is eventually chosen? So since we literally have only two or three minutes left, do folks want to make a motion if you have any strong feelings? Or any, you know, recommend, do you have any recommendations, specific recommendations that you would like to forward or preferences or preferences that you would want to pass along to the TSO? And then we could certainly continue this conversation in future meetings. So if you have new new recommendations or added recommendations, you know, we can certainly capture that in the future. But would, would folks want to make any recommendations today? Or would you, or we could hold off until the next time? Do you think it would be okay for us to wait until April 13th, which is our next meeting? Is that right? But then we'll be re-creating the wheel, right? Say that again, please. Then won't we be re-creating the wheel? Maybe we can just say in our meeting we looked at it, but we will look at it again, but then we can say it seems like the committee is more leaning toward enhanced signaling and in addition to pedestrian controlled signals and bike lanes and sidewalk improvements. Maybe leave it like that, but we could. Marty hasn't spoken on it. I wondered if you have an opinion. I do have an opinion. It's slightly different than yours probably, but I think either option is probably a good option, but whichever options chosen must have pedestrian signalization, whether it be the roundabout or the enhanced signalization. So either option is fine for you, but you recommend that there's, and they must have pedestrian controls. You've got a lot of kids going through there. I was there through there yesterday and, and there were kids and there's also a real problem turning left from, coming from town, turning left onto Pomeroy Lane. It's people going to the Montessori School, but I know I was behind. I must have been there right when they were dropping kids off, but I was stuck behind. They couldn't make a left hand turn. I stuck through the light twice. So perhaps if, since we are, it's one o'clock now, perhaps since this is, you know, obviously really nice and fresh in everyone's mind, I would recommend that if folks have individual thoughts about current conditions and what they would like to see there and if you want to weigh in about, you know, either design alternative to email me while it's fresh in your mind. And at the next meeting, we will regroup and make, and the board can make recommendations together. Does that, does that make sense? Sure. So people can email Maureen. And then if, if you want to send me the emails that you get, I can see if I can put together a statement that we can work off of. Sure. At the next meeting. And I can let Darcy know that we met, that we discussed it. There is universal agreement here that whatever they do, it has to be pedestrian activated signals. There have to be, it has to be signalized. Absolutely. Whether it's an intersection or whether it's a roundabout, it has to have signals. And they, I sort of heard Chris say that would be for later, sort of like maybe the intention was for the one at triangle street to be for later. So I don't think we mean it to be for later. I think we mean it to be when the job is completed, it's there. Is that right? I didn't really mean it be for later. I just was thinking of it as a detail, but I think it's more than a detail for you. So put that in. That's a very important thing for you to make a statement about. And I think it's, I think it's the collective view. Yes. I think everybody on the committee said that. Yep. So it should be incorporated into the design is what you're saying. And I, I didn't mean the collective view. It did. Okay. Okay. Does that sound good? So everyone will email me your thoughts and I will forward them off to Myra and then we'll regroup with this item at our April 13th meeting. Okay. This is good. And I also want to just point out that this is great to hear from this committee because in fact, the federal leg legislate, the federal regulations are going to change at some point in the not too distant future when they get through their bog backlog of regulations that they need to look at. But the federal government knows that roundabouts that are not signalized are a serious problem and they have promulgating potential regulations for consideration and they want to get to them. I sent that to you. Maureen sent it to you yesterday, I think. So if we were to do this, at least it would be in keeping with upcoming federal regulations right now. There aren't any that require them, but there will be. And we are running late. I do feel badly if we could just, there is another person on the phone. I don't know if we do need to hold our public comment, general public comment period. So if anyone from the public wishes to speak for up to three minutes, you can press star nine, I think. Is it star nine? Six. Star six? Six. Star six. Is there someone there? There is someone there, but they haven't indicated if they want a speaker or not. So maybe they're just listening in. All right. Well, seeing that no one from the public has wishes to speak. Can I make a two minute comment myself? Sure. Okay. Rick Malley said evacuation chairs for the library and it was a suggestion. I know evacuation chairs because in my prior job, there was one place for my and there's another person in a wheelchair to use, but the person is, if there is only the library in there and the person with the disability there, there is no way the person can transfer herself into the evacuation chair. They need some support. So in a small library, which they don't have too many staff members that can assist, I don't think that will be very functional, but that's my opinion. I agree with Seren. Okay. Well, that's great to know because now we don't have to tell the other Chris that we had another idea. That's right. It won't work. I mean, in a small place. They're also dangerous. They're very dangerous. Yeah. I would not feel comfortable. Somebody that's really strong and to operate them. Okay. Okay. Well, that's good. Okay. Oh, yeah, the cultural. Does anybody want to be a representative from this committee to the arts? You do. I'll do it. Oh, great. I'll forward you the email. So I just received the email yesterday, I believe. Mm-hmm. The Amherst Public Art Committee is forming a subcommittee and they would like to discuss public art and accessibility and they asked if a member from the DAAC could attend their March 28th meeting, starting at six. So I'll forward you the March 18th. March, yeah. Thank you. March 18th. Yep. Is there anybody besides Marty who would like to do it? I would like to listen in on that. I'm good to go. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mike. Oh, thank you, Mike. Thank you. Otherwise, you were still there. Thank you. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Thank you. Thank you. So, Elise, you would like to, you would like not to be the representative, but you would like to participate? Yeah. Yeah. I would like to listen in on that. Okay, sure. I will forward you both the email and so you can touch base with that chair. Yeah. Okay. Great. Thank you. That's great. Okay. So this is great. I hope that everybody will take a couple minutes just to, you don't have to write like a literate letter. You can just send bullet points to Maureen about what you think. I mean, it doesn't have to be anything that you spend a lot of time on just as long as you get your thoughts on paper and, well, electronic paper and send them to Maureen. And if she sends them to me, I'll try to make some sense out of them. So we have something to work with. Thank you very much for entertaining us subject. We appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye bye. All right. Well, motion adjourned. I don't know if we formally need to do a roll call. I don't think so either. Except that we never found Ruth. We didn't. Well, hopefully Ruth, please email me if you have any comments for today's meeting. And I'm sorry, your audio is not working. All right, folks. Thank you, folks. That was a lot to think about. Goodbye. Bye. Bye.