 I would like to welcome you all to the fourth in our series in a day in the life of a leader and our guest today is Kelvin Watson. We're very excited to have him here. I'll just give you a moment of background about the series for those of you who haven't joined us in the first three parts and then I would like to introduce our guest. So at the School of Information at San Jose State University where Dr. Allman and I work, we have a number of advisory committees for different subject areas and Sue and I co-chair the Library Management and Leadership Advisory Committee of which Kelvin is a member and so one of the pieces of advice that we've been given over the past several months is that graduating students from the MLS program and librarians new to their careers often don't expect that they'll be applying for and participating in management positions so early in their career and there's a lot of questions about what that entails and what they can do to prepare and so one of the ideas that the committee came up with was that we have a day in the life of the leader series. So here we are Kelvin was named the Broward County's Director, Broward County's Library Director in Florida in February 2017 and prior to going to Broward he was the Chief Operating Officer and Senior Vice President for Queens County, part of the Queens Library in New York City, one of the largest libraries I think in the country. Since he came to Florida he's launched a number of innovative initiatives such as the Veterans Connect Hotspot program as well as an initiative that makes digital library cards available to all Broward County public school students. He's the immediate past president of the Black Caucus of the American Library Association and currently we found out just yesterday a member of the Public Library Association Board. He was just elected to that board as well and has recently been nominated for the Book Industry Study Group Board too. We're all crossing our fingers that he will become a member of that board and represent libraries in the publishing industry as well. So you can see this rich background that Kelvin brings to both our committee and to today's talk and we're thrilled to have him here. So I would like to hand the microphone over to Kelvin and have you take it away. Excellent. Thank you. So good afternoon, good morning and I've been seeing some of the folks log into the chat to see where we where we're being represented. So today my talk is going to be about librarians and leadership and what you know from a public library standpoint some of the things that I've seen over the last 20 years being in and around libraries and from multiple different ways. So as we think about the 21st century library especially here in Broward County which is a diverse area I really focus on the people and I think that for our profession going forward we really have to think about the people in the library not just the customers we serve but the people that we that we work with and around as well. And so that's really what this conversation this afternoon is going to be about when I talk about libraries transform. You know the people come from multiple walks of life and so it's about building building communities. You know the ALA came out with this library transform marketing initiative a few years ago and one of the things that I talked about with my with my teams that I've had the opportunity to lead over the over the last few years has been about not just building the communities again from outside the library or transforming what the library or how the library is seen from the outside but really transforming from within. How do we transform our staff? How do we transform the teams? How do we transform ourselves so that we are meeting the needs of the communities that we serve? And the way to do that is to think about abandoning conventional library practices right. So many years ago as I said 20 years ago I was I was a library book distributor sales person. So the and the one thing that I would hear over and over and over again and we hear it still today is that's the way we've always done it or you know we're not looking to change we like it just the way just the way we are we have been doing it. And so we we and the future leaders really have to think about looking at things differently cultivating collaborative partnerships within the community. Get outside of the physical building and work with the people and it really doesn't matter what library what type of library you're coming from public library a school library an academic library special library. We all need to get out of our own way and start looking at things differently and again it part of that is starting with our with ourselves. And I'm one to say that I feel like I continually transform all the time. So putting the customer first again we with what we are now have a lot more digital resources than we previously had. So some of the initiatives that we've launched here at the Broward County libraries and the library taking the lead has been to work with our transportation department. We know that people are still catching the buses here in Broward County they are all Wi-Fi enabled. So we have 300 buses that have Wi-Fi on them and what we've done is we thought about our customers and said you know why they're on this long bus ride why not offer them the library services why not advertise the library and connect them to the the Frigo music service that we that we offer and then guess what if they don't have a library card let's simplify the method so that they can get a digital library card on that bus ride when they find out about our services. So we've really integrated programming services we've initiated a lot of training all around putting the customer first leveraging digital and focusing on the citizens that we that we serve. So how do you get there you start with transformation you start with that libraries transform you use methods that have traditionally not been what libraries and libraries have talked about one of those is being agile another is being adaptive third responsive to your community. So I started using agile in my library world or my library work after my time that I've spent at a library technology company so I used to work I worked months in front of time for a library technology company and we built software using agile methodology so I took that same concept for those came concepts and said we need to be agile in libraries we need to stop sitting around the table trying to figure out what our customers want and get them involved we need to take the leadership role we need to lead so it's not about what we want or actually what even we think we know but it's delivering to the customers what they want sooner versus then then later dealing with and resolving issues that we think are coming and again hearing from and hearing from the customers. So a couple weeks ago I had a meeting with some advocates for the visually impaired because I wanted to hear from them what is it that we are offering at Broward County libraries but more specifically what aren't we offering to serve the needs of the visually impaired community. So it's taking that taking that approach so if you've never heard about agile or you're not familiar with agile some agile lean strategies that I wanted to share today was talking to your customers interviewing your customers not and as you can see I use customers and not patrons I use customers because it's a to me it's universal and it's a it's a customer service mentality that libraries need to continue to uh to home and and make better and think of think of ourselves in the service-oriented way that we that we should. Working across disciplines so what I like to do is I like to pull people in who are not familiar with leading projects and give them a project to lead so I give the cataloging manager that's reported to me a an opportunity to work with with the IT department to build an app so that we could so that we could leverage people's memories that they provided us in a digital in a digital way. So cross-discipline training, issue escalation, teamwork all you know all of these things are some easy what I think easy agile lean strategies training training and more training that's certainly another aspect over the last year that I've been here at Brown County we've engaged in a very robust training program for our for our staff um and one way that we did this was you know bottom up bottom up top down listening to new employees and having them communicate directly uh directly to me another thought about transformation is is to really understand what industries we are competing against so becoming aware of existing market needs when I go to the grocery store when I go to 7-eleven when I go to Walmart I am looking at how they are delivering customer service and nine times out of ten I am coming back to to my library and saying hey how can we do this how can we do this better um I am a big amazon Netflix user so I'm always trying to learn from them as well um you know when I talked about the you know the a few minutes ago about the the music on the buses well we took that same concept here at Brown County and we've now launched music at the parks so all of our parks have workout areas and so we collaborated with our parks customers to um and the parks um the parks marketing team to develop a new library service that people can access in the park while they're exercising we also we also made it easier for people who are camping at the brown county parks to get a library card easier as well without having to come to a physical library so you so you can see that we've taken things we've looked at new ideas we've tested them um and then we've relaunched them um and so what I tell my team here and you'll see it at the bottom of the slide is that you know our work is never done we continually uh we continually function like a like a business even though we're a government entity we really work like a business and as you know businesses are never done with um coming up with new ideas to serve their customers so speaking of businesses as you can see don't force business processes on your users listen to them learn from them um have focus groups um survey ask them questions um look for ways to satisfy their needs stop using so many um of those uh you know we we had a a library app here at a brown county we recently transitioned and what in the app for our our server our books in in our catalog was wow w o w and so when you saw wow for one I never knew what wow meant or what it what it really stood for because it had nothing to do directly with the with the library so we've now transitioned to a new the new app and a new library card that will that literally says brown county libraries which people understand um the other thing that that I would say is that you as a as a leader and everybody is a leader to me regardless of what role you have in uh in a library in the organization is to not be a blocker to your success so what is a blocker a blocker is someone who is just pessimistic always looking for the negatives not willing to try things not willing to to test things and not willing to course correct when you find out that you've tried something and it didn't work so I wouldn't be I would be remiss if I if I didn't continue to focus on and do something experiment my my my career has been about doing something not being paralyzed by by change um not uh looking at um not looking to be perfect but looking to provide the services that I need to provide to to progress and then if I need to course correct after we've tested something or experiment it it's okay so I use this one I use this one quote by John Ingram I used to work for Ingram uh Ingram book group early in my career and so um now I'm still in communication with John Ingram so I use this example John Ingram um is the is the chairman and CEO Ingram book and so as we as we know we've moved into a much more digital age not um we're not distributing as many physical books as we used to and so what John what John did probably about 20 years ago was he said I think things are going to be moving in a in a way that I won't need as much warehouse space but I'll be printing books on demand and so he started this little company called Lightning um Lightning Trent and now that company is um doing as much or more business as the physical book distribution business used to do so he's printing books on demand and he he experimented and he tried to he made some changes so that he could remain and his company could remain relevant for the people that they're that they're serving so the anatomy of transformation a few steps step one getting the right strategic vision is critical um step two execution is the hardest part of transformation step three the biggest challenge to transformation may be a leader went into a past or current success and step four take a broad view of customer demand when embarking on business transformation so we're going to get into the next few slides and kind of talk a little bit about each one of these steps and how you as a leader can focus on these as you start your career as you're in the middle of your career or as you're as you're looking at opportunities um in the in the future so getting the right strategic vision is critical that's that's being able to anticipate what the customer is going to want and again when you when you're looking at what other companies and entities are doing to service customers that will help you craft kind of your strategic vision um and help you move forward so again more people are using online resources so my focus is how do i provide a virtual a lot more and more virtual library services to service the needs of the people who don't want to come in the library for the people who do want to come in the library how do i craft a strategic vision to bring them in one of the ways that we're doing to here at Broward County is i'm planning to work with Broward College and of Florida Atlantic University to build an academic success center here in the Broward County main library so i can bring more people in um who are students who can leverage this space as well so it's think through strategies around what is happening in your area to be successful in your in your transformation bringing the library to the community as i just mentioned so where the customers live where they work that is central to a customer service model for a library in the 21st century and again it it doesn't matter if it's a school library academic public that's why we launched the program with the schools for example to offer digital library cards to all the students in Broward County and we're also working with charter schools and private schools as well and and and putting some marketing marketing behind it that the library card is the key to your your success whether that be a physical and or a digital card so realigning what we've done to meet our customers lifestyles we also recently launched a new project as well called library card for life so anyone that's born in Broward County can actually get uh get a digital library card from uh from us so you talked so i i talked about the strategic vision in being critical the next critical piece is execution uh which to me is the is is really the hardest part of any transformation you know many many of us have may or may not have experienced sitting around conference rooms talking about what we want to do coming up with ideas and brainstorming and then one to two years later we're still sitting around the conference room talking about what we want to do and it's that same talking about what we're going to do that same topic that we're going to work on two or three years ago and we really have it we have it executed so one of the things that i that i leverage with with with agile is the execution so bringing together all of those components putting dates around it and actually again getting something out that we can test and experiment on and then course correct as well so don't you don't have to wait um to uh to you have perfection be the leader and execute so talk about the hardest part um so the biggest challenge then is that leader who doesn't and my mind leaves being wedded to the patch our current success as i mentioned before your work is never done my work is never done i tell my staff that all the time um we know and they i think they're getting to understand that the work is never done and that never be happy with the you know the success continue to to to to you know reevaluate and and launch new services work with new partners so that you can continue to to move forward um so i think that i've been successful in my career is because i have not been lulled by being complacent um as and i'm never probably done with you know wanting to contribute to the success of our profession and what what libraries do and what and what i do so again don't be wedded to pass don't be wedded to any current success another thing that i've that i think that i've been uh been called um and this is in a good way is a is a disrupt is a uh disruptor uh so i would encourage you as you think about leadership and being a leader to be be disrupted think about the library as being disrupted to the community that you that you serve that you that it's the it's the place that people don't always think about um but the but i always want libraries to be top of mind so i'm always looking to create new business i'm always looking to uh be a first tester of something that a vendor is coming out with i'm always looking to provide better and better um better and better customer service and it's not always about the money um but being more creative so you don't need money to offer a lot of things programming sometimes that libraries offer so it's really about being being creative we did a we did a very interesting program um this uh this this past december where we worked with our cultural division here in the county and we did um the program was called um actually it was a festival it was a chalk c h a l k literacy festival so we brought together chalk artists who actually took books and they they drew the characters from the books on um on the plaza outside the main library that was the first time we had ever done this type of event um and the really big collaboration with with our cultural division but we had over five thousand people visit the library at that and so it's really about again making the library the first thing that people want to do uh and spend um their time on the weekends for example so this is just a something to share when you're thinking about um you know what what we've been known for libraries people have thought about us as old books and that's pretty much all but you know we're running large library systems so i of course worked at queens library one of the top five libraries in the country and actually um america borough county libraries and it's number 10 out of all the public libraries in in the country um and so this is where this is where we're going um and this is where we have to be we have to think about competing with google and amazon not for profit but for business and that's what leadership looks like to me in uh as we move forward um and as you move forward in in your library career so i wanted to share some disruptor examples um more from the business world um and and how things have kind of changed um some of these places i've actually worked for so ingram uh as i mentioned i worked for them and how they really changed the book purchasing industry um i actually used to work for borders books as well um and so uh was actually there at the height of amazon and uh how borders is no longer here because uh amazon you know focused on um the web and as you can see they're uh they're moving more to physical stores now which is uh which is something interesting as well but you have uber and taxis i take uber all a lot but apple and itunes microsoft and netflix and you can see what tesla is doing to the car industry so these are some examples of you know what disruptor examples look like um and then of course libraries are still here uh so we've got to have our place as well for disrupting um disrupting businesses and disrupting other um other entities that are actually taking people away from uh from using the library step four is it just again taking a broad view of customer demand um customers need solutions not specific products or services um so an example of this is um so i cut the cord from cable about five years ago and traditionally i'm now using um um hulu and netflix and amazon those are my web um that's how i get my movies and things but then what i also use as another solution is hoopla that we offer at the at the library um and encourage a lot of our customers to use hoopla as well as uh as an alternative solution to um to uh paying for services if they if they can't you know they can't afford to pay or they don't want to pay that we have alternatives that we have solutions um aligning with their with their needs and again anticipating that nobody the parks um the parks partners that i have here in the county they didn't come to me and say hey kelvin uh we think our customers want music in the workout areas or what is it what type of library services do you think you can offer our our customers um it with the other way around the library anticipating that hey you're going to the park you're going to be walking the trail you're going to be working out you're probably going to be listening to music why can i why shouldn't i offer the library music service to to you while you're enjoying uh enjoying this kind of park so that's an example of trying to anticipate some business needs or some needs of our customers um that that we are uh again moving forward on so one of the things i i thought about when i was um thinking about our our talk today was going through the presentation and there's certainly some takeaways there but i i also wanted to hone in on some specific leader um takeaways and what i have experienced again in multiple organizations both both from a library perspective um from a business perspective for profit organizations um i also work for the federal government and one of the things that that that is always uh relevant is the culture and so some leader takeaways that i like to share with you today is uh as well is about the culture change and how that is is leader led and i've had the opportunity to be a leader in multiple organizations and help affect culture change and so stepping up um and you know looking at my role as a leader and saying you know what i'm responsible for this change i'm responsible for implementing agile and and it's going to take you know five years probably for us to fully be where we need to be and taking every section by section what the leader a leader has to be in the mix um you you learn to lead from your respective if you know your respective business area so you know um i am very uh very much attuned to what's happening throughout the entire library system so i'm learning as a leader i'll get i get the opportunity to learn a lot about a lot of different things how we how we do our technical services from collection management from metadata digitization you know i'm also in the it world um understanding about our our digital assets and our um in our wi-fi i'm responsible for the bit for the money so the business and accounting and paying and bills and invoices so really learning all of those areas so that can learn the lead when there is a budget cut or if there is a you know another recession or if there is some new service that's coming out that's going to be a disruptor to my business which is the library um also being successful stepping into uh to my role um to actually lead the organization where i wanted to be so setting that tone setting that example um and actually speaking it and walking and talking um one of the things that i wanted to do what i got here was to broaden the communication and so i immediately implemented on my fifth day here at at broward said i am going to have an open door policy and people can come anybody in the in the organization can come and meet with me at at uh at anytime um and then i also set a specific day for people to meet with me um as well they can schedule an appointment why did i do that because that's why i want to have happened across the organization that people feel comfortable talking to leadership and people feel comfortable talking to their managers but the only way to really do that is to step in and do that myself and the last last thing is don't don't feel breaking the pattern break out of old ways of doing things and and i've talked about this a little while ago and don't be you know don't be wedded to those to that to that past and what's happened before break out do something different be be the person that brings innovation and and be the person that is not only talking about transformation but actually doing transformation as well so you the leader have enormous power to transform the culture simply by changing your behavior so it's within you to do that um so the last thing that i'll that i'll leave you with before i take questions is uh it's to never underestimate your power the power that you have to be the leader regardless of what role you have in the organization that you yourself are a leader as well and now i and now i think we open it up for questions thank you so much kelvin for the formal part of your presentation i'd like to open it to the floor for people to ask questions you can put your question in the chat if you'd like and we can make sure that everyone here is it we'll read it out um or you can try raising your hand i'll just leave that open for a minute and otherwise i think both sue and i have some questions for you too kelvin so okay i'm gonna start if i may um it's sue and so many questions i have um because we didn't have time to explore everything that you mentioned but um i am uh i was trained my mentor talked about resistance to technology and that's the what you've called the blocker so how do you we know that people resist change they block efforts do you have any tricks or um strategies to get the blocker to come around one of the things that i've done um so not um and again i've done some of these things throughout my uh throughout my career and that's really having and we use the word training so we use the word training loosely but it's really having people experience the technology themselves it's it's it's being able to um you know understand it from a layman's point of view so an example that i'll give you about so we launched this new service called the gochik which is a it's a little device where it connects to multiple uh you can connect to multiple tablets your phone even your smart tv so what i so what i did did and what i do is i talk to people and my my staff like hey i know you have a smart tv uh or you're going to get a smart tv because it's around christmas time and here's how you connect this advice to your smart tv so i so i make it uh and implement ways that it that that they can see technology for themselves in their own environment not just from the library the library perspective does it make sense yeah i had to unmute myself yes it does um and i think that that's really important um we want to take people's questions now too and there's one in the chat it's how do you evaluate what services to continue what to change what to abandon after your experimentation so the evaluation is done in multiple multiple ways uh one is really just looking at the data so i'm i'm i'm big on on on having the data and understanding the usage and sometimes sometimes there's low usage and i'm looking for not the problem but the solution and or the challenge so when there is something that needs to continue right so sometimes it's based on money sometimes it's based on data usage um we make decisions that way what to change the change we learn about what it is we want to change that we hear information again we leverage data we leverage the surveys we talk to our customers so we can figure out what it is that we need to you know what do we need to change or how do we need to change it so for example we we started lending um we started lending tablets here at brower county i also loaned tablets to customers in queen had different experiences in both both uh both areas actually in brower we put a few more restrictions on the tablet than i did in in queens and so what we what we had to do when we adjusted and said you know maybe we're wanting the customers to come to the library when we really need to go out to the schools more and we need to talk to parents more about using these tablets and we also maybe need to look at expanding it from we were doing it at one location and now we're going to be doing it from three locations so it's but i only knew that because or felt like you know we had enough data to do that was after we we sat down and did the analyze you know abandoning things you know that's you know that's also kind of the same the same way you you make decisions as a leader and you and you weigh um you you weigh your return on investment so that's how what i would say is um that's how i would answer that question as well so the return on investment and that could be that's not just financial that's also that's also about the time and energy exerted into you know a program or service that you may or may not want to be doing um then there's another question uh well i can i just say i put in the chat letting go of legacy services is a book that people might be interested in and it was written by two of my former students uh mary evangelist and kathryn furlong so it goes into some of the things that you were saying but it gives real examples of what people let go um because you can't do everything all the time uh so i would recommend that book and then um i'll read this out loud while you're thinking about the question kelvin you talked a lot about technology one big issue here in new mexico is that things like the internet are not available to all people so how do you deal with this we want to be connected but if most of our service area they are not able to access the internet at home is difficult so one of the ways that we've done that here as well as uh again in new york was we worked with uh we worked with i worked with t-mobile to come up with a plan so that we could offer uh wifi enabled tablets but we also uh worked out a program with them to offer mobile hotspots as well so that when people so that people could continue to have internet access after they left the library so we we receive the devices we pay nothing for the devices and we pay a uh a nominal service charge for for the internet access for people and so we've been we've been lending out both of those devices um since last um since last summer and that was a first for a first big push for broward county one of my first initiatives here and again i had this a similar type of work with a similar type service at at queens where we where we felt like you know people don't have the access then we need to give them access and uh this the telecom providers was a was a partner for us uh to actually achieve that at least at some at some level here in in broward as well as queens i'd like to add on to that or ask a question um because you've got the different services um with those mobile devices um being able to have the buses um have library services on the buses in the parks how do you get the information to the people to your customers or the non-users as well non-customers uh so that they know about this uh sometimes it can be word of mouth sometimes it can be costly it can be a campaign you can use a variety of things so what um has worked best for you so we've used those things that you've mentioned too but we've also done um a tremendous amount of outreach um and physically being uh places um so i'll give you some examples so we we we have done an event here it's a night event it's in one of the lower income areas of broward county and it's been going on for five years and so what i what i added again thinking about from a business perspective was we started doing outreach at the event so the event is kind of like a party it's like after i was party for adults you know it's cultural but we were not talking to people about the library services we weren't signing people up for library cards as a matter of fact so that's something that we've implemented over the last year the other thing that we've been doing is again getting outside of the library ourselves and participating in the community so i've been i'm not sure if you're familiar with a group called sage but it's a uh lgbtq um group for seniors and so we've built a relationship with them i've actually been a speaker at one of their at one of their meetings and my team is actually going back this week we had a table that that initial meeting i attended you know lending library cards talking about our services they're going back this week to actually show individuals how to use some of the services that we offer like the digital services so it's really all of the things you talked about the advertising the marketing the emails but also what works is getting outside of the buildings and actually connecting with the community oh i absolutely agree that's um you have to have the face outside of the physical building and i teach a course in marketing and say it can be you know in the the line at the grocery store where you start up a conversation just to get the information out well listen i've um talked a lot she'll do you have questions and i will encourage people to type in your last questions we have a few more minutes so please make the most of this opportunity with um one of the most transformative leaders in the profession you don't get this opportunity all the time so share i'll turn it over to you and then ask people to please put in your last questions in the chat okay thank you sue i do have a question for you kelvin um that might be relevant uh typically with our series we've had a mix of students attend as well as people who are working in the profession but i wanted to ask specifically for students as an employer and as the head of your library when you're looking to hire new graduates or librarians who might be at the beginning of their careers what are the kinds of things that might strike you as desirable in those applicants when you're looking for leadership you know what kind of things and experiences and ways can applicants practice leadership skills that will show to you that they would be good potential employees so i would say um very similar to my career i've had a diverse career so i'm looking for candidates with some diversity in their you know in their backgrounds uh you know if you have been um volunteering um as well as you know working at a library but learning something that was different than your library type work that makes sense sure so it's so i like i like people who bring different ideas to the table because they've had experiences uh they've worked in bookstores they worked for borders they've uh worked at different uh places or again volunteer they were the church treasurer for example i mean so i like those types of skills not just that you know i want to work in the library and i want to be an archivist and i want to be the head of digitization um you're you're gonna you'd strike a better um you'd be the the best candidate for me is one has uh some multiple experiences that they can bring and or interest in multiple because uh gaining experience as well i'll i'll add that at all too right so that flexibility and um that having shown you know taking on leadership regardless of the setting prior to applying to the library it's that i totally agree um uh we have a question from uh a couple of questions in the chat uh the first one is i like your statement change is leader led in your career who you look to uh whose behavior that you strive to model wow so that i've had i've had the opportunity to work with a lot of uh a lot of great leaders that i've got leaders um so my i initially started my career in the military so i look to uh those types of individuals you know colon pow is one i just recently read uh read a book by a gentleman el uh el david uh marquette marquette who wrote a book called turn the ship around um and so not that i'm promoting the book but it's a good it's a military focused book on on navy um and how he was part of the navy and he helped via his leadership to change how the operations were done um and how after that the people under him the leaders under him went on to have very successful careers as well so i i looked for you know i've had those john ingram is well another um uh that comes to my again that i've had the opportunity to uh to work for and i try to model that um you know type of uh leadership you know i work with john john's a billionaire but he's a really down-to-earth kind of person as well so again i i i should try to follow those folks so then i could answer i could probably give you a list of people that i've had the opportunity to work with that have been you know leader led changers great i think probably um more than uh answers the question from the person in the chat there we've got one more i think we this might be our last question just because we're coming up to the top of the hour um nancy it says that i recently had a young man who's a reference librarian ask how he can move up to a management or leadership position what would you suggest he do to get recognition for those skills so i would say and again this is these are you know these are these are the kelvin uh things is that i would say not just trying to get recognition or like if i'm reading this right i'm assuming the reference skills and i think that it's even beyond the reference skills i think is um i would say the opportunity to move up would be joining or being a part of some cross functional teams i would say that if there is some um when there are programs going on and and and there and people are looking for volunteers that he volunteer to be a part of those cross functional teams or teams i think that um those round people outed and and you get recognition by contributing collaborating and that those are the things that will help you i i think when you move up into management and leadership positions as i mentioned i think we're going to uh stop our questions here because we always try to start and stop on time i i want to just start our closing remarks by thanking you so much kelvin for not only so many different things to think about about how we can enact leadership and become better leaders but also for the time that you provide on the advisory committee and for suggesting this series and then being so gracious as to agree to be one of our guests as well i think everyone here has certainly benefited from what you're saying but also to remind you and to remind all the participants here that we're recording this session and we know that people really enjoy downloading them after the fact and that many other people will benefit from the session today so thank you so much and i want to turn the mic over to su before we go if she has anything to add well i was going to say exactly what you did Cheryl um kelvin has done so much um in his time on our leadership and management advisory committee to really improve our courses for our students um but i'm also going to tell people we won't send out the url but it will be posted on the san jose state university school of information website and if you go to the top of the screen to events and look at webcasts um it's going to be up there it usually takes about four or five days until we get the video and transcript up and it's on youtube as well our own youtube channel so you can either look on youtube for the school of information at san jose state university or come to our website for the direct link so thank you to all of our people who participated today and a very big thank you to kelvin for taking time out of a very busy schedule um very dynamic programs and fabulous leadership so uh without further ado i will turn off recording and just know that we do thank everyone very much