 Oh snap, it's mind pump time. Welcome to the best fitness and entertainment podcast in the universe Used to be on earth and then I realized there are another podcast Anywhere else so it's in the universe actually so we're actually better than we thought Justin isn't that exciting anyway? Here's today's giveaway How would you like to be a part of one of the best fitness groups in? Facebook okay, so we have a private forum that you can go in normally have to pay for this you get in there There's other trainers other fitness professionals other fitness enthusiasts you can ask questions you can have fun You can share memes you can get into crazy debates. It's a good time. It's also a little wild Anyway, today's giveaway is free access to the mind pump private forum Here's how you can get that leave a comment in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode Make it a good comment also subscribe to this channel turn on your notifications if we pick your comment We'll let you in the forum for free. No money whatsoever. Also. We have two workout programs on sale right now Maps performance and map suspension both 50% off go check them out head over to maps fitness products calm Just don't forget to use the code September 50 with no space for that discount. All right. Here comes the show Lori always great to have you you're one of our favorite people on social media Let alone favorite females on social, but just favorite people in general because you are one of the few people that presents Accurate good information Consistently so we're happy to have you. Thank you come on come on the show so you you had some ideas of stuff you want to talk about and we all Love the idea. So essentially it's like some of the biggest lies So we we were gonna talk about kind of the biggest lies that women are sold Or told in the fitness industry and and nutrition industry because it's like There's so much poor messaging out there and there's so much snake oil And I think ultimately when we look at nutrition and we look at fitness We can make money off of it and people can monetize it. And so it's like the more sexy the more extreme The better itself like the the classic stuff Doesn't sell well, but you tell somebody oh, hey, I want you to do this really extreme thing And it's gonna be really hard and you're gonna suffer a lot to do and people like oh, yeah, like some yeah Listening yeah, isn't that interesting? I feel like women have been sold more lies in the fitness space than men, too Do you guys think you agree totally they're targeted constantly part of it? I think and I'd love your input on this Lori part of it I think is that women are they make up a larger percentage of the just consumer base in general. Oh, yeah I mean men don't buy things Women women love buying things so that's that naturally happens as well You know, it's like I'm sure I would love to hear is like even with my pump media How many consumers are actually female versus male because I would assume it probably be, you know, it's funny as a trainer I'd say 70% of my clients at least were women. I think that's true for most trainers with my pump media It's pretty close 50-50. I would say which is not bad considering. It's it's just a bunch of three dudes Fitness, right? So what does that tell you? But yeah, that we're very feminine. Yeah But I do think it's the other reason is that women also Historically have been targeted and told that they're not beautiful enough. They don't look good enough They're not, you know up to par and oh, here's our makeup. Here's our shoes. Here's your dress Here's the things you could do to make yourself look better So it's like natural that we could move that into the fitness space and use the same tactics and I mean the industry tells you that you need to be leaner and you need to be thinner But you need to be more athletic looking, but you know, you can't be too small You have a big butt, too You know, it's like it's all these things and it's like this moving target That's like you just can't do it like I think my best friend I were actually joking about this I was like man, I would love to just make a social media post and be just like, you know it once I would say like have a big butt have abs and then like You know like being able to lift heavy weights performance, whatever and be like pick two like you can't do It's really hard to do all three and and yeah, you know, most people are like, oh, well I want a really big butt, but I also want to be shredded and I want to have a six pack I want to be able to like hit PRs and you know lift all the way It's like like we we can kind of get the best of both worlds But it's like they're all different opposite spectrums, right? Like one in balls having a lot of food and you know actually being able to recover and then you know It's like well, if you want a six pack like you got to be tiny You got to be lean like you're probably not eaten, you know with tons of food But you know like if you want a big butt like you can't have a big juicy booty and Not have the calories to feel for your body to create that right? I think that I almost think too that this it's getting worse before it's getting better And I think some of it has to do with I drop this stat on on the show Like I don't know a long time ago when I first looked up. There's an app I forget the name of the app But it's it's like the most one of the most downloaded apps that allows you to kind of like manipulate your face and your body It's like it's one of those filter like face-tune or yes It's I think that might be it like and the amount of people that actually use that is like crazy And so I and I remember I'll never forget the first time that I saw my two nieces. I have two nieces and a cousin And these were different situations that and I would have never guessed that they use it because I see their their Instagram And I and I know them in person so that they look like it I guess I've never really investigated But even the slightest little details like I caught my my cousin doing this where there was a post of her and her Girlfriends on on the beach in a bikini and she just you know shave her hips and just a just a tiny bit more because it was just a bad Angle where she's at and it's and and they like justified is like You don't want to do a lot because and that's really faked and people but it's become common practice to manipulate those things So I think that's Perpetuating the problem is like people think like they see Kim Kardashian Social media in general right because and I mean I'm guilty of this too It's you know like if I'm filming a lifting set I might you know set up my camera I look at it after I'm like oh that was not a good angle And then you know you move the camera three or four inches, you know a different direction and you look totally different, right? And that's even I would say that you know It's like we'll film with really high quality like Sony cameras that are you know shooting in 4k And then if you shoot with your iPhone like it looks like you're shooting with a potato, right? And so it's like I actually would love I've been meaning to do that Where it's like you know film one set with like the nice camera and then film one set with my phone and be like by the way Like this is the same body, but like one can pick up more pixels more details because it's like I think again You know it's like on social media like I'm five three and and feedback I get all the time when people meet me in real life is like. Oh, I thought you were like five eight It's just like well, I mean like my phone's always I looked on I'm not so already man. We met I don't remember where we were traveling We're like we were at an airport and then we seen this guy I'm not gonna call him out, but we seen this dude That's got like a big Instagram following and Adam's like dude. He's like five three. I had no idea And like yeah, you look at his page and you think he's like six foot tall It's like after I remember afterwards I because I was so blown away by how much shorter he was in real life And then I went and you're to the point you're making right now is he does a really good job of like shooting all his photos like down You learn your angles. Yeah, just you know, like that's it just kind of comes naturally It's not like you're you're trying to do anything special or it's just like you learn what angles look good You know you learn what doesn't that's like for most people, you know on social media And I mean they've done Netflix documentaries about this now where it's like how bad social media is for people's health because You know, it's like even if I'm doing this if I'm on my story. I'm probably using a filter You know, it's like I would never just like snap a picture and like pop it up on my feed You know, it's like I'm probably going to use some sort of preset so that it matches You know the color and the vibe and the feel of my feet or you know stuff like that So it's like we just live in this world where everything's a little bit Doctored and because our normal and you you just get used to not only that but it's also kind of it's almost It's it's hard to to judge someone for doing that when the algorithm and the views pay you to do that And you're running a business So how can I judge you for kind of doing that? It's like hey listen? This is my livelihood and hey if I match my photos all with kind of the same filter and it gets 10% more views it would be almost silly not to do that So you made a comment earlier and I think this is important to know So you said that it's really easy to sell fitness when it's sexy extreme Crazy you make crazy false promises and that's a hundred percent true Right, it's always been like that in the fitness space if I can tell if I tell you Take this pill and you'll lose 30 pounds in 30 days and here's these before and afters That's easy to sell versus hey if you hire me it's gonna take a year and a half to lose 30 pounds It's gonna be a lot of hard work. We have to change all these different behaviors on stuff So it's totally true So one thing that we've done with with mine pump that I see you doing as well is you fight fire with fire in other words You use similar tactics, but you sell the truth and that is very hard to do It's very hard to sell the truth So you have to be very smart with how you do it you have to find a good angle because the if this is a fight It's a battle over the you know, whatever the minds and souls of people who are trying to get in better shape Because the truth is although there's a lot of issues and problems in the fitness industry Here's the other side of it. It's the only industry I can I know of that actually has the solutions for our health epidemics There's the only people in the fitness space There are only people in the fitness space that I know of that actually can communicate effectively Proper relationships with food and loving your body so it's you know in real ways So it's like, you know, we have to figure out how to outsell The shitty ideas with the right ideas look like you said, you know, it's like sex sells and I think it's so easy And you know, it's like paradigm training methods my company. We were guilty of this too It's like when we started our company back in 2018 if we did photo shoots if we were shooting anything, you know For social media the website it would be like I'm in a sports bra super tiny shorts Like my business partner Brian would be you know shirtless and and so it's so funny now because it's like if you look at Our social media if you look at our website, it's like I want clothes on like I don't want my body to be the focus because that's not what we're about And also, you know, it's like I don't want to be selling the idea that being, you know A thin white female is the ideal body type. It's like that's one body type But you know so many there's so many different body types out there and all of them are worth Celebrating but health doesn't have a size right like health and wellness doesn't have a size And so it's like, you know, when we start looking at messaging It's like that was a conscious decision. We made where it was like, yo Like when we are shooting content for our company now, it's like I just want you to be, you know It's like we want to create FOMO and we want people to see our workouts me like dang You like people look like they're having so much fun like I want to be a part of that rather than again You're just like, ooh, look at my body. Look at how you know shred I am ejecting And so it's like with both our companies, you know It's like what we do a really good job of is we're education first because education drives empowerment, right? So it's like with you guys, you have a podcast, you know, you have blogs that you're putting out You're putting out content every single day For free because there shouldn't be a barrier of access to people loving their body and understanding how to, you know Effectively reach their goals, right? And so it's like when people ask my why it's like every day Like that's all I do is just put out free content and I'm looking at what are people struggling with? How do we put out resources for people to no longer be at war with their body to love their body to effectively, you know Whether it's you're trying to lose body fat and get healthier or you know, you're trying to gain muscle You're trying to get a more athletic figure, you know, there's so much bullshit to weed through and so how do we effectively help people get there? It's it's education first and we don't get that in school We don't you know, how many people go through school? They graduate maybe they even get a master's and it's like they still don't know how to feed themselves And they don't know how to eat healthier, you know, again, they don't know the types of exercise modalities They should be doing to elicit certain responses, you know, it's like we we skip that and I don't know I was thinking about this recently where it's like, I don't know that I wish there was more education because I feel like The nutrition education we would get wouldn't be good Okay, I'm sure it'd be like the 90s outdated stuff of like, well, you should Like I don't I don't know which is better of Maybe if we received outdated information or again, you know stuff That's very Government-run and this and that whatever versus like the no education that we get and so it's like for most people It's like you hit your 20s or maybe it's the time that you start having kids are like, oh I need to learn how to actually take care of my body here. I have this little kid that like it's gonna be defended on me for food I gotta figure this out. And so, you know, it's such a bizarre and broken system because the reality of the situation. It's like We'll we eat food our entire lives and we don't know we don't have any occasion You know education or understanding around that. And so where do we turn to? Well, you know in my generation was like you would go to the drugstore and pick up like Cosmopolitan shape magazine Stuff like that now It's like you have Pinterest and we know that Pinterest is kind of where dreams go to die and then present day You know, it's like you have social media and and you know, it's like there are great people that are you know There's content creators that are putting out great, you know Information then equal parts, you know terrible information. So it's just it's a shit show It's absolutely a shit show and so it's why I'm so excited for today's episode because it's like Well, if we really dial it back, you know, like what are the big, you know, rocks that we can discuss of just helping people navigate that shit Can we start with nutrition? I mean like in terms of a female perspective, like What do you see is like some of the grossest offenders in terms of like information that's sort of dissuading You know females from really getting, you know, that that that proper information that they lie number one Lie number one I think especially the past two to three years Keto and intermittent fasting have been the two most hot topics that I just wish like they would go away Because the reality of the situation is that you know, it's like when we do studies more times than not we're doing studies on Men and then we're taking that same information and we're applying it to Individuals that menstruate and individuals that you know are able to bear children and get pregnant and have babies and so you know It's like we're we're studying an apple But then we're taking that information and trying to apply it to an orange and we're assuming that the outcome is gonna be the same And it's not just because they're both fruit. Yeah, like just because they're both fruit It's just not the same outcome And so it's like when we're talking about individuals that menstruate and individuals that have a menstrual cycle It's like well, you know ultimately a body that feels safe is a body that's able to and wants to reproduce And so if we're going extended periods of time without eating well, that's you know Compunded over time. That's a really fast-track way to your body not feeling safe Like if we're not regularly and reliably getting food Well, why would your body feel safe and able to grow and house a baby or you know, same thing like when we start talking about Specific diet modalities. It's like Ultimately like if we really dial things back, it's like we don't want to be excluding certain food groups long time You know for long periods over time It's like again most people and I would assume most individuals watching this podcast love being active likely You know enjoy lifting and stuff like that And so when we start talking about eating modalities where we're getting rid of carbs Okay, the very fuel source that typically our body prefers to run off of well same thing You know, it's like we might see you that maybe keto is great for men But you know again, it's like can it work for women totally with an asterisk because again It's like everything works until it doesn't and so we just have to be so careful And it's not to say that there needs to be you know specific dietary restrictions of of men versus women But we just have to be more mindful of the gun You know, it's like women have a superpower that whether or not we choose to use it and you're whether or not you want to Have babies and reproduce you know It's like our bodies are just wired a little bit differently and so our body has different safeguards And our body is going to react differently to different inputs than our counterparts that don't have a menstrual So studies actually show that they show that fasting Can have negative effects on women sooner and more often than it will with men I actually experienced this with clients So I would have When fasting become a thing clients would want to try it out and they been so like okay And I would talk to them about the pros cons then they tried out and I noticed with some of my female clients They would gain kind of stress response sometimes Hair falling out. Yeah, they would have changes in their menstrual cycle Changes in their energy where it would either be wired or tired more often than men and then with keto I know that there's been some stuff to show that women can often get thyroid issues from avoiding carbohydrates for too long But really if you go and here's my opinion forget all that for a second If if and I think there's applications for both in specific populations But if you completely avoid a macronutrient that's available everywhere or You go for long periods without food and you're going into that already with a not necessarily healthy relationship with food Somebody comes to me Wants to lose weight. They've done the up and down dieting. They don't feel very good about themselves They don't necessarily have a good relationship with food and my answer is here's the answer Don't eat all these foods ever or don't eat for eight hours a day I'm feeding this dysfunction and probably making it worse. That's one of my biggest Like the way you eat an exercise should provide freedom and peace of mind and not stress Yeah, like not stress, but also it's just like from a quality of life perspective. It's like, well You know if we're talking about excluding carbs, it's like, well, how many food groups does that eliminate because that's suddenly No pancakes, no breakfast cereal, no granola, you know, no muffins And you know, yeah, no fruit and it's like Should we you know, some of those foods like do we want to be eating them every single day of our life for every Single meal. No, but it's like again, like we we want Sustainable habits and we don't want to be doing things that we couldn't be doing forever And so it's like when we're leaning and heavily to these extreme measures, you know Sometimes you have to do that to achieve a goal or to achieve an outcome But again, you know, it's like so many people kind of get broken by diet culture And so many people get these really disordered relationships and habits and and just ways of eating and it's like, well Ultimately in the nutrition fitness space, you know, we're trying to go From point a to point b and so if you could achieve the same outcome But still be able to eat those foods and still be able to have, you know, the cake on your kid's birthday Why wouldn't you want that? Like why would you want to have to white knuckle and and suffer and struggle if You know, somebody could take you the other way Hold your hand and you know, yeah, it might take you a little bit longer to get there But I think that most people, you know, if you said, hey, you know, you're you're trying to achieve this outcome Would you rather achieve this outcome and it might take a little bit longer? But you can still have the cake on your kid's birthday and you can still have Date nights and maybe you can, you know, go out and you know, have a drink on occasion Versus like hey for the next six months, uh, you're gonna eat this may calories and you're not gonna go on dates And you're not gonna your travel is going to be miserable because you can't enjoy yourself You know, it's like they're still going to be people that choose that outcome and that's fine, too But most people want that other route and so it's just so education based where it's like How can we enjoy life while also effectively working towards our goals because then it becomes sustainable sustainable I think it's the wrong people Gravitating to these diets for the wrong reasons and that's because here's the thing. I think Keto and intermittent fasting have tremendous value For specific groups If I have a client that I pick up and they have orthorexia and they cannot go a day without weighing them I love to teach them intermittent fasting to break those chains Away from the food like that and it's extremely valuable that person If you have someone that have severe autoimmune issues, the keto diet could be life changing for that person But the problem is a majority of people that hop on these diets hop on it because they want to lose weight I heard a friend who lost 20 pounds And so they are going after a look or trying to go after a Diet like this to lose weight and the truth is these diets aren't necessarily great for that And the problem is the diet that all the research to support these diets Add that in there as a benefit. Oh, and it's great for losing weight So then everybody thinks that oh, this is what I should do to lose weight and the truth is listen I don't want to demonize these two things intermittent fasting and keto There's lots of value in them But I would say that the where the problem lies is that a majority of the people that gravitate to these things Gravitate to them for the wrong reasons and then the next one which is that you know that you listed was like that fat or carbs It used to be fat by the way We're all of the generation where um, and we're you know older than you are I remember when fat was the problem Everything was about that Had like it was like scrambled eggs and then like the bacon was making like a sad face and I forget what the headline was But it was like that was like one of the big things where it was like fat is bad it's still like if I work with clients that are kind of in like the 45 to 60 age gap you see that you see that on food logs where it'll be like everything is like low fat Yoga low fat this you know, it's like you're only eating super lean cuts of meat So it'd be like chicken breast chicken breast chicken breast tuna Tilapia tilapia the grocery store still provides it So that's how you know it's still a prevalent problem in the in in our industry because there's still tons of everything You do low fat non-fat stuff We got hammered for decades hammered for decades that fat was bad for you literally everything was about how bad fat was Which is hilarious. There's the picture right there We'll post that up on the on this video But I it's crazy considering fat, especially fat is an essential macronutrient in other words if you don't eat enough fat you die I don't care what your calories are. In fact, there's a condition. I can't remember the name of it, but Trappers and hunters in the wilderness of the midwest, you know back where I don't know 100 200 years ago Some of them would starve to death even though they would catch tons of rabbits rabbits But they would starve because the rabbits were so lean So they I forgot the name of it But they actually it was like rabbit starvation or something like that And they would die or go mad because they didn't have enough fat and here we are telling people Fat is bad for you, which is now on that tip. Do you ever I'm sure you get clients like this I used to all the time were especially females they show up you talk to them about their food And you're like, uh, let's increase your fat and see what happens and then boom my skin looks better My hair looks better. I have so much more energy. I feel about my libido's back like The thing is it's like healthy fats are so important for so many different things in the body So it's like if we're talking about, you know, joint health if we're talking about like you said, you know skin and skin conditions That's absolutely huge. Um, especially, you know, when we're talking about omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids It's like if you have a super inflammatory diet We can change a lot of those inflammation levels and that shows up in things like your skin and your hair and you know How you feel in the day to day and how you recover from workouts Um dietary fat is so important for you know, your thyroid health your menstrual health You know, it's a part of and helps, you know with your hormones as a whole and so it's like Again, like the the best way of eating is when we're consuming all the things and it's like for sure You know, if we're in a calorie deficit, we have to take calories from somewhere But it's like especially again, I tend to work with the population of individuals that menstruate and so it's like A couple different things but it's like I'm always going to be really mindful of how You know, how low I'm taking somebody's fat levels because you start to see that where it's like, you know If somebody comes to me and they're like, hey, you know My menstrual cycle has been missing the past year or two Um, and you look at food logs and you're like, oh, well, you're eating like 35 40 grams of fat Like I'm not surprised and it's almost like it's a joke, right? Because it's like maybe Two or three months later you start dialing up their food. Maybe they get up to you know, 60 70 grams of fat And then all of a sudden, you know, boom Oh shocker like the one thing that you know contributes to all this so especially with the menstruation population It's like we we just want to be cognizant of that And so, you know, it's like everybody is going to have different food needs But we kind of start looking at minimums where it's like you'll notice certain trends where it's like Well, if you're eating really really low carb that can be such a big driving factor for thyroid problems or hormone and menstrual cycle problems Because again, you know, it's like most individuals, especially they're listening to this podcast, you're active you like working out So you're falling into that under recovery trap. Also, it's like well You're you're doing this exercise modality But then you're not putting the fuel in the car that the car needs to do the thing, right? Um, so it's like with both of them It's like we have to find you know, everybody's going to be a little bit different on How many carbs a day they can tolerate and how many carbs they need to You know support their activity levels in the gym and outside the gym and stuff like that But it's like we we really start to see issues when we go the extreme So we don't want to be super low fat. We don't want to see super low carbs You know, it's like we want to be eating all the macros and you know, the big the big no-carb movement happened because Somebody capitalized on the fact that everybody was saying low fat for so long So one of the most effective marketing strategies Go the opposite is go the opposite and you get a lot of attention So, you know Atkins comes out with his book in the 90s And he said the opposite of what whatever everyone else was saying and because it's low calorie Of course, I'll lose weight on it and it just totally blew up the next point that you came up with I love because uh, I have uh, you know, my my son's 10 months old So my wife just had the baby, you know 10 months ago And my wife is a trainer. She's been in fitness. You know, obviously I'm in fitness for a long time But you still fall into this like, you know, right after you have your baby You need to bounce back and here's what you do to bounce back get back to your previous shape and women feel so much pressure And this is a challenging and of course observing this from the outside I could see how challenging it is because well and social media makes it work Right like the issue with social medias. That's like, yeah, there's always that chick who's like showing Two months out. She's got abs already again. You're like she did it Yeah, and you know again, it's like this messaging towards the pregnant and postpartum community has always been prevalent but social media Expedites it and you just see it more because again, you know people are sharing their journey because it creates a way for them to connect with other people And and and you know again, it's like this blessing and a curse because yeah, you know, it's like you're expected To have this baby and then just oh you should you should be snapping right back It's like the body doesn't work like that. Um, I will give a shout out to Meg squats who I follow on instagram because she is currently six weeks postpartum and so she had posted and You know six weeks is when they say like, oh, hey, you're clear to go back to exercise like blue And so her caption was incredible because she posted a picture of herself and she said like hey y'all like technically I'm clear to you know, my doctor says who you're good And I'm not ready to go back to exercise and she was fit as fuck You know prior to your pregnancy like she was a you know a power lifter and very in shape And so I think that's so powerful messaging because again, you know, it's like Here is somebody that was so athletic and here she's struggling just as much, you know postpartum And it's like everybody's gonna have a different pregnancy Everybody's gonna have a different reaction and then especially, you know, well, how many kids are we now having because it's like I see, you know, I used to see all the time with clients where it was like, you know Let's say kid one you were at 100% and then you know, you had the baby and maybe now we're at like 80% And then by kid two you're like 60% and you know, it just gets harder and harder for most people With every pregnancy because it's like your body's going through such an incredible but such a stressful thing of growing, you know carrying a baby for nine months Then, you know, we have the baby and obviously the actual, you know, giving birth is very Difficult and stressful on the body, but then we slide into breastfeeding, you know, you're not sleeping a ton You're not obviously, you know, super recovered for how many months because you're just caring for the sing and then We asked but I oh, hey Well, I know you just had a baby and your body just did this incredible thing the past nine months But like now you need to look just like you did before and it's like that's not how it works Like if if we have surgery, how many months does it take for us to get back to, you know, Usual business great point. It's a lot. Yeah, great point The here's a big one that I would focus on with pregnant women who had a baby who also worked out because it's a different challenge Versus someone who didn't work out, right? The challenge was that they Didn't understand even if everything else felt kind of strong and you know, your muscles have muscle memory And they're quite resilient Especially if you went into the pregnancy and you worked out during the pregnancy, of course appropriately But here's one thing that a lot of them didn't realize your core stability is different And it has to be right everything stretches and grows and you essentially lose connection So then they go back to working out and they're like I could do barbell squats I used to squat with 135 so I think 105 is fine They'd go to do squats and everything feels okay And then the next day like why am I hurting in my back? Maybe like listen your core has completely changed. We need to focus on reconnecting before you Well in pelvic floor. Oh my gosh, you know, it's like the the pregnancy The entire pregnancy thing is there's so many different variables on like I said everybody's so different, but it's like It being pregnant is expensive Like you're going to doctor visits all the time But then there's all these extra special steps where it's like you really like one of the best investments You can make would be to be working with a pelvic floor specialist Like especially if you talk like the crossfit community, that's super common to talk to moms and they'll be like Oh, yeah, every time I do double unders or I go for a round like I pee myself a little and it's like That's a pelvic floor issue that we can fix and address But again, you're like there's not a manual like oh, hi, you just got pregnant do this, right? And so like god bless communities like um, lindsay matthew is a birth that she is absolutely incredible and puts out Such amazing content for you know the pregnant and postpartum community But again, you know, it's like if I if you talked to me three years ago It's the only reason why I know the importance of pelvic floor health And again, you know, like you were talking about with core stuff and whatever It's because I've worked with clients and I've like done the education around that But most people don't know you know, most people again, it's like you have this baby The doctor shows you up and you go on your way and you're like well six weeks I'm gonna go back to exercise and it's like Really, you know if you if you talk to a lot of experts in this space Most people are saying hey like the first couple months after you get birth like Be doing a lot of core exercises and really taking it slow and a lot of restorative exercise But yeah If you have somebody that was super active and they love exercise and they love doing it Well, yeah, like you want to get back to doing the thing you love and you want to get back to feeling Good in your skin, but again, you know, it's just like there's there's this rush to get to get back and to bounce back And the reality is, you know, how many people we give birth and then you're like, okay, three two one diet Like I need to lose this baby weight and it's like with clients if I was taking one I stepped away from one-on-one coaching years ago, but even you know in our paragon training community We encourage people it's like hey, you know, like If we think about you know for nine months your body expanded and accommodated for this baby You should probably be just chilling and laying low and just eating at maintenance You know if you're breastfeeding worrying about eating enough food to support breastfeeding But just letting your body recover and heal for at least nine to ten months And so it's like for me personally, I've always been you know, the long ways the shortcut kind of person And so for me, it's like I would rather see a mom just eating at maintenance You know supporting breastfeeding Returning to exercise when it feels good, you know really listening to her body But just giving back to herself and giving time to just recover Allow yourself to heal and I want to see that for you know one year one and a half years Because the thing is we have so many women in our community that they did that and then because they waited because they gave their body Time to recover they gave their hormones time to just you know Rebalance and get back to a good space and then when they diet It works and they're able to quickly, you know get to where they're trying to go But again, you know, it's like that We talk about getting from a to b and again, ultimately, it's it's your journey. It's your body It's you deciding how you want to get there and you're an adult and you get to choose You know what you're doing But again, if we could play the long game an option a is Maybe we don't diet for a year and a half and we're just eating at maintenance and worrying about feeling good And and just giving back to ourselves and then we're able to do, you know, say a three month diet It works. We don't have to go to insanely low calories. Maybe, you know, good point You know if maintenance calories, let's say we spent the past year and a half. We're at 24, 2500 calories Well, and we're able to diet as say 21 2200 calories We quickly lose that weight three months later and we're you know, we have this banging body We feel really great. We look really great checking all the boxes reversely option b we have somebody that They give birth and then maybe they have to go really really low calorie and maybe their milk supply isn't great Because they're still trying to breastfeed but they're still trying to do this thing Because they're really uncomfortable in their skin and I totally get that but it's just two totally different outcomes that again You know a little bit of patience is going to create such a better setup for the future Because again, you know, you're officially able to get there and more importantly How are you feeling along the way and again the breastfeeding thing is a very sensitive topic too But it's like well, ultimately like you have a little that's dependent on your milk supply So we just have to be cognizant of that too of like is that really an appropriate time to be Worrying about trying to change your body and and all of that and again, you know, there's no right or wrong answer We have to choose what's right for you know what we feel for ourselves But it's just two totally different scenarios. So how do you find what's right for you? I think the I think the psychological hurdle is More challenging than at least what I thought until I saw Katrina go through it, right? So all of us or most of us I should say Got into exercise and fitness because of our, you know, self-image body image Most of insecurities is what drove most of us to the gym So you got to imagine that many many of these ladies that get pregnant Still have that and imagine all of a sudden adding 30 40 pounds to you and then your body feeling so different Looking so different it's storing body fat in different places And I remember Katrina going through this because Katrina's I've never seen her have body image issues She's never comment like that. She's a very confident woman And I remember constantly having to remind herself like hey, you just had a baby. It's okay, hun Like you're you're gonna get in great shape. Don't worry about it But let's listen to your body and how it feels right now. Don't rush anything There's no reason for us and in fact if you do that You're potentially going to set yourself back even further and who knows what else and your number one priority right now Is to feed my son and keep him healthy as possible, which means I want you as healthy as possible We'll deal with the the the self-image body image stuff later on But I actually I think that's part of why this is so challenging We're talking about a lot of the physical things that are that are challenging But I also think there's a major psychological thing that happens to a lot of women that see their body change so rapidly Well, and we I I think one thing that I love about our paragon training community the most because we are you know mostly women is that um My very good friend hillary that lives in austin. She was talking about this where it was like, hey, you know I I went through IVF and here I went through pregnancy and I did the hard thing And I spent a couple months breastfeeding and I'm now ready like to just get back to feeling good in my skin You're like I did the thing I did my part and I loved that and I loved hearing that because In the pregnancy world we have so much guilt and there's so much judgment And it's it's almost a damned if you do damned if you don't situation because People love passing on their opinion of oh, you should breastfeed more you should breastfeed less or you should do this That and whatever and so I think you know again just having the autonomy to Again choose your journey for yourself and what's right for you and your body But yeah, you know, it's like also giving that permission card of like How do you want to feel and what do you want to be working towards and and again the only person that matters? It's for you like you you brought this kiddo into the world. So you also Equal parts, you know need to do what's best for you. Yeah, lori, you know, it's uh, It definitely is a huge challenge and I do want to say this the people that I've worked with who say I had a baby or I had two kids my body was never the same afterwards Or the ones that rushed into it because they went into it so fast not the pregnancy I'm talking about the post pregnancy working out and they caused the issues that they didn't solve later That later become harder to solve you talk about pelvic floor issues If you don't work on those things and you strengthen everything around it It could be very hard to even diagnose and you start to why do I keep hurting? Why does my hip keep hurting or why do I have these issues? You know, I'm working out all the time I'm very fit Then you got to go to specialist and oh lo and behold There's some pelvic floor issues that happened 10 years ago when you had your kid Now you did mention calories. You said 2,500 2,400 calories One more point another point that you made that we want to cover was this like 1200 calorie Number like you need 1200 calories to lose weight. I think I think I know the origin of it I'd love to hear your opinion in my opinion. I think the origin of 1200 calories is This is what we were told is the minimum I remember when I first got my first certifications for nutrition They said never have anybody go lower than 1200 calories for whatever reason So, of course, that's where people would set their clients. Let's start at 1200 calories. That's the least It's a weird industry thing and you know, I don't Transparenly know where it started But it's like you see that all the time like if I walk in to say, you know Like a meal prep company or something and I buy some ready-made meals It'll be like, oh, here's 1200 calories for women and here's 1600 calories for men and you're like wait, what? Like what? So, um, I think that you know, if if I could go back in time and and I just wish there was more education about how much food We all actually need to eat to sustain and do the thing because again, you know, it's like I think In the community of fitness, it's so easy to also hear information about general population versus, you know Well, yeah, if you sit at a desk all day and we don't work out Your calorie needs are going to be very different than someone who's Lifting and you know doing the thing and and totally right muscle makes a big difference But yeah, and so there's so many factors that go into how much you need to eat the same thing You know, it's like when I you know was a teenager and I found myself You know, I didn't know that I had undiagnosed thyroid issues But I was you know, super athletic super active and I suddenly struggling with my weight for the first time It's like same thing. I I went to Pinterest I went to yo and pick up a cosmopolitan magazine and everything you read was 1200 calories 1500 calories And it's like present day, you know fast forward. Um, I'm five three I probably I'd say right now I'm lifting for about 60 to 90 minutes four times a week Pretty much following just a progressive overload Strength and conditioning program doing tons of bodybuilding, but it's like at the end of the day I lift for 60 and 90 minutes four times a week and it's like for me I need 23 2400 calories and you're tiny by the way Yeah, like I'm not tall. No, no, no, you're a tiny little thing and you're eating 23 2400 calories You're lean your body fat's got to be in what the high teens at the most I would guess Transparenly, I don't know but you're very you're very lean obviously But you have a lot of muscle you remind me I used to tell a story on the I told the story so many times On the podcast of how I had this female trainer that I would always use to sell training to new members because New members would you know, especially women they come in and they you know, I don't want to do the weights I don't want to get big I don't want to get bulky I don't want to and then I would page this female trainer who looked very much like you right She was small petite whatever super yeah, and I'd be like exactly and I'd be like can you guess her body weight? If you can guess within 15 pounds, I'll give you a free membership for whatever and they'd be like Oh, she's like 100 pounds Like all right get on the scale, you know, she's 130 pounds and I'd say she looks tiny because she's lean But she's got muscle and then I'd be like tell her what you eat and then she'd be like Oh for breakfast, I had four eggs two slices of bacon two pieces And she'd go through this like huge laundry list of food and be like she can eat that much because she's got muscle That burns the calories Just think just think about the the message you're sending your body to go the other direction with 1200 cars And by the way, too What type of person is the type of person as far as that goes for that extreme calorie restriction Is also normally the same person who goes for extreme exercise, too So if you it's usually both it is that's what I'm saying So that's the same personality that's willing to do the extreme dieting is also normally the same personality That will do the extreme training too So then not only do they go 1200 calories Then they sign up for one of those orange theory f45 crossfit classes Five seven days a week on top of that and think about what you're telling the body to adapt to and setting yourself up for Even if you did achieve your goal Even if you got to the body image the image that you wanted Imagine how miserable you are training five to seven days a week and only eating 1200 calories for the rest of your life Just feeding the crap out of yourself Forever, it's and you know what's here's the thing in modern societies. You want a fast metabolism This wasn't true 10,000 years ago If I could survive on 1200 calories 10,000 years ago I did better than the guy who had to eat 3000 calories Today it's the reverse if I could get my metabolism to burn more calories Then I'm gonna fare better with the food because it's so we're surrounded by so much food It tastes good. I'm not very active. So having a lot of muscle helps burn all those calories So a fast metabolism is a benefit nowadays You're able to go on dates. You're able to travel and not be stressed out You can just enjoy food and enjoy, you know, so many experiences versus like the quality of life If you're trying to only eat 1200 calories or 1500 calories like that's tough. That's like one burrito One chipotle one chipotle. Yeah, but so it's like if I could go back in time I wish that I could tell my younger self like, you know, there's just so There's this assumption and there's this messaging of like I always grew up being like, oh, well, you're a really tiny individual So you just don't get much food and that's how it is And the reality of the situation is like that's like I love that I was actually born a very tiny person Because again, you know, it's like most clients that I'm talking to are most paragraph members that I'm talking to Are people on social media? You're likely taller than me. So if I'm here eating, you know Well above 2000 calories, you know, it's not uncommon to have female athletes that are Five six five eight, you know, five ten and it's like maintenance calories 2800 3000 calories And and yeah, you know, again, if we talk on social media, you see oh full day of eating 1600 calories And you're like sick dude like what like So I think breakfast. Yeah, so it's like if I don't like making generalized statements for the nutrition and fitness industry because there's so many things that go into this But you know, if if we're looking at active menstruating individuals, I would say that for most women You are going to see you likely need a minimum of 1800 2100 Maybe, you know, again The more active we are and the more muscle we have the longer we've been training kind of the floodgates open up for More leeway and more food. How hard has it been for you to promote like with women to to live in a surplus? So I had somebody um, not about surplus, but I had somebody the other day they messaged and they were like My husband doesn't believe that you eat as many calories as you say you did and it was the same thing It was like I opened my phone. I'm just like okay And so I like stopped for a second and so I was like, okay So I like open up chronometer is my favorite like food tracking app And so I made like a video screenshot like went back into a week ago and it's like my present day tracking I'm not really like trying to achieve a particular goal right now It's like I'm I'm literally just lifting we're in a strength cycle like I want to yeah Like I want to deadlift like 2.7 times body weight, which will be super out and I will for sure rip that Wow, that's that's pretty damn good You wait it's coming But you know, it's like at the end of the day I track my food every day and I might have some days That's you know, 2200 calories You know, maybe I did a lot of volume one day So I might have 200 500 calories, but it's like I'm consistently like I said, you know Well, I'd say that a good solid range probably 23 2500 calories I'm always aiming to hit, you know, right around body weight and protein And I don't stress too much about the carbs and fats. You know, if I'm super active I'm going to have a day with more carbs and then reversely if I'm like Ooh, I said at my computer all day long like might have a little bit more fat a little bit less carbs Exactly how we tell people Just because activity wasn't quite there that day and so it's created, you know, it's like I said I don't stress about food I don't have a lot of the disordered eating habits that I had so many years ago because again, you know, it's just like This is a part of me. This is what I do. If I don't track my food. I actually don't eat So it's like I'm always super stressed out. I'm always super busy with work And so I track my food to make sure I'm eating enough food because otherwise what happens is, you know If I if I go without tracking for a few days, they'll be like damn I feel really Terrible in the gym today or like strength just not there and that's like I'll like track my food and be like Oh, well you ate 15 under calories today like get it in sister. So it's like for me, you know, I know that so many people find Backer tracking, you know, super obsessive or super stressful That's like been doing it over a decade and it's it's just something that I do just like doing my laundry or going to the gym You know, it's just part of my life But for me again, it's I love doing it because if I don't I feel like garden you've developed a good relationship with it You know, you've mentioned a lot of You know people who menstruate or you know having your period and the changes that that can do to your body in the sense of How you might react to food and you know diet and exercise One of the other points that you put up here was that women are told that their period is not important Or that you don't need to have one like it's not a big deal like oh your period is all over the place We'll control it with this hormone or it's not that important like why is this not a good message? Yeah, so ultimately Our menstrual cycle is one of the best underlying indicators of our health And so we don't get a lot of feedback, you know about that from our body, right? But you know for individuals that menstruate, you know, it's like we should have a menstrual cycle It should probably happen every 27 28 days, you know, it should be relatively symptomless But yeah, you know the messaging that I grew up with and I really didn't learn about women's health and hormones And all that stuff until literally I was 28 years old And you know, I was struggling with a lot of just symptoms and and stuff and so I started reading The two a couple of my favorite books is Laura Brighton's period repair manual Dr. Jolene Brighton who y'all have had on a couple times. She's incredible. She wrote the book Beyond the Pill Laura Brighton has since gone on she basically wrote a book for individuals going into perimenopause and menopause And so that's called the hormone repair manual, but it's like it wasn't until I read these books at 28 years old, you know that I started to understand Oh, it's really important to have a menstrual cycle. Well, but you know, it's like There's so much messaging out there where it's like, it's totally normal to have menstrual cycles that you know You have really bad PMS and it's totally normal to have cramps and it might be totally normal to like miss school Or stay home from work because you know, you're on the rag or whatever it is And it's like the reality of the situation is like those are all symptoms that we might be dealing with hormone imbalances And whether you know whether what what those levels look like with your estrogen your progesterone You know totally different depends, but it's like when when we understand that's a really good radar on our health Well, maybe we're an individual that you know, we love training and we're we're super into fitness and we're super into nutrition And our menstrual cycles goes missing and we just go. Oh, well, that's kind of cool Like I really want to bleed every month. Anyway, like this makes life so much easier Like that should be you know, it's like we can use our menstrual cycle as feedback from the body of Oh, maybe my body's not picking up The things that i'm putting down and whether that's you know Our frequency with drinking things like alcohol Maybe that's again, you know the way that we are exercising. Are we doing Are you know, are we training five to six days a week doing super strenuous super high intensity exercise or reverse? You know, are we working out three to four times a week and you know putting in strength and conditioning or whatever Is you know, it's like our body is always listen, you know, it's like our body's always trying to communicate to us But as a society we've gotten really bad at being able to pick up the phone and listen And so so much of coaching individuals is getting people to reconnect with their body and and pay attention to again Well, you know, so many people use the scale as an index of their success and and stuff like that But it's like When we're coaching people we're getting them to look at well, what are your energy levels like? What's your sex drive like, you know, how are we sleeping at night? Are you waking up multiple times a night or reversely, you know, do you sleep through the night? You know, how are you feeling in the gym? Are you regularly hitting prs? Are you seeing, you know changes in your muscle and body composition? You know, if you're trying to diet, is it is it going successfully? You know, it's like when we start getting people to pay attention and kind of Kind of step out of their body and start analyzing those things and the things that really matter versus just, you know Hyper hyper focusing on the scale. That's where the money's at because again, you know, it's like if we're feeling really really good That's sustainable and that's what we're looking for, right? Lori, you're a good person to ask this you said something that's really interesting to me because I remember getting a lot of clients that would actually say things like, oh, I just I get really bad periods Like so I had to stay home from work or my cramps are miserable. I just have extremely heavy bleeding Are there um, do you or have you seen like common offenders or they're common? Like when someone says that to you are there's like a okay I'm going to ask this or look for this or look for this or they're common things Sure. Well, and I mean I was one of those people So it's like for me. Um, I was the kid that in high school. I had really really bad cystic acne I had periods that were so painful so uncomfortable that I would miss school for your days on end and so My mom did what I think most individuals experiences like you go to your obgyn They write you a prescription for the pill and it's like, oh dang Like my skin is suddenly clear and glowing and oh, you know, like maybe either, you know I don't have a menstrual cycle anymore or you know, everything gets better and so It's it's a delicate balance of like understanding when we start doing things like taking oral contraceptives How that might affect us in other ways But it's like if somebody's dealing with all those symptoms kind of like you mentioned, you know, it's like I was a little upset that there wasn't more discussion on hey Well, actually if you made changes to the way that you're eating and you made changes to the way that you're training Which, you know, I I've always been athlete. I was a competitive gymnast You know dig competitive track, you know in college It was like I ran marathons and then got into CrossFit and you know present day Just kind of love bodybuilding and strength and conditioning But it's like I was always doing the most on everything. So it was like if you talked to me in high school Well, everything I was eating was typical high school kid. Like it was super highly processed foods You know going out to eat at mcdonald's um, you know caffeine and just tons of like sugar and Everything was just stress, right? So it was like I wasn't eating enough food The foods that I were eating were probably super inflammatory and not great for my body Um, I now you know present day I know that I'm gluten and dairy-free to support my autoimmune condition But it's like for sure as a high school kid. I was crushing, you know Brad and pizza and cheese and all the all the things that now present day I'd be like on my death bed if I tried to you know, even have a couple bites of that Um, but you know, it's like present day. I have really relatively symptomless menstrual cycles, you know, it's like if I didn't track my cycle I you know, it's like it you know that day would happen. I'm like, oh start my menstrual cycle day But you know for most people, you know, it's like the severe mood swings It's you know, it's everything from feeling, you know, super crummy leading up to your workouts to some people feel really terrible during their menstrual cycle as well And just don't have that strength don't have that power output. Um, and so it's like If you know again, we talk about a how we how are we getting from a to b and so Would you rather take a prescription and and temporarily relieve those symptoms because the reality of the situations If you got off the pill, if you got off the iud, whatever it is Well, all those symptoms are probably going to come back Um, but reversely if we could just start Eating, you know, a little bit healthier if we could start going to bed at night If we could change the way that we're exercising you again Are we doing super crazy workouts that are, you know, are we spending hours and hours in the gym? Are we doing the most intense exercise or reversely? It's like, well Could we achieve the same outcome and train a little bit smarter a little more sustainable? Um, you again, it's like we get back to things like alcohol the things that you're coming into contact with Maybe and your beauty products and the sunscreens you use and and stuff like that, right So it's like there's all these factors digestion is another really big one where it's like if we have underlying gut issues That's absolutely going to play into your thyroid health and your menstrual health and and all that stuff, right? So it's like if you could Reversely lean into a little bit healthier lifestyle and not have to take a prescription And then suddenly have symptomless menstrual cycles. I think like most people would be down for that cause, you know, it's funny I used to have uh, uh, someone who did a hormone testing and when I used to have my studio And she was really good very holistic and she said, you know, it's interesting having a period Is actually from a health standpoint a gift because every month You have this really clear signal That you're either doing stuff some stuff, right or some stuff wrong Which is pretty interesting and then one more thing I want to comment on you're talking about using a prescription to get rid of symptoms Yes, it can and and sometimes does but also it doesn't handle the root cause, right? So you can if you do all the stuff that gives you a better period and then on top of it you also Take the pill you're going to be better off than if you just took the pill Now the next one that you listed is one that we talk about all the time And I love I would love to hear your perspective on it is The message that you have to do lots of cardio To lose weight or get lean, uh, or you have to do lots of cardio to get the body you want So why is this a bad message that often gets sold? So this message comes from love like if you met me like in my early 20s and like college lawyer, like I was cardio queen Like it's like we did it same thing. You know like ran ran marathons and I still present day. I love running. Um It's one modality that I have super long legs Like I am gazelle like I can still I don't even like I said, I don't even run that often but Uh, I just moved back to dallas and there's a 5k on like the katie trail and I was like I kind of wanted I haven't emptied the tank in a while Like I should just show up and go like smokes and people like this would be fun, right? Um, but the thing with cardio is that's like if you enjoy it Do it but understand that like when we're looking at health benefits and stuff like that You know, it's like if we are getting activity outside of the gym and we're getting 7,000 8,000 steps a day That covers us on the basis of cardiovascular benefits and just overall, you know, health and well-being Um, but it's like you don't have to do cardio to look good You know, if you're trying to achieve a caloric deficit You how however you achieve that caloric deficit you could do that purely via food You could do that partially, you know via food and the way you're exercising But it's like we see so much messaging we're able to be like doing my steady state cardio for 60 minutes On the stairs supper. It's like well, yeah, like yeah Yes, you you can do that again You can create your caloric deficit via cardio, but reversely again, you know, it's like when we're talking about You get to choose your own adventure And the best way to achieve your goals is probably to enjoy yourself while you're doing it Well, if you hate cardio understand that you don't have to do cardio to achieve a good body composition Right like ultimately if we're talking about an athletic looking body if we're trying to achieve that Well, that's probably a body that has a lot of muscle and you know a leaner body fat percentage Well, you're gonna achieve that likely via lifting heavy on a progressive overload program Or you're gonna achieve that that body type through doing, you know Periods of caloric restriction and then going back to maintenance and then caloric surplus to To gain muscle and put muscle back on your frame, right? And so we're kind of whittling our body down But it's like again, if you enjoy cardio by all means do it But I just feel and again, I don't know if it's just social media But I'm just like if I could never hear the word cardio again, like it would be too soon Because people ask that all the time will it be like whoa Well, you you lift really heavy. You look great. You're super shredded like how much cardio do you do? And I'm I'm like, I don't do any like every once a while I might like go burn it down around on the weekend, right? But and people are like wait What and again, it's like there and I don't know if it's more just from like the body building world That it's just like they're obsessed with cardio. But it's like Again, how do we get from a to b the most efficient? It's like if somebody wanted to Get a really banging body composition if they enjoyed cardio, I would incorporate as part of their plan But it's like you don't have to do it You not only not have to do it, but it's actually not the best strategy If you if you want to maintain muscle because you're sending the opposite signal by running like crazy So I think I think that's part of the problem too is that The studies that we used to do on people when When it comes to like weight loss is all around law, law, thermodynamics calories in versus calories out So in in an hour period of time What type of exercise burns the most calories and so I think that's where it comes from I think it's just been perpetuated because of that. It's like, oh man I could get on the stair master for one hour really hard and maybe burn 700 calories I don't could do that during doing weights, but again, it's not the full picture of what's going on And it's not going to speed up your metabolism like lifting weights will so if you're you're like the average person Who's only let's be honest the average person is going to work out like three days a week They're not going to do four or five six days a week and you're only going to pick one form of exercise Do the one that speeds up your metabolism It's just going to give you the most bang for your buck now speaking of calories burned The next one that you put up was people talking about paying attention to the calories burned on their like devices and stuff So why is this an issue? Why is this a big problem like why can't what's what's the big deal with looking at my watch? I'm like, oh, I'm burning so many cool devices. Yeah Man like and I think it's just such a disservice You know, it's like I don't want to throw a company under the bus But there's one in specific that they make a wearable ring And so I have a Garmin which like that's what Garmin does is like tracks your steps and super accurate And so I was kind of messing around with this wearable ring that a ton of my friends Like, oh, I love this thing because it's super great for tracking your sleep and gathering data around that And so I'm looking at it and it'd be like however many steps my Garmin would say I would get in a day The ring would be like 2000 to 3000 higher every single time. So it was like that's a selling point, isn't it? Yeah, so it's like cardio machine Yeah, it was like if my Garmin said like, oh, you got, you know, 8,000 steps Like this little ring would be like 11,000 12,000 steps and be like fake news Oh my god But so, you know, so same thing. It's like we have so many wearable devices out there and people love being like Oh In my group exercise class, I burned 656 calories and it's like y'all like our body Is so complex and we can't be dumbed down to a wearable And if some company had figured it out, we wouldn't have a growing obesity problem Like I think I actually looked yesterday just because I was curious and like They're now saying, you know, right around 70% of the population in the United States is either overweight or obese So it's like well If you're apple watch if you're Garmin if you're woop band like whatever it is If they had cracked the code and figured it out like they I mean they a they'd be making a hell of money right now But it's like we we're still not there yet. Maybe we will be no I tell you what if you took a wearable that tracked calories and steps and all stuff and you put it on The Hodza tribe of northern Tanzania I talk about a study that was done on them that and there's other studies have been done other modern hunter gatherers But scientists went down study this modern hunter gatherer tribe. So they literally move all the time. They hunt They don't have electronics. They live in huts And they found at the end that they burned about the same amount of calories as the average western couch potato potato Why? Because your body learns to adapt because otherwise you would die in the wilderness You're not going to get six or seven 1,000 calories worth of food But if you put these devices on them, I guarantee you would say five or six thousand calories and it would be totally wrong They're not burning five or six thousand calories and the scientists actually used very sophisticated Metabolism testing to figure that out. So I'm a hundred percent with you on that It's not accurate often what do those numbers mean right because it's like well Okay, let's say even if you did burn 600 calories in your workout like again It's like I feel like that's such a 90s way to like approach our nutrition fitness and health and be like Oh on on the elliptical today. I burned x number of calories. Um today I ate this many calories So I just need to subtract and it's like again like it's just not It'd be nice to call that math really lined up perfectly The metabolism is just so much more complex than that. It's like ever moving and changing So for you to think that you could follow this little tool that tells you the cow And if that even mattered that much, you know south at the other day I think it's like one It's actually maybe one of the worst Ways for people to to track or measure whether they're doing a good job in their fitness or not There's just it's so much more complex and what they find is that when when the average person Sees this for they did this one study where they listed calorie There was this like city-wide mandate all restaurants have to list. I just make some more if just make some eat more Anyway, they actually tracked it and people ate more because instead of saying wow if I eat the burger It's 300 calories more. I'm gonna eat the salad. They said wow the burgers only 300 more calories Yeah, I burn 600 calories in my class so I can have two glasses of wine That's really what happens. So it can definitely backfired another thing that you said now you mentioned earlier You have a goal of deadlifting. I was you say two and a half times your body weight or so I have dead lifted two and a half times was our last strength cycle And so this time we're going 2.75 2.75. Okay So the next one you listed here is that women will still believe often is that lifting heavy Will make them look bulky or manly looking This is why is this totally false and why is this uh damaging? I again, I'll say it's like when I was making this list a lot of them were like I was thinking back in time to like either things that I fully believed or things that you know You know things I see you know coming up with our members and clients and stuff like that So it's like if you met me in 2012 When I first started strength and conditioning I remember walking into a gym and the owner was absolutely jacked like she used to do you know physique shows and stuff like that and like Just such a badass athlete like she was actually like a regional CrossFit athlete Competed multiple times But so I remember you know it was like here I was I was at the depths of my eating disorder I was lettering 92 pounds when I found you know the barbell and it say Completely changed my life. But so you know I I stroll into this gym And I remember thinking you know wow this workout was so fun Like I can't wait to keep lifting weights like this is this is so cool But mutually I remember looking at this individual and in my head thinking Ooh, but I just don't want to get you know big like that and like now I'm like Why I wish I could get You know how hard that is Like my best friend Alex I talk about this all the time where we're like man Like we've been training a decade and like we're still not huge like how do we get bigger? Right? Like how do we get more jacked? Like it's just you know, reaching my genetic potential fuck. Um, but it's like We're not genetically made Like women don't like we are and I do want to add I do want to add you've been working out Consistently for years you lift weights like a bodybuilder You also probably have exceptional genetics considering you're a high level competitor in sports, which means you worked hard But also have really good genetics the average person could lift weights all they want And what they'll probably accomplish after years of doing so is a sculpted You know toned or whatever body. It's like you don't lift heavy enough to get big That's really the half They're saying that as they're lifting like 60 pound dead left over there, you know We got a ways to go before you get that bulky That's you know, that's always like our talking points in our group and again, you know, it's like the population We have like my ideal like best day in life would be that You know somebody joins our programs and they've never lifted weight in their life Like that would be to show them the magic. Yeah, like let's let's go right But it's like, you know, so many people will be like, oh like i'm really scared to get big or I'm really scared to get bulky and it's like y'all like i'm dead It's like if i'm hip thrusting god bless anybody that's in lifetime because all the 45 pound plates are gone Like i'm hip thrusting 400 425 like you ain't squatting today, right? And so it's like again, it's like here. I am five foot three, you know present day probably 120 pounds something like that and it's like i'm You know, I can deadlift 300 plus pounds. I can hip thrust 400 plus pounds like I'm lifting heavy and i'm still not big like how do I get bigger? No, I that myth cracks me up and what it does is it scares women from doing the most effective exercise Doing the one thing they need to do not to mention, okay It is so hard to get there and it's real easy to go the other direction So I would always tell my my female clients that would give me that listen We're gonna try and make you look like arnold and you just let me know when Wake up when you feel you're too closer and then go ahead take three days off and have a cheeseburger You'll be just fine. Yeah, you ain't gonna wake up tomorrow looking like oh my I knew it I told them not to have me squat 55 pounds now. I look like luffrino And that's like the word toned you it's like I hear that all the time where the there will be comments So it'd be like oh like how do I get toned like you and it's like y'all like the athletic physique that you are Describing again is a body composition that likely has more muscle than you have now And yes, it might have less body fat, but it's like so many people get caught up in the cycle of Oh, I just need to lose body fat like if I just lose body fat I'm gonna I'm gonna have this physique and it's like y'all like if you lose that body fat You're probably gonna look like a melted candle I do I do want to point out though because there is there is an exception Where you do get this and because you do somebody listening right now I know for sure that's like I don't care what they say I've done lifting before and it's made me look bulkier But many times they haven't addressed the inflammation gut issues They're eating they're not eating appropriate for what their goals are and then they go touch some weights and then they're Pant size or something Also though, right like we have to remember and this was this was on the list as well Is that you know when we're talking about fat and we're talking about muscle There are two different types of tissues So again, if we want to bring back up the fruits and apples and oranges like Fat is the apple, you know oranges might be our muscle And so it's like we can't turn one into the other week. We can't do that. That doesn't exist. That's called alchemy You have to be really good doing some wizard stuff, right? And so that was something most people don't realize because people say like oh, well like I'm really overweight Um, you know, I just want to I want to turn all this this fat into muscle And it's like well, there are two different types of tissues and so back to Adam You know your points like well, yeah, if you go from not lifting weights and you start lifting heavy You are going to start building muscle But that doesn't necessarily address the body fat issue I want to assign the word issue, but it doesn't address the body fat component that we have in that situation So it's for that person a again comes back to education Hey, you know right now you actually might see, you know, the scale go up because again We're we're adding muscle to your frame your your body is doing what it's supposed to do. This is good Um, you know out of future date, we do Likely want to go through a caloric deficit if you're wanting to lose some of that body fat But again, so many people Get bought into lifting and they're like, okay, and it's cool until again You know, you're like, well my clothes don't fit everything's starting to get really tight The scale is going up and so it's like the education of again. Well the long game That's something that will have to be addressed if that's important to you But nobody has that conversation. So again, it's like there's still not the education Understanding around a lot of not to mention fat takes up more space per pound Than muscle does and I do want to make this comment The percentage of women that can build muscle to an extreme extent is about as rare as the percentage of people that are seven Feet tall So if you think about everyday life like how many times have you run into someone that's over seven feet tall? Like never you never see that That's how rare it is to have a woman that and if you're this woman, you know, like you don't even lift weights and you look like Justin Because you have those those kinds of genetics now that brings us to the next one, which is the low reps versus high reps I go low reps bulks high reps tones or sculpts like what's the problem with this particular message? I feel like this is again like where the 90s like still leaks in the present day and you're just like Um, and I think again this whole like oh I should only Do low weights and I should do high reps like that's still coming from kind of that that fat phobic place of I don't want to be in a bigger body or I don't want to be bulky or toned um, and so I think it's just so It's so tough because again kind of like we were talking about earlier in the show Typically for a lot of male athletes, you know, especially if you were playing football You were playing baseball or any source for it You were likely doing strength and conditioning and you were likely in the weight room And so you already had some exposure to you know, hopefully what a good training program might look like But I think a lot of women likely resonate with me where it was like Oh, I didn't start lifting weights until it was 22 or 23 and like I remember being in the gym and being like I don't know what i'm doing. I'm on the I'm on the machines. I'm doing the thing and like, you know And and so it's just kind of this bad information thing And so I think like one of the most powerful things that someone can do is just follow a good training plan And follow one that promotes being evidence-based, you know, like avoid following workouts from You know, your your favorite person on social media or Maybe you're getting, you know, random workouts off of youtube or like I know when I used to do crossfits like there were there was like a couple different big companies out there And it was like Invictus and Misfits and Comptrain and so it was like you would like cherry pick and so it'd be like On Monday we're gonna do Misfits and then on Tuesday we're gonna do Comptrain and not realizing that Programming is connected in long term. Right. And so it's like that was a really Hard learning curve and I didn't understand like why I wasn't getting the results I was seeking and and you just see, you know, it's like this isn't uncommon for somebody to You know, maybe on Monday they go to spin class and then on Tuesday they go to boxing and then on Wednesday They go to, you know, an f45 class and it's like, well, it's important that we enjoy the way we work out But again, we have to understand if the way that we are exercising You know, is are the inputs matching up with the output or the outcome that we're trying to achieve? And so it's like being very clear on where we're trying to go and how to most efficiently get from a to b But it's like if we're talking about strength training or we're talking about like, hey, I want to build a really strong athletic looking physique It's like, well, you need to find a progressive overload program So it's going to be a program that has weekly repeating movements So maybe you know every Monday you're back squatting and so the goal over the course of that, you know 12 or 15 week training cycle is well We want to increase difficulty every single week and so if I open the cycle and I'm squatting say 200 pounds that first week Well, hopefully that second week I squat 205 and then I squat 210 and I squat 215 So that again, you know by the end of the cycle cool I can hit pr as we see strength again, you know, we're we're repeatedly Performing a movement so we can get better at it. We can build muscle our body gets stronger And so for so many people will be like, oh, well, I get bored of workouts really quick So I want random training or or this and that or like I need to confuse my muscles Like that's another like I don't even know where that came from. But like please I hope it burns a fiery death, right? But like the honest reality is like the more boring your program the likely it probably is because we can't get better at something We're not practice. I love that point because that was the so we first started, right? Uh, the number one Complaint, right that we would get our feedback negative maps on a ball from maps on a ball because I know what all these are all This is just the basic squad. I know these exercises That's why it's there. Just get back to us in two. I also think part of this problem though, too Uh, and why this one won't die Is uh, so you have these, uh famous, you know, instagram girls that got famous from a television show or their They don't they're not even a real fitness professional and maybe but maybe they put fitness coach in their profile or whatever But they really don't know shit about exercise and training, but they're beautiful They got a the beautiful body that a lot of people like and aspire to to have and they're doing all these Circuit training glute kicked, you know, here's a brand new exercise Band exercise was you know, 40 this 30 that and just heal it So I think and you know, we talk about they got millions of followers for whatever reason They were famous on a reality show or whatever like that But I think there's a lot of that on on social media You got someone like us who've got, you know 90 to 100,000 followers and then you we're competing against This famous girl who's got four million followers that everybody knows and she's gorgeous and and she's giving this advice So I think that's part of the reason why this one doesn't die It's 100 part of it though because the thing is it's like, you know With me coming from a nutrition background and having you know a bachelor's in food nutrition dietetics It's like, uh, you know, it's like I helped manage numerous crossfit gyms over the years Worked for crossfit seminar staff and you know, I've been coaching now for over 15 years, which is insane to me Um, but it's just like I've never been passionate about the programming side of stuff And I was never passionate about like the one-on-one PT side of stuff Like I loved group coaching but miss me on programming miss me on Just understanding how to do all of that And so when we founded Paragon training like my business partner Brian He's been training for 20 plus years like and he's so Nerdy and he loves it. We're such a good Balance because I'm super nerdy about nutrition. I never get tired of it. But he's the same way where it's like spare time He's listening to podcasts. He's digging into research pub med You know all this stuff and so it's it's so crazy because again for so many years I was following various workouts and various programming and and crossfit and this and that whatever But it's like my best friend Alex and I we both have been training for a little over a decade now Which is a reasonable time. You know, it's like once you've been training for a while You're not going to see PRs and strength games like when you know the first couple years like every time I step in the gym You know a PR PR PR, right? But it's always so fun and I love this where it's like Here I am, you know training 10 plus years and like I said, you know, it's like Our last strength cycle. I had a 25 pound lifetime PR on my deadlift And it's because Brian's programming is so good, right? And so even you know, we we just started a strength cycle again And so I'm like looking at the 12 weeks and I'm like, okay If I want a deadlift 315 that means, you know, this is what I do in the back of his mouth I'm like how to engineer it But it's like, I know that I'm going to hit it because our programming works And so here we have these high training ages and we're still regularly seeing, you know You know changes in strength and changes in our lifts and that's how it should be, right? Like it's it's actually not super normal to be hitting these plateaus Like certainly if we're talking about like a win Olympic weightlifting Yeah, if you're lifting at a high level and you're already Squeezing out 98% right like you you might grind for like three years to get that next, you know Two and a half pound jump or whatever, but it's like when we're talking about our general population Well, you're gonna notice, you know, it's like our lack strength cycle We literally had members and it wasn't just like one or two It was literally hundreds of our members where it was like wow 12 weeks later and I hit a 20 pound 50 pound 100 pound PR Like the number of women that we had hitting their first 300 pound deadlift and you're just like Yeah But again, you know, it's just the difference of well, these are all individuals that they came from the Hey, well, I was doing never had something legitimately programmed like years of just crossfit or years of marathon training or whatever So you get really intelligent programming that's prioritizing recovery and that you know, again We're just letting the body do its thing like holy smokes. It's it's a science Programming workout programming is definitely a science and here's the truth low reps High reps they all build muscle and it's just how you program them in your workout Determines whether they work one doesn't tone one doesn't bulk. They both build there's building and they're shrinking That's all muscles do The last point that you bring up that I think is very important is this myth that an effective workout is one that leaves you Dead like crawling on the floor. I'm sore for days Like if I don't survive this market workout Yeah, like if it doesn't beat me up, then it wasn't effective This is one of my favorite ones to hammer because I think we all fell for this Ourselves and it was the biggest game changing moment of my life for my own training When I realized that if I left to in the tank per set or if I left the workout feeling better than I went into it My body would totally progress and it would progress consistently Yeah, and and we were talking about this, you know off air before but it's like again You know, it's like in your 20s like that's fun Like you're like miss you know, like catch me at the gym for hours on end And you know, it's like it's fun to do those workouts. No doubt, you know, like still every single year My oldest brother actually got into crossfit a few years ago And so it's our family tradition that every year will do the famous Memorial workout mirf together and so we'll go do push-ups pull-ups You run the whole shebang and it's our little like family bomb thing We take her sweaty selfie after and it's just you know, it's awesome And same thing like it's so funny because I'm so far removed from working out in that way that I it's always like a good reminder of like Yep, go back to you know working out the way you work because it's like It's you know, when I switched to more bodybuilding and strength and conditioning style workouts The the biggest change that I immediately noticed was the difference in my mental clarity and and you know How I felt after workouts because it's like If I were to go do a crossfit workout at whatever point I left the gym I felt like a zombie, you know, it was like I couldn't you know My work day ended at whatever time I went to the gym Because I would leave myself, you know rolling on the floor Redlining max out and you know, it's like again, that's fun But we also again if we come back to this whole like well, what goals are we trying to achieve? And how how do we most efficiently get from a to b? It's like if we could work out in a different way and work out for less time Feel better and more quickly achieve those results Like would we want that because for most people absolutely totally and so it's like again You know just understand that inherently exercises stressor like that's the point That's how we achieve, you know those adaptations whether that's losing body fat gaining muscle getting stronger hitting prs Whatever it is like that's duh. That's that's it. But it's like well Maybe We we don't have to go super hard in workouts, you know, it's like with our programming specifically We encourage people to basically lift two to three reps from failure and and it's a hard learning curve Especially if you come from you know, like the crossfit style land where it's and I again I struggled with this for probably the first year and a half of struggling where I'd be like Yeah, my business partner Brian would text me and be like that You were struggling pretty hard on those squats. Like you were grinding or those were really long reps. Yeah It was great and he'd be like you should go less weight next weekend. Like what but but i'm trying to do the most And so it's like it's just again this understanding That we don't have to do the most and that you know Intelligent training is going to help us prioritize recovery and recovery is the secret sauce to adaptation So it's like that's when it happens That's when you adapt. It's funny as uh when I would manage gyms and have trainers working for me When I could finally convince trainers to train their clients this way because I'll tell them your clients should leave with more Energy and should leave your session feeling better Then they walked in with and it was a struggle because a lot of trainers like no I got to beat my clients up the ones who adopted it had clients that stayed with them longer and were more successful They were more they were worried of the opposite They thought if they didn't beat their clients up Yeah that they would lose clients and then we're going to be a successful people aren't going to lose weight No one's going to get in shape But when they actually incorporated this they became more successful because uh, you know newsflash people like to feel good So it's like strange. Yeah, it's like you want to feel good and it's much more You're going to be much more. I don't know it's much more sustainable To show up to your workouts and feel good afterwards It's less likely to be sustainable knowing that at the end of your workout You're going to be dead, especially when you're tired. Maybe you're not motivated like we all get sometimes like it just Or you injure yourself, which is another big one, dude And as you go older like that's the biggest thing right like we Justin and I was telling him about this yesterday where it's like the older I get That is my number one goal is like don't get injured and not just like in the gym But it's like, you know if I go snowboarding it's like don't fall Don't fuck this up. Don't get injured because it's like I just want to keep being able to come to the gym I want to be able to do the things I want to do it's like there's nothing worse Than being injured or dealing with this nagging knee pain or hamstring pain or whatever it is You know, it's like most people Have kids and a family that they want to keep up with or again You know, it's like the gym is just part of their life And so you don't you know, it's it's really hard to to have a positive attitude towards exercise if you dread it Right, so when we're talking about those personal trainers and stuff again where it's like Oh, yeah, I get to get punished and you know, I'm gonna not be able to squat the next day and I'm gonna be on my hands You know, it's like reversely Well, yeah, if they had a personal trainer where it was like if the experience is like Well, yeah, like I worked really hard at the gym But I felt great after and you know, I'm able to show up as my best You know, it's like it's so difficult to explain how you know air quotes How hard to go in a workout, right because don't get me wrong. It's like when I'm going for you know Hitting another PR in my deadlift this year It's like I'm gonna meet Jesus on a couple of my reps and I was like There's gonna be some grind and it'll be great, right? But it's like explaining to our members, you know, because people will be like, yeah So I did today's workout and uh, I think I want to add more stuff and you're like, oh Well, you you didn't go heavy enough Like if you chose the weights right and you were lifting two to three reps from failure like Your legs were shaking you you got out of breath and it was hard But again, there's a difference between challenging versus again, like red lining maxing out potentially injuring yourself And it's very hard. That's something that it takes time to develop that understanding But again, you know, it's like if you're if you're coming out on your training cycle too hot Well, you're gonna plateau in the later parts of you know of the cycle This is a science thing And we get we get so caught up in a it's a motivation and discipline thing all the time that it's just like Oh, the more I do the harder I push the more results I give but it's like no, there's there's a science actually to this I'll tell you what we often workout in the morning before we podcast Okay, if you went back 15 years or 20 years ago I would not be able to podcast after my workout because my workouts were so brutal and ridiculous that I would have literally sat here And it would have been the worst show of all time Now we work out before we podcast because we we finished the workout and we're jazzed We feel great and we actually do your biceps look huge Yeah, maybe and we do a better main reason I get the special camera We do we do better episodes as a result of it and that's how you should feel After you work out you should feel better not feel worse. I tell you it's always fun to have you on the show Always fun to be around you One of the reasons why we had you on is we want you guys to get more people to work under you and to hire You guys because there's not a lot of people in our space who are doing it, right? So we really appreciate what you're doing. We really really appreciate what you're doing So keep crushing and we hope you get more people from this episode. Always a good time. Definitely. Thanks y'all no problem