 So I'll start with just some brief sort of introduction from for when I know about each of you And we've had some conversations and then maybe you can fill in the missing gaps I met Rebecca a few months ago Rebecca Mills Rebecca is an inspiring entrepreneur and thought leader Who's doing some amazing work in thinking about the future of business organizations and and how the the structure of businesses can Morphin and become a force for good in the world someone who's really passionate about seeing a thriving and you know beautiful world and Someone who I think really calls out the best and the people that she's surrounded with I've known Simon a bit longer Simon has always impressed me with his knowledge of the New Zealand ecosystem both in terms of the business climate, but then also the interaction with government and the different opportunities that exist for investment in the country and Also, you know does a lot of work through his through his organization global talent grow global career link Which is you know a big part of connecting New Zealand and New Zealanders with global opportunities and You know connecting especially a lot of the young people with those experiences Which which becomes so important in developing the the experiences as as Dave and link mentioned We're jumping in some questions if there's other information you guys would on it just Anything else you wanna know that's pretty much sums it up. There's a very philosophical conversation today. Isn't that it is yeah We I was kind of originally maybe anticipating a little bit more Tactical, but I feel like the first conversation that we had covered so much ground about the the nuts and bolts of things I'd love to maybe zoom out a couple hundred feet and maybe take a look at a slightly bigger picture Let's just start with a question for you Rebecca I mean You and I have spoken a bit about You know your experiences and you've you've traveled all over the world and you've met with with you know Tons of business leaders through your work on the B team, which is this really exciting project that's being fostered by Richard Branson as well as many other influential global leaders Having gone through that experience having traveled seeing all the world met all these interesting people You're still really really passionate about New Zealand and the opportunities that exist here What is it about this place and what is it about this country that that speaks to you as being different and unique? In creating unique opportunities for change here Okay, so I'll just zoom out a little bit before Zoom out before answering that question just to give a bit of context as to Why I believe that New Zealand could be a great petri dish for the world And a living demonstration of what it means to build businesses that are for people planet profit rather than profit alone So I started life as an environmental scientist and liked all the geekery of biochemistry and Chemistry I graduated with my master's in science and quickly got interested in the future of energy in this country In particular geothermal energy. This is back in the late 90s where I started Looking at the infrastructure that we had here and Working at a regional council level for energy infrastructure after spending a number of years overseas seven years retraining and design I started doing master planning work and working with property developers And London and Southeast Was involved with sustainability and energy strategies for a number of different areas and I guess it was through that time After doing a lot of work with government that I realized the power of entrepreneurship and the power of business To create truly transformative change at speed and scale and pace That led me to work to I guess focus a Lot of my time and energy and passions into working with the most aspiring Entrepreneurs on the planet, and I wanted to start that at my home. I'd spent you know a number of years now living and primarily in Europe I came back to New Zealand in 2009 and 10 and started shoulder tapping people who were doing interesting things to see if we could start some shit Up here basically So I'm getting to answer the question one of those people was just Derek Hanley Who some of you might know he bought a ticket on Sir Richard Branson spaceship, and we started a conversation about the role of business and the role of business and creating a equitable beautiful Sustainable planet for all of us to enjoy so That those conversations I guess transpired into what is now been called the B team, which is a plan B for business So that business is incentivized to be a force for good so the last couple of years of my life I've been forming a Technical advisory group to create the agenda of what is plan B? What is the system that businesses currently sitting within? What are those pressure points that we need to? To locate so that that one small change in one thing can create big changes and everything So being a Kiwi And working very closely with Derek who became the CEO of the B team Richard And and Jochen were very passionate about Creating real-life working models for what we're talking about at quite a conceptual system level change So we've created this agenda of 10 things that we will want to be looking at globally and in the last Few months I've come back to New Zealand after spending a period of time going between New Zealand and New York We've finalized our global strategy of what can be this this plan B for business And I'm now looking at the opportunities in New Zealand to create New Zealand to be a test bed and a petri dish for the world and so What that looks like as far as you know I've spent a period of time looking at the greatest environmental challenges that we have here And this is the greatest social challenges that we have there and then through the lens of business How we how am I we solve those and ideally it's choosing ones that can be Scaled globally and and be used as a template for the world. So I think a lot of the Discussion that we've already had this morning Dave who's nice to see your face. We've skyped and things before but never actually met Yeah, and and and link Thinking about you know, there's a there's a number of reasons that we've already kind of touched on as far as scalability and and the diversity that we have in this country. What is exciting me is That there are other business leaders and entrepreneurs thought leaders Who have formed part of the b-team technical advisory who are wanting to be a brains trust For this country and so that we can help scale some of these solutions I Think with you know, the digital revolution this hot wire to the world concept where New Zealand can be the brains Lot of the strategy the R&D Can happen here and then that can be taken to the rest of the world is Is really exciting and where I'm now wanting to focus my time See in our conversations I know one of the the topics that you're really passionate about is is energy and Ecological sustainability, and I know that that's also a passion that you have Simon I'd love to hear a little bit about some of the Organizations startups initiatives that you've seen in looking at businesses who are sort of trying to implement these things trying to implement solutions that Fulfill not just a commercial purpose, but really people planet and profits not just profits What are what are maybe a couple of the startups that that you've seen? specifically in the sort of ecological space that that you were really excited about I think Typically if I were looking at the ecological space is a couple of the we've invested in which You know looking at processes that exist now like Coke and carbon and can actually take waste matter and turn that into into coke. So what is essentially Rather than having to dig it out of the ground You know taking taking what exists in the world, but obviously that's sort of a first step on a journey I don't I don't see that that the world's just suddenly going to change In one day, but there's a there's a sort of a roadmap of things that would happen whilst we look for more sustainable Processes and systems in the world, but in the meantime we go through incremental processes of not of not just Destroying what what nature is providing us but looking for alternatives to that until we get to alternative energy sources eventually so there's there's the Coalification of carbon and there's also There's been some some interesting startups in and around Water that we've been looking at Obviously waters are fairly precious resource in the world at the moment particularly if you look over to To countries which don't have a lot of water Desalination doesn't necessarily provide them with with all their water requirements yet if they want to grow Crops locally, which I know is quite a big passion of yours Agriculture is obviously fairly water intensive. How do they how do they look to recycle reuse that water? What are some of the some of the companies that are being developed here in New Zealand? Have some reasonably exciting ways of extracting water Which is wastewater byproducts through semi permeable membranes The irrigation companies there's a lot of work gets done in the irrigation in New Zealand We are we can be we are typically the leaders in that field However, you know the rest of the world is slowly is playing catch-up The issue is sometimes until these things become a big social issue for people There isn't necessarily the the impetus that sits behind it. So I think that a Lot of putting putting people in social issues first is actually being able to have those social issues clearly articulated By people so that it actually drives the behavior back And and rewarding those businesses that are responsible for doing it and until until the world starts Following that particular behavior Sometimes it is a little bit difficult, but there is a lot of exciting stuff Being done here in New Zealand that the issue gets back to how do you take it out? To the world again and make it and make it important. How do we how do we lobby governments? To to get recognition that these are important issues that are being dealt with so that some of it can come in from From behind with governments. How do we get people thinking about sustainability? As the issues in the future as well Great Yeah, I mean this this idea that You know Rebecca you were touching on of creating sort of a Testbed a canvas where these solutions can be implemented first You know one one idea that we talk a lot about is that you know We face all these different issues around energy and food security and inequality But these aren't you know problems without solutions You know and many times we already know the solutions, but you can't solve them piecemeal You know you can't address Agriculture without addressing fossil fuels because those two things are so interlinked in our modern world and So we say you know it's often more about integration than innovation, you know, it's about how do we bring these pieces together? You know not a particular question, but more just a prompt. I'm curious You know Are there things that we can do as a community? To promote greater cooperation Amongst people who are working on this so as to to focus on that integration and create these working models That not just you know work a little bit better But but maybe do radical improvements in the performance of organizations and processes With triple bottom line sort of accounting Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, and I think that's a really great question and also One of the kind of the biggest that the driving engines of why I think New Zealand can have competitive advantage By the very nature of that we're a small country and that you can walk You know the 15 minutes across Wellington and bump into 20 people so as far as Creating the practical infrastructure to enable that collaboration that's Something that I've been spending some time Thinking about who those people are who those organizations are In order to make that ecosystem, you know run how it needs to so I guess practically speaking What we've done is we've created a ecosystem map of What's happening in the biosphere in New Zealand and then above that what are some of the social issues and what are the existing finance repists organizations not for profits Incubators universities all aspects of that kind of ecosystem to think about what are the gaps and opportunities for them to collaborate together on the biggest issues to have maximum impact and so I've been narrowing that down and Are we really just starting to have some of those conversations now? Of what that looks like, but I think broadly speaking. It's a really exciting Opportunities in New Zealand around closed loop cycles with with energy water and waste but also future models of collaboration between the not-for-profit sector And the business sector With philanthropists wanting to work with the maximum impact Switching gears a little bit You know Simon one of the things that we've talked about is the various government programs Which have been created to incentivize and encourage Entrepreneurship and innovation and Zed Viff and the like Could you maybe just touch on those and speak to you know the advantages that that they might have for Entrepreneurship in New Zealand, but also entrepreneurs Who might be overseas who would be looking at New Zealand as a place where they could come and work on these types of of you know solutions so if you looked at all the different working components within it NZ Viff is obviously there and it has its venture fund and it's skiff fund It's the seed capital investment fund to invest alongside other angel Investors in New Zealand start-up investments and they will they will match funding and that's quite important because It typically means that in a lot of instances you only need to find half the funding of what you had originally planned from from angel investors and in fairness You know the angel community in New Zealand is just starting to Develop a little bit more. There's more people starting to get involved involved in it and That's good. So and The actual opportunity that comes with skiff and as angels find out about that It's a little bit gives a little bit more comfort for new angels Coming in to know that some of the you know, it's also being matched with some funding from the government they're also doing a particularly good job in terms of Looking at how New Zealand broadens out its its horizons. So they've had a recent deal with the Taiwanese Government where there's agreed to be two hundred million dollars Invested in Taiwanese and in New Zealand companies with the view to fostering stronger relations between Taiwan and New Zealand and to use the expertise that exists within Taiwan From the point of view of launching businesses into into China It's probably seen as a little bit more safe for New Zealand so there was a delegation of Taiwanese venture capitalists out late last year and We spoke to them about the opportunities in New Zealand and but the opportunities to take New Zealand businesses out Out to the world So they do a particularly good job in terms of in terms of co-matching and then also for through the VIF fund for Anyone who has funds that can qualify they will dollar for dollar match Into into investments with your right to buy them out. So It's it's a bit of a kickstart for for the New Zealand Early-stage investment community, which is which is quite important Whether there's then issues of follow-on capital That's one of the things which sort of the next part that comes with that Then you've got immigration Who are doing their bits which have been touched on a little bit already? But you know, they're doing their best at bringing what I hope is smart capital into the country and And also skills so identifying skill shortage areas working with them, I Mean I appreciate in the comments about New Zealand having a great ecosystem for developing Software engineers and engineers down in universities like like Canterbury as well We're also a country which tends to reduce an awful lot of accountants and lawyers and Hey, I'll hold my hand up as being primarily responsible for shipping a lot of them overseas, but Some of that If I look at that we talk about the fact that New Zealand's full of immigrants Some of that has been from the fact that a lot of immigrants have come to New Zealand and they've wanted to Ensure that their children go to university and get good jobs and being accountants and lawyers was their vision of what a good job was so so in this country somehow we also have to educate people that Educate the parents of children now That's that so that they can educate their children that what is important is Is not necessarily going and becoming a lawyer or an accountant, but it's about being a good person making the right choices And understanding that that failure is all right And and so we're actually we breed the next generation of people to come through in this country who can be those leaders as Well in the world I'm sorry go a bit off topic. So if we go back to if we go back to the The so immigration New Zealand are doing are doing a good job But some of the capital will come in just as capital Some of the things I'd like to see is maybe not the fact you can invest in New Zealand bonds And that's and you know, that's sort of considered okay Is is your way to buy into the country? But how does it actually go into some more productive? assets in New Zealand and Then you've got New Zealand trade and enterprise and I think in the past New Zealand trade and enterprise did a good job in respect of Helping young businesses start up. They've still they've got something called a beach heads program, which Allows a launching pad for for small businesses overseas And they used to have market development grants They've sort of carved those back quite a lot now And their focus has tended to become a little bit more on how they work with large corporates Rather than small businesses and that perhaps has been the one thing that's been a little bit disappointing for for me They didn't feel that they were getting value for money And then there was a lot of people who came out and so I said well I got a whole lot of government funding and then I sold my business for ten million dollars Best thing I ever did because basically they funded it for free and there became a lot of sort of bad press Around that and that was unfortunate because it kind of cut off those funds for the next wave of businesses that that wanted to come through so I'd like to see that reintroduced Again in New Zealand, but I mean there's a reasonably good ecosystem Around it. It's being able to navigate your way through it. It's not it's not easy to to find it and know about it and and and that's Well, I'd like to see a little bit more visibility Given to so that people actually understand how they can work with government and how government can can assist them a little bit more because it's spread in lots of different places and then you've got The Wellington, you know creative HQ you've got lots of little sort of Dollops of stuff, which is either local government or government funded Which you know you kind of need a roadmap to get around it I mean, and I think pulling something together like that would be very very helpful because there are a lot of people who are willing to help Cool All right, so one more question for me, and then we'll open it up from the audience site one of the themes you know the that we've noticed is is you know big being a big fan of sort of open-source development and You know meeting a lot of sort of lifestyle farmers and people in New Zealand notice that there's this incredible amount of Ingenuity in the culture, you know and people who are who are solving problems generally for themselves And I think this speaks to today's point of it's not people solving problems to Necessarily create good businesses out of it But rather just solving a problem because they're facing it themselves. And so they're using the number eight wire approach You know, but it strikes me that It's a shame for all that really smart hard work to not go into something that that carries forth and I'm really curious to hear I mean If you have any thoughts on on how to capture That creative potential the sort of cognitive surplus which is going into all these garden and garage projects And in using that to actually move those forward into creating something special That maybe could affect Change on a larger scale Especially with relation to sort of the primary industries categories where where New Zealand has such a unique expertise and in market position Well, I think one of the key aspects just from What I've seen around the world and and reflecting back on the opportunities for New Zealand and the context that you describe is when you marry up our skills of Abilities to be creative to utilize good design thinking to Have evidence-based solutions To work really rapidly together when you marry that up with our skills and Storytelling and filmmaking. I think there's for me it is a kind of evolving Opportunity that I see of of telling being the storytellers For the world and telling the stories of the work that people are already doing Within New Zealand and I know that many Kiwis know that we could do that better So it's not just I guess creating the new models for system change in which we can apply our thinking it's also The smaller stories of of innovation Particularly those where you have Many mutually beneficial outcomes to show just how when you put your creative mind in the the spirit Creativity but behind entrepreneurship and to solving some of these worlds biggest challenges whether you're working at a individual level family community City country or world Just what's possible? Open it up if there's any questions from the audience here Kiritato, I'm Kate Frickberg and lovely to be here today One of the things we've talked about today is what makes New Zealand unique and also putting people and planet before profit And one of the things we haven't talked about is the role of Māori particularly Māori business Often I think Māori business is a very good example of incredibly successful Entrepreneurship and also putting people before profit as an example And I thought who's taken their treaty settlement from 1.8 million to I think 1.2 1.3 billion over the last 10 years I mean that's pretty impressive So I'm interested in your take on what is the role the Māori business in this new New Zealand I'm pleased that you asked that question Because I didn't mention it and I think that it is a particular strength Of this country and we think about what's required And how we could learn from the indigenous groups not just within New Zealand but around the world and the good work That's been done in those areas I've been having some discussions with Ngāi Tahu and others about the potential for New Zealand To facilitate the development of a cultural profit and loss account So how could you for example Harness All of that knowledge and wisdom about living with nature and about Business for people, planet and profit. How could you put that into a balance sheet? Jokin zites You may have heard you know transform the face of Puma by developing an environmental profit and loss And we're scaling that globally. So that's putting a price on your environmental impact We're starting to work on social profit and loss, but no one is really thinking about how you might Develop a cultural profit and loss and I think that that's something that New Zealand could develop here and be world leaders in We've already done some work on biodiversity accounting, and I think we can utilize some of the methodologies In that space So I mean I was wondering if you could talk a bit about Just like what are the top couple objections that you see from the investment community in terms of you know obstacles and bringing more resources to the country and Any other further thoughts of things that we can all do to remove those obstacles Subjections from foreigners coming to New Zealand potentially the number of days That they have to they have to be in New Zealand for I think that When when you work with immigration you can ask them to get some form of of dispensation for that. It's a little bit I think Being in New Zealander is a state of mind not a state of body And There are there are plenty of people who they live overseas, but they still consider themselves to be New Zealanders So so why should you have to be here for a certain length of time and not in order to be a New Zealander? so if we make this a bit more about a Culture in a way of life then you've agreed to sign up to that culture and way of life rather than having to spend time here and As we've already said, you know the world is going global and The barriers to living in different places are diminishing every single day New Zealand really should be doing what it what it can to To capture the hearts and minds of people over that means they want to come and live here great if it means that they they want to Be ambassadors for New Zealand they can do that just as easily from from overseas So I'd like to see them Loosen up a little bit on that Maybe They are doing good work immigration immigration New Zealand in terms of getting out and doing road shows amongst high net worth individuals in the states and Japan through Asia So I think that they're slowly they're slowly starting to promote that How they could actually work with other New Zealanders and have other New Zealanders involved in that process and it not just being a government initiative, but actually getting key key Kiwis or even just As we've already said, you know your average Kiwi on the street because generally they they embody the same attitudes that people will have and And just to sort of let people know that there's more of that equality in New Zealand that You're just as likely to have a conversation I think as we discussed with the with the person in the dairy as you are with the CEO in the boardroom There's not that sort of level of social hierarchy In the country and using that as a as a selling point to the country because a lot of people just want to get out of that And they don't see that as being as being important and I think that's something that New Zealand's always been very good at doing and With that lack of social hierarchy, I think you get a better facilitation of ideas You know that said, you know your garage entrepreneurs in New Zealand can sometimes be a little bit sort of scared to share their ideas until they think they're absolutely perfect so I think Getting that fear of failure that would that we've talked about and and getting away from the A bit to the mentality of the tall poppy syndrome or you know, maybe I'll be laughed at and having that accepted Then that would be that would be good for me So anything you guys can come up with to break down those barriers and conjunction with anyone else I'd be most willing to work on but yeah I mean just you're making New Zealand seem very real and Selling New Zealand to people on the basis of what it is And if that means having a cross-section of people that they can meet because that's what their life's going to be like then doing great I Letting them know what investment opportunities Exist in New Zealand and how exciting it can actually be and Dave will attest to this it can be a bit of a rollercoaster ride when you get involved with startups with startups in New Zealand and And also letting them understand that we really value their skills as well so you know it not being necessarily about and Exercise and how much money you've got in the bank But a bit an exercise in the New Zealand government understanding What some of the really key skills that people can bring into the country are and those skills might range from the networks that those people have to to the Understanding they have about particular subjects and topics Because we're a country of generalists we do suffer from from not being specialists At times, you know, you do need you need to bring specialisms into business to to grow them and Because we'll try and think that we can solve every single problem ourselves We can be quite pigheaded at times in New Zealand and we try and we try and solve problems that people have already solved Because we're not we don't we're not prepared to look outside of New Zealand And so you we see plenty of examples of where people have reinvented the wheel and then they come going look Here's a great business idea and a great startup idea and you go. Yeah, well, it was and here's the business that did it 10 years ago So, you know, there are There are there a follow-on thing. So I'd like to see those skills brought into the country and sort of an objective Set of set of skills not just what I did an engineering degree here But what are actually some of the more robust and interesting skills that you that you bring to the country? one of the things that fascinates me is Here in New Zealand. How were one of the first to admit all the things were not really good at Very different from every country that I've been to My question to you guys is around balancing between all the progress that we want to achieve the The ways we want to serve as a model the experimentation the investments that we want to bring into the country With preserving what's beautiful. What's true because that's what at least brought me to this country And I believe that's what keeps everybody here. So how do we balance all the Vision and ideas that we have for what New Zealand can be And preserve what's what's great about it and what everybody likes about it right now. I guess For me, I don't see that as something that needs to be balanced. I think that the two are Necessary to enable each other That we've we've just started on the pathway of What kind of opportunity we could unleash to create a prosperous beautiful country through utilizing the skill sets that we've just Spoken about so one of the things I think that we could do to maybe Help with that decision-making process because the word balance gets used a lot within government here, you know We need to balance economic development with environmental protection How about we shift the conversation around of how can we regenerate this country and and and turn it into the Most prosperous greenest jewel on the edge of the earth What does that look like actually? What does this look like? Where are we now? How are we going to move from this? To this to this vision that we can co-create together. What are those pivot points? Because when you speak to people, I think we could really quickly get to that page of what that Regenerative beautiful future looks like we can see it. We just need to articulate it and create that pathway So there is no need for balance or trade-off We're not a wealthy country Relatively we're going you know, we all know that we're slipping down Many ranks and so we need to think about them as Being mutually beneficial My only Sort of comment on it and I'll try not to be negative about it. So New Zealand. I think just needs to promote more success stories in areas We are we are being successful. So I mean I think we talked about about Rod Drury But there are many other examples of people who have done equally as well and celebrate Celebrate our successes really well and have people understand that New Zealand is Doing well and we can build things on the on the world stage from here and not have them Get so worried about the value of their property And looking at how they can invest their time and effort into into other things And money into other things in New Zealand and be a contributing member of society. I mean interestingly enough We fund some research for a for a PhD student who looked at the Experiences of expats returning to to New Zealand and how they found it and they found a very dissociative experience coming from from overseas to being back in New Zealand because People would be talking about the fact that their neighbors trees were growing over onto their property And how they were going to get their chainsaw out and hack it down or go and drill a hole in it and poison the tree because they Were sick of it and they wanted to talk about the fun experiences that they had had traveling through India or Morocco or doing different different things and you actually ended up with people People in New Zealand who came back who actually got quite depressed About coming back to New Zealand and then decided that it wasn't good for them and left so so part of it is about is about helping people reintegrate back into New Zealand helping people integrate into into the country properly and In getting them a feeling like they're a contributing member of of the society quite quickly All right, we're gonna wrap it up. Thank you so much both of you for your your time and insight really appreciate it and