 Welcome back to ThinkDoc. This is Global Connections. I'm Jay Fidel and I'm with Rupemati Kandakar. She joins us from New York. She is our global reporter and we are talking today about what is going on in Israel today. It's very awful, worse yet every single day. Rupemati, tell us what's going on today in Israel with Hamas. Aloha Jay and it's my pleasure to join you and today we speak about such an important event happening. It's just not an event. It's a catastrophe that is brought in by Hamas and as India stands with Israel, I think I too stand by Israel firmly after seeing this. So let's go to the October 7th attack day, the 710, which happened and it was a surprise assault by Hamas to land, air and sea. Unexpected 5000 terrorists infiltrating Jerusalem, Israel and from the Gaza Strip and taking 900 people dead in a matter of moments and several hundreds hostages, 5000 missiles fired in the early hours of the day. I mean it was an attack which even stunned the iron dome system of Israel and that was the Israeli intelligence failure or you can say it was an attack which stunned the Israel forces because even it took two days for the IDF Israeli defense forces to take control of the ground situation. Now Hamas calls it as Operation Al-Asqa. So Jay if you know about the Al-Asqa mosque it is situated in Jerusalem and it is a holy place for the three religions Judaism, Islam and Christianity. So these three hold it holy but a few days before National Security Advisor Ben Kav said that we would open the gates of the Al-Asqa mosque for all people because it is known as the Temple Mount for the Jews and it's known as the Al-Asqa mosque for the Muslims. So he said that they could come at will. Now Hamas conveniently puts it that this series of events triggered the October 7th attack but Jay that's not true. This is a very concerted well thought planned strategically executed attack which had a foreign hand and we are talking about that Iran being the foreign hand involved in this this Intifat or the uprising that they have is not a meager one. It is a huge one because not only did the target military establishment the targeted civilians and brutally so that kind of brings on the point that this cannot go unanswered. Yes well we thought it was pretty brutal when they were shooting these kids at a music festival people who offered who could not offer any resistance who were unarmed civilians and they shot them in cold blood. It was something out of the Second World War and you know the Nazi pogroms it was brutal mass murder is what it was and then walking through these middle class towns and villages near the Gaza border just shooting people on the street at will who were unarmed who could offer no resistance and going into their homes and holding them hostage in their own homes and you imagine anything more terrifying and then taking them hostage on the street and we saw we saw some videos of that it was very troubling to see it's it's embossed in my mind and memory those videos people being taken hostage being jammed into Israeli jeeps that have been stolen so it was bad enough but now killing 40 children 40 infants is unforgivable and unforgettable and no no country no civilization no society in the world can support that it must be globally condemned by everyone is it every time you think that they have gone to the edge of brutality and they go further and this is really history in the making that they would do this this is beyond ISIS ISIS was really shocking when they would behead people adults at random in orange suits it was just gross and it shook us all up but this is worse much much much worse so the Israelis now will show no corner and they shouldn't they shouldn't they should exactly they should not because see this is not for a cause or a aim this is losing humanity when you go to children you know women also you can accept to a point but children today beheading of babies was the final straw I think they should get a complete vengeance into this because Jay it's not just the legitimate interests of the Palestine people like Iran called it that is the Hamas attack was autonomous and just completely aligned for the legitimate interests of the Palestine people is this legitimate enough to kill babies and to take hostages and to rape rape women march women naked in the street that's really beyond you know let's war crimes beyond war crimes so undoubtedly this will contribute to Islamophobia I mean they they say that you know you call it a religion of peace and everything jihad is violent Islam has a violent streak in it and till when are you going to play the psychiatric game and say no no it is it is mild and everything no it is brutal it is it is does not have empathy and Islam has always spread with the sword it has never had mercy so you know you have to accept the fact that Islamophobia is going to be real now you cannot disguise a religion on the basis of make believe things when they in reality are creating such a ruckus that we don't we don't know what is humanity right now we have come to the question of are you human enough you know even israeli forces have called them animals that's the reason why electricity food water has been cut it is not it is not because of cornering them or anything it is because of the brutality that they have infected that they need to be dealt with brutality you cannot call the israeli forces harsh they are dealing with animals human animals in their courts so they have bought it down to this everybody was peacefully coexisted this thing till october 6 they did not need to do this and they did not need to elevate it to another level and another level shows you what their leadership is like and it shows you their leadership is solidly entrenched and doing what it has decided to do you know a day or two ago we saw a video of people who were in Gaza who were injured and taken to hospital because of Israeli bombings apparently they didn't get the word that the Israelis were going to bomb they stayed at home this happened before in the last Gaza war they stayed at home because Hamas told them to stay at home despite the fact that we're going to get on and then they wind up being killed and injured and we have all these these video shots of these people you know on stretchers and hospitals and all that it's very hard to feel sympathy for those videos and those people now if they think that anyone is going to care about the people who are being wounded in Hamas in you know in in Hamas they're not they're not going to find any sympathy anywhere so let's let's talk about Iran because that was you know the issue on which we posited this show and we're going to talk about Iran as a as a as a factor and at first there was a we don't know kind of response if Iran is involved and I don't know if there's more hard evidence about that but there's certainly deductive evidence so logistic evidence that demonstrates that Iran must be involved you want to talk about that so when this attack happened Tehran put his hands up and said we are not involved in it and that Iran Iran mission to the United Nations said that it is a fiercely autonomous and unwaveringly committed maneuver for the legitimate interests of the Palestine so they give weapons training and financial support to Hamas now Israel estimates this support of Iran to be to the tune of hundred million dollars a year now that is huge money and we have spoken in our previous programs how we talked about the drone now Shaheen is a drone which Iran has developed and selling it by the bulk to Russia that is where they're getting their funding from big time so they have got something to sell and purchase everything and Jay Hamas is very well supported by Iran Hamas is a Sunni militant organizer now Iran is a Shia country Iran and Hamas did not see eye to eye now the Sunni Shia divide in Islam is a big thing because when Assad President Assad Aspar Assad Bashar al-Assad of Syria came into power against his Sunni counterparts Hamas did not side with Iran they had a conflict of interest you know the Shia Sunni divide has created havoc within Iraq Yemen so Shia Sunni don't see eye to eye but overturning these considerations Iran still supports Hamas why they have an enmity with Israel their president Ahmadinejad had said that we want to wipe Israel off the map I mean you have such a direct confrontational attitude towards the country how they refuse to recognize Israel as a state I mean that is the aggressive so you have them not coming face to face they know they cannot face Israel because of Shia power so they will train these terrorist units Hamas within Israel and Hisbulla in Lebanon now Hisbulla is a Shia outfit Shia militant outfit that is that is the one which on the second day itself started firing missiles into Israel now Israel imagine on the first thing you are sorting out things on your home ground and you have Lebanon Hisbulla backed by Iran throwing out missiles towards you so you have a country to face on your side I mean Israel is facing a difficult task with Hisbulla and Hamas these two are Shia militant organizations and they have representation on the governments they have representation on platforms like the United Nations they have they come on conferences what are you trying to present these are legitimate causes served with violent means to grab these causes so it is I mean the logistical support that Iran gives to these people is not overt but it is definitely not covert you can easily say this is Iran who is involved in this kind of funding and the param param gliders who came in Israel today I mean that was a sight we had never seen before it needs somebody to operate beyond the lines over there and Jay when we see the USS aircraft carrier Gerald Ford come into the seas it is not for Hamas it is to deter Hisbulla Lebanon and Iran if you come in we will we are here so you know US knows how to deal with Iran and US knows how to keep Iran within its limits and Jay Iran is religiously dictated society and for them this hijab and the Muslim thing is happening domestically so they need this kind of jingoism that we are supporting the Palestine cause and we are doing this to keep the nationalistic sentiments or Islamic sentiments of their domestic population and create diversion to the hijab thing and the killings and all that so that is another aspect of Iran how why they support Islam and Jay UAE the United Arab Emirates has who is one of the first Muslim countries to come in support of Israel Saudi Arabia has just come in support of Palestine but Saudi Arabia has signed a deal with Israel for the economic corridor which is a alternative to the belt route of China so and you see Salman of Saudi Arabia is very competitive in seeing that who's the most developing country India or Saudi in the in Asia for the G20 so he is concentrating on economic considerations rather than religious affiliations and he doesn't want to spoil his relations with Israel economic considerations are a notch above religious considerations for these progressive countries right now you know the starving the bankrupt countries came out within hours and said we stand with Palestine okay but the countries who are economically oriented who are thinking of progress rather than you know these religious inclinations have taken days to make their stand clear and they have thought about it very well so Jay you understand that religious considerations are important but not to such an extent that they override humanity and this is where we have to leave Israel to make sure that they protect their citizens and the world unites for the right cause legitimate cause everything is now not making any sense because humanity is lost we need to understand that this is not a war for terror is a war for humanity now yeah well it's it's hard to see it as a war for ideology I mean I think it's a war for hatred and as you said it's a war for you know for a scapegoat you know Iran's government has had some issues and some protests and people are rising up against the the what do you call it religious government there this is a way to change the subject so and boy are they changing the subject so the other the other logic parts that strike me is that both Iran and Hamas have a fundamental point of view that Israel must be destroyed and every last Jew must be killed and driven into the ocean and that's that's that's the common denominator so it's a they're good natural friends now um so that they override the Islamic Sunni Shia are like enemies but they forget that conveniently just to be against Israel so that is so dangerous yeah so then is this these logic points about what is it five thousand missiles and still going the missiles are still going incredible um and where exactly would a very poor community like Gaza which has been isolated which has been blockaded from the sea anyway and to a large extent from the land how how could they get their hands on five thousand missiles do they have the money for that you know some countries have been giving the money just money so maybe they could actually buy things like that but more likely Iran you know who has the technology for missiles gave them the missiles five thousand missiles where else would it come from Brooklyn um you know it had to come from Iran and I think we can all conclude on a logical basis it came from Iran and then you have those those flying you know flying machines that probably came from Iran it just makes all the sense in the world they had to be funded uh also and there has to be as you said hundred million dollars a year maybe a special boost this year coming from Iran so I think Iran is largely responsible here and ultimately history will show that they were responsible for the planning the organization the leadership of this attack um although I think they will deny it because it's not good for them to be associated with killing um infants um it's not good for them in the eyes of the world they're pariah enough already this will this will make them further pariah I don't know how you can be more of a pariah um but this this will this will make them even more of a pariah um so you know we thought okay everybody back less what is it Friday or so we uh or Saturday we we thought that things had changed in the world that history had taken a a sharp turn and certainly for Israel um it has taken a sharp turn um politically and um you know in the eyes of the world in the eyes of the US even though Joe Biden you know um you know uh it keeps on saying that he will support Israel it's a different Israel now it's different Israel and and Israel sees a different future for itself um you know for years and years Israel thought that it could it was resisting all of these hostile neighbors and somehow it couldn't survive but now that's not entirely clear when you have a a two front war and then Palestinians on the west bank that it's more to come so um it's living in a world of hostility and frankly hatred it's much more hatred than it is religion um so I think we've had it we've had an inflection point in history in the Middle East and it's going to be very hard to put things back together again very hard to reorganize the relationships the geopolitical and diplomatic relationships that Israel has forged with various countries that progress is really in question right now including with Saudi Arabia I guess um um there's there's connections between what happened here and Mr Putin uh with uh Ukraine with Russia's attack on Ukraine I mean we're talking about the um the liberal world order at great risk at great risk where one party can attack and attempt to destroy its neighbor that's what we're talking about and somehow I feel there's a connection between Russia's attack on Ukraine and Iran's attack uh Hamas attack on Israel what do you think yeah Jay war can never be distinguished as a good war and a bad war a just war an unjust war it is war is war because it inflicts a loss of humanity and loss of human lives which cannot be reclaimed again ever I mean it's it's finality that is involved in it and Jay when we see these countries which are on the receiving end of a war war we see that uh tolerance has to take a backseat and aggressiveness does does not is kind of justified because these countries are now defending they're just right they're just trying to claim or you know they're just trying to defend themselves now there is not one person in the world who can stand up and say that Israel is in the wrong right now because it has just done defending in this case everything was smooth until October 6th we did not know anything was going to happen now you tell me how can you say that this is wrong or they have done wrong because they have just reacted and every action has an equal and opposite reaction we know that so it's I think it should be amplified reaction that they give because lesson taught once and for all because this would be a repetitive it's become a habit Jay it's become a habit to get back to involve in conflict and get back to normalcy involve in conflict again get back to normalcy give a few conferences give a few speeches pass a few resolutions again come back to the same point but there is no there has to be a permanent solution this time isn't it Jay well you say there has to be but that doesn't mean there will be let me let me ask you about Putin Putin you know he benefits by all this why he he distracts the world's attention from Ukraine it's not on the headlines and Joe Biden and the American government such as it is is looking at and focused on the Israel attack rather than Ukraine and there'll be issues about money and weapons going to Israel instead of Ukraine so this obvious that all of this distraction helps Putin so much so that you really wonder whether Putin was involved in the cabal with Iran what do you think or the conspiracy theories are so far fetched there's even one that China funded because they were alternated with the Belt Road we had the economic corridor with Israel and Saudi coming together it was a shocker for the world so China has also funded this it is there but put in being put in is busy in his war Iran is the one who is the rogue nation as Obama had pointed out in his list of rogue nations they want to hire largest state in Middle East politics and they always lose out that whole position to Saudi Arabia that hurts them Jay so how do you get into the thick of things in geopolitics is this way rogue Iran has done that they have funded Hamas and Hezbollah just to trouble Israel now Hamas and Hezbollah are just targeting their energies to Israel they don't target themselves anywhere else so the first thing that the Israeli forces did was to bomb the Gaza National Bank so that the funding stops first and foremost internet cut water cut I mean these were things which had to be taken care of to remove the outside influence once the outside influence was removed they could tackle these otherwise with continuous funding and continuous directions they had a very hard time dealing with these rogues well I tell you the truth I personally I expected that they would do a siege it's the logical thing to do and granted that it really is painful to put your you know put the hostages at risk which which a siege does do but I think Israel is looking to you know find and destroy the Hamas leadership and in order to do that they have got to do a siege a land siege they did it today the tankers were on on ground today did the Israeli troops go into Hamas yes yes they are going they are going in land siege siege by air siege by by by water completely isolate you know the the Hamas community there and then what though what happens then and if somebody comes out with a white flag and says stop because before you thought well if Israel did this then you know Gaza would turn the hostages back but that's a different that's a different formulation right now you can't believe them about turning the hostages back God knows how many other hostages they killed or abused and so Israel I'm not sure Israel would be you know sympathetic to a white flag I think they're going to be they're going to satisfy themselves that Hamas has been destroyed and cannot they're not going to trust now it's not possible to trust now what about Israel so we saw that Netanyahu did damage to the democratic process in Israel and people argue that she was he's kind of responsible because he he made Israel vulnerable to an attack like this because all people you know protesting in the street and the government was you know fighting with itself it's just like in the US by the way there's a real parallel there and so Israel is going to change first thing that happens is Netanyahu galvanizes the various factions and now he forms a new coalition I don't know if it's formed yet but but you know this gives him political additional political influence and so you know that Israel will change the protests in the street will change the parties who might have argued with each other a couple weeks ago will change you have a you have a sense of what the new Israel will look like Netanyahu has mobilized and garnered coalition support for his cause but the rightist the nationalist leaders are what Israel needs right now I mean however however hard or tough it may sound taking a tough stance against this immediately he came out and said Israel is at war it's not a it's not a movement it's not you know it's not a small thing it's a war if you declare that and to mobilize troops he's called back all the troops from all over the world the Israeli forces and Jay having a strongly I mean I may not agree with Netanyahu on so many policies but when it comes to defending his country I think he's the right man for the job right now because the kind of action that he takes or I mean if they would have been a new leader without this much experience in his place right now maybe we would have had a very cushioned attack or you know they would have been a little bit of trembling but this person is a hard liner he knows how to defend Israel I mean criticize me if you want but I feel a nationalist leader is always an asset to a country and I speak that in for Israel because you see Jay having love for the country means you have hate for the people who hurt the country it is as simple as that if you're sympathetic to them if you give them your hand they will catch your neck and they will strangle it like we are seeing for all these hostages what is happening if they had a sense of right they would have kept the hostages in human conditions and negotiate but they are not human well another funny thing is there are some countries in the world that are not humane the autocratic countries the countries that engage in this sort of thing themselves not to this extent but who engage in brutality themselves they're not going to be sympathetic to Israel they're more likely to be sympathetic to the Palestinians and Hamas so let's take China for one moment we don't have a whole lot of time left but let me let me ask you when Chuck Schumer was in China talking to one of the foreign policy people there he was trying to get he was trying to extract the commitment that they would support Israel and they didn't they didn't provide it so China is on the fence on this issue just the way it's on the fence on Ukraine and I suggest it may stay on the fence which is not a moral answer it's not even an answer that recognizes the you know the slaughter of children um but that's that's China uh self-interested do you think that that China will make an exception to that you know general approach because of the children because of this gross attack or will China stay on the fence China will sit on the fence in a zen mode as always they will they will maybe be uh you know in in between the conflict but they will pretend to have a zen mode so that is the kind of uh Chinese stance we have never heard China take a stand on any of the issues that we have seen yet but J Israel is in such a unique position because I'll tell you the hatred that the countries have for Israel if there's a conflict in Israel you have countries which come in group up gang up and want to defeat Israel Israel has been defeating minimum of six countries every every time it goes into conflict you have Lebanon come in you have Jordan join in the party you have Iran always there you have every Yemen you know this is Palestine itself countries who come into hurt Israel and Israel has friends all over the world who say we stand with Israel but how many countries jump into the war now the jumping in of these countries against Israel is only because of religious affirmations this is my brother of my religion so I will come into defend him but Israel is fighting alone six countries I mean you have to give it a thought that this is uh personal vendetta uh gang gang uh war against one country how many times does it have to face the same situation again and again against minimum of six countries for the same issue of being in their own homeland and you know Islam was came at a later date and their way of propagating the religion was to destroy the previous place of worship and build their place of worship it's happened in India in the temples they used to destroy the temples and build their mosque and say this is the island it might have been the birthplace of our main gods Krishna Ram but they don't have any point and then we will have a conflict for decades and uh eons that this is my land and this is not your land so the same thing is with Israel that was the promised land as before that doesn't mean you came at a later date if you want to stay in alignment with each other yes but if you want to remove us from that that doesn't happen much so they both the Jews and the Islam people have a legitimate cause stay in harmony but if you're thinking of hurting and destroying you will get an answer and then you think that that answer is wrong so there you have a problem when you point fingers at Israel that is Israel's right to self-defense period on that I hear saying these things and I remember the last war with Gaza between Israel and Gaza Hamas started it from Gaza they attacked out of you know across the border into Israel same thing with those settlements in the southern part of Israel unprovoked attack and so this you know it's a pattern and I also remember that Israel you know used to control Gaza but they gave it up to Hamas gave it up to the Gazans and then Hamas took over Gaza and now you have a a terror organization running a running Gaza it's very tragic and what do you do with those people what do you do with the border what do you do for Israel's defense all these questions well anyway we'll come back and discuss it more group money because it's a moving target literally and maybe in a week or two we can catch up on the events that have taken place because we're we're in a changing world right now and it's very troubling thank you so much root money kandikar our global reporter here on our global connections on think tank thank you so much thank you very much aloha aloha