 Aloha. Welcome to Talk Story with John Whitehead. Today I have Representative Chris Lee as my guess. The representative represents in the state legislature, I guess it's Waimanalo District. Waimanalo and Kailua. And more importantly, in addition to his public service, he is a leader of what we would consider to be the progressive movements in Hawaii. People who are on the cutting edge of making sure that Hawaii remains Hawaii. So welcome, Chris. Oh, thanks for having me. Well, look, not everybody is from Waimanalo or from your district, okay? And hopefully people are watching this all over the island. So tell us a little bit about yourself. I mean, where did you grow up? Where did you go to school? All of this stuff. I grew up here. This is home, right in Kailua. And never imagined I'd get into public office or anything like that in my years at Iolani where I went, but came home from college realizing that, you know what, people can individually make a difference and got involved to help with that. I think it's been a tremendous ride. This has been my ninth year in my office. What did you do before you ran for the House of Representatives? You know, the truth is I wish I had a sexy story about, you know, becoming this, that and the other thing, but I actually, I got into college thinking I was going to be an architect. Okay, double majored in that and some engineering and eventually switched into political science. And after that, I got an internship at the Capitol. So I did a lot of background analysis, looking at policy and the process and how to actually engage more people in that. And that's something I focused on behind the scenes for about three or four years before I ever decided to run for office. Well, did you get married along the way? You know, I think the job, it eats up a lot of your time. So this is my opportunity maybe to put it out there. Out there, he's available, right? I just thought we'd bring it up. So you've been elected nine times. Four or five times now. Five times. That's that's 10 years. Yeah. I can't believe it. I remember seeing you for your first race waving on the streets there. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, what it takes to get in, right? I mean, you got to work hard. And I think that's something that from from yesteryear today into the future is going to be the gold standard, right? You got to show your commitment. You are always I've known you as being somebody who's interested in the ocean and the environment and things like that. And why don't you tell us a little bit about your work in those areas? Yeah, I think growing up here, you know, you really appreciate what Hawaii is, but you don't really appreciate it till you leave. Right. And for me, it was going to college. And I was lucky I went to college at Oregon State up in the Northwest where there's a different kind of beauty and came home and realized, you know what? We've got it good here. We really do. And we got to protect and promote the things that we value so that our kids can take advantage. And so I really focused in on a lot of the environmental policy and energy policy. In the legislature, I chair the Energy and Environmental Protection Committee. Right. And we've taken a lot of big steps recently. We made Hawaii the first state to be 100% renewable by 2045. We've written a whole new Hawaii Climate Adaptation Initiative to deal with our erosion. Explain that to us. I mean, what do you mean when you say that? Yeah, I think the debate we're having at the national level right now about where the priorities are. And I think this recent election, this past week, electing President Elect Trump really underscores some of the policy shifts we're seeing in the bigger world. Right. But here in Hawaii, we know we're the preeminent state that knows firsthand what it means to be susceptible to climate change. To global warming. Yeah. I mean, really. We've seen 17 miles of our beaches erode in recent decades. We've seen sea level rise more than half a foot. We're seeing 15-plus hurricanes per year. This is not normal. This didn't exist. Didn't exist. There were no hurricanes when I was growing up. I mean, seriously, the first hurricane that in modern times that hit Hawaii was Iniki. In 80, what, 84? Oh, Eva. Eva. Eva. Eva. Iniki came when I was in office. There were two, 10 years apart. And that didn't happen before. And scientists have told me that that has something to do with the fact that the ocean around Hawaii is getting warmer. That's right. And we see this happening all over the world. Yeah. I think we look at it as, you know, in Hawaii, we're not going to solve this problem by reducing our carbon emissions and all that. But we definitely have a leadership role to play, particularly with respect to the rest of the states throughout the country, because we feel these effects, and we can already measure them. Well, you can describe it, but you can also, I think that the Pacific, the Pacific islands are looking, would like a leader. They need a leader. They need somebody to carry their voice into the United States halls, into the halls. Congress, even, you know. And they need to have somebody speaking up to them. In fact, what I've been told is that there might be a relationship between global warming and some of our homeless problems. Because often what's maybe happening is that islands are shrinking, and people have nowhere else to go for economic, well, just living, just to go and live. And Hawaii may be the first part of call. So this is an important issue, not only because it's a good thing, but it sounds like survival, don't you think? It very much is. I think it's our culture and way of life here that we want to perpetuate, and it's going to change whether we like it or not. So we've got to take steps now to do what we can. And we've already seen, and this is the important thing when we talk about Hawaii as a role model for other states. You know, the progress we've made on renewable energy in just the last 10 years has saved Hawaii over a quarter billion dollars already. And when people talk about global warming and climate change on the East Coast and in DC as sort of a hypothetical as our children's problem, we feel it now, and our progress demonstrates that we can save now and help people today. Well, that's fantastic. Well, let me ask you something, though. The new president doesn't seem to... Well, it doesn't seem to acknowledge the existence of global warming. And there is a kind of an international consensus that I guess President Obama joined into on the... I'm trying to remember the name... Paris. The Paris Agreements. The Paris Agreements. Now, how does... What's happening? I mean, how does this all work? Yeah, you know, I think what we have seen in the last couple of years has been a shift from trying to get the United States to lead to a point where we are now trying to catch up to other countries like China and others who are actually making significantly more progress in some areas than we are. And this agreement brings all nations around the world together to say, you know what, we're going to act together. It's no one nation's problem. It's our problem. Well, I heard Senator Schatz told me today that he was informed that there are countries that are saying, look, we don't care what President Trump may do. We are going to continue these initiatives. Oh, absolutely. I think... Oh, no, go ahead. I'll say, you take these things out of context, because we're in the United States and we're in our own media bubble and we hear certain things, but outside of this country, right? You've got 195 countries around the world. President-elect Trump is the only head of state who pretends like global warming isn't a real thing. Even Kim Jong-il, even Vladimir Putin, are taking significant steps in their countries to acknowledge the threat and take action to prevent the worst. And that's something that says a lot. Well, it says a lot. But it also says that, you know, and what is... There's a new... It appears to be like a new era going on with this... We don't know what's going to happen with President Trump, but most of the news has, at least to me, not been positive in terms of things like environmental issues. So how does this all relate back to your work in the legislature? I mean, what can Hawaii do? What can we do to ensure that, you know, we're moving forward in a positive way? Yeah, and I think we have clearly set the bar so far throughout the country with what we've been doing on energy and climate. But I think now in this new era, where I hope, you know, I give President-elect Trump sort of the benefit of the doubt in a way and hope that he rises to the challenge and says, you know what, we've got to work together. But assuming for a minute the worst-case scenario that we don't get a lot of support out of DC for four years, perhaps, it is incumbent on our parts as states to rise up to protect our residents, to protect our economy. And so I think we're going to see a lot more action at the state level. And in particular, we have an opportunity to partner with other states. And we've been reaching out around the country, California, Virginia, states you would not otherwise expect. And this is a network that you're part of and working with? That's right. We're working with legislators from over 40 states now to try and synchronize our actions and figure out best practices and how to move forward on our own, assuming that there's not going to be help. We hope there is. Well, one of the things that I think that people worry about is that they seem to make a choice. It seems like a choice. You're either going to take care of the environment or you're going to create jobs for people. You know, so there's, there's, there seems to be there, at least people like to put up this sort of this dichotomy. But is that, as you see it, or how does that all work together? I think it is, you're right, that it's sort of the conventional wisdom, but I don't think it's true. And I think we can point to our experience in the last like five years here in Hawaii is the clear proof of that where during the height of the recession, right, we saw jobs fall back and tourism dollars go down. The fastest growing sector of Hoy's economy was surprisingly renewable energy, which is environmentally focused one quarter of the building permits in Honolulu in about the 2012 timeframe were for renewable energy projects for solar panels and all of that sort of thing. Did that have anything to do with the fact that the legislature was had the foresight to, you know, provide credits or anything like any kind of programs? I think I think it definitely had to do with the support that the state put out, you know, you make a commitment that we're gonna we're gonna work on this and give businesses some certainty and make it a safe investing environment and you can build out businesses that create jobs and we saw thousands created in that period of time. So do you see all of this as an alternative to, you know, at one point in time, Hawaii really had three sectors in the economy. I mean, we have obviously still have tourism. Agriculture was a big part of what we did. And also the military. Now, does do you see a future for, for example, agriculture in as far as the economy is concerned, or how does that all fit together? I think agriculture is one of those areas of greatest potential. You know, I think a lot of people look at the demise of pineapple and sugar and say, you know, it's a thing of the past. But the truth is, we import more than 80% of our food that we eat. And if we can just grow that locally, imagine the jobs, imagine the savings for local consumers, and imagine the security we have in the event of a disaster or hurricane. But on top of that, we're looking at converting our transportation sector, which now consumes two thirds of our fossil fuels here in the state to be renewable. And part of that is electric cars and all of that. Wouldn't that be great? Don't you think Hawaii would be the perfect place for electric cars? But the other thing it shows is that where you have jet fuel that you need, or fuel for ships, or even buses, you have the potential for biofuels that can be grown out of crops right here in our own ag sector. So there's enormous crossover, and that means a lot of jobs. Well, I tell you, we're going to take a short break. And in a few minutes, we're going to come back and talk more about what can, what are some of your ideas for increasing the economic viability of Hawaii, as well as the, you know, any issue. Plus, he's a, he's a bachelor, girls. So, you know, if you want to call me, the number we have here is 415-871-2474. 415-871-2474. You can call me and ask any question except for his phone number. Okay. So that is off limits. We'll be right back. Aloha. I'm Kaui Lucas, host of Hawaii is my mainland here on Think Tech, Hawaii every Friday afternoon at 3pm. Start your Paul Hanna weekend off with the show where I talk to people about issues pertinent to Hawaii. You can see my previous shows at my blog, kauilukas.com, and also on Think Tech's show. Sorry. Aloha. I'm Carl Campania, host of Think Tech, Hawaii's Movers, Shakers and Reformers. I hope you join us over the next several weeks as we take a deep dive into biofuels in Hawaii and explore the alternative fuels supply chain necessary for the local and global transition towards transportation fuel sustainability. Join us as we have good conversations with our farmers, our producers, our conversion technologies, our investors and our legislators as we try to achieve our transportation sustainability goals. See you soon. Welcome back, everyone. We are talking story with John Waihei, who has as his guest Chris Lee, state representative, one of the outstanding leaders of our state. And we were talking earlier about the environment, global warming. We had a chance to hear some of your ideas about what we can do about increasing agriculture as it's productive. But one of the problems of living in Hawaii is the cost of housing. That's right. I mean, it's perennial. It was a problem when I was in office and it's fortunately still a problem. What can we do about it? I mean, what's, you know, what can the state legislature do about this problem of affordable housing? You know, I speak, I have a lot of experience with this because I can't afford a house in the district I represent right now in Kailua where the median home price is north of a million dollars. And I think this is true of all my friends I grew up with who are attorneys and doctors and they do well for themselves. And I think we see a lot of reliance on, for example, in my case, you know, mom and dad have been great and they've let me pick it at home for a number of years and I wouldn't be able to make it otherwise. I hope my kids are saying the same thing. You know, they thought of Christmas is coming up. I hope you get something good. But tell us, yeah, so what can we do about that? Because it's especially for your I don't, if you don't mind me saying, especially for your generation, but for all people in Hawaii. Yeah, it's a problem. Absolutely. And there is infinite demand from the outside where people coming in to move here to say we want to want to build these multi-billion dollar condos in Kakaako and yet, you know, our state representative from Kailua still needs his parents' help to find a home. Yeah, that's right. So I think there is a lot we can do and this is exciting because I think for the first time you're seeing constituencies from different groups that never really had a focus on housing before come together to try and push something big. And you got folks like Face, the faith action community equity groups, you've got the environmental groups, you've got social services folks, all in labor. And what we're looking at, I think, is a paradigm shift in the way that we look at how we build out housing. Okay. And instead of going through the regular rigmarole of the permitting process and the zoning process and then waiting in the ten years for a developer to come along and try and finance the project to build what ends up being like 20 units. What we said at the legislature this past year was, no, okay, we know the challenge we face and it's significant. Right. Band-aid approaches and fixes don't work anymore. So we said we want 20 plus thousand units to be built in a short amount of time and that sets the goal high. Now we got to come back this year and in a meaningful way try and streamline the process where it's appropriate to make sure that projects can move faster, don't end up in court, don't end up with the bottom dropping out. Don't end up being opposed by the very community that you want to help. Absolutely. And I think there's there's definitely room to compromise, especially on the urban core where you've already got development buildings and everything else. How do we fast-track more units down here that are affordable for folks like my friends and our kids and open it up and that way you don't have to sacrifice. And one of the problems in Hawaii, at least when I was in office seemed to be the existence of monopolies, that there were very few landowners, very few developers, very few people who were in the business. Is there any way to sort of bringing new energy and new people, maybe more community participation or something? Yeah, we actually launched into an effort last year looking at the kind of downtown Kapalama-Kalehi area and figuring out what can we do here to empower this community to provide for its next generation. Right? You're in a key area that's kind of underused for that purpose. And this is where we got this momentum built now, where you got landowners like Kamehameha Schools and Castle and Cook now working alongside community groups and folks who are stepping up saying, hey, we want our say too and let's create a plan together. And it's actually starting to move in a real way. And that's exciting. Well, it is exciting because it's also a paradigm shift because in the past the traditional method for a landowner would be to dribble projects out so that you can increase the pricing. Yeah. But what you're talking about is something a little bit more broad-based. Yeah. And it's actually, it's sort of good in a way that the timing works out this way because we've seen a glut of construction, right? And project costs have gone up in recent years as a result. But that's going to slow down in 18, 19, 2020. And so the question is can we line up now all these projects so that we fill that space when the time comes? And that creates an incentive for everybody from the construction companies to the developers, to the landowners, to the state and the recipients of affordable housing to get their ducks in a row so that we can get this stuff done in a few years. What can we do, or have you given any thought to the fact that we recently went through a great, a big recession, almost a depression? And there were a lot of foreclosures in the islands. And I've been told that most of that didn't come from the local banks. What happened was that apparently mainland banks were out slicing and dicing and syndicating loans and mortgages. And there was no the traditional relationship between the bank and the borough, which was let me keep you in your home so you can keep paying us off, was broken. I mean, how do we fix those kind of things? I've, you know, you're sort of a progressive guy, or you are a progressive, that sort of things that Elizabeth Warren talks about. Sure. You know, I think you've actually done a lot of work yourself right in this field, right? Looking at DHHL, Department of Hawaiian Homeland, and trying to get people into housing. And I think there's some lessons to be learned there that can apply much more broadly. Right now, there's a financing program that was created not long ago that is not only helping people buy into houses, but even years beforehand, set them up financially so they're able to do it. Right. And they can align things up so that they can qualify to begin with. That's the kind of thing that also they have somebody to relate to, you know? Oh yeah. Because, you know, we often sign a mortgage for 30 years, but none of us expect to have a problem free 30 years. Sure. Things change, you know, Donald Trump gets elected, I should say that. But things, you know, things like, and so there needs to be, by the way you mentioned it, you also represent Waimanawal. That's right. Where there's a Hawaiian homestead. What's happening with Hawaiian issues? I mean, where, where, you know, we and I do appreciate what people refer to as the whole host culture of Hawaii. At the same time, we want to do something that's inclusive with everybody in Hawaii. And what do you do? And how do you represent your homestead? Yeah, this is interesting because Waimanawal, you have Waimanawal right next door to Kailua. Right. Which in a lot of ways are polar opposite communities. Except when you hang out there and you find out they're all friends. Oh, absolutely. And they're going through each other's lives. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, it goes so far as the culture is so fantastic. You go down to the beach parks and ensure that, you know, homeless folks living down there, but they're, you know, cousins and family are the folks living in the homes down the street. Right, right. And they're actually welcome in the community in a lot of ways. Yeah. Which you don't see many other places. Well, I gotta tell you that because in Waimanawal, we, when I was in office, we built these homeless villages for homeless people. And the one that there's still is in existence is in Waimanawal. That's right. Waimburg Village. Waimburg Village. And it is a part of the community. Yeah, absolutely. And do you find yourself like, um, well, I felt that we should try to make, you know, to the extent that you can provide homes for on the homesteads for Native Hawaiians. You actually make available homes for everybody in terms of the total number of houses available. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we know, you know, the history of the waiting lists and DHHL, thousands of families waiting to get into homes. I think we're finally at a point where you can do things differently, right? You don't have to build the big giant house, you know, set back off the street, single family, all that. There are other kinds of cheaper units that can do multi-family approaches. In fact, that was one of the problems, was getting it so that we had other options besides single family units on, you know, very upgraded parcels. Yeah. And actually, this cuts to the core of not only this discussion about having the ability to afford housing up front, but ultimately being financially ready as a family to occupy the way we construct housing now. And we're working with DHHL right now on this. If you look at the operating costs, right, your power bill and your water bill, you can build homes differently today with solar panels and batteries and water reuse that immeasurably cut down on the cost for consumers to live there. And you can do that right up front for almost the same cost as you used to be able to build a regular house before. So these are things that can change that financial dynamic. Well, they've just changed the paradigm. Yeah. Well, look, you are known, and we'll put you on the spot here. You are known as one of the progressive leaders of Hawaii, okay. And recently, and I know that we recently had an election and Senator Sanders ran and Hillary Clinton, but we got stuck with Donald Trump. Now, some people may be happy, others of us may be a little leery, but I want to know what does a progressive leader do in a Trump era? What are your priorities? What do you think not only for Hawaii but for the nation? What do you think, where do you think we ought to be heading? Sure. You know, I don't look at myself so much as a progressive leader so much as someone who tries to really look out for everybody. And I think those two values align in a lot of ways. Looking out for the little guy, trying to make sure that all of us in Hawaii can make it. That's the bottom line. And I think whether it's the Trump administration or the Sanders administration, honestly, it makes a small difference to us here in Hawaii. But not as great a one I think as most people expect. Because I think in Hawaii we have our own way of doing things. We want to proactively decide our future and empower our communities to make those decisions. I think that's something that is irrelevant to who's in the White House. Well, I tell you what, though, it's not irrelevant to who's in the Congress. Oh, wow. And someday I hope to see you in Washington, you know, and maybe get a chance to even deal with on these issues on the broad scale. I think it's exciting. And I wish you well. Oh, thank you so much. I hope that there are more people like you in the state in the state capital. I know they are. And I hope that you're you know, you really look seriously at the scene whether you can help not only Hawaii, but the nation as a whole. Something to give serious thought about perhaps this year for the first time looking ahead. And yeah, there's an opportunity. You know, I think if there's a vacancy and so you are, you have you have ambitions in that direction. Well, I passed up a Senate seat running for that before I passed up running for Congress before because I was working on things here. But honestly, not that there's not more to work on, but I've achieved a lot of the things that I initially set out to do. And for me, you know, about five years ago when I was in office, I had a stroke. Oh, really? Which I didn't know that. Yeah, it was tough. But while I was laying there in the hospital, they kind of realized that, you know, if I want this to be worth it, the effort and the time we put into everything we're working on, we can't wait for the next generation of leaders. You need to take up and step up. You got to do it. Well, guys, this is why you should be listening to this show because you just heard some, you know, you just heard somebody say that they're waiting to step up and even go to a higher office and also how you overcame your own tragedy. I would love to hear more about it. Unfortunately, we are out of time. Thank you so much for joining us. And I hope, you know, I hope you're the best.