 They're now they're now hearing us, though, though they didn't hear you a little spiel just now. Hello, everyone. And welcome back to for the main is the weekly show where we talk about the most recent updates for predecessor over prime and ethereal. This week, we're going to be talking about the early access for predecessor, the early access for over prime, and we've got some some map and UI stuff for ethereal. I'm your host, the man goose joining me as always, my friend and co host jelly knees. How you doing, jelly? I am fantastic man goose. We had a great stream yesterday of the get through gaming tournament. I'm excited for today's NA version of it. And I'm excited to be on FTM with all the the cool news coming out this week, apparently. And with us, we've replaced our usual long beard guy with a different long beard guy. Welcome different long beard guy. How are you guys upgraded the beard? I see. I appreciate it. How are we doing? It's good. Everybody. I'm the beautiful Marine. I'm excited to be here. Excited to talk some some fault. I mean, I mean, I wanted to break bearded on because predecessor has been announcing a lot of information that bearded has been very good at at least trying and giving a fair shot to all of these games. But here on FTM, we seem to have gone on a bit of an over prime lean, which I don't think is all our fault. It's just that over prime has been giving us a lot more information. So I brought bearded in because I believe bearded you do prefer predecessor over over prime. Right? I do. I do. It's not. It's not as far in the lead as it was before this last final test, though. Okay. I'll say that. We'll get into that with the show then. Yeah. Definitely. All right. Well, let's move on now to predecessor. So predecessor announced this week that early access will start on December 1st. They did their gameplay trailer and then they had a message from RGSA is talking about the different features that will be there and won't be there and their pricing and a little bit about their history and stuff like that. So bearded, you're the guest. What do you think of all this info? It's great. I'm excited for it. The trailer, I actually, contrary to popular opinion, I guess, I really enjoyed the trailer. I enjoyed it a lot. I know we got a friend of ours that said it would look like a high school project. And I don't see that. I don't know. I mean, I guess maybe my high school wasn't that good, but there's nobody in my high school that's not doing that good in school. So. So California bearded. So I can tell you that definitely is a high school project nearby Hollywood guaranteed. So what I mean in that situation, obviously different demographic here, Michigan, we're not doing that stuff. But I don't know. I enjoyed it. I thought it got the point across. It did exactly what it needed to do. So I was impressed by it. I enjoyed because, you know, I joked about fault earlier. The best thing about the movie one up was showing the, you know, the characters and how they were like how Countess was looking at Murdoch and stuff of that. And, you know, they were chasing. They brought the characters life. They did that in this trailer. I like how they did that kind of shows you that there's actually going to be some stuff going on, like a little more lore possibly to it. So I actually, I really enjoyed it. I think the difference, though, is that with those fault cut scenes, like those were done within Unreal Engine, but they were done within a video editor of Unreal Engine, where you can specifically create cinematic intros and stuff like that. Whereas the predecessor launch trailer seemed to me like it was done in spectator mode of predecessor. Yep, I completely agree. It was just regular gameplay. They just, you know, zoomed in on certain aspects of it. If that is their spectator mode, then that's amazing. These are spectator modes going to be really good. But I mean, yeah, but I don't think I don't think their spectator modes allows gadget to look up and see that there's a rock about to fall on her head. You know, like there's more to it. So that's why, like I said, it kind of brought the characters to life. That's what I enjoyed about it. She doesn't look up, though. She does her stun animation just from the camera looking straight up at her face. Yeah. OK, I think for me, this trailer, it's really great if it came out seven years ago. That's what a lot of people have been saying, you know, really dated in its design. Right. I wouldn't say that the trailer in inherently is bad, but it's just old. It's not exciting. I mean, especially when you're comparing and we'll talk about this later. When you compare, for instance, the either final beta test trailer for overprime or their early access trailer for overprime compared to this, there's a lot more of that newer, fresh feeling in the overprime trailer. Whereas the predecessor ones just very we have either a locked off shot or a panning shot showing people hitting each other. All right. And it's not it's definitively not gameplay because no gameplay is going to have steel and grucks standing in the same exact spot, just pounding each other in the lane, not running around, not trying to dodge, not trying to do anything like that. And I think that's where the trailer falls apart for me is that it's just really basic. It's not. Yes, Kalari runs in from the side and goes invisible. But the grucks and steel fight is literally them standing in the same position, just throwing basic attacks at each other. The camera just slightly panning as it does. So it's just really rudimentary. We saw better things out of fault and fault certainly didn't have twenty two million dollars to create these trailers from. And I'm not even talking about one up. I'm talking about like the crunch trailer, for instance, or the free to play trailer, right? These were trailers that did a lot more, made it more exciting. Nothing about the Pred trailer got me excited to play the game. It was like, oh, OK, that's kind of cool. And then that was it. Yeah, I think I mean, it did its job, though. With predecessor, it seems that they don't have to do as much as the other companies to hype people up because people are just straight up hyped for predecessor. Yeah, I would agree. Yep. No, I liked it and I didn't think it was game play anyways from it. I mean, I don't know. You say that it's from the spectator mode, which makes I don't know that for sure. I don't know that for sure. And that's what I think that's where I don't know if it can be from that because the fact that it's like when you see rampage jump in the in the river and then the huge splash when it brings the rock down, is that actually going to happen? Because if that happens in game, that's going to be a bad ass. I don't like that's like I thought that was that was that was cool. But I don't think that's I don't know if that's game play or not. Like that's I I would bet it's so it's probably in the take recorder in Unreal Engine and there are things that you can do that basically you can expand or increase or dramaticize the elements of the thing you're recording. Right. So maybe there is a splash when you jump into the river and they just scaled it up five times to make it like really impactful when he hits it. But I doubt I doubt that that's going to be directly in the game from the footage we've seen them for the Kalari and Decker gameplay. Right. Yeah. It's going to be tough. But that right there, like the certain things, like I said, to me, like and maybe I have to go back and watch it and say like it literally seemed like Gadget was like, oh, shit, I'm going to get a rock dropped on my head. That's what it felt like was happening in the video when I watched it. And then you had the the engagement when Narbash stunks Murdoch and Murdoch drops to his knee and then Richter pulls in, but I think it was Sparrow at that time and then Sparrow dies and then they're like, oh, shit. Let me like I'm done here. I'm like, I'm not going to be here. And then Murdoch from his knee does the snipe. And it's like, oh, wait a minute. That's pretty cool. That's a nice, like he was thunk. He his his his stun animation is going to his knee. And he said, well, I'm already in this position. Let me pull out a snipe. So I thought that Narbash team, I agree with you. I think was way more well done in that because it showed his face like. Can you hear me? No. And we lose bearded. Hello. He can't hear us. Hello. Hello. Bearded. Bearded. Oh, he didn't he didn't charge his headset. There we go. No, it's charged. Oh, I shut it off and turned it back on. Why? Sorry, guys. So that Narbash scene, I think it actually does show a lot of that better reaction stuff that we saw out of the one up for fault of because you see his face like flying as he turns really quickly and like his panic in his eyes as he's running. I think that scene is really, really well done. They the and this may be personal taste. The consistent racking of the focus of the camera. Every time there's a different scene change that they're like, focus here. No, focus here. No, focus here. It's like, stop, please, God doesn't keep the focus in one position. I don't need you to change it 500 times in the same scene. Please, please, just someone got a little too trigger happy with the focus changing throughout all of these scenes when they looked at that setting and unreal all in all. I think I mean, it's it's a decent trailer. It's not bad by any means. Like, it's not like I don't think the trailer is bad. I think it's a good trailer. And then the most important part is the information that it relays is that the early access is December 1st. And this is a lot more than we've gotten out of them for for a while. They have been popping off a little bit with the information. But yeah, I'm just I'm happy to see it. I'm happy if that if that is spectator mode gameplay, then it's really fucking smooth the very good gameplay. And if there are like splashes like you were talking about, then yeah, 100 percent, that's that's fucking cool. And that's gives me something to think about. Maybe I'll be a little more excited for this trailer than that I originally thought. But let's move on to the the RGSA's announcement that they made. They had they talked about through a lot of things. Predecessor related with this with the launch, they talked about their their early access pricing. The packages that you get, what will be with the game and what will not be with the game. Jelly, what were your opinions on the RGSA trailer? OK, so I'm going to say this and I'm going to get probably pretty heated about this this trailer, but also for all of you people that are thinking that I'm just shitting on Prede and I am an overprime stand, wait for what I have to say about overprime later on, too, because it's I'm not stoked necessarily with them either. But I hated 90 percent of this trailer. I think it was a slap in the face to the community. I think it shows that they're not ready for early access by any stretch of the imagination, but they're being held to their own promise by their community that they said early access would come out this year, but they have none of the systems that are implemented. So for if you guys have not watched that trailer, there will not be hero progression, account progression or a store in the game at early access. It will basically be you can click play and play the game or profile, sorry, you can click the game, play and play the game. And then that's every interaction you're allowed to have with the game is just playing it, which on one hand, I think. Is good in concept, right? In that, like, go in, play the game. But at the same time, what is that? If not just a beta test or a alpha test? Because you don't have any of the things of an actual live service game. You don't have any of the elements that I can I theoretically with no profile, I can't go back and look at match history. I can't look at my stats. I can't look at my hero play time. I have no progression on my any of my heroes that I'm playing with. I have no account progression. So I'm not earning rewards for that. They other thing that they've announced in this is that they're giving people currency dependent and the level of currency is determined by which tier they buy for early access and you can't spend that currency theoretically because there's no store to spend it in. So it's it's a weird way to push out a game and try and get people excited without 90 percent of the other systems aside from the gameplay itself. Peter, what are your thoughts when it comes to the currency? Well, my first initial thoughts is I'm not. I don't know. I was I always thought I was going into paid early access. Anyways, I've sold the being, you know, being a paid. I'm OK with that. That's no big deal. I'm not that person that's like against paying for a free game. You know, so no big deal there. But the currency that you were talking about, I get what you're talking about, because when the certain levels you buy, the more currency you in game currency you get. I see it similar to something is like you buy this now and we're going to help you with that. It's the same thing. And I'm not trying to throw them in the book, but the the Patreon thing that you have for ethereal, if you go into ethereal, I I'm now built so far up that I now have I have in game currency for ethereal when it when it drops or whatever. So like when the free to play or when the store opens for predecessor, you have the in game currency like you're going to have that ready and you're going to go. So just because you're spending money on you're getting that currency and there's no shop for it just now, it doesn't mean that you're not going to be able to use it later on. I don't think that that's the same equivalency because ethereal is not going to be actively playable when you have that currency in your hand, right? You're going to be what we're going to see with predecessor is predecessor is going to come out theoretically, maybe in the game. Who knows, depending on what level of done it is, I'm going to see my currency in the game and have literally no way to spend it. Right. When for ethereal in that case, when people get into the game, they will see their currency and they will have a store to spend it in. It won't be that I'm paid for something I can't use. The only difference is that they're giving me the chance to play it. I don't get the chance to play ethereal right now, but I have if I have a currency in ethereal, I have it because I've already spent enough in ethereal for the Patreon. I have currency in ethereal, but I can't. I don't have the chance to spend it. I don't have the chance to play it. I at least have the chance to play predecessor right now. I don't have currency. I have I'll have currency to spend, but I'll have the chance to play it. There's like, so you're you're getting something out of it. You just have to wait for the store to open. Well, then that's saying that every Kickstarter is then that you're doing that same concept. That's just because you're and I'm saying I don't have an issue with it. Again, I literally, but I don't think they're going to get a little bit of an aspect of the imagination. I I'm OK. I have the as long as I have the ability at some time to use the currency that I paid for, I'm OK with it. Why are you paying for it, though? If it's going to be you have the currency, right? It's it's telling you here's five dollars. You can't spend that five dollars anywhere. You just get to hold on to it and keep it nice. That doesn't make any sense. And you just can't. No, no, no, no, no, you don't. You do when the game drops, you do not. Right. When I actually give you when I give you the five dollars for ethereal, you're going to actually be able to spend it. I have the money for it. I already it's mine. I already gave you the money for ethereal. It's mine. I have the currency. I have it no matter what. I don't have the ability to play ethereal. I have the ability to spend the money ethereal. I when I pay for a predecessor, I'll have the money for it. And I'll have to be able to play the game. So I at least get the chance to play the game. But I don't have the I don't I can't spend the money. That's where it's at. I don't I don't have an issue with it in any way. Why is there not a fear where you can play the game without getting any currency? OK, that's that's another issue. If you want to do that, that's fine. That that that's an argument if you want to have that fine. You can have it with no currency. Like that's that's the thing they're telling you that. And that's where I think the difference is for me between the ethereal reference you're making and predecessor here is that we have the option. You can have the game. You don't have to get any currency. You don't have to do anything when the game drops. You just have the game done. Predecessor is saying that the value in what you're paying for is for a system you can't use. But you can't it's not like that. It's not like they like, hey, we don't even know if we're going to have a shop sometime, but here have a currency. They the shop is going to be there. It's going to happen. Like you're going to be able to have something to spend it on. But they're telling you to pay for it now. They're basically telling you you pay for the shop so that we can work on it. So then you can spend the money on it. If you want to wait and not and wait until it's free, then you can wait till it's free. You don't have to buy into this. But the point is you can't get access to the game without being given something you can't use. You can use it eventually. It's not like it's not an event. It's an event. Why isn't it in the game now? I think we can all I don't I can't make it. I'm not. But I'm just saying I don't have an issue with it. Then I don't think it's enough. It's enough to be like, oh, my gosh, I'm buying something I can't spend right away like breaking up the popcorn. So I mean, so bearded doesn't have an issue with it. Personally, I think it's confusing as fuck. I don't know. I really don't understand why you would be given. In game currency that you can't use when the game launches. I can understand it. I can 100 percent be confusing. You're going to get people to join it. They're going to jump in like, hey, I have a game currency. You're going to watch it. You'll see discord. People are going to be like, why can't I spend the money? Why can't I spend the money? They're not going to because they're not not. Everybody's going to watch the little clip that we're talking about. Not everybody's going to pay attention to the announcements in discord. And I present announcements in Twitter. So there's people who are going to be confused as fuck. I 100 percent agree is going to be confused as fuck. I'm just saying, I know what's going on and I'm not bothered by it. OK, that's fine. I am bothered by it. What it says to me. Here's why I'm bothered by it for the main reason I'm bothered by it. It says to me that they set up this system before they decided to do EA because I don't understand any other reason why you would offer in game currency as part of your package. When if you knew that you weren't going to have a store, like, why would you ever do that? That seems so bizarre to me. Maybe that is the decision they made. Maybe they knew up front that they were not going to have an in game store. And they were like, well, we'll just put currency on there anyway, because they can eventually use it. That's just very strange to me just in general. But I will say. As far as the missing programs and the missing game features and everything, I think probably the the the best case scenario it was brought up in the comments of the video I did was that maybe this is because they migrated to Unreal Engine 5 and then that will pay off later, that will pay dividends later. Maybe that's why they were so delayed. But in my mind, if if the migration to Unreal Engine 5. Set them back on gameplay features, very standard gameplay features that I think as gamers, we've come to expect with any sort of early access release. I know it's early access. I know it's testing and all that. But we've come to expect certain things from an early access, especially one that you pay for. And I think it they should have just delayed the the the early access. If they weren't going to have these features, then why release early access in this current state? Of course, we don't really know what the state is. We won't know until December 1st, but we do know that they're not going to have. And this is another thing, too. I never really thought of account level and in hero level progression as an important factor until fault. While predecessor was having a beta test, I played a few games of Decker in fault instead of predecessor because I wanted to get her gold skin. Like hero progression and progression systems are very important for player retention. If there's no reason for it to keep a player coming back to the game other than the game being fun, which I think the game will be fun. But I don't think fun is going to be enough that you need something to keep people coming back and investing time into the game. And even even a profile is is like that. It's a system that's important. That is not necessarily progression or anything like that, right? That it's not something you're you're necessarily increasing. But it's a way to look back at what you've been doing. It's a way to look at like so I'll use overprimes as an example, because they're just what we have most recently is you go to your profile and you can see like, excuse me, you can see that like I've played casters more than I've played assassins or I've played 50 games total and I've won 30 of them or I've played Kalari for six hours. Right. Like it's just it's a cool stat metric that I can look at to reference and be like, yeah, I guess I'm a Kalari main because I've been playing Kalari for eight hours and everyone else for two or less. Right. It's a little thing that keeps interaction inside of your game when the only interaction in your game you have is hitting play and playing the game, there is definitely going to be people that just go like, OK, well, I played my one game. I'm out. Right. Whereas like if I look at my profile, it can incentivize me to go back into another game or to play another round or whatever it may be because I'm seeing like, you know what, I went seven and seven that game. But I think I can push it and go like 10 and zero my next game and by looking at match history and all of that's inside the profile. And that's that's a really core feature even outside of the progression systems itself. And I think that's I said it in man, you said it too, is it feels like they just should have delayed early access. If they're missing core systems, right, this is just an extended beta test from what we've seen in the past of them. There is even further nothing added from those tests previous. I don't know. It seems like they're staking the entire future of predecessor on the core gameplay, which is not a bad bet for them because they do have fantastic core gameplay. Nobody is out here saying that predecessor ain't worth the money. Predecessor is worth the buy in. It's just the additional features that they included with that buy in. I think should have just been removed because they're confusing this block and they they make like, why would you have the currency in the skins? Why do they not have skins for the pair? For the pair of gunners, all the skins that they have are just recolors of unreleased, of will either released epic assets or unreleased epic assets. And I said it, my video fault gave you more than that. Like everybody's shit on fault for having a paid early access, which was about the same pricing as this prede early access. But fault actually gave you a lot more. What fault did not give you was all the heroes were free. Every tier of the prede package gives you all the heroes, well, 25 euros for free. We don't know about in the future after this expires. But but but fault definitely gave you more bang for your buck. They gave you currency that you can use upfront to buy skins that they had created themselves and would be a completely new skin that you never got to use in Paragon. And that is not what you're getting from predecessor. And I think it should also be mentioned fault. Did this two years ago, maybe fault wasn't successful. Maybe they but predecessor needs to learn from fault. Faults early access fucked them over so hard. Them having such a poor early release doomed that game from the beginning. People just did not come back to it. And if if people are coming in expecting a full game from Fred, because like you said, bearded people don't listen to this stuff. So they don't look and they don't they're not going to they're not going to come into predecessor knowing that a lot of core game features are not there. They're just going to buy it, play it and be like, why the fuck do I not have a profile? Why don't I have account level progression? What and why can't I use this currency? Like that's the questions that a majority of the community is going to be asking for. Not my community, because you motherfuckers are smart, but. Right. Yeah, that's why I show you up here and learning all the information. Yeah, exactly. Another big gripe for me is not even necessarily the twenty the twenty dollar tier. So the tiers for the first two weeks are ten dollars, twenty five dollars and forty dollars. That's the buy in prices that you have after two weeks, that they double effectively. So it goes to twenty dollars, fifty dollars and eighty dollars. The twenty dollar pack, twenty dollars is a standard early access entrance price. Right. So fine. Get the game and get these accoutrements that I'm going to either be able to use immediately or have to wait. Who knows how long for them to get added. The fifty dollar and eighty dollar packs are not worth fifty dollars and eighty dollars in the slightest. And I think that's the thing that bothers me the most is that they know they have a fan base that will pay for the eighty dollar pack for the sake of saying that they paid for the eighty dollar pack and the value in there is just not there. You're getting the same amount of heroes as everybody else. You're getting probably a slightly different profile icon, but a profile icon or a profile system that doesn't exist. You're getting currency you can't use. You're getting epic asset release skins that have been recolored that take five minutes to do. Like it's just it's really not. I don't see eighty dollars coming out of that. That makes sense in the slightest. How I'm getting my money's worth from that deal. And for the amount of time they push and they talk about we got twenty two million dollars in funding to this to come out is just a giant slap in the face. I want to acknowledge real quick a comment that was made in chat that it sounds like I'm saying that I would rather have nothing than potentially something what I want is the is the success for a predecessor and the success of all of these games. And I think for that success, it would be better for them to not offer that currency off the rip for these packages for a currency that people are going to get in and be very confused as to why they can't use and they're going to be putting that in steam comments and rating rating it on steam. Yes, I would rather have potentially something than nothing, but I would rather that they have included nothing. I think that would be better for the health of the game overall. And I want predecessor to succeed. They're creating their own headache by doing this. Yeah, a little bit. No, and I agree. I'm not like that. And just to clear up what you said, you said the icons probably different and it does show in the pictures like you. So every tier it grows, right? You have the supporter discord role. You get the support profile. Icon, right? That's if you get the $20 one, the $50 one. It's a support discord role, supporter profile icon, and you get an epic bundle profile icon. So you get the extra icon by going, you know, doing there. And then obviously the legendary bundle, the $80 one, you're getting all of that. Plus you get a legendary bundle profile icon. So that added on and then your coins increase. You get 600 coins in the $20 one, 4,000 coins in the $50 one and you get 10,000 coins in the $80 one and then your skins obviously grow as well. On the skins that you're talking about, I agree with Megus. I wasn't happy to see that it was literally just the either unreleased or recolors of ones that we've already had. Like that, the Murdoch one in here. That's just a different color yellow that what Paragon the Overprime is using right now. Yep, that's all that is. And that kind of annoyed me. I'm like, what? Especially when this is the team that came out with the Jailor Murdoch skin. Why isn't the Jailor Murdoch skin on here? That's one of the released skins, I think. That was mentioned in the comments in that we saw years ago. Why is that not in this list? That Jailor Murdoch was really cool. From what I've never been able to confirm this, I heard that it caused bugs in the game is why they took it out. Because it was in their first beta test, the Jailor Murdoch skin. It was a really good, it was a good looking skin. I really liked that skin. So Fred, Fred is very capable of making skins. I wanted that. That's the one I'm like, oh man, like I can't. I made one of my one of my YouTube thumbnails off of that skin. I'm like, dude, let's go. So I was a little disheartened when I saw that. Like, you know, the other skins, you know, I don't know. I look at, I don't recognize the Muriel skin at all. I don't know if that might be an unreleased one that is maybe why I don't recognize it. But the Muriel skin, that one was definitely different to me. I know the Crunch one. That's an unreleased skin, if I understand it correctly. Yeah, Fault had that skin. But the other ones are definitely just, you know, recolors. Yeah. I do want to talk about a monarch, just had a comment in there. I'm curious if the actual planned price is $40 and they're advertising it as 80, but discounted 50%. That kind of marketing is, I'm pretty sure, illegal in Australia and New Zealand. That kind of marketing, if it was a permanent discount, where they advertise it as always 50% off, is illegal in a huge chunk of the world. But because this is a limited time offer, it is just a regular flat discount. It is not fall under those illegality laws based on what I understand at least from that stuff. And I would 100% have zero problem with them having to pay early access. And I will be happy to pay for a version of the game. But, well, let's move on, let's talk about Huntress. They teased Huntress. We've seen her before. We've seen pictures of her and we got to see a little bit of her kit. Obviously, if you look at the video, she's unrefined in comparison to their other heroes. That's the hallmark of predecessor. Their animations are so fucking smooth. It was a little jarring to see her animations whenever you're so used to the really smooth animations that predecessor has been able to impart to their heroes. So, first original hero, the first IP coming out of Omega Studios as Huntress, what did you guys think of her? Well, for me, I'm not well versed in a lot of these MOBAs as you guys are, but I did see you reference another character, they're a man goose. So, I can understand the heartbreak a lot of people may have with that. As an ADC main, I'm interested, I'm excited. Her ultimate that it looked like, it looks confusing me and hard to hit. Like, I watched a bullet, she spins around, I think, and then she just shoots. If you stand perfectly in a spot where she's not gonna shoot, does that person not get hit or does everybody in the AOE get affected even though the bullet doesn't show that it hits them? I'm confused on how that works. I don't know what's going on there. And I think that's where clarity in visual effects and animation just fell apart on that video. Is that that ultimate? It looks like with the AOE, it looks like everyone inside should be taking damage. But that visual effect in the way she was spinning was kind of like random shot over here, random shot over there, random shot over there. It just did not feel that way looking at her used the ability. Yeah, and that's exactly how I'm like, ooh, that doesn't look like it's even fun to use. Like, I'm like, I don't know about that one. Let's hope it gets better than that. Or just hopefully everybody just takes it. If you're playing or hopefully everybody takes the effect of damage that it's supposed to take, but I'm like, I don't know. Didn't look fun. So hopefully they refine that for sure. I will say, I'm trying to give them a little bit of a compliment sandwich. I do love if you slow down the footage and watch whenever she does her dash forward. She actually turns into a raven for a second. Yeah. Oh, which is fucking bad ass. Cool. I will get that little dash that she did and send it into the raven. Super cool. My biggest problem with her, as I've said in my video, she's just she's just Vala from Here's of the Storm. If you've never played Here's of the Storm, Vala has that ultimate where she spins and just fires in all directions. Just keeps spinning it. A lot of people have been comparing it to Reaper. I think it's far more like Vala. She'll watch you up. That makes sense. But it Vala also has a quick shadow dash and she has this ultimate where she spins and fires in all directions. Vala has two hand crossbows instead of a pistol and a crossbow, but she has the exact same aesthetics, the hood and she's Vala is a demon hunter. Like what my problem is, is this is Omeda's first shot to let us know how creative they are with their own original intellectual property and to let us know what they can do and to show their stuff. And instead we get an almost one for one bounce back to Vala from Here's of the Storm. Even two of her abilities that we know of, if she hits and she has like a multi-shot spread on one ability and a puncturing arrow on the other ability, I'm gonna be like, what the fuck guys? I think it's another case where we're seeing pred respond to what we're seeing out of overprime. That overprime had Xena released this week. They're first. I was underwhelmed by that too, by the way, but. Say again? I was underwhelmed by her as well as far as I know it. We'll talk about that more in depth in a minute. But I think it's another case of we see overprime do something, predecessor feels like they have to do the same thing in response. We see overprime do something, they feel like they have to do something in response. And that goes back to the other direction as well. That predecessor does something and then we see an overprime response, 100%. But it feels like they had a new character come out. And so now while we should talk about the character we've already kind of teased once before, it just feels like a response back and forth between the two and they need to stop doing that because it just is going to feel that way more and more to the detriment of both of them. I see your point, but I mean, when it comes down to like, I keep on making this comparison with these pair of zombies even when, especially when fault was out, right? You got Dodge, you got Ford and you got Chevy, right? And you look at all their trucks, they all look the same. Like they're all competing against each other. Like that's like, literally if Ford makes a change to their truck, eventually you're going to see Chevy and Dodge make that similar change, you know, with the little twists they have on their own. And that's just how the world is with competition. When you have something that's there, you have to stay within that, you know, competition. So I understand what you're saying, but I also get from either side of these points that they just kind of have to keep up with the competition. Like you have to show that you're doing something similar because you saw the uproar that people went with Adele, right? That's the first one they released and they talked about coming out with it. When they announced that they're going to have their own IP, all right, these other ones have to follow. We talked about it with fault. Like fault, you need to announce your own IP coming up and that just never happened, you know? And look where they're at, you know? But then predecessor does, it did and they're still in the fight, you know? You almost, if they didn't, would they not be in the fight? I think they still would because their gameplay is that good. But you know, would they have, we talked earlier about how no matter what, their fan base is going to be hyped no matter what, even though we thought that it looked something like seven years ago with their hype trailer, right? It wasn't as updated as possible, but they still get hype out of it. Yeah. Like, that's the thing with them is I think they just need to keep doing that. So them staying in the fight, I think it's the biggest thing for them. I agree with Bearded on this one, 100%. Like the back and forth does kind of suck, but I think they need to. They need to observe their competition and try and match their competition or they're just going to get left behind. By that means I don't disagree in the slightest. It's when you have three days difference between the two announcements that then it starts to feel like you're just responding to it. You're not innovating on it. And that's where I think the key difference is when you look at Dodge Chevy and Ford, right? Those three, they're not going to come back and say like, oh, will they put a spoiler on the back of their car? We're putting a spoiler on the back of ours. Right? They're not what they're going to say. They're going to come out and say like, yes, we saw Ford put a spoiler on the back of their car, but guess what? Our spoiler comes with cup holders. Right? It's not going to be a one for one. Like we're just responding because we feel like we have to respond. It's a firm marketing tactic. You have to be able to add the same thing, but bring something else to the table for your consumer base to say why you're more important or why yours matters more. The, I almost said Vala. The Huntress response to Zina coming out is not that in any way, shape or form. The response of when Paragon, the overprime announced their name change and predecessor put out a information thing right at the end thereafter is not doing that same thing. It's playing catch up. It's not innovating on the process that's been determined by the community for someone else's game. That is a competition for yours. Right? I have a question real quick, specifically for Leonardo Bastos, because I know he is a hots fan just like me. Would you rather she have this ultimate or the reign of vengeance ultimate? Because I would prefer reign of vengeance personally. I'm on Hunter's Day. It was just a, he had charges that it was just a straight line stun in an AOE. Yeah. Go ahead, bearded. With Huntress and how was she, you guys are saying like, I don't know who Vala is, right? I play Hots like maybe three times with Mangers and that's it. Other than that, I'm not like, I have no clue, right? So if she is that like literally like mirror image of her, I think that's an issue for me, right? I understand that we have League of Legends, we got Dota, we got Hots, we got all these games, Smite, we got all these games out here that are literally making, and there's only so much you can do, right? There's only so much creativity we have, but to do a one-for-one, like, you know, mirror image of something is wrong. I think you need to go more of like the ethereal effect when you have Dante, right? Dante is like a twin blast mixed with Murdoch, you know, and there's somebody else in there, I can't think of who it is, but there's a little mixture in there like you're not using, it's not just one-for-one twin blast, right? You have the dual pistols like twin blast, you have the speed charge like twin blast, you also have the Murdoch ultimate, you know, there's little things that you just grab something from Vala if that's what you wanted, you know, like, all right, we want Vala's alt, we'll give Vala's alt, we'll put her in here, all right, now we want Sparrow's pierce, all right, we'll put Sparrow's pierce in here, something, you know, a little something a little different, but obviously you don't want to use Sparrow because you use Sparrow's in this game, but grab something from a couple of different characters and put them in, put it together, you know, Frankenstein, instead of making it just a one-for-one. 100%, and change up the design, right? Like, why are you even following the lore basis of a character that you're very much mimicking at the same time, right? Like, Dante is neither like twin blast nor Murdoch in terms of design, like visual design and or lore design at the end of the day, though he does share a lot of similarities with both of those kit designs, right? Find ways to mix it up, don't just, don't make it look like you really obviously copied someone's homework, like it's just, it feels that blatant so far from what we've seen of Huntress. It feels like Rolling Stones announced a new song and then it's a fucking cover when it comes out. Yep, it's a cover, yeah, there you go. Speaking of lore though, as a Terra fan, like, she's got a beef, she's got beef accountants, like, Huntress has beef accountants, like, wait a minute, are we, and I get, you're a vampire, you can piss off a bunch of people. I mean, how is Huntress and Terra now gonna coincide together? Like, that's like, like, we, like, I wanna see, I'm not saying it can't happen, but I wanna see how those now stories intertwine and if they are gonna intertwine, because how's that gonna work? Because again, you've already had the lore, and I guess technically they're not, they don't, but I almost think they have to keep Paragon's lore, right? Cause that's, that's predecessor's thing is they wanna be pre-Paragon, right? So they're using the same characters, are they, they're gonna wanna have something similar with lore, right? Like, I would think that you wouldn't wanna keep that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why it's called, if you guys didn't know, that's why it's called predecessor. It is in the timeline of Agora or whatever you wanna call it, it is set to have happened before Paragon. So let's start wrapping it up with predecessor cause we got, we got a tournament to cast later and we still got two games to cover here. I will say that, like I said, predecessor is staking a lot on their core gameplay and it's because they have excellent core gameplay. I think all three of us can agree that in the beta test that we've played, predecessor has been fucking phenomenal, very intuitive targeting, very, very few bugs. It's just been a really great game and I have zero problem paying for it. I just don't like the way they did their packages. But now let's move on to over Prime. So over Prime also announced, I need to move this over a little bit. Oh, but, there we go. Over Prime also announced that they're doing early access but their early access will be December 8th which a lot of us kind of knew because they love putting little fucking Easter eggs in their videos and stuff. And they put like a UPC code that translated into December 8th, 2022 into a video like a month ago or some shit. I don't know. I can't follow that shit. I'll let everybody else tell me what they did. Right. But so the things they've released this week has been their early access launch trailer and the date. The Xena launch trailer and Xena and then their final beta test is continuing but it's going to be closing down fairly soon. Won't be long though till we get to play predecessor and then it won't be long then we get to play over Prime. So it's pretty awesome for all of us Paragon fans right now but... Yeah, it's a good time for us. Bearden, what did you think of over Prime's early access launch trailer? To be honest with you, I didn't even see the launch trailer. Oh, okay. I've been playing the game. I've been playing like crazy and I watched the Xena launch trailer but I didn't know early access even had the launch trailer. I know they, I saw the announced and see over Prime's their announcements are different. Like they have this long range of text and you like literally trying to read what is in between all of the images they put in there and then they add everyone at the end of it. You know, it's like, okay, like, well, wait, what? All right. And I just read that I read the time. I knew December 8th. All right, early access coming to December 8th. So I knew when it was come, I didn't actually see the trailer. So I got the important info out of it. Exactly. I got what I needed out of it. You read the one line that everybody reads and then moved on. Yeah, I'm that guy in the situation. But again, I didn't know it was even there and I'm not seeing other people post it as well. So I usually, oh, I watched this, right? I watched the Xena trailer. I knew that was there. So I don't know, it just, it was different. And it's a little more, and I think that's more of that. I could be wrong, but I think that more of that translation, you know, you're going from, you know, it's that language barrier. So you're like, you're trying to transfer everything over to English and it's like, I'm reading it, but like, I don't know, maybe in, in Korea, and I can, you know, I would understand, oh yeah, trailer, let me click on this, you know. I don't know. But it's definitely harder to understand. I think the problem with that announcement, and I just looked to make sure, and the same problem I had with predecessor's announcement on Discord, both of them linked the video, but neither they both made sure it wouldn't pop up as part of an image in the actual message itself. So you can set the description when you're typing out the message to include the link, but not have a pop up for it. And both of them did that. Why? Exactly. Like this is your biggest thing that you're renouncing. Why is the biggest part of it? The thing I can't, I have to do an extra step to see. Like I shouldn't have to read the whole message. And I realized they want people to read the message. That's probably why they're doing it, is you need to read this, and if you read this, then you'll see the cool thing. But people don't read. If there's one thing I've learned working with the theory of an announcement is people don't read. So I get that ability of being able to, to, so it doesn't show that, like, especially for Gen Chat, if you, if you get asked my permission to put a link in Gen Chat, you want to put just the link, so just the link shows up and it doesn't just all sudden. Yeah. Everything, all the whole conversation we were just having is now up. You got to like, is that whole picture took up there. So I understand that. But yeah, in an announcement, 100% agree with you, that should be there because, one, your marketing person or whoever your editor worked on a thumbnail for this. So you like, show off that thumbnail, show off that work that your person's doing. Like, it's not like you're, we're showing off somebody else's, you know, stuff, like, and we just put a link in. Like, this is your work. Show off your work. Let's use it. Theoretically, for a video like that, the information you're putting in the text of that announcement is going to be the same information that's in the video itself. So if you push that video out to everybody, get the thing that they're going to click on, they see an image and they go like, yep, my monkey brain says yes. Like, click that thing, right? Then you solve the problem by itself. Neither predecessor nor overprime linked the, or actually displayed the video as part of their announcement. And I think that was a missed opportunity for both of them. 100% agree. 100% agree. I would have, I definitely would have watched the video. Like, I'm not against it. And then that's what I was saying. Coming up to this talk about overprime, close beta two. I told you guys, I was, I wasn't a fan. I hated it. He wrote brawler. I did not. I played with just to play with my friends. Other than that, like I would, I easily would have shut the game down and played fault all day. Like I had no problems playing fault over overprime. No problems at all. And, but I was like, all right, I'll play cause that's what my friends were playing right now. Cause obviously it's a limited time. We gotta take advantage of it. So I get that. Playing this, this is so much better. The way they did this, this game, I and I have a, I feel like I can actually understand the leading phase now. It's not literally just, Hey, everybody going to do a lane because that's where most people are at right now. Let's just have a huge fight, you know? And it's like, all right, like I, you can actually do that. You're still getting a lot of those fights and those fights are lasting a little bit longer. Cause like, like Magnus was saying in one of our chats we had, the time to kill is longer. So I'm, I'm okay with that. I say ADC, if you let me survive longer, I'm okay with it. You know, I can make things work, you know? I'm all about that. So I, yeah, I enjoyed the game a lot more. So it's definitely caught up to predecessor, but the game itself, like I play, I switched over, I was playing solely and I was trying to play some melee characters. I was playing Brux, I was playing Rampage and, and just the, the melee, it's clipping. Like I don't know what it is. If I'm sitting there swinging at green buff, I'm like, I'm moving over here. I'm like, what, I'm like, what's happening? Like I don't understand what I'm doing here. Like the game itself, just as an ADC is ranged hero, you can do this, right? I can sit here and shoot. I'm not clipping. I'm not bouncing back and forth every time I shoot, right? I'm fine, but melee, they got to work on that. And I'm actually surprised. And I know team solely is great. They work fast, like putting out this new map, how fast they did, they work fast. So I'm not, I'm not a hundred percent surprised, but I'm still surprised that early access is going to be as fast as it is. Like, I mean, so they put out eight characters, they put out eight characters and an entirely new map in eight months or so, which is huge, right? In terms of like just the progression of things that are happening all at once. There are tons of things they need to work on. And I, but I completely agree with you. Whatever their netcode or ping problems are, are terrible on melee characters. And I think they're applying, they don't show as much, I think on ranged characters, but I think there's still a problem in their own way. But on melee characters, the amount of times that I'm on Kalari and I'm skipping around every time I eat somebody and it doesn't know where I am. Xena, which is a whole other thing and her right click is awful for that same reason, is that you end one place and then the game two seconds later will shift you back and you're like, I okay, I guess I'm not where I thought I was. I just blew my entire kit on an empty area because the game didn't tell me for two seconds. And it's awful. The end, the, I think the test overall is a success for net, net marble and over prime. 100%, their team's only rather end over prime. 100%, I think they did a great job there. I'm amazed we haven't heard more about the G-Star event that was going on this week. Yeah, same here. But at the end of the day, whatever, including their own IP in Xena, super cool. I think that's really great. But this test has made me more frustrated about the game than I was in any of the prior ones because the bugs are rampant. Way more bugs than their last beta test. Way more bugs. Way, way more bugs. And it drives me insane because there's nothing worse. It's, I'm a big Dark Souls player. Part of the reason I play Dark Souls, even though I get frustrated, is that at the end of the day, I know that I died because of my own failings, right? If I played better, I wouldn't have died. Yes, they are really, the enemy's really strong, kill me instantly, whatever. But if I just dodged, if I just pressed the button, if I did the right thing, I would die. Then, so that's frustrating in its own right. When you die for something out of your control or when you don't get a kill for something out of your control or when you, whatever, for something out of your control, that feels a hundred times worse, right? That's why people complain about lag. That's why people complain about ping. That's why people complain about netcode, right? And all of that is so bad in this test, it's ridiculous. And why release Aurora if she's gonna be just the buggiest fucking thing that ever happened to any game ever? You see? The amount of times I've had my own Aurora, I swole over top of me and I'm stuck in that fucking I swole forever. All right, I've seen Aurora's get stuck over the goddamn place or just ice cloning too. She gets stuck. There are so many just insane bugs of the Aurora. Gideon, I tried to play him the first day. It kept getting locked into his E view. So I had this weird view of the game. Revenant doesn't always reload. There's just a ton of bugs in the game right now. And it's not even the new characters. Like you're saying, man. It's even the characters that were in the last beta test that didn't have bugs, at least that anybody noticed or that I heard about that suddenly have all these problems. On Murdock, I then, I have to like double click my Ottawa then because like my basic attack doesn't work. Like use missiles, click base tech doesn't work. Click it again. You know, I gotta re-click it. It's like, all right. Cause I'm sitting there like, all right. We're fighting prime spirit. Use my missiles on it. Why? Oh, I mean, I'm not sitting there. I'm not doing any damage. Like what's going on? And there are a ton of abilities that do that where if you're holding down left click, just basic attacking and you use an ability, you then have to let go and re-click in order to continue basic attacking afterwards. And that wasn't a problem in the last test. The portals feel terrible half of the time because you walk up to the portal, you see it go on cooldown and then you teleport across the map. And like, what the hell? Like, I don't know. It's the things that can, those situations can put you into of like, well, okay, I guess somebody got to the portal before I did. So I'm going to press this ability or I'm going to do this thing or whatever. And then you teleport two seconds later, feel awful. And it just, that is the biggest concern for me going into the early access is like, if they're going to add a whole bunch more things, are we still going to have all these problems as well? Right. That's, I thought that this, the way I understood it, the way that I hoped is that I understood it. It's not how they said or anything. The way I hoped is that like, we're going to use this final test and I brought it up to you and the other, the last four of the minions, I was in chat and I messaged like, Hey, what if they, what if they did this just because they need to prolong and they're not, and they're going to delay the early access and not make 2022 and we're like, Hey, that's fine. We can understand that. Like here we're giving you something because we're not going to, you know, here's a gift. We're sorry. We, we didn't make our time that we wanted and understandable. And I was kind of thinking that's what was going to happen because playing this game, you see these issues and you understand what's going on. And again, shout out to team solely if they grind and they put stuff out. They're able to do that. But we know with playing fault, if you introduce something new, it brings in bugs with it, with other things. It does it like, you bring in a new character and all of a sudden Decker's son doesn't work. Well, why? We don't know. But like it just, this shit happens. Like we understand that with going through fault. So that's going to happen. So you brought in eight new characters, you brought in a new map and now we're all having issues with this, with certain things, right? You bring in a new hero, Nick. And we knew when they brought in Narbash, all of a sudden he was the king shit, right? We all of a sudden Narbash is the broken part of the game. Xena is a similar situation. Xena's broken as well as a character you're going up against because she's able to just do so much to you. But there's also, there's an ability of hers that doesn't work very well. And it's like, if that's not gonna work, if your, her abilities aren't working, why don't we introduce her to the game? Like hold off on her. Let's get her, let's get her actually working. I don't, I understand. I'm at the point where I'm okay with a hero coming in and being busted. Like that's kind of like a MOBA like staple. That's just what happens. You bring in a new hero, you make them busted because now everybody wants to play. Now everybody spends money on the new hero. I get it. That's how things work. But like, I don't understand, like to come in and their, their kits not fully working. Like I didn't think that to me just doesn't, it seems rushed and doesn't, it's not needed. Like- And if, if this is the quality we're gonna get for the quantity of things we're receiving as well, I would prefer less quantity. Yeah. The scale, scale it back. Maybe only four heroes, but make the ones that you put in a lot bad. I don't agree with that. Plan for the heroes that they, what was it? It's every month, they're gonna come out with a new pair of heroes and every third month is gonna be their own IP, right? So that's, that's, that's, you know, if we're gonna have these issues when we introduce people, that's a lot of stuff that's going on. I get, I just thought the, the early access was gonna be somewhere in January. You know, and we were gonna take this time that we learn what we learned. Cause that's one that they did with the other close beta test. They take, hey, and they take, they do a survey from the community and the community gives all this information. This is what we thought about this. And they make those changes. You did it with CBT one, you did it with CBT two. I'm thinking, all right, final beta test. We're gonna take all this information. We're gonna go silent for a little bit and we're gonna do what we need to do. And there's gonna be a community corner that's gonna come out and it's gonna say, hey, this is what we're gonna do. We're coming out in 2023, early access, stay tuned. That's what I thought was gonna happen. There's definitely an amount of, granted it's in three weeks is December 8th when they're gonna release their early access, right? That if they put out an entire map and eight new characters in the last eight months, bug fixing theoretically at that speed should not take very long. Right. They're just gonna go in there and they're just gonna pound out bugs, maybe add one more character, two more characters for early access and then just call it a day. And if they do that, I think that is very, very valuable to them. Daz and Chad is saying that he's not having these problems on the Southeast Asia servers that he's playing in Australia. Maybe it's just a US server issue. I don't know, I would love to hear that. I would love to hear that. I've heard you have any problem at least. Yeah. Cause we talked about people in the tournament yesterday were talking about that they were having the same issues, Mangus. Oh yeah. Server problems. So at least US and EU, but maybe, yeah, maybe it's just those two servers that are having more. I do know that, cause we were doing a creator's unite thing. Me, Wendu, Menace, Pinso, Dunzo and J-Py. Pinso announced, he's a West Coast guy. He said that he has a worse time on the US servers than he does on the Asia servers, but he still has bad. He's still, the Melee issue is still an issue even on the Asia servers that he has with that. So. There's something else I wanna mention. CIG says, that's why I prefer Pred. I would say that Pred has its own issues in this regard, not with the bugs, but if the quality we're getting for the quantity from Pred is one hero versus eight heroes, I think they both can come to the middle ground. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They need to beat in the middle. But have the quality that's there. I don't think Pred just wins in that category because they've released two heroes in the last eight months. Getting back to Xena, I thought she was fairly balanced. I didn't think she was all that broken to be honest, but that's just subjective opinion. My problem with her is much like with, what I said about Pred is a certain huntress. This is their chance to shine and bring us original content. And Xena is barely bland. It's not that she's fairly bland. It's that they've teased Xena. They've teased Adele. They've teased Rena. All three are tiny little cute girls. Now, I have nothing wrong cute girls in a video game, but also like a big fat fucking drummer boy hauling ass down lane. Like I want some variations. It was brought up in chat like Luna from, here's the storm. She's like a dry edge. She's like a half deer, half human. That could be cute. Make that cute, like if you, but like add some else to it. Like, you know, you got Xena that is pretty much just another Shinbi with a bigger sword, visually speaking. And then her kit is of course, you know, a conglomeration of various other MOBA kits, which that's somewhat unavoidable, but at least with them, her appearance doesn't match all of those kits that she's mixed up with. But I don't know, that's my big problem there. There's something that people brought up several times. It's like, are we only gonna be getting cute girl, cute little Korean girls from Solif? And that's what they need to understand. I mean, cause they're not only marketing to the Asian market, right? Like, and you're, you have these three cute Asian girls that are gonna be released here soon, right? We have ones already out here. We're gonna get Adele and the Ray or whatever name was. That's fine, you know, but yeah, we've changed something up. But also like, you didn't need to change Dekker to look Asian. Like you didn't need to change. Like you also have other, you already have the Asian changes that you made. Like you don't need to, this wasn't something that was needed to be done. Like you have other markets that you're a marketing for. Like it's not, everybody's like, all right, cute Asian girl, that's what I want. Like that's not for everybody, you know? So market for everything else too, like and include that. Like I get you're a Korean team, but that's, you know, like show some love for all of them. You know? I didn't need to acknowledge Alex Brown. Thank you so much for the super chat. The super chat is, what if you could buy skins in Pred while looking at characters in a character menu instead of a store so you could spend the currency? That would be ideal. I would 100% love that. But I think by them saying that they don't have a store is them saying that they don't have a way to spend the currency or that they're going to have any kind of in-game currency. If that ends up- We don't want to purchase items. But I mean, if they're releasing skins with this, then you would think that there would be a way to change skins. So maybe that would be cool if skins were somewhat purchasable. We don't know what the final state's going to look like for overprime. We talked about this a little bit last week. There is no official store in overprime. The loot boxes are not present in this final beta test. Again, we don't know what it's going to look like in the final test, but the way you purchase skins in the current test is that same way. You go to the hero menu, you open that hero, and you go to the skin and say, I want that skin. So to me, that's a store still. I agree with you, Mangus, that by saying you're not going to have a store, you're not going to have a way to purchase things is the way that I take that, not necessarily a tab on the thing that says store. Right? Let's go, let's talk about that real quick, because the first thing I got to say, overprime, fix your shit so I can have an open window, like a borderless window mode or whatever. I literally, you click on it, and I am stuck inside the game. I have to alt-tab to use all my other screens, and I can't stand it. Really? I literally have it on the correct mode that I need to have it on, right? Full, the... Borderless window. I'm stuck. I'm stuck in there. I'm like, all right, alt-tab, as a streamer, I have my monitors. I have to use all the monitors. I need to go over here and there, but it sucks that I'm trapped in there and I can't stand it, so that's gotta be fixed. You got ice-walled into the game? Yeah, right there. So, but with the, you, I literally had no clue. I'm like, how do I, I know there's skins for this game. How do I get to this? I clicked on the hero menu, I'm like, all right. Like, how do I get to the skin? What's going on here? That UI needs to get changed or fixed because like, if it wasn't for me, not everybody's got friends. I'm one that have like a very, like a handful, that's about it, of friends. Like, so I luckily, one of those handfuls were like, oh, yeah, I clicked on the hero. Yeah, double click on it. I'm like, oh, what? So I double click, I'm like, oh, this is different. Like, yeah, give us tabs. You know, like, all right. Definitely unintuitive. Yeah, definitely. I'm like, what is this? I'm like, yeah, that was bad in my opinion. Even if you don't want to create a store tab, create a skins tab that I can go to. Yeah, all right. Like, at least have some direction of where I'm trying to go for this. You guys have to experience me. Oh, how do I even set this banner to be an old man man goose? How do you even buy these skins? I do want to quickly address the cute Korean girl additions. And I said this, I think it was last week. They also can stagger that feeling of cute Korean girls with the Paragon heroes. Because they're doing two Paragon heroes for every original, they can do Grim and they can do Boris and then cute Korean girl, right? And then like, they can Bukong and Tara and then cute Korean girl. Like, they can break up that a little bit before they have to start doing it themselves if they really want to by putting those Paragon heroes separated. Tara's going to come out as a, you know, a freaking cute Korean girl and giant armor. She's going to be a sumo wrestler because that's the Asian market. Like, that's what she's going to come out as. Like, why, that's not going to change that. Like, unless they get away from changing the looks of character. Like, man goose's video on honest here review for how it's like, how do you make this guy look? He's a badass, you know, he's fucking smoking cigar or whatever. He's badass. You know, he's got, he definitely looks ruffled up. Now he's just cute furry little thing. It's like, what the fuck is that? Like, like there's, you don't need to change this. Like that, these are changes that aren't needed. Like you, your own IP is your own IP. But like, we're all here because we're all Paragon fans. Like, these are our characters. And he's like, he's supposed to be this huge, like this badass fucking guy driving a mech. And he's now he's just this cute little furry thing. It's like something my daughter wants as a stuffed animal now. Like, I'm not trying to sell my daughter as a stuffed animal. Alex Brown, no worries. Like Swiftix said, I think Meg is what mind you, being off topic in the future. That's funny. Yeah, I don't know, man. It's yet to be seen. We're going to see early. I think Adele is going to be in early access though. Do you think that they're just going to leave it as, man, I don't know. Oh no, but overprop definitely has his problems. The fifth hero they release. What if she's not? That'd be so weird. Could you imagine that? Like, she was the first one they were like announcing. I was so surprised to see Xena come out before Adele. It would tell me they encountered some kind of catastrophic failure. Her model exploded when they put it in the game. Her abilities didn't work. Something bad happened. It was a likeness to a person that then sued them for everything they were worth. I don't know what it was. If she's not next in line, or at least talked about soon, I feel like something catastrophic happened to Adele because she's removed off of all their marketing stuff too. She's not present anymore at all. Lucas Cavitea has asked this question multiple times, so I'm going to go and answer it. Why do they only have one tower in overprime? They wanted to make the game faster, so they just, they only have one tower of then the inhibitor, then the core. They just made that first tower a little bit stronger to compensate. I guess that's the reasoning. Paper. Yeah, by the time you get the inhibitor, you're so high in level that you could just tank that shit and fucking kill it on your own. There's problems with overprime, man. There are problems with overprime that need to be fixed. That, I want to address the next thing on my gripes with over this test in overprime. It was a gripe with the previous two tests as well. Their balance is awful. Like, it's not even before. As an ADC man, I don't know what you're talking about, but yes. Right? It's like their balance, they over and under correct everywhere they go. Shinbi went from being the most played, most broken hero in the last two closed beta tests to I've seen her maybe three times in this entire closed beta test, right? Which shows that she got lowered so far and others people got brought up so far that she's just pushed aside now at this point. And just the balance in general, the itemization balance is wildly all over the place. Crit is just absolutely insane. Melee assassins are just screwed over. Like it's just, if you don't want to play Bruiser Tank or Crit, you're out of luck. Like it's just, their balance is awful. And it just sucks to see it three beta tests in a row now. We've seen terrible balance from these guys. Oh, it allows the L that I want to address this real quick, because I feel like the game still takes like 45 minutes each though. Yeah, a hundred percent. I don't think that they're play-ins to make the game faster, length-wise. It has really worked out for them. That's another thing that they probably need to adjust. I think that has a lot to do with death timers. I think the prime changes helped that a lot. That I've seen games be like five to 10 minutes shorter on average with those prime nerfs that you can take it a little bit easier, because now it's not so detrimental to your team to go and try and take the big prime. It's still detrimental a lot of the time, but it's not as detrimental. But I think death timers, again, we've looped back around to CBT-1, where now games go really long because death timers are not long enough. Yeah, right. Yeah, the death timers are definitely a huge part. I at least haven't had the over an hour games like that I had in some of the past CBTs with these. So that's good. They were there at least. I'm okay with some of these longer games. I'm okay with a 45 minute game. I enjoy getting into a game and being able to grind out and have a good one. But there are ones that's like, man, all right, especially some of the ones that are just kind of going, like, hey, there's no reason for this to be going on the way it is. And it really comes down to, we've said it multiple times while we're streaming, it's like just like new kill, you get a pentakill and then on your last pentakill, the other person's already coming back. And it's like, wait a minute, like, what's going on here? Like I should now have time to make a play and now I can't because we're all low health because we were in the middle of a team fight. I got a pentakill. Well, not me, because I've never actually gotten one. But, you know, so the pentakill was made, but now we're all low and this one person's coming in full health and they clean us up or whatever, or get some of us out of it. Now we can't make that team play that we wanted to make. So yeah, death timers definitely need to be taken care of. And I brought this up a long time ago. Oh, go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Motherfucker. No, you go ahead. Dylan says that games are either 20 minutes or 50 and they are. Yeah. They either are complete stomps or 50 minute slogs that just come down to who started Prime and then the other team wins because like it's just, it's ridiculous. The death timers don't give you time to do anything. Even though inhibitors are paper, even though that like the lanes are shorter, they don't have that extra tower. Even though all of these things should theoretically make it faster, death timers are a prime example of the problem of the game right now. If you can't do enough every time you get three or four kills on the enemy team. Right. Yeah, I think, let me get to my point real quick because I mentioned this a long time ago about over Prime is that travel mode actually makes games longer because whenever you exit your core, you're in travel mode, which makes it much more dangerous for you to stay and fight around an inhibitor because you can't get in travel mode faster because they're gonna be flying at you in travel mode because the death timers are so short and you're not in travel mode so you're not getting away. So travel mode actually adds to game length a lot of the times, but it seems counterintuitive. But yeah. All right, the another, you know, desktop timer being too long is like your solo lane and you kill your solo laner and then all right, now I'm trying to get like, let's get the minions in a tower. By the time you get the minions killed, they're already coming back. Yeah, maybe one or two is on tower at the most and then back off. Well, dang it. Well, now I can't even do like, all right, let me get out of here because again with that fight, you lost health as well. So now you have to, you basically you're forced to reset, you know, just so you can go get health and even if you don't have enough to get items. Yeah. And I do think what, I do think we saw bad utilization of backings or death timers in the tournament yesterday, but it was still prevalent in the tournament yesterday that they would get a kill and instead of trying to push their advantage just back to base and reset and get that extra gold that they just earned and then get back into the lane. Yeah. Let me reiterate though, I don't like travel mode. I like having travel mode of the game because the pacing and the rotations and shit, I think it's cool. I just think that it does add to length of gameplay. I think the map's the size it is, you need the travel mode. Yeah. So if you put this on like the predecessor size map, like the travel mode would just be, wait like road maps would be insane. That would be insane. Yeah. Yeah. I remember real quick, I want to start with items like I, and maybe you guys can tell me all of this because I know you guys are definitely more intelligent when it comes to this than I am, but like life steal, there's only one life steal item in, what's the second life steal item? Vamp sword. There's three items that have, when you click on something, it gives you, there's an all vamp. What's all vamp? I read all vamp, I'm thinking ability vamp. Yeah. So that's what's confusing me. I click on like, so as an ADC man, I click on my, get my little mask that I can wear and that's my life steal. But the other ones are all vamp. I'm like, all right, that's ability vamp. I'm not, I'm an ADC. I'm not really using abilities to vamp, right? Like that's, that's how I understand it. So what is it between all vamp and life steal? For ADCs, you're right. There's only one, the one mask item that is built for ADCs to use. Total, there's I think two basic or two or three, like you're saying items that have the actual stat of life steal, vamp sword, I know has life steal, which is, but that's a melee basic attack character item, right? So ADCs are never going to build that. And then the other one, I don't even know what it's called. I might be able to pull it up here shortly. Oh, which is vile is one that people, which is vile is one that people often overlook. Upon ability hit, it gives you all vamp for 8%. Which you did all vamp means basic attacks and abilities. Okay. All right. So as an ADC, I could actually use it then. I didn't buy it because I wasn't going to waste how it works gold. I was not knowing if it was just abilities only. Like I know it doesn't say ability vamp, but when I see all, I'm like, all right. I don't know if there's a, again, any language barrier that messed up there. And I'm like, I'll vamp. What's all vamp? Like I know ability vamp and I know omni vamp, but I don't know. Like I'm like. Yeah. Omni and all is the same. Okay. So actually vamp sword is all vamp. It's not actually direct life steal, but it is still a melee basic character, right? You're never going to be using that on an ADC. And I think that's where itemization fails. ADCs, and I've looked into it since I said this last week, but, or earlier this week, I don't remember which, ADCs are basically shoehorned into running a crit build. Are there other attack speed items? Yes. There's three or four that they can choose that they can build into instead. But at the end of the day, crit builds are winning more often than not. Why wouldn't you just run a crit build? Right. And so it's, and most of those other items are usually for situational instead of crit, I want to build more anti-heal. So I'll build this attack speed item. Instead of crit, I want to build against tanks. So I'll build this item. It's not actually a true itemization path. You're not going a life steal build on an ADC. You're going crit and building emergency treatment, right? You're, it's, and that's what these builds are. Is it's crit plus one, crit plus one, crit plus one. It's not a full-fledged builds outside of crit for ADCs. And that's where their itemization, I think is lacking. If you're not a bruiser for physical characters, I'm not talking about magic power because that's a whole different beast. But for physical characters, you're either going bruiser, tank, or crit. That's it. Have fun. Those are your three options. There's no melee assassin itemization. There's not really a lot of physical penetration items that are good enough to be building in the vast majority of scenarios, right? It's itemization is just still kind of weak despite the new items we got. Right. I hate to be, I hate to rain on everybody's parade here, but we do, Jelly and I got shit to do. So, and I do want to get to, I do want to cover ethereal. So I think we're going to have to wrap it up on overprime, overprime, lots of fun. I've really enjoyed it. It's free. Go try it if you haven't tried it. Even if you're a big predecessor fan, you've heard all kinds of horrible things about overprime, still give it a try. It's fucking free. Why not? Why not give it a go? And maybe you'll like it. You probably won't, but maybe you will. And you know, that's all I have to say for that. But let, let us move on to Ethereal. Well, he's doing that. I'm going to say one last thing about a Paragon, the overprime, is Frendera's flask needs to be reworked. That passive is terrible. Nobody's building it. It's an awful pass here. Three and a half seconds, the bush is dumb. All right. Oh man, Jelly. Okay. So ethereal, so you guys have a new tab menu that brings up the scoreboard and the map and all of that. And it looks fantastic. Jelly, go over this. What has been added? What has been changed? What information can we gather here? Literally everything about this menu has changed from the last time people have seen it. In our previous test, the scoreboard was just a little box that appeared in the middle of your screen, very much similar to something like League of Legends. As just a very tiny scoreboard comes up, you get items, minions, kills, move on, right? And some spell cooldowns and stuff like that. This one is like that on crack because we've added our mini map to this screen. So when you hold the tab menu, you now will get all three lanes full size in the middle of your screen, which is going to be absolutely incredible. This will allow you to see what's going on in the map at a glance really quickly. You don't have to use the mini map in the top right corner. And that has some changes that we'll talk about in a little bit here as well in the coming weeks. But this allows you to see the whole map, see what's going on, see the towers, see the jungle camps, see cooldowns. So on the top, you see that you've got the ice waver and a tropos and fire waver and cooldowns that are on there, right? These are things that you, that way your team can help coordinate for these objectives a little bit more. You also of course have all of the information for the myths on your team and the myths on the enemy team, the items, familiars, primary spells, KDA, minions, all that good stuff. So just lots of good information across the board being added to this menu that was missing before. Is that the, for the heroes, is that their KDA gold or is that their gold or is that their bounty? That's their bounty. So that, yeah, that 900 figure, that's their, that'd be their bounty. Okay. Oh, nice. I do like the mini map, how you can see it because it helps people like mangoes that have bad vision, the old people, they can see the map a little easier now. So that's good. I have contacts and I have blue pills, fuck off bearded. What about the red pills, mangoes? I don't take the red pills. I like how ice lane is actually looks like it's ice. So you could tell very, I mean, fire lane looks, you know, burnt out a little bit, but you could very quickly tell which lane you're looking at when people are yelling ice lane or fire lane. Yeah, absolutely. And this will also help expand like eventual ping features as well, right? We've seen something I love and it honestly was kind of an inspiration for this mini map design and iteration is overprimes mini map and the ability to, when you hit that tab menu and you can click on the mini map and say like, I'm heading here or be careful over there or things like that, right? Having something like this opens up the opportunity for functionality like that in the future as well. What about click the move? I have no comments on that. I would be so afraid to use click the move in ethereal, especially if I'm on ice or fire lane because it would take me in some pathing that drops me off the side of the fucking map. I know it. I know it. Fire lane and click on void and it just runs you off the edge. Which you can do in some places, but most of the time you got to jump a little bit to make it all over to a void lane. Little boost, where you go fall down through the cracks. If you guys didn't know in ethereal, you can environment kill people. You can push them or throw them off the lane and kill them. It's pretty bad ass or just chase them. Absolutely. And this, so this tab menu comes with a basically complete UI overhaul, right? We've already done this once before and we're doing it, we've done it again already in that like we want to make sure that we keep the information really concise but still provide all the information that's necessary in ethereal, right? And so going through all of that, this is just one of the many screens that have been redone to provide that extra clarity in the game when you play. Yeah, it looks great. I love that you have all the familiars and everything, the gold bounty I absolutely love because I never know what people's fucking bounty is. It's probably displayed in other games, but I never know. And the items that you can counter build. Yeah, I think everything looks great here. Yeah, absolutely. And I will definitely say, man goose that no other game ever has ever displayed gold bounties. Ethereal is definitely the first one to do that. No other game. We're just better. What can I say, man? So I have to ask your JVN asked early access, when I just want to point out that a year ago today, we had a stress test. So what's happened in jelly? Yeah, what's up, jelly? Early. Well, we're working on it. I can't give any dates or anything like that. It's one of the things, I'm in a meeting literally once a week that talks about when this stuff is going to happen and where we're at and all that kind of stuff. But definitely everyone will know, we will put it everywhere. We'll put it in messages that you won't read, but it'll have a video link that you can click. So. Okay. I can just say in predecessor announced their time, over prime announced their time. So now you can't blame them for blocking yours. So when that, when you've announced your number four, you're going to come out. I want to put it out middle of that week. Lord Dips and Chas said, be wary of the yeet demon. The yeet demon. Yes, absolutely. And that'd be like the yeet demon. Or get like Iran, yeet demon. Yeet demon, man. Yes, that's it. And that'd be a thing. That'll be Mangus' honest earth review. It's going to be Iran yeet demon. There we go. There we go. There we go. Oh man. Excited for a theory. If you guys don't know anything about ethereal, look at the fuck up or just watch some videos, watch for the minions. We do cover it quite often and jelly does work for undying games. So be sure to play ethereal and like just internalize all that anger you felt at jelly when he recriticizes predecessor or over prime and then just throw it right back at him. Whatever you do this, whatever you play ethereal. You overprime your predecessor. People always did that to us. So what difference is it going to make? December 4th confirmed that's right, F6. Exactly. You heard it. You heard it here first. So I do have to say though, it was a couple of episodes ago you guys did this. But you guys got Armadilan and Balix picked up and great moves by you guys. And I'm excited to see the changes that are, they help improve in the game for going forward. So definitely excited to see what we've got going on. I mean, it's good now they finally have a good marketing guy on their team now. So thank you. Thank you. Much appreciated. No, it's it's so far been amazing to have them as part of the team. We're really excited for what's going to come out of that and bringing on their skill sets to help ethereal be the best it can be. Right on. Awesome. I think that is going to about wrap it up for this week's Four of the Minions, though. Let's let's get some final thoughts and some plugs. Bearded Wolverine, what are your final thoughts? What are your plugs? What do you want to tell us about? Final thoughts. This is it's a great time to be a Paris Zombie fan because we got some games coming out here. You know, December is going to be a great month for all of us. December 1st, December 4th, December 8th. You know, we're doing great now. And so I'm very excited. As far as plugs, you can catch me live Monday, Tuesdays, Thursdays on Twitch. But we're also doing, like I said earlier, working with some other content creators. We're going to do give you guys some good POV, different like five different POVs in one video. But we're also going to launch those videos individually as well. You know, Creators Unites is what we're calling it. He's got me, Windo the Mace, Pinso Dunzo, Menace Rex, and J-Py are going to be grinding that. So that's going to be fun to see. So definitely check those out and all of us on our YouTube. So. And you have a predecessor partner panel, right? Did you cover that? Yes. Yes, we do have a podcast. I'm sorry, yeah, you're right. So Mondays, we're doing podcasts. It's not, we don't know if it's going to be every Monday just right now, but it's whenever they do have good information coming out. So this Monday, we definitely will be talking about the information that we talked about here. So we'll be going over that as well. So that'll be fun as well. That's me, Windo, Medkit, and J-Py are on those. And then me and Windo definitely plan on doing an overprime version of that as well eventually, just working on trying to figure out who our guest hosts are going to be and stuff with that. Right on. That works. Jelenees. The get-through gaming tournament that starts in 30 minutes. Yeah. It's super exciting. NA is today. We had a great time yesterday. Mangus and I casting these games. So go follow my Twitch and you'll get notified when that goes live in a little bit here. And yeah, I'm super excited for that. And then, yeah, subscribe out to me on YouTube as well because. Your Twitch is the bearded Wolverine, right? Right. Yeah, yeah. It is. Twitch.tv slash the bearded Wolverine. You guys got it. And then, yes, subscribe to me on YouTube. I will likely be streaming a little bit more. I streamed earlier this week and then streamed yesterday, of course, the tournament, which means now that I'm getting back into the swing of streaming again, maybe this will start happening a little more often. Yay. Hopefully we need that Marble's Monday's back. Let's go. Exactly. Yeah. All right, well. See you tomorrow then. Thank you so much for everybody that get that. I got to the bread cast. Come to my YouTube channel. There you go. Thank you, everybody, so much for hanging out with us today. And thank you so much if you're watching this as the video. If you may have noticed, I did take your suggestions and I tried to put chat in. I haven't perfected it yet. As you can see, like the top of the bar and all that shit. But I'll figure it out and I'll get this set up so that we can include chat in all of these videos. So you don't have to wait for the YouTube upload. And as far as stuff that I have to plug, I actually have an overprime thing that I'm doing with stunt and loan. That's going to be on Fridays. And definitely, if you enjoy this sort of format, then go check out Bearded's predecessor. Because it's going to be about the same thing, just specifically about predecessor. So yeah, I think that's going to wrap it up for this week. This is the four of the minions crew signing off. You guys have a good one.