 Income tax 2023-2024, other income part number one. Get ready and some coffee because we need extreme concentration when doing income tax preparation 2023-2024. First a word from our sponsor. Yeah, actually we're sponsoring ourselves on this one because apparently the merchandisers they don't want to be seen with us. But that's okay whatever because our merchandise is better than their stupid stuff anyways. Like our trust me, I'm an accountant product line. It's paramount that you let people know that you're an accountant because apparently we're among the only ones equipped with the number crunching skills to answer society's current deep complex and nuanced questions. If you would like a commercial free experience consider subscribing to our website at accountinginstruction.com or accountinginstruction.thinkific.com. Most of this information can be found in the instructions for schedule one section of the form 1040 instructions taxured 2023 which you can find on the IRS website at irs.gov, irs.gov. Looking at the income tax formula we're focused on line one income. Remember in the first half of the income tax formula is basically a strange income statement. Most income statements have an income minus expenses resulting in net income. Here we have income minus various deductions result in taxable income. Noting that for taxes we want the income to be as low as possible as opposed to as high as possible. Therefore looking for items that might be exempt from having to include them in income. Also noting that some income items might be taxed at more favorable rates other than ordinary income rates. For example like possibly qualified dividends long term capital gain. When we look at the first page of the form 1040 we're focused on line number eight this time additional income from schedule one line 10. This is the schedule one additional income we're down here on line number eight. So note the general idea with income from the IRS is basically everything is included in income unless there's an exception for it. The most common types of income the IRS tries to get double check double verification about from the person that's paying the money because that's where they have to leverage such as W2 forms 1099 forms. Many of those items have a line section specific for them for example on page one of the 1040 we've got the W2 income as we've seen in the past here. We've got the IRA we've got the interest on the first page of the form 1040 and then we have more income line items on the schedule one. We also saw that we might have other schedules like a schedule C for example that could have income elements that are ultimately flowing through to page one of the form 1040. And then if you have other items which are less common then but still possibly include a bull and income that's what we're looking at now in other income. So once again we have these items net operating laws gambling cancellation of debt and so on and so forth and these line items. And if they're not found here you might just have to put them in other income and possibly notify the IRS what those are income for. All right. So lines eight eight through eight Z other income caution do not report on lines eight eight through eight Z any income from self employment or fees received as a notary republic. Instead you must use schedule C even if you don't have any business expenses. Now note one of the major things that we have to keep in mind when looking at the income is is it subject to self employment tax because that's going to be a whole another tax that we're going to have to calculate. So if we have an area like a W two income it's going to be fairly straightforward because we already paid our payroll taxes and it was withheld some incomes not subject to self employment tax such as possibly more passive investment type income. And that's why you don't really pay self employment tax on like interest and dividends because they're considered basically kind of more passive activities I believe is the major argument for that. But if you did active activities and you didn't pay taxes on them primarily looking at schedule C sole proprietor type businesses and possibly some other flow through types of entities partnerships LLCs for example. Then you're going to want to report on schedule C because the IRS is mainly saying hey you need to calculate the self employment tax if you're subject to it is the primary goal you would think from the IRS's perspective of things. Also don't report on lines 8A through 8Z any non employee compensation showing on form 1099 miscellaneous 1099 NEC or 1099 K unless it isn't self employment income. In other words typically when you have self employment income as we saw with the schedule C then you might get these form 1099 the most common one being the 1099 NEC. More and more common the 1099 K this is going to be dependent on how the IRS is trying to verify your income by forcing the person that's paying you to give a 1099. There's some kind of confusion as to whether or not sometimes for example in gig work situations should it be the platform that the IRS forces to pay you or the intermediary payment platform system like the pay pals of the world and whatnot. And then the 1099 miscellaneous was the main form before the 1099 NEC kind of took its place. Now that means that these sources of income the IRS is going to kind of assume that you're going to be subject to self employment tax on them typically and reporting them on the schedule C deducting the expenses unless for some reason they're not subject to self employment tax. So unless it isn't self employment income such as income from a hobby or a sporadic activity. So instead see the instructions for recipient included on form 1099 miscellaneous 1099 NEC or 1099 K to find out where to report the income for more information about what is being reported on form 1099 K. You can see the instructions for pay included on that form and visit IRS dot gov. Now they're getting better and better at kind of working out these 1099s but you can see there could possibly still be confusing when they're trying to force say the platforms to give you a 1099 and the intermediary payment systems like the pay pals. Because what you don't want to have happen is get to 1099s for the same income in which case again you'd have to kind of reconcile that with the people that issued the 1099 because they gave those to the IRS. All right. Line 8 a net operating laws in all deduction enter any in all deduction from an earlier year enter the amount in the pre printed parentheses as a negative number. The amount of your deduction will be subtracted from the other amounts of income listed on lines 8b through 8z. You can see publication 5364 details. Now note that we're looking at income line items here and now you're looking at something that basically says a deduction. Why is it in this area because it's kind of like an above the line the deduction. So we're not putting it in the itemized deduction area. We're putting it kind of in the income area. So we're reducing in essence the income because we had a loss. Now note that losses for taxes is something that the IRS is usually quite skeptical of because the definition of a tax is basically when you when you have income. The IRS wants a piece of your income but what if you had a loss. What if you what if you had a business activity and you lost money. In other words also note when we talk about income we usually mean net income and this is most clear when you're talking about business income. You're talking about a schedule C type of business and you earned 100,000 but you had to spend 80,000 to make it. They can't tax you on 100,000 you wouldn't even be able to pay the tax because you really only earned net 20,000. You had to pay 80,000 to earn 100,000. Therefore it only makes sense to tax you on the net amount which would be the 20,000 for an income tax kind of system. But what if you had 100,000 of income and you had 150,000 of losses. Well then you don't have any money to pay the government possibly because you actually lost money which is often the case in startup types of businesses. The IRS doesn't want to pay you for the losses. However they might allow you to get a benefit from it because you have deductions that you've got no benefit from that might be contributing to income in the future. Therefore the IRS might say something like well you can combine those losses against future income but we're not going to pay you for the losses. So definition. So as a net operating loss in OL occurs when a taxpayer's allowable deductions exceed their taxable income in a given year. Carry back and carry forward. So again remember they don't really want to pay you for the loss in the year but they might allow you possibly to net out the loss against other income in sometimes prior years or basically going forward. So in 2023 the Tax Cut and Jobs Act the TCJA eliminated the option to carry back in OLs for most taxpayers. So we used to have to deal with the situation of going back which means you're kind of amending prior tax returns which is great for taxes but also kind of a pain and probably the harder thing to do instead of carrying it forward. If you have NOLs by the way this is also something where you want to use the same tax software from year to year or if you have a new client it might be worthwhile to enter the information from the prior year in the prior software so you can properly carry it forward. The software helping you to hopefully get the NOL correct. So instead back to the text here instead individuals can generally only carry forward NOLs net operating losses indefinitely allowing them to offset future taxable income limitations. The TCJA also eliminated the deduction for NOLs to 80% of taxable income for losses arising in tax years beginning after December 31st 2017. Calculation to calculate an NOL for individual income tax purposes subtract allowable deductions including business losses, casualty, theft losses and certain other deductions from total taxable income for the year. So form 1045 or form 1040x to carry back or carry forward an NOL individuals typically filed either form 1045 application for tentative refund or form 1040x that's going to be the amended U.S. individual income tax return depending on whether they want to carry back or carry forward the loss. So it used to be when we had to carry back we had to file the amended returns to 1040x which was kind of a pain because you couldn't even electronically file them at that time. But if you carry them forward you know it's usually an easier system possibly so special rules for certain professions some professions such as farming and certain types of small businesses have special rules regarding the treatment of NOLs. Whenever you deal with farming that's a specialty area where you could specialize in if you don't specialize in farming the question is do you want to do the research to further take on those clients or do you not want to take on those types of clients because they're specialty areas. So for example farmers may have the option to carry back NOLs up to five years impact on tax liability utilizing an NOL can result in a refund of taxes paid in previous years. If carrying back or reduces tax owed in future years if carrying forward thereby providing taxpayers with some relief during tax financial downturns. So obviously the idea here being if you have deductions you should get a benefit for those deductions because if you got the deductions this year meaning if you had a loss this year that loss might have been necessary to generate revenue in the future. So just eliminating and not getting any benefit for the deduction seems kind of unfair. But there's also questions in terms of the tax brackets also kind of mess things up right because if I had a huge deductions this year and then I'm going to make a lot of money based on that foundation five years into the future. Then I got the deductions at the point in time where my tax bracket is low. I'm not paying much tax anyways and then I had income in later years where the tax bracket is high where you'd rather have the deduction matched out to the higher tax brackets sometimes. So it gets kind of ugly again because of the progressive tax structure gets complicated. So documentations it's important to maintain accurate records of income deductions and any carry back or carry forward transactions involving NOLs to ensure compliance with IRS regulations. Tax software is very helpful for that. Consultations given the complexity of NOL rules and calculations individuals may benefit from consulting with tax professionals or accountant. Obviously you would like advice on the NOLs noting that they often are going to be more likely to occur if you're picking up clients that have say schedule C types of businesses more complex types of returns. And as a tax preparer the question is do you want to be picking up more complex returns or or not depending on your business strategy. Line 8B gambling enter any gambling winnings gambling winnings include lotteries raffles and lump sum payments from the sale of a right to receive future lottery payments etc. For details on gambling losses see the instructions for schedule a line 16 tip attached forms W2G to form 1040 or 1040 SR if any federal income tax was withheld. So when you have gambling of course the IRS wants a piece of the winnings on the gambling as well. Now note gambling becomes complicated because usually if you're doing gambling for recreational purposes you probably lost more money than you actually generated but you might have hit a big win from time to time. In which case if it was at a casino or something like that the casino might be required to issue you say a W2G in order to report the income and you possibly could have a withholding when when that happens. If you went like a car or something sometimes that's a problem because they give you a car and then you're going to owe a bunch of taxes on the $100,000 car as well. So then there's also an issue with the losses and obviously the IRS basically kind of limits the losses that you can take for the gambling gambling. So there's going to be a big restriction on you know the types of losses you can take usually. So let's talk about it a little bit more reporting winnings so you are required to report all gambling winnings as income on your tax return. This includes winning from casinos, lotteries, raffles, horse races and any other games of chance forms. If you receive winnings of $600 or more from a single gambling session or payout the entity paying you should provide you with a form W2G. So you might say well what if I won a couple bucks in a slot machine. Well you know you might not get a form for that you probably lost a lot more money than you won but you know and so on. But if you win over $600 you think you might get a tax form. They're going to require the tax form for the W2G. That's certain gambling winnings. You'll use this form to report your winnings on your tax return. Taxable income. Gambling winnings are considered taxable income and must be reported on your federal income tax return. They are taxed at ordinary income rates the normal highest most worstest rates deductions. So you may be able to deduct gambling losses. So here's where the question comes in often times. What about the losses? I lost a lot of money but only up to the amount of your winnings. So in other words you can't take a loss for gambling typically unless it's like your actual business is some kind of gambling in which case you'd have a schedule C type of business. But the idea is obviously the IRS is not going to want to pay you for gambling losses. So therefore they limit the amount of losses up to the winnings. So you'll need to itemize deductions on schedule A of form 1040 to claim the gambling losses. Now the schedule A as we will see later is an itemized deduction. Most people don't take itemized deductions unless you're a more wealthy individual. Usually the thing pushing people over to itemize is a fairly substantially priced home because it has a mortgage on it often times. And the interest might be deductible as well as the property taxes. So if you're not itemizing then generally effectively you're not going to be able to take the losses in most cases. Record keeping it's crucial to keep accurate records of your gambling activities including dates locations amounts one and lost and any related expenses. So clearly your winnings will probably get reported to you with the W2 but if you want to take your losses you're going to want to make sure to track those in the event of an audit so that you can provide the documentation. This documentation will support your tax return in case of an audit. State taxes in addition to federal taxes you may also owe state income taxes that will be dependent on the state you're in. Estimated payments if you anticipate winning a significant amount in taxes on your gambling winnings you may need to make estimated tax payments throughout the year. So this often throws people off they win money and they get a significant win. Well great if you didn't withhold any taxes on that and then they spend all the money of course or drive their 100,000 car. If you didn't withhold any taxes it's going to kick you possibly up into a higher tax bracket and you're going to end up owing taxes on it. So you want to make sure that you are paying the estimated taxes taking into consideration the new income that you are making so that you don't get hit with the stick of penalties and interest. The metaphorical stick. Professional gambling if gambling is your primary source of income you may be considered a professional gambler. Poker is not a game. It's about talent man. It's about talent. That's what I'm saying. So anyways, so if you're a professional gambler then in this case you would report your gambling income on a schedule C because that would basically if you're a professional poker player or something like that then you might be reporting it on a schedule C. So tax assistance. It's not about luck man. It's not about luck. Okay. Tax assistance anyway. So line eight C cancellation of debt. So enter any canceled debt canceled debt may be shown in box two of form 1099 C. Now canceled debt sometimes can be a little confusing to wrap our minds around. Basically the idea of course would be if if you took a loan out say from the bank and then the bank said you no longer have to pay me alone. You might say well I didn't get any income from that. I didn't get any cash in my hands. But that's basically the same as like the bank saying I'm going to give you the 20,000 that you owe me as a gift. Right. And then you're going to give it back to me in payment of the loan. You basically got income if someone forgives you debt is the bottom line of it. And you might say well why would that ever happen the bank would never do that. You might do it if they if they can see that you're insolvent and they're never going to get paid. It's not worth it. So if if it's if it's not worth their time to keep pursuing the debt the might come to an agreement that could be beneficial for both sides. And then you could have this forgiveness of debt kind of situation. However part or all of your income from cancellation of debt may be non taxable. In those situations where there's a forgiveness of debt it's probably because the person who had the debt debt had a problem. There was insolvency or something going on in which case the iris might come up with various types of reasons or ways to have exclusion of the debt. So then if that's a case for you you can see publication 4681 or go to iris.gov and enter canceled debt or foreclosure in the search box. So line 8d foreign earned income exclusion and housing exclusion form 10555. So enter the amount of your foreign earned income and housing exclusion from form 25555 line 45. Foreign income becomes a whole specialty field in and of itself because if you're living somewhere else and you're like a US citizen then you could end up with a double tax situation. If there's not like a tax treaty between the countries that are involved. So so in order to work with that then you've got this situation of possibly having a foreign income exclusion. So if your tax preparer your questions are going to be do I want to take on those types of clients do I want to specialize in that type of area or possibly do I not want to take on those more complex type of situations from just a business standpoint. So enter the amount in the preprinted parentheses as a negative number. So basically it's in the income section as we're talking about the income line but could be a negative number because we're excluding it from income. So it's kind of like a deduction but we're basically kind of excluding it from the income. Okay the amount from form 255 line 255 line 45 will be subtracted from the other amounts of income listed on lines 8a through 8c and lines 8e through 8z. Complete the foreign earned income tax worksheet if you enter the amount on form 255 line 45 foreign earned income exclusion. So just a little bit more on the foreign earned income exclusion. Taxpayers who meet certain requirements such as residing in a foreign country for a specified period of and having foreign earned income may qualify to include a portion of their foreign earned income from US taxation. This exclusion is claimed on form 255 five. Why would that be the case again because you might have taxes subject to two places which would be bad and therefore you might have some kind of agreement or treaty between the two countries for taxes in terms of how that is going. Who's going to get the taxes in essence in that situation. In addition to the FEIE the foreign earned income exclusion taxpayers may also qualify for a housing exclusion or deduction to cover certain housing expenses incurred while living abroad. This exclusion is also reported on form 255 five. Total exclusions reported line 8d requires taxpayers to sum up the amounts of both the foreign earned income exclusion and housing exclusion claimed on form 255 five. This total represents the portion of income and housing expenses that the taxpayer has excluded from their US taxable income documentation. Taxpayers claiming these exclusions should ensure they meet all eligibility requirements and maintain appropriate documentation to support their claims as always. So the IRS may require documentation to verify eligibility for these exclusions during an audit. That's why of course you have the documentation impact on tax liability. Claiming the foreign earned income exclusion and housing exclusion can significantly reduce the taxpayers US tax liability on income earned abroad providing important tax benefits. Clearly that could have a big impact if you're dealing with that situation for taxes. Line 8e income from form 8853 enter the total of the amounts from form 8853 lines 812 and 26. You can see publication 969 for more information. You may have to pay an additional tax if you receive a taxable distribution from an archer MSA or Medicare Advantage MSA. You can see instructions for form 8853 for more information here. A little bit more detail. Form 8853 is used to report archer MSA's medical savings accounts and long term care insurance contracts. Okay. Line 8f income from form 8889. So enter the total of the amount from form 8889 lines 16 through 20 caution. You may have to pay an additional tax if you receive a taxable distribution from a health savings account. See the instructions for form 8889. Now we might talk more about the health savings accounts or HSA's in a future presentation but a bit more detail now. Form 8889 is used to report contributions and distributions from health savings accounts or HSA's. Now you might think of HSA's as a tax tool in some ways similar to like a 401k plan or an IRA which most people are possibly more familiar with. In which case we might invest money into an HSA which is kind of like an investment tool. We're putting money into an account which is basically underneath an umbrella I would call it of an HSA in a similar way as when we put money into an IRA. We can think of it as under an umbrella of an IRA even though it's in like a normal type of investment. Now the fact that it's under the umbrella of an HSA in a similar way as under the umbrella of an IRA restricts the money in some ways in terms of how we might be able to use that money. In which case we would not normally do that unless we get a tax benefit from it. And the tax benefit could be that we have earnings on the money that are in the account that could have not be subject to tax in some way, shape or form. Now like with the IRAs when we take the money out of like an HSA then that might be a taxable type of event. So again we might touch more on them in future presentations but that's just a summary. So go to the IRS website to dig into the HSA as a tax strategy if you so choose at this time. Now we have line 8H jury duty pay and to enter any jury duty pay and see the instructions for line 24A. Now jury duty is usually kind of a mandatory type of thing. You're forced to do jury duty but you might get some pay for the jury duty and then the question is do you have to include the jury duty as income? Where would that go? Line 8H. Line 8I prizes and awards. Enter prizes and awards but see instructions for line 8M, Olympic and Paralympic medals, USOC prize money later. So most of the time when we have prize money, if we win something and we get a prize for it, usually that's something that's going to have to be included in income as well. So taxable income, jury duty. Let's talk about jury duty in a bit more detail. So jury duty pay is generally considered taxable income at the federal level and may also be subject to state and local taxes depending on jurisdiction. Form 1099 miscellaneous. If you receive jury duty pay of $600 or more during the tax year, you should receive form 1099 miscellaneous. Same kind of rules for most 1099s. If you're over that $600, the person that's paying it, in this case the locale that's paying you the jury duty will issue the 1099 miscellaneous. And then the question from us on a taxpayer standpoint is like where do we put this on the return to that other area? It should not be subject then you would think to a Schedule C self-employment tax. So make sure you don't put it in like a Schedule C because then you're going to pay self-employment on it. So from the court or government entity that paid you, so this form reports the total amount of jury duty income you earned. Reporting jury duty income, even if you do not receive a form 1099 miscellaneous, you are still required to report your jury duty income on your tax return. Just like any other reporting in theory were required to do it ourselves, but in practice the IRS is really trying to get every dollar of income to be reported to them before we report it. So you will typically report this income as quote other income in quote online eight of form 1040 or line one of form 1040 EZ tax withholding. Jury duty pay may have federal income tax withheld depending on the policies of the jurisdiction that summons you. So like other types of income, you might be able to have withholdings on it. For most people, the jury duty might not be that much or a significant part of their income. So you might not have withholdings on it, but if it becomes a significant part of the income, you have to take it into consideration in terms of how much tax you're going to owe so that you can pay the tax either through withholdings or estimated payments during the year so you're not hit with the stick of penalties and interest. So you should review any tax withholding on your pay stubs or pay documentation. No Social Security or Medicare taxes. So jury duty is exempt from Social Security and Medicare FICA taxes. So you're not having a W-2 income. Therefore, you're not hitting the payroll taxes, Social Security and Medicare. And even though you got a 1099, you're not going to report it on a Schedule C, which typically will trigger the calculation of Social Security and Medicare in the format of self-employment tax. That's why it's an other income. Deductions, you may be able to deduct certain expenses related to serving jury duty such as travel expenses or unreimbursed parking fees as miscellaneous deductions subject to certain limitations. However, the tax cuts and jobs at the TCJA suspended miscellaneous deductions subject to the 2% of a just gross income. So this is something that was severely kind of restricted in terms of the itemized deductions a few years ago. So in any case, Line 8J activity not engaged in for profit income such as hobbies. You can see publication 525 for more detail with that. Now, just a quick note on like hobbies, for example, there's obviously going to be a question as to whether something is a hobby or not. The IRS, like I say, is skeptical of losses. So if you engage in activities, the classic example is like horse racing. People got into horse racing and they lost a lot of money because apparently horse racing and caring for horses is quite expensive. But it looked like they just really liked the horse racing. And they weren't really in it for profit because they weren't making any money for a long period of time and they're writing off expensive losses. The IRS doesn't like losses. They don't want to pay you for losses. And therefore you might end up in a situation if you have losses in particular to justify to the IRS that you're in this business for profit. And so that's going to be often the question, is this a hobby or not? If it's a hobby, you might get paid income for it, but the IRS is not going to want to pay your losses. Then therefore you're going to have to record it as hobby income as opposed to business income. In any case, also note that if you have hobby income, the benefit of a hobby is that the income on it might not be subject then to self-employment tax, social security, and Medicare. Just the income tax. So Line 8K stock options enter any income from the exercise of stock options not otherwise reported on Form 1040 or 1040 SR Line 1H. So non-profit activities, a little bit more detail. Income from activities that you do not engage in for profit such as hobbies or certain investments is considered non-business income. Taxable income, non-business income is generally taxable and must be reported on your tax return. This income may include income from hobbies, investments, or other sources not conducted with the primary intent of making a profit. So in other words, oftentimes if you're getting paid for something, you're involved in it as a profit seeking behavior. But you might get paid for certain things that are basically like your hobby. So if you're a film critic or something like that, someone might pay you for reviewing their film from time to time. But if that's not your primary source of income, then you might be able to say, hey, that's hobby income as opposed to business income. Again, the benefit of saying it's business income is that you might be able to take a loss on it if you had a lot of deductions. Because most people have deductions on their hobbies. That's why if they weren't having a loss, they would do it as a business. So in the fact that you have losses doesn't mean that you're not in it for profit. So in other words, if you're in a business like a film critic or something like that, then classically you might be writing off movies, going to movies or something, or going abroad as part of your business. And the IRS is more likely to see that as a hobby because you're doing things that look fun. Whereas if your business was tax preparation, the IRS is probably not going to try to claim that you're doing that as a hobby because it doesn't look like a hobby. So certain types of businesses probably have a bigger stress to try to prove that the activity that you're in is for profit. And obviously proving it is going to be more difficult in the event that you have losses. Don't let the fact that you have losses scare you from saying this is my actual business. It's okay to have losses, but you're going to have to make sure that you can report that it's a for profit activity. If you have more than three years of losses, then the IRS is going to get more critical and it might be more on you to prove that you're in it for profit as opposed to on the IRS to prove that you are not. Okay, so form 1040 reporting. Non-business income is generally reported on your form 1040 schedule 1, line 8. If you will enter the total amount of non-business income earned during the tax year on this line, deductions. While income from non-profit activities is taxable, you may be eligible to deduct certain expenses related to generating that income. However, deductions for hobby expenses are limited and subject to certain conditions outlined in the tax code. So the general idea would be you don't generally get to deduct the losses in the same kind of way that you get to deduct the losses for a for profit business. That's the problem with the hobbies. The IRS is going to say they're personal. Therefore, in general, you don't get the deductions for the hobbies in the same way as you would for a for profit business. Losses, if your non-profit activities result in a loss, you generally cannot deduct those losses against other income. That's the point. That's why the IRS doesn't allow the hobbies because you're probably going to have a loss and the IRS doesn't want to pay you losses for your hobby. Line 8I, income from the rental of personal property if you engaged in the rental for profit, but we're not in the business of renting such property. You can also see the instructions for line 24B later. Line 8M, this is where we have that Olympic and Paralympic medal and USOC prize money. So the value of Olympic and Paralympic medals and the amount of United States Olympic Committee, USOC prize money you receive on account of your participation in the Olympic or Paralympic games may be non-taxable. Well, that's nice of them. You're representing our country in the Olympics. You'd think you'd get... Anyway, these amounts should be... They should have to pay taxes if they lose. That's what this... Anyway, the amounts should be reported to you in box three of form 1099 miscellaneous. So to see these amounts are non-taxable, first figure your adjusted gross income, including the amount of your medals and prize money. So if your adjusted gross income is not more than $1,500,000 of married filing jointly, these amounts are non-taxable and you should include the amount in box three of form 1099 miscellaneous online 8N. Thank you.