 seven o'clock Chris. Okay, before we start here, Kim, what's your last name please? Hello, Kim. I guess they're not willing to speak. So we'll start the meeting. We'll start to call the meeting to order for Monday, August 10th, 2020. We're not at the Steel Community Room. We are live on Zoom. And like always, the first thing to do is to approve the agenda. Anybody that wishes to add to it or change it? There's one addition that we need to have, Chris. Alyssa is scheduled to give a economic development director's report tonight. That's for the MOU from between RW and Littone. And we've simply forgot to put it on. She contacted me last week to tell me that she had it ready. And I just forgot to give it to Karla. So if she could put her on, probably under the select board items somewhere would be good. Yeah, I just did. Nothing else then? Okay, with that change, I take a motion to approve the agenda. Sorry. I was going to ask about an opportunity to get an update on the encampment of Sto Street in 100. Can you be a little more specific? You know what she's talking about, Bill? Yeah. She can do it under public, Chris. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. All right. I'll take a motion to approve the agenda. Mike, you got to unmute, please. I make a motion to approve the agenda as amended to add to the encampment issue and the economic development issue. Okay. Second. Second. 80 seconds. Further discussion? I'll lose a wish to approve. Say aye. Aye. Aye. Consent agenda items just a minute from August 3rd meeting. Take a motion to approve the consent agenda. I make a motion to approve the consent agenda. Any second, please? Second. Okay, Nat. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay, public. Ms. Wilkins, go ahead. I just wanted to get an update and see how we can get some resolution with the encampment. The individuals there have been shooting guns, and so there's a safety concern with that because it's coming to the backyard of homes with children. And then the other side is Route 100. The other concern is that there have been fires going regularly in there. And we have been in contact with the state police. And it's on state land, so there was some confusion about who is responsible. So I'm not sure this is much about this. Wilkins lives on Seabury Place. That's correct, isn't it? Correct. Yes. Thank you. So Seabury Place, for those of you don't know it, is off of North Street, which is the half moon road on Little Street. When you come down the hill, North Street goes off to the right. And then there's a private street called Seabury Place that goes up the hill. And there's some residential properties up there. And Seabury Place and the last property is back up to the statue book above the falls, above the grist melt. And evidently, there has been, I suppose, homeless people, maybe, for lack of a better word, that have camped there. This is unbeknownst to anyone until last week or so when Ms. Wilkins called here to the county clerk's office. As she said a minute ago, she and a couple of other neighbors have suggested that they hear gunshots. I don't remember what time it day, but you know, they've called the state police. The state police have gone to the site. I spoke with a sergeant from the state police last week. And the people are accessing this area from the Route 100 of Thatcher Brook. So if you can envision where the old offer is coming off of exit 10 from Montpelier, that's being used for storage by McDonald's right now in the Main Street Construction, is a, you know, a slope up the hill there ledges. And they're accessing this area by the Route 100 side getting up in there and evidently, they're camping. The state police, as I indicated, have been called. I talked to the state clerk on Wednesday last week and indicated, and, you know, he indicated to me that they went to the site. They saw evidence of camping there. They did not encounter the individual or individuals. And maybe Ms. Wilkins knows how many there are, but I haven't seen them. And they scoured the campsite and he told me they didn't find any spent shell casings. Now that does not mean that there's not shooting going on there. It just means that he didn't find any evidence of it, except calls from the people over on the street side of the Brook. The property is state property. It's owned by interstate and Route 100 right away. So it's V-Trans property. I asked the state if, you know, V-Trans could be contacted. I have not been able to contact V-Trans yet, so I don't have any update on that, Ms. Wilkins. But, you know, if V-Trans would issue a notice of no trespass, then the state police could push them out of there. The state police called again over the weekend because several individuals were seeing, going back up the 100th site of the river into the encampment. And I understand the state police were there again. But as of a few minutes ago, the encampment is still there. Yeah. So you know more about it. I didn't know the state police went back over the weekend. Yeah. The other neighbor that lives in 10c very place called because he was home and got the people climbing up the opposite side of the bank from his home to above. And I think the challenge is, and this is a challenge that we face as society everywhere, is that there are no strong laws about being homeless and camping. We don't have any ordinance in the town or the former village that speaks to it. The village had an ordinance that prohibited discharge of firearms within the village limits, but there's no village anymore. I do not believe the town has an ordinance such and, you know, if we want to consider it, we'll have to talk to an attorney to figure out how we write the ordinance because I assume nobody's wanting to say that nowhere in the town can shoot a gun. But the ordinance that the village had was for the village specifically, and there was no discharge of firearms within the village. Even if the police found them shooting a gun right now, they could probably talk to them and probably, you know, a little bit more forcefully than I'm talking right now, could probably make a statement that they ought not to do that. I don't believe there's any law that prohibits it. So, in the classic situation, and I saw Ms. Wilkins on Thursday, last week, Thursday or Friday, downtown, and we chatted for a little bit, and this is another one of those situations where we don't have anything because we've never really had the problem. Now it's here, and what can we do about it? Even if VTAN's issued a notice of abuse and the state police pushed them off of there, they wouldn't arrest it for it, and then they just move along somewhere else. And I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't try to move them away from this neighborhood, but it's not just, you know, you can do something and the problem just goes away. I've also told the state police trooper when I was contact, when I contacted it last week, when we were talking about this situation, that I've had a couple of things about a homeless person in Rusty Parker Park down here on Main Street. Now that park, there is an ordinance there that says the park closes at sunset, so if they find somebody in there, they could, they could move them along, but again, it doesn't mean that they're gonna, you know, relocate them from town or put them on the bus and, you know, take them to New York or anything. So that's the issue, and I did tell Ms. Wilkins that I would try to contact VTAN's to make them aware of the situation, the state police, I believe, already have. So that's the update right now. And just so you know, the under the letter C on the manager's items where it says issues for consideration at the meetings, this is one of the issues that I was going to bring up under that, under that heading. So that's where we are right now, Tilla. I'm glad to hear it was going to be discussed. And I think I don't know how officially, but I think the town and should, should get some kind of ordinance back to protect those of us. I, you know, I'm concerned about the safety of people around here. There is no way for me to protect myself that, you know, I call the police and I'm told that I am hearing potential, and I'm hearing fireworks, and it's not. So, you know, we need to have some, somebody that is able to protect us. Lisa. I was just wondering if Dr. Dr. Mayor, the town's, is she still the town? She's not. Okay. But she is connected with a group that works with people who are homeless in all of Washington County. And I don't know if she might be able to be of assistance or have any resources that maybe could be offered to these individuals to assist them to maybe relocate. Well, I'm going to obviously take the hard nose approach and cut to the chase here. If we have the ability, the authority to implement an ordinance that says no homeless encampments at all in the town of Waterbury, that's the route I'm going to want to go. I don't think you have that authority, Chris. That's unfortunate. I don't, you know, as I've said before, the municipalities in Vermont can only do what's authorized by state law. And I don't think you can make homelessness illegal. And I don't think you can just make a blanket ordinance saying that you can't be homeless in Waterbury. Yes. Well, we probably shouldn't get any further into the weed on it then because all it does is up my blood pressure. Well, Mrs. Wilkins, thanks for bringing it to our attention. As of tonight, nobody had known anything about it, at least from the board's perspective. I don't believe Mike, you got a question? I do. I'm as concerned as anything, homelessness is a problem. It is a problem where you do see encampments. I am concerned that, you know, if they're as much as I'm very pro gun guns need to be used in a safe and responsible manner. And one, I would like to be, you know, somehow we need to find out if it is absolutely gunfire versus fireworks, because sometimes, sometimes people get confused, too. You know, I know a lot of people, I'm not saying someone doesn't know one from the other, but yes, if someone's using. How are you going to find that out, Mike? What? How are you going to find that out? Are you going to go up there and inspect the place? Because I'm not going up there. Oh, I would say the state police would. We have a contract with this. They've been up there at least twice or three times. Have they been up there in the evening when there are three people are going to be sleeping? That would be the time to, you know, if they're going to go during the middle of the day, they're probably doing their business. And to me, if they go up at, you know, nine, 10 o'clock at night, that's the time where they're probably going to encounter the folks. And if there's any sense of guns there, you know, they could speak, hey, we can be shooting there. And the whole issue of getting them out is a whole nother issue. You know, we have to figure out, you know, where is a more appropriate thing, the applicable, you know, mental health and or homeless advocates that that may be able to help these individuals. The state needs to recognize first and foremost that percentage of those homeless people are homeless because they want to be and went until they acknowledge that this problem is going nowhere. Okay, we need to move on. Thanks, Ms. Wilkins. You could join us at the next meeting if you'd like and you probably have more input by then. Good luck and high out for your kids. Yeah, don't sit in my living room. I know. I our hands are tied, obviously, you know, it's it's and it things are just continuing to get worse here. Chris, I'd like to say something. I would say that I'd be I'd be in support of looking at the village ordinance surrounding gunfire and that map and wondering if we can maybe use the former village map and reinstate that to not only help with this, but just to create some safety for the density of the former village. Sure. You know, obviously, this discussion will also take into consideration residents, taxpayers, gun owners rights as well, you know, but we can somehow something together that that solves the problem that Mrs. Wilkins is dealing with. It'll be a good thing, but certainly look at it, Mark. Anybody else before we go on to our next thing? Okay. Thank you all for that. Thank you. Like board items. Discussing the fall recreation program must be why next year? It is. Yeah, you want to take off of it, Nick? So, well, before Nick starts, I did send an email to the board members around five o'clock tonight. I hope you all saw it, but Nick sent a memo out that looks like this that I sent to all of you at five o'clock. So if you haven't looked, try to find it, but go ahead, Nick. Yeah, so alluded to at last meeting, but since the school district has implemented a four day out of school one day in school instructional model, that leaves a lot of parents in the community wondering what they're going to do with their kids for four of those days. Now, a lot of parents are back to working on like the spring when everyone was kind of shut down. So we kind of put our heads together and came up with a program that seems to work all around. Physically staffing wise and for the community, which is the most important. Basically, we'd operate out of the rec building. We can hold 15, 16 kids in there. With the COVID regulations, we kind of he can hold 22, but or 25. But we think we're going to cap it around 15 or 16 to make sure that there's just enough social distancing, just in case the regulations change. The rec building has Wi-Fi. It has heat running water bathrooms. We have a little kitchen. So it covers the needs, the basic needs for kids for child care throughout the day, like a school would. Additionally, we're going to staff it with some of our staff that are currently in college to become teachers. We have two staff that are a senior and a junior that are doing their student teaching. And they're going to use this as part of an opportunity. Additionally, Keith McKenna, our pool director and the day camp director this year. He's a licensed teacher. He has the license through K through 12, basically. He's not going to be running it because he's going to be teaching for the Memorial Union, Supervisor Union, but he runs our offices and lessons on Sundays. So he's available to consult if we need to. But basically, this program would run 8am to 1.30, Monday through Friday, with two staff on. And then I would hop in and out as needed so I can still work on my other offseason duties. And we would do the same checking procedures like we do for rec, which are in line with the child care regulations at the State of Vermont because they issued temp gun questionnaire, visual signs. Additionally, we'll add like a little release. Every person that registers for rec, Chris, Karen, you have to sign a digital waiver. We're going to add to that the COVID, just a little COVID bit. I'll work with the LTC on that. But they'd put something out a little bit ago that we could use for after school or in school child care programs. But basically, in order to sign up for this program, you'll need to abide by that like you would our day camp handbook. It's going to be kind of like that. It's $25 a day and you can sign up for every day if you wanted to. Your kid's not in school. The stipulation is unlike like a swim lesson you can sign up for and pay later. We require the $25 for that day, the time of registration in order to hold the spot. That way it alleviates people blanket. The spots are very limited. So it alleviates folks blanket registering their kid for 14 weeks. And then the week of being like, oh, we found other child care and opening that spot up to someone. But last minute, yeah, so we would require the $25 then. That way people are registering for actual spots they actually need and not just taking a spot for the entire fall. And then picking and choosing what days they give up. So Nick, let me ask you real quick. You're saying that every time I think you lost me there a little bit, they got to register and pay the $25 every day? Is that what you're saying? Wait, can you say it again? Chris, it cut out. Oh, are you saying that they have to pay the $25 every day daily when they show up with their job? Yeah, they'll have to pay it online or like prior to coming to rec that day, they'll have to pay that. You're saying you can't pay your muted bill? Yeah. Nick is the one that seems to be cutting out a little bit right now. When we sign up for rec, people are able to sign up and make a down payment and then they pay later for the summer recreation program. I think what Nick is saying is that whatever days people sign up for, they need to pay for it when they sign up for it. So if they want to take all 14 weeks, they've got to pay for all of those days when they sign up for it. The expectation I think that you have, Nick, is that people will be signing up in a variable way that they'll sign up for this week and then next week they'll sign up again? Or what are you talking about? Yeah, that's how they would theoretically sign up is kind of like a few weeks out in advance that they know that they definitely need child care for those days and want the remote instruction help. Yeah, that's the idea. The challenge, of course, is two things. One, we have space for 15 kids or so. There's a lot of kids that go to school and there's probably a lot of people that might have a challenge finding child care. We're also charging $25 a day. It's not a full day, but five and a half hours, I think, which is a very reasonable price from the perspective of parents that have to pay for this. I expect demand is going to be pretty high and you may have people signing up for the whole thing right at the beginning because where are they going to get $25 a day care? I guess that's where I lost, Nick, because I thought that we weren't able to sign up for the whole duration if you decided to pull the plug. Yeah, you could sign up for the whole duration. Yeah, just you'll need to pay for it. You'll have to pay for the whole thing up front. The school situation is evolving so quickly, would it be beneficial to do sign up at the beginning of each month based on changes that can occur even monthly at the school? Because we could in October be in school two days a week and I've signed up for track and prepaid and then now my child's in school that day. Yeah, we would offer a refund. I want to prevent what's happening right now is I have the extension camp registration happening right now. And so if we do every month, you're going to have 15 people fighting for those spots. Whereas if it's fluid, people can sign up as they go. They don't have to feel like they need to sign up for everything at once and pay for it, but that way there's just not a frenzy and then people emailing upset. They can see what's available, what's not available. I was going to say the only risk with that is you snooze, you lose. It's going to be popular. Yeah, there's nothing else you can do when it comes to something like this. It's just there's too many people that need those types of services and not enough services out there. So you're going to have your hands full. Mike, you got something? Yes. Is that my impression that 15 won't even come close to what the probable demand is. Maybe I'm wrong, but does Nick have any kind of clue as to, you know, I could say 50, 100 kids potentially needing that service because again, a lot of the school age kids, parents won't have that infrastructure of know who who are in daycare because it's just so used to having their kids in school. So do we have any kind of clue as to what the potential demand is because 15 is not a lot of kids to serve? Yeah, so I sent out a survey, a survey monkey a couple weeks ago asking about the extension camp and then this and almost everyone that responded. It was like 80 or 90 of the of 100 and something folks I sent it out to. It's a crazy response rate. It's really good. Said that they either checked. Yes, they would be interested or yes, they would definitely sign up or yes, but they want to just know more of the details, which I've worked out for this meeting, the hours, the cost, what not less than 10. So there's no triage based upon need that, you know, folks that may be able to afford other options, you know, can can do so. I that's that's where I go. It's kind of I know it's probably going to be first come first serve. Yeah, we really don't. We really don't have the infrastructure to figure out need based stuff. It's hard to get that information even from the school, right? And at this late of a date, it's really, it's really not possible for us to do that. You know, it's a, you know, we a couple of weeks ago, we had the final public hearing on the community center. And obviously, you know, we don't have it, you know, and it's a huge cost. But you know, here's the place where there's a there's an obvious need right now. And we've got we've got the ability to deal with 15 or so kids. Right now, we've only got the one venue and and it's limited in numbers because of the COVID restrictions. And it's also limited because you need to have enough staff to watch the children. And again, at such a late date, it's just hard to shift all the gears that you need to accommodate 50 or 75 people, Mike. Totally understand. Space space is the biggest one. We could hire more staff for this, but it would there wouldn't be enough room for it. So yeah, we'll see what the need is so far. Nick's proposal did show, you know, a little bit of a projected budget. Even at $25 a day, it looks like this will probably break even for us at worst. So unless you have other questions, staff's recommendation is to have you make a motion to approve this so Nick can start working on it and getting the word out. I make a motion, Mike muted, but I would recommend to a motion to approve the Waterbury rec school child care supplement as presented in the memo by Nick. I'll second. Okay, any further discussion? Nick, did you ask any of the schools if they'd be open to letting you use their space, like even one day a week or anything, like one classroom or basement? Yeah. Yeah, there, I'm on a board with one of the principles at that. They're, they're just like I'm telling people I'm not running the rec building up this fall because of this program. They're, they're letting they're letting people know the same exact thing that they're very precautious and have to maintain a certain level of security for, for safety. So go ahead, Mark. Oh, sorry, that's background noise. Okay. You are not all set. All set. Thank you. Motion has been made and seconded. All those who wish to approve it, say aye please. Aye. Aye. Good luck, Nick. It's too bad we didn't have space for in staff for a lot more kids. We'll just shout, we'll see how it works. Thanks, Nick. Good job. Thank you. Thank you very much for all you've done, Nick. No problem. Thank you. Melissa, you want to chew on our ears for a bit with a report from the economic development director? Hopefully, it's a little more pleasant than chewing. I'll do my best. I did, you all should have an email probably a little bit above the memo from Nick with kind of the more formal report from the year. So certainly follow up if you have specific questions. I guess I would just start. We revisited, you know, the formal MOU that the town has with RW which funds economic development services, which RW implements through hiring me to be the economic development director. We really appreciate the support I think that you all have shown to the organization through funding the position particularly right now when giving that flexibility with the PPP. And I also really appreciate the support on things like the tenants and outdoor seating and kind of some of the other stuff you all have supported. So I just wanted to start with that kind of thank you. This report was over an interesting timeframe because it's from January of this year basically through July. So in January, we were doing business mixers where we crammed 40 to 60 people in a small contained space, appetizers socialized because that is kind of what the role looks like then. Thinking back to kind of some of the planning overlap, obviously a big fan of the planning commission and try to be pretty involved in their work. So there was a process over the historic overlay district and providing some input on that. But since Mark obviously you'll see the bulk of the report is really around kind of COVID response and kind of pivoting initially our concern going into March was main street reconstruction and meeting one on one with you know some of the businesses in downtown and figuring out how to support them and I distinctly remember a conversation with Dave and Lynette Blackback probably a week or two before the shutdown and they said you know yeah we're pretty worried about construction. There's also this virus thing we don't know about that but you know two weeks later obviously we know what happened. Even since March I think the role in terms of the support I've tried to provide in light of COVID has varied. So initially it was really you know we had the executive order from the governor and what does this mean for my business you know am I considered an essential business? Can I be open right now? How can I be open right now? Am I allowed to do curbside? Mark obviously who's on the call was actually a big part of putting together a really nice partnership that we've continued with STO. Obviously we share a lot of similar business categories whether it's restaurants, lodging and so there was a big group of folks the first call we maxed out Zoom at 100 people and people couldn't get on because so many people wanted to talk and share and find out what the updates were. Teresa again who's also on the call and Tom Stevens who was here earlier were great about kind of providing legislative updates particularly when they were in session and things were evolving and changing but we continue those calls twice a week for probably two months down to once a week and we just stopped in the end of last month but just offering an opportunity for businesses to really collaborate and connect you know. Is every hotel in the world buying new pillows? Has anyone had problems with this particular application? Have you gotten this federal funding and then that opportunity for us as well to share information? So I spent a good portion of my days on the webinars offered by you know the Agency of Commerce and Community Development, Department of Taxes, unemployment like you name it I probably sat through a webinar and then was working on providing that information out both to a list of over 200 businesses in town and on those calls in terms of you know some programs you needed to pre-register in order to be eligible or here's the types of documents you need to have an order because this grant program is first come first serve so how could you know businesses get ready for that? You know right up front it was a lot of who's open who's providing services how folks in town could support them but you know continuing now I'd say we're probably on kind of the tail end there is a couple of still financial programs. Some of this is now some of the state programs that are using the federal cares money and helping to kind of spread that out further so but again there's a fair amount of money on the table for those who qualify we know there's some gaps in terms of folks who opened recently or some thresholds in terms of how much business is lost so those can be challenging but again as recently as like last week you know you can find out that oh someone didn't know about a program or was mixed up about the guidelines and like they might be eligible to you know like 10 to $15,000 so you know the hope is just supporting people in you know how you're eligible and have you applied and doing a lot of that follow-up has been just trying to get folks to take advantage of as much as they can I say you know I hope you don't qualify but if you do qualify I want to make sure that you're getting you know as much financial assistance as you can um you know despite a pandemic we are a little more normal now and there is you know the ongoing work around available spaces in town books moving in and out of spaces in town so like you know I'm always a resource for people who want to move here you know we had someone who I'm moving to Waterbury from Burlington and I have a business and I might want to relocate it so looking at places for that person or just you know how I've heard of the area or I'm interested in a particular space what does permitting look like that's all you know kind of standard support I provide I guess I'll give kind of like a brief overview not wanting to speak for everyone but just because I think I'm going to get asked you know I would say right now the community has been pretty fortunate in terms of businesses at least for now being able to kind of hang on and stay open again between the patchwork of federal state local support I think it's too soon to tell where we're going to be ultimately you know I think it's it's hard folks to plan for the future and some of those folks who have managed to stay open or reopen partially aren't necessarily doing that at a sustainable level so I would say you know the good news is we've had pretty minimal business closures or loss thus far you know I can think of like maybe a half dozen and they were all kind of solo renewers some folks are still running a business but they aren't renting commercial space in town anymore you know they decided that was an expense they could spare so there's been a couple of those but you know thus far we have been fortunate but I hesitate you know I don't want to be pessimistic but I want to be realistic that you know the numbers I'm aware of in terms of revenue for a lot of folks is not going to be sustainable long-term unless there's you know an intervention probably federally candidly with the amount of funding they would need but you know we're continuing to just stay in tune it's been really fortunate to have Teresa's involvement in particular she's the board chair of RW right now but being able to kind of filter up business needs to her has been great as well that kind of wraps it up for just some overview I'm happy to answer any questions and I guess the last other no I would say is we are doing some work on Jess recruiting more folks for the committee we call it the Waterbury Area Development Committee you know Bill and Mark are both involved in it but I just wanted to mention it in terms of if any of you folks on the select board know of community members who are you know chewing your ear off about business needs in our community that we'd be you know I'd be happy to talk to them about the committee and our work and we'd love to have their input you know as those folks help to kind of guide and advise me on how we can be most beneficial so yeah happy to answer any questions and thanks for that couple of minutes. Alyssa I had a question and this might be appropriate for also Karen and maybe Teresa but prior to this whole COVID thing we had a few different businesses that were looking to get into Waterbury and just wanted to kind of see what your radar was on on businesses that might be looking to invest in the downtime and are still you know looking to get into Waterbury. I would say they're certainly handful I'm not entirely sure what you're alluding to I don't know if it's darn top and the like I will say fortunately they are still on track for their office space in town and I've had you know a small number of folks here in terms of kind of bigger investments or people looking to grow I can't say I'm aware of any on the horizon kind of on like a major way again kind of there's always the flurry of smaller offices and out but they were continues to have the appeal it did before it's more I think in general we're seeing fewer folks who are working in offices there is one case I know of where someone wanted you know X amount of office space and was kind of prepping that before this and now they've come back and said actually we'd like half of X because you know our employees want to work from home you know two days a week so certainly that's an impact I think we are fortunate in particular with the state because the state office complex is owned by the state obviously that's not you know going anywhere and the other state employees in town that contract was signed pre-covid for the space that they have in Colburn Park so that's all been positive but yeah that's a general overview which is to say there isn't any kind of major new developments I would say that are drastically different than what there was pre-covid but people that were on on board prior to this are you know major major players are still still around yes great thank you the other thing I wanted to mention Alyssa just alluded to is the we are reaching out to the agency human services in particular around the Waterbury state office complex and I think probably people heard on the news last week that the governor said that most employees will be working remotely until the first of the year and that deadline keeps getting pushed out it was labor day and then now it's moved to the first of the year so you know just so you know that we are we are reaching out to those folks to see you know what what are the future what are the future plans and I don't know if everybody had seen but the commissioner of buildings and general services is moving on next week essentially and there was there was in the capital bill the authorization to tear down Wasen Hall and at one point the the state was looking to tear down both Stanley and now Wasen after the row construction is done and and potentially build additional office space there but I think I think that we probably won't see that I think there probably will be some sort of mixture of remote and onsite space and potentially space sharing you know given that they have moved to remote working fairly successfully for for most positions but they're not going to abandon the state office complex but I just think that we will see it be used in different in different ways going forward I think you'll see more co-located space you know people sharing cubicles things like that you know people working you know two days at home and three days in the office or vice versa you know there'll be more of that going on when things do start back up here in town so we also just wanted to reach out to them to let them know that we're here we're ready our businesses really want and need those state employees back working and working in town and so we hope that happens sooner rather than later so Teresa with the fact that the state is going through such economic difficulties with the COVID prior to the COVID and now with the COVID and with the transition of you know workplace in these buildings like the state complex and the ability to work from home you haven't heard any discussion about possibly any kind of cost cutting savings when it comes to either possibly leasing out part of those state buildings that aren't being so heavily used and consolidating into areas that you know if you got a number of people staying at home a number of people are working in the house that don't require the space that they have now reducing that space and either leasing it out to other types of businesses or somehow divesting themselves of properties they don't need I think I think that what would more likely happen prior to something like that Chris would be that the state would further reduce any leased space that they currently have and move additional state employees into a office sharing kind of situation down at the office complex so there's still a number of employees in Williston and that was you know one of the groups that were slated to move to Waterbury at some point in time and so I think you would see people the state reducing the amount of leased space as Alyssa said they had previously just prior to COVID had signed the lease in Pilgrim Park and obviously you know if that lease arrangement had been starting in March that lease probably would not have been signed so I think that you know we're all going to see changes with regard to how this affects work environment and workers and how they how they commute whether it's physically or if it's telecommuting you know well we're definitely going to see changes in practice the state has not been much of a at least in the agency human services I should say from my past experience had not been much for telecommuting and that obviously had to change rather abruptly and I think that they are seeing some you know benefits to to some of that and so you know like like the rest of us I am sure that state government is going to adjust as as we recover and try to return to business you know during and after this pandemic so you know long answer but I think that the first priority would be to reduce their leased space prior to sub leasing any kind of space that they might have that they that they own well at least they're moving in the right direction yes yes and and in fact you know had we not had had we not had you know march and business shut down for the last quarter of the year we the state budget actually would have had probably a near record setting surplus at the end of this year so the state coffers are actually in pretty good shape and considering that we have been in a pandemic since March you know we ended the year without having to use reserves so that's that's good that's good news for the state of Vermont a lot of other states are not in that situation that's a whole different topic going forward and we don't need to get into all that legislative stuff but going forward you know the year that we're in right now is a much different story so second question hang on just second mic and I'll get to you a second question any one of you could probably answer this somebody asked me at the other day about main street reconstruction project is it on time is it are we going to meet the timelines that we originally were supposed to meet or are we lagging a little like to chime in on that my first response is I always defer to Barb far for questions regarding mainstream reconstruction but my guess would be as far as I'm heard it's moving along Wildville if you have further yeah we're I don't know absolutely specifically Chris but McDonald's has had a pretty good year so far obviously they started about a month and a half later than they would have liked they had a lot of practice last year they have hit far fewer water means than they did a year ago that's right Alyssa so you know last year there was a lot of scrambling around trying to deal with those kind of issues they've had a season under their belt while they had a delay in starting from their perspective the lack of people in the downtown has been a good thing so you know if you think about a year ago especially Thursday Friday we had lines of traffic you know across the bridge into more town and it was tough getting through and it's a shame that it's not that way right now but for the construction it has been a little bit more of a smooth sailing they haven't had those traffic issues to deal with so I think that the last that I heard that they're pretty much on schedule to remind everyone it's supposed to finish up uh June 30th a year from now next next June 30th we'll see how far they can get into the into the winter this year last year they worked right in until December if they get that again this year I think they'll be in pretty good shape the biggest challenge that we're going to have and people really should know this now is that the utility poles in the section that the utilities are all going underground those will probably not be removed by June 30th next year I shouldn't say probably there's almost no likelihood that they will be all removed by June 30th we're hopeful that all the utilities will be underground and that the cutover will have taken place but the utility companies can't come in and remove those poles while McDonald's is still working so we're going to have to live with with that reality for longer than I think people expected when when this project started we're working with the utility companies McDonald's and V-trans to try to make sure that uh fires get lit under the right utility folks so that when the time comes where they can start removing those aerial facilities that they'll start doing it quickly but I think we're pretty much on schedule Chris uh just concerned I mean our businesses in town are obviously facing two problems one is the reconstruction project the other one is the COVID thing and the sooner we can eliminate ourselves the least one of those unfortunately I think COVID is much more detrimental to the businesses than the construction right now I mean it wasn't fun last year and business certainly probably slid a little bit last year but I think there are a lot more crowds in in businesses and especially restaurants last summer than there have been this summer so Mike go ahead Daria had a question quick question for Alyssa uh you mentioned in your report about uh some UDAC consults have those consults resulted in any applications or any activity no not thus far this was more folks um there's been two actually relatively recent with new businesses um one who's considering moving to town one that was starting a brand new business um and so it was more just that this is something that's available and kind of like a lot of the things you know I tried joke icing on the cake you know we want you to move to Waterbury regardless but if you're going to be here is this a way to tie in with that so no there hasn't been any forward progress other than um that it's a piece of the package I think in both cases or in two of the cases at least I know um at least I think from Bill and ifa's perspective the hope would be it would be in collaboration with other funding for two of them I've been working with um federal SBA actually does have some incentives because of COVID through the end of September so if we're able to get um small business financing essentially there's some they'll make six months of payments basically so I think that would be the ultimate dream but yes in terms of those three inquiries there hasn't been anything further aside from the action that e-fight commissioners talked about was that new loans and again Bill's really the point person there yeah the the three the three uh potential borrowers that Alyssa has alluded to Mike I've been in contact with them uh there's there's one pretty active one right now well actually two uh and uh we'll see where it comes down but the the district still has its UDAG fund there are funds available to be to be loaned right now and if we can get out the door and help somebody open up a business we're doing what we can with it but frankly you know the last year um it's about this time last year there has been more activity more inquiries about UDAG than there had been for probably three years before that the utility district passed one big loan last year and made two substantial loans one late in 2019 and one in early 2020 and I've had four inquiries now this year one of them talked to me about three weeks before the COVID crisis struck and they've just kind of disappeared from the face of the earth as far as any communication with me right now and I I can't go into detail who it is but you would all know the business but it's just it's a challenge right now for for some of these that had plans to expand and things were looking very rosy and and it just kind of uh at the drop of a hat all kind of dried up for them so we'll see where it goes and I'll just add though it is obviously EFUD funds and not yours it's definitely great to have you know there had been a whole legislative proposal that you know Bill was involved in and brought to the EFUD commissioners and they approved which didn't actually move forward but it's just to say I think the state is aware that there's pockets of money like UDAG and is thinking about if there's ways to maybe leverage some of the federal um cares money to help get it out there in a way that works um because you know adding on Bill there's been a lot of activity and not to put my own feet to the fire but I think figuring out a way to support um more of the lending without it all falling on Bill's plate has been something that's been talked about and I think continues to be something that would be great to do just so that's not me saying here's the you know typewritten version of the 1996 UDAG loan docs but it does exist and please come talk to me about it but just it's an asset for the community and I know some communities either don't have a fund or have it all lent out to one person right now so they're just not in the position to even to discuss lending. So the the EFUD commissioners are meeting on Wednesday this week and as Alyssa suggested you know the Scott administration a couple of months ago had made a proposal to try to use these revolving loan funds the state was his proposal was for the state to guarantee loans to to guarantee interest payments and you know that's something that the legislature just could not buy into for a variety of reasons and the legislature passed something a little bit differently. Historically the EFUD UDAG loan has been restricted to within the village limits the commissioners have already agreed to lend in the entire town of Waterbury outside the EFUD district if there were a business that wanted to use it for that. Frankly they're going to be talking on Wednesday with the director of the Central Vermont Economic Development Corporation of which the town is a member and he's trying to kind of use what the legislature did and the Scott administration proposal and you know maybe there there'd be an interest in using that money to lend to businesses even outside of you know if there's a business over in more town on the other side of the bridge that might need some help we've got a revolving loan fund so we're everybody's trying to keep an open mind about how we deal with the needs in this in this new environment that we have understanding that you know keeping a business going in more town that comes into Waterbury to to buy supplies or to come in to just you know have a business lunch or something is maybe a good thing to do. So it's a whole new world in economic development and we're trying to use the tools that we have to use them to the best of the advantage to the community so that's where we are right now. Okay then we're all interconnected just for sure. Mark, Nat, are you guys all set? Yeah I hope good. I just before you move on to the next topic I just wanted to in my changing hats now in my hat as president of the RW board I just wanted to say thank you to the town to the select board for the continuing support of revitalizing Waterbury during this time and recognizing the vital role that we play and supporting our community businesses and just our overall vitality of our community. So you know knowing that the town took you know many steps during these last several months to reduce expenditures and we appreciate the fact that revitalizing Waterbury was not on that list and hopefully you continue to feel satisfied with the work that we're doing to support not only our downtown but really our whole community. So we just wanted to thank you. Yeah I was going to ask you both there you and Karen if you had anything further to say and I just want to let you people know that your organization is very important to the town of Waterbury. It's a part of a big issue that you know quite frankly if it were in the select board's hands everything that you people do if it were in the select board's hands I don't think it truly get the attention that that you guys give to it being a separate organization so that it's a very very you know it's a great organization and I think it's very important to the survival of the business down and I know we all appreciate everything you guys do but we don't perhaps all see it. We know that you work hard at it. Chris I'll say thank you for that and pretty much I've been quiet here but mostly because Alyssa has it totally covered and is able to answer your questions well. Revitalizing Waterbury's mission is very broad it's preserve promote and enhance the economic social and historic vitality of the town for residents businesses and visitors. Economic development is a huge component of what we do. There's so many other pieces we get a lot of support from the community and we had a lot of support from the town and we really appreciate it. I think we can all honestly say we love what we do and we love the town we live in and we work in and we work for and so we're just doing the best we can. Anytime you have questions or need help or need something reach out to us we're here to give a hand. We all set then we move on to our next item. Thank you very much. Thank you all. Yes thank you. So it's managers items time set in the tax rate oh boy something we all like to do. You're muted Bill. I'm happy that we're able to take it up tonight. As of 4.15 on Friday it didn't look like we'd be able to do this because we hadn't received the information from the state. It finally came very late on Friday afternoon and I emailed you all on Saturday after I came in and worked on things here for a couple of hours and then this morning was told by Carla that the Department of Taxes sent us the wrong information which meant it had to be done again. Unfortunately the information that was wrong was that they had just flipped the homestead tax rate and the non homestead tax rates and you know they're within a couple of 10,000th places of each other so it wasn't a major issue. It didn't really change anything very much. The non homestead tax rate went up about four cents. No it went up about eight cents and if it could have been a lot worse than it was. So anyway this afternoon I sent you out a corrected sheet that looks like this. I sent you two of them. One has the homestead tax rate and the non homestead tax rate at .7368 and 1.7314 respectively. My recommendation for the municipal tax rate is to set it at 51 cents which is the same as it was a year ago. If you remember at town meeting the voters gave the town the authority to set the tax rate up to 55 cents for a variety of reasons none of which involved COVID. I had recommended that we set a tax rate as opposed to approve an amount of taxes to be raised and given the fact that the voters went along with that it allows us a little bit of flexibility. Late this afternoon when I sent that last email out to you I sent two versions of a budget. They update what I went over with you in May when I made my first projections about the new budget with COVID in mind. And either way we do it I think we have the ability to set a 51 cent tax rate. I know that that dampens or diminishes the amount of money that we're going to take. It gives away if you will about $305,000 to the community that we would otherwise collect if we set a 55 cent tax rate that $305,000 of course will impact our budget. But I think given the steps that we took to reduce expenses both through cutting back on some of the projects that we were going to do some of the supplies that we were going to buy and most importantly by following a number of people we have the ability to pretty much withstand that. One quick word on the budgets before I let you ask questions about the tax rate. The two that I sent you on the upper right hand corner of the first page one of them shows a $42,747 deficit and the other one shows a $301,587 deficit. The one with the smaller deficit $42,747. I've updated the revenues based on what I think we'll probably receive this year. As I said in the email this tax rate that I'm proposing is 51 cents. The one that we talked about in May was 50 cents. So that gains about $76,000 for us. But everything else about what we were doing going forward with that particular budget stayed in place. So in that one we withheld about $245,000 worth of transfers to CIPs. And if we don't make those transfers or don't make all of them as we had originally budgeted I'm thinking that we come out with about a $42,000, $43,000 deficit. The other one that shows the $301,000 deficit I that one made all of the transfers to the CIP except a $5,000 transfer from the parks department. And I just wanted to see if we kept our obligations to ourselves and put that money into the CIPs as we had planned where we would where we would end up. And that would leave us with about a $300,000 deficit which if we had to pick that back in one year which is not necessary but if we wanted to that would add about four cents to the tax rate next year just by itself. The last thing I want to say is that I believe some of the revenue projections that I have in both of these instances are a little bit conservative. For instance we budgeted $208,000 in pilot payments. Both of these budgets still project $156,000 of pilot payment to the general fund plus some to the highway fund. I think we're probably going to get all of our pilot payment in 2020 that we had planned upon until the check is in the bank. I'm not going to promise that but I've left these projections of state transfers where I projected them in May thinking worst-case scenario. So the pilot payment, the forest and parks payment and the current use payments I think they're all going to be better than they show on this paper. I can't promise that we'll get everything but I think it will be better than on this paper. So for my money setting a 51 cent municipal tax rate puts us in a position where for the homestead with the school increase and a 51 cent tax rate for the municipal side it would be a two and a half percent increase and for the non homestead side of things if we left the tax rate at 51 cents it would be about a 3.85 percent increase. If we raise the full 55 cents that we're able to raise it's about 4.3 percent on the homestead side and about 5.6 percent 5.7 percent on the non homestead side. As I told you before back in May I think there are a lot of people out there that are hurting. I think there are a lot of businesses that are going to have a tough time and if we can give them this break I appreciate that we end up holding the bag a little bit with some of this money but I think we as the municipality given municipal finance law are able to withstand a deficit better than a lot of our taxpayers can. So my recommendation is the 51 cent municipal tax rate and with that I'll stop and let you ask questions make comments and then it's ultimately your decision. Or to have anything for Bill? Nat? Mark? I can't see Nat and Mark that's why I'm asking them. The other two might go ahead. Yeah I took a look at Bill's spreadsheets you know over dinner tonight I know they came in at five o'clock so didn't have a good long look at them but I think everything's reasonable I think I think we need to be very cognizant with everything that's happening with COVID with our business population with our residents hurting I think being as conservative as we can be with with a 51 percent rate as Bill has recommended I think that to me that's still just a way to go. Well it's kind of liberal Mike in that we're giving away money to a degree I understand what you're saying but I'm just half joking with you. I would echo that Mark Mike and I would say I agree with you Bill I mean in the business that I'm in I'm seeing I'm seeing all of my costs I'm seeing all of my costs for everything that I do going up every single material that I use going up day by day by day just because there's a massive shortage of materials out there and I can't I can't just turn around and turn that into a cost increase for my customer in the amount that I charge and for somebody like me it's a comfort to know that the tax rate is would be the same as last year and you know it's a baseline it's a baseline for me it's a it's a you know taxes are as they say inevitable but if I know that there's going to be a huge increase this year that gives me a little cost for alarm so I think we owe it to I think I think you're right Bill I think we owe it to the taxpayers to absorb a little and kind of hold the line as a lot of people are doing right now people are holding online my two cents well unfortunately it has to come out out in the wash somewhere you know I'm going to say this Bill we've made some reasonable headway on our infrastructure last thing I want to see is start to fall back on that well we haven't we have not proposed to reduce you know certainly the paving we're going to do all the paving that we plan to do we did the project but I think that you know I'm I'm encouraged by the projections that I see because as I said I'm thinking that some of the revenue that I projected as lower is actually going to come in a little bit higher you know and I acknowledge right now I'm I think I told you the same thing back in May when I first made this proposal that you know the goal is to help people survive through the present year and then you know we'll see where we end up we're going to end up you know where we end up is where we're going to end up and you know we're given a little bit away right now by by setting a little bit lower tax rate but I think that we're in a position that if we have to we just move into next year and we we have to say to departments and other boards you know you're going to have to do it a little bit less I I'm not suggesting that that all the cuts that we may have to think about have been done already I mean I told you at the last meeting that we've called all the employees back I think we'll probably keep them all back for this year given everything that we've got to do going forward there's no there's no guarantees about anything so I think that I'm just trying to provide a little bit of buffer if you will to the taxpayer out there right now and we'll worry about next year next year yeah no I understand that I just I don't think you know I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop here um you know what are the likelihood of pilot getting pilot payments this year sounds even pizza was not in her head there a little bit at confident that we'll receive that money if we don't receive we receive only 50 percent of that next year we saw all this federal money that's being put out right now on that can continue to go on if come next year that all kind of falls apart to some degree you know where's that going to leave us next year yeah there's a lot of challenges ahead and I think the I think as far as pilot is concerned I could almost guarantee you that next year's pilot payment will definitely be less I just don't think there's any way that the the local option tax from um you know June from July 1st this year through June 30th next year will be anywhere close to what it was a year ago even with um you know the fact that there were four or five months of declining revenue in our system this year but um we'll have to deal with it when we get to next year's budget I mean I'm getting mixed mixed signals there on on people in the economy and how they're doing I mean uh coming back from delivering a couple pieces of equipment to Marchield yesterday I drove by the two of the camper trailer sales and it was just loaded with people uh from what I've heard they're buying up campers I hollered on the radio to my buddy there and said uh at the rate these campers are being bought up there's not gonna be enough campgrounds to go around you know uh people are buying buying four wheelers they're buying new vehicles I don't know how many paper plates I've seen on the back of people you know people's brand new cars that they're buying uh you're hearing that money to some people their money's pouring out their ears and others are starving um I guess my long and the short question here is does the board have any stomach for any kind of a consideration go a little higher than 51 or do you want to stick at 51 I think all that either take the take the pain now or take the pain later I guess is is funny you know I'm trying to mitigate worst pain later I don't know yeah I think I'm gonna echo Bill's recommendation and suggest we go with 51 just to help ease any kind of impact others are facing right now because I think it is a mix I think some people are doing well but I think some are some others are are really hurting um and I think we need to consider that Chris we don't know if uh uh there will be pain later and I'm hoping that it's not I'm hoping that we do have see a rebound next year in the economy you know COVID kind of goes on the way and you know I can only be positive about that but this year we have too many people and I hear what you're saying you know I'm a fiscal conservative but I think this is the wrong year it's kind of like when we had Irene we had a lot of people hurting right after Irene and you wouldn't want to see big tax increases right after Irene even though there was a lot of need and stuff to happen I think now's just not the right time to have a tax increase I hear you that some people are doing well some people you know there are certain parts of the economy that's doing excellent but there are a lot of parts of the economy that are really hurting and I think you know as a board I I can only support Bill's recommendation for 51 percent it gets us to where we need and if we need to do something next year next year we'll have to have some pain and I agree with you we don't we don't we're not deferring projects for the most part we're getting things done it's just we're gonna run a little bit of a deficit so Bill you know Mike talking there just kind of brought something to my mind there with the stock market going ridiculously crazy like it is have we uh have we gained uh in our portfolios a substantial amount that you worth you know skimmins them off here a little bit before are you just well I'll I'll look at it again remember though um I actually did sell uh significant portions of our portfolio back in February when it was at the absolute high and it was just dumb luck I mean I didn't know COVID was coming but the stock market was at a pretty much all time high we had done very well so I did sell off some men and then we had a pretty precipitous drop from you know March through June I didn't look at all of the portfolios today but I did look at one and saw that you know our losses in that particular portfolio which had been like $15,000 a couple months ago now the loss was about $1,500 so it's come it's come back up I will certainly look at all that stuff um and you know I'm not a big believer in market timing but probably before the end of the year we probably sell some uh some more of it um you know it sounds like the COVID situation is going to get worse before it gets better and uh I was listening to something on the way down here tonight and they were saying that you know the the market tries to look ahead and and the market has kind of envisioned that the legislature the Congress will eventually get something done as far as uh another um uh support system for for the economy for the unemployed and and the like so they're kind of banking on that it's going to be done and that's why the market keeps going up so I'll look at it and see what we can do but I think that um right now it looks like we're not going to have no one near as bad of a two years as we did in 2008-09 when when everything crashed through the bottom and stayed down there for quite a while okay well from the consensus that I'm hearing there it's 51 cents um so rather than be labor it any further if somebody'd like to make a motion to uh tax rate at bill suggested 51 cents we can get her done I make a motion to set the tax to town tax rate at 51 cents for this fiscal year I'll second any further discussion no and just caring Mike you'll agree that your motion includes setting the homestead and the non-homestead tax rates as as dictated by the state right okay thanks all right all those who wish to approve this motion say aye aye passes okay that's the pain for tonight fees for copies of documents yeah this sounds like pretty foolish to even talk about after just talking about millions of dollars of taxes but um we are living in a situation where our office is still closed and looks like given the guidance that we're getting in terms of having to take down all kinds of contract contact tracing information and everything else that will probably remain closed except by appointment only for the foreseeable future and um you know people call and they want copies of certain things and as I indicated in the memo that I sent you or the email that I sent you there's a couple things that there are prescribed fees by state statute that Carla has to to go by and then we also have a fee that we kind of piggyback that piggyback on that for lists or cards and tax tax bills but if people call up now and they you know they want their zoning file sent to them we're just asking that the select board authorize us to charge 25 cents a page for that I sent a I didn't remember to print out the email that I sent you so there's a motion there that if somebody still has that in front of them can be made and we'll be all set in front of me if you want me to do it all right please I move the fee for copies of public documents other than those already set pertaining to town clerk records blister cards and tax bill be set at 25 cents per page whether the copies are physical or electronic in addition if physical copies are sent by us mail the postage cost will be added job Katie most like you'd almost thought you read that for a second to that motion please a second that okay not any further discussion don't believe so so all that which to approve that motion oh Mike's got a question just quickly and Bill may know this uh do we have any fees for notary services Aaron she's getting her head taken her head no okay just curious no and right now we're we're pushing those services off to other people for the most part anyway okay thank you I'm sorry Carly did start taking appointments this week for notary excuse me last week for notary services but just began that again right thanks Karen okay motion has been made and seconded all those in favor say aye please hi hi hi okay last item on the agenda issues for consideration for our next meeting and we already have one yeah well for future meetings it says it doesn't necessarily mean the next meeting but there's a couple of issues that have come up you heard about the one tonight with regard to the encampment up there across from Patrick Brooke I wanted to make sure that you knew about that I'll try to work with the state police and get something done there I'll look at the village's old ordinance for discharging firearms and see if there's something that we can do with that but I I'm pretty confident Chris that there is no ability to pass an ordinance that just says you know you can't camp we can we can prohibit camping on municipal land and and then we can issue notices of no trespass if it's land at the town owns but just having a blanket ordinance that's saying it's illegal to be homeless I don't think we can do that um a couple of other issues that have come up just in case you hear about them I've had a couple of phone calls last week about the incident of rats down on South Main Street in the vicinity of where Napa is evidently some people down there had chickens and were feeding the chicken's grain and you know the river's right there and I think it's been attractive to the rooms I went down there today to try to to to see what I could find I didn't see anything I did tell the one of the women who called me that the mere presence of rats does not indicate a public health hazard and the town only has authority to deal with through the town health officer with public health issues a number of years ago I think Chris you were on the board but we had a big rat problem on Stow Street and we spent a lot of money we spent about $10,000 trying to deal with that situation it was a unique situation not like this one but if you hear about it I am looking into it I'm doing what I can do but it's not clear that we have major authority and I told the person I said it sounds to me like you need to get an exterminator and you need to get them to come into your house and and deal with it you're only going to get rid of them if you get rid of the king and queen rat basically and unless you get into their den it's hard to do that um we have another issue uh down on Little River Road people there are starting to call because a former home that was owned and maybe still listed to a guy by the name of Sanborn it's the first house on the left after you go under the interstate bridges going down to Little River it's an abandoned home I think the person who owns it is in jail it's pretty dilapidated for one reason the bank continues to pay the taxes on it so we've never been able to put it out for tax sale I have sent letters to asking them to you know board it up to secure the property to no avail uh somebody has just moved a camper into that yeah outside that home and uh there's people down at Little River who are a little bit concerned about that I drove down there today I did not see anyone so um I'll look into that as well um that used to be Charlie Charlie Ashley's house the one that burnt yeah yeah and I think um I think that's it um oh and your your issue chris yeah I did uh have a call from a resident the other day interested in possibly looking at some guidelines uh in reference to air b&b's and uh trying to restrict the hell raising I guess that's going on some of these air b&b's um I guess there's been 45 complaints on one particular place up on Perry Hill and uh you know there's others that have had to call cops to intervene to stop the midnight ruckus um yeah we can uh perhaps take a look at it what we can do to get that as well anything else from the rest of the board concerns they're all happy happy the only thing as I mentioned earlier that the Bush Hill access there still continues to be issues up there and I don't know you know people parking in the trail of turnaround spaces but it's just I don't know maybe we we need the state police up there more frequently you know I'd like to state police won't write tickets like for that kind of thing they told us from the beginning but you know it's it's much I find it's much better than it than it has been I I was up there on Thursday afternoon up there until about 4 30 quarter five but there was no one parked on the side of the road going down to the to the reservoir there were some people that were you know the problem is some people just consider it in terms of how they parked down at the turnaround itself um they shouldn't leave large trailers down there people just kind of park every which way down there and and it's just time to negotiate but I think it's much better than it was in the spring time when when everybody in their brother was out there no you're right that that's the parking on the side where no parking I think is kind of uh adjusted itself I know I I particularly left the message someone was parked in that turnaround area and they they were there and I came back five hours later and the car was there still parked right in front of the no parking sign and I've seen that a few times and especially for those of us that have boats it makes it very difficult to turn around boats and I I know we probably have a very difficult time to administer tickets or something like that and I even called the state police and said well you should have called when we were there when when you were right there and they might have come right down and I probably will do that next time I've gotten several emails and voicemails from my friends who have boats that they're pretty much all waterskiers and they set the waterskiing course down there and I've encouraged them to in a non-confrontational way leave a note say say here's my cell phone number I would like to teach you how to be a better user and just you know try to try to get some form of communication going and to try to get people talking to other people that maybe they just don't know any better maybe they just don't have the common sense it takes to know that their gigantic pickup truck with their massive trailer sticking out the road one foot beyond the next car is a big problem and just you know get an open line of communication going and let's get back to civility and let's talk to each other and we call ourselves results well we tried to you know education is uh we're wearing out this definition of education some point you you got to have a clue I've said I've said that to people too when I'm up there you know you say it in a very polite way say you know this is they say oh we're just here for just a very short time we're going to be picking up our kayaks or something like that I say it's a really difficult time when boats are trying to turn around that you're here I know it'd be great if you can just you know move to another area and they were very nice and you know the people were from shellburn and you know not from out of state or anything and they were just very respectful and I think as Matt says you need to educate people that's the really key yeah and you don't need to be a jerk about it I mean you don't need to you don't need to leave notes that say hey stop being a blah blah blah you need to just talk to people educate them yeah we all want to share the lake together right exactly okay people a nice visiting with you again but uh I haven't eaten since 10 o'clock this morning and overdue so somebody wants to make a motion to adjourn it all go and do our own thing so moved thanks back in a second all right audios people till next time thank you