 It's Wednesday, it's 11 o'clock, and that could only mean one thing. Trump week. I'm Tim Apachella, and I'm your host today, and I'm here with Jay Fidel, who's another host. Jay, welcome. How are ya? Thank you, Tim. It's great to be here with you. It's very important that we discuss Trump week. This is the week that was, man. I'll tell you. Were you watching? I have been watching not as much as I want to because I have another job at the time, and so that's getting the way of me watching history being unfolded before the history of the live TV, and it's being unfolded, and guess what? I'm missing it. Yeah, and that's okay because the flavor of this is already established, isn't it? The flavor of this seems to be that everybody's in lockstep. I think I'm going to have a tattoo on my arm. He's going to say 53-47, 53 votes with the Republicans, and 47 with Democrats. It never changes. They went through eight possible amendments, all of which were valuable, important, valid, and every single time the Republicans voted against it, 53-47. What does this mean? What do you take from this? Well, I mean, you've already said it. They've been in lockstep, and this actually is a holdover from the House hearings. I've seen no crack in the veneer, so to speak. Bottom line is one of the more important votes that was taking place yesterday, which was denied, 53-47, was the idea that John Roberts would decide whether or not something would go or not, and they voted that down. So they don't want an impartial judge to look at the proceedings and whether or not it's valid to bring in evidence or not valid to bring in evidence. They don't want John Powers, Justice Powers, to make that decision. Now, isn't that odd? It is, and I think that was directed mostly at Bolton, and the reality is that Bolton was right there with Trump. He's a very good witness, and he definitely should be testifying here. He refused to testify in the House, in the House proceeding, and there were all kinds of misstatements and lies about that, I must say, in the remarks made by the Republican lawyers. But now he's not going to get a chance to testify in the Senate either. I'll bet you five bucks right now, he never testifies in the Senate. I wouldn't make that bet at this point. Let me ask you this. So yesterday we had more than 11 hours of both sides stating their case. How do you think they did, particularly the introduction with McConnell and Schiff? How do you think they did? Well, I didn't see the whole thing as you and other things, but I did see a lot of the arguments made on the motions in general by the Democrats, by Schiff specifically, and also Nadler. And Schumer, he didn't argue so much, but he was involved in the effort. And I must say that I thought they were brilliant. They were right. They were correctly stating the points that needed to be stated. They were speaking in the right tone to the country, and they were speaking beyond just this Senate trial. They were speaking about the future of the Constitution and the country. And I happened to agree with what they were saying. So I think it's very important that they said those things. Regrettably, the Republicans did not do nearly as well. They made really cockamamie arguments, and they were wrong, and they were mistaken. And in many cases, they were obviously lying, lying about things that we know they knew about. So it was very hard to listen to that. It was hard to listen to the Republicans. I really zone out when somebody's lying to me and making it sound like it's truth. It's the alternative facts again. So if you ask me how the Democrat team did, I would say they did really well. And I said to my wife over and over again, these guys are top, top fight. Well, I think first class lawyers, yeah. I think they took the time to lay it out and lay it out in a way that not only are the senators going to understand it, because you do have two audiences here. One is obviously the senators. But the bigger audience, the most maybe the more important audience is the American public. And whether that's going to come into play here for this this trial or come into play 10 months down the road for the election. But that is the audience that we have here. And I quite frankly think the Republican senators are taking note of that. And also, I think that as they laid out the case yesterday, I think the Republicans were flat footed. I don't think they prepared well enough to respond to how well the Democrats, Schiff and Schumer, how well they laid that out. They don't have any arguments and they don't have any evidence. So they don't have a lot to work with, I must say. So they come up with these cockamamie arguments that go nowhere. And the question is whether people watching because a lot of people are watching, even though McConnell tried to put this in the middle of the night. Fact is that a lot of people are watching. It's hard not to watch, at least for me anyway. But one of the most interesting elements is that somebody, I guess it was a news reporter or someone asked Schiff, why go through all these motions? Why try to amend the McConnell's rules for the proceedings? Why do you when you know the result is going to be the same each time? Why do you do that? And Schiff's answer was very core. He said, because we want the public to know what our evidence is. It's like an offer of proof in court under the federal rules. It's an offer to say, if we have a chance to submit evidence, this is what the evidence will show you. So let us submit the evidence. But in the meantime, he's telling them, he's telling the Senate and he's telling the public, he's telling the world what his evidence is and what will come out. And that was his methodology, that was his strategy. And I think it was really good, really well done. Well, and I think what's interesting is if that is the crux of the argument right now, that evidence is not going to be submitted either in the form of witnesses or documents. And it seems that the Republican response to these two articles of impeachment are not disputing that which is laid out. They're just saying it's a nothing burger. Don't look this way. There's no, there's been no crime. We don't disagree with what's been laid out. We just disagree the fact that this is not an impeachable offense. So if you if you follow that line of logic, OK, so why not allow the evidence? And if you already agree that the the evidence isn't really the issue and it's just the overall charge, then why not allow the the evidence into play? And I don't know if that's hitting its mark. Well, it's Mark isn't the Senate because the Senate is all under Trump's control, and a lot of this goes to the obstruction point. You know, because if you did look at the evidence, especially the GAO determination that what he did was against the law, that's a government agency saying that a government agency well equipped to say that, you know, I don't think there's any issue, but that he broke the law and he should be acquitted on what rather convicting on what he did. However, however, what we are seeing in the Senate is a continuation of the obstruction. This Trump is the guy that is telling all of them, you know, to not take evidence, to not hear witnesses and to vote in a block fifty three forty seven on everything against the Democrats, against the case, against the impeachment. This is just another expression of that obstruction. Now, the question to me is what about the guy in Middle America? Let's say he's either independent or moderate and, you know, he's not he's not committed to one side or the other. What effect does this have on him or her? And I think the answer really should be if we still have a sentient population, a sentient electorate out there. I'm not sure these days, you know, that it would be my God. These people are trying to cover everything up. They don't want us to know what happens. They are obscuring the facts, the evidence, and they're lying about the, you know, all the events that took place. And so I would I would be outraged about that. I would be outraged about that now. I would be more outraged if and I think this will happen. The Senate votes to acquit. And finally, I would carry my outrage forward through the elections in November, not only for Trump, but for every senator who did this. This is such a violation of good order, of morality, of the Constitution, of all of the things we hold dear. These guys, 5347, it should be emblazoned on their mind and memory. They should be living in this 5347 world for the rest of their lives, unless their careers in the Senate, which I hope will be short. One of the interesting things that occurs to me is the thing about the mystery witness who, you know, said he would testify. He's not so mystery. Bolton, who said he would testify for the Senate if he was subpoenaed. And then the Democrats make a motion to have him subpoenaed and the Republicans vote against that. So Bolton will probably not be called or at least that motion has been tabled and they'll vote against it later and 5347. And he won't he won't testify. And now Bolton, we know Bolton is motivated by book sales. He's writing a book and he wants to, you know, get that book out. And this is every time his name is mentioned in these proceedings. And it has been mentioned many times. It's more likely that he'll sell copies of his book. So the question really is, how does his book play on this? He's not going to publish his book until after, I think things are over. Absolutely. Yeah, that's until this is all done. Then it's going to be popular. I mean, I I wouldn't buy it as a matter of principle. I don't want to hear what that man has to say. Well, I think a lot of people in the country will buy it and he'll have big book sales and it'll have a big effect. And there'll be others too. You know, evidence is going to come out after this is forthcoming acquittal. Well, it's coming out of the draps and draps. It's it's it's coming out as we speak. The Freedom of Information Act is kicking in and all these documents are rolling in. But the argument that Republicans are stating is, well, you should have asked for this stuff when you were having the impeachment hearings and you didn't do it. You didn't you didn't get the you didn't go through the courts to to get Bolton and Mulvaney and and Giuliani here as witnesses. You should have gone through the court system to resolve that. And that's what the courts are set up for. But let's forget the most let's not forget the most important element of that. It takes months and months and months to actually get a decision to have this adjudicated and it's not being adjudicated quickly. So therefore it it would be well after the election before this these decisions would have been rendered. So the argument is we would love to but we don't have time. We don't have any time to do that. And then the second thing that I thought was a travesty is the fact that they're trying to do a trade, if you will. You give us Biden's son to come as a witness and we'll give you we'll give you Bolton. What is that all about? A Biden son has nothing to do with the direct implication of Trump's guilt or innocence. Right. I mean, it's a distraction. It's a Trump a Trump is a Trump distraction, which actually brings us to Trump because he's he's behind all this. He's got a nose. Absolutely. He's behind the machinations that went on during the House hearings about how they refused to appear and testify. No government agency gave documents. All these people were acting terribly in violation of the Constitution and the clear separation of powers in the Constitution. I don't know how they can live with themselves. They should have the fifty three forty seven emblazoned on them on them, too, because they participated in this cabal. So so so now information will come out. It is coming out. And after the forthcoming acquittal, we will we will see it leak out in which ways. Books and who knows documents. How will Trump react? I mean, he's he's had a full court press going on for a long time to stop anything from coming out. He knows he's guilty. He knows he should be impeached. But he drills down and he, you know, is on a full, full tilt campaign to stop the proceedings against him. So now soon he wins in the in the Senate, if he looks like he's going to do that, actually. And it's after the acquittal. And on the one hand, he's going to say, I was vindicated. I was exonerated. I am innocent. That call was just perfect. Perfect. You you hear me? And then, OK, he's going to try to do the same things. But it's worse, Tim, because, you know, he's going to see himself as a president who is not responsible to anyone who can do anything he wants. Now, he's always felt that way. But the government has not, you know, agreed, admitted that that he can do that. There's still resistance, at least to some extent, not in the Senate, but at least in the House. Once he's exonerated, once he's acquitted, he's going to be, you know, much worse. He's going to be liberated to do this every day and nobody will be able to stop him. This will change our government, will change our country. It's hard to imagine all the things that he is going to do. And it's hard to imagine how they are going to affect you and me and all our friends and neighbors. We're going to be living in a different place when he's acquitted. Well, you know, Jay, I'll go ahead. I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah, I my question to you, if you don't mind discussing it is, what is he going to do, if anything, to stop this information from coming out? Because obviously this is the tipping point. He's acquitted. The information is inclined to come out. People are outraged when they read Baltimore's book and other things. And, you know, it doesn't look good for him in the election or in the reelection of those senators. So what does Trump do? Because he's not going to sit quietly on the side at that point. He's going to have a strategy to deal with this information and how to put it down. So it doesn't affect the reelection in November. What do you think he's going to do? Well, it's a two-part answer. The first part of the answer is going to go to something you said a little bit earlier here. And that is I don't compare this his ability to say I'm exonerated. I'm not guilty. It was a perfect call. He's not going to get away with that as easily as he did. Remember when the Mueller case was squashed and he said I'm exonerated and, you know, I did nothing wrong. It's very easy to counter his argument by saying you aren't exonerated. This trial was a sham because no evidence was ever admitted. We weren't able to bring in witnesses or documents. Therefore, your victory lap dance, it's not valid. So I think he's going to have a hard time with that counter criticism that he's innocent and it was a perfect call. I don't think that goes easy for him. Number two is he's going to get these again, this flood of new documents from between now and the election. And I don't think he's going to be able to stop it. And I don't think he's going to be able to counter the books that are going to come out. I think he'll do what he's always done and that is name call somebody come up with a nickname that you normally come up with in third grade and just repeat that nonstop and get his agents, if you will, his lackeys, his loyal lackeys to do the same and just drum that in day in and day out, name calling and say how no credibility, false information, fake news, witch hunt and they'll just keep on that bent. But at some point that gets old and even the Trump supporter may go, you know what, there was a lot of smoke and I saw some fire here because I didn't see a trial. I saw a sham. I keep waiting for the people to rise up. But, you know, they really haven't. And 5347 shows you that no senator was impressed with constituents who told them not to do that. They all operate under McConnell and Trump, ultimately Trump. So he's been successful. And you got to give him that, he's fighting a war every day. You know, even his trip to Davos and Switzerland, talk about economics was only a distraction. It's part of his way of dealing with an impeachment. You know, you have an impeachment trial, go to Davos, go to Switzerland, ignore it. But the fact is his agents and his lackeys, as you said, are working on it. So I think two things are gonna happen after the trial is over. And I'm assuming that it'll be an acquittal because there's been no defections so far, really, at all. One is that, remember, he has commandeered all of his agencies. There's nobody pushing back anymore, seems like to me. The State Department, he owns it. You know, he's shown that he can hurt them and beat them and punish them. And he's got a secretary of state who is behind him, full tilt. The Department of Justice, same thing. It's been hollowed out. You know, even FEMA has been hollowed out. There's no actual director of FEMA yet. And of course, we have scandal after scandal about how Trump has dumped on Puerto Rico. And then you have the Department of Education. You have, I mean, every federal agency, the military, the Joint Chiefs, anybody pushing back there? Ah, they go along with him. Everybody's intimidated. So that's one thing. And he's gonna continue the same policies, immigration, homeland security, same thing. He's gonna continue the same policies with the people who respond to him and who he can intimidate. And so we're gonna see more of the same, but worse because he's gonna know that nobody will stop. The other thing, and this is what I really worry about, is that as you said, the risk for him is this information coming out. Whether it's coming out by newspapers, books, it'll come out on the media, CNN, MSNBC, what have you, Washington Post, the New York Times. He's been attacking them and attacking the press. And successfully so for a lot of medium-sized media around the country. He owns the FCC. Anyway, what is very troubling is he's gonna have the opportunity to attack the media. And I'm telling you now, in my opinion, he will attack the media. He'll spend a lot of time attacking the Times, the Post. He'll call them the same names he's called them and worse. He'll take action against them through his attorney general and one trumped up lawsuit or another. He'll be fighting with them hand and fist, try to undermine their credibility and their business model and their connection with their readers and viewers. So that's gonna be a big problem. And that leaves critical thinking on the part of American voters. Many of which who have been disenrolled thanks to the efforts of the Republican Party. Well, let me react to that for a moment. And that is, yeah, he's gonna criticize the press just like he has for the last three years. But at some point, it's an old song sheet and the effectiveness of that criticism starts to lose its power. And we're actually, between now and the next 10 months, the hearts and souls really is the independent voter. And they haven't made up their mind about Donald Trump yet. In fact, they're starting to lean the other way. I was watching some independence in Arizona. You know, that's a highly contested state. It's a critical state for that Senate race and independence are being interviewed and they all said the same thing. It's obvious that he's scared and he's concerned and that's why he's not letting evidence in on this trial. And they were acknowledging that he's got something to hide and for good reason. And they're also acknowledging that the protocols of the Constitution are not being followed. Congress has been stripped of its authoritative powers and they're seeing the reality of that. So it's the independent voter that's gonna make the difference here. And I don't think by attacking the media day in and day out wins any points for those independent voters that will probably get out of their armchair and go to the polls in 2020. I sure hope you're right. And that is the bright spot here that maybe in this formerly great country of ours there are enough voters who see clearly based on what's happening. And maybe Trump's calculation and McConnell's calculation is all wrong. They're trying to make this into a sham trial successfully but it's so obvious what they're doing. 53-47 over and over again even when these motions to amend McConnell's rules are so reasonable and so appropriate that the guy sitting in his armchair in middle America will see this. He will watch this thing in the middle of the night and he will see this and he will remember this and he will use critical thinking to find to realize as you say that this president, this administration is all wrong. They are guilty of sin and they have to go including all the senators who backed them up. We have really, we got a hope on that. I don't have a lot of confidence but hearing it from you, Tim, it sounds like something that actually might happen and that would be the light at the end of the tunnel. Well, before we get to that light let me ask this question. Given after most likely Donald Trump will be acquitted here in this impeachment trial what does that do regarding the further divide of our national population? Republicans versus Democrat what does that do for the national divide? What does that look like? You know, I was telling you that frontline, right? I admire them very, very much. They're a journalistic organization and they make documentaries for PBS mostly. You're gonna look at their documentaries on the web for free. And they made a couple of documentaries, each one, well, it's one series, two hours long, two separate documentaries they call the America the Great Divide and it's sort of an examination of how this divide appeared during and connection with the Obama administration and how Trump saw that and took advantage of it and he's exacerbating it during his administration. I think it's very good reporting is very, I hate to use the word balance because balance sometimes is a way of favoring one party or the other, but I think it's well done. It's factual, it's thoughtful and this is something that every American ought to watch. And what it says in large part is that the divide in this country has existed for a long time. It has emerged during the last few administrations before Obama where people really, you know, they go after each other. They don't respect the views of the others and they're supremacists. They fight like hell about everything. They lock up in these contentious discussions. They're bigoted and they're not helping anybody. And Republicans and Democrats is one divide but there are many, many divides. Putin would be happy to see how many divides there are because divides in the country, in any country and he's trying to do it with other countries as he is trying to do it with us, I'm sure. Divides make a country dysfunctional or non-functional and that's exactly what's happening in this country. And I don't think people realize how dangerous and destructive it is to have these arguments about everything and never give up not even to obey the rules of the courts and to have Congress ignore its separation of powers and its power to oversee the president. So what we have here is a general decline and it was emerging during Obama. He kind of gave up at the end. You have to watch the frontline series and Trump who takes advantage of it and makes it worse every day by making people hate each other. It's an administration of hatred. We can't continue that way. The country has to come together. The fabric of this country is based on the social compact where we all agree on fundamental principles that are in the Declaration of Independence and that are in the Constitution. You wanna tear that up? Oh, we'll all pay a terrible price. And I think unless we do something, we all of us every single one, unless we do something we're gonna have to pay that price and it will be awful for every one of us. We have lived in this, you know, all of our lives that lived in a country that was largely dedicated to the Constitution, the rule of law and a certain morality, a certain fair and equal kind of, as expressed in the Declaration of Independence and in the Constitution and in the amendments to Constitution. And now we seem to be ignoring turning our back on that. You know, where you go from here, this is a great concern. It goes beyond Trump, it goes beyond this trial and it is revealed now. And all I'm saying is this is a moment in history beyond what people are saying it is. It's not just throwing a president out. It's not just changing the guard in the legislature or in the courts, it's saving the Republic. Well, I think the first two hours of today's trial Adam Schiff laid out your points very, very well that this was beyond today's trial and this is beyond President Trump. This is the, this could foreshadow things of things to come with other presidents. And I think he did an excellent job laying out those points. Well, I could see a whole bunch of more information that are a whole new topic that we could discuss next week or in the week after that, just on that point alone that you brought up, Jay. I'm concerned too. But until then we'll have to discuss it next week. We're out of time. So I'm Tim Appichella. I'm here with Jay Fidel. This was Trump week. Come and join us next week, Wednesday at 11 o'clock. Aloha.