 Well, let's see the breakfast in plus TV Africa. Thanks for joining us. We look quickly, take a look at our second conversation where we're looking at the alleged wrongful relocation of oil fields. And we have an expert that joins the conversation, but however, a bit of a background to this. Trouble over the oil fields started on April the 6th, 2020, when the regulatory agency, Department of Petroleum Resources, revoked the operating license of biosell oil company over the alleged lack of assets turned around for the nation. Now, Senators, Director of the Nigerian Opstream Petroleum Regulatory Commission to show proof of the presidential directive for revocation and relocation of the Attala Marginal Oil Field OML-46 owned by the Biosell State Government, which was transferred to the Hulking Exploration and Production Company Limited. Well, the directive followed by the Senate was given, but however, you have a trio of the Biosell, had the oil Nigerian Limited and the Century Exploration and Production Limited kicking against the renovation and revocation or relocation on the ground that the original operators of the oil field exploration and production have been made and loyalties were paid into the accounts of the federal government as at the time, the fuel was purportedly revoked and joint venture partners had an outstanding 20,700 hours of crude on ground. We have a guest joining the conversation is almost over at the time, we'll have the Biosell State Government taking, you know, speaking out and being very vocal about this saying, hey, this belongs to the Biosell State Government, but you also have the Senate of recent time showing her consent and this made statement, but what does this mean at the end of the day for Biosell State? We have Ola Bodeh Shawome, who is an oil and gas expert joining us this morning on the conversation. Thank you for joining us, Ola Bodeh, Shawome. Yeah, good morning, Madam. It's a pleasure to be with you. All right then. Thank you once again. Quickly, what do you make of all of this? I mean, this is a conversation that's been going on for a long time. We're in 2022, but something that started way back from 2020. I think that's how it was way before 2020. So we can just go to the origins of when the licenses were... Revolt. I mean, were given by the federal government. There were incidents, there were activities that led to the revocation in the first place. So when the joint venture was given, there were three partners, Century, Biasas, the government, but there was a lot of fight and disagreements among them. To the extent that nothing was being done, the DPR then wrote them a warning letter saying that if they did not develop the fields, that their licenses would be revoked. But still, they were not able to harmonize. The three parties were not able to harmonize and get work going. In fact, in point of fact, there is a record where Century wrote a letter to the DPR then, asking them for the licenses to be revoked. So it was really no surprise for us to see when the licenses were revoked. So the first of all, they had no activity on the field, primarily because they were having issues. So while we understand that they paid royalties and all that, but it's also important that we allow the law to work, it's just unfortunate for the new people, Harkin, who have been allocated the field that they are inheriting a seabed of problems, primarily because one of the people that was given the licenses is a state government. So the issue here is about law and order and the fact that the commission, which has the powers to do this thing, must be allowed to do this work. I mean, that's the essence of the petroleum industry at any rate. At any rate, they made a representation to the commission and the commission set up a committee headed by one of his commissioners to investigate the whole issue. And they took a few months, they took evidences from everybody, they listened to them and they also came up with the fact that the old DPR, as it was, was in the right to revoke those licenses. And subsequently, I think it went somewhere else. Now, what they have done is go to an arbiter because what the responsibility the Senate has in this case is to just check whether the DPR acted in good faith and with respect to external existing laws, which I believe the Senate will do. But in the process, they have brought in a lot of things into the media. Sometimes you take your fight to the media to ensure that you get even better hearing. So it is the responsibility of everyone to hear from all parties, for which I'm not a party to anyone anyway at this moment. But you may want to speak to the NUPRC, who have already listened to all the parties, I judge in the case, and issue the letter to all parties on the results of the arbitration that they did. You may also want to speak to the new people who were located the licenses, and then you may have a different view on the whole thing. But the truth be told is that we as Nigerians need to learn to be comfortable with law and order. We cannot just expect that every time, because we have some power, we have some influence, we can break laws, we can alter circumstances and allow things to go away. It cannot, we cannot, I mean, that's how we got into commotion in the first place. The PIA is clear in terms of who has what authority. And it is also clear everywhere in the world, if you are given a license and you do not use it, and there are extant laws within those licenses that says it can be revoked, then you have the challenges of it being revoked, particularly because there was a warning letter from the DPR then that there was no development and it stood the risk of being revoked. But more importantly, because one of the parties had written to the DPR asking that the licenses be revoked because of irreconcilable differences. So I mean, those are facts of the matter that can be verified. Irreconcilable differences or, you know, turn around at the end of the day to the nation? Well, I'm not century, so I cannot speak to their intent. Yeah, but I can speak to the fact that they wrote a letter. I mean, and that's public and that can be verified and that evidence of that can be gotten. So it's not my own place to say what the issues are. You know, the subjective things are not my place. What we do is just to analyze the facts of the matter. So the facts of the matter is what I've spoken to. The license were given to Biosurge government century and the three parties were not able to effectively develop the field. The second fact of the matter was that there was a warning from the DPR that their licenses could be revoked. But still, they were not able to harmonize and get work going. And at the point in time, one of the parties who wrote to DPR asking that the licenses be revoked and along the line, probably after the expiration of the term, that I don't know for certain, but I guess it would be that way, the licenses were revoked. Those are the facts that I know of the matter. I would like you to talk about the role of President Mahoud Buhari in all of this. Also the role of the Senate Committee on Ethics, Privileges and Public Petitions. Because they've asked the new agency that emerged from the ashes of the DPR, the assembly upstream regulatory commission, to produce the written directive from the president on the allocation of the oilfield to Hauke'in EMP. So what do you say to this? The role of the president, the role of the Senate Committee in all of this? If you recall, one of the things that was in the public game, if you want to go, was the issue about the sale of oilfields on such a separate. And the fact that there was a reservation by a PRC. And then there was an announcement from the presidency and PRC took a stand. And what we basically say, I mean, what the trust of the message from the police is that it would be a lot of work. So NUPRC is the regulator for industry. Just like you have CPM, regulator for the banks. Just like you have DCT, regulator for the broadcast industry. If it has a reservation for a radio station, is it the presidency that we have? You know what we are allowed to do is if we want oil and gas in the industry, we need the oil and gas industry to be a proper system. It cannot be a place where it is the powerful that just way. There is a way to work on democracy's work with systems. The work with proper system. The issue is that, is it within the powers of the NUPRC? What they have done? Is it within the parts of NUPRC? And NUPRC has done it out of its powers. The case should be taken to cover the presidency. That is how democracy works. I mean, so if they feel justified, they should go to the presidency. They should even go to the Senate. So, and this is an important story when the banks said president. And I believe that only the mighty will get the money that survives. So, the law is clear. The rule and the powers of the commission as a regulator is also clear. Okay, a lot of you have talked about the law. Sorry to interrupt you, sir. You've talked about the law, but can we spare a thought? What do you think we should spare a thought for these bodies, these companies? BOCL on one side, or BOCL, Hardy Oil and Nigeria Limited and then Century Exploration and Production. Because they're saying that this revocation is unfair to them. On the grounds that, you know, as the original operators of the field, they had made exploration and production royalties. They had paid royalties. They had gone ahead to make exploration. They've also invested in production. So, if you invest in exploration, it's not small money. You invest in production, it's not small money. You're paying royalties to communities through the federal government, into the account of the federation. It's not a small money. At the time that the license had been revoked, you know, and that they have an outstanding 20,700 barrels of crude oil on the site. So these things have already been ongoing. Okay, I think you spoke about the law and then on the other side, we have to look at the moral issues. On the moral issues, it will be unfair. On the basis of the law, the law is the law. So, and I'll give you this example. In 2010, my mom went to the U.S. And as you can expect with our citizens, she had some, but more, I think she had a few vegetables and that. And the customer of the center in New York at JFK said, he's actually managing Nigerian, so it was American. And that he understands everything and let him, particularly because of his testimony, he would have allowed her to do what he said, but the law is the law. And on the basis of that, all that she spent a lot of time packing had to be seized because they had to offer the procedure for entry into the United States. There's something that for law and order is an economic fundamental. Because if you take the list of economic fundamentals, law and order is one of them. When you get a license and you have paid for your license, that does not mean you own it 100%. And I'll give you an example of a broadcast license. There are actions you can take when you have a broadcast license that can make your license to be revoked. The same thing with the backing license, irrespective of whatever commitment and investment you must have made. Now, under the same law that granted the oil license, there are conditions where that license can be revoked. And one of it is non-investment and non-actions on the field. But more importantly, the fact that they were actually warned about an impending revocation. So these are facts. Okay, so quickly. When we talk law, yes. Let's bring this down because I want to understand if you would describe the action of the executive arm of government where the president on the strength of protest, President Mohammad Buhari, at the time in October, directed the immediate reinstatement of the revoked license on a discretionary basis. I mean, we have seen that the Biasa state government had said, we're going to be committed to ensuring that, hey, if it's a turnaround and whatever you have, we're going to improve this if that's the issue. Would you say that the declaration or the act or the involvement of the executive arm of government led by the president is a meddle sum interloper? First of all, so we're going to the details of law and all that now. So I think the lawyer reacts on that. And I'm being fair, I'm trying to everyone. So I don't want to speak beyond what is my own expertise. What the federal government does will be right if it is consistent with the law that is in existence. And that is the PIA. But I'm only speaking, I'm a technical expert and I'm aware of some of the issues in this case. That is the base for which I'm speaking. If the president acts in a manner that is consistent with the law, it can be taken and that is reversed. So the issue here is a point of principle. It has nothing to do with any of the state. And the point is this, that we have to follow what the law says. Where there is inconsistencies or debate about the law. In a democracy, the person that corrects it is the court. It is not the president. So if there are sincere and genuine grounds by any of the parties, the real place to go is the court. It's not to go to a higher authority because you cannot appropriate and repropriate. So the government, if the DPR... So the Biosag government can have a case, is if they are alleging that the circumstances and the procedures for the revocation of the license was wrong or illegal, then they can have a case. But they cannot have a case by saying that simply because they have invested so much money that the license cannot be revoked. That is not tenable within law. All right, so they need to approach it. Yes, please. Yes, yes, your final sentence, please. Okay, so that's not tenable within law. So to my mind, since the NUPRC, which is the regulator, has looked into the case and found in favor of the old DPR. So what they can do now is take the NUPRC and those who currently have the license to court and state their case before the court, when the court determines. It's one thing. We have to go now. Let me just point them out. Olapode, we have to go. I'm sure we can have this conversation some of the time. Before me, it leaves a question of what it could be now that the Senate is saying, hey, we're frowning and they're asking that there be a proof, you know, where that license was asked to be directed. What becomes, you know, of the situation, a conversation for another time? Thank you so much. Olapode, show me. Oil and gas expert. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure. Well, that's it this morning on the show. I mean, it's quite interesting. I really don't know. It feels like we get back to the times where we dig some of these issues, you know, from way back. But we've been speaking with an expert and he shared his thoughts on all of that. But let's see how all of these things pan out. And that's the size of a conversation this morning on the breakfast. If you missed out on any part of it, it will be okay to follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram in the subscribe to our YouTube channel, who is at Plus TV Africa, and Plus TV Africa Lifestyle. My name is Messi Boko. Have a great morning. And my name is Kofi Bartels. We will attend tomorrow. Good morning.