 Okay, board members, we're ready when you are and the board member Gordon Brock is in if you can turn on your camera. Thank you. Okay, looks like we're all live. Welcome everybody I'd like to call the order the city of Santa Rosa design review board or regular meeting, which was agendized for today. Every fourth 2021. Let's memorialize why we're here in this setting before moving on to the agendized items. Due to the provisions of the governor's executive orders in dash 25 dash 20 and in dash 29 dash 20, which suspends certain requirements of the Brown Act, and the order of the health officer of the county of Sonoma to shelter in place to minimize the spread of coven 19. The design review board shall be participating via zoom webinar. Of course, members of the public are able to join us via zoom and live stream in addition to being on the phone. With that, I will ask Patty to give us a roll call please. But the record reflect that all board members are present. Excellent. Thank you, Patty. Item number two on the agenda is approval of the minutes item number 2.1 is the draft minutes from our January 21 2021 meeting. Are there any amendments that are necessary. Seeing nobody speak up, we will put those into record. Thank you very much. Please public comment. Before I do public comment, I'm going to jump to item number four and read board business statement of purpose. Zoning code chapter 20 dash 52.030 f project review. The authority shall consider the location design site plan configuration and the overall effect of the proposed project upon surrounding properties and the city in general. Review shall be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan, any applicable specific plan applicable zoning code standards and requirements consistency of the project within the city's design guidelines, and the actual criteria for special areas and other applicable city requirements, ie city policy statements, developmental ends. So that's our purview and as we go back to item number three public comment. This is the general public comment period for items which are germane to this board. And each and all agendized items will have their own public comment period. I will go ahead and open up general public comment. Each speaker will be allowed three minutes. Okay, chair concave so far we don't see any raised hands. So if anybody would like to do a public comment if you can raise your hand electronically then we can unmute you. And we don't have any raised hands. Okay, we'll go ahead and close the general public comment period. And moving on to board member reports, I am going to rearrange the agenda and send that to the bottom. So we'll pass by that for now. Department reports interim deputy director rose any department reports. No, no department reports. I may piggyback on some things with the with the board member reports later in the meeting but nothing for now. Thank you very much. Item number seven are statements of abstentions do we have any statements of abstentions by board members this evening. Okay, great. We'll continue on with all the items. Moving on to item number eight scheduled items. Point one is a public hearing for design review of the cuba building at 1255 Apollo way file number DR 18-081. Before handing it over for a presentation we will take expert a communication disclosures from the board. Board members needing to make any expert a communication disclosures. Okay, seeing no one come forward we will move on to the presentation and welcome project planner senior planner Susie Murray. Good evening Susie. Good evening. Thank you. Let me get my my screen up here for you. Can you see it. Is easy to try again I just changed the settings for you. Okay. Can you see it now. Not yet. Okay. All right, it looks like I'm. Yeah, there you go. I'm there I'm getting it into there we go. Okay, so you can see the screen now. Yes. Okay. Good evening chair can Kate and vice chair hedge path and members of the design review board. The project before you this evening is the cube building at 1255 Apollo way. The proposal is to construct a 1212,000 square foot commercial building, and they have also requested a 25% parking reduction. The zoning code does allow the design review board to approve a parking reduction up to 25% as part of the design review and I'll talk a little bit more about that as I get into the presentation. Okay. So the project here is outlined in blue and off to the kind of the northwest there is the Kaiser site down on mercury mercury way MOB six just to kind of orient yourself. So these kind of the west and the north of this site are vacant. There's an approved project to the north, a church and then all of those buildings surrounded surrounding it are all commercial. So here's some of some examples of the architecture in the neighborhood, the top two are on the opposite side of Apollo way. And then the bottom one is actually the backside the side that faces the project site of the Kaiser MOB six melding. And those are solar panels out there. So here shows that there are 24 on site parking spaces. The zoning code requires 32, and that's where the parking reduction comes in the 25% reduction, but the site plan also shows that there is adequate space along the street frontage for eight more parking spaces. So the site plan I'd also like to highlight some here is that it provides landscaping all along the front and the north eastern property lines, but not along the western property line because that entire property line is a storm drain easement 15 So the general plan land use designation is business park and the zoning district is also business park they're obviously consistent. As you can see the spot where the project is proposed on Apollo way is shown with the yellow and red star. It's surrounded on all sides by other properties within the business park off to the east there there is some low density residential development, and then off to the west, where you see the yellow and green hatching. It's designated for residential development but it is currently undeveloped. So the project was reviewed in compliance with the design guidelines specifically the section that that really talks about business parks. The building has a unique design to the site and then it steps, you know, it steps with the curvature of the street, but it's also a unique design to Santa Rosa staff found that the materials and the colors that they were using and fit in with the neighborhood although we will defer to you. And there are entry ways at all five units that have canopies over them to protect people from the elements and the doors and windows have been placed in a very organized pattern on the face of the building and the rear of the building. So here are the front and rear elevations and really what I want to point out here is the, they're putting metal siding panels, as well as a metal roof and then the colors that they've proposed are off to the to the right here project was found in compliance with the California Environmental Quality Act qualifies for a streamlining exemption because it is consistent with the general plan for which the Council certified an environmental impact report back in 2009 project was also a statutorily exempt I'm sorry categorically exempt as infill development because it's on a site that's less than five acres within the city. It's consistent with the general plan and zoning. All services are available there. It wouldn't result in a significant impact to air or water quality noise or traffic. And the site has no suitable habitat for listed species and an updating an updated report from January this year. So here's the landscape plan looks very much like the site plan, but it calls out what you know where the new tree or new trees are and the what trees will be removed and provides their landscape escape palette. So during staff review. We ran into a couple of issues and one was that storm drain easement along the western property line, which we had to reduce the size of the easement in order to bring the easement dedication and compliance with our city code. The other issue was the biological, which I just mentioned, they didn't updated report in January because the biological information provided as part of the project application submittal was quite old. So we needed to get an update on that. But all issues have been resolved. Happy to report. This has been in house since November of 2018. We did a notice of application that they required a variance for that storm drain easement which was approved about a year after the application was submitted. And then we hit code in and the project slowed down a little bit. I'd like to say thank you to the applicant for their patients. I'm going to end this here now before you today and I'll public noticing public hearing noticing was completed last month. So today I have not received any calm comments written or verbal. It is recommended by the planning and economic development department that the design review board by resolution grant design review for the cube building located at 1255. Apollo way assessors parcel number 035490029. And for those people who cannot see the screen might be calling in. My name is Susie Murray. You can reach me at 707-543-4348 or email at smurry at srcity.org. That concludes my presentation. I don't know if I by my applicant does not have a presentation. And I'm not sure if they want to say a few words. This is the recording secretary and the applicant has been the ability to unmute himself if he wishes to speak. Okay, thank you. Am I can you hear me now. Yes, we can. Okay, I'd like just the thing chairman Kate can Kate in the board. We appreciate your public service to the community it's a I know you're highly paid. You do the work work out of your heart so I appreciate that appreciate Susie and all for efforts to get this project to this far and we've got our design architect and landscape architect any questions but I think what Susie said and done as covers all the bases. Thank you so much. And thank you. We appreciate it. And thank you to senior planner Murray for a great presentation. Let's go ahead with questions. For, let's just start with staff for now. Questions for staff. Board member Wicks. Okay board member Sharon questions. Evening. No questions at this time for staff. Thank you. I remember a cordon brought questions for staff. None at this time. Thanks. Board member wiggle questions for staff. No questions. And vice chair Hedgepeth questions for staff. No question to staff. I know that there's an overlaying district out here corporate district. Are there provisions in signage where it is just monument. Or are some of these buildings able to monitor with graphics or signage on the building's proper. Are we at ankle height signage or are there any provisions in the corporate center to allow graphics or signage on buildings vertically. I wish I had the answer for you. There was no sign signage proposed as part of this project, which there usually isn't. So I haven't looked at that I know that they do have some. I don't know if it's CC and ours or or design standards in the corporate center. But I do know the plant palette is kind of driven by by that. I don't know what the sign requirements are though. Thank you. Thank you. I have a couple questions for staff. One along the lines of the landscaping. I did recall that corporate center has their own CC and ours or design guidelines. I'm just wondering about orchard style parking. It looks like. Again, we've been asked for a 25% parking reduction. And so putting more trees in may, in fact, eliminate more parking. I'm just wondering how staff analyzed orchard style parking with this project. So the parking or the trees that are proposed are, you know, they've got almost a one to five ratio, which is what the zoning code requires. They're put in planner strips around the parking areas and not are in planning areas around the parking area and not in planner fingers, which actually gives the trees a little bit more room to to root. So it means technically the requirement just not in position of orchard style parking. It's not every five spaces in a planning finger, but it meets that and we have, in fact, the Kaiser project just to the north, northwest there. They, they did the same thing with larger planner strips and larger trees. In order to let those those trees grow a little bit bigger. So in a reduced number of trees. So, again, it meets the intent of the orchard style parking with providing shade and whatnot. Thank you. And then it looks like I know there's a utility easement for the storm drain. It looks like the storm drain on the site plan actually wraps the entire property. Is that accurate? You know, we have Carol do this from our engineering department on online and Carol, I'm going to ask you to respond to that, please. It might take a sec to elevate her. Just give me one moment here. You got it. If you can please raise your hands to you throughout this if you know you're going to be called on so we can find you quicker. Thank you. And you repeat the question please my name is Carol do this. Good evening Carol. So it looks based on the site plan that that storm drain of the 24 inch storm drain that was discussed in the utilities that actually wraps the entire property. I was just wondering if that's accurate. And if it, it's all under easement or if it's just the western edge, I believe, is what we were was mentioned. No, it is a city public storm drain. It was installed in the 1980s. It's one of the few places in the city where the storm drain runs through a commercial development subdivision. It does run on two sides of this property. I believe it's a 48 inch pipe. It appears that perhaps the road was supposed to go through there at some point, and then the road was rerouted. There are existing easements there. And the pipe has been protected from the impact of the development by the architectural design of the footing of the building. Thank you for that clarification. I do see now that it's a 48 inch storm drain along that side and then the notes are that there's existing 24 inches. So those must just teed off of there for it. It's a public probably installation versus or private installation versus public. Yes, the 24 inches actually to the north on the adjacent property. Okay. Okay, thank you. Trying to get the constraints of the property in order here. Appreciate your time. Thank you. Board Member Wicks, you have a question to come up. Yeah, I'll start with Susie. But this may be also a carol question. I noticed on the site plan the, and I drove by the site and sat at the site for a good 10 minutes to kind of look at the traffic flow and intensity on Apollo way, although it was only there 10 minutes and run lunchtime, but I got a kind of a sense of that. My question is why are the 80 foot red curb. No parking zone. And I can guess why, but I'm just wondering why it's so, so large on this particular property and adjacent properties don't have that. Carol, I, I don't know the answer to that. I was, I can make some assumptions to you. That's, I think that's more of a question for our traffic. In fact, there's, there's a, there's a typical three foot red zone on the curb cuts all along Apollo. In fact, most of the ones on Apollo don't have any curb cuts. Also looked on circadian as well on when you have this outside radius condition and those as well the worst case condition I found was a red 16 foot long red curb cut zone. So, and the whole point of my, my questioning this is, is in consideration of a parking reduction onsite being balanced out with onsite parking and there's looks like there's an opportunity to have three or four more spaces along Apollo way that we're being restricted by some sort of the ordinance restrictions that I'm not aware of. For an outside radius property like this. I think I just started at the same question and I think just they have a there's a site visibility graphic that they generated. I have a call trans, I guess methodology for the speed of the roadway. And so that's where you're getting the 150. But I was curious if in looking and looking at the city zoning code, there's usually a 30, 35, 35 foot. There's a much smaller psych vision triangle at these, at these intersections of a similar, similar question why that was applied the less restrictive city zoning figure. You are correct, Member Corden-Brock. The site distance is based on a Caltrans standard. This is Carol Dugas speaking again. And it's a typical site distance calculation that is provided for traffic entering on a curve. When you're on the outside of the curve, you can see traffic in both directions quite clearly as opposed to when you're on the inside of the curve, such as this property. And it's based on the speed of the traffic and it's measured from the driveway entrance to based on the speed of the traffic, it has a certain linear footage so that you can see the cars. So it was calculated, I believe, in the traffic study and we just followed for safety reasons, traffic entering and exiting on the inside of the curve of the street. It's a pretty typical requirement in those areas and it's based on that standard. Any other questions for staff? Okay, hearing none, seeing none. We will go ahead and open the public hearing and take public comment on this item 8.1. Again, if you're a member of the public wishing to speak, if you can raise your hand, the recording secretaries can give you the ability to unmute. You'll have three minutes. Chair Kincaid, sorry about that, I was muted. We don't see any raised hands, we can give it another minute or so. Sounds like a plan. Still no raised hands. It appears we don't have any public comment for this item. Okay, we will go ahead and close the public comment for this item and we will move on to move back to the board as our normal operation, we'd be looking for a motion to then start discussion. And I would imagine with no applicant presentation that during that discussion period we can also ask the applicant questions. I'd like to make a motion for an approval of the preliminary design review and defer to staff with the caveat of some input on the architecture. And you're good with parking or reduction which is part of the resolution. Yes. And waive the reading of the text. Exactly, yes, thank you. Thank you for the motion. Chair Kincaid, can I interject something? As of January 1st, we no longer have preliminary and final design review. So the options here for the board are to approve the project, approve the project with conditions, continue the project or deny it. I mean, those are generally the four options, so you'll be in this case probably doing design review and giving some conditions of approval that would affect the design. Yes. Thank you for that friendly reminder. And Vice Chair Hedgpeth, for clarification, you have a motion to approve with conditions. Yes, it's option two taken. Thank you. I'll second that. Excellent. And now we will have discussion. So again, if you have any comments on the parking reduction, please make those. If you've got any questions for the applicant, happily ask them. So we will start with Board Member Wicks. Comments, questions? I would be supportive of the, I am supportive of the parking reduction. I don't see the need to have 80 feet one direction and 100 feet the other direction in a red zone. And if that's the case, then we're missing a lot of red zones on Apollo and circadian, circadian way. I would not sure how to make it a condition, but I would want to, I would want this somehow that be reduced to something more reasonable, like 30 feet each direction. Like on circadian, there's one example where there's a red zone that it's very close to the intersection. It's Stony, what's the main street? Sorry. Challenger. Corporate Senator Parkway. It's red because it's almost on top of the stop sign at that intersection. And I can see a need to have a car not parked right next to it, but with a 25 mile an hour speed limit. And when I did my site review today, it, I understand we're in COVID situation and a lot of the offices weren't fully occupied, but it's pretty slow go on the traffic. The bus that I saw, the transit bus that I saw go by me and even the FedEx guy that's usually in a faster pace mode anyway was driving at 20, 25 miles an hour. It just doesn't feel appropriate to have that length of red curb zone. As far as the architecture, I'm okay with the design. I don't really have much input on it. Love to hear my fellow board members speak to it a little bit more. I'm not a huge fan of the dark slate color for the roofing material at the entryway, but again, it's just not my cup of tea, but I don't wanna get hung up on a color that my fellow board members might like as well. Other than that, I think it's a good project. It's, well, it makes good utilization of a somewhat difficult site and dealing with curves and easements, et cetera. So I think it's fine. It'll be a nice addition to the community. And on a little side note, I was very pleasantly surprised to see the VA hospital really far along with construction. It seems like yesterday we approved that and it's was awesome to see it. It even had the canopies for the entry all built. So I think that project will be a nice addition and I think this one will be a nice addition as well. Thank you, board member Wicks. How about board members sharing questions, comments, please. Sure. Thank you, Chair Kankade. And thank you, Landon Murray for a great presentation and thank you, applicant, for, as Henry mentioned, great use of the site, a funny little angled parcel there. And so good use of the site. I think this is, will be a great addition. And these look like really, I like the, that you're thinking of it as an incubator for small businesses and they've got, you know, small offices along with the shop space. So really great. I'd be attracted to something like this as a small business owner. So this is great. Couple of questions and comments. I'm fine with the slate color that Henry mentioned. I kind of like the darkness of it. Doesn't, I don't think that it'll be too overly heavy. Again, another unfortunate thing about being over Zoom, I feel like if we were in person, potentially you'd have materials for us to actually look at. And this is, one of those projects would be nice to see the colors of the materials, the colors of the metal because you're going with some darker colors, but I'm okay with what we're seeing now on the plans. Question about the, I have two questions on the architecture. The one is the placement of the rollup metal door on unit one. I understand that it fits with the rest of the units to have them all on the backside, the north side of the building there, where each one gets the rollup metal door. There's is right on the driveway in the traffic way. And I'm just, I'm curious potentially hear about your thinking applicants about putting it there rather than turning it around the corner to have it next to that parking spot. Feel like it might be difficult to keep the access clear depending on loading, unloading for their workshop area. I know you're trying to arrange with the parking everything but I just have a comment on that, the placement of that rollup roll door in particular. Yes, I hope you can hear me now. Yes, that's a definite concern that we had. I think one of the good things about the planning requirements is that we have to have for this kind of space is required to have a loading zone though. So we've accommodated for everybody and it's actually per Santa Rosa building code to have a loading zone. So they would have to pick it there and then move it in. So it's not, so with a truck in kind of the way the communal space is put together they'd have to, for that suite you have to load in the loading zone and then pick it from there. So it isn't a truck parked in that space. Oh, so they all are using that temporary loading zone over on the Northwest corner there? Yes. Oh, okay. Just a little bit of a haul. Okay. And any thoughts about kind of moving it around the corner onto the West side of that unit? Yeah, that's, I think we allocated some parking for that work. So that would be, they don't use them a lot. So it's kind of easy to roll up door. Again, this is kind of a communal space. So you're going to have to coordinate with each other a little bit for parking. And when you're doing stuff in the back it's more of just kind of entering in with vehicles and entering out. It's not like it's a loading dock space. So I think we just decided it was better to have the parking rather than, that one suite would be a little bit less likely to be in and out service in that space because of the road. Yeah. Yeah. And then I hear what you're saying. It's a tricky one and it matches with the others to have it on the North side. And aesthetically that it bounces out and having, I was just thinking of, it's like say there's a furniture shop like a cabinet maker or a furniture maker there or a metal fabricator who's got large pieces of wood or metal and having that straight ahead access is worthwhile but thinking about getting in that corner. I don't know. I'm curious to hear if the architects on the board and the rest of the board have thoughts on that as well. But it's definitely not a deal breaker for me. I was just curious that it is the only one that's not, it doesn't have a sidewalk in front of it. It's yeah, just sort of right on the driveway there. Yeah. And it kind of, before they were all staggered too so it kind of gave it each space but we had because of the easement issue we had to move the first unit, suite number one to kind of push them all back to make them maximize the space of the square footage. So it was a little bit like the front. It looked more like the front originally now it's kind of morphed into this design in the back. So that was the other idea originally and I think it's still there but it is kind of a, they're gonna have to coordinate and be communal and we do have the allocated the loading space that they'll have to line up in the lease. Yeah, and on the front of the building on the south elevation, I do like the stagger the south and the west or the east elevation. I think it's a nice effect. So I like it there. Next question is related to that sort of end of the building as well. For the trash and the recycling enclosure it's on that little peninsula there sticking out next to the side there but I was wondering more about the materials of it and if correct me if I'm wrong I'm not seeing it on the east elevation. Right, I don't see it depicted anywhere or called out of what that enclosure will look like. Am I correct on that? Yeah, we just, what do we say on the floor fence? What do we say fence, what do we say? What does it say on the fence? I think we were looking for a standard fence probably in the black color. You'd get that chain link galvanite or it's a chain link fence when we probably do it in black to kind of match it. It does show it, it shows it in silver actually on the bird's eye view elevation but I don't know if they got that one. The middle bird's eye view we did actually put it there or put it on that. Okay, yeah I wanted to, and just wondering and you had it called out at one point where there's three, there's a 32 gallon cans in there. That's the trash for the whole unit, the whole structure? Yes. Okay, my next question is regarding the trees and yeah, I like what you're doing with that day in the front side of the building. One question about, let's see and I'm trying to pull up the plan here. You have one of your notes. It says, where is it? Note nine, is it note nine? It's a new location of relocated existing tree. Can you just describe that a little bit? Let's see where that, I don't see it called out of where that's coming from or what kind of tree? That's note six on the landscape drawings, the L1.01. I don't think it's this one. Point three, I don't know. There are existing trees there. That's what we'd have to say. First of all, we're trying to utilize those without having to remove them, but... Yeah, I like that definitely down for that, retaining the matured plum trees that you've got. I was just curious about the relocated existing tree in addition to being a designer and a certified arborist as well. And so this question that is it worth the effort to excavate a tree and transplant it rather than, and it was just one of including a different tree. Yeah, we should move the tree there. Like you said, it should be of the same type. Okay, so what you have in the plan might be a relic of previous iteration. Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah, I might include that in the conditions to other than retaining the trees that you're going to keep in situ to have just new trees rather than relocating the tree. I think they'll probably be cheaper anyway, so. Yeah. And the survivorship will be better. Yeah, but that's it for me. Thanks very much. Thanks very much. I think it's going to be a really interesting little, little pocket of the industrial park over there. So thanks for the project. I'm glad to see you moving forward. Thank you. Board member sharing board member cordon Brock questions and comments for the project. Sure. Yeah. Thank you. I think can you hear me okay? So okay. So, yeah, so I think of my only, I have a couple of comments. One is the, is the trash collection. There's not necessarily a, you know, like a dumpster enclosure where someone's servicing. And I'm just wondering if the, like board member Sharon had brought up, if the amount of storage is adequate for, especially for some of the high intensity possibility of high intense, you know, uses. And so I was wondering if that's been vetted. And how you plan on handling that with either, you know, ecology or, or, or how. We picked that location, you know, or that is on the corner there. You know, because they can get right to it without actually getting very far into this phase. So maybe it was because of the elephant. It didn't show it, but it is. We sized it to a particular size to for 33. But that's more than one. I mean, it'll be more than that. It's bigger than the one 33. Yeah. And we, and we positioned it for the benefit of the. Waste. We pickups. We can probably. You can increase it along the wall this way. Make, make it as big as possible. But I think we tried, we did try to keep it streamlined. But I, everybody has to service it. So. I'm just looking at that. Yeah. There's just, there's like, for instance, on site plan, a one-on-one. So, you know, there's just, there's just, you know, there's just, you know, there's just people that don't care. But there's just people that don't care. So, and you know, for instance on site plan a one-on-one, you know, that, that area looks like it's completely enclosed in the building footprint. And so. One thing one, one thing that I was, I was thinking about and assumed was that, that enclosure would actually match the building materiality. And I think I would prefer to see it that way. Versus a. Black chain link. study or just some details that need to be developed in terms of that trash and closure anyway. So, and then just right sizing it for the types of uses that could go in there is just another, I guess, thing to consider instead of having some spillover and cans outside of the backs of each units and things like that. So something to look at and probably a condition we may add to it in terms of being wanting to see or making sure that that element is either designed into the building or it is very clear what it is in terms of its materiality and such as it moves through entitlement. Let's see, another thing I was looking at. So the parking analysis plan A1.02. I really like the, on this one, the landscape frontage matches the frontage, I guess guidelines and requirements for the North Point Corporate Center. So, for instance, on your landscape sheet L1.01, there's a kind of an inset that you've provided that has the street frontage in terms of the trees kind of going across sidewalks, et cetera. And so I think for me it'd be, I really like the idea if you can pull some of the trees, street trees, actually to the space between the sidewalk and the parking itself, I think would help at least move in or mix in with the vernacular there, the future development as well. So I'd like to see some trees popped across the sidewalk there. And then I think, I don't know how we do it, but you know, Henry's comment again, I think there's some room to expand the parking on the street. I know that the Caltrans diagram was kind of a best practice based on the traffic report. It's kind of, it doesn't dictate that it has to be that, but rather it's kind of a guideline-ish thing. So I think that can be pushed to accept a few more spaces along that zone. I don't know who the granting authority is to that, but I know that it's not, per at least the urban street system, it's not necessarily dictated that that has to be the 150 feet in clear zone. So let's see. And then my last comment would just be maybe consider adding some additional trees to kind of, since there aren't fingers necessarily, is to add some additional trees to kind of close down the parking space in the back and maybe look at a different type of tree because some of the locations are in fire retention areas and that soil is not necessarily conducive to growing trees effectively. So considering something like a Ginkgo, or another tree that's much tougher for that kind of environment in the soil it's going into, and those are all my comments and questions. Thank you. I was taking notes. Board Member Weigel, questions, comments? Um, yeah, I, from a lighting standpoint, I saw the wallpacks that are at the back of the packet here, the LED wallpacks, but I guess I'm concerned about lighting in the parking area in terms of safety standpoint. I don't think these wallpacks are gonna get enough light out all the way to the fringes of the parking. Are there light poles or anything else? I can't seem to find them if they're there. It's a question for the applicant. I believe we use the wallpacks and did we do a coverage on that originally? Did we not? We think the wallpacks would cover it, I think based on our review of the product data for the lighting and it was suitable to cover those input candles out that far. Not to say that we couldn't do, I would say maybe like light ballers or like light pole, like the full poles or maybe just some light ballers out there and what we could do either if they don't suffice. Yeah, I just, I think something, I mean, you know, our design review application I think needs to be updated now, right? Because before it had like information for preliminary and information for final and now that we're seeing everything, I think we should just see everything. And typically you would provide a lighting layout with, you know, like an analysis of all the lumens and whatnot across the site. And so I think that's gonna be a requirement for me. Shall provide lighting plan for staff review at the end there and just to prove it. If the wallpacks do the job, great. But I'd like to, I'd like you guys to prove it as it is a requirement of the application. So, I mean, and that's design guideline 3.4.2.1.3 if you're curious. What was my question about lighting? I'm not a general fan of the architecture personally. I think it's, it still feels a little too much like just a prefab metal building to me. I do like the windows though, with the kind of the projection. I think that's a really interesting way to spruce up a manufactured metal building. But other than that, I think you really, we've got a design guideline about four-sided architecture. I'm not feeling all four sides, if that makes sense. I feel like the front's been addressed, the back's been addressed, and then the east and west are kind of not, and they're plain. And I get that they're a pre-manufactured building, if they are, or maybe they're site built, but I just feel like they could use some visual interest on those two sides. But my own opinion that was standing, I think it's kind of, it is what it is in that regard. So that's not gonna prevent me from voting yes. But I think what's interesting to me is that this is, it's kind of a funky little site. And I would have wondered if you guys said, look, that maybe going a little more vertical too, to try to get some more space for, I really like the concept of these little units as incubators or little, you know, shop spaces, personal businesses or whatever. I think more of them might have been kind of cool. So you can speak better or not, but I think we constantly have discussions about density on this board related to a wide number of things. And I don't think it's strictly limited to residential, which is what we tend to talk about. But anyway, that's just my thought on that. Otherwise, good project for what it's gonna be. And I hope you guys are able to rent everything and build it quick and bring some great little businesses to Santa Rosa in the cube. So thanks so much. Thank you, Board Member Weigel. See, Board Member Wicks, did you do questions and comments for the applicant? Okay, then Vice Chair Hitchbeth, you're up. Oh, real quick, go ahead. Board Member Wicks, you're on mute still, you're on mute. About now. You're good. Yeah, I'm gonna let Warren, maybe I don't wanna steal his time, but I just, the discussion about the trash enclosure and Drew didn't have any comment about it. So maybe it's big enough and I'm missing the fact that you could probably get two, three yard more traditional, one recycling, one regular trashed in there and have them roll out and be picked up and lost. But I'm just wondering what the rest of the board thought about moving it and parking's a premium here, but the only other solution I see is taking one of the parking spaces and converting it to a trash enclosure area and more traditional square size. I don't really think I like the idea of chain link against the building and I sort of like Gordon Brock's idea of making it have a materiality that matched the building, but at the angle, I think that kind of ruins it for me. I'd almost rather go back to the chain link because it's had an angle, but now I got to thinking maybe it goes in the back. So I'd like to hear some more discussion not to beat it up, but just some quick discussion on it. I think one of the constraints that we have with the 25% parking reduction is that we can't lose a spot onsite unless we're able to pick up another offsite spot, which then in turn leads us down the path of easing that site line requirement. So I think it's kind of a three-fold. So I think that maybe we could say consider to the applicant relocating the trash enclosure to a more suitable spot, as long as you can pick up the parking on the street side by reducing the site line requirements, just a thought. And I didn't say anything because I thought Brett hit the nail on the head in terms of the chain link and all that stuff. So I'm in general agreement, Henry, about kind of what you said and what Jerk and Kate summarized and what Brett mentioned. Right. Vice Chair Hitchbeth questions, comments. You turned yourself on mute, you were already off. Yes. There you go. My point is, okay, I understand that there's this thing on the board where we're kind of waiting for public safety data and comment. It was wonderful, Henry, you went out and saw the red paint. It almost sounded like you had a tape and where this stall 31 is, in a perfect day, we could add to 31, 32 and 33 and take out spaces 10 and nine and have a dumpster back there. But we're caught by the ankles because in the end of the day, it's going to be staff and site line and the stewards of the city insurance, the underwriting. So I appreciate Chairman Kincaid in coming. It's appending, it's a consideration and should the site line be a soft touch by the powers that be, then we could maybe relocate the whole thing. I liked the whole idea of moving the trees out. Mayor Cordenbrock was well said there, move all those trees out to the other side of the sidewalk, makes sense. My comments a bit to expand on what Drew had mentioned on the architecture, it is two-sided and the whole, the happy thing and I appreciate this, the word cube is wonderful. You have a five foot cube window. If you look at the elevation, if we all turn the elevations a minute, just the AutoCAD ones, there's an east elevation that is blank really except for the door. And I'm not so much frustrated with the west because you're going to have a building there someday. But I thought about these cubes, if everyone turns to the south elevation, you have a, as Henry liked it, the projecting windows above, they're projecting out, they're flat below. And I really would like to see at least half that scale, a two and a half by two and a half flip around and be on the building on the east side. So when you drive that court and you can see it from the 3D image, there's actually enough room and most of them to have just a five by five centered on the wall. But when you look at the front 3D perspective, it's just not humane enough for me. The reason I'm the one that brought up about signage since signage is not going to go in the building, it's less lonely for me to have a little, it's a mini me, it's a two and a half by two and a half and it may be up in the front above that triangle element, that the airplane wing that's black, I guess I'm okay with the black. If you had a two by two, six by two, six cube sticking out there and then you went around to the side, it would be just kind of a humane way to look at that. It would bring more light in as well. I'm particularly concerned with that bird's eye perspective blow center, the east side, there's no windows there. And maybe having at least five by five cubes on the blue cheeks there would be a way to humanize that. A lot of people are gonna see that elevation. So speaking to Drew's comment about lighting, I would hope that underneath these soffits, the, I'll call them again, the jet wing, the F18, whatever wing that's there in the triangle form, that there are lights that glow over those doors. Now, maybe there's a soffit there, maybe not, but some kind of a glow light would be great at night. So when you're driving by, you can see that. It would really be effective because people driving around trying to find whatever this is, whether it's a techie in one of those buildings or someone inventing something, the widget, the numbers on each building could be on those doors. So that you could have a two for there. You could humanize it and give someone an address to go to to park on the street. Lastly, again, Drew is kind of sourcing me. The buildings, it's a very thick, hefty panel being used. If all those panels were turned vertically, the kind of bulky trim that's shown, it would be handsome to see all that side turned vertically, simply because it emphasizes the vertical. And the more you could be stealth about the way the metal sleeves together, which the vertical allows, that would be a happy thing. And I know Henry is very skilled with talking about metal. That's his super wheelhouse, but I'm just saying that I think that would be humane. And it's not a shell for me, but these windows would really make people feel happy going to work there. So that's my comment. Thank you. Board member Wicks, you were named. Would you like to provide a comment on the verticality of the metal siding versus the horizontality? You're spot on, Warren, that I think when I first looked at it, I thought, why wasn't it run vertically? Cause it's such a heavy texture handle to it. And I was gonna ask the applicant about the corner detail and if that was just standard metal building outside corner, or if it was something custom. But I think that would go away for me if it became more vertical. And I also love Warren's idea about the windows. I wish I'd have thought of that. I think that would really help that east elevation and let in more natural light. I always like it when spaces have lighting coming from two different angles, just one plane. That second plane just adds a different light touch throughout the entire day. So it's not always so consistent. So I was only asked about the verticality of the material I would make it at least to consider. Great, thanks for the input. Let's get back to my comments and questions. I think I'm fine with the parking reduction. I'd be supportive of that. I'm also supportive of reduction of the site lane and the picking up of more parking on the street side as it can happen. I think that part of the confusion for me on the trash enclosure was that the plan sets are, I guess they're partially not coordinated or some of which were from older versions, which I understand, because you probably did the site line analysis at some other time and then revised your architectural plans and the civil plans maybe didn't catch up, but I think we need to figure out some consensus on the trash enclosure as small in the detail it is, it does, in certain versions, plan versions, it does impact the architectural element, whether it's internal to the building and it kind of creates its own wing that's different than the entire rest of the building design. I think my only consider is on the mechanical screening. It's a parapet roof, I just would say that the mechanical screening for the rooftop units will be the same as the architecture will happen on all four sides of the HVAC units. Otherwise, I'm supportive of the project, I like the comments that I've heard so far and so with that, I think. Chair Cankade, it looks like you froze up a little bit there. Chair Cankade, this is Bill Rose, if you can hear me, maybe you might wanna turn your video off for a second and see if we can at least get your audio. If not, I'm wondering if Vice Chair Hedgepath, if you might be able to continue with the proceedings here, you're muted, Warren. I should, okay. Yes, I'll just try to honor Scott here. He started out with parking, being accepting of a parking reduction and looking at street parking. I believe he was then sourcing to a consideration for the trash enclosure and the idea that the trash enclosure could be relocated as part of that shift, depending that staff and insurance management allows for the sight lines. There was further discussion about the trees. Commissioner Cordenbrock moving that tree line, the tree canopy out to the disc between curb and sidewalk, fronting the main street. There was a continued consideration and you take it away. We're talking about lighting now, did you, I don't know if you caught that, Scott, did I botch the whole deal and? No, I could hear you, I could see you, and I was so busy trying to get back. Okay, all I said was that we're gonna condition this, we wanna increase the parking on the street, maybe move the dumpsters inside, pending that life safety is accorded by the city. If the city's going to force life safety and want the red paint, we're kind of stuck where we are. You can take it from there with your notes, they're fresh, clear and wonderful, and I will cease. All right, thanks for covering for me. Let's see, I'm trying to scan my notes here to get the highlights. So, board members Sharon had comments, and I would say that shall not relocate an on-site tree and instead plant with a new tree. I think that I heard a few comments on the street trees in the planting strip between the curb and the sidewalk that that was preferred. So I would say shall utilize sheet A.102 from the presentation, which has trees in the planting area between the curb and sidewalk. Consider adding trees near the rear parking spaces and potentially using different species if those planting areas are in non-traditional locations like bio swells, shall we? One thing for to kind of technically get to what Brett was saying, to match the tree species selected to the specific site conditions. So, perfect. Shall provide a site lighting plan for staff approval. Consider enhancing the visual interest on the two sides of the building that do not have any current architectural interest. Board member Hedgepeth enhanced that comment by saying consider on the east elevation creating two and a half by two and a half upper windows and where they can consider adding five by five windows on the elevations. I would say that the first part of that is shall provide more visual interest on the east and west elevations and then Warren's comment would be to consider to follow it up. But what do you think, Warren? Yes, I also wanted to mention that not just the east elevation, but the front facade, it's a lonely above the door where they have the, there's a door entry and there's a side window, but consider the two, two and a half by two and a half center above the front door that would help compliment, give life to the project there. So it's the east elevation and I believe the south, it would be enhanced. I'm not seeing it in my elevation, but I got you. And then consider turning the panels vertically to reduce the bulky feel of the horizontal panels and closure sighting. I miss anything? Specifically corner closure, right Henry? Yeah, can I add to that? And if they wanna stick with the horizontal look, maybe look at the 7.2 panel. The rest of the board, are they familiar with the 7.2 panel, which is an in and out, it's a square version of standard corrugated. That was my first impression when I saw the horizontal and I was disappointed to see the panel that they picked. And I would rather see it be more of a square, simpler approach to the panel. Trying to get to the panel page here on my screen. Okay, so consider a 7.2 panel a 7.2 panel or similar that is more simple. And that's if they stuck with the horizontal panel. They can do it vertically too. It just be cleaner and in either version, I'm looking at a bunch on my image, images online. Okay, understood. Any other comments? All right, well, let me check in with planner Murray and see how she's doing with creating a list of conditions. I actually started off pretty strong this time, but he lost me at the end with the siding and the windows and the end caps. So shall not relocate on-site tree, rather plant with a new tree. Shall utilize sheet A1.02 for planting, between the building and the sidewalk? It's the curve in the sidewalk. So the plant strip at the street. Okay, between the curve and sidewalk. Consider different species for specific to site conditions. And I think we're talking about the bioswale on the Northern property line there. The bioswale is on a, I believe that's on the neighboring property line. So, or on the neighboring property, not on this property. So we will look at that. So shall provide lighting for staff to approve that's adequate for that parking lot? Kind of where I got lost. That's where we started the discussion of the two, two and a half by two and a half windows on the East and South elevation. I don't know where the five by five windows were intended to go. So if you could clarify that. Yes, I think one of the general consider is enhancing the architectural elements on the East and West elevations. Okay, and I'm gonna, I still think there should be a shell, not a consider. Okay. Here's all my money. Fair enough. But I think there's enough vagueness in it that they can put a window in, had a bump out, whatever works for the applicant, but those two sides do need to be addressed. Okay. Can I just clarify is that the East and South elevations? East and West. East and West. Okay. Correct. Okay. So shall enhance architectural elements on East and West elevations. Now, there was something about the South elevation a few moments ago. Yeah. Warren was talking about lights above the entries. I mean, not lights, sorry, windows above the entry. And I'm out of a bit of a loss on that one too. So please enhance. So are we enhancing those, that elevation, is that a consider, a shall, or? Warren, do you want to? Yeah. You just took yourself, you took yourself on mute. I, turns out not so much. I'd like to consider a shall. I think that it's the West elevation where the entries are in the canopies that above the entry door, there's a 5050 cube, that's fine. I would like to see a two and a half by two and a half cube over the entry. It's a lot of wall space up there and just centered over the door up maybe the same head height as the five by five. But my general discussion, Susie, was having these half size, two and a half by two and a half cubes where they can fit on the East return walls. And they should increase at least to a five by five cube on the far East cheek. That's the last, that's sweet five is a key way to do that. So sweet five gets at least two, five by five cubes at the second level. Sweet four, three, two, those sweets coming around the return, those at least get a two and a half. Sweet ones kind of narrow, maybe it won't fit in, but around the face, Susie, of those units, all units one, two, three, four and five would get a two, six by two, six cube above the door entry higher up that would compliment the five by five cube they have now. So it could be identified as the cube project more strongly in our community. Okay, so you went on to several different elevations there. I've got two and a half by two and a half window over the entries on the best elevation, the front elevation. So, so, that's, I don't have my plan up. So I can't see which south elevation. You've got sweet five at least five by five at second level you want it wrapping around, but you're using terms more than I am not familiar with. Okay, I'm sorry. I was saying that on the east side of sweet five, that's the east elevation. There are two blue cheeks there. I'd like on the second level, five by five square cubes in those two blue cheeks on sweet five as it faces, as it becomes the east elevation. Okay, and when you say five by five cubes, those are windows, right? Yes. I think there's a cleaner way to do this. I think there's two considerations here, Warren, if I'm hearing you right. One is shall provide five by five square windows on the south elevation at all units above the entry door. That's one, right? Okay. Is that, am I hearing you right, Warren? That could work. Two and a half by two and a half. Minimum two and a half by two and a half windows, right? And then the second one is consider, if I'm hearing you right, a second level window on each unit on the east side, smallest being two and a half by two and a half with the largest two and a half by two and a half on one, two and three, and then your five by five foot on unit four and five. Is that right? Yes, that's what mathematically fits. Yes, thank you. Well said. Is that okay, Susan? And what's the reasoning with making that a consider rather than the shell? That's a question for Warren or Drew. Drew, you wanted to roll it into a shell and I'm okay with that. No, I think the front elevation should be the shell, the south, and then I think to give the applicant flexibility with how they're going to address the east and the west sides. I don't think we should dictate the east side to them, but give them a strong recommendation on those windows. I think that's where I was coming from with the consider on that. So the shell is the south windows and the consider is the east windows, just to give them some flexibility with figuring out what works best. Gotcha. Yeah, my concern there would just be with not having the big faces as a, Warren calls them the cheeks, having those be addressed, want those to be addressed. Yeah, that's on unit five. I'm good with that, Drew. Suzie, you good with that? You know, I'm pretty good with it. Before we update the resolution, I will be re-listening to this and clarifying, making sure I've got every word right. Great. That'll be so. And then we'll move it away. Oh, sorry, go ahead. I just want to make sure before we convene this item, I think Suzie's going to offer a couple of clarifications on some other items, but on the specific conditions, we want to make doubly sure that the applicant is clear on these as well. So we might have to go back through that one. Yeah, absolutely. All right, thanks. I'm going to let Board Member Wicks take the lead on the consider on the panels. So on the go ahead with that. Consider switching to a 7.2 panel in either a horizontal or vertical orientation or at the minimum, run the proposed panel in a vertical fashion. That makes sense, Suzie. I'm still writing. Vertical. I try to speak extra slow for you, Suzie. You know, you're going to have to go extra slow from now on. So consider switching to a 7.2 panel. Can you fill in my gap after that? I've got, then I pick up at a minimum, run the proposed panel in a vertical fashion. Right, so after the 7.2 vertical or horizontal or orientation, in either a horizontal or vertical orientation is what I'm looking for on the 7.2 panel. Okay. Okay, consider switching to a 7.2 panel in either a vertical or horizontal orientation and at a minimum run the proposed panel in a vertical fashion. Yeah. Correct. Okay. Yay, I got one. And then did you have, I'm sorry, going back to the beginning, maybe we just read them off again so that the applicant can listen and let us know if they understand it. And then I think there might be one additional item, but I'll let you read it off first. So why don't you start from the top? That's torture. Okay. Starting from the top, shall not relocate on-site tree, plant a new tree instead. Shall utilize sheet A1.02 for planting sidewalk or planting between sidewalk and curb. Consider different species of trees specific to the site conditions. I'd like to add in in the swales if that's all right. That's appropriate. Okay. Shall provide lighting for staff to approve, providing adequate light in the parking lot. Consider a two by five, by two by five, or two and a half by two and a half window above the entryways on the south elevation. Woo-hoo, got that one there. Yep. All right, then I'll flip to my next page. Shall enhance architectural elements on east and west elevations. Two, I've already got the two and a half, okay. Sweet five, at least. Five by five window at second level. You know, we went back and redid this one. So let me cross that out. Consider a second level window on east side. And you know, I think board member Michael clarified that, and I got lost on it. But the last one, I think I've got. Consider switching to a 7.2 vertical or horizontal elevation at a minimum, run the proposed panel in vertical fashion. Nailed it. I nailed that one. I didn't nail the one before it though. Yeah. So board member Wagle, you want to take a stab at what you summarized before? Yeah. So the, this is specific, I think, to the east elevations. Correct. And I think Warren, and I think myself too now, we're saying shall provide a second story window at all units, minimum dimension of two and a half by two and a half square at units one, two, and three. And then a five by five window at units four and five. Because dimensionally, that's how it works with the sawtooth kind of thing. Is that right, Warren? Yes, that's fine. It's fine. Okay, so shall provide a second window on all units, a second floor window on all units on the east elevation, minimum, was it one and a half? Two and a half, two and a half by two and a half. By two and a half, and units four and five are five by five. Correct. And I would leave it as a consider, not a shall. Okay. To give the applicant some flexibility, because that may not work for them structurally, cost-wise, there's a lot of different reasons that may not work. So just wanted to give them some flexibility, but it's a strong suggestion on those elevations. I think it's a pointy. Okay, so do I have them all, did I? I think we got to tackle one other bohemith, and that's the parking and sight line and trash enclosure. So I'll give it a go. First, I think it's a shall work with staff, to determine if the sight line requirements can be reduced to add more parking spaces on the street frontage. Got that one? Yes, I do. Shall work with staff to determine if sight line requirement can be reduced to add more parking spaces along the street. I appreciate that clarification that we'll work with staff because this enters into our engineering development services realm. So we'll definitely need to have authorization from them. So I appreciate that clarification. Absolutely. And then if additional street parking can be made, consider relocating the trash enclosure and eliminating parking stalls as necessary to accommodate a standard size trash enclosure. I think that I would like to clarify something in the code. I don't think that we can reduce the parking on site more than 25%. All right, but if you pick up the, oh, more than 25%, I got it. I don't think we can. I can see if you give me a minute, I can clarify that, but I also have another correction to something I said earlier. The preliminary and final design review apparently was not completely, the two step process was not completely updated in the zoning code. So it is preliminary and you delegate to staff for final. So I wanna correct myself by share a hedge path. Sorry about that. That's all right. If it was guesswork, I'm happy at work. Okay, so before we move on, we'll amend that motion. Yeah, and can I take a couple of minutes, so a small recess to go ahead and research this parking? No, it's not. Yeah, why don't we take a five minute recess? Thank you. We'll go ahead and reconvene at 647. Okay, board members, are we board ready to restart the meeting at this point? Okay, I'll go ahead and ask all my fellow board members to turn their video back on. And all right, we've got everybody. So we'll go ahead and call the meeting back to order and turn it over to senior planner Murray for some insight into parking reduction. So the parking reduction that can be approved by the design review board is a maximum of 25%. There's another mechanism to get more than a 25%, but it would require another entitlement, a minor conditional use permit, which was not applied for. Okay, well, thank you for that clarification. So I believe that then we would just state that the applicant shall work with staff to reduce the sight line requirements in an effort to reduce the no parking zone as much as possible to provide for more informal on-street parking. I can add that in with the one exception is that the parking or the traffic study that was done made those recommendations for that sight line clearance. So we can work with staff. I can certainly check in with our traffic department and see, but it goes against the recommendation of the traffic engineer. Gotcha, so where there's latitude pursuant, I think is the answer. You got it. Awesome. And then we need to deal with the trash enclosure. My thought, and I'll look for some board member input is that we leave it super vague that we say that the size shall be adequate to meet all needs of the building and trash hauler and that the materiality of the trash enclosure meet the same requirements as the architectural intent of the building design. Any thoughts? I agree with that. That works for me keeping it vague. Yeah, cause otherwise they're gonna have to come back to us with trash enclosure changes. I don't really care to have that happen. Yeah, okay. Board member Wicks. Yeah, I wanna open up Pandora's box and get all the other property owners in trouble, but I've gotta go back and just beat up the street parking that's existing on Apollo. There's only one curb cut that has a three foot red section on it. If somebody parked a panel van three feet away from that curb cut, how does that not obstruct the view sight lines? I'm having trouble understanding why this is being imposed on this project. I understand a traffic engineer did it, maybe they did it for some unknown reason that I'm not getting, but I sat there on that curve and you can see a country mile through most cars and I guess I just like a stronger suggestion that some sort of rational approach to the on-street parking be some mechanism to add more in that location because if I'm going to see somebody that's, a sign company or a cabinet maker, I'm gonna wanna park on the street. I'm not gonna wanna go in the back and mix with employee parking. So that street, the entire stretch of Apollo and even in some sections wrapping around on other streets and in that business park as a whole, street parking is permissible and it looks to me that it's permissible very close to curb cuts. And I just wanna go on record of saying that. I appreciate that. I would tend to agree. I haven't seen the Caltrans standard used on anything other than a Caltrans related project. So it may have just been grab and go because it does provide pretty absolute clarity on the calculation. So. I was just compared with, yeah, I mean, we don't have someone, I guess, from engineering that could speak or transportation that could speak directly to it, but yeah, I found the same thing, I guess, with project plan review and the only thing that I can think of, like I was mentioning before is that it might be best practice for something that's a regional arterial or something like this. Whereas in the, you know, I get the recommendation again, but in the traffic study, it's, you know, there's no, technically there's nothing governing it, you know, this urban considered an urban collector or urban road. So, you know, I appreciate Henry pushing on this some more just because of precedence there, but also a dangerous kind of precedent being set for, you know, additional zones. I mean, one thing if this is a 50 mile an hour kind of spot, yeah, I think we would all be concerned. I think that, yeah, yeah, but, you know, to maximize that and to have that frontage, I would agree with that. Chair Kinkade and members, thank you for that. I think as I mentioned earlier, we certainly need anything once it gets out in the public right away and has to go through our engineering development services. So I'm hopeful that the board would be okay with, you know, including it as a consider, a strong consider and we'll make every effort to do that. I think we're relying on some Caltrans standards out in that area as well. But again, we really need to work with our colleagues in the engineering department on this one. So if that's, if that's satisfactory, that would be the staff recommendation. That's satisfactory. So Planner Murray, do you have that all dialed in? Well, actually, I was just thinking that the way you crafted that condition shall work with staff to determine if the site line requirement can be reduced to allow more parking, allow more street parking. I think that that is very well written. I think it's very clear. We will work with, as Bill said, our colleagues in engineering development services and see if perhaps we can reduce that site line red zone. Great, perfect. So let's go ahead and check in with the applicant on these conditions to see if they're clear and see if any of them create too much problem to continue forward with the development. I think what I've got everything is doable. I might say that if the window could it be like a window shape or does it have to actually be a window? That would be a question. We can just create a facade or whatever, but I know windows are good too, but if just as an idea, if we can deal away with windows per se and just go with a feature, the eyebrow feature box. But other than that, I'm fine with the windows as well. So it's either way, what's your preference is fine too. Appreciate your flexibility. I'll go ahead and turn it back to Vice Chair Hetchbeth. I believe I know his answer, but we'll let him say it. Well, I'm happy you're willing to go either way. And the virtual windows, they're honest, they're real and the labor to put them in. It may be a sniff more than just an after effect, but I find it distracting to put something in it. It looks like a window that isn't a window. And if you're willing to go with a window, you've got the health of the people in that. There's several board members mentioned two-sided light. It's really something about well-being physiology. You're gonna have healthier people and it's real and you like it and I like it. Great, thank you. Vice Chair Hetchbeth, is that all right to the applicant? Yes, yes, absolutely. I think I agree 100%. Great, thanks again for your flexibility. So we need to do a couple of things. You have board member waggle, I see your hand, go ahead. Yeah, I was just thinking about something else and I would like to add one more consider, I'm sorry, but I think it'll, again, I think this gives the applicant some flexibility, but it's consider skylights for the shock space in the rear. If we're gonna have this conversation about windows and health and natural light, I think they need to consider skylights for the shock space. And just clarify further for the applicant when we say consider, it's just that it's a consideration. Don't have to move forward with it. It's a recommendation when we say shall then you shall move forward with the board direction. So I think that's a good consideration. If Senior Planner Murray can add that to the list, let's go ahead and do that. Okay, so we need to do a couple of things. First thing we need to do is modify the motion to the original motion, which was to grant preliminary and defer final to staff. So Vice Chair Hetchbeth can amend his motion. That would be great. Here and we're not doing that anymore. Yeah, remember? Go ahead. Okay, well, I just wanted to say for the record that I like my motion to be, to accept preliminary design review with conditions and defer final to staff. Excellent. And Board Member Corden-Brock, you were the seconder of that motion. Would you accept the amended motion? Yes. Excellent. And then we need one of the other three board members to request to add the friendly amendments as were addressed by Senior Planner Murray. I can do that. I will request to add the friendly amendments as recorded by Senior Planner Murray. Great. Okay. And does the motioner accept the friendly amendments? Yes. And does the second accept the friendly amendments? Yes. Excellent. And we are due for a roll call, Patty. Okay, roll call and vote. Board Member Wicks. Aye. Board Member Weigel. Aye. Board Member Sharon. Aye. Board Member Corden-Brock. Aye. Vice Chair Hedges. Aye. And Chair Kincaid. Aye. Great. You are approved to move forward and we very much thank you for your investment in Santa Rosa and wish you the best of luck in your project out of the ground. To the left. Thank you. Okay, I believe we're gonna take a 10 minute recess, stretch our legs, let staff swap over to the next presentation, take a break themselves. So let's go ahead and reconvene at seven, 10. Warren, this is Bill Rose. Oh, sorry. You're unmuted, there you go. I'm sorry. Okay, Board Members, I think we're ready to start. I'll go ahead and the meeting has been started. We're gonna go ahead and take the screen down the slide down. And it looks like we've got all our Board Members. So we'll go ahead and reconvene the meeting. Thank you for the short break. We will move on to Item 8.2. This is a concept design review item for ACME Family Apartments located at 1885, Sebastopol Road, file number DR20-058. And we have Senior Planner, Kristen A. Tumians to give us a staff report. Chair Kinkade, it looks like Kristen A. has not logged on yet, so if you'll just bear with us for a moment. You got it, thank you. Thank you, Chair Kinkade. Can you hear me? Loud and clear, good evening. Good evening. Thank you, Chair Kinkade, and members of the Design Review Board. I have two items to present for you tonight, both are concept items. The first one is ACME Family Apartments. And what I'll do is I'll present a brief overview of the project in terms of context and zoning. And the applicant will go through Attachment 4, which is their plan set in a little bit more detail. So ACME Family Apartments is located at 1885, Sebastopol Road in the Roseland area. And the proposed project is four three-story walk-up apartment buildings with 76 affordable units, any manager's unit. And the parking will be a mix of surface parking spots and tandem tuck under parking garages. There is a proposed outdoor community space behind the leasing building that includes a top lot and sports court. And as you can see, it's located in the southwest quadrant of the city, north of Sebastopol Road and just to the east of Stony Point Road. And it's in the Roseland specific plan area. Here is a aerial of the project site. I believe it's an auto wrecking yard, ACME auto wrecking or auto auto yard. And it's right next to a newer multi-family project to the east and to the west is a commercial shopping center. This is a general plan and zoning. And like a lot of the parcels along Sebastopol Road, it has dual general plan designation and zoning, which is a mix of commercial, general commercial and retail business services. And along the back, it's R318 and medium residential, which is designed for higher density residential. And with that, I'm gonna turn it, I'm gonna start the applicants or put up the applicants attachment for the plant scent, which is in your packet and they will go through their design proposal. Thank you, Kristina. Can everybody hear me? Loud and clear. And if you could introduce yourself and your relationship to the project and then anybody else from your presentation team, they could do the same if they're gonna speak as well. Okay, thank you. And I'll move to the whole set sheet by sheet. Kristina, if you could go to sheet 18, which is the landscape site plan, we'll maybe we'll start there. Good evening, board members. My name is Keith Levis with KTGY Group. We are the project architect. And along with me here, I don't know if he's been unmuted yet, but Mark Schattinger with MJS Landscape Architects. I'll start by just going through the basics of the site plan and some of the architecture and then turn it over to Mark to discuss some of the landscape and amenity features. So what you see here on the, let's see here, okay. What you see here is the site plan, the landscape site plan. I thought it'd be best to look at this since it's most illustrative. The proposal is for 77 units, as Kristina said, in four three-storey buildings and one one-storey building, which is the building on the far right located near the entry of Sebastopol, which is the leasing and amenity buildings. The other three buildings are three-storey walk-up apartment buildings with tandem tuck under parking on the dry vial side, which is what you see on, we'll say, plan north here. So the main entry to the property is located off Sebastopol and there's a continuous dry vial that runs the length of the property and connects to a secondary access point off of Cendero in the rear. On the north end, it's actually east end, but plan north end adjacent to the existing townhome development. We have surface parking landscape and two trash enclosure areas on the bottom side of that dry vial are the four buildings with access to the tuck under tandem garages and also entry points to the buildings, which you can see are those areas that where you can see the stair delineated there. So there are entry points off of the dry vial for where people exit their garage and park in the surface parking. And then there's also an access point on the first floor where that breezeway continues through to connect to this landscape area, which is a buffer between the four three-storey buildings and the adjacent commercial property. So if you could go to maybe go up three sheets to the first rendering, one more please, there you go. So here you get the view from the east of what the building massing looks like from south to north there along the entry drive on the far left, we have the one-storey community building and behind that are some open space and many areas, which I'll let Mark talk about in a moment here. And then you see the four buildings there, which are identical except for the building closest to the amenity building, which has a stack of units removed to create the density that was allowed and that we could achieve. And also to open a more open space on the site adjacent to that leasing and amenity building. You can see while in the footprints on the site, they appear to be relatively massive building footprints you can see in this shot here, how the buildings step back, the see those tandem garage doors located off of the entry drive and the spaces between all the buildings which connect from the trash and the surface parking to the backside to that large green open space that runs along to the site and connects one end of the site to the other and the amenities. If you could go to the next slide down. So here's a closer view of right off of the entry drive with the one-story amenity building and one of the typical three-story apartment buildings there. The massing and the height of the buildings overall is really dictated by the fire code here. For those of you that work with buildings this scale, you can make sure you know that within recent years, especially the fire because of fires in this area but and then say fire code that the fire department is being very strict about access in particular buildings over 30 feet. So because we cannot achieve the separation from the drive aisle to the building between 15 and 30 feet for aerial apparatus, we're forced to keep this building height as it's measured to the eaves or to the intersection of the eaves and that perimeter wall at 30 feet or less. So we believe the building, there's a lot of movement on the building both from the step back at the first floor, the insets at the entries and those common stairwells but the overall height and we're limited in terms of movement at the plate line by that maximum 35 foot requirement put on us by fire. The architecture itself is pretty simple in terms of the materials is primarily stucco. We're looking at maybe two different colors here with some accents around the windows, trims and then color accents around the windows and then using this wood-like cementitious veneer at the entries to the buildings to pop those out and make those special as well as at the entry to the clubhouse on the far left. If you go to the next slide and here's an entry, a shot of the project entry with the lobby to the leasing and amenity building there again, that entry being celebrated with that material and the volume and then you can see the three-story buildings in the rear. Maybe we could pass this over to Mark. Maybe if you go down one more slide to the landscape plan, Mark can start from there again. Yeah. Thank you, Keith. And good evening, board members. My name is Mark Schadiger, principal with MGS Landscape Architecture. So let me run through this. I think, Christina, let's go to the next sheet that are enlargements so the board members can see it in more detail. So off of Sebastopol, we have an entry plaza to the lobby. The plaza will be your welcome plaza. You can wait for your rideshare at your short-term bike parking. And then behind the building, we have really the social hub of the community. This is where groups would get together to barbecue, play sport games on the sports court. We have a children's tot lot and we also have raised vegetable pots for those who want to do that. So this is really more meant to be more social but because of the linear site, we have created this walking path on the rear. As you can see, you've got the garages off the drive aisle but everyone's really living off of the rear here which really is the best sun exposure as well. It's facing west. So we've identified the entries into the buildings when some sort of special paving, enhanced paving and along this route from Sebastopol to the rear of the site, we have exercise stations, we have areas for individuals to barbecue, we have pedestal barbecues. Let's go to the next one, Christina, please. And then it ends up going out and we do hope to make a connection to the trail, the regional trail as well through the Cendero Channel Project site. So it's really a well-connected community. The whole backyard, it's a minimum of 25 feet wide. As you can see, the building's undulating. So it gets up to about 28 feet wide. And on the ground level, we've enlarged the private patios off the units. So they're much larger than the patios on the upper storage as well. So that's the highlight. Go back to the first overall site plan, Christina. We had some images. So we're talking about a pedestal barbecue on the lower left, some exercise stations. We have a total of four of those on the site. We have Totlot and then we have the Resonant Community Garden as well. We do plan on building a new wood fence on the west side. And there's already an existing masonry wall for the Cendero townhomes on the north, on the east side. And we do have bioswells that are taking up that five-foot planting area on the east side as well. So if you have any questions, I'll be here. Thank you. I think that's it for now. Otto Marcus, would you like to add anything? Sure. I just wanted to give a little background on the project. My company, Milestone Housing Group, we competed last summer for a special disaster area tax credits that were awarded in Sonoma County. Six projects successfully competed for funding. And we were one of the six that won. And we had support from the housing folks in the city as part of that application. So thanks for having us tonight. Thanks for being here and congratulations on the funding award. That's great news for a portable housing project here. And we appreciate you bringing it forward. Our concept design review, since we don't have anything to vote on are very informal. So we'll have some kind of back and forth dialogue between the board and yourselves. And just keep it casual and give our input and we'll hopefully get you moving forward in a sound direction because you've got a great start. So with that, we can go ahead and tackle questions for staff real quick and then I'm going to open up public hearings. So let's go to questions for staff. Let's see, board member or Wagle? Okay, I wrote some notes here. But I got a quick question first or two quick questions. So I was curious about the fence design because it doesn't really in there. Maybe the applicant can speak to that. And then it looked like there was a dog walk over at the north end of the site kind of on the west side. I think it's a dog walk area. And I just wanted some clarity on that if they could speak to that. And then I can make my quick comments. Did you want staff or the landscape architecture respond to that? I think the landscape architecture would be appropriate. This is Mark. So no, there is no designated dog walking area currently in the site plan. And the wood fence would just simply be as high as eight feet along. It is all back of house for the adjacent commercial site. It's not well maintained. So we would like to get it as high as possible. And six feet, we don't think is adequate, but you let us know what your feelings are about that. Yeah, that's probably not well maintained. You're probably right. Typically we have, we, the board has the, but I don't think this would be, this would qualify for an exemption would go to staff. So the, I believe the zoning administrator could potentially grant that. I personally be okay with the taller fence and that would be put into the notes for the zoning administrator for their applicant, their review and approval of the project. So that's just my opinion. So I'm just going to read what I wrote, make it easy. And, but overall a good, good project. I'm familiar with KTGY and the work that you guys do in California and across the country. But I feel like this project site is in a unique position because it's kind of an infill site to transition between the large housing development to the east and the north and the shopping area to the west. So the architecture feels almost like too residential if that makes sense. It feels almost a little bit too much like the stuff to the east. And so I wonder if it might make sense to push the envelope a little bit in terms of the architecture itself, keep the floor plans, keep everything else, get rid of the gable, try something different where you can potentially push the idea of a more angular or rectilinear approach that bridges from the commercial to the residential. I also like the amenities provided in the complex. I like how you, I think in the original documents and what Chris and they presented, the sport court and the top lot were kind of separated apart because of an EVA access thing. It looks like that's been resolved because there's a connection to an existing street. So I like how you've kind of centered it up at the front and it feels like there's a lot of generous community space. And I also really like the buffer gap between the buildings and the fence and the commercial space because I think that might be a well utilized area for the residents. You've given them a lot of kind of landing spots and other things that they can take advantage of. And then lastly, I think your project could benefit from some variation in color to liven it up. It's a pretty bland palette as it is currently. And while they're nice materials, I think you could play off some of the unique color schemes that exist along Sebastopol Road. And the adjacent housing project also has a blend of colors. It's not all the same homogenous color. So I think, you know, between all of that, that could improve your project greatly beyond that. Again, great project. Looking forward to see it approved by the zoning administrator and Bill, because of course we always talk about how much housing we need. I also love that it's a 100% affordable project. It's pretty slick. And that's something we desperately need here in our community. So thank you, KTGY and the applicant, appreciate it. Thank you, Board Member Wegel. Since we jumped into comments as well, I'm gonna take a breather and open it up for public comment just so the applicants will wear public comment. Period isn't prescribed for concept design review items, but we've generally afforded the members of the public a chance to speak because we don't get to see this again. It goes to the zoning administrator. So just a chance for public input. So at this time, I'd like to open up public comment. Any members of the public wishing to speak on this project are afforded three minutes. So we'll give it a second and see if we've got any interested parties. Okay. So far, no hands have been raised. So if anybody would like to speak, they can raise their hand and I'm gonna mute you. That's a pretty serious echo on my end, Patty. So just letting you know that the microphone might not be working properly. So I'll reiterate what Recording Secretary Terry said is that if you're a member of the public and interested in providing comment, please raise your hands so that they can unmute you. I'm sure I can hear this mic from the hosts. We don't have anybody raising their hands right now. Okay, we'll give it 30 more seconds. If I could just remind everyone who's not speaking, if they could please mute their microphones. Okay. So you know when I come forward, we will go ahead and close the public comment period and continue on with discussion, questions and comments from board members. So we'll move on to board member Cordenbrock. Yes, thank you. I really appreciate the package. I also appreciate seeing, and I don't know that I, but I really appreciate seeing the three dimensional kind of bird's eyes and stuff and this is the conceptual level and everything, but it just lends so much more weight to the presentations and for most of us thinking three dimensions and visualizing in 3D is kind of how, at least I think and I think most people in the world that aren't planometric type designers and stuff like that can really help them out. So I appreciate seeing this stuff, especially in 3D at this early stage. So I really like Drew's comment about the transition in architectural style. I won't say anything more than that other than I really, I agree with that, that comment. And then let's see, I also would agree with kind of the liveliness of color and either material choice or palette. It really needs to kind of be, I think pumped up a bit. It's kind of in terms of the shades and everything are kind of muted and kind of tending towards the adjacent commercial property more than kind of lending themselves to the adjacent development as well as the neighborhood as a whole or the corridor as a whole. Let's see. Yeah, I really appreciate the amenity space and I looked at this a few times and tried to figure out can you, how the site plan can maybe work if you were to orient the buildings to match the adjacent residential but that kind of got really messy real quick just because of the kind of that language is already in there as well as, I know it's a pipe dream, but extending the corridors or the drives through to this lot, which won't happen, but lofty idea. But I think what you've done is great with the space that you have with such a long slender lot. The amenity space is really nice and I think you've created some really nice spots for people to just sit and stay and relax. If anything, maybe cutting down on one of the parkour stations or finding or carving out something that's more of a contemplative space because right now it feels just really, really linear but maybe there's a place where you can kind of carve out some more kind of quiet zones aside from kind of getting through between buildings or something like that. But otherwise, yeah, it looks great. I appreciate keeping some existing trees and kind of highlighting those. Yeah, and then my last comment would be on, I guess it's a 6.1 or even the, basically the overall bird's eye perspective is when you're kind of coming into the development, one of the most, I guess, at least from a human's perspective, the most visual or highly visible feature is the garage door. And so if there's some attention to be paid to the detail on the garage door because it is very serial, it's kind of just striking all the way down on that corridor. If there's a way to do it with frosted glass or panels or something that's, obviously it's got to be within budget but something that could really kind of make that at least the more signature piece or something that's a little bit more approachable, especially with how long this project is. Yeah, I appreciate the orchard style parking best to your ability on that. And so, yeah, I think those are my only comments. I don't have any questions either. But yeah, so appreciate it. Thank you. That's all my comments. Thank you, Board Member Cordenbrock. Board Member Wicks. Comments, questions? Yeah, pretty easy after hearing my fellow board members hit spot on on most of my comments already. Just to re-emphasize that, all the pitch troops could be ditched in my opinion and come up with a better transitional as Drew said, a better transitional between the commercial block and the residences to the east. I have a question for the applicant. The tandem parking, it doesn't go into a parking garage, but I'm just curious if you could explain to me quickly how that would work. Would it be two spaces rented to one unit or just wondering how the inboard car gets out if it's not related to one renter? Yeah, sure. This project has a large number of two bedroom and three bedroom units in excess of the total number of tandem parking garages. And so yes, we would reserve it to one household garage to avoid that issue. Makes sense. And the 10 foot dimension in your other projects, you find that successful. I know I wouldn't measure a couple of my cars and I've lived in a tandem environment before and 11 feet seems to be kind of the minimum, but what's your experience been with the 10 foot? I mean, I'm relying on our architect on that one. Keith, do you have any comments you wanna make? Yeah, I can speak that. So we call it out as 10 feet minimum to meet code, but if you look at maybe, I'd say, if you look at the building plans, you'll see that two tandem garages fit right behind the one bedroom. That one bedroom unit is like 24 feet wide. So the garages, they vary a few inches that they're stacking with walls above and that's part of the efficiency of the plan. But the garage has really varied from 11 to 12 feet in width. Okay. It's just that with that tandem, it's in a six foot to a seven foot wide car with mirrors and trying to get from front to back. It's just a little on the difficult side, but given the type of units in smaller cars, hopefully it'll work good. Another question for applicant, you are at your maximum number of units? Yeah, we went in with the density bonus. We achieved 77 units was the maximum. Seed by what 35% the underlying density. We can't really go any more parking constrained effectively and cost constrained by trying to go higher density than that. All right, I was just hoping you might say there was room for one more. And I'll just, I'll put it in my comments, but thank you for answering questions. Love the project overall. Something we need in Santa Rosa. I'd love you to consider in taking our comments and perhaps making a more contemporary version of this that the front building be a little bit taller, maybe a couple of feet taller as it relates to the streetscape. I also drove by here too and this whole entire side of that street has been in transition and you're help filling, avoid in there and not too many file, the used parts dealership, I went to that when I was in high school and found some scrap parts from my Volkswagen, but I'm glad to see it's being replaced with what you're proposing. But I'd love to see that streetscape be just a little bit taller, even if it was just a couple of feet. And I was gonna suggest maybe the apartment manager's unit go on top of that, but if you're at your max, that's probably not feasible. But the back of house, you know, I just, I love basketball and I just, I see that those basketballs going over the fence, you know, I'd love to think we all switched the net, but you know, there's gonna be some airballs that find their way into that no man's land between the commercial building and the fence and you know, kids are inventive and they'll figure out a way to get it, but I'd be encouraged or I would encourage either a taller fence or a net fence combination or something to keep having to go back into that alleyway. It'd be nice if it wasn't back house, it was just solid wall and you could work in agreement with the neighbor to let it be the backboard. But I think that's really all I wanted to comment and just echo my two board members that spoke before me. I agree wholeheartedly with their comments. Thank you, board member Wicks, board member Sharon. So thank you. Yeah, and thank you for the project. Yeah, it's, I'm really glad to see the affordability component and also the emphasis on the two and three bedrooms. This is really great. I'm gonna be great addition to the neighborhood and to the city. I also will, I was going through my list of notes here and my fellow board members really ticked them all off, which is great. Henry got the last one with the back of the sport court. I also was wondering about that too. It was kind of an aside, just I knew you'd probably be thinking of it, but just, yeah, it's, you know, it's, yeah. I have a seven year old and I can see him kicking up all over that fence and loving it and making me go back over that fence many, many times in a row. So, but yeah, I think that you're well on your way to thinking about things like that, which is great. And I won't belabor the points, but I think that the, just, you know, there is plenty of the kind of, for lack of a better term than mass residential feel with what's going on next door and then going on with the new development across the Radota Trail over by the highway. There's, you know, and those are, you know, the kind of traditional style housing that has been mentioned. And so I think it's a really good point about thinking the transition between commercial to residential and you actually have a really great opportunity to do something more interesting or, you know, or not more interesting but just do something interesting to play with that, to be that buffer. And so go with that. And I think that the, one of my comments is going to be about livening it up and warmth. And so incorporating that, so modern and warmth and bringing that together. When I first opened up the package and I saw the rendering with on the clubhouse stone veneer I thought that that was wood and I was really excited by that. I thought that that was going to be a really nice, you know, that is worn in the previous project mentioned humane design of having something as warmth and something that's really tactile. And, you know, it's okay that it's stone but if, you know, thinking about bringing in that warmth that section of town has a lot of pavement and a lot of commercial buildings. So going with the warmth would be really good through material and through color. And so keep running with that. I also wanted to hear specifically about the fence on the west side. Glad that you were thinking about wood. I definitely think you can go high with that to cover up that back of house. As far as the two or three bedrooms and the amenities and you're emphasizing, you know I'm envisioning a lot of families. I think as Brent mentioned before of carving out some spaces for contemplation, for gathering, there's going to be a lot of people here. And so making some of these outdoor spaces be less of that linear feel and more of nooks and crannies and nodes where people can gather as well. You're going to have the connection between those nodes are going to be the linear side but then thinking about those nodes, the gathering spots. So really thinking about kids and thinking about families. Go with that. And you mentioned that you're hoping to connect to the Joe Radota trail and up, you know going up on the north side in Sandero. And yeah, please do, please do that and really prioritize that as much as possible. Because that's a really great opportunity there. I'm a great many to have. And so keep running with that. And well, a question about the raised beds as well. I definitely like the idea of raised beds and having food production on site is a really great thing to do. Just having for 77 units and having four raised beds though. It's like who gets to use those? What are they there for? Can you sprinkle though if you want to make them raised beds that you're having people really engaging and having some ownership over their site outside of their units, which is what thinking of like in Britain with the allotment system, it's like you have this outdoor space that you have your city home and then you have a separate space that you can actually have ownership to and it gives you a breathing room. If there can be a nod to that throughout the site that can really help with the community feel there. Having just four raised beds at the community center. Do they necessarily even need to be raised beds or should they be some other type of planter or water feature or something? If they're not for everybody, are they for just some people and what it gets to be sort of a quality issue? And I like the nod to it, but I don't want it to be tokenized somehow too. I think you including it is a really great sign that you're thinking about that. And so again, just keep thinking about that and keep trying to infuse the whole site with those types of ideas. The life, the warmth, that part of town is full of it. And so embrace it. And I think it's gonna be great. Thank you so much for this type of development and investing up here. Thanks so much. Thank you, board member Sharon, Vice Chair Hedgbeth. Thank you, Chairman K. Yes, I've heard a lot of exciting comments. It was interesting that in the notes for the narrative, they're looking for 60% PV. And what's interesting is they've done an excellent job of taking a very narrow site and threading a lot of density right in the money to the max. And because of the height of the buildings, the carports are gonna be in shade in that West, late morning light. It's interesting that you can do a parapet building with bathtub or you can even have an EVE, an overhang. I don't have to share with you what that is too much, but just quickly said, this is just a rough dumb sketch, but if you have a projection and you go flat roof per Drew's comment, they're making a lot of PV panels now that they're very thin, the one company is called Sola, but it's the integration all of a sudden of the entire structure, the membrane, the PV all together in one deal. I don't want fire ladders to crunch and scramble with things that if they're too delicate, but I'm one that likes to at least have 50% shadow EVE line on a flat roof rather than the whole thing via bathtub, parapet. So if it went that way, if it was more of a flat roof situation, my feeling is the solar is probably gonna be on the roof because the performance in the carports is not that great. I liked Henry's comment about slightly oomping up, growing up the front building and the colors. That's wonderful. If this thing went into a hybrid where it's not a parapet, it's actually a very, it's a two in one slope roof instead of the four and 12, you could do this kind of a win-win where it's a membrane roof and it's sloping maybe two and 12 and you get an EVE line out of it and you get your solar panels, you can't see because it's restores up and you don't have parapets and that can be a happy thing to builders because parapets are something you've got to chase and you've got to vent and they can be unkind where sometimes you gently sloping roofs have a happy ring to the carpenters. So I wanted to source a kind thing also that was said by Adam and that is, I've seen a lot of these corrugated metal planters and they tend to be structurally unsound. They kind of fall apart, they kind of blow it out. You can reinforce the back but I'm a super fan of core plate core tent that's stuck together. The other thing is CMU block that's four inch, right from Home Depot four inch by 16 but either four inch by 16 or core 10 and I loved Adam's idea of just scattering that planter sunshine all over the place and if someone wants to do ice plans that have broccoli, great that I'm not a fan of the corrugated, I think it's not as long-term but I think the finistrations, excellent, KTGY works wonderful, you kind of explode out through these, the building separation is a heartbeat of life because if the whole thing was together the far department like it but at least you've got enough distance between the buildings to go from what I call your private Paseo to the parking. So anyway, those are my comments and be mindful that you can go almost flat and get Drew excited but you don't have to have the parapet if you want a shadow on, that's all. Thank you Vice Chair Hitchbeth. My comments, I would echo everything that's been said thus far as Adam put it, he checked a lot of my boxes. One of the kind of clarifications that either the applicant or staff can make is do we not know whether that connection to Cendero is EVA connection or if it's an actual pass-throughs parking to street connection to either, is that TBV? I'll jump in here, Chair Kintz. Kristin might have more information, the applicant might have more information from their own due diligence but staff hasn't prepared, as you know, with concept. We haven't done that detailed analysis. So unless Kristin has anything else staff probably does not have that information. Yeah, I'm afraid I don't, I'm not as familiar with the neighboring development. And I would say that we know we have the EDA, right? But I don't know that it's clear that we have just general access, just pedestrian access rights. So, Kintz, do you know differently or Mark? I don't. This is something that CIVL brought up after we had started planning the project. Maybe they have more information on it. It's all right, I can make my comment. My comment would be that if it were possible I'd like it to see it be a direct connection as opposed to UVA only. So I'll just make that comment. And then I'm glad Warren brought up to solar. I would prefer to see it on the roof as well. I don't see any carports detailed out. And so if carports were to come into play I think that would be a design element that we'd be interested in commenting on and we're not going to be afforded that. So prefer to see them go on the roof. Let's see, what else did I have? Oh, the garage doors. Appreciate the comment to give it a little oomph because it is very repetitive. And I would also encourage there to be some translucent elements so that property management can make sure they're being used as garages and not only storage areas. Otherwise I think you're gonna be hard pressed for parking and you're gonna have some pretty upset tenants. So just encourage some sort of translucent that you can actually inspect but maybe not totally clear. So I think those are my comments. I know that as we go through comments and some clarification questions board members often have some secondary comments or parting comments. So I'll go ahead and afford any board member who wants to add a few more, please do so. I can see you all. So if you just want to give me a, all right. Well, that's great. Then does the applicant have anything that you'd like clarification on from suggestions that the board has made thus far? And Keith or Mark? I do, this is Keith with Keith's UI. I appreciate all your comments. Thank you. We always say that, if we're talking about colors we're in a pretty good place. I think the one comment that was pretty much made across the board and it's something I kind of tried to address maybe in my comments when I was presenting is that we too would prefer maybe something a little more contemporary, a flat roof but the way the fire code is now and the way heights measured and access we're really stuck with a pitched roof because it's the way that 30 feet is measured it's either to the intersection of the roof and wall or the top of the parapet. And we're right at that just under that 30 foot mark at that intersection of the roof and top plate at the third floor. So if we were to add a parapet on top of this we would exceed the required or the minimum height limit for fire access. So we've been working with we're working on a few different projects in the city right now and talking to Ian Hartage at fire about all these and that's the only thing he's stressing to us he's fine with the access. We've got the two points of access because over 50 units but it's that 30 foot maximum height. So we're happy to look at the remainder of the building to try to see what we can do both with color and with the window styles and other things to try to make it feel a little more contemporary and definitely the color we can add color and punch. But unfortunately, I think we're kind of stuck with the pitched roof which again makes it more difficult to do the solar on the roof that's what we're trying to do because it breaks the roof in half and but yeah, we'll do our best to try to bring up the architecture and the colors to meet your comments. So we're fine with that. And then also raising the height on the front building that's not an issue. So we're happy to do that as well. And Keith, maybe we can make the front building more contemporary since we know it's only one story. I mean, we could it's just now that it becomes a matter of does it feel out of place with the other building? So that's something we can look at. Yeah. That's why I'm not an architect. I guess my, yeah, Scott. Yeah, I was gonna ask for comments. Yeah, I agree with, yeah, I hadn't, I saw the 30 feet in the plan set. And I think when I was just mulling over the design I hadn't thought about that but I totally agree with you in terms of kind of where you've been limited. I think maybe a way to address what we're talking about is not doing comp single roof, doing something else like standing seam or those sorts of things. And actually with the standing seam roof you actually get a, you can use those, whatever they're called, C-18 plants or whatever to do your solar array system. And you don't have to like drill into the roof and things like that. So there's some flexibility there I think exploring alternative roof types that may provide for what we're looking for a little bit. Thanks, Board Member Weigl. I was thinking standing seam as well. So I agree with that exploration comment. Vice Chair Hedgespeth, you were very vocal about the transition and roof lines. Do you wanna make any comments to that? Sure. All I was really thinking of to address the in-heartage was you keep the 30 foot plate and you frame, I know you're probably looking at TGI 14s are less expensive than 11s. That's typically what happens in these buildings in the floor framing. You can get down to 11, but as you work through your plate heights, everyone wants the nine foot plate height. My only comment was I was a non-parapet guy. I didn't wanna make it higher. I'm just saying that if you could have that in-heartage plate stop, that height and have framing out rigged beyond it, whether that means the top floor is eight feet, it was only a suggestion that you can lower your pitched roof and satisfy the 30 foot line and still have your unit verticality. But I'm gonna not get in the weeds with this whole conversation. I'm not that troubled with the traditional aspect of what's going on. I know that comp roof, when you look at the fighting way of what happens with tax credits and what they're trying to do, there's a certain threshold. I don't even know if they can afford standing seam roof, but if you integrated with panels, that's another thing. But I'm just simply saying that low slope roofs are something we've done where we don't use a pre-manufactured trust, we use TGI's and pitch the TGI and rock the underside of it, and it's shallow, and that's one way to go to. That's all, no worries. Any other board member comments? Again, I think it was echoed throughout and picked up by the applicant when we're talking about these kind of minute details on a sizable project, we're in a good spot. So they were well-designed, appreciate the package, gives us something to see our teeth into. Really look forward to seeing this be built. And thank you very much for your presentation and investment in Santa Rosa. And thanks a lot for all your feedback. Thank you all. You bet. Have a good evening. You too, take care. Okay, well, I don't know that we need to take a break unless I see anybody waving at me, but we'll certainly afford staff some time to switch over to another presentation and let the next applicants get ready to present on 8.3. I think we're ready to go, Chair Kincaid. Okay, fantastic. So we'll go ahead and move right in then to item 8.3. This is a concept design review for canine companions, canine early development center located at 2965 Dutton Avenue, file number DR20-063. And we have senior planner, Kristin A. Chumans to give us a presentation. Thank you again, Chair Kincaid and members of the designer view board. This project is located at 2965 Dutton Avenue. And it's been at this location for quite some time. And what they're asking for is advice on a proposed one-story 27,791-square-foot canine early development center and a one-story 4,927-square-foot veterinary clinic and animal hospital. That would be at the existing canine companions facility and will facilitate an expansion for their business. The project is located in the South, the West quadrant and it is along Dutton Avenue and is adjacent to Colgan Creek. And it's currently developed as a canine companions campus where they train dogs for people with various disabilities. The project is zoned IL, light industrial and the general plan is light industrial. If this project moves forward, you will see it again for major designer view and minor use permit will go to the zoning administrator. The applicants will talk through their design more specifically. They added some colored elevations that were included as applicant presentation in the packet and I will put those up and let the applicant talk through their design. I think Ken LaFranchi will begin. Good evening all, this is Ken LaFranchi I'm the project architect. Thank you for having us tonight. Chair Kincaid and group, I know it's getting late in the night and I appreciate you doing the service that you're doing. I think before I start describing the design, Paige Mazzoni, who's the CEO of canine companions, as background to the project, I think having her describe a little bit of what they do at the facility would be helpful. So Paige, hopefully you're on. And if you're on page, if you can raise your hand so that the hosts can see you and allow you to be unmuted, that would be fantastic. All right, can you hear me now? Yes, we can loud and clear, welcome. Great, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for having us again. I'll try to keep this short. I know it's late and we appreciate all of your time. So we are a nonprofit that provides highly trained service dogs to people with disabilities. We are national. This is our national headquarters. We do have six campuses across the US. We are the largest provider of service dogs in the world and in the country as well. We need this building. We do all our own breeding because there is a much higher success rate with dogs that are purposefully bred to be service dogs. We need this facility because we have over 400 people on our way list. And there are a lot of people with disabilities who need our dogs, including veterans, children, adults, and professionals. And so we are hoping to move into a new site that would be built with the biosecurity of a hospital and the durability of a prison basically, so that we can take care of the dogs and the best way capable and ensure that as many of them as possible can graduate and be paired with people who need them to change their lives and create independence. So our campus was first built in 1996 on a donation of land from Jeannie and Charles Schultz. And so this is the continuation of the last two acres of that headquarters campus. Great, thank you, Paige. Scott, am I back on? Loud and clear, Kim. Great, thank you. Kristen, if you want to put up maybe the site plan, we can walk through it quickly. The design, just for the knowledge of the board, the design team is online tonight or with us tonight. So Don McNair is here, the landscape architect, and he will speak to the landscaping. The civil engineering is done by Adobe and Associates. So Dave Brown and Casey McDonald are both available if you had any questions regarding that. And then Kristen, how about the landscape site plan? It's the last drawing in the sheet. It might read a little bit better for the group. There we go. Oh, maybe it doesn't. I don't know about that scale. I'm not sure. Is that helpful to the board or is that just too muddy? I like it, it's a good one. So just the north is right on the page. So the site itself is at the north end of Dutton. There's actually, Dutton does not continue north of the property at present. There are no improvements. They're slated to be done sometime in the future, but there's a creek crossing and that is a ways out. So as Paige said, security is a huge issue for the organization. The campus is 12.87 acres in total and the area that you're looking at now is just under three acres. So the nine acres of existing campuses to the left of the page to the south. And it's a fully developed center. They have the veterinary clinic there because of the needs. They lease an 18,000 square foot building across the street right now. So the result of this will allow them to allow that lease to expire to bring the early development center onto the property and to build a new vet center also on the property as the other ones getting a little bit dated. So the two structures that you see, the one again is the CEDC, the canine early development center is the larger the two and the smaller one to the west or to the upper portion of the page is the vet building. The existing entrance off of Dutton is just above the word landscape on this drawing. And again, you drive in and it appeals to the left. The roadway that circles the property is to the left of the CEDC building, that's there. So the improvements would include another entrance just at the north end of the property off of Dutton and that would circle around the back of the property and provide, well, circular access, if you will, to both buildings. The features, you know, the security issues, again, there'll be a fence along the front of the property we're gonna propose it's not in the drawings. I apologize for that. It would be a six foot or eight foot high steel fence, pickets and again, the intent is there's some homeless issues in that area and that's an ongoing problem. So they've recently fenced with permits the back of the property, the west side and the north side, but we provide a more pleasing fence across the front. There'll be a gate at each of the two entrances, a sliding electronic gate. And then as you enter the property, you'd arrive at what is initially a drop off area next to a water feature that Dawn's gonna talk a little bit about and then would circle around a parking. There is parking along the entry drive. We have the trees flank in the roadway on both sides. And to the left of that, it doesn't show in this drawing, but essentially the area to the left of that main drive is grass and would have a new pathway going through it to lead to the existing campus buildings to the south. So Chris and I maybe we could go to the elevations now and talk through those real quickly. So the buildings themselves, the existing buildings on campus to us, we're a little dated. They are stucco buildings, they're heavily roofed, they have large, well, extensive roof pitches. So the idea in this was to allow the campus to evolve to a more modern look. So the buildings themselves of the two structures, the CEDC building, what you're looking at now, the parapet lines at 20 feet high. And Warren, I know you're concerned about parapets, but I think we're proposing a TPO roof and I don't think we're gonna have any problems, but there would be skylights on the roof, there will be solar also in the project, both on the new building, this new building and on a couple of the existing buildings. It's an off white finish is the main color of the buildings with a medium gray Waynes coat around the bulk of them. Quite a bit of the buildings are surrounded by dog play areas. So those would be fenced in with a split face concrete block in a gray tone. And then depending upon which animals are in which location, there'd be windows of some sort and even a full glass wall on the bottom right elevation, I don't know if you can read that, but the entire area where the littlest puppies are is an all glass area. So it's a nice viewing area and it's great for the clients and guests that come to the property to be able to see the puppies. The only accent colors are two company colors, the Canine Companions company color. So the blue tone that appears very bright in this photo, probably a little brighter than it's gonna be in the real world. And then a yellow tone that would be on some steel awnings that are over the windows. There's a clay or concrete tile roof that extends out over most of the play areas. And the entrance elements would also have that clay tile roof, but other than that, there'd be no roofing exposed and the parapets would cover all the mechanical equipment up on the roof areas. So, Don, maybe you can talk a little bit, we can go back to the landscape plan if you want and talk a little bit through the landscaping. I would be happy to though. I have to say, Ken, you did a perfectly fine job. There's not a lot to be said. Can we go back to that plan, please? So this space between the two buildings is actually a really pretty nice space. This facility, this campus gets a lot of guests, it gets a lot of residents, it gets a lot of people coming and going. So the thought was to make as nice as almost a semi-urban space as we could possibly get. And so, there's a lot of paving there, but it's also gonna be a very active area. If there's any sort of events going on or fundraiser or things like that, then this space would be used for that purpose. It all started really with the length kind of going back to the campus. And that's why we decided to make that sort of entry node. And it's kind of a formal drop-off point, but the day-to-day user probably wouldn't come in that way necessarily, but the visitor would. We've provided a lot of wheelchair access, or excuse me, handicapped parking. Wheelchairs are prevalent here. So the idea was to create a space that people could take dogs on walks around the campus. So you see a lot of pathways in a lot of areas, as well as some lawn areas. And as Ken said, it doesn't show, but across the street is a very big dog park, which is all lawn. The little blue keyhole object is a fountain. And it's actually a fairly simple fountain, basically a circle with overflowing into a trough. And the trough would extend down into the plaza a little bit. So it would be providing sort of an entry feature to the node, but also provide a little interest in noise accent, white noise as it is for the people who are working here. But the cool thing about this is this is gonna be the, ideally it will be the art component of this project. And the idea is to have this long trough and even the main portion of the fountain filled with puppies, bronze puppies as it were. So utilizing that, we could do some creative things with fountains and make it as if these bronze puppies are splashing water. And I think it would be very lively and very dynamic in its own way. But it would also be just a really nice thing to look at, I think. I don't think we have any visuals on that handy, but it's looking pretty cool actually. So anyways, that would be the entry feature as you walk in. We've got trees in here. We're putting them in tree wells with tree grates. And the idea is to provide some shade, but also kind of leave the space open so we could do things in the space. So trees are already around the perimeter. On this particular plan, really nothing's particularly called out in terms of what trees we're using. We're just looking at ideally big broad trees that would give us shade over the driveway and shade in the parking lot. And we've worked pretty hard getting the orchard style parking. One of the cool things about this is there's a setback, creek setback along the parking area that would be more or less open space. So I was, in my world, I was thinking that would be Quercus Lovato just to be able to put some of these oaks back into the environment for the long-term. I think that's probably all I really have to say at this point. I do, if you have any questions, I am here. So feel free. So Mr. Kincaid, that concludes our presentation for this evening and we're all here to answer questions. So, and again, the civil engineers are here and Paige is still online if there's any questions about the operation. So thank you. Fantastic. Well, thank you to Paige, Ken and Dawn. Great presentation, very thorough. Good concept package for us to sink our teeth into. So looking forward to hearing the board comments. Before we jump into board comments, it's not prescribed for a concept design review, but we oftentimes and will tonight open up for public comment just so public can make comments early on in a project and add whatever thoughts they might have. So with that, at this time, I will open up for public comment on item 8.3. At this time, we don't see any raised hands. Great, we'll give it a minute or so and then we'll move forward. Okay, it appears we don't, we may not have any members of the public watching. Right, Mr. Chair? Some reason that doesn't surprise me at 8.30 at night. So we'll go ahead and close the public comment period and bring it back to the board. And we can keep it casual again. I think everyone's familiar with our process here that's on the call, but very casual back and forth as fine questions, comments, and we'll give the applicant some our thoughts on how to move this forward. So with that, I will start with board member Sharon. Okay, thank you. And yes, I take that the lack of the public attending right now with lots of comments as a sense of compliment and trust in the service that you guys do and are adding to our community. Nobody is having strong criticisms. But seriously, this is great. You brought a very good package and thank you for all of your work and for having this facility and program here. Definitely, you guys are a great organization, so thank you. And glad to see that this is moving forward with building up the rest of the campus and really adding some really beautiful and useful pieces to your campus. And that's primarily where my comments come from actually that the balance between the beauty and the utility because the buildings, I think for the, I like it very, they are very utilitarian. You are, they're there for a purpose and the purpose is clinical and so it's, I think having the utility of the building be the most important component is very well expressed. I think that by talking about having the accents of the organization's colors and little nods here and there with some of the detailing are great, but the building needs to serve your purposes. And so I think that as far as I can see does that well. What I think it is some of the most important things of what you're thinking about and what you're proposing is where are those utilitarian buildings rest and how you can, you're creating utility in this sense of community and purpose that's there. And I think that you guys have been thinking a lot of how this can fit into your site and I think, yeah, the landscape, the plazas and where you're situating things are really great. Definitely I think Don has done a great job with incorporating that sense of, this is the outdoor space, the living room. They have that personal expression of the clinical side of things that you have there. You guys have a big purpose with what you're doing, but then the mission is for people as well. And so you're providing space for your animals, but also providing space for the people and patients. And I'm not certain how you term them, but the people that you become owners and users of these dogs, and so with your campus, I think when I first opened this up, I could immediately see what some of the purposes that you were trying to do. And Don, when you talked about having these open plazas where you've got gathering spots and the art that's there, I could envision, you know, graduation ceremonies and, you know, you know, walking the dogs of taking these puppies out. And, you know, there's in this, you know, this eastern lawn area that's more like where the dogs are running and learning how to interact. And they're also interacting with their humans. And then in the western side there that you've got new patients and people that are coming to meet their dogs for the first time and they're waiting with their families and they're going in. And so it's a, I think you guys have done a very good job with having that utility and creating this sense of community and expressing your purpose through your design. So kudos to that. And I think in reading your description of your project as well, that you're also trying to tie it into your existing site as well. This is not going to be, kind of standing on its own, even though what we're looking at is very discreet. It's part of this overall campus. So I think if you continue to think about that and tying it all in together is going to add to your full campus. And yeah, I can see that that's happening with, you know, the framing of entrances, the framing of the crosswalk, the race crosswalk between the dog park and the main plaza. With the trees that are around that area and the situation of the fountain, I think does a very good job with. You're creating these through points. You're creating thresholds. And so I would just continue with that. Really make these, these, these very important utilitarian buildings being nestled in their, their overall campus. That's going to wrap up my comments for now. Thank you. Thank you. Board member Sharon. Board member. I like the site plan. I think you guys have really worked that out. I think. The architects are pretty. Land. I think you could punch it up a notch. And I'm not sure how you could do it. Maybe it's different materials. Maybe it's. Different detailing. But I wouldn't change the mass saying or the size or anything like that. I just think you can. Skin the facades in a different way. I think. All four sides are being addressed on both buildings, which is nice. But. I just, I just think that there may be. You can explore something a little bit different than just stucco and CMU. I know they're utilitarian, but. Buildings without, you know, there's, you could. There could be something really kind of tactile and fun with some additional materials or different materials. That are timeless. Fancy stone. Fancy stone. Fancy stone. Fancy stone. Fancy stone. Fancy stone. Fancy stone. Fancy stone. Yeah, I don't know what it is. Ken's a good architect and he can figure that out, but I think you can try something different. And other than that. I'm excited to see it come back to us and approve and we'll approve it. And then you guys will be on your way. Thanks. Thanks board member way old board member, Gordon rock. Sure. Great. Thank you. Yeah, I would agree with the comments about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you brought up just to kind of re echo those. And let's see. Yeah. So I think too, with the like central Plaza. Central Plaza space. I kind of, I kind of saw the, the buildings as something that are fairly, are fairly harsh. And I think it's, I think it's, it's, it's, it's, it has to be while there's graduations and things like that. Does it have to be completely kind of a hard escape? And I really, I really like this idea of fountain and where you're going with it. It reminds me of, there's a park in Toronto by Claude Cormier. Quote, Birksea Park. And it's, they did these amazing. Basically, they're like 3d, 3d printed in matte dogs. When I pull out. A war in here. But yeah. So they basically like at the top of this fountain, they put a dog bone and then they've got like these cat follies. Kind of throughout the, throughout the project. And if I could get to another photo. Anyway, it's pretty cool because they incorporated these, these dogs as, as follies. And so I'm really encouraged by your directions. you know your direction uh for the fountain it's kind of it's kind of funny uh Claude's uh a really funny uh guy and funny designer but um it kind of got me thinking too about like things to I mean what did dogs love to do they kind of they you know they love to play and run and urinate on things kind of mark their territory so are there are there kind of you know follies are fun things that that can be incorporated to kind of give them again like a um a little bit of you know more uh you know excitement and pleasure and things like that as they uh you know kind of embark on their their journey around the campus um and so I was thinking um you know if there's you know there's like uh you know not real fire hydrants but maybe that would be an issue with the fire department as they go to the wrong fire hydrant um but you know fire hydrants around that you know dogs could kind of mark their their their spot on um anyway uh I'll stop with that um and I think that's I think that's it everyone's kind of said uh what else you know other other other thoughts that I had so um looking forward to seeing it again and um yeah thank you thank you board member cordon rock board member wicks thank you chairman kinkade um question for the applicant uh mr lafranke um type of construction you're going after is this wood frame or is it tilt up I thought it was tilt up and then I got a looking at the amount of jogs and I'm thinking maybe it's wood frame yeah we ended up good deciding on wood frame or we're leaning in that direction um we've gone through the fire first round of fire we looked at pre-engineered metal and just too many jogs like he said and even tilt up the short walls would have worked but um number of ins and outs it just didn't uh didn't seem to make sense okay um I appreciate you um a little bit too uh board member sherns comment about because they have their self-freedom option but even everything that's in there wasn't everything that works and Mike Mike you're unmuted and that burrito didn't have the things you ordered so I'm like and it should have been a bowl with Mike Mike this is bill rose your your microphone is unmuted if you could please sorry about that and I want a burrito or a bowl I don't care which one yeah sign me up too yeah you made me made me hungry now now I've lost my train of thought I just want to go eat so um uh I was I was talking about the uh I think you I think you were trying to bring some of the material of the existing building over to from the existing part of the campus to the dude by putting the tile roof on um and but it's it's gray in color in this fiction again is that is that to reference materials in the in the campus and bring them over here or is it exactly there was a nod to the existing buildings by keeping the stucco which is going to work really well with the animals as is anyway in the you know the block is really a maintenance issue that has to occur there's a lot of wash down that occurs in the 10 areas um we just finished a um animal rescue shelter in Sonoma for um a non-profit and I love the opening comment from um age uh about the aesthetics being important on the outside but but built like a prison on the inside and we've got more epoxy and frp panels and I get I I'm okay I'm okay with the material selection you've got but I I I did a little bit to Drew's point I think you could punch it up and I I'm going to go as far as to say you could you could this building is so different than the campus I mean there's the it's really old school 1990s uh lower you know eight or nine foot plate height and then this huge roof that goes on forever that's almost one third wall and two-thirds roof and this building is so different I I think it's okay to go ahead and and the park from that and I and I might suggest you look at um doing metal roofing instead of the tile and doing it in a color I actually like your corporate colors and um I think it I think it could you could do a blue roof and and and do yellow gutters on it I I this my note says the seat a little bit more more more the yellow to help with the punch but I I think overall it could be fun and add some color I I think people get excited when when they come and seek seek color in a building and a facility such as yours I think it's I think it's fine to play out the corporate color okay well great and you know great comments because the metal roof came up recently and is there was some concern that we weren't given enough I don't want to say homage but to the existing buildings with the clay roof but metal would work great especially with the dogs there's some you know wash down issues with that too but um take that comment to heart for sure yeah I and again I'll just say I appreciate you're trying to integrate but I I think that the the night the rest of the campus is probably and due for a refresh it itself so maybe the maybe the camp the existing campus can play off them off the refresher going here and progress into the future with with remodeling those buildings the future love love the site design it's a great spot out there it's real peaceful I I I get lazy and and go on google most of the time to look at my sites but today was so beautiful I I drove to all three sites that coincidentally all happened to be in the south southwest quarter of the city of Santa Rosa but you got a beautiful site out there it's it's a it's a gym at the at the end of a road that may go through someday in the future but I I look forward to seeing seeing this at the next round and and would start a little bit let's see it just uh just get punched up a little bit don't be afraid about bringing us back metal roof and and just skipping what's what's at the existing facility and and adding more colors to it okay thank you thank you board member wicks vice chair hedgepeth you're up thank you uh chair concave well can't it's a wonderful project um you may be familiar when they when they leased across the way I did that building seven years ago and was familiar with working years ago and it's it's a wonderful organization with diabetes on the rise people getting blind a 400 dog backup it's it's a bustling place and in kind of a strange way it's um all of the the functions of the outdoors of getting people used to their dog and trying to pair dogs um it's a very personal unforgettable experience none of us can experience what it's like to be blind but to go to this place and to touch one of those animals and to go out and test drive them in the sun and get acquainted it's it's a massive memory making building and um what I love about you tying in with dawn it's a it's a very kind thing he's very much familiar with the shade trees the layers and I have this this comment you know everyone's okay with the corporate blue and you talked about an off-white with with the CMU I'm thinking of colors for a minute I want to embrace your off-white because that's a pure wonderful thing and please don't pigeonhole me I don't I don't hate parapets at all I just want to I would want to see that whatever happens in buildings their strength and what they're trying to communicate um that there's just enough heart and drive and I think I think you've been well executing the layering if you step up this building from grade to roof it's got a lot of nice things going you could use kind of a hot deep earthy toasted mustard at the CMU level you can I'm going to show you a picture since I'll pull a block here a minute but this um this here this is actually a house but if you look at this carefully this is off-white you see how there's a step and a planter in front that that layering right now I've believed on you've got plants at grade and then the CMU wall that if you think for a minute about this isn't hot mustard it's wood but imagine that all this white massive building has this whole other step layer and that that deep kind of burnt mustard at the base of all your CMU that want that color maybe the planters are kind of raised maybe it's CMU that's that's iced over it's maybe some of the fears in the room or that CMU block you can seal it you can paint it but if you if you slather over it with with a plaster it has this kind of a warmth to it and just maybe if you stepped up the planters 18 inches two feet so you could sit on them I know the hosing down happens a lot inside because you're you're breeding center at least across the way it's a very messy thing inside they'll pull out all that stuff it's portable and put it in new buildings but in a nutshell I don't mind the parapets of the roof I don't mind metal roofing when tenderly said when adrew mentioned you know stepping it up the one element over your main entrance it's kind of a it's a parapet it's element that has a peak to it which is kind of farm like I know you did a nice job at the fairgrounds with a with a barn that has that if it went a little contemporary and those were kind of cheeks square cheeks because you're you've got a a strong almost kind of a roman thing going where these these elements pull away from the barn like roof and they're they're parapet like they're they're a mass it's almost like they're poured concrete they're going to be wood frame but my comment is sure that they can stay gabled whether they want to be cubed that's that's not my call but there are some wonderful things where you do this handshake with dawn and he gets to maybe raise some plants and planters you have this layering of plaster ultimately it turns off white that maybe there's a whole another color that's really deep really um edible burnt mustard and all these cool plants dawn comes up with um dance with that I love um chairman cordonbrock's comment about the dogs I think there are dogs in the world that you and your client have seen that are hero dogs we see all these movies about the real dog that brought the vaccine from Canada that was unsung for 100 years maybe you've seen the movie so all this love dogs I've got my own dog he said he's an adopted dog window heights are low enough that a dog can put its head up on the window but as for the bronze dogs you may have champion dogs that have saved someone from getting squashed in an intersection I don't know those those are fun stories so stories of real dogs that have left that have saved lives I think it's a tour de force the entry and it's a tour de force coming in and being with that I guess a lot of us on the board feel like when you swing around the whole building dance up the plants maybe in some cases I know it's not super maintenance but the use of teak or wood out there here and there who knows but I've said enough um wonderful wonderful way to reach out and it's going to be a great project and you're off to a great start Ken. Thank you Vice Chair Hedgebeth um I'll make my comments it'll be pretty brief um I did on the um early development center building I I do agree there could be more splashes of color particularly the yellow um there was there's far more on the veterinary building and and I think it does a lot to kind of brighten up the building and carry you around in in a visual of it rather than kind of getting stuck with some um you know more mundane um long expanses um I'm in agreement with doing something else with the uh you know monitor element at your entry one of the ideas that I was kicking around is maybe instead of just having to be an element maybe you carry it all the way back um add some glazing up in the monitor and and open up the ceiling at the entry and it just pours light down and invites people in to that area um overall you know I think that the resounding comments um is that you know you start out with a great design team and a passionate group of people doing fantastic work in the area and the country and and you can't help but uh come to a project that's going to be highly successful um so I I don't really have a whole lot of comments other than I like the metal roof idea um I like a little bit more deviation away from the existing facility because we are in in 2021 not 1990 um and I think that's okay to have a campus that has um some you know um uh whatever you want to call it you know back to the future um you know I think you see it in college campuses you see it in other areas where you know things were built a long time ago and then there's additions and expansions and the buildings take on their own life forms um so um agreed that the the landscape is is you know shaping up and and the the spaces and the context in which people are going to use the spaces um very well defined um so with that I think I'll circle back through uh any further board member comments and then let the design team uh ask any questions that they might have um so board members any any departing comments for this design team I wanted to say that that's really well said Scott about the entry the idea that it it's collective integrated it's something you go into like this almost celestial chamber that it is foresighted and that it has shafts of life coming in so you're in this place where the the people that certainly are guiding the blind they they have light from above but the idea that it's foresighted doesn't have to be a gable um that's that's pretty much what I was showing in that that image um it can all be wood frame it can be plaster but maybe sand floated and lower layers having deep colors and uh kicking out and taking risks and enjoying it I've got just another comment absolutely sure um yeah in in hearing my fellow board members speak it just got me thinking um and you know I looked into into Brett's example of the Cormier Claude Cormier Toronto park and and hearing Warren talk about the color and and I think that um one of the things that that that that I would love to see when you guys come back is um to have this campus and this is a campus in the the best experience like sense of the word um this is really like a like a very much nurturing spot um I would love to see this campus be you know an embodiment and an expression of the the unique nature of your nonprofit of your organization um you said this is your your your headquarters um have like really bring in a lot of the the the expression of what you are and what you do I know this isn't open to the to the public but it's open to to your your um your users your patients um and and your staff members as well and so um be bold with it um bold with color um take a look at this this this park that that uh that Brett talked about um Claude Cormier and bring in some winsy bring in some of the the the expression of of the canines that are actually in this have them be part of this as well um and so yeah I think that you you guys have a really good start and when it comes back let's see some some bold architecture and bold expressions of this of your organization you guys are great so um have a great campus so thank you thanks board member Sharon any other final comments um does the applicant team have any questions or like anybody to expand on any comments that you've heard this evening don any comment or any questions on your end no I don't think so everything was really clear thank you very much so I just want to thank the board I mean that that was a very clear set of comments responses it gave us some really good direction we had when I originally designed that entryway it was an element that went all the way to the back of the building and had clear story windows in it and we took it out for cost reasons but based on your comments I think we're just gonna have to drum up a few more dollars and put it back in as the is the way that I go again I appreciate the input and thank you for your time can I say one thing Ken I know you're gonna mute me a minute you're the boss you can say anything you want um so I really appreciate um all the feedback our our head of health and research and our head of marketing are both on the phone and our head of marketing has been sending me text clapping every time you talk about color um so we can absolutely take all that and I appreciate it um trust me if I could redo the entire campus right now I would it's a it's a it's a problem of dollars um but as Ken said it's great feedback and um just so you all know um I loved we loved the fountain you showed us and the idea of this fountain is to show puppies playing in bronze and to actually show the joy of the dogs because one of the things we did get a little criticized for questioned on is our dogs working so hard they never have fun and they don't get to beat dogs so we actually wanted to show the love and the joy and it would be a community place for people could come and gather so that is part of the concept I just wanted to say that that's fantastic to hear page I appreciate you adding that comment and I think everybody wants to leave this meeting smiling this is a this is a good one to close it out on so Ken you got anything else no I really appreciate your time and this good input and we're looking forward to stepping it up and having a little more fun with it and we'll be back excellent well enjoy your time uh circling back with the group and uh again it's off to a fantastic start so um wish you luck great thanks very much thanks have a nice evening okay let's see let's go back to our agenda so I uh at the beginning of the meeting kick the board member reports down to the bottom because we do have a couple of items to share one is we had a recent appointment to the board so on our February 18th meeting the intent is that a new board member will join us and for some of us the new board member will be rejoining us so Michael Birch with Scott AG their architectural graphics firm specializing in signage and wayfinding here in Santa Rosa doing work throughout the Bay Area and many other cities across the United States so um he was on the board for a few years he's been off for a couple years and uh I'm happy to have him back on uh Bill did you want to make any further comments in that regard uh just uh yet reiterate what you're saying Scott uh Michael Birch is coming back former chairman of the board actually um so looking very forward to that he's a he's a good friend of the board and a good friend of Santa Rosa so um we do still have an outstanding appointment left uh my understanding is that councilman uh Alvarez still has an appointment so as soon as we have information on that we'll be able to to let the board know what the news is and then uh I can't recall if we mentioned it last time or not if it was news then but uh board member Weigl has been reappointed so he will be continuing his work with us so just want to give you those updates as well excellent thanks Bill and one final comment that those of you who do not know or haven't heard is that I uh tendered my resignation from the board in December with the intent to carry out my service until replaced which I will continue to do um and um doesn't have anything to do with anything other than uh been in service for eight years and uh it's time to do something else um so um I'll I'll see you again not leaving um maybe anytime soon or maybe I will I don't know but in any event uh you know when when this COVID thing all wraps up uh you know there's breaking bread and uh having of beverage together um without a doubt um it's been a pleasure to serve with you guys uh and many other folks that I've served with in the eight years and staff's been absolutely fantastic and the whole the whole experience has been great and uh the only reason I held on for an extra four years was because of Warren it's hard to it's hard to beat his level of service and and so I had to do a Yeoman's effort to get you know pretty far along anyways I just have a hole in my head and I'm gonna have a hole in my heart when you leave thanks Warren yeah Scott just a jump in quickly I mentioned I might have some things to to put you back on here I'll just kind of fold in some department reports and it really is to to the point I think you were talking about is once we get the uh the new members in which as I think you all know members once you're appointed you serve till you're replaced and and so I think that's what Scott's doing been doing um once we get the new members in we have a full board I think what we will do is we'll do our best to get a nice event together so we can welcome the new members and certainly say goodbye to to uh Scott um as he moves along and so look forward to that in the future uh and I just uh I know I'll get another chance to say it and uh as will everyone else but Scott I really wanted to say thank you you've uh been an outstanding board member and outstanding chair you've made this process so much better for for all of the staff I think for all the applicants and I I would venture to guess for all the board members here too really going to be big big shoes to fill here and uh and we're gonna miss you uh sincerely so thank you for everything I appreciate it Bill thank you for the kind words it's been a pleasure okay well it's uh going on nine o'clock so with that appreciate your time energy and effort and uh we'll see you at the next meeting uh and we are adjourned thanks everyone see y'all good night everyone see you in two weeks never forgotten never forgotten sky