 Nigerian officials blamed the terror attack on Saint Francis Catholic Church in our war, Ondo State, on the Islamic state of West Africa province, Iswab, while avoiding references to networks of politically powerful herdsmen, Knoxville News Center, reported. Now according to a senior fellow at the Religious Freedom Institute in Washington DC, Stephen Rush, Nigerian Christians have no longer any form of trust in their own government or leaders of the United States and the European Union. On the Awama Saka, Rush said, murders are taking place weekly almost daily in Nigeria, murders of innocent Christians being gunned down, slaughtered and discriminately throughout the north and increasingly into the central part of Nigeria and into the south. We're joining us to discuss this as former director of the state security services, Mr. Mike Ageofor. It's good to have you join us sir. This report obviously is coming on the heels of the Awama Saka and of course the refusal by security agents to allow the or to disclose the persons who were behind or the suspects that were behind the murders but let me let's backtrack a little bit just looking at this report especially the fact that someone from outside the country is now speaking not just about our government but governments of the United States and Nigeria. Is there any truth to the fact that the people no longer trust government even security agencies ask for information on how this fight against terrorism is going? I don't think even though people might have some misgivings in government for you to say you don't trust government anymore. I don't think it's a right statement to make. People must have trust in government and their colleagues have a specific policy. Like you said if you, I think it was too quick for some government officials but again we should be thinking of who read the last statement correction. Did it come from the military or from the police? Is it a lot of people make statement to that investigation? It would have been proper if government security agencies were allowed to carry out their function before making that statement from government. But the ID SWAP was responsible for the bombing. It was too quick for me because we had to get to the root of the problem before that came over. This is not the first time that we have had conflicting information in terms of terrorism. We remember what happened under the good luck Jonathan government. We had issues with numbers. The media would report this number and then the army would come and counter it. And so it also begs the question where do we get our information from? Because one thing is sure you're saying we still need a level of trust for our governments to be able to help us to deal with these issues. But then when there are too many conflicting statements and there's uncertainty dangling in the horizons, also coupled with the fact that people still get killed and there's not necessarily a follow-through for us to get the right kind of information, especially us, the media. What do we do? As a responsible media, you have to prosecute your information, otherwise the news, your credibility, and everything. So it's very important that you prosecute the information. Like I said earlier, the media comes from the defense, the spokesperson, the media comes from the SSF or from the police. A politician cannot just come and issue a statement on what to do with our mouth. So I think our security of media should rely on the source of the information because the first woman that may have no authority to make that statement, even like you said, doing the good jobs in a time era. You see people, the minister of information will make what I'm surprised, it's not even talking anymore. The minister of information will make a statement, the police will make a statement. They are supposed to have a coordinated approach to issue a statement. Now you see the issue of our massacre, they are not talking, you see, they have a right to say the truth behind. In this case, they are not aware. So there won't be coordination, there won't be synergy between all the secret agencies that are coming out to make this statement. I'm going to go back to that. There are victims in these cases. People who have survived are also there. The families of these victims are also there in the fringes, waiting for something that they can hold on to. The villagers have also taken some, you know, laws into their hands, permit me to use that word loosely, by invoking a curse from the gods. Amateko is also trying to be seen to be doing their jobs. The force headquarters has said that they haven't gotten any suspect in their custody. And then you have said that we need to allow for some form of investigation to continue for us to get the right kind of information. That synergy may not necessarily be our place. We're supposed to see this synergy work. For example, I'll paint a picture. There was a train incident recently in New York, if not two months ago. We saw the mayor of New York. We saw the governor of New York. We saw the chief of police in New York. Every single person that held an office was there at that press conference. And they had one press conference giving the same information. And at the end of the day, they tell us, we're looking into the matter. We'll follow up. And this somewhat gave the people hope, something to hold on to. But in Nigeria, the case is different. And sometimes as media people, you have to keep pushing the police or even the army security agencies to get information. There's another school of thought who says, well, go and do your own investigative analysis and get information. But then here we wait for the police. So if the police is not giving us information and then we cannot go and get information, also as investigators, where does this leave the people and our fight against terrorism? You see, like I said, the one with convention, you remember that during the global time era, there was this issue of the National Information Center, where we had the representative of all the security agencies and stakeholders coming to issue a statement, especially on national matters of great importance, like our incident. That's attracted global attention. So I stated that, coming to the next statement, he must come from government to at least give people their assurance. What is happening now is that people don't have confidence in government, like it's everywhere in the country, and people may not have confidence in government. They want to speak. Like the government of the state has shown that they are going to go after the people. In the Amoteco Forest that came up with the issue that some of them had an arrest. I must say that they lost since the Amoteco came out with the arrest. They didn't have the mobile, the police. The police are not aware of such an arrest. So for this gap, for new gaps, more between, you know, to not only help the press in reporting, but also to give confidence in government and see how we can in future, prevent this from happening. So it's very, very important to keep that sort of information should be put in the public domain. Let's move away from the communication part of it. Let's look at the pockets of violence that's been happening. Aside from our war, we've also seen that suspected herdsmen killed people in Enugu, two people in Enugu. We also saw that there were two people who were killed and 22 were kidnapped in Abuja and they were demanding for 12 million Naira. And these cases continue to spread. And it's no longer something that you say, oh, it's happening in the north. It's happening everywhere now. Does this mean that we are not necessarily finding our food in fighting terrorism? Again, how can we say that between 2015 and now, we've been able to, according to the information minister, systematically deal with Boko Haram, deal with terrorism and stem it down to its barest minimum. He said we technically have defeated Boko Haram. And of course, other forms of terrorism. But have we, with all of what's happening, we know that when it's close to election, you know, campaign season, we see more and more of these attacks. But how can we say that government has really been able to deal with this issue? Actually, the situation is worrisome. There's no day you work up, you really need to find work that is strong to hear of a series of attacks that are not true, did not pay, did to pay or something. It's worrisome. And I think people also have to, you know, be alert, be cautious. Some of these incidents would have unknowingly been prevented if we are conscious of environment and what we are moving. People are driving. They are not looking back. They are not even checking the roads. We will get to bad spots. What do you do? So we cannot make everything to government. Even though it's a social contract, we have surrendered our secret, our full security to the government. And government, the primary purpose of government is to refer to the secretion of the people. So we, if we begin to take love into our hands, to see we are going to protect ourselves like some of the government, some of the people, for instance, have suggested that which we are themselves, that we need to have an action. And what I am suggesting is that people must cooperate with government to ensure that the environment is safe by looking at in case of travels or you are home, because it has even come to the extent that they go to homes now looking at people. So when you are in your home and you are kidnapped, what do you do? It becomes a problem. It's a major security challenge that we are facing. And without some distance in this topic, I think we are going to have more of it at campaigns and elections that are coming up. Because definitely some of these politicians are also arming the youths. And the youths on their own path should be able to say no to this. If you don't need to be a talk of following you, get your children, let them be, we need public enlightenment to at least dissuade this youth from being used by politicians. It's very important. Why do you think that this war against terrorism, the messaging, not just about lip service now, the messaging, whether it be on the media, wherever it is, why do you think that it's not front and center of even the campaign or these politicians? Why is our government not prioritizing it? I know some people will say, well, the government has done its best, but is that best good enough? Why is it not front and center? Like you have just also said it might be heightened just as the campaign season begins. And you have also said that people are being armed. I'd like to take your mind back to 2014, 2015, 2016, even down to 2021. We've seen many guns, ammunition, make their way sometimes as far as into the middle of the city before they're even caught. And those are the ones that we catch and take delivery of. But there are so many others that we have not still heard the last of it. We hear about the sensationalism part of it. The government, the security agencies say we're going to investigate where it came from, what ports it emanated from, and then it dies down. But then we're seeing more and more guns within the country. So we're looking at borders here. Why are these borders still porous? People have campaigned on these porous borders and they're still the same way. Why are we still dealing with the issue of politicians arming people? I remember a certain governor in the southern state, guns were found in government house. That matter somewhat has been swept under the carpet. How long can we go on like this if we really want to deal with the issue of terrorism? And we're getting ready for an election. Again, we the people, why are we not pushing for this to be front and center? Using the wrong approaches to solve this problem. I've said this in terms of time number. We have something like a voting record. The police, for instance, is to set a life for control. We need regional countries, security countries, or put differently, the state police. This is the only way we can go because these people know the environment. If you bring somebody who does not know the environment to be operating in that environment, why you don't have confidence of the people to go on their information. The cultural differences, cultural deficit, and all the lies. But we need to look up police or the state police. You can see how attractive in all those states these are more taken as they, until this attack, you know, a war, Catholic church. I think the situation was really, relatively calm in all those states because the operatives of Amotepu are in the midst of that place. They can enter the forest, they can, but we strain that in the federal police. So we are afraid to go into the bush. They would not like to go. I mean, we have a lot of advantages in the creation of state police. Well, you know, it has to, the intervention of the National Assembly for the state police is greater. But again, you see, people will tell you that there is a disadvantage that the state governments will abuse it. And they have, even as we are now, the federal police. Is it not being abused? If you, if you, if somebody, go and enforce your, your fundamental rights. So with the advantages of the state police, it's far, far at waste. There are disadvantages. So we need to look into the creation of state police, especially now that we're going to election. That's the only way we can move forward in this country. This, I mean, whether it be this government is already on its way out, even though it massively campaigned on the heels of making sure that they fight terrorism, which we haven't seen them do. But will there ever be the willpower to deal with this decisively? And like I mentioned, starting with where these guns are coming from, do we see that willpower anytime soon from any leader? And let's not forget the people who are campaigning for these leaders come from these areas also that have been experiencing some form of insecurity or the other. So again, well, is there the willpower on the side of government? And are we the people making them serious enough to take up that job of making sure that we are secure because it is their mandate to make sure that we are protected? You see, the, the flow of illegal arms in Nigeria is massive. And this as a result of our police borders. And we cannot continue to cry over speaking. We also need to liberalize carrying of firearms because they don't, over 500 million in West Africa, sub-region, plus 70% of them are in Nigeria. And you begin to wonder how, and that's free access to arms, especially from the local around the east side. There's so much and that they freely, they don't have rules of engagement. And that makes it very difficult for our military to also engage them because they have rules of engagement. These people operate anyhow, no rules of engagement, no, they don't have any rules guiding them. So they just operate, shoot at people. You can imagine, train attack, they have been visited several institutions and even military institutions, killing soldiers and others. They just want to make government or popular, undermine the people's government and confidence in government. And that's their aim, because I would cannot exactly say this is what they are looking for. It's quite different from what we have in the South, Southwest region where you have people demanded for republic of Nuduwa or the South, we have to ask them for the republic of Africa. We must need to come together to survey this country. The country belongs to all of us. Nobody is more Nigerian than any other. So we need to work together to make Nigeria great. Well, no better way to end the conversation. Micah Jaffa is the former director of the DSS and we appreciate your thoughts and thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. All right. Well, that says on the show tonight, but I leave you with some of the highlights of the show this week. I hope you enjoyed. We'll be back on Monday, 7 p.m. talking on the big political stories across the country and on the continent. I am Mary Anna Cohen. Have a good night. Should have that. It wasn't good enough to be able to be alive. That's point one. The second point is, for example, I've taken time to listen to my colleague, my brother that is talking on the other side. I don't know him. But for you to say that the comments that are being made is by political jobbers. That means that I'm a political that means that I'm a political jobber. It's unfortunate statement. I like to let you know just like he stated. If you compose a call a committee, 17 month panel to come up with a decision. And of course, as a member of the PDP, I'm aware that advice a presidential candidate cannot in last night take a decision. And that was why he proposed and submitted himself that choose me. Choose me a vice presidential candidate. And if at the end of the day, 14 out of 17, give the streets to say that which case you be. Even if you propose to take a contrary opinion. Prior to that particular time, what should we have done? You should, just like the governor said has stated, at least how this man in high esteem, single handedly, wicked, how this party from 2014 in terms of financial capacity in terms of look at what happened in the 2019 I have one committee convention that the current presidential candidate is just coming in coming from another party. Of course, we're not against that. But if you want to do something, you have to have equity. So everybody who is saying that and you know what makes this most embarrassing is when I think I was going to let the public statement, I wish that the other mega statement that he made, but he chose a cover on the benefit of the fact that he had looked and he had a presidential, a future presidential capacity or so the other two lack that ability is most unfortunate. It is something and whatever decision that whatever decision my government will take today, the rest are short. Number one will stand behind him, will stand by him and it is definitely going to affect the fortunes of PDP, if not in the north, at least in the south. Those who are saying that the man does one man make a forest, you will see examples of that area. You will see that of course at the moment that there is already cross-captain and whatsoever. Are you insinuating that Governor Wike may leave the party because he succinctly said to us and I remember that he was never going to leave the party, he would stand by his party. But this statement you just made has some patches on it that seems that like the governor is about to make a move of sorts. Do you have an information? My dear lady, I am not Governor Wike, but one thing that is a constant change. Governor Wike could have made a statement or said he's not going to move. But of course look at the escalating circumstances, look at the comment of the former Minister Governor. Of course no matter how much we try to build the house, even at a particular point in time you discover that you are not wanted in the particular fields. You've got to weigh the options and whatsoever. I know that my governor is very, I'm asked to think of and when he takes a decision, it's definitely going to be a right decision. So for now, he hasn't taken that decision for now, he hasn't said anything. But once eventually he does and in the event that he takes the decision to step out of the party, definitely you can be sure that as many of us that are within will definitely still stand by him. Another popular article is, it cannot win in Leshion Ilu. Okay. No matter how strong a general is, he will never want to lose any of his lieutenants. And lastly, so I will say continue to say that Aladji Atiku Abu Bakar should, as a matter of urgency, set up a high power delegation to go and have a serious discussion. Okay. Yes, sir. Why anybody in the leadership of PDB would want to grace on my president, Olusia Gouba Sudo with the honor he does not deserve. They will be committing political activity in the political society if they want to engage with Olusia Gouba Sudo on anything that we give, that we give him relevance, especially for the mistake that he has set up to do. They should just leave him on his own and let him do whatever he likes because at some point, at some point, the public will see him as a nuisance that is just there. But if they want to engage him, as they have made things to do, they will be the worst for him. There are those who would be very... Not so much that I love them, not so much that I remember of the party, but it would be a strategic PR era to engage Olusia Gouba Sudo in any form of embryo, especially on remarks and opinions that he has codified in his book. I wonder why they want to engage him in this ruffle of fire.