 Minister of Information and Culture Lai Muhammad blames the Nigerian media for the country's poor image in security. And former Minister of Aviation Femi Fani Kayode who said he wouldn't rather die than join the APC has joined the ruling party and he's not dead. Well this is Plus Politics and I am Mary Anna Corn. The Nigerian media has been accused of giving Nigeria a poor image, the Minister of Information and Culture Lai Muhammad made the accusation saying its efforts in fighting the security challenges in the country had been dismissively reported. He said to the unflattering portrayal of the country by the country's media he said that is the reason why Nigerians in diaspora, investors and the international community at large are wary of visiting the country. He went on to say that security agencies have also successfully tackled the security separatists in the south east and south west and the militants in the south south but unfortunately these efforts were not well reflected in the reportage of the security challenges that Nigeria faces. What's running us to discuss this is Dikwa Olaioku who is a journalist. My name is Dikwa Olaioku who is a broadcast journalist and a journalist and producer with West Africa Radio in Dakar. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. I feel like there should be a woman on this team but it's okay, I'm glad to talk to all the men. I'm going to start with you Mr. Dikwa because you seem to be the one who has been in this business longer than we all have been in. So of course let's examine what the minister has to say. We have the NBC, we have the Bonn, we have the Writers Association, we have all of these bodies that are supposed to check and control what we put out every day as the media. But when the minister for information comes out with this kind of accusation, what does this, what image is he trying to paint of the Nigerian media? Yes, thank you very much. Before we go into that, there's something they call self-sacrifice. Before I had to state on that, we need to state from the beginning that the Nigerian media is an individual of the country's job. The country's position depends on what you go through every day. You will see that generally it's an entertainment business. Mr. Laiapul, we're having connection problems with you, so we're going to bring you back in a second. So just hold that thought. I'm just gonna have to throw the question to Ufama and Imor. Ufama, Mr. Alayakou saying that this is a thankless job. It's a job that you never really get a nod for, except you're an entertainer, for example. But if you're a broadcast journalist and you're a newsman, he's saying that first and foremost, it's a thankless job. But again, let's look at what the minister has to say about us. What picture is this painting of the Nigerian media? Marianne, I think I remember a couple of weeks ago when I was on the show, I made a pro-vab. I talked about how, you know, the Isoco man is well-known for his usage of cutlass. And so it's almost impossible. You don't carry cutlass in the back of an Isoco man. It's almost forbidden. That's because he knows how effective that cutlass actually is. And that's almost exactly what is happening here with Lai Mohammed. Before 2015, when the APC got into power, the media was the darling of the Minister of Information and Culture. He almost always, you know, has this love relationship with the media because, you know, his relationship with the media was to a large extent, what helped portray the previous government of the Lajanatan in a bad light. This is also not given excuses for the good Lajanatan administration. It was terribly was bad, you know. But of course, they did a lot of bad things. And so the present minister, who was the spokesperson of the opposition party at the time, used his connection with the media to, of course, portray all of these things. Well, they are now in power. He's been in power for six years. And unfortunately, things have gone from bad to worse. You know, say it is white when it is black. Unfortunately, to the Lajanatan, I understand what he's trying to say, you know, suggesting that maybe just maybe when the media is not portraying the good part, that we're always talking about the negative. But unfortunately, it's our job to say it the way it is. And you and I know in this business, add new cells. It's just the way it is. You can't run away from it. So as much as we also want to be patriotic, like he's saying, we also want to, you know, talk about some of the gallant FOSIs of our military. Well, we can't stop reporting that bandits have attacked or terrorists, I should say, because I'm not going to join that nonsense. You call them bandits. They're terrorists. They kill people. They kidnap people and all of that. We're not going to stop reporting the fact that they attacked the NDA. We're not going to stop reporting the fact that 30 soldiers, military officers were reportedly killed sometime in April. You know, we're not going to stop reporting all of that. It's just the way it is. I think we're having problems with the former's connection. But I think we have Mr. Lyoko back on the line. Mr. Lyoko, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Great. So we'll take it up from where you stopped. Go ahead. Yes. I said it's the two-way thing. That's why I started my statement. The general has the responsibility to protect national security. And I went further to say that because of the job that we do, we are an endangerment. Because if you can't do that, that's why we have the responsibility to give what it was before. And maybe that's why we have the idea of doing that. Especially if you believe in government. It is our duty to report news. We don't make news. But the point is why are we reporting news? You're ruining the possibility of a duty to also look at national security. I think today we're struggling with the connections, both on our phone lines. And I think the internet is also terrible. But let's toss to you more. Hopefully the internet in Senegal is better. Now, most speakers have pointed to the issue of... former has spoken about the fact that there might be something to what he's saying as to the sensational headlines, the fact that people want to buy more bad news. Because you know, if you say that a man bit a dog, bit a man, it's not necessarily news because dogs bite humans. But when the story says a man bit a dog, then that's news, obviously. And everybody wants to understand why a man would be crazy enough to bite a dog. And in this case, the Honourable Minister is saying that the press is picking and choosing or cherry picking in terms of what stories they want to highlight. And that we're not necessarily pushing the positives that the government has made in terms of winning the war, if there be any winning, against insecurity. Well, first of all, I think Ufama mentioned the Minister and his cohort enjoying the media when they were not in government. And I really see no reason why he would want to castigate the media in this time around, saying that they are painting Nigeria in a bad light. I mean, it's a 50-50 thing, whether you like it or not, give or take. They have been in power for over five years and they have all the way with all. They have every power to change whatever people had perceived about Nigeria in the past decades within this period of time. So I really don't make out anything from what he's saying that the media is painting the country in a bad light. Every media word over whether you like it or not. They state their headlines the way they are. I mean, if the terrorists kill or unsacred villages and cause mayhem in steering fear in people, the media will have to report that. I mean, going about to say that you should stop reporting insurgency attacks and all of that, it's just way beyond handcuffing the media. So I think, first of all, I blame the government if they know very well that the country is in a bad light outside the country. Yes, they have, it's on their table to ensure that they clean the mess and clean the picture, give a good picture to people outside. But isn't this a way of them trying to clean it because it's on their table and they feel that, well, the number one perpetrators or the number one people who seem to be painting this bad picture, it is the same media. It is the same media that will give them what they want. And so you cannot eat your cake and have it. It's the same media that will tell you, okay, Nigeria is doing well. The economy is booming and things are happening. It's the same media that will report that they've been attacking in the north, in the east, in the west, and all of that. So you can't really have it. Like I said, it's a 50-50 thing. Now, the impression about the image of Nigeria, yes, he's right. I mean, there's no way you will leave the shores of the country. The very moment you open your mouth to say, I mean, Nigeria, oh, Nigeria corruption. That's always the first thing. I need to take it well before that perception will be cleared and people still talk, say good things about Nigeria, not because they see it in the media. I mean, they, the politicians are the ones who go outside the country and display this as lens. So, I mean, would you say that people wouldn't say what they've seen? They would say it and then put it back in the media. So really, it's a 50-50 thing and it shouldn't put the blame on the media like he is doing. The media have a role to play and that's what they've been doing over time. We report what we see. We set the opinion, we let them know, look, this is how the people are feeling and if they don't like it that way, then that is their problem. I really don't agree with him and I totally, totally disagree. My colleagues here in Dakar, when we saw the news, they were laughing, why would he say that? Why would he say that? We see, look, we went ahead to see all the things he have written over the years when he was still the spokesperson for, he started before the, I mean, he's still there, if you check his blog. Lai Muhammad, he's still there. All the things he was the first to release a press statement at every event. Lai Muhammad released a statement at every event even when we're not supposed to cough. He will release a statement. So why is it now feeling bad that the media is reporting what we are seeing? I really don't buy that. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. Can you hear me clearly, Maria? Yes, we can hear you, yes. Yes, so here's the thing. It's one thing to run propaganda and be an opposition or, you know, it's another thing to be in power and hold the narrative. There are two different things entirely. You have to give it to Lai Muhammad. He was absolutely amazing. You know, I'm trying to look for more adjectives to actually describe how himself, you know, and of the opposition, you know, with, from general, the present president right now to the APC leader, Tinobu. You know, he was just spokesperson. He did an amazing job for the five or six years of there about that Good Luck Jonathan was president to always portray the Good Luck Jonathan presidency in a bad way. You know, so he was king. He was great at doing that. And for the love of God, Good Luck Jonathan and his presidents also gave them a lot of ammunitions from bomb blasts in Nyania happening and the next day they're in Kano dancing around and celebrating and all of that. There were lots of issues that happened that Lai Muhammad seized upon at that point in time. But like I said, it's one thing to run propaganda or it's one thing to point out ills and evil, you know, of one person. It's another thing to be on the saddle and also try to hold the narrative. Unfortunately, for six years, the president, the presidency, the minister of information, the spokespersons of the president, they have totally failed, you know, and I miss no words here. They have failed. How have they failed? When you say they've failed, in what regard have they failed? I think let me help me out a bit, you know, just a second. Femi-additional or Garibor Lawal are always on the defensive. They're always trying to, you know, things will happen instead of them to come out as quickly as possible, to hold the narrative or to give explanations. No, they won't. Two, three days later, when the things have blown out of proportion, they come out and they try to be on the defensive. They try to insult people. You see something is white. You want to tell us that it is gray. You insult our intelligence. See, Nigerians are not kids anymore. That's the honest truth. In fact, to a large extent, they don't even, to some extent, most of them don't even believe mainstream media anymore. That's because they also know that the government has, either directly or indirectly, tried to take hold of the media. So the problem here is that, for Lai Mohamed and the presidency, Spokesperson, all of them in that media department, they failed to translate from running propaganda or being the opposition to running government and holding the narrative. So that's why you see what we're seeing right now. Okay, I just want to go into some things that he said, which I want you, maybe I'm going to throw this to you more. He said, and I quote, if one picks up most newspapers, watches most television stations or listens to most radio stations in Nigeria today, he or she will be right to think that Nigeria is at war. Yes, he says we have challenges, especially in the area of security, but this administration has not only acknowledged these challenges, it is earnestly tackling the challenges. So I ask you, Imaan, because you're reporting mostly on these things from the outside. And of course, I'm guessing that when these things happen, they look to you as the Nigerian in the newsroom for more clarity. How well do you think that the government has, let's leave the issue of information management on the one hand. How well has the government dealt and managed the challenges of herders or unknown government or bandits or even the non-state actors that are creeping up every day? Well, first of all, that issue you mentioned is mostly what dominates our editorial meetings here. Sometimes we're just two Nigerians here and we used to feel the entire Dakar Senegal news is about Nigeria. There is no day you will not report an attack either in Keduna, in Baranui, in Sokoto. There is just no day an attack will come and once it happens, will you tell us not to report that? That is news for people who are not in Nigeria. Then we want to know, oh, why is there another attack in Nigeria and all of that? I think the government and the media handlers of the current administration are not being proactive. Like Ulfama mentioned, they should stop playing the blame game. As someone who is in the ruling party, you should be proactive. Before the Nigerians will think of anything, you drop it. They're like, oh, these people are working. Before anything will happen, you drop it. Sometimes it's to take days before the military will release a statement about an attack that happened on Monday or Tuesday or three days ago and then you hear different media reporting them, Reuters, APM and the rest of them, even also we're reporting it because of the correspondent we have there. I mean, that shouldn't be the case. It shouldn't be the case. I remember clearly, this same insecurity, like Ulfama mentioned, Lai Muhammad was always the first to report it. All the government are not doing this. The state of security is growing this and that. They were reporting it. So it's now they are torn to face the heat. So I wonder why they are seeing the media as those that are pushing the stories out to those in the world. If we sit in our home, even back there in Nigeria, we hear, we read stories and watch news of attacks in Sudan, Somalia, Mali, what kind of fossil and the rest of them. So what makes Nigeria different? What makes Nigeria different? Because you cannot have such an issue and then it's all reported. You don't report. I mean, it is crazy. The French colleagues will ask me, why is there a country like that? Why are they trying to stifle the media in Nigeria? I mean, there will be issues that ordinarily the Nigerian people should have been the first to report. But you get to see these stories on other international media. Why is that so? Because the government, they have uncuffed the media in that country. And that is what they have always had in mind when they come in. They knew the role the media played when they were in the opposing side. And they felt, look, if they continue with this, we will lose that completely. In fact, they have lost as it is because the remaining years, whether they like it or not, the perception that they have presented to Nigerians will last till this government leaves. I tell you, every Nigerian will come across here. They don't say good thing about the current administration. I'm not trying to paint them in a bad image, but that is always the perception we get. If you go to the Nigerian embassy in Dhaka here, it is still the same thing. People are complaining. Why is your government like that? Oh, Imo, you're from Nigeria. Why is Nigeria like that? Nigeria's a bit of a big border of Africa. The statement you made before now sounds more like this administration knew that they were not going to be able to deliver. Because when you say that... Because when you say that... I've been there six months to set up a cabinet. Well, because when you say that, this has always been their plan all along. It sounds more like they were only just selling us a whitewash of sorts. And you know that they were never going to be able to... You and I know that clearly. I mean, they never had anything on the agenda. I mean, go back to their manifesto and check. What was it that they wanted to give Nigerians? The only thing they campaigned on was corruption. To fight corruption, to deal with unemployment, and of course, to put an end to bad decay. Corruption was the main thing. Nigerians were tired of what was happening at the moment. And they felt, okay, we don't have any other choice. If this is the man you guys are presenting, let's take him and trust like Muhammad, like Ufa mentioned. He did a great job painting that man in a good image, painting those that will come in in a very good image. And Nigerians fell for it and we are suffering with that at the moment. So it will take a while. It will take a while before Nigerians will even accept whatever this administration will say. People will take them seriously because of those that are heading in different areas. I think we have Dikbar Layako back. Hopefully, this time we might be able to hear him. Mr. Layako, you're more of the print. We hear about screaming headlines, misleading openers on shows, sensationalism of certain stories. I mean, recently a particular TV station was put on the chopping board for analyzing something from a point of ignorance and making the media again look bad. And of course, we also know that bad new sales. So is this something that the media also needs to probably pause in his tracks to take a look at? Yes, we know that there's the politics to it and the angle from which the minister of information is coming from. But sincerely, is the media complicit to an extent in the way that in our reportage, generally? Yes, you can point that in this type of profile and you look at what is going to be the effect of my story on the society. There is an example that you are in people's in the school of the not too jealous or too reportable person compared to the brain. The other one said, the cops, how to? The other one said, the cops is happening. They are going to put in the same place or from different parties. And that should be the catchphrase of every report out there. Nigeria is going to be a very important person as a journalist, as a reporter. Am I through my life, balancing the tension or am I creating more tension? During the 9-11, that was what I had. I'm talking about that American is big, the bombing America. I was in the need thing. We were enjoying the story, the bombing out. About two weeks ago, a colleague drew attention to something. A colleague in the room said, do you notice something that says this is what has been coming up? That no American has ever shown the code of America. They pull out of the loop. That doesn't have to come from the school. Ah, it is true. But essentially, two months later, I went for a seminar and the reporter from, I said nothing was there. I took off this photo with them. And the same reporter told me that no American put out power. We showed that they are put out of the loop. They are put out from the loop. That is what the concept is. So, Mr. Mayaku, you're telling me that we seem to be, you're saying that we as the Nigerian media are selling ourselves short. We're showing more of our weaknesses than our strengths. Is that what you're saying? Because according to the story. No, that's what I said, it's my story. What is going to be the effect on the society? You see, because Nigerians, we just came out of a military regime. And then the regionalists, what is serve as fighting the military to resource the leaders and the protesters. But interestingly, many of us, we have not changed our decision. That is what maybe that particular issue, like Muhammad in the State, in your report chart, you look at what is going to be the effect of this non-reporting on society. That's what the country perceives of the regionalists. It's the first steps for this. No NPCs, we can't do it. No NPCs, they don't need NPCs. But you yourself, the function of the system, what will be the effect of my story, my headline on the society. I think that's what's going to happen. It's a different thing happening to the system. And we have one scholar who's going to call on everybody. I think that's what's going to happen. Okay. Ufama Imor, interestingly, Mr. Alayaku is bringing our attention to something, which I'm not sure if you hear, heard everything he said, but he was pointing to the fact that during the 9-11 attacks, no American fossil journalist or camera person showed images of Americans being taken out of the rubble throughout that time. And then he asked why this was, and they said, well, it's not their style. You're not supposed to show the weakness. You know, it's supposed to show that, you know, maybe because we show, I mean, all the things that happen, it makes us look weaker or that the bandits are having the upper hand. And I had a conversation with somebody, an activist some time ago, and he said the same thing that as much as we talk about and report these things, we also need to show that our army is working because it also reflects badly or poorly on them and their psychology. But again, these are their thoughts, not mine. So going forward, because we must be able to cover all grounds, so that every time these types of accusations come up, we would be able to say, well, on our end, we're good, we're straight, as compared to if we have loopholes. So I'm gonna start with you, Imor, going forward as the Nigerian media, and in reporting all of these things, not minding the politics that is around it, how do we make ourselves better? And like Caesar's wife, be above suspicion, I beg your pardon. For me, I think we have more issues on the negatives than the positives. Yes, we do have the good side of Nigeria, no doubt, but usually the positive must be able to overwhelm the negatives before you can now say the media is reporting the positives. Take for instance, if you stay in a country where basic things are working, there is steady power supply, there is park-borne water, there are good roads, I mean, you can walk about in the night without being harassed or the fear of being kidnapped, the economy is booming, the government are looking at the people and their social security for those who are unemployed, the pension system is working, there is plans for the elderly, or the aged citizens, I mean, the media won't really have time to look at all of this thing. When in case where these things are barely there and the only news you have is the state of insecurity, which is so alarming, you really can't help but to report it, you really can't help. Like I said, whoever is handling the media in the military, whatever arm it is, must be proactive. And that is the only way. I mean, before the news gets out, you're able to issue a statement. I know in Nigeria, it takes almost 72 hours or more before an official statement is issued in anything that happens. If they turn to being proactive, then I think people now start seeing, okay, the army said that you would not allow, I mean, you stop hearing a military source or an eyewitness said, because one, the army is able to come out to issue a statement, even before it is, yes, as a team. So, yes, I also agree with Uncle Depot. I quite agree with him, no doubt. And again, if you look at Nigerians, Nigerians are, they are fed up. And once they are fed up with whoever is leading or with the administration, the turn to what the media will offer, what is in the news, oh, okay, there's been an attack yet, there's been an attack there. I mean, until the positives and negatives, then we can now say, okay, there's been so much good thing coming out of Nigeria and before all of that will stop. Oh, for more quickly, because we're out of time. So, here's what I think. I honestly, as much as I agree with what Mr. Dikwas said, we're actually doing it. There are lots of stories we're not putting out. At least I know in my newsroom, there are lots of things that come and we look at it and we're like, okay, okay, let's put a pause on this for now. Let's not hit up the polity like we always say. So, to a large extent, if we reported all of the things that come to our newsrooms, I'm sure, I don't know if Lai Mohamed will probably be crying right now, because we're already doing a lot of that self-censorship. I also would not want to disagree with the fact that some of us also need to tell ourselves the truth. I see some very sensational headlines with little or nothing to back up some of those headlines. Yeah, it's a problem. You know, out of every 12 disciple that would always be the Judas, no doubt about it. I have my own issues with the section of our media, but from a general point of view, we are doing a lot of the censorship, but the government itself is, the government came to power on the back of promises about security, how they were going to take security serious which the previous government did not. But hey, it's gone from bad to worse. You're not going to tell me not to report that. Absolutely no way. You're not going to report it because it's happening. Well, I want to say thank you gentlemen. Unfortunately, time is not on our side. For my grandmother is the head of news with Nigeria Info FM here in Lagos. Emo Edet is of the Democratic Radio, okay, West Africa Democratic Radio Station in Senegal. I was thinking about something else. And then of course, we have Mr. Dikba Olayokuhu who is a veteran journalist joining us to be our telephone. Thank you very much gentlemen for being part of this conversation. Yeah, it's always a pleasure. All right. Thank you for having us. Thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a short break now. And when we return, we will discuss the defection of Femi Fani Kayadi to the ruling ABC even after he promised that he will never do it. Stay with us.