 So does everybody know what we're going to do? No. Great. Scott, you want to see? All right. Here's what's going to happen. We've gotten the scoot up. This is driving me crazy. I'll be squatting the whole time. So we got some videos together and we decided what we do is a live version of our show here. And so what we're going to do first is for the next 45, 50 minutes we'll do that. We haven't seen these videos yet. I caught them out. What usually happens is Greg goes, okay, here's what we're doing. Okay. And he'll find the times to cut out of the videos. If it's three hours long and he goes, go to one hour and 26 minutes and 10 seconds to this, to that. And then I'll cut those out and put them in a little pile. And then when I throw them on them, we all watch it run. So usually we have, we can at least watch them once or twice before we come in. But we haven't seen these yet. We haven't looked at these in full yet. Greg watches them with no sound. And twice the speed. Yeah, double speed. So that's what we're going to do first. And after that, we're going to have four people from you guys come up and you're going to do what we do. We're going to play you a different video, a different group of videos. And you're going to tell us what you see. So the first video, the second video, we're getting four more people. Same thing for the third video and the fourth video and the fifth video. Can I add some, for clarification, two separate tapings. This first one is us doing a show you watch. Then we'll stop, we'll reset, and we'll do it so that we bring up people from the audience to answer a video. How's that? Yeah. But you're here for a show. First live taping. And don't forget to hit that subscribe button down right back here, please. And like, like, like. That was great. All right, let's roll. Scott, you want to do our usual introduce and then I'll tell you. You got to do it. Well, today, we're going to talk about, I don't know who the guy is. You just say we've got three murderers, two murderers, whatever, and I'll go from there. Okay, great. I'll talk to you. All right. So we're going to introduce ourselves? Yeah, guys, this is how it really works. This is what we really do. So except we're looking at each other on there. Chase is looking at himself, but we look at each other. There's a lot of that going on too. Okay. So I'm Scott Rouse from Body Language Expert now. I'm the train law enforcement military and what is the interrogation by the expert. I'm Mark Bowden. I'm an expert in human behavior and body language. I help people all over the world to stand out when trust gain credibility every time they communicate, including some of the leaders of the G7 chase. Hey, I'm Chase Hughes. I did 20 years of the U.S. military. I'm a neuroscientist. I train intelligence agencies and the general public and persuasion, influence, and behavior profiling. Greg Hartley. I'm a former Army interrogation instructor, resistance to interrogation instructor, and I've written 10 books on body language and behavior. Hang on a second, Mark. Usually, again, yours is too loud. If you come down, it's a little bit... This is always over there. ...about 3 dB. Okay. Are you sure my light's okay? Do you see that? Okay. I'll keep the first part. Hey, can you guys hear my air conditioner? Yeah. Well, not right now. Hang on. Everybody hold? Hold. This is our show. Yeah, I can hear it back there. I think it'll be okay then. That's a 22 dB. Who's talking for that? That's me. Sorry, I got a letter back down. Yeah, that's cool. Okay, first video. Everybody ready? Talk about what we're doing and then... Wait a minute. All right. Ready? Here we go. All right. Well, today we're going to talk about these people. I don't know who they are yet. I'm going to throw it to Greg. I shouldn't do it that way. Let me just say this. Okay, hang on. This is exactly how it happens every time. Yeah. Because I get... I've said this before. I'm going to say it again. Because I don't... Yeah, I get the shits and giggles. I don't like to cuss. But I'm going to say it the second time there. Third time here. I do get the shits and giggles when we do this. Because it's real quiet. Everybody's looking at me like, now watch. And I get the shits and giggles. Okay. And it's because of Mark, I think. And then Chase will do something. Then I'll start laughing. Then I'll get after Chase. And Chase will get all calmed down. Then Greg will straighten us out. And Mark goes, all right, Paul, let's just go. And then I go like this. Here we go. Let's go. Okay. Hang on. That happens, too. All right. Well, today we're going to talk about a suspected murderer, a couple of them, if we get far enough in them. I'm going to tell you what we think about, what we see in their body language. And let's see what you think about it. Greg, tell us about the videos we're going to watch. Yeah, there's three separate cases. The first one is a guy named Stephen McDaniel. If you've ever seen him from Georgia, kind of makes me so proud to be from Georgia. The second one is a guy named, I don't remember the guy's name, and they found this dead body behind his house. The third one is Ian Huntley from England. Those are what we're talking about. All these people are talking to reporters. Nobody knows that they've done anything yet. All right. You ready? Yeah. Here we go. Well, maybe not. You're going to get that lean, Scott. This is something I probably keep for the rest of my life, I think. It's what Holly gave me on the last day of term. She was very, very upset because I didn't get my job. And that's the kind of girl she was. She was just lovely. He was lovely. That's really very sweet, isn't it? Yeah. All right. And it was just afterwards what we... Right then I would stop thinking. Dude, we're looking at the wrong video. This is the last half of the video. So we'll start with this one. We'll start here. I don't know who this is, but apparently she's... Do you want a data point? You got it. This is the girlfriend of the guy who murdered two young girls, and she apparently knew about it, and she was interviewed. Nobody even knows the girls are dead yet. So, there you go. I think she does. All right. Hang on a second. Ready? All right, here we go. Chase, what do you got? Well, right away we're seeing some eye contact avoidance. Her eyes are going down on the left, which most of us will associate with some emotional accessing, which you guys learned from a lot of Greg's training. There's a couple of things that we're seeing here that she's avoiding eye contact during these critical moments. And if you look when she's handling that note, her nails are bitten down to the nub. We've never seen this video before, and you can see a large lip retraction. She sucks the lip into the mouth, which we typically associate with a need for reassurance. And if you watch that again, that's at a very critical moment that might suggest some guilt. That's really very sweet, isn't it? Yeah. Scott, what do you got? The main thing that struck me in this was, she talked about the girl in the past hands. She said she was this. She was this kind of girl that did this or that. At the same time, I agree with you, Chase, because we're not seeing the eye contact we should be seeing, although she is looking at this little note or whatever. She's using that as a barrier between them. See how her shoulder's up and she's leaning this way? Although it's not a full-on barrier sideways, we see that barrier coming around this way. Shoulders up a little bit. That indicates we're probably looking at some tension there. She's worried a little bit. I'm going to eat everything up. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So what interests me is she looks really quite well-grewed for this situation. They're self-grooming there, the cross outside rather than inside. I would think that cross would go inside rather than outside. So I'm wondering, has she placed it outside there? I think we definitely see some kind of disdain, maybe, and also with a flick there, which I would call a faint, which is to kind of say, hey, look how well-groomed I am. Pay no attention to... Thank you. Pay no attention. I have to use my hands, you see. So I was like, I'm not holding my mic. I get you. I'm not holding my... Look at that. I'm in stereo now. That's amazing. I get you. That's beautiful. I get you, boo. That's beautiful sound. That's beautiful sound. And look where it lands there. Is that somebody who's suffering loss or is that somebody who's almost in his... Well, a constant state of disdain. I know it's frozen frame, but I wouldn't even expect that to be on somebody's face in her position. Yeah. Anyway, there we go. Greg, what have you got? Yeah, I think she went to Amber Heard School of Acting. You can see her snarl lip. She does the... I'm just a girl. She uncovers her ear, and you may see it's because her hair is blowing, but her hair is still blowing. She doesn't do it again. I think it's a comforting move as she does this. She also, as you said, Chase, she said was. She was a nice girl. By the way, this girl was the teacher of one of these kids, and she does the lip-persing of disapproval. That's good enough for me. I think we've got plenty to say. Let's talk to her. All right. All right, what's next? They were here at 6.15. Well, we have an eyewitness. Ian Huntley here is a familiar figure. Evening in, you're the school caretaker. The girls Jessica and Holly would know you, and they saw you on the front doorstep. What went on? I don't know the girls. I was still on the front doorstep, grooming my dog down. She'd run away and come back a bit of a mess. They just came across and asked how Miss Carr was, and she used to teach them at St Andrews. I just said she weren't very good as she hadn't got the job. And they just said, please tell her that we're very sorry. And off the walk to the direction of the library over there. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, first of all, guys, look at that pronounced grief muscle. Why does he have a grief muscle? These are not. If he doesn't know these little girls, yeah, it's sad when a little kid goes missing, but I don't sit around with a grief muscle. Number one. Number two, I watch his speech patterns. They change when he says they went off in the direction of, and his hand points off, and he stammers. And off the walk to the direction of the library over there. There's also some little smirk there in his lips. I would be crawling all over this guy over that very thing right there, that grief muscle. Why is this such a big deal? And he edits as he's speaking. So he starts off saying the girls, oh, I don't know the girls. I don't know the girls. There's an injective information that we really don't need. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, why is he willing to be choreographed? That's clearly a choreographed, okay, so what I want you to do is kind of move into shot and start walking into shot. He seems really comfortable with that. If he was really concerned about these kids, I think this is concerned for the kids, I wouldn't expect that kind of ambling walk that he's got right there. In fact, I would suspect he wouldn't take direction very, very well. And his concentration would be over his shoulder where the kids, where he's been told, oh, you know, and then point out later on where they went. But his head keeps turning to that house there. So I'm wondering, I don't really know this case, I'm wondering, did something happen in the house? Is he pointing us out to where something happened rather than where he's saying it happened over there? Anyway, just some thoughts. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, so we see one thing that we're seeing a lot of guilty people is this stiff rigidity of behavior. And it's not just that it's because he's on camera. So a lot of this, you see that the walk is a little bit comfortable, which helps us to understand he should be a little more comfortable here if he was innocent. So he's comfortable being on camera the moment he's being questioned, he stiffens up. So we have a nice luxurious stroll into the camera here. We also see this rigidity on the face and Mark, I'm with you, his head is pointing over and leaning at that house during these very critical points when he's talking about it. And he's pointing away from here. He's not willing to talk about the girls. We have high detail about non-relevant items. We have low detail about relevant items. So we have a detail spike and detail valley at very critical points that suggest guilt. Scott, what do you got? I agree with you, 100%. Because right there, he's been asked to stand there when I walk up. You walk toward the camera and we'll start talking, right? So I think that's one of the reasons he feels so odd when we're seeing that rigidity. However, right here what you're seeing is someone trying to keep a face they're thinking of. They're trying, in other words, when we talk about having a resting face, he's trying to act like nothing's wrong. However, we do see the grief muscle up there. See, there at the top, right there, you can see it's really, really big at that point. Now, we're not seeing a whole lot of blinking. A lot of times what we equate that with is the person who's not being honest wants to keep their eye on you to make sure you believe and watch when he turns around and see how big his eyes are at that point. That's the largest they were. He turned around and his eyes were really big. That's a big redirect from where he is right now. I agree with you guys on that. At the same time, I think the rigidity is not only, now watch this, see him walk up. He's trying to be cool. He's standing there like that. That little smile that comes up and goes away. Now he's worried. Watch his blink rate. It's almost nothing at this point as he looks. There's where the grief muscle kicks in and he's looking away from the guy as he's talking. He can't quite back up enough, but we've seen back up just a little bit as he starts talking. I've never seen someone who was telling the truth that short little shoulder shrug right there over here on his right, our left. When it goes up, if the chin is that way, personally I've never seen somebody who was telling the truth to do that when you ask them a question, something specific like that. When they say that they can shoulder shrug all they want to and all that, but when the chin goes to it, that bothers me every time. So I really zone in on that. So that really bothers me. You're right, Greg. I'd like that guy up like a... We have to get a watch on language. There's a quick note. When we're talking about grief muscles here, we usually use grief muscle to see truth telling. And right here, this is the difference in the style of questioning, the type of person asking and why they're being asked the question. Murderers can feel bad about the victims as well. And I think especially when there are children involved, that's when you're more likely to see grief. There's more guilt associated with it. Yeah, and grief can be because they know they're about to be discovered as well. There's all kinds of reasons for grief, but that arching, guys, when we talk about that, it's a cluster of five muscles. Pull that together. And all it really is, is that little cluster of muscles, doesn't mean for sure there's grief or anything like that. That's why we always associate it with that little upside-down horseshoe. It basically is just a cluster of muscles right there that squish together. And Darwin and Duchain wrote about that in the 1800s. Yeah, yeah. All right, let's go. You guys are good? Yeah. All right, let's go to the next one. This guy makes me so proud to be from Georgia. The last time anyone heard from her was an email that she sent out, and no one's heard from her since. Did you see her hang out with anyone at the time and say like that? I mean, no. No one has seen her since Saturday. I haven't seen anything. I mean, I've always seen noise outside, but it's just people walking by pretty much. And she just recently graduated from Mercer? Yeah, she and I were, we were both JD students. We graduated back in May. What kind of person was she? I mean, how did you, what did you see? I mean, she's as nice as can be. I mean, very personable, very much a people person. Do you know anybody that, any enemies she might have had, somebody that might want to hurt her? No, I mean, we all know where she is. I mean, the only thing we can think is that maybe she went out running and someone snatched her. I was, I mean, we went over, one of her friends had a key. We went inside and tried to see if there was anything amiss, but I mean, she had a door jam that was sitting right by it. So there was no sign that anyone broke in. I mean, door was locked when everyone got here. I mean, we just don't know where she is. Okay, quickly before we start, this story is this kid was a, would you hire him as a lawyer, first question, because he's a JD who just graduated and is about to take the bar. She was a neighbor. He broke in, sexually assaulted her, killed her, dismembered her, and got rid of her. Yeah, horrible guy. He's in jail forever. All right, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I'm just going to say one thing about this, which is, so Rudolph Laban, who I had talked about earlier in the 1920s, started trying to describe movement and create a model of it. And part of that model was around being direct or indirect, direct or indirect. And I want you to look at this video and think, is he direct or is he indirect? Is he very indirect? Does his direction keep changing? So it kind of feels indirect at the moment. Is he kind of flowing like direct water or is it like scattering all over the place? For such simple questions and such a simple situation, which is, hey, tell me about, you know, tell me about this, it's super indirect. So that just causes concern for me. Why can't he just be really clear, really direct around some simple, simple questions? Look at those, those, those. They're just indirect, indirect, indirect. Instead of pointed, pointed, pointed, straight head, clear focus, very unfocused. Scott, what do you got? All right, this really bothers me because he's talking about other people quite often in this. We went and did this. We look for, we don't want to think. Quite often when someone, as you can see in here, I guess somebody kills somebody, what you'll hear is this. The person won't find them by themselves. They'll have killed a person, left them in the living room or the bathtub or something, and they'll get someone to go with them to find them when they find, oh, I found, they won't say, I found a body. They'll say, my neighbor and I found a body. I went and got them and they went in there with me. That's what he's doing verbally there. He's adding people to this story. So it looks like he's surrounded by people and there's no way he would have been able to do that. That huge grief muscle that just clicks right on right there. That lets us know there's something, something's up and he's starting to get worried here. He keeps, he's redirecting everything away from himself to a group and put himself in a group. We couldn't find, we did this. She and I did something. It's never, well there's a couple times I just say I did this or I did that. But it's very, very thin, very thin. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, Mark, I know why he's doing this because when you're Gandalf you got a spell cast. You know, he's kind of doing that because it goes with a persona. But if you watch him, what he's doing is he is not asking for help. Not one time as he said, hey, this is my friend. She's been missing for, if you lost your dog tomorrow morning, you wouldn't go out and say, I went home last night and opened the door and my little dog wasn't there. And then some friends came over and they saw my little dog went, that's BS. We would say, hey, this is my friend. Here's what she looks like. We always say this. Here's what she looks like. He doesn't do that. He uses team pronouns as Chase would call it, what I call blame sharing. We, we, we, we, we, we. And there's a whole lot of stuff there. And he said, when everyone arrived, hmm, that's an odd choice of words to me. So I would go after that when everyone arrived immediately. And that grief muscle is just screaming, screaming there. And he does a lip-persing once and a withdrawal the other time, meaning drawing back. When he said, does she have any enemies? No. Hmm, interesting. Those are two places I would, I would go after him pretty hard. Chase, what do you got? Dude. Dude. Dude. Mike is here. Edit that out. Please. I'll take care of it. Nobody's gonna see it. It makes me look stupid. He's gonna jump over you later though, right? All right, so we're seeing rapid jerky movements back and forth. We're seeing these confirmation glances. And one thing that makes it not really a confirmation glance is threat checking. He's checking which one do I need to pay the most attention to because which one is going to punish me the most, which one has the capacity to damage me the most. One incredible question to ask in these scenarios for any news reporter that ever sees this, a simple three-word question that will throw off anyone guilty and make anyone innocent just confused and say, what? Here it is. Are you nervous? And the way that somebody answers that question will just reveal just about whatever you need. And an innocent person is gonna go, what? No. I wanna find my friend. So we see a lot of that here. We see injection of ambiguity. That's one of those things we talk about very regularly. I'm inserting ambiguity in here to confuse or conflate a lot of the facts around the investigation. Again, not asking for help for the friends. But this rapid jerky movement, if he's looking away and the other person starts talking, instantly rapid redirect his eye contact back to the person talking. This is a person that's pre-fighter-flight behavior right here. I'm checking immediately when someone starts talking because I'm fearful of what is coming from that person. That's a potential threat. Hey, guys, I always say this. Just try to make them smaller. Just try to make them tighter. And drag your line. Always going on. No, now you say. Guys, let's just do what we do. Every time. Let's just do what we do. Come on. Let's not change it. All right. Let's see what's next. Okay. Same guy, hopefully. What about in the parking lot area? I know they've been doing a lot of, I think that's where they have recovered the body or whatever they recovered from there. Howdy. Had you heard it? Had you seen anything there? Had you seen anything there? I mean, we don't know if this is the same person. You know what I mean? Like, they took out a body there earlier. We don't know if this is the same person or not. That's how we're trying to ask people if they know who lived there. Are you okay, sir? I think I need to sit down. Okay. That's too bad. But, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, I'll keep this one really short. There's nothing like the guy getting discovered right there. See his face goes slack in terror. You see, we talk about fighter flight. You see his pale, he goes pale as he can be. His lips are drawing. Everything is starting to happen in for respiration. Watch everything going on here. This is one of those moments that we very, rarely get to see on TV. And he just realizes the gig is up. Look at his blink rate. Everything we've taught you about all this. You don't need an R or an S here. You just need to go, okay, this guy's done something. Something's wrong. That apprehension, that deep breath. And whether you think he's trying to fake it so that he's faking surprise. He's not faking surprise. He's like, uh-oh, I thought I hit her better than that. That's what it is. Chase, what do you got? If you go back, when you start watching, I had to do that. He's doing the squirrel in the road right here. And then I have to edit out Greg talking over to Chase. Okay, ready? Here we go. Every episode. Greg, you want to bring it back in? Greg? Greg, we got to do it again. So Scott can cut out. Okay, yeah, I got it. Ready? Here we go. Chase, what do you got? Oh, thanks, Greg. You can see at the beginning of the video, the lips are pink. End of the video, lips are white. There's you go. You can see lips right there. Blood starts leaving. His head's going to come down right now. Boom. Chin dropping. This is a little bit of throat protective behavior. So right at that moment, the mention of body right there, there's fear. One interesting thing, if you believe in energy or anything like that, the moment this happens, that dog's tail stops wagging. And he climbs under that car. Pretty strange. So that's what we're seeing. Fight or flight, blood is leaving the face. And if you believe in that energy stuff, you're seeing it. Scott, what do you got? All right. Yeah. Well, dude, I'm going to kind of go against you on a little bit of this. I think we're seeing a combination of fake and real. It hits him and he goes, yeah, they know. They found her. So there's going to be problems. That's why we're seeing that part. This other part where he does that fake step back coming up. Here it comes. Like, oh my gosh. I'm just so, I'm shocked to see how shocked I am. I've got to go sit down. The head goes back up and watch him turn. Look at his eyes. He's looking right at her. His eyes wide look right at her. And that fakes. I think that's, I think that's fake. I think it's a mix. The first part of it, I agree with the Israel, but I think from there on he goes, okay, well, here we go. And then, oh yeah, I'm shocked. I'm aghast at what's happening. That'd be the only thing I'd focus on. I'd get after him for that. That's where I'd climb up the sign. He forgets sadness too. That's true. That's true. Grief. Everything else is the, oh, poor me. Okay. We good? Mark. Oh, Mark. Sorry about that. Okay. One more time. Hang on a second. Nice. I want to pick up further on what you're talking about the dog under there. So in the 1960s, Sir David Attenborough made a film of Oliver Twist. And there's a moment in that film where Bill Sykes goes into a room and kills Nancy. What Attenborough did was to show you the reaction of the dog during that, the reaction of the dog and the dog scrambles at the door. And when the murder happens, then goes away. So it was a brilliant piece of filmmaking and changed, number one, the way that you can show violence by showing you the effect on something else. So I think it's brilliant that you pick up on that. And I think we're partly primed as well to pick up on the, because of that film and because of other films since that, on the reactions of other objects, other things, other people in the room to a very threatening moment. But regardless of all of that, that expression just there is such a mix, like the eyes are almost rolling back, the mouth has dropped, he's become very, very still, that I'm kind of with you, Scott, in that it's such a bizarre mixture, either that I'm going there's an extreme kind of neurological problem at that point, or he is taking what's really happening in his mind and mashing it up with some kind of acting going on at the same time. So I think it is a mash-up going on there, which is why it looks so odd. It looks beyond any other faint response that I've seen. I think if it was a real faint response, he'd have gone to the ground right now. With those eyes rolling back, I'd be going, because I thought, oh, he's going to hit the ground, he's going to hit the ground. Oh, no, hang on. No, he isn't going to hit the ground. Hang on, he's in control of his faint response. Well, I'm a bit concerned about that then, because he shouldn't be in control of that response right now. Anyway, that's all I've got on that one. Does anybody got a heart out on this? Do I get a heart attack on the interview somewhere else? Hard quits. Not today. Keep going. Yeah, let's keep going. Okay. Do we have another one? No one had seen her since Saturday, because we all just, there's not a whole lot of interaction unless we're doing classes. Right. And she was doing online version of it. You all studied together, though? We're wearing, there's two different people, there's two companies that provide it. Captain provides it, and Barbie provides it. I signed up with Barbie, and I've been doing the lectures that they have in the mornings. She was doing the Kaplan online. So I hardly ever saw her. All right, Chase, what do you got? So right away, we're seeing this, this occurring, you know, in the last video, we saw a lot of palm and wrist exposure. Every single gesture here is palms toward the body, a little more protective. I think he enjoys this hair in front of his face. He makes no effort to get it out of his face. I think it's helpful for him. It's covering up his face. We can do anything to cover our face when we're in a point of crisis that we possibly can. He's looking down into his right in this video, which suggests that he's just rehearsed all of this stuff, or he's rehearsing this mentally while he's saying this stuff. In the last video, when he was using a lot of this language, you'd see him close his mouth a little bit more. Now he's probably less comfortable with this, talking about his relationship with the person who's deceased. Mouth doesn't close very much. He's open between a lot of these. We see the breathing rate is in the chest, not the abdomen here, so you can see the chest rising and falling. Just looking at that T-shirt right there. So we're seeing that go up. It's the first time any of us have seen this video. So, Greg, what do you have? Yeah, when someone's gesturing and they're doing all this stuff with their hands, we expect their elbows to rise away. There's one time it does. The rest of the time, he's doing this, like his arms are tied. His elbows are to his side. Remember, I talked to you about exoskeleton all the time. When a person is feeling fight or flight and they close, their elbows near their torso to protect that soft white underbelly, because we're the only animals dumb enough to expose that, that's what he's doing. And look at that respiration, as you said, Chase. He's just... I mean, he still looks like some Lord of the Rings character, but aside from that, if you keep watching him, his hands are coming up. He's trying to convey some message that he's pre-prepared and he's iterative storytelling. You can't miss it. We, he's using those teen pronouns again. He's using things to try to make it sound like, well, she was doing this. Too much information about which test she was taking and the reason why he has not seen her. And in fact, probably the reason he knew is because he's looking through her window. Scott, what do you got? Yeah. I'd climb up a sign and... I'm sorry, fellas. I would... I'd go in after he says... When she asks him about what she's doing and he's doing something together, he said no, she's... And he started shaking his head, no. Then started telling about all the things he's doing online. That's all I talked about pretty much after that. You all studied together, though? Yeah. We were in... There's two different people. There's two companies that provide it. Kaplan provides it and Barbary provides it. I signed up with Barbary and I've been doing the lectures that they have in the mornings. She was doing the Kaplan online. So he's separating himself from her. Again, using all the wheeze and all that stuff. I got nothing else to add to that because that's where I would start right then at that point. Mark, where you got? Yeah. He is... I can't even work out how you managed to work out what he's saying. I'm from Georgia. Because I couldn't follow it at all. And I don't think it's just that. We can't understand. You have the time. What do you mean? Speaking the Queen's English. Yeah, buddy. It's all over the place at the moment. All over the place. Again, let me go back to that laban idea. Is he flowing like water and I tend to see people telling the truth. It tends to flow like water, okay? Or is it like ice and is it indirect? Is it direct water or is it indirect ice at the moment? For me, that's indirect ice. Look at it. It's like jagged. And that's why I can't work out what he's saying. If I start to mirror those movements, I can't even get words out, which means I think he's under a huge cognitive load right now. I don't think he knows what on earth is going on. He's got no plan at the moment. If he was really looking for his friend, you have a plan. The camera's there. The mic's there. You've got an interviewer. What's your plan? Let me tell you. Let me give you all the information I can. It's a clearer way as possible. He's not capable of that. Something's going on for sure. All right. Is that everybody? Good. Are there five minutes left to think? Fourteen minutes. Do you want to do one more? If we have one more. I would see you go out running. What time would you go out running? I don't even know when. At night or morning? I saw midday a couple of weeks ago. That was the last time I saw her. Come back from the bar prep on the main camp. Because we got moved over there for a week or two. But she normally would run. Yeah. She ran all the time. She had a group that she would go running with. I don't know anyone that would want to hurt her. She was as nice a person as there is. Was she moving soon as you know how to be about her? She was going to be moving out today. She was supposed to move out today. Because someone else was going to be moving into her apartment. The new law school. Go first on this one. For somebody who doesn't know her very well. He sure does hang out with her a lot. And knows her schedule and what she's doing. All those types of things. I'd go in on that. When you heard Jason make that sound. Do the sound again, Chase. When we come back from whatever we're watching. Whatever the funniest sound is. Chase nails it every time something good. What was the girl? And I always do it while we're in between. When you guys can't see it. Almost every video. That's what we're laughing about half the time. When we come back. That's where I'd start. I'll suck up everything. Because there's not tons of stuff. Greg, what do you got? I'll keep this one really short. He's got his chin down to protect his throat. I think he's running out of load. He has very little capacity left. That thing he's doing. Imagine your attorney being that guy. He's under stress. He gets up there and he starts stammering and doing stupid stuff. He's shaking his head. He's got a story he's trying to pitch out. His ability to deliver that story is gone because his little brain is like a squirrel on the road running back and forth. That's what I got. Mark, what do you got? I've got your boo. I've got your boo. I used to get people to hyperventilate on purpose as a stress test. If I'm training them, and I'm training them to do a public speech and I know they're going under or an interview, they're going into a high stress situation, I'll get them to hyperventilate and then deliver with technique because you want to stress test it as much as you can. It's really hard to get people to hyperventilate on purpose. They stop themselves really fast because the body is not designed to do that. He does the same. He's trying to hyperventilate on purpose. He does about three. Like I was saying this morning, by about the third breath you get enough of a change. The endocrine system starts to buzz different chemicals around him and his body goes, I don't want to do that because he wants to be in control. Who here has hyperventilated before? Anybody done that? When you start, if you're doing it for real, can you stop yourself? No. If you start to hyperventilate, you can't stop yourself. You're now into a pattern. He stops himself. You can't stop that breathing if you're really in that emotional state. He's not in that emotional state. He's acting. That. Chase, what do you go? I would venture to say this is a kid with social anxiety, most likely, before any of this happened. That might explain some of the rapidity of some of these movements. But a person with social anxiety experiencing real hyperventilation, real grief, real extreme freakouts would do immediately whatever they could to get away from the camera. Not to make sure that it's displayed to the camera. That's all I got. Jim, what question would you ask this guy? If you had one question asked that guy, what would you ask right now? Well, I would still go back and try to re-establish the story. When did you last see her? And he'd have to respond with a lie if he's trying to cover. Or, again, see if that changes his storytelling or, of course, he's selling and not telling. But I just want to revisit when did you last see her? And see where he goes for his accessing and stuff like that. Excellent. Thank you, man. I can't wait to get him here. We can do that. I don't know if you see what I did. Okay. All right. In 30 seconds of the lessons, talk about what we think we've seen. We'll go around the room and I'll wrap it up. Mark, where you got? I just loved seeing that dog. You know, reminded me of Peach a little bit. But isn't it interesting how we home in on other living things within an environment as kind of a Rorschach test for the emotions that might be ... Dogs don't have emotions like human beings. They just ... I know we think they do, but I don't think they can. And so we tend to project our own emotions or the emotions of other people onto them, and that's why they get so much love from us, because they're kind of an avatar for that. But lovely to see that. Thanks for bringing that up, Chase. Chase, what do you think? Yeah, so anytime we're seeing anybody do any of these, we do a lot of these. My number one or top two things that I look for, where's the detail and where's the absence of detail? That will get you halfway there most of the time. Second thing I'm looking for is this person's story focused on solving whatever problem has been caused or focused on their story and their innocence. And here's the caveat to that. If it's ... they're just kind of a witness, so like I was driving by the Circle K when the murder happened. I have no idea who the murderer is. They're trying to volunteer as much information as possible, and they're not making the story about themselves. They're saying it's 5 p.m. I was driving past the gas station. All I saw were a couple of lights out. So trying to give some information about what's going on. So that would be the caveat there. That was Greg's cousin. Greg? No, my cousin's another articulate. So I would say wrapping all those things together, if we took the concept of clearing versus steering, when you've got a friend who's missing, a dog who's missing, or something else, you steer to try to find that person. When all your details are about clearing your name and you're bringing in every resource you can, adding details to the back to protect yourself, you're probably involved. And if you look at two of the three people had grief muscle in people that they are not necessarily tightly associated with. So I think pretty good indicator and we know that all those bodies were recovered and those people were found guilty. That's all I got. Well to me it looks like, I think we're seeing a great study here and people are understanding as they're being questioned. And if they've done something they're not supposed to be doing and they've been asked for movement and they can move forward and they can move back a little bit more easily than someone's sitting down. Also I think it's a great study in the quote-unquote grief muscle as we see that on there. So two different guys, two different grief muscles, one more pronounced in the second guy than the first guy and a lot of redirection in both of them. So I think it's a great study in not only the standing in the grief muscle but it's almost a little class in redirection especially with the second guy because he was never there, he was never around and the first guy was talking about how it happened and the last time we saw him they went around the other way. So I think that's a great little lesson in that. Alright, well I think it's a good infelds and we'll see you next time. Don't forget to hit that like button and subscribe. Thanks.