 A good day again, viewers, and welcome to the program, Agriculture on the Move. My name, Philip Sidney, your host for the next half an hour. Today, we have a very interesting conversation. We are talking about feral pigs. That is wild pigs in the wild. So I'm going to go show my own. And of course, it's a very good. Wild is a good delicacy for consumption, but it's causing some serious damage to the farming community. And of course, to discuss this further, is Mr. Aloysius Charles, who is the forest officer responsible for a program that looking at the control of the feral pigs. Welcome to the program, sir. Thank you, sir. OK, tell us about the problems that the feral pigs cause in the wild. OK, so first in 2018, that's when the problem first started. We really started getting lots of reports about this problem with feral pigs. So we had reports from lots of farmers, and even some of our experienced forestry officers would go out in the forest, would have reports about a lot of wild wing, which is what you typically call labui. Yes, so it find quite a lot of evidence of such. And we had lots of reports from farmers stating that they had been actually losing some of the crops. So that led us back in 2018 to start out the investigation as to the issues associated with the presence of feral pigs. And we also wanted to find out whether we had to get evidence that this was what was actually happening, was actually being done by feral pigs. OK. So where do you find that problem more focused on? What areas? So the areas where feral pigs were most prevalent, what we found was in the central forest reserve between the areas of Mellet, Dennery, and Soufres. So these were the three areas that were most affected by the feral pigs according to the information that we picked up. Yeah, and in fact, I know January for sure because the Minister of Agriculture, Alfred Prosfe, had a meeting, a farmer's meeting, some things last year in Dennery. And coming from that meeting, what was highlighted was farmers were complaining that feral pigs were interfering a lot with their crops and causing some serious economic damage to their crops and livelihoods. I know some years ago, maybe before your time involved, they had given some of the older farmers fire arms to actually control. That helped well. But of course, a lot of those farmers have passed on. So you have a new breed of farmers now. So I am all thinking, working with the police to arm the farmers to control because what I was told was that when they come in a pack, they can attack you and run you from your farm. Yes, well, feral pigs can be pretty much aggressive. But when it comes to handing out of fire arms, that is beyond the Department of Forestry. So what we are concerned with is to actually use some of the latest technological advancements to be able to help so that there be more detectability. And we are working alongside the police, but we are not the ones responsible for issuing fire arms. So in this project, we are going to have the police as one of the stakeholders where they are going to accompany us in dispatching some of the wild pigs that are detected under this project. So you are still having farmers coming to us as we speak with having a serious problem with wild pigs? Yes. Well, from back in 2018, we actually did a survey, island-wide survey, where we actually interviewed more than 100 farmers. And out of that, about 25% of these farmers actually reported that they had so much damage from feral pigs that at one point they had to totally abandon the farms. Leave the farms? Yes. Wow. And there's another problem I was told that is caused is the excrete and water intakes a lot. And they tend to, especially in the dry season, wallow at those points. Have you all been given that type of information? Well, yes. We have heard reports about this, but under this project as well, we are hoping to ascertain some of these claims because water quality testing is one of the activities that we are going to undertake under the project. So we are going to be collecting samples because we have at least 16 major rivers that actually start out from the Central Forest Reserve. And that is within the same study area. So there is the potential that these feral pigs might be polluting these water sources. They desiccate. Yes. When they defecate in the water, it might cause pollution of these water sources. So we are hoping to investigate that question and try to get a concrete answer to that question under the project after we have done all of the water quality testing. OK. So let's go back to the project. So the project started off when? As of February 1st, 2023. Tell us about the project. What are the objectives of the project? All right. So the name of the project is feral pig management for nature conservation and sustaining rural livelihoods. So under this, we have these two main objectives. So we actually want to start off a hunting scheme along with some other hunters. Where these hunters, they are going to be licensed so they can operate within the Forest Reserve hunting the feral pigs. So that would help in decreasing the numbers of the feral pigs. And the other component is for nature conservation. So we are hoping that this as well would lessen the impact on the forest as well. So do they, apart from doing damage economically to the farmers, are they damaging the forest trees, et cetera? Yes, they do cause damage as well. Because in all of the previous studies in other countries as well, we know that they do have the ability to change the forest composition by sometimes feeding too much on one particular species and probably causing even the extinction in some cases of these species. So how do they damage those three species? Well, they cause damage sometimes by overfeeding on the seeds or the young plants of a particular species. So that would not leave much space for natural regeneration for future trees to grow. And what about the actual damage to the tree bark and the trunks and stuff? Do they do that too, no? Yes, they do cause damage to the tree barks as well, and tree trunks and tree barks and quite a bit of wallowing as well. So that would destroy quite a few seeds from some of the more endangered plant species as well. And even the introduction of all the species that will never be like invasive species. Oh, OK. What's the intention? The intention is to eradicate them completely or to have some measure of control, at least to know, OK, in terms of conservation and to add to the wildlife. Is there a combination of the two, or is it complete eradication? Well, we know from studies from other countries all over the world that eradication is very difficult. But we aim in at control and maybe hopefully, depending on the success of the program, maybe eventually eradication. But for now, we are more concerned with control of the population. The control of it? Yes. So further studies as we go along and we pick up more data, it might equip us better to be able to deal with the situation at hand and maybe eventually we might get to eradication. But as of now, we're looking at control. OK. So OK, then to get data from the field, what measures are in place to do that? So, presently, we are going to be using some collars to be able to track these pigs around. So we'd be able to know where they spend the time, where they are till we get the exact locations and we're able to track them around. And we also hoping to use some real-time cameras as well. So we are able to estimate the size of the groups and the eventual population of the wild pigs. How are you going to get the collar on those pigs? We are going to, we're working along with the vet unit as well, so we are hoping to tranquilize a few of the adults, especially the adult females, allow them to be able to join back with the groups and be able to follow them around and to be able to dispatch members of the group as we encounter them. OK, so if one of the pigs is able to put a collar around it, can you identify that pig by going there and having a tracker on it, having some sort of system that will pinpoint exactly where that pig is? Yes, well, the telemetric collar is actually outfitted with a device that you're able to use a GPS and go to the location. OK, OK, OK. And so are you all going to just kill every one of them, the adults, the young ones? I mean, everything? Well, yes. That's totally eradication. Well, like I said, we are hoping for control because eradication, like I said, it's very, very difficult to achieve because lessons learned from all of the other projects that have taken place worldwide, we know that eradication is next to impossible because these feral pigs, they are pretty smart. Sometimes when you start to track them, then they change the ways. So that's why we're hoping to use more than one method to actually take out these feral pigs. So how many comrades are you going to be installing in the forest? We are going to start off with 10 cameras. OK. And then the comrades should be able to tell, well, you're getting images back to base. Yes, it's a real-time camera, so it has the potential to act as a motion sensor so it can actually determine whenever there's motion in the area, it can take the footage, sends the photos directly back to us, and then we can tell based on the location of this camera, we can tell in what area these pigs are and what numbers are in the groups of the feral pigs. OK, so how long is it going to take you now to get all that information? Can't believe that sort of that information. And then what action is taken next? All right, so based on the location of these pigs, then we have most of the hunters, we have them from different ranges in some of these affected communities as well, the communities that have been affected because one of the things that the farmers were doing with a little success was that they were contacting the hunters within the areas and then they would go out in the forest and then try to hunt down some of these wild pigs and that's how they were able to chase some of them away because when they come under pressure, they move to other locations. So we're hoping to use some of that success and plus put it together with the new technology that we have, so we should be able to pinpoint these pigs a lot easier and therefore we should be able to have a lot more control of the situation. OK, so when they are shot in the interior, how do you get the cacos back to base because of the terrain that you're dealing with and depending on the size of the pig, so you're going to actually get them cleaned up and cut into various parts and take them back down to the base? Yes. So you're not carrying the whole pig back, no? Well, yes, the pig has to be carried back. So because of course the hunters are going, this is one of the components of the livelihoods component, so the hunters are going to be using this meat and it's going to be certified by environmental health and these hunters will be able to sell them back and to make some money. OK, so it's more or less a form of likelihood for the hunters themselves? Yes, it is. OK, so in that project, I mean, you all brought in stakeholders, you all brought in Ministry of Health, you all brought in the Fed Division and the wealth. Well, Ministry of Agriculture, we have the police as well. All right, and the hunters? Yes, the hunters. OK, all right. So after you've collected that data, then you'll move in to various areas knowing where they are, so now it is slaughter time? Yes. Those pigs basically, they were domesticated and they just escaped to the wild, right? And that's why it is? Yes, over time. Over time? Yes. OK, and because of the environment, they're able to change the whole body structure and the whole thing that's changed. Well, pigs are able to adapt very easily to any environment that they introduce to. And they multiply very quickly too, right? Very quickly. Because I think based on my zoology and my animal husband's three days, it takes three months, three weeks, three days for a gestation period. So once they get service, then in three months, three days, you have a young one. Yes. And they multiply a lot very, very, very quickly, OK? So you can have multiple liters just within one year? Yes, within a year. Coming from so many various sows, yes. All right, OK, well, we'll do for our food break. You're watching Agriculture on the Move. Stay tuned, we'll be back very soon. The Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries, Food Security and Rural Development continues placing heavy emphasis on the concept of food security. It's our prosperity, our future. Livestock production is a support program offered by the ministry. It guarantees 28.65% and 40% market share for poultry and swine production, respectively. There is ongoing disease surveillance and treatment, improved bloodline support, laboratory support, training, and technical support. You can learn more on livestock production, contact the chief veterinary officer at 468-5620 for further. Welcome back to the program, Agriculture on the Move, of course, I am Philip Sidney. And with me from the Forestry Department, Mr. Loisius Charles, who is a forest officer. And we were just talking about the feral pigs and the sort of damage they do to the farmers' crops and affect their livelihoods. And the aim here is to destroy the whole completely, eradication, OK? Mr. Charles, are there, apart from the being, I call them vegetarians, because they eat a lot of berries and seeds and, of course, the dashing and the young farmers, are they threatened by any other wild animals in the wild, no? No, well, feral pigs wouldn't belong to this environment naturally, so they don't have any predators. Within this environment. But you call them vegetarians, and I wouldn't quite call them vegetarians, because we know that they also eat meat items as well. So they would get young animals on the forest floor as well. Like what? They would eat them. Like what? So we might have lizards, young birds, some of them fledglings, because some of the fledglings tend to spend a few days on the forest floor before they can actually find their wings and take off. And if a feral pig would come across one, then we know definitely. And they can get eggs and suffer on the place also. Eggs from all the species as well. OK, OK, OK. So they would tend to consume literally anything that they can come across. So they would be a multi in that way. OK, have you all, I don't know if you know, but will the survey capture, for example, the movement of the animals, see from the forest areas to the farmers' holdings? Is it done just arbitrarily? Or is there some time of the year when they will migrate from the forest, deep forest, and come to the location where farmers are farming? Well, once we've outfitted these pigs with telemetry collars, then these telemetry collars will be able to give us 24 hours of information as to what exactly the pig does, when it does. And like I said, the location. So it can tell us everything about that. Presently, we don't have all of that information available. So we're hoping that this would actually shed some light on the subject area. So by the time that the project is done, we're hoping to have a lot more information as to where about the pig, what time of the year, where exactly they spend their time, and doing what. Have you all had any meetings with the farmers in the race location, uprising them as to the program that you've started implementing? Well, we are in contact with a few of the farmers and hunters. And we're hoping to have our first take-all the meeting very early next month. So then we should have the discussion on that. And we have the discussion on the project outcomes and objectives all the same within our first take-all the meeting. OK, and so you're moving from millets, you're going to January to have meetings with the farmers? Well, we're hoping to have our first meeting at our base location in Union. So we're bringing the farmers to this location and then we'll have the discussion based on what we're expecting from the project. And well, we have met, like I said, we had discussions with farmers all over the island when we had that first survey back in 2018. That first survey, what was it all about, basically? So it was hoping to capture information about the feral pigs and how much damage that they were causing to some of the crops. And we found, well, a lot of the root crops, farmers that were planting root crops, like tannia, dashing, sweet potatoes, those were a lot of the those that were being damaged, even yams. So that's where we had a lot of the damage. But it was mainly from farmers that had the farms in close proximity to the forest reserve. OK. But you all, as part of the program, the question of consumption. I know it's a delicacy for a lot of persons now. When you hear about the kosher mawa and the texture of the cacas, we know it has a very thin layer of fat, as opposed to the domestic one. I'm all encouraging people in the communities to actually prepare dishes. And so at least that may encourage the hunters to go out more and hunt. Well, yes, we hope in under the program, once we've gotten the ball rolling, that we hope in that one of the things that we can actually get a bit more of. Hunters. How many hunters you would see, for example, that are in Saint-Russia and they are actually going out there to hunt wild pigs? Is this something that is, I mean, prevalent? It's not as prevalent as it used to be, because we had a lot of the older folks who used to be hunters. And like you said, most of them have had their licensed firearms. And of course, the tradition has kind of fallen over time. But at present, we have at least about 10 hunters that we open to work with under this project. OK. All right. So maybe in time as we go along, maybe we might get other persons who have a bit of interest. And maybe we can get a few more hunters coming in. Great. Have you ever had a problem see, for example, we have tourists who are going through the tracks and to actually go bird watching, to see the beauty of the forest, the flora, and the fauna. You have had any experience where they were attacked by the feral pigs? We haven't had any cases of attacks. But I can tell you for sure that, yes, sometimes being out on these excursions, we have encountered wild pigs in the past. But there was no attack on the part of the wild pigs, so, thankfully. They run away? Yes. So you don't think, I mean, what I know from a hundred stories from farmers, when they come like a pack and they're hungry, you and the farmer have to run from your farm? Well, yes, sure. Because these wild pigs, they can get pretty huge. And I mean, they can cause quite a bit of damage if they are to attack. So the best thing is if you encounter wild pigs, the best thing is to run away if you have to. OK, OK. Because it's going to be a difficult fight. If you're not under to take on a wild pig, it's best that you move away. So have you all, is there any restriction, I mean, prior to the project that you are handling right now, with anybody going into the forest and hunting wild pigs? Or do they need a license to go and hunt the pigs? Well, it has always been, according to law, that it is prohibited to just enter the forest reserve without first seeking permission from the Department of Forestry. So one can just go in the forest and hunt wild pigs? Knowing that, I mean, the problem exists, I mean, at least, because going to get a license, I don't know. You can guide me in that regard. How long does it take you to get a license? It wouldn't take long to get a license, because the Chief Forestry Officer can actually issue a license to someone who wishes to get a license, yes. But like I said, it is strictly prohibited to just enter the forest reserve without first contacting the Department of Forestry. So what happens if somebody goes in and you catch a pig coming out of a whole set of wild meat coming out? What will you do? Well, I guess we're from wild pigs. But if it were anything apart from wild pigs, then, yeah, I mean, you could carry some fines. There can be a maximum of $5,000 that you can be charged for an offense. No, I said if it were wild pigs, then, of course, we can look past that, because we're trying to get rid of the wild pigs. Yes, but anything apart from the wild pigs, because all of these other species in there are actually indigenous species. So we wouldn't encourage anybody to kill any of the other indigenous species that are protected by law. OK. What other species of wild animals in the forest that one can go in and shoot and hunt? Well, according to law, the only unprotected species of wildlife here are the furry lands, rats, mice, and the mongos. OK. Unprotected? Unprotected. All other species of wildlife in St. Lucia are protected by law. OK. But you are aware of persons eating the boar and if caught, right? Well, we have heard some reports about that, but as long as we can get any information that points in that direction and we can get any evidence of such, then it would be a chargeable offense. It is OK, OK, OK, OK. Because I know people love the delicacies and they try all sorts of stuff. Apart from hunting, man hunting the wild pig, do you have any, like I said earlier on, can the snake kill the wild pig? It is a possibility, yes. Have you ever, in your survey, can you pick this up too on this project? Well, if we... Other than shooting the animal, I mean, any other way that, I mean, I heard you mention there are no other species that will attack them. Yes. So we're looking at a few methods of trying to tackle the feral pig population. So for one, we'd also use some rope traps and there had been some measure of success with that in the past, at one point, that we use rope traps that are actually attached to a tree. And then they would have... We would bit these traps. So you'd put, like, bananas or fruits, mangoes, different things that are edible that they can feed on. And as they actually walk through feeding, then they would be caught by some of these specialty ropes that would be very difficult to miss. But we would definitely have to try more than one method. So we also have pitfall traps that we intend to use as well. What do you call that? Pitfall traps. Oh, yeah. So you would dig in these pits and cover them with leaf litter. Yes. And they follow in the hole. Yes. I mean, I notice, again, that's in the states where you have ropes, as you mentioned, but instead of having them trapped in the rope, but the ropes will actually capture them and lift them off the ground. Yes. So I think that's another method. So we'll look at these different methods because, like I said, maybe if you use one method too much, then these pigs, they are pretty smart and they can adapt pretty easily. So then they would realize, oh, this is a trap. And then they would just go around it. They would use other methods. So you'd have to use more than one method to actually get rid of them. And you'll not, of course, encourage bit with poisonous bit and stuff like that, no. No, because poisonous bit can actually affect all the other species of animals within the reserve. I know that you'll have to watch. But then I believe that you all need to come up with, apart from getting the hunters to go out there, like you mentioned, and other innovative ways, can you also go and, apart from using the guns, can you use your tranquilizers to actually bring them down and after-sort them? No, I don't know. Well, to tranquilize it, you would need to be there as well. So it's just like taking them out with a gunshot. Gunshot, the best thing to do is to take them out with a gunshot. Yeah. Would you think it's more expensive, I mean, using tranquilizer or using bullets? Well, you're trying to kill them. So using a bullet, they would dispatch the animal, would get rid of them if it's properly hit. But the tranquilizers, we're only hoping to use them for the individuals that we're hoping to put the telemetry color on, because we would need to detain them that we can put the telemetry color on safely and then allow them to go and rejoin the group so that we can find them through the telemetry color. The project is expected to last over 15 months. 15 months, yes. OK, and it is funded by whom? The St. Lucia National Conservation Fund. OK, all right. Well, any final words from you? Well, we are looking to undertake the Feral Peak Project, and we're hoping that we can get a lot of public interest in it, so we're hoping that persons would, well, we are trying to work with the St. Lucia Tourism Authority as well, hoping that we can actually get some persons to develop some delicacies, some recipes for the wild pig meat. We know that it is a lot more lean than what we actually have domesticated, so we're hoping that persons will get used to the idea and that, well, we can develop the Feral Peak industry and hopefully make better livelihoods for some of these hunters out there. Definitely. So a lot of people like Byron and them, who is going to be hunting, and that's why I go by Byron and get mine, you know. Yes, well, he's one of those persons that we have one day as well. Oh, definitely. Well, Charles, thank you for coming on the program. I wish you success with the project, and I wish you all well, OK? Thank you, sir. You've been watching Agriculture on the Move. Thank you for being in the program. I would like you to continue to, those hunters, go out there now, hunt the Feral Peas, you know? Conchamon, Ibon, it's mangé. That's mangé. If they saw mangé, well, they would kill all those who are in the forest there. They will have to go to mangé plantation, Fama. I'm Philippe Sinise, and goodbye, and see you again.