 Mayor van der steen here older person boring Here Ryan sasma here Jerry Jones Here Marilyn Montemire here David Hoffman here Don's feet on Seven present. Thank you very much. Next. I'd like to ask you to please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance Allegiance Allegiance to the play of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Next we'll go through an introduction of the committee members and staff Dave. You want to start out? Mike van der steen mayor and chair Chad Pellichick planning director Steve so Glowski from the planning department Mayor citizen member On line Alderman Jim boring of the king and district Jerry Jones vice chairman and citizen member Thank you everyone next I need to ask if there is a conflict of interest with any of the items on the agenda See no response then we'll prove go on to the minutes The minutes from our planning Commission meeting on September 15th. They're up for your review They'd entertain a motion Thank you for that motion and support to approve those minutes one last call for any discussion Hearing none all those in favor, please signify by saying I opposed Hi opposed motion passes Under items for discussion and possible action item 3.1 is a conditional use and variance application by quick trip incorporated To construct construct a new quick trip at the northwest corner of South Business Drive and Broadway Avenue the former vantivert property Steve all right. Thanks mayor Troy melisva is here from representing quick trip and This is a property that we've been taking a look at for a couple of different projects now one is the Oscar apartments and recently then Quick trip had come in for this property at the Northwest intersection of Broadway Avenue and South Business Drive We recently rezoned the property from urban residential to urban commercial and now quick trip is in the process of submitting their conditional use Permit to the plan Commission to do the actually Construction of the store. So what we're taking a look at is an 11,000 120 square foot convenience store with attached single bay car wash and attached dumpster enclosure and separate fueling canopies for gas and diesel trucks The proposed service station is 1120 square feet in size and it's a new prototype. I'm sure Troy can speak to that a little bit But they've expanded the retail floor area as well as the kitchen and mechanical space on all the main level with no basement Their intention would be to start construction Approximately the end of 2021 or in the spring of 2022 depending on When the development is ready and all their design documents have been completed once construction starts it takes approximately about four months of construction schedule Quick trip is family owned Wisconsin company and they're vertically integrated which means they're producing Their bottles are manufactured and they manufacture about 80% of what they sell within their store the pizza the hot food breads buns bakery watery Water chips candy and milk They deliver fresh bakery goods commodities and fresh food to their stores daily with their own delivery trucks So this minimizes the number of outside vendors that need to access their facility quick trip also has its own fueling fueling blending facilities for fuel and that helps us control their quality of their fuel products and also Limits that they have more control of when their fueling trucks are coming to and delivering to the site the project is You know, it's a redevelopment of the former van of our site Which will upgrade the property and continue redevelopment of that property and this project is estimated to be about two million dollars With regards to employees, they'll have between about 28 and 35 full and part-time employees and two to eight staff at any given time As far as some of the site Questions or things that they're looking at Quick trip does have a little bit of outdoor selling of merchandising One is an LP storage tank, which they locate at the front of the store They do have some ice storage that they're planning on the two freezers on the east side of the building They do have some firewood that they have between the front door and some softener salt that they have on their canopies So that customers don't have to pick it up from inside the store, but they can pick it up right at the fueling canopies The quick trip has a number of different Signs that they're looking at for the this particular site In working with quick trip. They weren't quite sure of final design but at this point in time they they showed some signage on the building and the fueling pump the canopies and then they do show a freestanding monument sign that would be located at the Southeast corner of the site that would face business drive and Broadway Access to the site if we could just go to the site plan Access to the site is proposed to come from two new ingress egress drives along Broadway Avenue The eastern most driveway close to business drive is going to be a right in and right out only The second drive will be from a shared access on the west end And that is the private drive that serves both quick trip as well as the Oscar apartments So that well that private road goes from basically Broadway Avenue All the way up to 15th Street and Georgia Avenue on the north side Quick trip is proposing to have three ingress egress drives off that private road Staff did question the need for the three and most specifically the south West one that's closest to the intersection of the private road and Broadway Avenue the specific concern is with that drive and With the amount of that this area is going to develop there's likely to be a decent amount of traffic at the intersection of Broadway and Permitting an access drive so close to this intersection could create potential vehicular and pedestrian safety issues based on the amount of vehicles semi trucks and pedestrians so Based on those concerns staff is going to be recommending that the plant commission consider allowing two driveway cuts on that permanent drive and that the applicant could work with staff in Adjusting where those could be located One other item to bring up just in terms of the applicant and maybe this is also with the Private developer for the Oscar is that that is a private road? And so it'd be interesting to know you know what the plan Construction material was for that road because it is going to take a significant amount of traffic with some semi trailers and You know the customers from the quick trip as well as the apartments Lastly the applicant is proposing to share stormwater facility with the Oscar apartment project basically at the Northeast corner of that site When the Oscar development came in the apartment projects They had indicated at that time that they would be working with quick trip to to share a stormwater facility And so that will have to be Constructed in such a fashion that's approved by the engineering department that allows for both to go in there And then quick trip and the developer would or an Oscar apartments Developer would be required to submit a easement agreement that allows for quick trip to have their stormwater You know facility drain off their site and onto the Oscar property Couple of variances just to mention typically The the this is zoned urban commercial and in the urban commercial zone There's typically four signs that are permitted and quick trip is proposing five they are requesting to install a 12 foot tall monument sign and the Height required for that is typically 8 feet. I think that might be further to the bottom All the way down you might have been right Yeah, keep going. We're almost there more you more and Basically that monument sign you can see right there Is like many a couple others in their city and it takes a lot of the materials and colors It's electronic reader board. So that's something that the plan commission is approving as well There are a few canopy signs on both the fueling and the diesel Canopies and then the applicant is proposing to locate their stormwater facility on onto the Oscar property Typically there is The maximum amount of foot candles for lighting at the property line is point five foot candles There's a couple of spots on the property where it goes just over that and those typically are at those access drives So that's from a safety perspective and then they are asking of variance from the locational and buffer yard requirements There's quite a bit of landscaping that they're looking to add to the site And staff was okay with that one item that I didn't include that Maybe want to just kind of verify with the applicant is typically a conditional use permit is good for a year and Based on some of the development concerns quick trip is not sure if they're going to be pulling that permit The fall of next year or potentially the spring of 22 so staff is going to recommend a Variance and a condition that says that the applicant will obtain all their building permits by May 31st 2022 otherwise the conditional and use permit would be null and void So I'm sure the applicants could speak a little bit more to that But other than that staff was recommending any approval of the project subject to the conditions you have before you and I can Answer any questions and the applicants here. Did you want to respond to that question time? Sure good afternoon, Troy Males of a real estate manager with quick trip one six two six oak Street lacrosse, Wisconsin Thanks for the time again appreciate all the time and effort that the city staff has put in working with us on this project We think we've got a good project to offer here be a benefit to the neighborhood and the city Quick trips got a long history in the city and we're looking to continue to be of service and grow as we've seen the last six months people have Kind of focused when we've all been looking for a grocery options Where can you get product and with our our our stores people have found that they can trust and find products being in stock Being clean and being available. So we found great success with that and look forward to Growing here in the future with the city. We're excited excited to be part of the Oscar project This obviously is a good commercial corner at a signalized intersection. We think we can provide a good Product in a clean environment that fits in with the Oscar apartments to the north as well as the existing Neighborhoods to the east to the west to the south and bring a new presence on South Business Drive that we don't have In this area of town today With that we're in full agreement with I think 39 of the 40 conditions that Steve's got on the staff report So we did a good job working To meet those requirements as was mentioned about the three curb cuts I guess if you can go to the traffic truck circulation plan it's listed SP And I just want to explain a little bit of why we've got those three curb cuts and what our logic was in that regard So what this plan is showing you is how quick trips delivery trucks would get into the site so you'll see a truck coming in off of Broadway and then navigating back to the Northeast to utilize either the fuel pumps or to drop fuel at the Underground storage tanks, which are kind of on the eastern side of the site And then that truck would then continue north to circulate back To the west and then head south out the shared access drive Which will be on the quick trip parcel and it'll be paved and built in concrete in Coordination with with the Oscar development. So it'll it'll share as a served act shared access point but it'll be plowed maintained and Concreted on the quick trip parcel and utilized as part of our parcel So that fuel truck would exit back out on the Easter. Excuse me the the westerly drive Back to Broadway Our grocery truck is shown coming in on that easterly drive heading north Making a right-hand turn north of the store And then making another right-hand turn to get to the east facade of the store where the Service door is there's a gray loading zone You can see that truck parked on the east facade Of the building between the store and the diesel fuel and then my understanding is that when that truck would leave It would head straight south Hang a right-hand turn and head back to that south drive that you that you see of three access points And then that truck would turn left to go back out That shared access drive on the eastern side of the lot line Again, it would be one delivery a day and that's quick trips truck that comes so we can control the time So we don't want them there at busy times in the morning or busy times In the evening peak. So that's the primary movement that we see Most folks are going to be coming in off of that In only drive off off Broadway. They'd navigate north towards the pumps North to the parking in the store and then as they're exiting the site They'd head back make a left-hand turn to head back To the west and then south back out that westerly access drive I could see cars coming from the neighborhood to the west making a left-hand turn in that westerly drive and Then getting in that first drive to the south the head back north In line with folks coming in From the east so that's the reason we have that access point there Generally, I would I would agree with Steve that if you could space it farther apart it would make Better flow, but for us, we've got two reasons one is to get that one truck a day grocery delivery out safely And then if we can get folks coming from the neighborhood from the west Making that left-hand turn if they continued north and then made a right-hand turn there'd be a little bit more conflict for them Closer to the store. So that's kind of the the thought we had there if it would make sense We could sign that so that it wasn't an exit for cars if you will coming back out of the site We put some signs that said do not exit other than The truck delivery or do not an exit we could do something like that to make sure we don't have As much congestion at that driveway So that was that was the one difference we had in terms of thoughts of why we had that there Other than that, I think Steve did a good job summarizing We'd have somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 employees working at the site be a multi-million dollar investment and then on the timing the Oscar developer is going to provide the site in a what we call a pad ready condition They're going to do the grading they're going to get the storm water all set up They're going to get the road actually installed and our timing based on our construction then inside the lot lines It's going to be following them So from our standpoint we're a little bit unsure if it would be late in 2021 or if it would be sometime early in 2022 so that would be the reason for our request of the a little bit of an extension on the time frame for the conditional use permit With that I'd be happy to answer any questions So if I may just say Mayor van der Steen has left and Dave Hoffman is going to Resume as the chair. So go ahead Ryan. I guess some questions for you The middle driveway are you seeing it's leaving from the southern most driveway Yeah, what they told me is they added program that they would it would leave the southern driveway What why why wouldn't it just exit the middle driveway? Yeah, I think the tourney movement when they pull out I don't know that there's enough room for them and they thought there might be more congestion between the store Yeah, and the pumps and there'd be there'd be less conflict if they came south We can generally get them coming later in the evening eight ten o'clock when the store isn't quite as busy But if for them it sounded like their movement was easiest to make Coming back straight south and then east. Yeah, that's me west The southern most driveway is way too close to that Broadway Avenue intersection I can see someone going westbound on Broadway They're gonna make a right to go north and someone trying to exit that driveway at the same time That's gonna be a hot little corner. Does that make sense at all? Someone's gonna be traveling westbound on Broadway They'll make a right onto your service road and at the same time someone's gonna be exiting that driveway You can put the signs up there, but that's that's not gonna work I mean putting up with no exit or you know truck only use it's just it's not gonna work Well, yeah I think what we're trying to do is again get folks if they're if someone is coming westbound on Broadway And they're coming into our site They're gonna take that first first driveway to get into the pumps It'll be a nice smooth transition for them. So there wouldn't be a reason for them other than If they're going to the Oscar that probably well, yeah, exactly You got 240 units up there. There's gonna be a lot of cars going that way You're gonna have to make this work with two driveways at that driveways way too close to the intersection. So I Don't I don't see any other way around it. Okay, that's that's kind of that's a real dangerous movement through there It's just it's just too close Again, we can work with staff We still approve something like this. Yeah. Yeah, I mean what basically at right at this point in time there's a condition that talks about allowing the applicant to work with staff in terms of Submitting a site plan The change would probably be a little bit more curbing over there And there might be a little bit of difference from a plan commission perspective along that west side but it really wouldn't change the overall flow and and site development itself so the recommendation at this time was to Approve it with that subject to them working with staff and then if we had any issues we'd bring it back But I can't imagine there there wouldn't be anything that we couldn't work out from that perspective Right. We're happy to work. We've had a good relationship working with you guys and happy to do that, too I just I just wanted to explain the logic of what sure what they had input in terms of how they got to where they got to right And I'm and I just want to stress them with safety pointers And that's gonna be a busy access for especially for the people living there And you know, that's gonna be a big exit point that I can see that being a conflict It really can right and we want it to be safe as well Obviously, we want people to be able to come back and feel safe and welcome. So we're we're with you. Okay, great. Thank you We'll entertain a motion I'll make a motion to approve. I have Dave. I have a question. Yes, Jim Thank you Ryan you were talking about that and I and I agree with you there when you come off of South business drive and take a right on the Broadway and then you're going to take a right to get access to the quick trip About how many about how many feet from Broadway? Would be the turn into quick trip as it as it stands right now Oh, I'm guessing it's probably a good hundred and fifty feet No, so it's not gonna be you're not gonna take a quick right turn off of Off a broad off of business drive on a Broadway and it's not gonna be immediate There's gonna be a little a little time for you to put on your blinker and make your turn in case somebody's right on your rear end Did you have that to mention by any chance? Asking Jim the driveway the right in right out driveway on the south side And then the one on the the west southwest driveway off the access road No, the distance from there or are you asking for the distance between the south? southernmost Southwest driveway on the private road to the two Broadway Street Well, what I'm concerned about is if I'm going down south business drive and I want to take a right on Broadway Where do I where do I get into a quick trip and how far of a drive? Is it once I get off of Broadway to make my turn into quick trip? Yeah, that Ryan you're probably right that it probably is what do you trade any idea on that? I'm guessing it's got to be close to a hundred something feet. Yeah I'm looking at the trunk truck length that's there just on that Diagram and that's probably you know a good I would say probably in that 150 feet range And other factors you've got a large substantial right away on business drive So there's also space off-site farther to the east between the curb line on business drive and the start of this property So it's a pretty good distance I would say I was I was also going to ask on average on average with your locations. How what how often are you visited by the? the fuel tankers and You also try to stagger when they come in at not the busiest hours of the facility No, good question. Yes on average. It depends on how much fuel is sold, but I would say a fair number It's probably of your other day It's probably the average and with that we do have the ability since we do Schedule our own fuel deliveries the ability to control the times that those are done And again those are tried to be done and obviously not the peak business hours from our guests and customer standpoint So we've got the ability to make those come in kind of the less busy times to make sure They can do what they need in a safe manner and provide that product without coming up the work so to speak Just one more for Ryan Ryan those entries those entries and exits to the facility I would imagine those roads are going to be engineered so that there's plenty of room for the For the grocery semis to come in and the fuel tankers to come in Logistically to make their necessary turns From the plans. Do you see any concerns with that or does it look like it's going to be adequate? No, it's it's adequate They're they're showing all the all the turning movements for that access road on the on the plan set So yes, it's it's designed correctly for with wise and I have one more question and that is If I'm renting an apartment at the Oscar and I'm looking out east I'm trying to I'm trying to figure out what I would see Is the Oscar going to be still quite a bit north from where a quick trip is or if I've got an apartment on The first floor of the Oscar and I'm looking east am I going to see Landscaping in trees am I going to see the quick trip? What am I going to see aesthetically that that's going to look nice for the tenants? I think to answer that question from the Oscar So the the quick trip is going to be lower than the Oscar if I recall so you're probably going to be looking down into the back of the building and some of the You know the roof and roof lines and stuff because I think the Topography was such that the apartments were higher than quick trip wasn't it Ryan I drove by there today and that's kind of the idea that I got that the Oscar would kind of be up on that Up on that West West Hill part of the property and quick trip was going to be lower But I didn't know how that was going to be how that was going to be filled in for the quick trip property But aesthetically you think it'll be okay Chad when they look out Yeah, I think so and I think what you know the way the buildings are Located there they're running north and south so the ends of the buildings You know maybe somebody has one window that looks at this But the majority of the windows are going to be on the east and west side of the buildings The units Right so well, that's what I'm that's what I'm referring to if you're looking out of looking out of the east side of your apartment looking east That that's what I was concerned about what what those what those tenants are going to see I think they're gonna look east really and look at the the Tree line along south business drive on the west side. I mean I would I don't remember the floor plan of the Apartments, but I would venture to say there's probably Stairs on the end ends of the Buildings that would face towards quick trips. So I would venture to say that those the people aren't gonna I mean, yeah, they may see it, but they're not gonna it's not gonna be the first thing they see Okay, thank you Jim if you look about on page 18 17 and 18 show kind of some site plans of the Oscar and there's one with an aerial that Doesn't show the quick trip quick trip is located on lot V But you can get an idea as far as where the apartments are and what Chad's talking about in terms of that Self end of those apartments that would be looking in is probably just that thin section because they are facing north and south towards south business drive and then when you go to the actual site plan on page 15 it shows a little bit of landscaping and you can see on the north side of that site plan Typically the city has what's referred to as a buffer yard requirement, which whenever a commercial property Is adjacent or shares a common lot line with the residential property they have to have what's referred to as a buffer yard requirement and typically what that means is there's Additional landscaping and things of that nature from a point perspective that they have to put in more So when you take a look at that landscape plan You can see that the north and kind of northeast corners of the quick trip site have a lot more heavier Landscaping to try to deal with that buffering of that commercial development to that residential development Yeah, when I was looking at over when I was looking at over earlier Earlier today, I was glad to see that there's going to be additional landscaping rather than a fence I think if the land is well It'll be a lot more appealing than a fence That was one of the things we talked with quick trip about and instead of having a fence We agreed and they agreed that we just rather have more Landscaping to kind of service as a green offense instead of just a hard hardscape fence structure Right. Yeah, it's like to clarify something Troy to is I believe that first driveway to the east out to the east office Broadway, I believe that's a right in only. I don't have the traffic study in front of me So I just like to make up. I like to make a note whatever the traffic study states That's a that's what we're gonna have to do, but I'm pretty sure it's a right in only correct That's what we've got. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's yeah that's what we we have it as a right in right out and We had spoken about that and that is a condition too, okay, but I'm not I'm not sure in the right out I believe it's just a right in oh, yeah Okay, okay, so then if that's the case I would just need to amend Give me one second here Condition number 27 presently says right in right out that should just be right in mm-hmm. Okay Just two points one to clarify Steve I apologize if you've gone over this already with the car wash facing the north toward the apartments Do we have a time frame that the car wash will be open and closed and where are the vacuum? Right now there is no specific condition that indicates a specific time frame. I Know I know that I think By festival foods we had some issues and I think there was a time frame there. I can't I don't recall The other ones do not have it. So I had not put a specific condition in terms of car wash hours of operation Troy any idea what that typically is I mean usually we've often most often are 24 so 20 for the car wash here I think we're gonna have commercial to the west of us and as you saw on the plan the apartments are pretty far to the north I think as long as we comply with noise ordinances most type of things I think we should 24 be a lot is what you're after correct Yeah, so Jerry what they're after in this particular is to be able to operate at 24 seven And I had I did not put anything in there other than there is just a general condition That states the number for the car wash facility will meet all zoning requirements including but not limited to noise vibration Hazards material. So so if there was safe some complaints then at that point in time We'd have to work with quick trip on addressing those Okay, that's fine That's and you hit on the point that I was making we had that issue with the one over a festival because they were a Little closer, but I just wanted to get that on the record that we aren't we aren't restricting them at all And I'm fine with that and with that I'd like to make a motion to prove Subjective staff recommendations as amended I'll second Older person born I Ryan Jerry Jones I Marilyn Montemire David Huffman Don's feet on six eyes Thank you All right, thanks mr. Chairman So we have Ross Warner here from Warner Homes who is doing The first subdivision and sometime in the city of Sheboygan so in February The Werners had come in with a preliminary plat for the Partick Stonebrook addition number one and This is a hundred thirty two lots subdivision that they indicated would be in phases What we're taking a look at today is the final plat for phase one which will include 78 lots And that's lots 14 through 91 the park in both stormwater ponds and the initial phase would include both Entrances and install the main utilities and stormwater infrastructure that would support the subsequent phases 35 of the lots are to be mixed residential and again mixed resident your mixed residential zone permits single family and two family It's likely that you may see 23 of those lots with two families and possibly 12 Family but all 35 have the ability to be two family lots and then 43 lots that are zone suburban residential So those will be single family lots The homes will be similar to what you see in the adjacent subdivisions Which is the Sombra crossing as well as Romer ponds to the south and there's a number of different plans that are in your packets that shows typical types of layouts for The types of homes that Werner plans on Constructing in that subdivision And I can let Ross speak to those They well eventually have some Temporary signage on the site and those would be 232 square foot signs that would likely be printed on wood posts just advertising the Subdivision and then lastly they are asking for one variance and that variance is to They will not be constructing it. We've we've discussed this in the past, but they won't be Constructing a typical street section with curb gutter and gutter curb gutter and sidewalk in this particular Subdivision it'll be done with pavement with a marked street path with drainage ditch And only the main street stonebook drive and rimrock road will have an on-street 4-foot wide pedestrian bike path that will be located on each side of the road So staff was recommending approval of the proposals subject to the conditions that are you have and I can answer any questions and the applicants here Ross would you like to add add something? Thank you, Steve. I think you did a very good job of summarizing the development I'm working on for quite a while and we're looking forward to Being able to put this, you know new development into the city. I think that everyone knows there's a need for more residential Lots in the city and this would certainly help fill that need for a couple years here I Did want to comment on the variance so we're looking for a variance from the tree Specifically yeah, so looking at that road cross-section. You're gonna have The road the ditch and the standard city ordinance does require a tree easement next to the road right away So we do have a six-foot wide or road right away to begin with and talking with the city staff Putting the trees after the ditch like that was not a something they would desire to plant or maintain so the trees would be at the Planting maintained by the individual homeowners so that was the request for the variance was to Not have an eight foot trees meant on each side of the road right away and Any questions feel free to let me know Any questions from the Commission? Yes, Jim. I have a couple go ahead Thank you First of all, I I just wanted to mention that This is going to be an excellent addition to my district 10 word 23 Looking at the the photographs of the proposed houses there. They all look they all look beautiful and And this is also going to add a lot of property tax base to the city, which is desperately needed So that we can continue to provide the services that help to provide the services that we do for the citizens I did have one question for mr. Warner and that is what would be the price point of the homes, you know Starting on the low end to the upper end Yeah, so we think we could probably get homes potentially down to the 250 with a lot fully built and developed homes would generally go a bit higher than that's what we're finding we're building but I'm Looking at the base starting point 250 to 300 would be realistic And I would expect some homes to be approaching easily half million dollars with new construction nowadays So to answer the question on overall I'll just say overall this would probably add, you know, we estimate around 50 million in tax base of the city up to potentially So it should be a nice addition to the city Excellent Mr. Chairman I'd like to make a motion to approve subject to staffer staff conditions Sure mayor van der steen is not here older person born Hi, Ryan sasma. Hi Jerry Jones. Hi, Marilyn Montemire. Hi, Dave Hoffman. Hi Don's feet on six eyes Motion passes Thank you very much and good luck with the project. This sounds great Okay, and item number four our next meeting will be October 13th of the year Can I have a motion to adjourn Jerry? second We have a motion to it and second to adjourn all in favor Motion passes Motion passes. Thank you all