 All right, you're all set. Thanks, Rob. Welcome to the Amherst Design Review Board meeting of February 26, 2024. My name is Eric Vickus, and as the chair of the Amherst Design Review Board, I'm calling this meeting to order at 5.02 p.m. The meeting is being recorded and will be made available via the town of Amherst YouTube channel in minutes or being taken. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended again by the chapter 2 of the acts of 2023, this meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. A hyperlink to the hearing will be posted on the town's online calendar. Board members, I'll take roll call and when I say your name, let me know you're here, and we'll start with Catherine Porter. Present. And Lindsay Schnarr. Present. Karen Winter. Present. Pat Ock is not with us this evening, and Eric is with us. Board members, if technical issues arise, we may need to pause temporarily to fix the problem and then continue the meeting. If the discussion needs to pause, it will be noted in the minutes. Please use the raise hand function to ask a question or make a comment. I'll see your request and call on you to speak. After speaking, remember to read me yourself. The general public comment period item is reserved for public comment regarding items that are not on tonight's agenda. Please be aware that the board will not respond to comments during the general public comment period. Public comment could also be heard at other times during the meeting when deemed appropriate. Please indicate that you wish to make a comment by clicking the raise hand button when a public comment is solicited. If you've joined the Zoom meeting using a telephone, please indicate that you wish to make a comment by pressing star nine on your phone. When called on, please identify yourself by stating your full name and address and put yourself back into mute when finished speaking. Residents can express their views for up to three minutes or at the discretion of the chair. If a speaker does not comply with these guidelines or exceeds their allotted time, their participation will be disconnected from the meeting. Tonight's agenda includes the following. So we have DRB FY 2024, number 12, William Ravis to replace existing signage, number 13, Paul Tupa, Uptown Tap and Grill, again new signage. 2020 for item 14, Jason Yew from 110 Tea House, again new signage. And 2024-15, Raquel Zelyandia, Takaria Del Pueblo, again signage. 2024-16, Town of Amherst North Clomman has been postponed to a future meeting. We'll then have approval of January 29th meeting minutes. A general public comment period, which I propose to move up on the agenda to before our reviews, if possible, and then other business. So quick poll about whether it's a, do I have approval to shift the general public comment period to before we do our reviews? Yes. Thanks. And then with regards to other business, if we have time and energy, who knows after a bunch of reviews, but if we have time and energy, we might have an initial conversation about the possibility of the board revisiting the design review board standards. But we can address that when we get to it. Is there any other business to add to the agenda? That's it. Okay. Great. So in that case, let's start with item 12, if there's somebody here from William Ravis or Archer Signs. Well, Erica, did you want to do general public commentaries? Yes, I was just cooking along. Yeah. All right. So anybody just like to join us. So if anybody in attendance in the public would wish to speak during a general public comment period, please indicate by either use the raise hand function or by pressing star nine if you call it into the meeting today. I guess we'll give people a few minutes to muster up the courage. I'm seeing mostly applicants in the attendees. So I, I think they might want to wait to speak during their presentations. I would say Erica, it's safe to move on to the first agenda item at this point. If we notice that additional members of the public have joined us throughout, I might, we might then offer another opportunity to speak later on. Okay. Let's, let's move on then. Item 12. All right. So I believe in attendance we have Mr. Archer. So I'm going to promote him to panelists. Hello and welcome. All right. Thanks. We're happy you're here. If you wouldn't mind walking us through your proposal. Sure. That'd be great. And would you like to share your screen to show images or would you like me to do that on your behalf? You do that. I'm not cool enough to know how to do that. So I'm going to, I'll, if you want to, yeah, if you want to share the screen for, yeah, there we go. Yeah. And then you can tell me when to scroll or what have you. Well, we can start with the first, the first page there. That's, that's perfect. So the building as it sits now has two existing signs, one here, one on the other side. There's two different elevations. We're replacing those signs with new signs. These signs have internally illuminated channel letters as the proposed. So only the letters illuminate at night. And the existing signs will be removed and discarded. So it's, it's still a real estate office. They're just, this is the William Ravis standard sign that we install for them. In most of their offices. And, and then if you want to, there's an existing freestanding sign that we're proposing to remove and replace as well. So the existing one is sort of a cantilever, really a big cantilevered sign. It's sort of odd because it's such a large cantilevered sign. So we're replacing that with the same square footage as a monument style sign. So, and this would also be internally illuminated, but only the letters would illuminate at night. All the blue that you see in all of these signs is opaque. It does not light. It's only the letters that illuminate with internal illumination in all cases. That's it. Okay. So the location of the second surface mounted sign is, that should be, there should be another page with that in there. Oh yeah. There we are. Yep, there we are. And there's existing signs, there's existing signs there now. And this building is on the corner of triangle and prey streets. You know, I'm not, I'm not terribly familiar with the area. I'm not sure of the interception. I believe you're, I believe you're correct, Erica. I think it's near triangle street on the other end of prey street where it kind of meets. I think the building's like on that corner. Let's see. Yeah, right there. Yeah. Trying to drag the little guy. Oh, we're close. Oh, there we are. That looks like it. Yeah. Back just one step and you would see it perfectly. Okay, so there's the freestanding sign. Yeah. So the existing freestanding sign. And then, so one sign's on the door on prey and one sign is on triangle? No, I think it's the flip side of the building. So if you go down this, the not triangle street, but the side street there, you'll see one of them. Whoops. Sorry. Yeah. Okay. So one over the door on prey street. Yeah. Yeah. If you, if you zoom around, yeah. See, there's one there. And then there's one on the flip side of the building. When you say the flip side, do you mean? Well, like it faces the parking lot on the opposite side. Okay. All right. So the two short ends of the building? That's correct. Yep. Okay. Thank you. All right. I'll go back to the PDF. I have one concern and that is with the size of the monument sign. Rob, I wonder if you can help us with the confirmation of this, but I thought that the code said 25 square feet maximum for a freestanding sign in the BG. And this thing is huge. It's eight feet, eight inches by eight feet. I'm going to verify that really quickly. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Maybe. I was thinking that the sign was just the blue portion of the sign that the white portion is really just a stanchion to get it up off the ground. So I don't know if you're counting that as sign or not. Well, I am because it's painted opaque white. I think that if you propose something on two legs, it might be different. Like if there was an open structure below. But I think the whole thing is reading as a solid surface. Well, we do have, we do have a, I call it sign option two in their sign program that does have a double post sign. And although Rob doesn't have it, I went ahead today and just for giggles, I put together a layout of that option. Rob doesn't have it, but I can show it. I wish I could share my screen. I probably, I'd have to log on and I could take a snapshot of it and try and share my screen if you wanted to see that. If that's an issue. That may be helpful. While Rob's looking that up, why don't I turn to the rest of the board members and ask for comments, perhaps on the package as a whole or other other questions. Anybody on the board members? Lindsay, go ahead. Yeah, I think that that's my primary comment concern. I think that the sign is, is legible and it's, if it's consistent with the logo and other locations, then that makes sense. And I think it'll work well to have the illumination of the white lettering, but that white base feels really heavy and kind of kind of larger and more obstructing than it needs to. So I think if that could reduce down to just some posts or a post, that would be great. My only other comment is about if there's an interest in having any kind of subtext of what this business provides might be helpful so that people know, you know, what this business is, if they're not familiar with the logo. They used to do that. They did away with the tagline years ago, so they just use William Ravis and they rely on their marketing folks to make sure that digitally they're known, but they're a large enough outfit that most people do, at least in this neck of the woods. William Ravis is pretty significant, you know, compared to Colwell Banker and, you know, some pretty large. They're compared to other large real estate brokers. I've never personally heard of them. That doesn't mean any. Never heard of them. Clearly, but it's just, you know, it's just a comment worth considering, perhaps. Sure. You don't know. It might improve their appeal. Catherine, I saw your hand, but I'm wondering if Rob has something to report back. If you don't mind, I'll let him pop in and then shift to you. So I'll be quick. So in the BG zoning district where this is located, they're allowed to have a maximum freestanding sign no higher than 10 feet off the ground and maximum size of 25 square feet. So the only thing is the part where it says William Ravis can't be bigger than 25 square feet, but also it's tough because it seems the white part could technically be considered part of the structure. But when you think about it also kind of looks like it's part of the sign too. So it's really kind of like a weird gray area in terms of kind of establishing whether it's a structural part of the sign or whether you can consider it part of that 25 square feet. So I don't know. I don't know how board members feel about this particular design, but if you want him to redesign and then come back for further review, that's probably going to be required. But I would say yes, 10 feet tall, 25 square feet for the actual sign itself. All right. Thanks for that. Thanks for that, Rob. I appreciate that you took the time to look that up for us. Catherine and then Karen? Sure. Well, I've driven by that sign many times. I was totally shocked. I didn't know what happened to D.H. Jones, but if they, and I would agree with Lindsay, might be who the company to identify themselves. But if they feel they have the, I don't know what should I say, the people already know, then that's up to them. I like the color. I thought it was very refreshing. And even the sign they have there now seemed a little big, and that's just the temporary sign. So I would certainly encourage a smaller sign because what we're seeing here looks, you know, it looks awkward. And yeah, I've, so I pretty much agreeing with everything everybody else said, but I do like the color. Very refreshing from what we've seen before. Thanks, Catherine. Karen, go ahead. I really have nothing to add because I completely agree. I think that this white, large white length board there is really unappealing and kind of obtrusive compared to the sign, which is just hanging from the post. I think it is a lovely color. It's nice that it's so simple. And it might be that this is so well known, but it sounds like from the, from the design review board, none of us have heard of it. So I agree a little information, I think, would be welcome and would maybe make this a little bit more elegant. So I would like to see a different design for this sign. Well, I don't think they're going to change their, they've got this logo at about 250 locations. They would prefer not having a tagline if that would be okay. I understand what you're all are saying, but I know that they're trying to get away from the tagline. So I don't think they would prefer not to do that if that is all right. Yeah, our intention is not to change, not to ask them to change their logo if this is something that is appearing in multiple places. It's just some... Oh yeah, they've got hundreds of locations from Florida all the way to, well, north into far into Massachusetts. So I think I do have, as I mentioned before, I have a, if I can, if I share my screen, I took a photo of the drawing that I have in front of me. And I can show that to you all. They do have a secondary option that you all might like more. Okay, thanks. I don't, I'm going to try to do that. I apologize in advance because I still, I don't see any option. Oh, share. Wait a minute. Yeah. Oh, photos. It says I can share a photo. Look at that. Okay. Wow. All right. Okay. Can everyone see that? Yep. It's sideways, but we can see it. All right. Okay. I mean, maybe I can, maybe I can, let's see. But I think we got the idea here and it's the same blue sign, but now in lieu of... Right. The base is gone. It has, it has a tiered post on either side with a with a topper, you know, a fabricated header. It's really the same header as that's on the monument, but the big white base is sort of gone and there's a post on either side and there's a narrow post and then there's a trim work and a wider post. It's attractive. And we use this when this subject comes up. This is, this is sort of what we try to divert to as an option to make it feel lighter. I feel this is an improvement. Yes, definitely an improvement. Lindsay, you have your hand. And I can't quite see what is the overall height? Eight feet. And what's the existing height? Do we know of the... To the top of the post is about 10 feet. Okay. So the white horizontal piece that of the existing is about eight feet, maybe nine feet? The vertical, the vertical post that there is about 10 feet. Probably about the horizontal is probably the... Oh, horizontal. Yeah, the horizontal is probably about... Maybe. This straddles a little bit. Why we're a little shorter. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I think my only... I think this is a vast improvement as well. My only comment might be if this is a location where there may be more than one business and there may be another sign panel below, that we would just want to perhaps space the area between the bottom of the William Ray this sign and the band that goes around the post, that little detail. Low enough so that there's space for another sign. I don't know if that's the intention or not. Yeah, there's no... I don't think so. Yeah, there's no plans to have another sign there. We have had that scenario in the past, but it's very few. And we always will... We design it that way from the beginning. There's no plans to have another sign under that at any time that I'm aware of. I guess without in mind, it still feels a little tall to me, but I'm curious what... Maybe it could come down a bit. It just feels pretty high off the ground, but I'm curious what... Yeah. We were just trying to keep... The existing one is even higher. So I was trying to maintain close to the even lower actually than the horizontal post is now. I understand what you mean because their logo is really less square than Jones. So it's lower to... Hold on one second. I'm sorry. I sit on the ZBA in my town where I live and I'm getting a phone call from the chairman. Let me send a voice mail. Okay. Sorry about that. Maybe it could come down maybe up to a foot, depending on where that lands in and maybe feel a little bit more in scale with the negative space. I'm very happy to see the negative space below the opening, but it feels like maybe it just has a little more height than it needs to my eye. That's all. Well, we could do that. We could also bring the base post up taller, which might help as well, just to decrease some of the space in between the detail on the post and the bottom of the sign. We're already two feet lower than what's there. Another foot might only be... I'm trying to get the lettering up as high as possible for visibility. There's cars on one side. So that's the reason that it is, but I could bring the post up a little bit. Another foot or foot, I mean, 10 inches or so to get rid of some of the space between the detail and the bottom of the sign. Or we could make the blue area of the sign larger, but I think that it's two and a half by eight. So what is that 16 for? What is that 20 square feet or so? So we could make the blue a little taller as well. What about just maybe a six inch? I know I'm splitting hairs, but we're splitting feet, but maybe a six inch drop that I think just some increment that maybe just gives it a little bit. I don't think six inches would matter. I don't think six inches would probably be okay. All right. So the suggestion here is that this currently, that dimension, Brian, is eight feet. Is that right? What I've just... I'm trying to indicate on the screen. Yeah, that's exactly right. You're proposing that this detail might be moved up. So I think kind of I'm hearing, Lindsay, maybe the suggestion is going to take the six inches out of... Yes. That zone. That's yeah, yeah, that's what I'm getting to. So we would leave the details where they are in that case and just drop it six inches. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that that starts to work. Brian, is this a legacy hand raised or a new one? Oh, legacy. Sorry. Okay. It's a hard thing to remember. Yeah. And I know that it's in a planter box as well in that during some of the time, some of that space underneath is going to be, I hope they'll maintain that and filled with plants. So... Yeah, as far as I know, I mean, they do a pretty good job there. That's a really attractive... Yeah, I think it's a really attractive sign. I think I second my colleagues here in appreciating the color scheme. And I also think that the lighting only the lettering on the building is a really nice feature. Okay, great. Yeah. So, yeah, we can lower it six inches. I can make that note. And then I just, I do have a comment though, the proposed square footage I'm showing on this drawing, I think it was a cut and paste error, but it says 11.11 square feet. It's actually 30 inches by eight feet. So what is that, 20 square feet? So I just, it's just a... I mean, the dimensions are shown on the drawing, but I just wanted to clear that up because I see the typo. That's all. Appreciate that. Thank you. DRB members, we didn't talk too much of... There weren't any specific recommendations for the signage on the building itself. I just want to make sure that nobody has any comments there. And if not, maybe we could move forward with an official recommendation, Rob. So I just want to ask a clarifying question. So it seems that out of all three of the signs, the only recommendation that DRB has is to lower that top post above the detail by six inches. Believe the detail where it is on the posts. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. So was there anything else I might have missed besides that one recommendation? I think just choosing this version versus the over the first version that was presented. Okay. And then can I also ask Brian, one thing I recommend after this meeting tonight, when you get the chance, could you send me an updated rendering that shows that new design? And then with the change that we suggested here tonight, of lowering that top part by six inches. And then once you send that to me, I could send my document that I need to to Jennifer Mullins who would issue the sign permit. And then you would be all set from there. Okay. Yeah. I'll send that to you tomorrow. I'll make those changes and I'll send you the updated rendering. And then you can just discard the one with the base. And that's it. Yeah. I'm really glad you had something handy. Well, I was thinking about it as the day went on. And I know that in smaller towns, I just, it's come up, but not every time. But and I kind of felt like it was heavy as well. But the customer sort of drives me some, you know, and they tell me, this is their number one. That's what they want. But, you know, I kind of agree with everyone. So that's why I put it together. Because I felt these, I felt the same way, but I have to ask, you know. Great. All right. So before you leave, could I entertain? For now, I had a question. Oh, sorry. I've noticed one or two for sale signs around now with this company. Could you remind us what they, because that's what we're going to start to see every place. Is it just simply the sign that gives the company's name? I can't remember. Did it say something like for sale? What are those smaller signs that you put on people's yard? Well, I don't know because we don't provide those sign types for William Ravis. Yeah. They have a, well, you know, what it is, is that those for sale signs, most realtors, they buy them for pennies online. And yeah, it's really not something local companies can compete with. So we just don't get that business from any of our real estate office customers. So I couldn't tell you. I don't know what they use for those signs, unfortunately. But, you know, I guess certainly. Yeah, I don't. So Rob, we don't as a board or as a town have anything to do with the for sale signs that relate to the company then. Is that what? No. Most of the time, if those signs comply with the zoning bylaws, most of the time, they don't even need a permit anyways, like a for sale signs kind of exempt from that. This sign that we're approving tonight needs a sign permit because of its size and the fact that it's on commercial property. Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah, we'll see them around town. I've noticed them already. The blue ones, there is a blue and white sign. And they're a pretty reasonable company. I mean, if there's something about what they're putting out that you're not crazy about, you know, you could always just stop in there and say, Hey, listen, you know, do you mind? You know, they're pretty, pretty reasonable people. Yeah. Okay. You know, they want to be good neighbors. All right. So could I entertain a motion to approve with the recommendations that Rob just reiterated for us? I move that we approve this plan with the recommendations that we have discussed related to the sign in the front of the building. Thank you. Rob, the rest. I can't second. Thank you. Discussion. Sorry. All those in favor, please say, I raise your hand. That's unanimous. Thank you very much for your time tonight. No problem. Thank you everyone. Have a great night. You too. Take care. All right. Up next is item 13, applicant Paul Tupa for 104 North Pleasant Street, which is the new uptown tap and grill. All right. Mr. Tupa just got a panelist's invite and we just have to wait for him to accept it. Hi, Mr. Tupa. Are you there? I am. I'm here. I think you can hear me. We can hear you. We can't see you, but we can hear you just fine. Let's try, man. I'm trying. All right. There you are. Hi. Welcome. Glad you're here. Thank you. We'd love for you to walk us through your proposal and you're welcome to share your screen or I could do it on your behalf with the documents that you submitted. Yeah. If you could do it from there, that would be great. All right. I'm not so technically answers everybody else. Okay. So we've got your proposal application document and this image. Yes. So we've taken over Amherst Burger Company with Barry Roberts approval and everything. We're just basically doing identical signs that have been up and have already been used. We're just changing the name and going black and white. So it's very basic to everything that was already there or that's there right now. So that's referring to the two signs on the upper facia of the building and some signage on the glass. Yeah. Yeah, long time. Is that a vinyl? Vinyl, yes. I don't know if we'll keep that with depending on how much light and everything comes in. We'll see it because some people have told us that it kind of blocks a lighting after we kind of went through it. So we want to put it there so people can see us, but we'll see how it goes. All right. Thanks. Just the vinyl part. Just the vinyl. Okay. All right. Thank you. Lindsay, I can see your hand. Go ahead, please. Well, I'm excited to see that there is a new business coming into the space. I hope it does well. Is the main entrance the door nearest the logo on the glass? Yes. Yep. Okay. Because that has moved around in previous, our occupation of that building. So I think that, you know, I think that this pretty clearly marks that, but that has been something that we've kind of addressed in the past. It's like how did, and it's a little bit of a storefront, you know, because you've got those two doors. So I don't know. I don't know why we were talking, discussing it today. I'm like, where, why they would have it up top with a host stand and everything else, just functionally, you don't want to walk into that space. When the downstairs where that other, where we're using the main entrance, there's like a whole vest of yule and everything there. So I didn't, we couldn't under, understand that. So yeah, that will be the main entrance to the restaurant. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I think it's really clearly marked, but just as a word of warning, like if you have any kind of like open sign, I don't know, just making sure that you kind of mean, lead people in that direction. Would the other door just be an egress only door? Egress only. Yep. Is there a handle on that currently? There is a handle on the outside. Yes. So that could be worth considering removing the handle from the outside so that it doesn't allow people to try to come in that way. That's just a thought for practicality. Yep. Unless you need it for servers, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah, if we use the outside door patio. I mean, I think that the white pops on the glass, I guess one alternative could be there have been a number of other locations that have done the inverse along that strip of having like the black background with the lighter lettering or white lettering. And given that there's kind of an off-white background of the fascia or the signage board behind, you know, we have recommended in the past that the black on white gets inverted to a white on black that stretches, you know, you're just going to paint the panel behind that like recessed panel and then it just becomes kind of a black field with the white lettering, which also kind of keeps with the same color palette and pops with the contrast. But yeah. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I think just the problem with that is because it's Miss Saigon and the Barber Shop, the whole kind of strip is that one color that Barry has it painted. So it's if we painted just of our section black behind it, I think that would. Isn't it already? It actually is already because we had a conversation with. Yeah, it is already black. That's why I shifted to the Google map here. It's hard to see through the trees, but it is already black. Oh, okay. So I think with that, so if you did the white on the black, you know, that's certainly with the black lettering, that's one way like you've have it shown. I think it could also be interesting to look at the inverse of just having the black signage kind of disappear into the black paint of the panel behind and let the white of the lettering pop from there. And you could consider the same with the window logo where you have rather than having a field of white with the black, you could just have white or black with white kind of like outline just to kind of minimize the amount of obstruction of the signage on that glass. I'm less concerned about that. I think it is something to consider for the experience inside. Like if you have tables there, it might be a little bit uncomfortable for someone to just have like a giant kind of like block in their view paint. So I think it's worth considering from the interior experience, depending on if you have seating there, but I'm more interested in maybe kind of like what you could do to create less of a like sign on that signage board and more of kind of just like the letters come out with the inversion. Would anybody else care to share a comment? Yeah, I find my hand here. As I look at it now, it looks so grand, but if you're saying that we can confirm that the fascia is black, that makes it very much different in terms of the dynamics of the appeal to me of the sign. And it looks like there's no interest or attempt to add another color in there or do something to make it pop a bit. But if the lettering could be on a black fascia, then I think it makes it much more appealing. Right now it looks and it looks sort of temporary. So maybe the news is good that there's black background. And Catherine, may I ask you to clarify, are you in favor of the what letters on a white background on a black fascia? Yeah. Well, whatever you had originally proposed, the black fascia to me is the key to Yeah, so just swap, invert the color. And, Karen? Yes, I agree too. I think that would make it a lot more elegant and still very visible. I think it would be a best improvement. I like that idea a lot. Yeah, I think you've got a unanimous support for that particular move. And I also appreciate Lindsay's suggestion about the window vinyl. If you had the text in white, and then if you wanted to maintain the oval, if that's important part of your identity, that that could be a border rather than a field. Yeah. That seems, it does seem valuable for the sense of the inside, right? Because that field doesn't look nearly as interesting from the back side of the window. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's where the host location will be behind there. So people are looking in through the window and it gives them more visibility in. Like I said before, even if it doesn't work out, like I said, because of the light and everything else looking into, because some of these storefronts get so dark, you can't tell if places are open because of when it's so bright outside. And then I also just wanted, and this is probably just a mock-up issue, like with the image here, but I do want to make sure that the sign sits within the border pieces that kind of frame the fascia. There's a slim line at the top and a slim line at the bottom. And this one seems to be within those lines, and this one's kind of spanning over it. They should both be the same and within that border. Yep. Okay. Catherine and Karen, your hands are up and I just want to make sure that you have another comment or thanks. Are there any additional comments for Mr. Tupa? Okay. Rob, would you mind? You do such a nice job of summarizing our comments for us. Yeah, sure. So it seems like the board, I'm getting the impression that you're okay with moving forward approving this one tonight, but you recommend to the applicant that they inverse the coloring on the sign. So do the white lettering on the black fascia for those two top signs, and then for that window sign, do like a white border, black backgrounds, but then white lettering. So pretty much inverse color on that. And those are the only two I really have. Yeah. I don't think I'm missing anything. I think I'd clarify with regards to the window vinyl, white border, no background. Oh, no background. Okay. Yep. So transparent background. And then I do want to ask Paul. So after this meeting tonight, when you can, would it be possible to possibly update the coloring on this mock-up or get like another mock-up to send to us before you get your sign permit? Yeah. Yeah, we can have them redo it. Okay. Just because I do send Jennifer Mullins the DRB's approval and she needs that order to issue a sign permit. Good. Yeah. And the fascia's already been painted black for you, so that part is... Yep. That's probably the most expensive part right there is painting the whole fascia. Yeah, they did a really nice job. All right. So then, motion to approve with recommendations. I move to approve with recommendations. I second. All right. Great. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Thank you very much. That's a unanimous vote. When are you planning to open? Thanks. We were shooting for Thursday, but it looks like probably Monday, because we have a little... They're putting in a new piece of it, and so I can figure out all that with the old building. That's exciting. We've got Amherst public house open already. That's great. Well, congratulations on the new business. Can't wait. Thanks. Best of luck. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much. Have a good night. You too. Two down. Here we go. We're cooking. That's great. All right. So, the next one, item 14, 10-1 tea house. So, oh, there is a Jason's attendance. I saw two Jason's, but the Jason who wants to be promoted raised their hands. Mr. Yu is going to be on to give their presentation. Hello. Hello, Mr. Yu. Welcome. Glad you're here. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Can you hear us? Perfect. Yes. All right. So, my name is Jason. Yeah, I'm the owner of the 10-1 tea house. We do have seven locations near the Boston area. And then this location is previous VV bubble tea. It's actually my first bubble tea shop, which is a franchise. And then now I created my own brand. So, I'm rebranding it to my own brand. So, we are changing the existing sign and to my new name, the new brand. Great. That's exciting. Do you want to share your screen or should I share your documents on your behalf? Can you please share the documents? Sure. So, this is your application. And then we have this multi-page. So, if you want to walk us through your proposal. Yeah. So, the first one is the big sign on the side of the building. If you take it on the second page. Yeah. Here. So, previously is the bookstore sign and then the VV bubble tea sign. Oops. They just got disconnected. Oh, we still have you. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, the landlord agreed to let me use the bookstores, like the space for the bookstore sign and then to have like the big sign because before the VV sign is not very appearing. Like a lot of people don't know where we are. So, and then he's giving us like the big space. So, we are taking over the bookstore sign. So, turning to the long sign. Yeah. And then the second next picture. If you can see, go to the next page. Yeah. And then the blade sign is at the same location. And then it just changed to the 10-1 tea house. And then the sign in the back is for like, says the big VV1 change to the squirrel one. Okay. And these are lit. They're illuminated. So, it's internal luminaries. So, only the letter, it will illuminate. Oh, the black will be say the black. Will the squirrel light up? That's adorable, by the way. Oh, yes. Yes, it will. Yeah. All right. So, Erica, just from doing some quick research on the zoning bylaw again. So, for any signs that are fixed to or suspended from a building, they can't be... So, I guess the signs combined cannot exceed 10% of the area of that whole wall. And just from looking at those images, it seems like he's well within that 10%. I agree. Because that facade's pretty big. I believe it spans multiple floors. Yeah. I think they're in a fine shape there. Thank you. Fine shape. Yep. No problem. And then also the arrow with the hand pointing down, that's already on the building, right? Yeah, that was from... I think it's installed by the bookstore. I think the lendo is going to take it off because the bookstore already moved out. Okay. It fits your color scheme. Yeah. All right. DRB members, if you have any questions or comments for us for you. Just a minute here. Get my hand. Go ahead, don't worry about the hand. Just remember to take it down. Just looking at the sign on the side of it, visually it's so much more attractive than those two signs that are there now. It's such an improvement. I could not have any word of criticism about it. And I do notice that the squirrel doesn't... It's not there, but the squirrel appears as sort of a little extra on the other two signs. But to me, this has done Amherst a favor to have one really good looking sign there. So take my hand down. Thank you. Okay. Karen or Lindsay? Go ahead, Karen. I totally agree. It's kind of amazing how when I let somebody else speak, they speak exactly my mind. It's very elegant. It's very visually noticeable, but very refined and attractive. Congratulations. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, I agree. This is a really nice clean logo and sign. I love the blade sign over the door and the additional sign at the brick wall that we're looking at there. My only question and concern is on the previous image over the window. So is this sign... Is this there currently? The sign? No, we haven't changed the sign yet. Okay. Right now, currently, it's still the bookstore and then the Vee Vee bubble tea. Okay. So this can still... You have not purchased this yet? We... I think the factory is like... Because we was going to try to join the design review board last month, but then somehow we got into this month. So I think they got my order last month because it takes a long time to make the sign for this kind of size. Okay. I mean, I think if it's already in fabrication, it's not... It's not something that I would... I feel strongly enough that I think we need to adjust, but I am aware... And maybe this is just a Photoshop thing, but I think it wants to be the full length of that window opening. It looks like it's just shy of it by about six inches or eight inches on the right side where Erica's cursor is. You see that? Okay. So hopefully you measured the window opening and used that dimension. That would be my recommendation. My only other recommendation, other than I like the idea of adding the squirrel to the signage just because it's a nice picture, but my only other recommendation might be to... It feels like the space on the left and right side are pretty compressed compared to the space vertically. And so it might be nice to give a little more width of black on each side to balance out the amount of space you have top and bottom. And I would even say it could be fun to have the big oval that's probably even more expensive, but if cost weren't a factor, that would be something that I thought could be kind of playful, given that your other signs have that oval. But the main thing I would say is having the length reach... Either be centered on the window if it's not the full length, or if it is the full length, then that would be ideal. And then if you do have the option to give a little more space to the sides, that would be, I think, helpful to balance it out. Otherwise, I think... Okay. Yes, it's kind of two tiers of recommendations because I wrote down exactly the same thing that you said. Tier one, recommendation one is if it's not too late to change the order. Okay. I need to make sure that the side... The length of the sign matches the length of the window and to provide the additional black border on the ends. Sure. So a couple more inches on both sides, so they can add it. Yeah. And if it is too late, I think we all agree that this is a lovely sign, but please center it on the window. Oh, for sure. Yeah, of course. Okay. And then I didn't hear any comments outside of just general approval of the blade sign or the other, the swirl sign, if we could call it that. Are there any other comments, DRB folks? No. All right. Then third motion of the night. Rob, did you catch the recommendation? Yes. So I guess if the sign's already been ordered, this is kind of like a recommendation that you might ignore if the sign already been ordered, but essentially to make, I guess, that space horizontally on the lettering more wide, and then the space up and down vertically above the lettering and below the lettering more narrow, and then the overarching tier two, this should happen no matter what recommendation, is to center the sign or to make the width of the sign itself match that of the window below it. Those are the two recommendations that I got. Go into the first category because if it's not already been allocated. Lindsay, do you feel like what Rob said captured your recommendation? It's close. I would just clarify that I think tier one, we'll say this, if the sign's already been ordered, let's just center it on the window. If the sign hasn't been ordered, make it the full length of the window opening and give a little more space left to right. I'm not as concerned about shrinking the vertical. I mean, that's a possibility, but I'm more concerned about giving a little more width. Jason, did you already order the sign? It's in production, and it's in the factory, as you mentioned? Last month, I already placed the order because it usually takes a long time to make, but I will call them to see if the back one already be installed. I want to see how far they are right now and see if they can be changed. If they cannot be changed, I will tell them to centralize when they install it. That's the most important thing. You centralize the sign on the window or make sure that's the same length as the window below it. Okay. Yep. That's that's all I got, Erica. Okay. Super. So, board members, a motion with recommendations is outlined by Rob. I move that we accept this proposal with the recommendations made by Rob. Thank you. A second. I second. Thank you, Karen. All those in favor, please say aye. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you so much, Jason. It's a lovely sign package. We're excited. Thanks. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Okay. And next up is Raquel Zaliondia and Takaria Delpueblo. So, I see Raquel in attendance. I'm going to send them a panelist link. Okay. Hello. Can you hear me? Hello. We can hear you. Just fine. Thanks for being here. There you are. Welcome, Ms. Zaliondia. We're happy to have you. Would you please introduce your project and do you want me to share my screen for you or do you have the ability to share your screen? Can you share the pictures for me, please? Sure. Yeah. And I'll just... Yeah. So... You have your application document and then I have two images. Yeah. Okay. So, I had put the decals stickers. I did not know I needed permission to do the logo. I put it because a lot of people don't know it above us. We just started in November and things... We did start very slow and so I thought maybe putting like a barcode would help people. So, people have been scanning that. People also, when we started getting like delivery, didn't know where we were located. They would get lost. And so if you see the other one, there's one that says under entrance and that was very helpful for people to be like, oh, the door is at the other side. The neon side that I was told is the open sign just so people know we're open. So, yep. And then the other side I have a Mexican flag because a lot of people don't know where that giddy up. People don't know really... Sometimes don't know what that giddy up means, which is a taco place. And so that's also something we take very pride of. That being a Mexican restaurant. So, there's two decals stickers I put it since we can't have the logo on our awning. And it's something that I just want people to visualize when they think of our taco spot, the cactus, the taco. And it's been helpful. And sometimes people are afraid to enter. And so the bar code has been very helpful. They just go outside and then they decide if they want to come in or not. Well, I would say that I don't think that the flag... It's awesome, but I don't think it's within our scope because it's a temporary thing on the inside of the building. And it depends. We could provide some feedback on the QR code, but if it's a temporary sheet of paper, yeah, it is, just put up there. If you'd like to kind of maybe make it a vinyl sign on the window or want some design advice on the design of that, we could provide it. But I don't think those fall within our scope if they're basically temporary signage elements. Yeah, they're just a piece of paper because we wanted to see if it was actually going to work out. And it's actually been really helpful. So if I'm allowed, I can probably do a vinyl one and make it look more appealing on the window. Okay. And then you said the two, the two vinyls. Yeah. Is it cactus? Yeah, it's a cactus. That's our logo. And then that's the only one that says entrance that points to our door. All right. And the neon signs are already hanging in the space? Yep, it's the open sign. Yeah. All right. Thanks for those clarification. Yes. Given that they're already in DRB members, can we start with the vinyls? Are there any comments? Is this something that we're happy to accept as is with no recommendations? I'm fine with it. Yeah. I like the cactus. It's very cute. Thank you. Yeah. With regards to the location of the neons, any comments? Oh, okay. And then let's have a conversation about the QR codes envisioning that they might become vinyl stickers on the windows. Right now, they're temporary pieces of paper behind the glass, but if they become vinyl stickers on the windows and were permanent, what advice do we have? I have a thought about kind of scale and maybe making the, using the same font that you have for entrance to use to stand for menu just to kind of like tone it down a little bit. Yeah. Karin, please. I also, I guess maybe you could put it down into the corner so that your nice cactus takes center space, but that it's big enough and they can, it still will serve the purpose, but it's somehow reduced and doesn't sort of take center stage. Yeah. I can do that. I can make it go more in a corner. So the logo is out there, but it's also accessible for people to just scan from outside in the corner or on center would be a possibility. Katherine. Yeah, I would agree. Move it down to the corner. People will know what that is. I don't even know if you have to tell them scan. If you could just have, if you could just have the code without all the white background, I think it would really totally improve the appearance of your windows. Lucy, you're thinking. I think that that all sounds good to me. Okay. Great. Are there any last thoughts or comments before we make a motion to approve this proposal with recommendations? Rob? Does the board feel okay with it being the same color that is now? So if it was a decal, you'd be fine with it being black, but has the same font as that entrance wording. So the word entrance for the sign above it. Yeah. Okay. And then I guess the recommendations I wrote down Erica were pretty much the two I just said. So the using the same font for the word entrance on that decal above for the wording on the QR code sign and then putting it on like a bottom corner and kind of make it tiny bit smaller. So it's out of the way of the window decal that you're trying to bring more attention to, I guess. Yeah. I'd make the whole sign a square just crop it clean. Okay. Okay. No, it didn't. Thanks. Okay. So then are there any additional comments? Okay. Then a motion to approve recommendations. I move to approve with recommendations. Thank you. Second. I second. Thank you, Catherine. Comments. Great. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you. That's it. That's all of us. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you. Have a great day. Thank you. Bye bye. Okay. Lovely. So we now have zero people in attendance, Erica. We scare them all away after that last one. We have to approve minutes. I know you all read them in advance. I have to approve minutes and then we can decide if we have the energy to continue the conversation a little bit about just having an opening conversation about design guidelines. Shall I share my screen? This is a reminder. This was the January 29th meeting. We talked about Aster and Pine. One clause here. Although this is really their summary, here's our comments. No recommendations. And then we talked about South Pleasant Street 4555 and then the proposal in Riddell. This is the summary of their proposal. And then here we have our discussion, which is lengthy. It was a long discussion. It was hard to capture all of it into brief statements. Thanks. I'm just going to scroll a little bit. So the gray painted Yeah, not painted. Yeah. It was more of a comment about the level of the canopy relating to the stone band at the front of the building. So I would just say suggested adjusting the height of the canopy to align with the stone band at the front of the building. Something to line with the gray, gray stone bands, right? At the front of the building. Yeah. I also did suggest they consider painting the brick the same color as the front of the historic facade, but kind of light yellow. That they might be in here. I didn't see it. So what was the, sorry, which part of the building did you recommend having the paint to be the same color as the existing? Yeah, there's like a reddish orange brick on the base of the addition. Oh, so you're talking about the side of the existing Hastings building that was kind of left unpainted and you suggested? They're going to paint that yellow to match the front. I'm suggesting that they also paint the base of the addition that is currently shown in their renderings. I was like a reddish brick color. Here it is. Explore the idea of using a yellow brick on the new building. Yep. All right, cool. Thanks. No problem. That's it. Okay. And that was it. That was it. So I have one recommendation for, or one edit to be made. Catherine, do you, your hand is up. I just want to make sure that, great. So barring any other changes to the January 29th meeting minutes. Could I have a motion to approve with changes? Wait, Erica, didn't you see an update or recommendation? No. No. Okay. Never mind. Sorry. No. I moved to approve with recommendations. Second. All those in favor? Hi. Hi. Thank you, Catherine. Okay. So I'm sure. What is it? I had 150 documents opened earlier and now I have none. I thought of you those. All right. So it's 614. I want to respect everyone's time, but I do think that if we have the energy for a 15-minute initial conversation about what some of the reasons for and goals for revisiting the design review board guidelines might be. So kind of an upper-level conversation about whether this is something that the DRB would like to do and what we would achieve by doing it. I will let you know that I've asked Paul Backelman to let us know whether or not we can have a working group, might be called a subcommittee, whether that would be a possibility so that we could have a couple members of the DRB and possibly members of the public join us as a kind of a smaller group outside of this and then bring a recommendation to the DRB. And then, of course, the DRB would have to make a recommendation to the planning board, I would imagine, before anything was approved. So it's kind of a long arc. But Rob, do you want to add something? Yeah, sure. I think Chris Brestrup brought this up last time, but we actually got grant funding to do an overhaul change of our design review criteria in the zoning bylaw. But also, we're working with Datsun and Flinker to create downtown design guidelines that are kind of larger and more carte blanche than what we have now. And that also might include updating the design review criteria as well for the DRB district. So I think one thing I definitely could do, Erica, and the rest of the board members, I could discuss so with Chris and our other planner, his name is Nate, who are more involved in that process than I am right now, if we can incorporate the DRB to be a part of those discussions. Because they're going to start doing a lot of public outreach soon. And I think having the DRB's feedback and input in most of those discussions and conversations would be really crucial. I definitely would think that'd be an appropriate avenue to express our concerns in regards to the current design review criteria and how we can make improvements and also contribute to the overall design guidelines for the downtown as a whole anyways. So I think that could be an appropriate place to do it. I don't know how fast they're moving with that yet. It's still kind of early on with them. I think we have like two years to do the whole thing anyways, because the grant is funded for two years. So I definitely could reach out to the air folks in my department tomorrow and bring this up to them and just say the DRB definitely wants to be involved with those discussions. But I also am not opposed to having discussions within the DRB meetings that focus on our recommendations for a new design review criteria as well. So I think both conversations could be very useful in that process. So I don't know how the board members feel about that. Given the fact that we're doing like this whole design guideline overhaul from a zoning and design perspective, in addition to updating our review criteria. Yeah, I think it's important to coordinate there. And I know that Dodson and Flinker's charge is to incorporate a great deal of public and also various board and committee feedback in their process. It's a very public engaged approach to this project. So we don't want to be redundant, but I think that we also have some interest and expertise to bring to bear here. And I don't know how detailed their design guidelines are going to be with regards to some of the things that we talk about. But I appreciate that, Rob, that you would kind of bring that to the planning table, if you will. And maybe you could ask about process and timeline specifically. I think it makes sense to also avoid having like two parallels of folks that are working on the same thing. Although the DRB's perspective, you're just focusing on the design review criteria, which is a part of the larger project that Dodson and Flinker is working on. But I think combining both of those into the same process would probably be the most efficient way to make the change happen. So I guess I could definitely bring it up, but maybe at the next meeting, I could always report back to the board and see what's come up of those discussions and see what we can do moving forward. And I don't know how much interaction Dodson and Flinker is going to have with the boards and committees. I know they're mostly going to be working with the planning board because they're the one that can recommend the zoning changes. But I think they would also want design review criteria and feedback. They're going to want feedback from the historic commissions because we have three in town. And yeah, I mean, that's what I could offer right now. I don't know what else you want to discuss in addition to that, Erica, for this part of the meeting. Yeah, I think the other thing I would want to discuss is, well, remembering back to Lindsay, you raised it up. And it's one of the few comments on how I'm always saying, okay, now there's a lot of redundancy here. So I thought if we could just have a brief conversation about what our goals as a committee would be, is that we want to clarify, do we want to change what the vision for this kind of a process would be so that if we entered into it, we would have some shared objectives. I'll just say, I mean, I think it's a great idea and I appreciate giving airspace to it. My brain is very fried right now, so I probably don't have a whole lot to offer, but just as a aerial perspective on it, I think perhaps the first goal could be to just comb through the existing guidelines and see if there's any way to consolidate or weed out redundancy as kind of the first step. And then if there's, I would say the next round or the next priority from my perspective is updating any language that feels like it's referencing design priorities or guidelines that may be not reflective of the current design standards for downtown in terms of referencing existing buildings and just make it more inclusive of design that is compatible versus consistent with. So one thing I could do Erica and the rest of the board, I could look at the existing criteria and see if I can start finding ways that we could condense it and to get rid of that redundancy, but then I could circulate that a week or two in advance so you guys can have the chance to review it as well or you could do your own research and see if you have any suggestions for what we could look at or something that we could add to the existing criteria because I know there are some things that I don't know if it was Lindsey or Erica thought was lacking that could be incorporated and there are certain areas that could be combined because they're pretty much repetitive. And I think making them all combined in some way that's efficient would make the most sense. Yeah, I think the materiality is the thing that seems to be missing. Go ahead, Katherine. Yeah, it's almost embarrassing when you start reading those standards, I guess we're nine or 10, because they are so redundant. I thought it was really a good idea to look at those. And I think also to keep in mind that it's almost like we have two downtown Amhersts. We have the buildings around the common and then we have the rest of the buildings that stretch out like the burger thing and everything else. And so I would encourage some sensitivity to that piece because that is sort of the ground, the old Amherst, and sometimes the frustration occurs when people see us or somebody tampering with the downtown. So happily Hastings, for example, is a good example of that. It has been saved by Amherst College and it will be there and it won't be a Levi store or something of that sort. So I think those are things that need to be sort of thought about when we do make some changes, but the redundancy is embarrassing. So enough of that. I think Katherine, also one thing to include or to keep in mind is that they're not just looking at solely the buildings and maybe the areas near the buildings, but they're also looking at placemaking too and like how they can connect the downtown in a way that's more pedestrian friendly and more bicycle, multi-mobile friendly and stuff like that. And they'll also look at how could you better utilize green spaces? How could you better utilize underutilized spaces? I mean, stuff like that that goes beyond just the architecture. You're referring to Dodson and Flinker there. Yeah, yeah, Dodson and Flinker, my bad. Because they also they also have a landscape architects too that incorporate a lot of that placemaking stuff into public spaces and even spaces in front of these businesses. So that's something to keep in mind too. Dodson and Flinker were hired to be the consultants of Milton, a kind of which did something very similar to what Amherst is doing now. And I don't know if the report on what they their final report is on the town web page, but I started to read it and it's very helpful because it does give you an idea of how all encompassing what they are dealing with is going to be. And I do think it would be really wonderful if the people that are so that that I've been so impressed with your expertise in formulating design recommendations that you become really involved in this because I think you have a lot to offer in this and it looks like they're reaching out. And it's a great opportunity for Amherst to move ahead and clarify where they're going. Thank you. Yeah. All right. Well, Rob, you've made a number of offers. I know how busy you are, but do appreciate that you offered to return to planning office and ask about what the timeline is and maybe understanding what the Venn diagram is of our scopes of interest and where the design review board will be plugged into the schedule, if you will. And then you also offered to do an initial review to identify redundancies and then share that with the board about a week in advance of our next meeting. Yeah. And you guys could, you know, if you have time, I know you're all busy, especially you, Lindsay and Erica. I know you're both very busy. If you did have, you know, stuff you wanted to incorporate, I know Erica, you mentioned materiality as one category to include. But if there's anything else you guys notice, I mean, it wouldn't hurt to, I guess, bring you up during the next meeting if we discuss this further. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate the offer. I think it sounds like there's some interest in that. Yeah. So kind of the two objectives I'm hearing are like redundancy and then kind of like clarifying and also updating. Yes. Maybe the, yeah, well, let's take a look at the next meeting and take it from there. So thanks for getting us started. That's great. Okay, folks, we did it. Another successful meeting. Actually, before we end the meeting, can I ask one question as a staff person to this board? So I am actually running for a local election in the town that I live in. I live in South Hadley. I am running on a post for their planning board. And the only thing is, is that they meet on Mondays as well. So the Mondays, they typically meet on or on the second and fourth Monday of every month. And I was wondering if it would be okay with the DRB members, if we possibly start scheduling meetings for the third Monday, or any other Monday besides those two. I mean, usually, I know we like to keep them in the middle of the month or towards the end, but I thought, you know, I would ask and see if everybody was okay with that. And so if that was the case, the next meeting would be March 18th. That's fine of me. Cool. Spring break. Let me do a quick check. Oh, is that the week of spring break? It is. I didn't know that. Fine with me. Yep. Okay. Karen, Katherine? Well, it's fine with me. Is Karen there? Oh, yeah. Is that okay with you, Karen? When does the planning board meet? The planning just meets on Wednesdays. But I'm planning to be somewhere else. I hope I can zoom in on that Monday. I'll be gone, but I'll try it. I think it'll be okay. I just need internet access, where it is spring break, and so we're headed out. Awesome. Great. Well, you know, and if Pat can be here, then we'll have a quorum. Yeah. All right. Well, yeah, I think that it's okay in principle. I appreciate you guys being a comedy. I know you love having me around, so you probably don't want to lose me as your staff person. No. And congratulations in advance, I guess. Yeah, good luck with that. Yep. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. That's awesome. Okay. And three new businesses coming to Amherst? Yeah. I went to Botanica over the weekend. It's lovely, really lovely. I highly recommend it. I think all those businesses are going to be just so exciting to have in town. I bought pasta and wine at the shop, planning on buying lots of things from Botanica. All right. We'll give everybody a motion to adjourn. Have a good night. Approved. We go. Okay. Bye. Bye. Have a good night all. Take care.