 So I'll give you my name in two versions. So the first one is my Ojibwe name, which was given to me by my aunties. And that name is Waase Ekawabitkwe. And what that means is she that looks ahead. Gnozhe Dodem, that's my clan, the pike. And as most people know, the pike are the original teachers and philosophers in our nation, the Anishinaabek nation. And Sagmak Nishinaabek Donjabas, so Sagmak is my home. And it's where I was raised for the majority of my life. And most people know me as Dr. Pam. And I have been teaching for 25 years. Yeah, so that's my intro. Okay, great. Thank you. So do you wanna tell me about your program? So like what's it called and just as you can just describe it. So I'm gonna talk specifically about the program that I was in for the majority of my career. So the program that I have been in since about 2004 is the Faculty of Education and it's actually concurrent education here at Laurentian University. And I was the first faculty member that was hired back in January 2004, even before a director was hired in the English con ed program here at Laurentian. And I was hired at the very beginning because the intent continues to be to infuse indigenous content, world view, and our languages throughout our program. So even though our program is not designated indigenous, it was really important at the beginning to have indigenous knowledge and resources embedded throughout. So that's my program. And I teach the course that I was really responsible for was a course called Instructional Strategies. So I taught all of our students and what I taught was lesson planning, unit planning, classroom management and how to use technology in the classroom. Yeah, so that's what I did. So I taught all students in a mainstream program. So what's the age group and target audience? Okay, so the age group, so because our program is concurrent education, so our students do two degrees at the same time. And they're basically, they're admitted into con ed like right from year one. So you have like, you know, students that are starting out, you know, they can be 17 or 18 years of age. And by the time they exit and leave the program, so they graduate with their professional training and teacher education, they're often like anywhere between 22 to 24 years of age. Yeah, so that's a little bit about our students, but they do two degrees at the same time. Whatever their undergraduate degree is, a bachelor of arts, a bachelor of science, a bachelor of commerce, whatever it is. And then they do their bachelor of education at the same time in two streams. They either do primary junior, which is they intend to teach kindergarten to grade six or junior intermediate where they intend to teach grades four through to 10. And so what would you say is the aim of the program or like what are the program's learning objectives? The main, I guess, if you want to say a program objective for our students is to ensure that our graduates from teacher education that they leave our program being professionally competent in teaching. So that what I mean by professional competence is that they meet the standards of the Ontario College of Teachers so that they leave their number one knowing how to teach and how to teach well, how to differentiate their instruction, their assessment and that they also leave being reflective practitioners. So what that means is that they are socially conscious individuals that are committed to human and other than human rights and especially the environment. And one of the fundamental things is that they leave there with a firm understanding of how to incorporate and integrate indigenous worldview in their particular division. So again, it's getting back to that, being able to do that from kindergarten to grade six or else grades four through to 12. They need to be able to do that. So again, like it's embedded throughout all of our courses. So if they're taking, so like all students will get it in science, how to integrate indigenous knowledge in science and they get that math. So it's embedded throughout. So it's not like, let's take the indigenous studies course. It's just, it becomes a part of like the common knowledge that they all leave with. What in your opinion makes your program an excellence, an example of excellence in indigenous education? The reason why I fully believe that our concurrent education program, so again, the English stream here at Laurentian University is an example of excellence in indigenous education is that we right from 2004 began integrating indigenous knowledge all the way throughout. So this was not like a particular ministry telling us that we had to do it or else like being called to do it. What happened was because of the tricultural mandate here at Laurentian University and we're situated on Antigua, Michigan, and Ishnabek right from the very inception of the program, it was like, you know what? This is what's really important is to have indigenous knowledge, again, integrated and infused throughout all of the courses for our students and to make that a priority. And that's what makes our program an example of excellence is because it's something that we do and it's something that we do well. So again, like, you know, having students that are socially conscious, having students that know basic terms like in not just Anishinaabemowin, but Mishigewik and Haudenosaunee as well, you know, and that they know like right away that their first responsibility, you know, is wherever their placements are is to contact the indigenous lead. They know all of the steps that other teacher education programs don't necessarily equip their students with. And we also have a very high success rate and a high number of our graduates that go and work in Northern communities like, you know, across Canada. So a high number and do that successfully. They're not these drop in students that go for one or two years, but we have students that like, you know, work in Northern Saskatchewan, Northern Manitoba, Northern Ontario, Ontario, Northern BC, work with indigenous peoples in meaningful and authentic ways. How do you measure the success of your program? So how we measure the success of our program is through a couple of metrics. So the very first metric, of course, is always based upon, again, you know, things like how we measure it is things like right within their practicum component, right? So they are evaluated on, one of the categories is they're evaluated on their ability to incorporate and include indigenous content, right? So it's right in their practicum handbook. It's right in the framework. And when they go out to the schools, it's like, okay, in your lesson plans, have you included indigenous content? And it's built right into the actual evaluation tool. And they're given like, you know, a score by the evaluators if they have done it or not, right? And also how well they've done it. And it's not acceptable to not do it, right? So they get a level one through to four and the evaluators are also highly skilled and trained. So their practicum supervisors are highly trained to evaluate that, like that part of the program. So the practicum ultimately becomes the measure of how well the courses have taught those students how to embed indigenous content, again, like, you know, into their lesson plans and into like, you know, how they actually teach when they go on placement. So it's an actual metric. And they also have to provide like, you know, evidence through portfolios showing that they have incorporated and embedded indigenous content. And they find creative ways to do it, right? So every course that they take, you know, they have to be able to find creative ways to incorporate indigenous science in, of course, teaching science and technology in whatever grade they're in. So it's an actual metric that's beyond just like, you know, a check or else giving a one to four, they have to provide evidence that they've actually done it. And they can't, again, pass the practicum component if they receive like, you know, less than a three, you know, on that particular part of the program evaluation. And our program is actually accredited. The Ontario College of Teachers accredits our program. We've gone through it twice and we're accredited based upon the fact that we do. We incorporate indigenous content and that's one of the key things. From your perspective, what is indigenous education and is indigenous a word term that you would use? It depends. So I'm gonna give like an example. So indigenous education. So I do think it's very situational. So I think that indigenous education, it's a national term that we use and that we apply to define a nation to nation relationship that we have, you know, to settlers and to non-indigenous Canadians in K to 12 education but also beyond that post-secondary. So I think that that's a pan term that we use, right? Indigenous. But whenever it comes to like, you know, the reason why I say it's situational is that I don't call it indigenous education here, you know, here like, you know, in our Sudbury context like what I say is that we're doing the Schnabek education first and then we're going to, you know, go beyond the Schnabek education and incorporate, you know, the other, our other again, very unique and important nations as well. Yeah, so to me, indigenous education is a pan term that we use, you know, to describe a very unique status that first nations, Métis and Inuit peoples have and what is indigenous education? There's things that are fundamental to it, I believe. So no matter where you go, whether it's here in Ontario or also if I go to Saskatchewan or British Columbia, the key things that are fundamental that we all share are these things that indigenous education is always related to these things, to the culture, to the teachings, to the language, to the land and having those deep connections with our knowledge keepers, whether they're called elders or Métis senators that indigenous education share these particular characteristics and it's always based in wholism. Whatever wholism means to the particular nation in that area. So when I teach here, indigenous education for me is like using our sacred circle, using Minobomodzu and as a foundation for teaching, you know, our students on how to be respectful of the learner, of all learners. So how would you define them at the word education? So education for myself is actually kandosue and kinomage. So kandosue meaning knowledge and kinomage meaning teaching, right? So education for me is situated in the language and teachings of this area and because that really does like the language and the teachings of this particular land and area and of the people here, that's what situates indigenous education here in Con Ed, right? So kandosue and kinomage share a particular sound and also a syllable and that's the a sound, right? And air comes from the word dam in, which is the heart and the heart comes ultimately from our creator. So to me, the language and the culture and teachings cannot be separate, right? They can't be separate here in teacher education at Laurentian University. And I don't think that it is because if you take a look at it, our graduates do walk away being very socially conscious, right? So again, like, you know, they carry that, they carry that heart and action of teaching K-12 in a good way. That's what I see. So for me, it's kandomage, which is like, you know, to teach, just teaching and kandosue, which is knowledge, yeah. So that's what it is. So those two things for me are what root education here in this area. What is your vision for the future of indigenous education? So in your community and also in Canada? So my vision for the future of education is definitely this, that the young people are letting us folks know, like, you know, senior academics and older folks, that the young people, this Eighth Fire is there, like, you know, they're letting us know, listen, step aside, we're ready to take over. So our young indigenous brothers and sisters, you know, you see these movements, right? All across Canada. And, you know, it's not just idle no more. It's like this entire generation is saying, you know what, we are the future that's here right now. And we are the ones that are gonna lead the way, you know, in terms of education and social justice and reasserting ourselves, like, you know, as the indigenous peoples of these territories that need to be respected and heard. And you see that, you know, through reconciliation efforts all across Canada, the young people are the ones that are leading this. So what do I see for the future of indigenous education? What I see, you know, is a movement and a movement towards real social change, you know, because our young people are the ones that are really aware. And it's the autumn pelchies. It is like, you know, people like yourself, you know, it's, you know, the Stephanie Johnston's, you know, it is the Gabby Pellerin's, it's the Matthew Dewick's that are saying, you know what, step aside now, make space for us because we are the ones that are gonna make the difference. Yeah, so I feel that people like myself that we've done our part, right? So we've done, we've laid some foundational work in education, but it's the young people that are really gonna make the biggest difference. So what information, materials, and resources do you need to achieve this vision aside from funding? I'm glad you raised that, like, about the aside from funding please, because it was like, you know, about three years ago, and it was like an elder, last name was Williams, and I believe it was Gordon Williams. I was at a Canadian Teachers Federation conference, and this is going back about three years, and Gordon Williams was one of the first keynote speakers to get up, and again, wonderful elder, and I do believe that Mr. Williams, you know, was coming from one of the BC First Nations at this Canadian Teachers Federation Conference in Ottawa. And what Elder Williams said was it's gonna take a lot more than money to create change, and I really believe that you can have as much funding, and you know, everybody says we need more funding, but you know what, to actually change, you know, the mindsets, and the attitudes of people, and behaviors of people, right? That takes a lot more than money, right? It takes actually like, you know, appealing to the actual spirit of individuals, and the spirit of organizations to be socially conscious, and aware, right? To commit themselves to human rights, and other than human rights. So for me, what's needed is what's happening right now. So it's the things like the policies that are in place for school boards, right? To integrate, again, integrate indigenous knowledge, history, and truth and reconciliation right from kindergarten up. So that's happening at a public, like in public schools all across Canada, okay? So that's happening. So the policy stuff is already in place. But what needs to happen now is a more coordinated effort to also see that other aspects of indigenous life are also being honored to make sure that the justice system is held accountable, right? That it's held accountable, that the health system is held accountable when it comes to indigenous peoples. And I think that, you know, the recent cases of Colton Bushy and Tina Fontaine really raised the lens that there's like some serious issues, like, you know, with racism. It was always there, always there, but that those two particular cases raise the purview and the lens that listen, you know what, like, we really have not come that far. So it's also ensuring that those policies in K to 12 continue, you know, to be implemented in schools and to see indigenous content infused all the way throughout. But it's also ensuring that there's positions, you know, in senior leadership and government, you know, as well, that have indigenous people sitting there to create real change. You know, it's ensuring that there's also spaces, you know, in school boards as well for our indigenous teachers, especially in the language to be valued, right? And, you know, to offer the language in good ways. So that's what needs to keep occurring, what needs to happen. And also for indigenous and non-indigenous peoples, especially like in older adults and people that are at the end of their career, to make way for young indigenous peoples to occupy those spaces, to know when it's time to say, okay, I need to go and do something else so that a younger indigenous person can come in with that renewed passion and sense of hope and do the things that they need to do. So that's what I believe.