 So I'm Hart, and today we have an excellent panel for you about the coming multi-chain world, technologies, and use cases for connecting blockchain networks. And we have some fantastic experts on our panel, including Sophia from Kaleida, who's done a lot of work with the Firefly Project, Shingo from Fujitsu, who's one of the founders and former lead maintainers of the CACDAI project, and Tsutsumu, who's worked with the Yui Project and is a maintainer there. So we have an excellent crew together for you today. So out of curiosity, how many people are familiar with blockchain? Some. And how many are familiar with blockchain interoperability or connections or like cross-chain transactions, atomic swaps, stuff like that? I see Rai raising his hand. Yeah. All right, well, that's great. So we have a little bit of background information planned. We'll let our panelists introduce themselves and discuss some basic background on hyperledger and interoperability within hyperledger. And then I will ask them a bunch of questions and give you the opportunity to ask them questions as well. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce Sophia Lopez. Thanks, Hart. I guess I'll try using this mic. All right. So we met as a panel and thought we would start with a couple of introductory concepts and slides. Well, first, just to explain what hyperledger is and actually might not be the best person to do the intro. There are some more qualified people who are on the hyperledger foundation team, but I can give the perspective of an industry participant and collaborator. So hopefully that's valuable to you all as well. So it's a global cross-industry consortium of communities collaborating and advancing business blockchain technologies. What's great about hyperledger is that it leads with code. So you actually, you get the code base, engineers and developers can find it, they can start using it and applying it. There are other blockchain communities that lead with standards and then there that it's a different approach. So you can see what works best for your companies. So what makes the hyperledger foundation unique? So it's hosted by the Linux Foundation. We were, some of us are actually at the global summit that hyperledger hosts and it was in Dublin this year. And we had the privilege to hear someone, a luminary from the Linux Foundation speak who shared that 90% of all enterprise open source code in production actually sits in the Linux Foundation. So it really is the home for production grade open source and there's a lot of investment on topics like security and compliance and what enterprises really need to be able to run this at scale and in production. It's neutral and collaborative. So it's always open to all who wish to participate and it is looking at standards by business and for business. So looking at key enterprise requirements. And today we'll be talking about interop and hybrid blockchains, but there's certainly a lot of other considerations around privacy, scale, performance and the like. So it is a community where blockchain software is contributed and maintained and the hyperledger does not run blockchains. Those are done through separate entities, foundations and obviously global organizations and companies. Then they'd certainly aim to be a diverse community. Anyone can join and there's no pay to play so that if people feel strongly about contributing to a community and participating, it's open to everyone as well as the meetings, email lists and communities. So certainly encourage everyone who's interested in learning more about blockchain, digital assets, web three to take a look at hyperledger. And I think this might be one of the last slides on hyperledger. So it started in 2015 and actually launched with a couple of key contributions from various companies across the industry. Actually back then I was on the IBM side of things and we were pretty active and I actually had responsibility of launching the IBM blockchain platform and the open source developer team that worked on the fabric code. So it was great looking at the life cycle of all these projects that were contributed since then. And as Kaleido, we've sort of come full circle and have become very active in other projects and one of them Firefly, which I'll talk about later today as well. And then you could see some of the other projects here such as Cactus is represented by Shingo. And then there's certainly a number of labs as well. You could see towards the bottom and U.E. sits with the labs that Susumu is gonna speak about. So certainly hyperledger looks to address a diverse ecosystem of enterprise tech and use cases. And that's cross industries and some of these cut horizontally as well as vertically. So a lot of really exciting work being done using blockchain digital asset technologies. I know some people in the audience said they're not as familiar with blockchain. So if you look across all of these use cases, there really is a common denominator of a shared data problem. So you have multiple participants that could sit across an industry and they really need to get that one common view of the data and a shared ledger provides that and of course the cryptography and mutability means you could trust it. So if you have people who might be competitors in some sense but are collaborating to drive down costs, if it's a supply chain or even a new industry ecosystems and models, they know this is trusted shared data and shared application logic that they can collaborate with. And certainly there's a lot of use cases around new types of digital assets, tokens, NFTs that have become quite interesting as well to companies that might not be as much of an ecosystem approach but just a new business model or new way to engage with your consumers. So on the educational side of things, we did put in a couple slides just to talk about before getting into more advanced topics of blockchain interoperability and hybrid blockchains just talking about the different types of blockchains that companies might engage with and there certainly are a spectrum, a lot of times people think about it as private, more on the enterprise side and then the public community where you can see crypto and other applications of the technology. Over time, over the last seven years, we've seen that the private permission blockchains have really looked to do more and more where they can tap into public ecosystems and the public projects have looked more to add things like app chains or subnets where they can have more scalability, more performance and various types of primacy. But as you can see, the permission is public, it's really, you're looking at more of crypto, then you can move across the continuum all the way to some place on the right hand side where you have medical records where it's very compliant, regulated, you have personally identifiable information. Then another slide we wanted to put in just from set some definitions. When people say interoperability, it can mean a lot of things. So if you look at just the operational dimensions of interacting with core systems and sources of data, there's certainly you need to interoperate between the new sort of blockchain-based ledgers and digital assets with non-DLT or non-distributed ledger technology systems. So how do you get data in and out your core systems and sources of data that's being exchanged with your blockchain-based work? And increasingly, obviously, the industry has moved towards sort of cloud-delivered, events-driven type architectures where you can listen to events and send events back and forth. So you have transactions happening on the ledger and then they get picked up and you can interoperate with your core systems through standard RESTful APIs. Now the next hop over you see interop between, you know, within a DLT network. So you could have, you know, a Hyperledger-Besu or Ethereum-based network and you could have various ledgers with smart contracts as C-Stancer smart contract within the same DLT network. Then the next hop, you can have different networks but still using the Sam and Drillian protocol. And then I would say the most advanced case which some of the projects we're talking about today really look at interoperating between different types of blockchain protocols. So, you know, a lot of standard ones in the enterprise space. You have Ethereum variants and Hyperledger-Besu sits in the Hyperledger community. Then there's Hyperledger fabrics and other popular type of DLT technology. And then another one that enterprises often will consider as a third option as well is Quarta, Quarta-based and that does not sit in the Hyperledger community. And then there are hundreds of public protocols and a lot of those have a token associated with them and those sit on the public side of things. But increasingly on getting to the next definition we see people looking to interoperate between public and private. So, you know, that's more commonly when people say hybrid would refer to that. And why would they do that? So we're finding that in some cases, let's say you're a gaming company and you have users who interact with in-game assets. Increasingly they're representing those as non-fungible tokens or NFTs. So if you're a gaming company and you have millions of users and transactions daily you're, they're telling us they're looking for doing that on a gas free chain. So public ecosystems have a token and it costs money to transact. For a lot of these high volume transactions they basically want what's a side chain or their own internal chain so they have more predictable transaction and performance throughput and no need to hold crypto and it's gas free. But then there could be that special sword or the thing you win in the game that you wanna exit as an NFT to a public marketplace because now it's worth a lot of money and your users might want to just take it to another game ecosystem. So you need to be able to have lots of gas free transactions some potentially like layer two, they're called which are low cost and then some that could be very high cost but for very high value assets. And that gets us to one of our final definitional type concepts which is just this layer one which is the original protocols that are sometimes called main nets where you can do the on-chain transactions that could be very expensive because it's gotten very popular and that dries up the cost of the gas when these projects are popular or layer twos where they are more in charge of off-chain transactions and then sort of pinning to or the original layer one is the ultimate source of truth there. So these layer twos sit on top of layer ones. So that I think this is the final concept we wanted to talk about a little bit was just the concept of bridging and tokens. So these things can get very complex. Bridges often can be a source of major vulnerabilities. You might hear about quantities like $600 million being hacked as an example on some of these bridges. So a lot of these technologies can be newer. And again, I said hundreds of layer one type protocols where bridges are being stood up. So those are often in the news but that's another way really to as a part of the broader concept of cross-chain interoperability is thinking about how do you move tokens from one blockchain to another? And there's a lot of techniques to do that which I think we won't, it's outside of the bounds of this discussion today but atomic swaps, hash time lock contracts, et cetera. So with that I would like to, we guess we're gonna transition to talking about some of the use cases and the individual projects. So Shingo is going to take over from here. Thank you Sophia. So now it's a time to introduce to the each project belongs to the hypervisor under the umbrella of the Hypervisor Foundations. My name is Shingo Fujimoto from Fujitsu and as they introduced it I was a former maintainer of the Hypervisor Cactus. But now the project name was the brand new one that was Cactus, that's a pillar of the Cactus in Japanese Saboten is the meaning. So the cacti will provide to the sum of the integration of the multiple blockchains. That is one approach of the other choice of the other approach. So this diagram showing to the concept of the how the cacti can be used in the real use cases that I intentionally using to the circular economy because that is a common problem in the society. And Sophia mentioned the hybrid concept of the blockchain because of the blockchain cannot be private because of the blockchain is kind of the infrastructure for all the people to be participating. However, each company has their own domain for the to keep or to their governance inside of the their corporation site. So in this slide, I was showing to the how the the CO2 emission will be managed. So the left bottom side will be creating to the values because of the Japanese government encouraged the companies to reduce to the CO2 emission with replaced with newer equipments. However, that's actually cost. So that cost will be helped by the another company's like the airplane because we do not currently have an efficient way to fly the jet with that fuel. So those company wanted to reduce the CO2 emission but they cannot. So instead they are helping to the money to the another company making the effort to reduce the actual other CO2 emissions. And however, that is only the between to the company's relationship. So we need to do some sort of the proof is how they are contributing to the CO2 emission the reductions. So that measure, the data will be up to the other systems. And that value will be the goal through the another company's like how they could contribute to the systems. So this is another way of saying is a token economy. But I think that that is one of the use case of the kakutai as our solutions. So now I can see the how the kakutai as contributing for the integrating to the multiple chain into the single public chain battery. So there are the next. I will to the system we will introduce in another project, you. Thank you. Thank you very much, Shingo-san. So hello everyone. My name is Susumu Toriyumi. I'm a VP of product at Data Chain. And Data Chain is a core contributor to a high-performance of UE. And UE focuses on achieving the trustless interoperability for heterogeneous network or blockchain. And this slide explain the use case of UE. We've worked with Mitsubishi Trust Bank for experimenting the delivery versus payment of the stable coins and security tokens. So on the left-hand side, we have the Progma Coin Platform, which is issuing and maintaining platform for the stable coin. And right-hand side, we have external platform which maintains the digital securities. And consider the scenario that the artists want to pay both in a stable coin to receive the security token on the external platform. And we would like to make this kind of cross-chain transaction in the atomic way. I mean that both transactions will succeed or both fails to keep the consistency among the system. And we will start this experiment this year with enterprise settings. But we will continue to connect to, for example, public blockchain like Ethereum next year. So we can make this scenario hybrid blockchain space. Thank you. So I will hand it over to Sophia to explain the Firefly use cases. You can go to the next slide. Okay, so Hyperledger Firefly is another project under the Hyperledger community. And that's really looking at interoperability between the application and the ledger. So there's a rich connector framework. Really, so you could bring any EVM-based chain or UTXO-based chain. And there's a lot of facilities there to help you whether you're managing digital assets or transactions on and off different blackchains. Since we were going to focus on use cases, I gave a couple examples of projects which are using Firefly. So I mentioned the gaming companies with NFTs for in-game assets. Where you're going from private to public. Examples where people may have started five years ago with a fabric-based supply chain for agricultural commodities. But over time they've realized they really want to layer tokens on top. And that can be to represent carbon credits in the ESG space. Can be for loyalty points or other rewards for their suppliers. So Firefly makes it very easy to bring together Ethereum and fabric chains in those sorts of use cases. There's other consortiums which are using tokens and incentive mechanisms that's healthcare-provided data accuracy and transfer value. Different Web3 startups. So really looking at new ways of being able to finance small and medium businesses and create different types of ecosystems for trade finance. And then another cool example of a project is one that actually Swift is running on Firefly where there's both Quora and Quorum ledgers available. There's 18 of the world's central banks and also global transaction banks who are currently live on that platform today. Swift, that was their number one piece of exciting news. Their chairman and CEO announced at SyBos about a month ago in Europe. And included some logos. Many of these companies are logos in the US especially people would recognize but I think also internationally of like production enterprise deployments which are using Firefly. And I think what can you do with Firefly overall? I gave you some examples but basically it comes down to B2C, new digital experiences for your consumers. B2B sort of modernizing the way multi-party actors work together in an ecosystem and then just new business opportunities. And sometimes that could be, you start with B2B for example, we've got healthcare network. It's really looking at opening up data at a B2B insurance carrier and insurance carrier perspective but then with an eye to making some of that transparency available to their end users. So if you go to a doctor's visit not only can see if they're a network and they're taking new patients but you're also going to know how much they will charge you. So that would be very welcome in some parts of the world where we don't have as much transparency. And that included a snapshot on the bottom right. You know, it's an open source project but it has a very rich set of tools to accelerate development. Over 500,000 lines of code there comes with a very rich UI. Automate deployment and then to very easily scale in production. So that's a quick highlight of Firefly. Well, thank you all for explaining your projects and giving everybody some background. So let's start asking questions and please, you know, we'll make some time for audience questions. So if you have any questions as well, you know, please feel, please get them ready. So we are at an open source conference obviously. So I wanted to ask you all what you thought the role of open source and open standards is and will be with respect to interoperability. Would you like to start? Thank you. I can be first. So the thing to the blockchain, the open source in the blockchain is very important. Since the blockchain is, well, the decentralized mean to the other, all the trust is based on the community, not the single point of the players. So not only the simply I trust you, instead, we better trust the code and we need to be see what they are doing in the behaviors. So I think that the other open source and blockchain is kind of perfect matching for the from that perspective, from my opinion. Okay, so I think one of the great aspect of the Hyperledger is that all the projects are open source. So Cacti, Firefly, LabUI, no exception. And you can browse all the source or detailed tutorials on the GitHub. So you can start developing right away. And speaking of Hyperledger LabUI, it's based on the inter-blockchain communication protocol, we call it IBC. And that's a, we, that's provided from the Cosmos, the public blockchain ecosystem. And we will put more effort on the Cosmos asset to make the trustless interoperability protocol in an enterprise domain. So we experienced acceleration of the development by using such kind of open standards and open source. And as Shingo-san mentioned that the blockchain, basically blockchain is open source community. So that's the key concept and continue to be the key concept of the community. I can use this, I'll use this one, unless you. All right, so I guess you can hear a couple themes. I mean, one is acceleration. So when there's an open source code base, you have a community that's formed and maintainers and contributors that can move quickly, there's transparency. I will say what's important, maybe second part to the open source is how is it being governed? Where does the code sit? Because if it's just privately open source, which I do see in some areas of the web through space, someone could just flip those repos and make them private the next day. And then now you're building your business on something that it doesn't have the level of governance and assurance you would as if the code base sits in a well managed, trusted community that has decades of supporting enterprise. So, but certainly pretty important. We see governments, for example, as they're looking at web three and digital assets. If the code base is proprietary, what we've seen is they're not interested in adopting that as a standard. So certainly being able to see the code and then being able to contribute to it if you're building something important on it, you want your developers to be able to interact with that community and meet your requirements. So that's what's great about these communities that form around the code bases. Awesome, thanks for your excellent answers. So next question. So sort of taking a longer term view, what do you think the long term view of interoperability and integration is with respect to blockchain? Does anyone wanna start? What is the long term world? Long term is a kind of difficult question. So because of the disaffected, it has quickly changed there every year. However, I think that I believe to their interoperability is a collaboration. I think that that is my definition of the interoperability. Doesn't matter that that is a securely integrated or the logically integrated or the collaboration is always important for the blockchain world because of the trust or a desert asset should be exchanged somehow. However, at the same time, we have several news reporting to the some crypto asset was stolen or such a thing. So I think that the technical engineer need to be contribute to remove to the such a risk. That is, I think that that is our mission for the future of the interoperability. So that is my personal opinion. Thank you. Speaking from the public blockchain perspective, we have already several dozens, if not 100 major public blockchains. Of course, one of the, sorry, the biggest one is of course, Ethereum, but other chains like Polygon or Avalanche shows very strong presence in the community. And the interoperability like token transfer is already in place and very important role in the DeFi context. So the panel title is the coming blockchain world, but for me, the blockchain world already have come. And I think it will stay for say like five years from now. So interoperability is a key concept within such kind of such world. Okay. Well, I think we touched upon some of the directions the industry's going in the upfront level set. So public and private convergence. Certainly there's an emergence of certain standards. So you see web three skills are hard to find. And there's actually hundreds of new chains trying to get ecosystems formed. So we've already seen some standardization like the EVM compatible chains, EVM type token standard based on the Ethereum virtual machine is EVM. So expect to see more sort of consolidation of certain aspects so that people can get started quickly and then reuse and take advantage of the skills in the industry. But certainly I believe, although we do see a lot of enterprises doing really interesting things with the technology and projects that are having an impact. I do believe we're still in the early days of a big transformation. And this is part of post COVID people accelerating their digital transformation roadmaps. They're moving to the cloud. They're thinking about different ways of working with others in their industry and different ways of working interacting with their consumers. So a lot of innovation. And typically when you have 30, 40 year old legacy systems and you're doing that lift and shift to a new mission critical system, even though stay in place for quite a while. So I think it is important to make sure that when enterprises build looking towards a future that they're making really future proof type choices with the code bases that they decide to platform on. And I think that's a lot of the consideration that all of us have here today with our respective communities. Awesome, I think those are great answers. Would anyone in the audience like to ask one or all of our panelists a question? Hello. Yeah, I just have a question. Since you mentioned interoperability being one of the upcoming priorities. So when enterprises possibly reach out to you to consult, is interoperability a concern for them at all? Or is it something you guys mentioned they should be aware of? So I'm just curious on that part. Yeah, I guess if I start, I mean on the Firefly side, I mentioned actual projects that people have brought to us. So, you know, Kaleido, it's the company I founded. We run a whole range of technologies and offer flexibility and choice. So it's really being more of a trusted advisor and offering them the options and then they're bringing their use case versus are forcing the issue on interoperability. There's certainly sometimes where it makes sense for someone if they're a solution provider and they're building an app basically like in the web two world, now it's a decentralized or web three and has certain aspects, including tokens to it that are different. You know, it might not need to interoperate with anything. It's just providing a service like the same way an app you've subscribed to today. And in other cases, it does make a lot of sense to sort of maybe start in a more siloed manner and then when it makes sense to move in and out of that ecosystem. But I'm curious to see what Shingo and Sissimu think. Okay, yeah, I think to the very similar to the concept of the Sophia mentioned, but the real problem in the real world is some people are not friendly as they expected. So the companies do not want to expose everything. So I think that that is a kind of nature of the businesses. Even though they can collaborate some part that they cannot trust the whole thing. So I think that the kakutai is a kind of solution for the Zad case record, some sort of the well trust, partial trust will be unite into the smaller community. Even that is a kind of very tiny purpose, but that is more important to make it real for the blockchain as a workable solution. That is my prospect of the expectation for the kakutai project. So like two years ago, when we are selling our interoperability product to enterprise, the concern or main target was the enterprise to enterprise interoperability. But nowadays, the enterprise to public blockchain, I mean, hybrid blockchain is very popular in the enterprise domain. So in this context, it's very easy to explain the need of such kind of architecture because there is a several problems in decentralized finance, but already 50 billion dollars is locked in that device space. So they would like to access such kind of asset liquidity. So yeah, currently we are working with mainly financial institution to tap into the public blockchain through the enterprise blockchain. I'm gonna just add, I think it was a great question because a lot of times in web three you could see a hammer looking for a nail, the people just, you know, we're engineers and we think, well, how do these, you know, if you build this, how do you talk to that? And what's the natural extension five years down the road? But I do think it's important to just be grounded with real utility, real business value. And that's a good reminder that that's what we're all here for. Awesome, we maybe have time for one more quick question. If anyone has one, no one. Well, I guess I'll turn it over to the panelists. Do you all have any closing thoughts? So I think to the, well, in the very first part of the explanation part of the interoperability parts, I think to the many people thinking about the hybrid chain is important because we do not care about the public or private or consortium, that's the blockchains. So the interoperability technologies try to resolve to the integrate to the those are more nicely or smoothly. We had a three project separately but we had taken a role of the different prospect or purposes and we have the, we are very willing or actually working together to solve the different parts to fill out each other. So I think to the, please watch to the other or interoperability project in the hyper leisure foundation because we are the always to the working together in the two to solve the common problem in the blockchain space. Okay, well, I guess my closing thought was just to invite everyone to participate in any and all of these communities that sound of interest from a hyper ledger firefly perspective, we do have monthly community calls, we have a discord, we have different communities showcasing their work and sharing which is really great and it's just so much easier to get started, build your web three app. So if you have an idea of something you wanna do you've got all the tools to do that. So looking forward to seeing some of you guys on the discord guys and gals. Awesome, yeah, well, thank you all. Thank you panelists especially and thank you all for coming and yeah, we hope to see you around. If you have any questions, please feel free to talk to us, any of us or Daniela in the front or Rai in the back back there and we can help you with questions about hyper ledger and interoperability. So thank you all for your time and thank you for coming.