 Most of the people with remote sensing and GIS are more familiar with SCSEN, yes or no? So distributed model becomes a little problem, so SCSEN model, can we use this? We can use that also, as you said, you know, if that is not available, this is not available. Only P is required mostly here, so let us see how it can work. SCSEN model, most of you must be familiar, soil conservation service and the curve number method. So only problem is this has been developed in USA and the curve numbers are given by them. I personally would like the research should go in terms of developing our own curve numbers, although there is a study one or two in some of the areas. The basic equations under SCSEN, this outflow in terms of MM, if the inflow P is in MM is given by this equation P minus 0.2S whole square by P plus 0.8S. For some of the Indian conditions, some people have suggested P minus 0.3S by P by 0.7S also, I am not getting into the details of this. So this is what is Q is calculated based on only P, you need not know anything, right? It is all runoff in MM, that initial abstraction is considered to be 0.2, that is how P minus 0.2S has come, it is only rainfall, yeah. There are some developments in modified SCSEN by Mishra, VP Singh and others are both of them. He has considered some advanced models in this, this is one of the simpler model, P square by P plus S is the simplest, but initial abstraction to be considered as 0.2S is the next stage. He has I think given a series of models, in fact there was one student who finished his PhD in this modeling. Yes, Mishra and Singh, right, yeah that is our library has one copy of that. So the advancements that you can see there, but what has been adopted is the simplest method considering only initial abstraction. So S is given by 225400 by CN, CN is the current number, CN depends upon one, antecedent moisture condition, the main method. There are some variations subsequently, previous 5 days rainfall how much is it? If it goes beyond that you can consider as AMC2, AMC3, AMC1 is dry, AMC2 is medium, AMC3 is wet condition. So if it consider growing season and dry season, see 1.3MM more than 1.3 to 2.0 points or more than that like that and then further is A, B, C, D is hydrological groups. A has gravelly, sandy, sandy, B is you know a combination, C is slightly more like that, B is least infiltration. So depending on that this comes. So A, B, C, D, AMC and then land use land cover, agriculture, forest, different types of forest, all that will be the table is given, AMC2 normally they give AMC1 or 2, you can convert it. So based on that you take the values, I will show you the values for this particular watershed in due course of time. So that curve number is from that table, can we quickly go through? I think somewhere should be there, yeah these are the curve numbers, thick forest if it is hydrological group is A, A is sandy, B is you know B and C are mixture of both sandy, silt, sand, mixture. D is more non-poor, percolation or these infiltration is least in D, more in A that is the variation. So these are the curve numbers, this is what I meant by C, that CN has been used and if CN is hand rate, yes becomes 0, you can see if CN is hand rate completely flowing without anything then it becomes 100, yeah I am sorry what 0 now, will it become 0? So that is potential, maximum potential retention, S is maximum potential retention becomes 0, so you can and accordingly this keeps changing. So then of course some people have suggested minus 0.3S, so both of them have been tried. Now what is important in case of SC-SCN method is until Professor Mishra has slightly modified and he worked with respect to some time based on the formulations that are given in the book and the papers, earlier until that time at least it was mainly the total quantum of flow, it was not considered as a distributed model, I am sorry not distributed flow that is what hydrograph is, hydrograph definition of hydrograph, what yeah time distribution of runoff, time distribution important not total runoff, time distribution of runoff, so time distribution of runoff was not possible under SC-SCN method until these development scheme, no it is all total runoff. So we have tried as a first measure as taking this time of concentration as Tc 5 by 3 L where L is the lag and given by the formula which is given below, that is L to the power of 0.5S plus 1.7 and this, this where L is the hydraulic length in feet and Y is the slope in percent, based on this you calculate the lag, catchment you know you have seen the catchment and lag is calculated to 5 by 3 of the lag has been taken as the time of concentration, we are familiar with time of concentration and the lag yes or no, so once you have that means it takes that much time for the rainfall to reach the outlet of the catchment yes. So based on this we tried to give a hydrograph which was normally, but SC-SCN was meant for only as a total quantum, all these formulas I have given, you need not take down anything you listen and then ask me questions or answer my questions that is it. So this is what has been tried and what is the data used in case of remote sensing, IRIS 1B there I have used Landsat because that time IRIS satellites were not in the you know space, IRIS 1B, LISB 234 and toposheet of this hourly rainfall data for the two storms I considered them to be same, hourly discharge and the rainfalls were there, what is the methodology for this because GS has been brought into this which you have just heard in our lecture, catchment and drainage map which are required, T's and polygon map, land use land cover map, slope map, soil map, digitization of these thematic maps, all these maps, computation of curve numbers and then finally evaluation of hydrograph, this is the sequence of operations. So catchment drainage map you have seen T's and polygon map right, which you have seen that has been digitized, the land use land cover map has been digitized, slope map, slope can be there once you generate a DTM, you can get a slope map, soils map from the field digitization of thematic maps and the curve numbers have been calculated based on the land cover evaluation of the hydrograph, how do we go about it, this is what is meant by digitization, maybe in the afternoon lab you may be able to get a better view of this GIS lab where you will be going to CSRI. So this is how the digitization, once you digitize it may not look like a smooth line because of the digitization it looks like this, only one I have shown and then finally the land use land cover map. From these map, these are the types of values from the table that is given in McQueen on SCSCN method there is one, of course US Department of Agriculture has their own handbooks and Prof. Mishra gives in his book and there are empty in publications for these things, any most of the textbooks given nowadays these SCSCN method and the tables that are required for that. So these are the values that have been used depending upon the condition and then this sorry, you can see from this what is observed is this and what has been calculated with point 2 S is this, the main purpose is here using the GIS remote sensing and then creating a hydrograph from SCSCN method that is what it is, how is it created? Let us go back a little, suppose say there is a pixel here, assume anywhere this lag period is calculated from that, the hydraulic length is known, so from that I calculate the lag period from that TC that means that is the time that you know for a pixel here to come, I think I am comfortable here, from here to come to the outlet that is time of concept. So every pixel now imagine this every pixel of IRS 1, 70, 1A or 1B which one that has been used 1A, 2 means 36.5 meters is the pixel size, if it is 1 it is 73, 36.5 so 73 meters that is the type of the pixel size, it does not matter whatever it is I have given it in the notes. So from every pixel, pixel land use land cover is taken into account, how much is the loss has been calculated based on it land use land cover, that extra has been rooted with this time of concentration so that you get an hydrograph, are you getting it? That time, time lag of wall in that this particular second how much is in flow depending on the time of concentration, that means immediate one's pixels will give immediately the further ones will be based on the time of concentration, is it okay? Yes, these are the problems with modeling. I can you know put it this side but no let us accept our limitations, let us accept our shortcomings, let us accept our ignorance and let us be, yeah it has shifted me, I do not really see they say it is initial shift it can be done but I said okay whatever that has been done I kept it, I agree with you whole thing has been shifted and you can see sometimes SCSCN has behaved better than the other one, do you agree? That is it, so it does not mean that you know the distributed models are bad because they do not behave well because the whole, the philosophy behind the flow, the unsteady flow equations they are solved there but it is nothing here, so that is it sometimes you know that is what we say when you know what is it, Jeffery? This is storm 1, this is storm 2, you it is you know in this at least only thing is you can say but when storm 1 is okay how does the storm 2 differ? That is the inherent problems with the thing, so that is for the storm 2, you can see that remote sensing that in 0.2 s, 0.3 s have been altered and seen but that is what observed to the thing, see not much of a difference it did not make very little difference if you in terms of actual values if you see there is slight difference but not significant difference, what is acceptable is it calculated one is observed sorry I will look at here, so this is observed and this is calculated other two but not with observed, so what is now how good what type of model can exactly match, it is like you know see nature cannot understand my mathematical problems, my modeling problems can it understand, there is no way, I have limitations in that and it cannot be even more wildly bigger model even if I create I do not think I will be ever able to unless you know something is done okay as he said shift this side I can no I mean he does not say that but he said it shifted that is it, so I think in that is it we have our own limitations in our intelligence, our modeling in anything that we do because it is not unlimited because truth is never known to extend a little further tell me how yeah you want to say something, you did not say I am saying I could have shifted easily but that is the equation given I do not want to whatever it is we should accept that we are imperfect so the model developed if human beings are imperfect so the model developed by them that's it what what yeah that plays a problem I agree with you because that is another question which I didn't discuss yeah I will before that we will talk about the data itself please remember because I should not go forget yeah year off it was not exactly the same year I agree with you it was a year or two later but then there are papers which say in a rural setting there may not be much difference in the land use land cover because that particular year we couldn't get the data that is it otherwise it should be close enough if possible in the same I agree with you but in a rural setting of that in fact the dam was not built subsequently damn was built so there could be some change I agree with you but whether it is significant enough but that is the limitation yeah I agree with you that is one anything else then let me finish this whatever I wanted to say one is the data that we get these sacrosan is absolutely right I mean I am not saying this but if you look at one of the columns of Indian Times of India some last year or so that Times reporter says that there was no rain but the you know it was reported as something very much you know the reason so this fellow went to the guest house where you know these what is that called inspection bungalows no hi bees so he stayed there and he tried to find out the reason you see without that how is that they are getting the same so you found that watchman son is using it so you can imagine so that is I am not saying without any data there is no way but to say that it is 100 percent right also we are not sure if you see watchman mostly it is you know he takes a reading one day unless it is auto recording if he misses the peak of river gaging or even the rainfall if the rainfall overflows in fact there are cases when I tested with some of the rainfalls outflow is more than the infill you tell me so what I mean is what is absolutely right sometimes but what is the basis we should have something so that is the basis but otherwise it is very difficult to say whether it can be attributed to the modeling deficiency whether it can be attributed to human deficiency whether it can be attributed to the data with which we are comparing in the absence of a certainty that it is so I am not saying I accept my deficiency I don't say that but what I mean is every modeler should be aware of that you know your data so what is the best thing then you should go to the field collect the data and all that unless there is a good interaction between the field agencies and the agencies which are involved with the modeling it becomes a very difficult thing to say because every step that you should be able to do so it is difficult to say what you know is that but nonetheless it should you should keep on improving in the type of the modeling that it is there depending upon the feasibility and that any questions so is it useful remote sensing even for a model which we talked about you know black box models and all that it doesn't matter what is the model model is something which you have to choose based on the you know data that you have capability that you can generate the model or your liking or the need whatever it is but nonetheless these remote sensing techniques and GIS can be used to a great extent to facilitate the you know data problem because the ground truth data is always expensive time consuming so can we use this data for the you know these sources for as a data you know that is at best that we can do I normally dedicate any of my lectures to the teachers of ester years with on whose shoulders that we are standing today for that matter teachers of the present to all of you to my students who are going to be potential teachers of tomorrow so because it is with them whether it is a KG school teacher or a high school teacher or a college teacher or an m tech PhD teacher everybody has contributed in their measure whatever may be the measure to our success in whatever whether you call success or failure so I always feel that it should be you know because of them that we are here we see teachers means everybody is a teacher for that matter parents everybody whom we interact we learn something from them so it is teachers of all including Gadi Guru that it is one thing finally that I would like to say is all that what we do is forever survival forever welfare right forever up being going up in terms of money position power whatever it is but I think we should do something for this society in whatever measure you are what is it if you are capable of giving something with your time with your body your physical do it then say say what man say bale which are if you can't at least wish them well because ultimately it is not one person who is very you know reach can solve the societal problem society has to be safe means every section has to be or done if you have money you don't have time and all that use it for some welfare class it doesn't matter even if you don't have money we can always teach one each one teach one whatever way it is I think we should show that the society even Dr. Narayan Murthy says in one of his lectures in the here said societal welfare is important it is no doubt because ultimately health your health depends upon it's not only physical mental psychological whatever it is and spiritual health unless all sections of society are safe they get two square meals a day at least it would be difficult so I think keep that in mind and conserve is the fine finally we may not be implementable wherever that can be conserved should be conserved okay so any questions if it is a concrete road like a paving park completely then the moment it drops it flows away and it is quick also because time of constant because the roughness factor is very less so it can flow quickly that can be closer to hundred exact hundred is difficult to say but very close to hundred I told you that absolutely exactly hundred that can last actually that is a good idea that time we didn't had so we generated probably it can be a GUI you know the graphical interface can be probably yes now they are generating now it can be generated with all these your drainage can be generated but this can be put as one of the units possible you choose the model that is what I think we have done already why in uh these uh yeah many really we fm and all that we have one GUI we we are finalizing that with the distributed model of even overland flow and channel flow the GUI is being developed it is possible you just click there you need not know what the program runs right you choose one of the infiltration models and give the data that's it whatever the data even the data it will ask and then you can see or read it from input file so that is there possible additions he's a groundwater man okay that is fine that is fine any other question floods see what is important is rainfall you should have correct during you mean real time real time means yeah I always feel that you know this is one what normally I should talk in the class real time what are the requirements number one the data of remote sensing in optical spectrum is not possible what is optical spectrum visible spectrum visible spectrum is 0.4 to 0.7 so band 1 2 3 4 those are not possible what is possible even infrared is not possible because atmosphere gets you know obstruct that so what is possible is microwave microwave is possible that type of data you should have that means what I should use the radar for the rainfall it should be calibrated of course that should be used real time means what you should be able to say what is the rainfall immediately and this database that should have been prepared little earlier because somebody may ask during the rainfall what is the dam in land use land cover so it has to be little earlier that base you should have and then put this as p you should be able to do it but only thing is you should be able to measure the rainfall during that time that is it actually whether it is a total quantum of rainfall or the distribution of sorry not rainfall in terms of runoff is important in case of flood studies so that you get a hydrograph you know what is the peak it is going to be it is not the total what is important there totally is important for some other purpose peak is important and if you want to generate in real time you should be able to get the rainfall during that time then it can be done that means all things should be linked up what I mean is that is the same thing I have done as uncalibrated that is why I have used CWC values in case I am no value is not there based on the rainfall runoff both are required for calibration so if I do not have I have used that those values and then did some of these graphs I have not presented here because I did not concentrate more on the modeling with respect to the numerical method here yes there is there is restriction there is restriction of the land use land cover what Mishraji says is for that matter even the US handbook says is for forested catchments it is not and small area maybe this is I have I don't remember maybe that book is with me I can check because after that I didn't try to I mean attempt SCSN because the distributed models we are with so I am not sure about the area but I can tell you based on that because bigger the thing is these phenomena are not properly you know simulated no see nothing you see it is only like a black box model that's it no oh see that is another good question which I I that's why I thought okay it should be open for questions now one thing a matter of two three hours these are all the storm events that have been done in those two three hours in the midst of rainfall as she said the evaporation loss although will be there but it will be very minimal it it can be incorporated but it was not incorporated in this model initially that's what I'm telling you it can be it can be near 200 I am not saying exactly 100 exactly 100 is not possible in fact even evaporation less can be incorporated that p gets reduced that's it it can be incorporated but this has not been incorporated in this state no but it will be very minimal we have tried even in that interception loss based on the you know the leaves that is it but you know it is not that effective but it can be done it can be you can always incorporate any of these which small events effective rainfall yeah these all goes under that last rate it can but if you want to be very particular go ahead and thank you very much