 Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are in the world. I would like to welcome you on behalf of both the World Economic Forum and the Mission Possible Partnership to our climate breakthroughs, the road to COP and beyond session and particularly this hydrogen for climate session. This today's event is being run in partnership and at the invitation of the COP26 presidency high-level champions who we are delighted to partner with and is very much looking at that. How do we trigger systemic change and systems change? I'm ready to put today into context and particularly the critical role of hydrogen in the broader industry transition. I would like to hand over to my co-executive director for the Mission Possible Partnership, Faustine De La Salle, the executive director of the Energy Transitions Commission, as well as co-executive director of the Mission Possible Partnership, Faustine. Thank you very much, Anthony. It's a pleasure to be with you all today and I'm really looking forward to today's panel. I wanted to quickly introduce to remind ourselves of the importance of hydrogen in the context of the transition to net zero emissions that we are discussing today with the aim of seeing COP26 really unlocking change in that trajectory towards net zero emissions. As we all know, to reach net zero emissions by mid-century, we need a completely reshuffling of our energy system. We need a massive scale-up in clean energy provision. One of the key pillars of that transition, and we've recently as the Energy Transitions Commission published a report on that subject, is clean electrification. Clean electrification will really be the massive underpinning for the transition towards net zero emissions, but there are a range of sectors where clean electrification is not currently possible. That includes a number of the sectors that we are particularly addressing and looking into via the Mission Possible Partnership. Those include heavy industry sectors, heavy duty transport sectors, heating, both residential and industrial. Those sectors need to find solutions beyond electricity. Hydrogen really appears like the potential key solution to those sectors alongside sustainable biomass and alongside carbon capture. In our own ETC projections, we consider that hydrogen might represent up to 15 percent of final energy demand by mid-century, and another 5 percent or so might be provided by fuels actually built from hydrogen. Hydrogen has this advantage that it can be produced in different ways from renewables, but also from gas. It's combined with carbon capture, and it has the flexibility that it can be transformed into other things, like ammonia less than 10 percent of all the range of sectors across the economy. The key challenge we're facing really is the scale-up of that clean energy provision. Today, clean energy provision, so low carbon energy provision, represents less than one million tonne globally, and we need that to be brought to potentially up to 800 million tonne by mid-century. This is a massive scale-up that we are talking about today. That massive scale-up really needs to be unlocked in the 2020s. If we act too late, it will be impossible to raise those levels of production high enough to meet our mid-century targets. So the discussion today, and I'm really looking forward to hear all of our panelists on the subject, is how do we unlock that scale-up in the 2020s to really ensure that we can meet those mid-century targets? In our latest ETC report on hydrogen, we've laid out that there are three critical things that need to happen in the 2020s. One is to scale up volumes of production to really unlock economies of scale. We need to bring down the cost of hydrogen below $2 per kilogram, the cost of clean hydrogen. But growing production volumes will be insufficient if there's no demand for those volumes. And so there's really a chicken and egg issue that needs to be cracked thanks to collaboration across the value chain to really understand how we grow at the same time the production side, but also the consumption side across multiple sectors. We will need multiple sectors to be demanding clean hydrogen before 2030 to really enable that whole value chain to be built up. And we will also need progressively to develop transport and storage infrastructure both on a local basis and on a global basis. So a lot to be done, a lot that will require skill sets from across the whole hydrogen value chain. And I'm really looking forward today to hear from our panelists how this can be done and what the role of their different companies will be in that process. Anthony, a pleasure to hand over to you to run us through that panel. Thanks a lot again for having us today. Fasting, thank you. And we have an excellent panel of experts and business leaders to talk about this critical topic. Before I introduce our panelists and get into our conversation, I would just like to encourage you, the audience to take part as well. And you can do that by using Slido. So if you put your phones up to the QR code or you bloggingslido.com and use the hashtag climate breakthroughs, you can then submit questions which we can then take on board and put to our panelists in the second part of our discussion. So please do that. Now, without further ado, as they always say, I'm going to quickly introduce our panelists. And then I have a question for each of them to get us started. So we have, we're very, very lucky indeed to have Jean Carlos Chauvet, the Minister of Energy from Chile. We are again privileged to have Catherine McGregor, the CEO of EngiGuru with us on the panel today. And now I think we feel like old hands. Mads, you and I have been on a number of these panels in the last year or so. Mads, Nipper, the CEO of Hosted. An amazing story. One of those companies that has really transformed itself in recent years. And Bern Hyde, the senior partner, a senior partner at McKinsey who leads McKinsey's work on hydrogen. And I understand has worked very closely with Chile and developing their strategy. Very much looking forward to hearing more about that. And Magnus Ankerstrand, Executive Vice President for Clean Uponia at Yarra International. You know, I think in a few years time, we will be talking about a very exciting transformation and story around that, Magnus. So looking forward to hearing more. Minister, I'd like to start with you, if I may. Chile has emerged as one of the world's key leaders in the future of the green hydrogen economy. So why is that? What does your country see as its strategic advantage in green hydrogen to be so bullish about it and to really sort of invest in this future? And what do you think needs to happen for other countries to join you in this global movement? Well, thank you, Anthony. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, everyone. It's great to be here with you. A sustained greatly summarized. We think green hydrogen is like the missing link to be covered neutral by 2050, right? So in Chile, we're doing what many countries are doing. We're cleaning our electricity generation capacity to then use that clean and cheap electricity to replace fossil fuels across our economy in transportation, heating industries and so on. But that plan that works pretty well has that problem, right? That we I mean, there are certain sectors that are very hard to electrify and green hydrogen would be essential there, right? In our case, mining, for example, which is our biggest industry they need to replace diesel that they use in their trucks. And green hydrogen looks as the best option to do that. And that is true in shipping, which is very important for us. We are a very open economy, but distant from export markets. So the carbon footprint in shipping, it's going to be very important. We have a big agricultural industry. So clean fertilizers produced from hydrogen would be very important as well. So green hydrogen would be very important to clean our own economy, but also opens a great opportunity to export our natural resources to the world. Chile probably has one of the best natural resources to produce clean electricity. We have in terms of quantity and quality, right? In terms of quantity, we have identified 1,800 gigawatts of potential resources to produce clean electricity. And we consume around 25 of those, right? So we need to find ways to export that to the world. So we have a lot of resources, and those resources are very good. We have capacity factors in solar PV of over 37% in the north, in the Atacama Desert. And wind factors onshore, especially in Marallanes, of over 70%. And since the cost of electricity is essential to reduce the cost of producing green hydrogen, we are probably in the pole position to produce cheap green hydrogen quickly so that we can replace fossil fuels with green hydrogen. So we're working very aggressively to use those resources to produce green hydrogen in its derivatives, green ammonia, synthetic fuels, to export those resources to the world. I think we have other things that are important, the stable business environment, a very well-developed electricity market, and others that we can come back later in the Q&A. I think many other countries are joining this industry as well. But since cost is the biggest driver, especially in this early stage, those countries that have the best natural resources will probably be in the best position to join in first. But we are cooperating with many other countries. This is not a race, a competition between countries. The way we see it is a competition between all countries together against fossil fuels in a way, right? So we need to accelerate the development of this industry. We're cooperating with many other countries that have good resources to try to break through all the challenges we have that we can come back later in the Q&A. Minister, thank you. And I like that it's not a race against each other. I think in many ways it's a race. We all need to win collectively and together. And collaboration is an incredibly important part of that. Catherine, if I could turn to you, if I may, your company is an active member of the Hydrogen Council, a global initiative of companies with long-term ambition for hydrogen to foster the clean energy transition. As a major European utility, AMG also has a role to play in driving electrification efforts forward. And as we know, if we're going to decarbonize the harder-to-abate sectors, we've not only got to clean up the current power supply, we've got to increase it by somewhere in the region of eight times what it is today, by 2050. So how do you see your company's role in contributing to this broader movement, the sort of collaboration that the minister outlined that we need to provide cheap and widely accessible green hydrogen? Yeah, no, sure. Thank you. Thank you very much for the question. Thank you for reminding also our contribution to the participation to the Hydrogen Council. We were actually also quite active in the Energy Transition Commission as part of the effort that you are co-hosting. So very nice to be here. Last week, in fact, at AMG, we shared with the financial market a strategy update where we made several announcements. One of them was a carbon neutrality horizon to 2045 on all scopes. And as part of that, we contributed or we gave more color on our core exit plan, which included, by the way, minister, you know, the plan that we have in Chile to exit core and add quite a bit of capacity in renewables. So, you know, that was the carbon neutrality in action and putting Chile as a centerpiece. So that was a nice event. Other announcements during that strategic update that I gave was indeed a strong ambition in renewables capacity, which is obviously going to be very important when we get to the green hydrogen. So what we said is that at AMG, we're going to be very focused on renewables, energy and infrastructure. And while we do that renewable electricity infrastructure, we are also helping the carbonizing our customers. So this is what we do at AMG. And we have a history of being very strong in gas. So we have, you know, gas skills, gas infrastructures, and we are becoming and developing very strong at electricity. And when you take these two characteristics of gas on one hand and electricity on the other hand, the two meet and then you get to hydrogen. So the green hydrogen specifically was quite a centerpiece of a strategic update. Indeed, you know, a whole ambition, thinking a lot about the affordability of energy as a very, very important condition for the future of this energy transition. You know, we talk a lot about supply. We talk a lot about reliability. Affordability for our citizens is going to be very important. So the whole question on green hydrogen is indeed affordability. And here you really have these two components. You have the cost of the electrolyzers, which is really all around the technology, the manufacturing. And then of course, you have the cost of the renewable electricity. And this is where we have a lot of ambition. So what we're doing at AMG is that we're focusing on all the value chain of the green energy, the green hydrogen. So starting on the renewable side, where we have actually already today a pipeline of about 70 projects. And we have said that we have an ambition of having in production in 2025, 600 megawatt of green hydrogen getting to four gigawatts in 2030. So just to give you an idea of the ramping up and, you know, we have concrete solid pipeline for this project. So we have line of sight on how we're going to get there. So it's going to be really important from a production standpoint. And then of course, another aspect, which is going to be around transport and storage, where we find that one of the key secret of the economic side of green hydrogen production is that you will have to produce green hydrogen where cheap renewable economic renewable energy can be produced. And that might not necessarily be at the same place where you need the green hydrogen. And so the whole story of transportation and storage is going to be quite critical. And this is one aspect that we feel needs to be addressed, you know, from a ecosystem standpoint. So whether it's pipe, whether it's a transporting green hydrogen as is as a gas or as a proxy for hydrogen, ammonia, etc. So a lot of work needs to happen there. And we are doing a lot of work and energy setting, setting ambition very much towards the transportation and the storage as well. So we have a good plan, very, very good plan, enabled by ambitious renewable targets. And that's, you know, how we feel we will contribute to the development of a green hydrogen market. Very much looking forward to that. Thank you. Catherine, thank you very much. Next, I want to turn to you, Madsen. A lot of people forgot earlier in your career, you were a power behind reinventing Lego and making it one of the global phenomenons it now is. And then you moved on to help him to reframe manufacturing in Denmark and led the initiative on how to sort of transform manufacturing. And now you've taken over a company that has had its own amazing journey from, you know, people forget it was the Danish oil and natural gas company. I mean, it is now one of the world's leading offshore wind companies, I mean, an amazing transformation into a leading renewable energy company. And now hydrogen, potentially the next powerful story. I mean, the wonderful thing about Lego is you can build something and then you can take it apart and turn it into something completely different. So tell us about how hydrogen can help us do that in the global economy and help industry reinvent themselves as net zero sectors. So what is the next step transformation of your company and how does hydrogen play a part in that and perhaps even the sort of global ambitions that you have as a company? And how do you think you can play a role in mainstreaming decarbonization within the energy sectors and industrial sectors around hydrogen and clean energy? Thanks a lot, Anthony. There was enough material for a couple of hours there, but I'll do it very quickly. No, thanks a lot. For the people who are on this session that don't know or said this exactly like Anthony said, this is what used to be the Danish oil and natural gas company. And less than 10 years ago, we were one of Europe's most fossil fuel intensive utilities. And we made a very dramatic choice not just to make a slow transformation, which may be referencing what's happening this week in the courtrooms and boardrooms of the world, but we actually decided to make a radical transformation of our business model. And we are now more than 90% all of our energy production is now more than 90% based on renewables by far the majority of that in offshore. We are not just one of but a clear number one in offshore. And we actually like to see ourselves as what we chose to do at the time. And I can say that because I was not part of it was something that actually probably played a key role in proving that offshore is not only possible technologically, but it's competitive and a cornerstone of the renewable energy transformation. So, but the danger of our company is that if we say now we are through our transformation and it's just all about everybody else doing the same, we see ourselves as in constant transformation. And one of the next legs on that transformation is green hydrogen. Because like everybody so far I've already talked about the hard to evade sector simply need this to happen. And we believe very much in apart from bold visions where we actually want to be a leader in this field globally. We believe very much in acting our way into a new way of thinking and start doing things. So, we actually at this stage we have a tangible pipeline of three and a half gigawatts of green hydrogen projects together with lots of leading offtake partners because this is really important. It's not just about production. Of course, there are many production related challenges, but it's really about linking up and partnering with the key offtake partners. And then a mountain from Yara is here. Yara is a key partner and one of our most ambitious undertakings which is a gigawatt scale green hydrogen project in Holland Belgium together with also Arsalaumetal with Zealand refinery and with Dow chemicals. So some of the world's largest offtakers in a very heavy industrial cluster and we are working now to make it possible to get to a gigawatt scale within this century or this decade of course. And that would take two gigawatts of offshore that doesn't exist. So we need to scale dramatically scale renewable energy. Happy to hear the minister saying that Chile has an excess, but in other parts of the world it really is about accelerating the availability of affordable energy because it is already competitive, but there are many scarce resources in terms of seabed and regulatory frames. So we actually see green hydrogen as a new offshore and we believe it's doable, but we do need and this is where we're also trying together with as many sort of like-minded companies and people as we can. We need to ensure that the incentives and policy frames are there because it's a little bit of the chicken and the egg is that we all know that competitiveness of this in terms of price only comes with scale, but we don't get to scale unless we get it off the ground. And that is where production-based incentives are really vital for an interim period of time and if we get that support in terms of regulatory frameworks and also sort of level playing field in terms of taxes and transmission fees, this will scale and it will happen before the end of this century and Austin will play an absolute key part of that as a leading player. So Mads, thank you, inspiring as always. Ben, if I may turn to you, we've heard a lot about collaboration and transformation and I mean, that's at the heart of McKinsey's business, helping your clients to transform and deal with all the changes that the world throws at them. And we've seen amazing transformations already and we're seeing them play out with wind and solar and the cost of those technologies having dropped dramatically. As a result of just the sort of public-private collaboration we've heard from both the minister and Mads described. And you lead a team on hydrogen and McKinsey that's been instrumental in getting strong hydrogen analysis out there, both in terms of application, pathways, emissions and finance requirements. So in your assessment, how do we not only replay that movie that we've seen with wind and solar and our electric vehicles and batteries, but speed it up and get the cost of hydrogen down? And how far do you think we are from doing that? And let's just pick a threshold, $2 a kilogram. How do we get away from that and when do you think we will get there? Thank you, Antonin. I think you hit on straight to the million dollar question of the cost of hydrogen and that transition. So what we did maybe a bit of context. So McKinsey worked together with the members of the Hydrogen Council. So we heard about the council that's a CEO-led initiative where companies along the full value chain work together in a collaborative way to get the hydrogen transition going. So these are 109 companies around the globe. McKinsey facilitated a clean team and an antitrust-compliant ring-fenced environment where we collected real industry data to calculate exactly these trade-offs. So what we did is we took 25,000 data points from the companies in that industry and more or less did different calculations. So in this work we analyzed we found that hydrogen can be cost-competitive earlier than we anticipated before we did that work. So we come down to levels of $2 per kilogram before the end of the decade. And just as a reference today, hydrogen from renewable energy is somewhere at the range of depending on where you are and what endowment with renewables you have between four and six U.S. dollars per kilogram. So the four to six come down to two U.S. dollars until the end of the decade. And we even see places and you heard Minister Jobet speaking of Chile. Chile has great endowment with both wind and solar. We will see places like Chile coming down to $1.3 U.S. dollar per kilogram but we have also other places. Think of Spain, Middle East, North Africa, Australia, even parts of the U.S. where hydrogen costs from renewables are well under $2 U.S. dollar or $1.5 U.S. dollars. So what brings us down to these levels? First of all, it is important to have this endowment with cheap renewable energy both wind and solar. And second, it's the scaling of these electrolyzer capacity that we heard from Catherine or Mats or Juan Carlos. So today we have roughly a global installed electrolyzer capacity of somewhere 200 to 250 megawatts. That's tiny. This will be projected to grow somewhere in the range of 100 gigawatts until the end of the decade. So 200 megawatts to 100 gigawatts. That's a factor of 500 in the increase. And this increase in capacities also the key driver of bringing down the cost of these machines. Today they range between 700 to 1000 U.S. dollar per kilowatt of installed capacity. And this will come down to levels of let's say 300 and under 400 U.S. dollar per kilogram. That's more than cutting it in half. And the interesting thing is this is not due to a new technology. We have alkaline technology, we have also PEM technology that will stay. But it's more that scaling of the manufacturing processes that today are more like in a single unit goes to flow processes. So that brings down the cost. And why is this two U.S. dollar as a critical threshold so important? On the one hand, this enables a lot of use cases where hydrogen then becomes more cost competitive than today's conventional technology, think of diesel or natural gas, or even more competitive than for example the next best alternative, think of battery electric. And we have a whole array of applications that is trucking, that is shipping trains, that's even synthetic fuel for aviation, that's industrial use cases like steel, that's ammonia production, that's feedstock in industry and all of these use cases will be enabled with with cheap hydrogen. And then a second point to close off this low cost production of hydrogen is also an enabler for a systemic energy transition because you can connect places with endowment of great renewable power, like I mentioned earlier, to demand centers that do not have that cheap energy. So we see hydrogen as an additional energy vector in the mix, so you can think of that almost like this enables exporting of sunshine and wind, something that we cannot do with electrons alone. Bern, that's wonderful. And your last point I think is a fantastic one. Today many of us have grown up in a world where countries with historic endowments of fossil fuels are linked through various transport hubs and routes to the industrial part of the world, and you're painting a picture of a world where those countries endowed with huge amounts of wind, solar, renewable energy will be linked through hydrogen to those industrial centers, which I think is incredibly exciting. And you also touched on the use of these fuels. I mean, in many ways, these are the options that many of today's incumbents have, and if they follow the trailblazing paths of Orsted and energy, they will move into these new fuels. But it's also a great opportunity for new players to move out of other sectors and into the energy sector. And Magnus, you represent just such a company. So Yara is known for the agricultural and food sector. But here's a huge opportunity for your company in energy. So how do you see yourself playing a role in transforming sectors such as shipping through green ammonia from their sort of quite current carbon intensive mode of power to actually creating a whole new maritime sector, as someone said recently in Arganitazera Coalition Workshop, is as big as a shift. Shifting from the current fossil fuel engines to ammonia is as big a shift as going from sale to steam. So how do you anticipate paying a role as a company in that transition? Thank you for that question. And first of all, thank you for having me as a part of this very distinguished panel. I think for us to work in the fertilizer industry and the ammonia business, this all seems very evident to us. But obviously ammonia is not necessarily a product that's well known globally. But so in that context, it's probably worth mentioning that as the world's largest ammonia producer, we are also actually one of the world's biggest hydrogen producers because hydrogen as well as nitrogen is the key component in ammonia and the way ammonia is produced today in an ammonia facility, an ammonia plant. Actually the front end of the plant produces hydrogen and the back end and then takes the hydrogen and nitrogen and produces ammonia. And interestingly, if you go back almost 100 years, we actually produced ammonia with electrolysis. That's how we started producing ammonia in the first place. And actually our last ammonia producing facility based on electrolysis was closed down as late as in the early 90s. So in many ways, this is back to history. And of course, the reason that electrolysis was faced out was because natural gas came and steam methane reforming came as a cheaper alternative. I think the key role that ammonia can play in the hydrogen space and not just as one application, but as a very important early application is of course that ammonia is a significant carrier of hydrogen and it's a very good carrier of hydrogen. In a volume unit of ammonia, we can store 1.5 times the energy than in a volume unit of hydrogen. And also from a transportation point of view, it needs to be cooled down to 33 minus 33 degrees to be liquefied as opposed to minus 253 degrees. So there are some characteristics with ammonia that makes it very attractive. The other part of ammonia is of course also that it can be used directly as an application. For instance, as a shipping fuel, you don't have to crack it back into hydrogen to make that happen, which of course is also an alternative in the future where ammonia can play a role. But I think in particular in the shorter run, the direct application of ammonia to new uses is important. The fertilizer industry obviously can be a huge off-taker going forward and producing green fertilizer. But as you mentioned on the shipping side, it's really where we see a significant opportunity and a totally new market for ammonia and hence hydrogen. And obviously there needs to be a technological shift. There need to be dual fuel engines in place and so on. But this is technology that is quite near. And we have big engine producers today actually working very actively and having prototypes in place. So we believe very firmly that the technology of this will develop. And in that play, ammonia can play, ammonia will we believe be a very competitive zero emission shipping fuel. There are others of course as well, but from a cost perspective, and particularly in a world where we bring the cost of hydrogen down to $2 per kilo, that would be a very competitive zero emission fuel for the shipping industry as such. And as the other part of the question, as an enabler for hydrogen, of course, has been mentioned many times, there are a lot of things that need to fall in place for hydrogen to take off. I think that the willingness and the belief for it to happen is definitely there. But of course you need the technology development, the scaling and to bring the cost down. But you also need the logistics to work and incentives along the value chain and so on. And the benefit of ammonia is that to a very, very large extent, the infrastructure and logistics of that market already exists. So put it a little bit black and white and simplified. The day you exchange the steam ethane or former with the electrolyser, basically the rest of the value chain for the ammonia is there all the way down to the end user. Obviously, there needs to be a market developed on the end user side, on the shipping side. But using ammonia as the carrier takes away a lot of the different obstacles in the value chain and the logistics chain in between. And finally, as we believe, of course, that ammonia will be a application and not the only application of hydrogen. We do believe that in the next decade, in order to bring hydrogen to the scale, ammonia will play a very, very important role. And we believe that particularly the shipping industry is a great area where you both get the benefit of abating the CO2 at the ammonia production, but also the emissions from the vessels. Magnus, thank you for making that link and segue into the shipping session after this one. Minister, if I could come back to you next week, I think you are hosting both the clean energy ministerial, the same ministerial, and also the mission innovation ministerials. Innovation is incredibly important. And governments in the public-private collaboration that we've touched on, we increasingly, I think, realise that governments play an important role in helping to finance early-stage innovation for any new transition and any new technology. Could you perhaps just talk a little bit about how critical innovation is to building a global hydrogen energy system? Yes, Anthony. Yes, we will be hosting SEM and MI next week here from Chile. I invite everyone to join us. We have a great lineup of speakers, so it's going to be great. So innovation, as has been mentioned, is going to be critical to scale up hydrogen at different levels. So one is electrolyzers, right? The technology is there, but we need to scale it up to reduce costs. So that is something that has been mentioned. It's going to be key. Second, as was mentioned as well, on different applications, right? So how do we use green hydrogen or ammonia in shipping, in heavy-duty transportation, in electricity generation itself, as the Japanese are increasingly doing. And synthetic fuels are going to play a very important role here as well. So when we talk about green hydrogen, actually, we talk about green hydrogen itself, and ammonia, and ecofuels, right? So for example, there, direct air capture is going to be essential to have a stable flow of carbon dioxide to produce those fuels. So innovation will be here as well, and logistics, as was mentioned, right? So it's very hard to move green hydrogen around. That is the biggest challenge we have. So that's why we, most people agree, we will start moving around green ammonia as synthetic fuels. So innovation is going to be key on all those fronts. And I think this is going to take a lot of cooperation between governments and the private sector, right? So this is kind of a, the way I think about it is a puzzle, right? So different countries and companies have different pieces of that puzzle from Chile. We have the natural resources. We have the electricity sector. We will be able to provide the infrastructure, but we will not be able to develop locally, for example, the technology to have direct air capture. So we will need to have somebody to bring that technology to complement that with our resources. So these platforms, which countries and companies collaborate to find those solutions are going to be essential to scale this industry up quickly as we need. Minister, thank you. Magnus, I'm going to come back to you if I may. We're starting to get some great questions in from the audience. So I'm going to pick some of these. You are as a company. You're a global company. And by the nature of your business, you operate in many developing markets, including Africa. So I think this is a good question for you that's coming from someone in the audience. So what is the potential of hydrogen for development in regions like Africa? And how can we make sure in this new market, in this new opportunity that we build, that these regions are part of the development and the opportunity as well? I mean, I guess to some degree, it's a sort of equitable global south part of the just transition question. Yeah, no, I think that's a good and somewhat complicated question as well. I think if our business in Africa primarily is linked to downstream fertilizer, and I think in a way, from an emission point of view in with regards to emissions from fertilizer in the total footprint of agriculture and so on, there was being fertilized to play an important role. However, I think in terms of value creation, obviously, African parts of Africa as well have favorable conditions for solar and renewable energy. And I think traditionally, also significant existing gray ammonia production exists in particularly North Africa, and they are as well as had production facilities in that region. So I think as we as these markets develop, although Africa, maybe from a project perspective, it's not the easiest first projects to develop. I think over time, we should definitely make sure to to review Africa and the resources that sit there also in terms of, for instance, solar energy in terms of making projects hydrogen and ammonia projects available in Africa as well, and particularly taking use of the existing ammonia infrastructure that is already there, which of course, can be then used as natural gas is being faced up, which is of course, is also an important element for the oil and gas producing countries of Africa that rely heavily on fossil energy production in their economies where this could be a solution. Thank you, Magma. Sorry, just reviewing the many questions that are coming in. Unfortunately, we don't have, we can't really address all of the questions, but I'm trying to sort of pick a representative sample. The next question actually, Ben, I'm going to come back to you as a sort of maybe a neutral advisor, an observer, an advisor in this market. We touched on, you talked about bringing the cost down and we've heard from you and others about the need for this public-private collaboration, the right policy frameworks. This question from the audience really goes to that in many ways. What is your view on the policy support schemes for hydrogen development? What kind of regulatory framework and enabling measures are needed to support the growth of hydrogen? I guess in many ways, achieve those cost reductions you talked about. So first of all, and actually we, as we speak, we do a policy scan across the globe and look for the impact of these policy measures onto the hydrogen economy. The statement number one is we do not believe structurally in subsidies or support if there is no fundamental business case. So if there is no long-term viability of these cases, it doesn't make sense. And that being said, of course, we have an economic deficit as we speak because electrolyzers first need to come down. A lot of these applications need to be developed. So we see a whole array of different mechanisms around the globe. Think of some governments support the delta of hydrogen production cost today versus what it needs to break even. So think of that as like contracts for difference. You have other tax exemptions that support the deployment of hydrogen, but there are also infrastructure build-up measures. Think of port terminals and like. And of course, there is a massive support and we see a lot of that happening right now in Europe, under the European Korean deal, where we support the build-up of both screen and blue hydrogen production capacities. And I think that is important for the next few years. We generally also believe that this will less be needed, let's say at the end of the decade, because there's an intrinsic positive business case in that. And we just need to get through that initial investment period. Thank you, Bernd. Mads, I'm going to turn to you. A former colleague and friend commented on my LinkedIn this week when sharing this event. My God, not another talk shop. We need to get on and we need real action on the ground. And this is very much, I think, what the mission possible partnership is about. About landing some very concrete sexual agreements or as our high-level champion partners in this, like to say, these race to zero breakthroughs to deliver tipping points. And ultimately, this is all about pump priming systemic change. I mean, it's systems-level thinking to do that. And to really get this going in a sustainable way, we need to achieve those tipping points to play out as we're already seeing in wind and solar and electric vehicles and batteries. So we think about tipping points. And from your experience, now we've been hosted, but also your experience working on the manufacturing Danish climate partnership over the last couple of years. Where do you think early demand is most likely to come from? Is it specific sectors? Or do you think like shipping that we've heard about from Magnus and we're here about in the next session? Or is it a combination of sectors? And if so, which ones? I think it could very well come from sectors that are under some pressure or under the highest pressure to decarbonize. So take refineries, chemical industry. I have very little doubt that those would be amongst the first. Out of principle, I think that we ought to strive for deploying green hydrogen and also the the e-fuels or green fuels coming from it furthered out the value chain, where it has the highest abatement value. So the principle where it eliminates most greenhouse gas emissions. But I think the sectors where it's going to be most like those under the biggest pressure. And I think every sector has its pioneers. And I think the green steel initiative that's been announced in northern Sweden is putting an entire industry hugely under pressure. I think our fellow Danish men masks announcement that by 2023, so in two years time, they will have the first emissions free vessel on the sea. This is something where companies like like I will immodestly say that Öster did with offshore wind. This is where the companies that are leaning out into shorter term very bold ambitions can actually drive systemic change. But nobody can do it alone. And this is where I think these partnerships where again, I mentioned what my team does with when Magnus's teams on combining sort of massive renewable energy generation with a huge sector like ammonia. How can we work across sectors to create new solutions for those industries that need it the most? But in short, my answer is probably the fastest are going to probably going to be those under most pressure refineries chemical. But I think shipping heavy transport steel is going to come very shortly after. Yeah, no, exactly. And I mean, this session is not about the chemical sector, but in our low carbon emitting technologies group, the chemicals initiative under Mission Possible, you know, the first really exciting pilot project that's come out of that initiative is one between I think BSF, SABIC and LIND to build the world's first electronic steam cracker. And, you know, it's examples of those sort of very concrete pilots and pieces of technology that we need. And then governments to step in and support the scale up of those technologies as business proves as possible. Absolutely. And Catherine, I'm going to come to you now. And this is a question I could very well put to government to Minister JoVette. But I really think this is, you know, we need a business perspective on this, because there's a lot of, you know, understandably, quite often, there's a lot of skepticism out there. And we find this all the time when we talk to various stakeholders, why, you know, business is not going to do this. It's not in business's interest. But as we see day in, day out, it actually is because this is about the future for business and about maintaining viable companies. So as you assess the sort of the landscape, and you look at this in terms of, you know, meeting your, the interests of your stakeholders, what do you assess as being the one opportunity that needs focused multi-stakeholder collaboration to unlock and materially contribute to achieving those breakthroughs in the context of, you know, the climate negotiations at the end of this year? So how can business really be part of that collaboration alongside governments to help raise collective ambition as we go into COP26? Yeah, I mean, it's a very vast question. I think, you know, one indeed has to realize that those green hydroline project require often several hundred millions of dollars of capex, right, to be able to materialize. And so collaboration is absolutely a must. And I did want, by the way, to quote that we actually have a project which is about to start with YARA in Western Australia. Yes, we are going to be producing green hydrogen to produce ammonia. So, and this is, you know, made possible through the Australian government subsidies, which is facilitating this project. This is a very nice story about collaboration and I'm taking the opportunity of Magnus to be on the panel to quote this, this interesting because, you know, we have seen a lot of governments packages indeed, you know, very much targeting hydrogen. So the one thing here that I would ask is that those subsidies and those packages get voted and get turned into reality and get to the project very, very quickly. Sometimes calendars drag so much that, you know, before you actually get the money and the financing for the project, you've lost two, three years. And I think we've all have this sense of urgency. So there is maybe one thing that we should push for, it's time. Time is of the essence, really, really important. I think we all agree that subsidies is really useful to kickstart the system. But then we have to have a bit of a long standing schemes which can withstand the test of time. And so that's really important here. Well, more thinking about CFD contract for difference are going to be indeed quite important. I would say, you know, obviously taking a bit of a European perspective here, but the CO2 price and CO2 scheme is really important because this is something that when well-established will indeed, you know, facilitate and accelerate the deployment of the green hydrogen economy and very naturally and in a kind of a fairly healthy and equitable way, if well-established. And lastly, maybe a third point, and I know you asked me for only one, so bear with me, is a little bit around the trustability because when you project an hydrogen market, you know, hydrogen flowing freely in tubes, we're going to have to make sure that this hydrogen is indeed green. So a trustability system which is pragmatic, you know, not too complicated, but at the same time rigorous because you want to be able to make sure that what is green hydrogen is actually green, what is blue is blue, what is gray is obviously not the one you want in your pipe. You know, these are the type of things that I think we should push for government to have mature the future policy or the policy that this hydrogen economy needs. Gathron, you may have made three points, but it was nicely succinct. We've got to where we need to be exactly on time. So as we go into the final five minutes of this panel, I would like to ask each of you in one minute, one sentence, to set out or to share one thing with us that makes you believe that hydrogen is here to stay and will play its role in decarbonising energy industry and transport. And I think I'm going to sort of take some chairs privilege, if I may, and put my own out there, which is that we've learned a lot from previous transitions, from that collaboration between suppliers, buyers, governments and finance in scaling and driving down the cost of technologies like wind, solar, and we're now seeing the same S curves play out for batteries, electric vehicles, that I believe we can do it better and faster with respect to hydrogen and in fact the entire industry transition. So better and faster is my contribution learning from the past. So minister, if I could start with you. Well, thank you, Anthony. It's hard to do this in a minute, but I think green hydrogen and derivatives, right? They have a combination of things that I think they make them unique in this new phase. One, as I said at the beginning, they will provide the missing link to solve our biggest challenge, which is climate change. That is very important. Second, are probably the best way to use the enormous renewable resources we have in the world, right? And to move them around if we can solve the logistics, which I think we will do. Third, I think the geopolitics of green hydrogen are pretty stable, are good, right? The resources are diversified. We will not have just like 10 countries supplying 80% of the energy as we have today. So that I think it's very important to help this industry develop quickly. And finally, I think there is a great space in which we can combine both a contribution to the fight against climate change and good business, which I think that combination is pretty unique. Minister, thank you so much, Catherine. It is hard to add something to this, right? So I would just say that I believe hydrogen movement has arrived because it is the missing link, without which the carbon neutrality to 2050 will not be possible. So it will happen. Thank you, Mad. Yeah, very quickly. I think there may be other alternatives to hydrogen in decarbonizing the things that can be electrified. But we don't have the luxury and the time to wait for those. So betting on existing and scalable technologies will happen. And we are at that tipping point. And as Ben said, this is competitive. It's not a wishful thinking. It will be competitive. And we are in a hurry because we can't negotiate with the planet. So it will happen. Thank you. Ben. I get excited around the idea that we found a new energy vector that is able to connect new sources and demand centers for energy that is able to connect different industries that are also hard to abate. And what gives me confidence that this is here to stay is we looked at the global investments. There are more than 300 projects already out there. This is a cumulative 150 billion US dollar that already has flown into that sector. And we see right now as we track that constantly, that's a billion per week. A billion per week is currently added. So that gives me confidence that we are here having a flywheel momentum that is moving. Thank you, Ben. Magnus. Yeah, I think I would emphasize that hydrogen is the energy carrier that can connect all the different renewable sources wherever they are in the world with the different users wherever they are in the world without needing groundbreaking technology either on the production side or on the user side, which turning to Matt's point is that we don't have an option to wait for something else. It works. Technology is known. It's a matter of bringing all the different pieces together and making it happen. Wonderful. Well, thank you all very much. I would like to thank all of you at Faustine for my co-executive director at the Mission Possible Partnership for opening remarks. And then each of you, Minister Catherine Madd, Spurne and Magnus for an excellent conversation, a very well-informed conversation. I have to say, at the end of this panel, I really am filled with confidence and a belief that we can do it better and faster and I think everyone's, you know, everyone's dependent on us. So thank you.