 So, everyone, welcome to the first episode of the Spokes Podcast at the Urban Cycling Institute. Today here I have with me from Lithuania. So yeah, I'm Anton Nikitin, I work for the City of Wellness Lithuania and I am the Sustainable Urban Mobility guy. And how is cycling in Lithuania? I imagine it's coming up to winter so things are getting cold, do you have any snow there? Yeah, we have a lot of snow in winter, well, it depends actually. Last couple of winters are not that bad, but yeah, the cycling is getting better, we're building networks, we've built some 50 kilometers of cycling infrastructure in the last four years and we are about to build another 70 kilometers in the next couple of years. So yeah, it's getting better. Cool, and you're here with me on the Cycloalk project, which is part of the European Union funded inter-reg stream, and what have we been doing so far? Well, the thing is that the project is about to end, basically its first phase is about to end by the end of this year, so it's year 2019 for the record, right? So the project is about cycling and walking and how do we improve our cities. And basically it's about learning about this, what can we do? We had our first meeting in Amsterdam and had this really great experience of how everything could be and then we visited all other partners, so we went to Austria, we went to Italy and Slovenia, we went to Sardinia, we went to Romania, guys came to Vilnius and we were learning from each other, what do we do, what good things we have, what bad things we have and yeah, that's probably it. Cool, and you were here in Amsterdam, well in the Netherlands, but in Amsterdam a few years ago or months ago, how did that compare to the Netherlands? I'm in love with the Netherlands. You're in love with it. I'm in love, I'm actually, well the thing is that yeah, so first time we were here, it was two years ago in April and then I happened to visit Netherlands every now every half year. Even on your own money? No. Well, yeah, I visit warmer countries on my own money, but no, but the thing is that I happened to visit on different kind of occasions and I really love it, it's, well you know, I'm always liking the weather, so I don't know. Wait, the weather is good here? Yes. People in Spain who come in Spain and Italy, this is pure suffering for them. I know, but well, I'm so lucky. I don't know, people say that it rains a lot here and there's winds and everything and I'm so lucky that it rained, I don't know, totally during my all four or five visits here, it rained totally two hours maybe. So yeah, so what are the odds, right? Uh oh, look ahead, we're having a traffic jam here. Oh yeah, okay, it's traffic. Oh, yellow light, that's white. Uh oh. Wow, good work. You did well. No, no, it's okay. We're late, we're late, we're late. It's great that. So yeah, what was the question? The question is, how do you feel about the weather given that you're from a much colder place? Yeah, so the weather is great for me, I don't know, oh we can go. So the weather is great, but the thing I enjoy most is this experience, of course, of the cycling and before visiting Amsterdam, I just, you know, you kind of, well, I love cycling from as far as I remember myself, but until you visit Amsterdam, until you sit on the bike and until you just really try what nicely designed network looks like and until you really see the rush hour and all the people going everywhere, you're like, oh, this is how it all can be. So you know, then you're so in love with the Netherlands and everything what happens here and you want to learn more. So that's what I basically do every time I visit. I take a bike, I rent a bike, I just ride around, I take pictures of all the strangest things I can take. It's a curb, it's an intersection, it's a marking, it's the asphalt, it's the piles or whatever. So, and then I bring those pictures back to Lithuania and, well, try to do not something similar but adapted to our local conditions. So Anton, how'd you get started in this whole cycling planning business and how'd you get involved in this EU project? It happened to be that I'm working as the cycling and not only the cycling person, but I started my career in transportation as a cycling project coordinator, like a cycling officer or you name it, then it really quickly expanded to cycling and pedestrian issues or topics and then it again quickly expanded as we had our SCMP approved. It really quickly expanded to all the SCMP management because, well, I think you can't have good cycling network or pedestrian comfort without this holistic approach or how you name it. You have to look at all the infrastructure and try to make safer streets, you have to make enough space and comfort for everybody. So that's, I guess, how it should be. Cool. We're going through a tunnel here. It's amazing. Oh, let's just enjoy this for a bit. So I think it's cool here because they try to fill the tunnels. And you can see I'm making pictures of people. Yeah, yeah, at the same time. That's illegal, by the way. So I'm turning this footage over for the police. I hope I'm not going to get a fine. So they shaped the tunnels at an outward angle so it makes it feel more spacious. And I was involved in this simulator project where they actually tested in virtual reality the different light spacing. So here you would have a bridge and then you would have some open air and then you have another bridge. And they were trying to figure out exactly how much open space do you need for it not to feel too much like a tunnel. Oh, wow. So they actually deliberately space out the bridges so there's light. And I'm curious what is the incline because it should be in the chrome manual. This is like very mild, right? What do you think? Well, if it doesn't look mild, but it's easy to cycle, so that's the, I don't know, everything is so easy here. It's too easy. Oh, it's too easy. Yeah, yeah. Give us some adrenaline. Yeah. They're legally allowed, but they clearly don't have speed limiters. Yeah. They're supposed to go maximum 45, but. Or is it 25? No. It should be 40 on the bike path. Wow, 40. 40 is a lot. Yeah, it is. So at the end of this EU project, what are some of the things that you're seeing to bring to your city? I think I already brought some. So we can help. So crow is one of the things. Another actually, it's not about this project, but basically inspired by this project is the Sustainable Safety, which is, well, kind of my dream that we, not completely, but really have it implemented in our city. But basically, I guess this project and these experiences, they do change the mindset of me. How it can be made, what can be done. And that's, you know, a lot of small and big things that are important. So it might be infrastructure, but as well, you know, not less important is the soft measures, all the things educational and then so on. So I think that's what I'm learning. And then, you know, design-wise, or how do we change perception. I'm also bringing it to illness from this project, yeah. I'm looking, you mentioned crow, that's interesting. I'm looking into doing a YouTube series on the book. Oh, cool. And I think that, like, what do you think about that value added for practitioners? Well, it would be great, actually. Well, you know, reading all crow, it gives you a lot of good thoughts about how the infrastructure could be planned. But the thing is, and the limitation of crow, and it's not only because of crow, that you can tell people, you know, well, I need 3.5 meters bike path or 4 meters bike path because, well, we have our plans and we will have this capacity and so on. That's one of the examples. But then the politicians or decision makers will say, well, that's wide, that's very wide. You know, what do we need to build it? And I think along crow, we have to think about changing perception of other people. So because, you know, in Netherlands, I guess there is more or less understanding that, okay, we need to follow that and then we, and that's the thing to be done. But in other countries, it's a bit different. Just because there's a manual doesn't mean people actually follow it. Yeah. And if they follow, clearly, it's school hour. Wow. So, it's interesting, there's this kid on the bike. Look how these parents are picking up their kids. I don't know if these cars are from the residents, but these bikes on the left and that school bus bike thing, the orange, that's cool. That's how that's how that's your version of school bus. So how do you think cycling here in Delft, which is a smaller Dutch city compared to cycling in the much busier Amsterdam? Amsterdam is busier, so no, actually, it's not that different. I think during the rush hour, it's also quite busy here, because we were, this morning, we were walking from our hotel and it was really, really busy, a lot of cyclists. So, and I particularly enjoy that, I know how to put it and how to describe it, but the way people move on the cycles, it's that eye contact and, you know, and just speeding up and slowing down a little bit so that it's kind of a ballet dance with the bicycles. So yeah, that's probably the, you know, it really is, it is really fascinating. Do you watch their feet, because we're on coaster brakes, actually, I want to ask, how do you feel about coaster brakes? What's the coaster brakes? It's a back pedal brake, so we've got nothing on our hands. Yeah, oh, yeah, well, it's a funny thing that I have a similar bike at home. I have the front brake, the hand front brake. They quite rarely use it, so I'm fine, but for those who never used it, it's quite challenging, I guess. Yeah. So I'm fine, but yeah. Have you paid attention to people's feet when, when you're negotiating? If they have a coaster brake, I find it much easier to see what their intentions are. Oh, no. Yeah, if you, because everyone has a coaster brake, so if you watch their feet and they go pedal backwards, then you know they're slowing down. Oh, wow. Or if they prepare to pedal backwards. That's nice. Yeah. No. Yeah, next level, that cycling. Next level. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. No, I'm just, you know, enjoying the surroundings and enjoying the quiet, actually, the quietness. Oh, here's more. I guess they get priority here. So these speed bumps here, they're, they're mostly to slow down the scooters that are going that, the really fast ones that came up from behind us a while ago. Yeah. So they put these wave things as a kind of a fun way to let the scooters reduce their speed a bit. They're not very comfortable for cyclists, too. I actually noticed the differences, you know, about all the infrastructure. So one of the differences is the speed bumps for cars in the, in these residential streets. So with them, sweet. So with them, they're so bike friendly, those speed bumps for cars and they're, they don't seem very friendly for cars, you know, so that they keep up the 30 speed, for instance. So that really fascinates me because our standard speed bump is not friendly for bicycle because you have this hit and then you jump a little bit if you're, you know, going on the bike. So there is, it's not that, that very friendly. It's more of a gentle wave pattern, right? I think it's, and actually the, the speed bump that they built here, the 30 ones, they're high enough that if you drive really fast, your suspension won't absorb all of it. Whereas if you put those tiny, but, but really the ones that are small, but they have a very high impact and you have a really big car and sometimes you can go really quickly and just drive through them. And then your suspension just takes up all of the bump, whereas these ones, it's, you have to really slow down. And they're so good for the cycle as well. And another thing actually, probably, well, the difference between Amsterdam and Delft, the cycling, so in Amsterdam people cycle closer to each other, I think because of the space. Is it too close? No, it's not close. It's fine. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. Yeah, basically because I guess, well, as, as I said, I didn't cycle here during the rush hour, the real rush hour, where everybody goes to school or work or back home. But it doesn't seem that, you know, people are cycling very close here. So because of the space problem, oh, those kids are close. Okay. Yeah, this is a nice four meter wide bike path here. Yeah. No, no challenge for space. Yeah. And have you got any other Dutch cities that you want to visit at some point? Actually, I visited Hague and Utrecht. I think I would like to go back to Utrecht one more time. I would like to go to Rotterdam, which seems, for me, that is the city that could be quite perfect to learn from. Is it very far center? Yeah. So as, you know, as a lot of European cities, so, and they're doing a lot as far as I know, and as far as I follow. So yeah, so I'd like to visit it just to see what could be made when you have wide streets and stuff. Cool. And with that, and with this traffic jam we have up here, we'll call that the end of our podcast. Yeah. Yeah. All right. That looks quick. So thank you, Anton, for joining us. Thank you. And we're going to have a blast here in Delft in the next couple of days. Cool. Take care, guys. We'll see you next time.