 and I use she, her pronouns. It's my pleasure to welcome you to the Level Up Symposium presented by the Associated Designers of Canada with support from Toaster Lab's Mixed Reality Performance Atelier. I am a member of the board of directors of the ADC and really excited to host your event today. To begin our session today, I would like to acknowledge that I am currently located on Treaty Six territory. This is the traditional lands of First Nations and Métis people. Edmonton, as it is known colonial-y, is and has been home to a diverse range of Indigenous nations and peoples including the Cree, Blackfoot, Métis, Nicodosu, Iroquois, Dene, Ojibwe, Soto, Anishinaabe, Tsutsina, Inuit, and many others. Since time immemorial, this land has been a meeting place for this diverse range of Indigenous peoples who have enriched this place with their histories, languages, and cultures. As a settler, I have benefited from Indigenous generosity, hospitality, and knowledge. 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We're really grateful to have Vlad with us today, and we're really excited to hear about this work he did for his master's thesis. Vladimir uses he-him pronouns and is a Colombian visual designer and technologist who aims to engage the sensory imagination through live performance. He's an assistant professor at Simon Fraser University School for the Contemporary Arts in Vancouver, Canada, and his work explores the adaptation of new technologies into the theatrical tradition. Interested in the development of theater spaces, show control and sonography, he's an avid learner constantly inventing and exploring. Thank you so much for joining us today for this presentation of Vlad's master's thesis work, researching into the techniques and technologies of projection design and how they can help define motion and space in performance. I'm really excited about this presentation. I know we're gonna get some really interesting and valuable context from Vlad and hear about some really exciting work that he's been doing. So without any further ado, welcome Vlad. Thank you so much for joining us today. Hi, hello. Hi, Erin. How are you? I'm doing well. We're so grateful to have you here. Thanks for giving us some of your really valuable time. I know that the screen time these days is precious, and so we're grateful that you're willing to share some of it with us. Totally. No, thank you for having me. It's very exciting to be a part of this symposium. I am very humbled to have been asked to participate in this capacity. Yeah, I'm gonna go through many different things that have been kind of ruminating over the last 12 years as a projection designer and theater maker. I've got a bunch of different examples and different images to look at. And yeah, and then I'll start to narrow down towards what I hope will be kind of a look into what was my master's thesis. I've got lots of media. I maybe have an overwhelming amount of content, but I'm excited to share. And yeah, so yeah, I'm just gonna get going. Let's do it. Thank you so much. Yeah, so like I said, I've been like, I mean, you've mentioned, I'm originally from Bogota, Colombia. I've lived in many places up and down the Americas. I've lived in San Jose, Costa Rica, Brooklyn, Connecticut, and Florida, Wisconsin, in the U.S., in Sao Paulo, Brazil, and in Canada, I've lived in Vancouver, Calgary, and Banff. Currently, I'm residing in Vancouver, B.C., where I teach at Simon Frasier and it's in my second year as a faculty member there. I've been working in the theater since high school and my mom is a painter and her family is full of architects. My father is an industrial psychologist and human resources executive. So you can say I'm like an artist that likes to work with people. You can't buy it honestly. Yeah. So I'm going to begin by sharing a quote that I think kind of as I've gone through the last, I think would say sort of 12 to 15 years of theater, theater education and theater making this quote. I just keep going back to when I actually found the original quote from my notebook and it's a quote from Paula Dancurtus, a dramaturg and producer of Live Radio and Performance, a Foley artist and teacher in Canada. I think she's currently doing her PhD at U of T and it's from a reading and it was like, what is it? What about, what is theater making about? And this quote has always struck me and I actually get emotional every time I read it. It is to engage the image of the theater and it is to engage the imagination in full dimension. It is an endeavor that includes all of the arts, music, dance, visual arts and language. The purpose is to inspire argument and inquiry into the deepest concerns of humanity, such as equality, identity, responsibility and love to consider our own lives and our own world in new ways to make theaters to create opportunity for a society to discuss its own orchestration. And to me that has always kind of inspired me and it sort of really embodies why I'm interested in making theater and participating with different collaborators. And I'm gonna kind of go through and share with you sort of some of my thoughts and through a series of projects to kind of share a series, a share kind of a unified thread. Primarily these are about process and iteration and sort of talking about the way that us as designers make theater. I will try to articulate how I think through my work and it's constantly living in an intention between the kind of artistic and the technological. Ultimately, I'll have a look at kind of peer which is a very special project for me and was my master's thesis at the Yale School of Drama. So here's just a short outline. I'm gonna kind of talk through a bit of my background. We're gonna look at many different projects in my past. We're gonna look at kind of my source material, what the process was and look into a little bit of what the performance itself was, some photographs, some of the documentation and looking into the future as to what kind of comes next in terms of these kind of projects. So this was the poster from the original production. But before we get to peer, which is what happened in 2018, I want to kind of go way back and kind of get in touch with kind of my first contact with this kind of work. I had decided when I was finishing high school in Brazil that I wanted to study lighting design at UBC and in 2007, I arrived in Vancouver and Robert Gardner was gearing up to remount the piece called Studies in Motion, which was an electric company theater show that would eventually go on tour. It was across Canada. It was directed by Kim Collier with choreography by Crystal Pite and the sonography by Robert Gardner, costumes by Mara Gottler and a sound design by Patrick Penifalle. Sitting in the sidelines and seeing this project go up like really opened my eyes to a whole bunch of concepts and staging ideas that I had never really seen before. Even though I had seen like some pretty wild stuff in Brazil and in Latin America, like this stuff was pretty new to me and pretty different. This show was inspired by the 19th century photographer, Edward Muybridge, who would kind of exhaustively photograph kind of animals and humans in locomotion and sort of began to foretell the invention of modern cinema. So my favorite parts in the show are sort of these deconstructions of movement and breaking them down kind of physically. I'm gonna try to switch over to my slideshow. Here we go. All right. So yeah, so here's some images of the kind of the Muybridge photographs originally and then one of the sequences that was so lovely, which different people would move and deconstruct the motion of someone kind of picking up a newspaper. What was also really interesting about this is that Robert was doing all of this as part of his research, which was to look at projections as a source of illumination, not just as a source of image and image making. It was looking at space. It was looking at light, but kind of this kind of intersection between these two and he always would refer to it as kind of painting with light, which I think still excites me as a concept, but at the time it was very complicated because there really wasn't kind of intuitive tools to approach that, especially with multiple outputs. And when I saw that, I decided that I kind of had to continue studying with Robert. So through a series of productions at UBC, I was able to get access to some of Robert's research materials and his projectors and his computers. I learned thisadora, a software that Robert was using to kind of approach this painting with light. He would hang several projectors all over the stage, some of them in lighting position. So sometimes there would be front light, sometimes there would be side light, top light. And as you saw in the MiBridge images, maybe I'll go back really quickly to look at the first set, that they would use sort of scrims and grids that would kind of help contextualize these spaces. So not only was he lighting the performers with the projectors, and I think in some of these instances because the projectors weren't quite that bright yet, there might have been a little bit of lighting support from a side kit, but for the most part, the goal was to, the aim was to try to light as many of the scenes with the projectors. So I kind of got caught up in this and under his mentorship, I kind of enlisted myself to one of my first large projects alongside MFA designer, Mandy Lau, who was finishing her master's at UBC at the time. And we worked with four projectors in the Telus Studio, which is kind of a long, and I have a diagram here. Kind of a very long and volumetric kind of tubular space. We hung four projectors on high angles. And the idea is that we would be able to sort of get coverage to be able to do some of the set pieces and set spaces, but also try to light some of the scenes. Again, with some success, I think ultimately, in a way that projectors were maybe not bright enough at that time, I've been experimenting a little bit more recently with brighter projectors and getting better results. Also resolution was a big question. And so this is kind of right at the edge at the border of projectors going to a higher resolution. So we were still probably working with 1024 by 768 projectors, which had these issues of like, you could see the grid of the projector lines on the performer's faces. And perhaps, yeah, that the angles that we had set up were maybe a bit too steep. But really, there was some lessons, I think, out of this project. And what was curious is that Mandi was working as the set designer. I was working as the lighting designer. Together, we were both working as projection designers on this piece, but we're kind of operating this four projector installation, and it's all running through one computer. And we're kind of running into a lot of process issues. There's no way to kind of be able to, how do you say, merge our visions in a way that we could each work individually, and then unite kind of the programming. So what I've been doing is that I'll start posting as part of some of these shows, a little bit of some of the kind of like lessons that I've learned and things that I can share that I've learned sort of the hard way. And I think I'm always getting questions as to Vlad, how did you become a projection designer? How does one become a projection designer? And I think, I always struggle with that question because it just sort of happened so naturally. So it's hard for me to say what the starting point was, but sort of, it was just sort of like getting to it on the first set of projects. And this was one of the big ones. So a couple of lessons that I learned in this particular project is that only one person can realistically work on a computer at one time. So one of the things for the future was, okay, we need to sort of separate the different departments and their approach and potentially then figure out how to network them or like everyone works independently and then you spend some time merging the show file together. And that we didn't really define a process and a procedure. So we were getting into tech and I think there was a lot of struggle trying to figure out how do we make changes? Like we were able to program scenes but by the time that we got into the theater and the scene would change or the blocking would change, it would take hours to kind of try to find the little bits of programming that would allow the scenes to be lit in a particular way or to shift or if the set had to shift without the lighting, there was kind of a, yeah, just a big separation between what was possible in terms of both accessing the same system. So I think one of the big lessons there was to try to define the process and the procedure early enough and to sort of test elasticity and flexibility with the idea that you need to make changes in tech quickly. And one of the tenets that I always keep in my mind as a production designer is that I gotta work at least as fast as the lighting designer. The lighting designer, they can only do so much work outside of the theater. They're going to be coming in with some level of preparation and they're going to be creating a lot of the looks and cues on stage and during tech time and that's the valuable time. So we want to make sure that we're not eating up more time they need as good collaborators. But yeah, so to consider how this process, how this thing that you're building to be able to accomplish the task is able to kind of change quickly, is flexible and is responsive in tech, right? And I think that's some of the questions that always come up in terms of making content for the theaters that we're kind of in this tension between trying to make something that you can sort of generate beforehand and bring in and kind of put it up and against whatever's happening on stage or is there something that you kind of have in pieces and you're bringing in and kind of assembling together with the technicians and the other collaborators or is it something that is completely malleable and it's sort of evolving as the tech is evolving, right? And we'll look at a bunch of different companies and as you'll notice through these projects, I've been working primarily in a very contemporary idiom and I haven't done a lot of like classical pieces, I've been working mostly in new works. I don't know why that is, it just sort of happened to me and so even all the way through UBC and even later into my master's, I've been mostly working kind of with new work. I also want to add that like one of the things we had an account for is that every channel of projection that you add adds a significant amount of complexity to your project. So if you have, for example, a system that only has one channel of video is going to, you're gonna have one space to focus on, you have one set of content to make and one set of content to queue but once you start adding more channels that kind of workload actually kind of increases exponentially and you find yourself kind of cornered and at that time there really wasn't a good way to preview like many outputs and so it was difficult but I think and I wish I had a good photograph of Robert's office at the time because it was just like, there was like eight monitors hanging from the ceiling above his desk kind of Jerry rigged with rope just so that you could at least see what the content would look like before you plugged in the projectors instead of the monitors. So that was kind of an early way of previewing but it was exactly, it wasn't very intuitive. It required a lot of equipment and it was certainly like very slow and so in processes where you don't have a lot of time to create and a lot of time to kind of get into the guts of something sometimes simplifying lowering the number of channels or figuring out a methodology as to how you're gonna actually edit and move and modify each of those channels independently and have their own timing is quite a challenge. The next I'll just show you this project Try Me Good King was a series of art song pieces. They were produced by Songfire Theater at UBC. They had gotten a grant to kind of take these very kind of concert pieces that were normally performed in a concert hall with a piano and give them a sonography. Normally it was just kind of a singer in a black dress next to a piano player and just very focused on the music. This experiment that was spearheaded by Tom Schult, Professor Tom Schult at UBC was giving a grant to be able to spend the summer kind of experimenting in the theater and like trying to make a mess with these kind of small operas. And so this I ended up working kind of entirely by myself. So kind of maybe grown out of some of the other experiences where I was like, well, it's so complicated to try to do everything with multiple people in one system, what if I just do everything myself? And so this became a kind of interesting experiment. I had a couple of assistants and some of the illustrations you see were done by Amanda Larder who's a set designer in Vancouver. And so I had some help, but overall I just sort of lived in the theater for a month and assembled all the set pieces, rigged all the projectors and set up my system as best as I could here. You can see if I can get this to play, let's try. This is one of the set pieces I built for it which was this kind of a pneumatic bed that would kind of lift up and reveal King Henry VIII on his bed. And it's the story sort of about King Henry VIII. He's on his death bed and the different wives that he had killed come back and haunt him. But ultimately they're performed always by the same singer. So there was this kind of thing about trying to figure out how can we represent the different queens. And so there was something about the patterns that they carried in their family crests. And so I was working a lot with that with the set and the idea is that they would go from the set onto the costumes themselves. And so there was the singer would wear kind of a white dress and this was sort of like in the middle of all the hype about kind of the early like the first version of the Kinect. I programmed sort of a live mask that would let me capture the outline of the performer. And then I would project sort of the patterns that were from out there. In this particular case, this queen had been decapitated. So there was something about like the blood flowing off of from the neck area. It was a tough project. It required a lot of effort and I learned a few big important things. Number one, and it was a lot of a big lesson to learn is that directors do change their minds and visions do shift. And so one of the major things that I had spent a lot of time working on was trying to get this live mask thing with a Kinect working specific projectors and with the idea that we would be sort of working all within one system, all unified. We would be doing lights and lights projections and some portion of the costume. But there was a lot of problems and glitches with the Kinect and the night before the one performance we were doing, Tom decided that we should probably cut that effect and we kind of got into an argument about it. I really felt strongly that we had spent all this effort and that was kind of the point of this experiment was to try, but he felt really differently. He was trying to kind of continue investing in this research. So he was looking for success. And so he wanted to cut the effect. I had to accept that and it was hard. It was one of those big design lessons where you have to say, well, I can't have everything. I have to be able to let go of my precious ideas regardless of how much work they are because we're kind of serving a bigger picture. So director changed their minds. I will eventually forgive Tom, but I think it was successful in many other ways. And yeah, there was entirely scenes lit with projectors. There was a huge aspect of it that I spent time learning about to sort of trigger multiple things out of one computer. But also it was like too much. I had not slept in a month and I learned that you just can't do everything by yourself. You need to learn to collaborate. You need to learn to delegate. It is difficult, but it is completely unsustainable to try to do everything yourself. I tried. Next, I'll show you quickly the theme of my existence, which was actually one of the first shows I sort of did as I was leaving university. Thane Malabar wanted to create a piece about his life and he wanted to be able to tour it in his two-door car and he wanted to figure out a way to have it be deployable in a few hours and for someone that wasn't even, that he didn't even know the show, be able to run it. And so this experiment was about sort of creating a touring piece that would fit in his two-door car. And I created this set that was made of kind of PVC pipe that just fit together with loose fittings. And it was three projectors, one rear and two side projectors, as well as a couple lights for support. Excuse me. So you can see the kind of small diagram here first and I'll show you a couple more photographs. In this project, I kind of learned that, okay, I need to be able to delegate. I need to be able to kind of hand off some of these tasks and I kind of collaborated with a few other people in terms of the programming, in terms of like kind of the content generation, but we did run into some significant difficulties. And those are some big lessons to learn as well that there's something about being able to yet to separate and network your systems, but it takes a lot of time to do that, right? So you have departments working independently and then you want to merge that and be controlled through a primary central brain. That takes a lot of time up front and you have to know when it's worth it. You have to know when you really need it. I don't think necessarily your average show in Vancouver that is not running for longer than a few weeks at most really wants to spend a lot of their valuable tech time trying to figure out complex show control. In his case, it really made sense because he was looking for a piece that could tour that could be essentially travel in his car and be set up in an hour and that just one person would be hitting the go button to trigger any of the sound accompaniment. So that was running all through QLab. QLab was triggering Isadora, which was running the video patch. And QLab at that time didn't have the lighting components. So we were actually triggering from QLab to Isadora to run the few DMX channels that we had for a couple of funnels. The other thing I learned is that you know, you can proof of concept this thing. Okay, I had these things triggering each other that was looking really good. Proof of concept does not carry the show. You have to stress test. And with this we learned in a tough situation we had our first audience. They had generously been donating as part of the performance sort of a pay-what-you-can situation. And we were making changes right up until the last minute. And you know, when you get to that place and you've made a bunch of changes and the audience comes in and you don't have a chance to run them or you've never run the show all the way through at least once, you're gonna run into unstoppable issues. Sometimes and you're gonna have to do a show stop. And I think this was the first time that I was like, well, I'm just gonna watch the show from the audience. I'm gonna let my peers run the show from the booth. I'm just gonna see and take notes. I'll sit with the audience. I wanna see how they're feeling. I want to kind of empathize with their experience. And of course the system because we had moved some cues around the cue counting had gone off. And so everything just kind of like groin it to a halt. The lights went out, we went dark. And he continued playing because he didn't really know what was going on. And the audience was, it was kind of awkward. Some audience members turn on their like cell phone flashlights. It went on for a good five minutes before someone in stage management called for a show stop and just kind of tried to reset. For me that was like the worst thing that could have probably ever happened but I'm glad it happened then I guess. And yes, don't make changes that don't get rehearsed or you're gambling with potential show stops. But also the other thing I learned is that even in front of an audience, like a system crash is really not the end of the world. It sort of actually makes the audience sort of empathize with you. And then I've gone on to work with large companies that also just crash their shows because they're like trying to do something so complicated that like, it's always just on the edge of functional. So that was an interesting lesson and one that I always tried to share with my students and my peers is that sometimes it's okay for the thing to not work. I mean, how else are you gonna figure it out? So that was interesting. And a lot of lessons in that one tiny kind of one-man show. I think the next one, and I'm trying to skip over some but one of the other big ones that I spent a lot of time doing was this show called Sometimes Between Now and When the Sun Goes Supernova. This one was performed at Theater Junction in Calgary. I had just moved there to become sort of the head of lighting department there after having gone on a small series of dance tours with Kid Pivot and Crystal Pied. I kind of stumbled into this theater and they had invited me to kind of become part of their staff but also part of their kind of creative team. And it was very complicated. It had a lot of inputs and outputs. The projection surface was this massive sort of like 70 foot curved psych that required some complex geometry and edge blending. At the time, we didn't really quite have mad mapper at a place where I felt it's satisfied. My needs, Isadora quite wasn't there yet. And so I was testing a lot of ideas, a lot of processes to try to get the look that we were getting to. And so what I ended up using was sort of like going from Isadora into the software called Mapio which is a pretty fantastic little application. I believe it's still sort of running. It's sort of standalone or it can become its own media server at this point. But at the time, it could do some really beautiful edge blending and warping. This show, yeah, it was an exercise in like durational creation. We did several residencies for this project. It was bilingual. It was in both in French and in English. We had subtitles kind of possibly being able to run both ways. But I think one of the major things that I learned and I've learned this kind of throughout several shows, there's a couple of things. Number one, I find that dynamic subtitles that sort of account for composition and space can really add to your visual aesthetic. So if there's a way for you to place the subtitles sort of in relationship or in composition with everything, it's a little bit less distracting than having them be sub or above. This was the first process where I really felt like I had a voice in kind of throwing out ideas for the creation of the company. They kind of operated it as a company of artists. So there was a little bit of input and ideas and things that I could try and a lot of room to go. But I also learned that you have to sort of articulate how long you think things are gonna take. I didn't really know how to, you know, edge blend on a curve, you know, these three projectors. It was actually quite complicated and I didn't really know how to communicate. Well, it's gonna probably take a week, but I just kept saying, oh, it'll just be a moment. And I think that kind of created a lot of tension. So sometimes just taking stock of how long you think things will take, I think it's a significant and important thing to take care of with your collaborators and respecting their time. And maybe, and that there is positive ways for them to use that time. If they're just waiting for you because they think it's two minutes, then they won't be accomplishing anything else. But if you say, look, it's gonna take me an entire day or a couple of days, they can kind of go ahead and do something else. One of the other major things with this project and it was also happening with a few other projects at the time is that you need to try to leave things in a state where you're not the only person that knows how to realistically set it up. This was so complicated that I doubt that without at least myself and Phil Cimolai at the time who was the sound designer and engineer without us, I don't think anyone could probably set up that system again. It was very convoluted, it was very complicated. It did a lot, it was very powerful, but we didn't have a way to kind of document it so that it could be handed off to anyone in the future. So I guess one of the ideas here is to just leave breadcrumbs for yourself. And another one, and I kind of passed this on from a different project to this list, but it's also relevant in here because, and I think this is the first time that I had worked with a high level filmmaker is that Content is King. And it's something a professor at Yale would also say is David Biedney, Content is King. Like all of these gadgets, all of these projectors, all of this stuff is sweet and fun to play with, but it can take it so much further if you have some quality content. And in this case, we had some incredible footage that had been shot in different cities and the forest. Someone that actually had a background in commercial cinematography was really open up my mind working beyond just whatever I can just produce in Photoshop or in After Effects quickly so that there's something about working with a specialist that can really improve your content. And the other thing here is the technical residencies are super, super, super invaluable. Like they're really important to be able to make kind of complex work. And I have worked on all sorts of residencies and I've seen people come in all levels of preparation, but it's very special time. And so all I urge everyone is to kind of come really prepared and with a lot of things to jam with, right? Like not necessarily finished things, but come prepared with different pieces and bits that you can kind of play with. Next, I want to just look at the last voyage of Donald Crowhurst, which was a production done by Ghost River Theater and Alberta Theater Projects. It was an incredible experience. I don't, I really think it was one of the best shows still in my books that I've ever worked on. It was massive in so many ways. But I think the most exciting thing about it was that we tacked this show in Calgary over the course of sort of six months and we had sort of like three almost month-long residencies, I believe. And yeah, there was a lot of time where we could sort of experiment together and essentially try things out, but not just on paper. We could actually, we actually had, we were actually working in a black box with a mock-up of the set, with a mock-up of all the projectors in place and kind of giving that ability to the entire team to play with some of these tools. So I'm just gonna play this little clip here, which is sort of a trailer. So you kind of get an idea and I can talk a little bit more after. Oops, all right, I hear that it's maybe very quiet. Let me try that one more time. Hi, Erin, can you tell me if you're hearing it now? Not yet, we can see it very clearly though. Yeah, let me just see if I can quickly make this work. Let's try that. How about now? Nope, we're not hearing it yet. Okay. But speaking of sound, this was Matt Waddell, I believe, who worked with you on this project. Is that right, Vlad? Totally, and Laura and Sola as well. This was just massive, massive production. Had so many different interesting aspects. And yeah, I'll get into it in a second. Let me just see if I can somehow get sound in there. Yeah, just while you're troubleshooting about that, I can share a little bit with our attendees. Matt Waddell did our very first presentation in the whole symposium. So if you wanna check out a presentation from him about how to create custom tools for projective media and sound specifically in the theater, that was a really interesting presentation that he gave at the very beginning of the symposium. And it's available on our site now in the archive. And Matt Waddell is also the person who taught me how to use Q-Lab when I was first working, also with Ghost River, right out of school back in 2012. So there's a bit of a personal connection for me there too. And so it's really exciting for us to hear a little bit and see some examples here from Donald Crowhurst. It was a really incredible project that they did. And I'm so grateful that Vlad's sharing it with us. Yeah, I don't know if I can get this sound. Can you hear it? I think even just to watch the video is very valuable Vlad, yeah. And we'll find the link. I know this video is also available on the Ghost River website. So I'll find the link and we can post it for people to watch afterwards. But if you wanna show the video now and maybe talk over it and tell us a little bit about what you're sharing with us, that would be great too. Yeah, one second. I've done something funny with this, unfortunately. Okay, sorry, it was now monitoring into my audio. But here, yeah, I'll continue now that I can kind of talk over it. What you'll see is that we kind of were working with the idea of what I started to call essentially video foley. And so what you'll see is moments like this, for example, where Donald Crowhurst is about to go onto his solo-sync-circle navigation voyage around the world in a boat. And it's the last night that he has with his wife and he's going to leave for months on this voyage that is quite dangerous. So there's kind of this void between them, but we kind of did a live composition with two cameras that joined their feeds up above. And you know, we had a bit of a soft edge. And so suddenly you could actually get both performers in the composition, but also below it, you would see kind of their separate situations and their feelings. And we had a couple different things like someone would come up with a sleeve, like similar to his pajamas, and as he reached out would sort of touch her on the shoulder. So yeah, we had quite a few elements. The back wall was a curved cycle that would fly in and out. It was four projectors edge blended onto it to get the brightness to punch through the lighting as much as we could. And as well, there was sort of a television, four cameras. It was the first time, yeah, that with Matt Waddell, we were working with really like, you know, HD 60 frames per second live feed content that was, you know, at the time, as good as it was gonna get in terms of lip sync quality so that we can actually see faces. I think they had done some workshops before me where they couldn't really show faces because, you know, the out of sync nature of the video would be too distracting. So that was definitely an incredible opportunity. And I think it really opened my mind up to this idea that we need to be making our own tools. I had been sort of frustrated with the tools that I had at my disposal to be able to do live feed. A lot of had to do with sort of like analog video cameras that if you would put them in comparison to some rendered content would feel really low quality and it was always out of sync. And so the discovery in here is that we had sort of as a demo because I think they had tried in workshops before I had got on the project that they had tried Watchout and they had tried Isadora, they had tried, I don't know if QLab yet had video for that capacity but they had tried a few things. And what we did in this project is we kind of got our, we had never really messed with it too much. We got really involved with TouchDesigner and we had the time to sort of explore and develop how we were working. And we developed a bunch of different queuing systems. We started out with spreadsheets and then it moved on to and spreadsheets that were sort of dynamic. And then we kind of moved away from spreadsheets entirely that were being referred to in terms of like calling and loading and offloading media. It was a lengthy trial and error process but it really gave me the time and space to kind of imagine what is it that we can do with these ideas and the fact that we could actually have them in the rehearsal room made a significant difference to the process and to the content at the end. So yeah, so here's some photographs and you can imagine here for example in this composition we had sort of like a, this is the top of show and there's sort of like a Brady Bunch movement of the images, right? And so there's Donald Crohurst who's in the center. We have his wife on the left and sort of his manager or sort of producer in the back, right? And we have three, we had these characters that we were calling the documentarians and they were sort of representative of the media at the time, this being a true story was all about how things were being represented to the audience that was following the story of this race. So we have this kind of interesting set of compositions that where you see kind of a cinematic experience and the thing below, you know some people might call this expanded cinema or stage cinema, I think that is, or staging live cinema, I've heard a bunch of different terms but anyway, it was very fun and the fact that we could do it at a high resolution and with low latency made it kind of possible to really play with some ideas. But again, not having had like the cameras and all of this gear essentially throughout the rehearsal process we wouldn't have gotten to these compositions because they really depended on the technology to happen. We were also playing with for example live green screen keying out and there was a whole sequence where this announcer is essentially showing the path of the race and how much there was a lot of important details that had to be kind of illustrated and so we were using different devices like this to kind of get to that point and all of these setups would happen very quickly. There was like a lot of moving scenery, a lot of everything was on wheels, these flats can kind of roll away, the screen could fly out. We had just such a variety of methods to explore things and we had these sort of like prop tables that would sort of be live film that would kind of get give us some of his actions really up close and sort of like what I had mentioned with this one earlier during the video, that kind of live composition that the camera is showing you something but on stage you're seeing something else and all together it's sort of a third image. So there's this kind of meaning making that the audience is making, the audience has to be then smart enough to sort of decide what they're looking at and what to focus on and everyone's gonna have a slightly different experience too, right, depending on what you're looking at and what portion of the production. So just yeah, so quickly some things that I learned out of that is that what we had a lot of time and we were trying sometimes to like imagine an idea and then just like try it out and we would spend a lot of time developing that. And then we started to kind of really explore recording just jam sessions and just like trying out and this is sort of like how one of the big sequences was built is that we would kind of create this thing where you could kind of explore a series of jams and then sort of document that and film it and then sort of cherry pick it and see what would stick. I think bringing tech into rehearsal is really important and to allow yourself to play in the process like I was, because I actually for the first time had a team in this project I had Laura as an associate in projections and Matthew was the sound designer but was also programming with me that we could sort of step away from the computer and that's also massive like being able to kind of interface with your team working with a team and in projection we struggle a lot with kind of working by ourselves and having to field every department all by ourselves we need to start arguing that just like other departments we need our own people to I think that's important. And another thing we learned I think on this project and I think Matthew mentioned that in his talk as well is that Mac hardware is like really expensive for certain tasks to not be a loyalist if a PC is gonna work better and you're gonna get a lot more mileage that way don't be afraid to build a computer do the research, try it out. I personally go both between Mac, PC and I'm actually doing a lot of exploration right now in Linux as well. All right. So, but yeah, what do you think Erin in terms of some of these ideas and concepts and trying to bring tech into rehearsal and how that changes your process? Yeah, I think it's wonderful for us to talk about because it's really interesting in this festival or this symposium I should say it's really the dramaturgy of design it's not just about tech, right? And you've really highlighted that in the projects that you've shown that each of these projects that you chose to demonstrate give examples of projects where the projection modality the way in which storytelling is happening is central to the way the story is communicated. There is no sort of, I think this is something I really admire about your work is there's no sort of decorative backdrop. This is all integral to the function of the storytelling and that if you remove projection from these stories the stories themselves do not make sense in the same way. And so I think something like that idea of live video folly that you talk about that integration of being able to see the way the shot is taken and then also being able to see the composite image at the end that this kind of thing is it creates a real sensation of liveness a real sensation of truth for the audience is another word some of us use at times. And that really creates something very special and tangible in the space that you can't sort of get otherwise. And I think even going back to the very first project that you listed as one of your big inspirations for your studying studies in motion this is a project which also completely changed my life. I saw it when they toured it to Calgary over my winter break from university. And it was the first project I think I had seen in Canada that really made me feel like they're actually telling a story with this tool. It's not just something where they hired their graphic designer to make some fancy motion graphics along the backdrop. It's not distracting me from an opera. It's not pulling my focus from something that's happening on stage. It is the point. It's the mode in which I'm being communicated with. And you really have highlighted that in every single one of these projects that as the tech has advanced you have not been working in service to the technology that you have been customizing, building and recruiting team members who can help you make magic. And I think that that is something that is sort of irreplaceable that attitude of artistic discovery and pushing the boundaries. And we've seen this even in COVID just with what you've been sharing on social media and the work that you've been doing as an artist since the theater is shuttered and some of the different things that you've been inspired by. And so I think that spirit is really what we're trying to bring out in each of these talks. And I think you've highlighted it really effectively. And it's wonderful to see a bit of that history because I was just sort of messaging offline with our tech support Emily that looking back you were talking about your project that you did at the grand about how, oh, no one could ever put this system together except for us now. And of course there's ways of documenting anything but in that sort of 2012 to 2015 era when we were all creating work the composite tools that we have now you know, things like QL, QL didn't have any mapping at that time. You know, like these tools where, you know we have tools now where you could just do an entire show in one software. You don't have to, but it's possible. At that time, even someone like me who is not a technologist was you know, writing my own code desperately searching through the bowels of the artistic internet for like other people who had created solutions. That idea of sort of making it up yourself wasn't an option, it was the only way forward. Exactly, exactly. And it's so different than now. It's almost, it's easy to sort of have you know, memory loss about it when we look back at these projects. Yeah, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna show one more thing and I'm curious to see what you think. Cause I don't know, I think we had met a little bit sort of in between while I was doing all of these things with the companies in New York. So I'm just gonna do kind of one last quick project because I think it's significant or just kind of this period of time that I spent in New York. This was working with the Wooster Group. I was kind of halfway through my degree and a job posting came up. They were looking for someone to kind of take over the kind of the projection department from someone that was had kind of done their five years and we're looking to kind of move on. And so I kind of was kind of overlap with the person with Bob Woos who's a good friend of mine. And we, yeah, he was kind of showing me how they work. And it's a company that's been around for a long time. And they've kind of like just gathered so much equipment from so many different eras and there's just so many layers. And it's complex. And like you say, that there's something about the integral nature of the video in this company that really opened my mind to like another step further into this idea of tool making, of developing the process like myself and trying to figure out something that works to just increase the ability to experiment. And I think it was sort of similar to what I was doing with the Ghost River but this was kind of even more intense. So these are just some photos from when I started there in New York. I'm gonna skip this one actually just for the sake of time but I want to show you a little clip just from a, it's a time lapse I took because it sort of shows you that there isn't necessarily like a very specific process for creation with them. They just sort of take up, you know between six months and two years to develop a piece and then the rest of the time they're touring, right? So the Wooster Group is a company of artists. They may work for theater, dance and media. They're based sort of in SoHo in the performing garage which we saw in the first photographs. And I'm going to just show you a little clip of kind of how the kind of aesthetic design of the space just kind of gets built over time. There isn't like a moment where we like read the play and make a drawing and do some research and output a set design. Actually, this just happens very organically over a long period of time. So I'm just gonna play this a bit of this clip for you. Unfortunately, you probably can't hear it but anyway, it doesn't matter. So you kind of get the idea visually and so I'll just talk over it. Just kill the sound. So what you're seeing here is the performance garage which is this all tiny little theater. It's wonderfully rich with history of many, many works that this group has put on together with many of the company members kind of being there for quite a long time. As you can see in this series of images you'll see that there's like a lot of little monitors that are playing things. And actually there's a whole set of videos that the audience can't see that is playing that is kind of part is part of the acting method. And it's sort of about kind of letting go of ego always being connected to the source material. And essentially I would call it, this is my interpretation of what it is. That is sort of like a visual score that carries the piece and that what they're watching of those monitors for the performers might be movies of dance. It might be an old video of documentation from the company from a different show. It might be video of the rehearsal that we were just in yesterday. We call it an accident tape. That there's this kind of exploration of the source material beyond just text. So there's a lot of, they gather a lot of different materials. Sometimes it's text, sometimes it's movies. They draw a lot on from movies. One of the shows that I toured extensively was the Town Hall Affair, which is based on a film by Chris Hedges and Dave Pennebaker. So there's kind of a broader view of what your source material can be. And it really inspired me to kind of potentially connect with something. I was looking for what to do for my thesis project. I didn't want to do a paper project that was interested in devising something. And so this watching the way that they worked really kind of inspired me to kind of move into kind of diving into alternative source materials and how you kind of play with video as a way to kind of manipulate the scene in terms of things that the audience can see and not see. Yeah, so I'm gonna move up a head. I'll just show you. So this, you know, when I got there, they toured a lot and so it's a lot of stuff. They're big systems. There's a lot of monitors, you know, a lot of this had to do with like, how do I get some of these systems like what you see on the right here? That was the system that was running a Town Hall Affair and it would tour all over the world. And it was very complicated. It was kind of part analog, part digital distribution because you have to get things to like almost 16 different channels of video so that the performers can have multiple, multiple different channels of video that they're seeing and they also have that routed to their ear. And, you know, there's a lot of variables at play and it's hard to track. And because it works kind of through accumulation, sometimes it's hard to kind of update things. And here, one of the things that was happening is that some of the equipment was starting to kick the bucket like it couldn't no longer hold, but the show was still touring. And so how do you take something that's already there and kind of update it? So that's sort of one of the major things that I participated in was sort of the kind of rebuilding, reorganizing of these systems. And it made me just think about the way that we queue systems and the way that we build systems. You know, this is sort of what the diagram originally looked like when I arrived and trying to then use this to kind of figure out how do we modernize this, right? Like it still needs to tour. We want to kind of maintain the integrity of their artistic vision originally. And it was a lot of work to try to kind of expand into what the contemporary technology can accomplish. And so part of that was like imagining and dreaming how these systems work and how that data needs to move. And so it involves a little bit of visioning as to how the patches are functioning together and how they kind of move through a system. I'm gonna move through this a little bit quickly, but if anyone wants to ask questions later via email, you'll be able to get my contact through the symposium. But, you know, this is, for example, what the kind of current system is looking like, you know, it's working digitally, it's working through, you know, HDSDI. In this particular drawing, the data is going from the bottom parts, which are like the computers, the sources, routing through a switcher, a digital switcher and sending to the monitors via 3G HDSDI, which lets you kind of go further, right? We don't have the limitations of HDMI. You know, so you can see the level of complexity that is involved in these video systems and the majority of the things that are running the show and the show can't even rehearse without this functioning is complicated and, yeah, there's an essential quality to it without the systems don't work. So there's some photos of rebuilding the machines and trying to rack mount them and make them tourable. That was another big thing that kind of got me going and sort of building systems that were kind of in one piece so that when you arrive at a venue, you just open it up and plug it all in. So again, I talked a little bit in the introduction and essentially in the title of this talk that I'm looking to talk about breath. Breath, I think generally being the find us, you know, something that's taken into our expel from the lungs and inhalation or exhalation of air from the lungs, you know, a brief moment, the time required for one act of respiration, you know, the power of breathing life and how do we kind of achieve that in the systems that we're working with and the tools that we're using to create content? So for me, it's breath, I'm referring to it in the sense of like how a live performance changes moment to moment. It's different every night. It might evolve over the course of the run of the show. It might change, it might shift. And how do we refine our tools to do that and to kind of engage with content generation and manipulation so they can grow and evolve with the process of making but also like how does that work with the process of performing? Like can that in itself, can the creation of content be essentially the performance itself? And how do we think about the system so they have and they maintain expandability, elasticity, flexibility and of course repeatability, like can you kind of perform this without it like having to show stop and not go anywhere? So I really struggled for a long time trying to find source material. I wanted to do, I wanted to play with time. I wanted to play with sampling. I wanted to play with looping. I was looking for a story about time travel and I looked at a lot of movies and a lot of books and I read a lot of different ideas. But sort of where I settled was actually this short film or fictional kind of featurette directed by Chris Marker who's a French filmmaker and artist from, who lives sort of between 1921 and 2012. But one of the things that he's most famous for is La Jeté and then this film called A Green Without A Cat and a documentary called Sans Soleil that he sort of shot almost simultaneously as La Jeté which was actually released in 62. Sort of part of this French new wave of cinema that occurred in the 50s and 60s. Some of his collaborators called him the kind of prototype of the 21st century man. The story sort of tells if a post nuclear war experiment in time travel and it's essentially told through a series of photographs of stills and essentially a photo montage that kind of lasts different lengths and there's a little bit of narration and sound effects but it's kind of a minimalist in a sense and an aesthetic is in black and white and it's in its past very carefully. So in the film kind of a survivor of the futuristic Third World War is obsessed with the kind of distant and disconnected memories of that sort of thing that maybe he remembers that happened at Orlé Airport, at the Pier or La Jeté and which are kind of these images of a mysterious woman and a man's death in short what happens is the sort of scientists that are trying to find a solution for the fact that there's no future essentially choose him to travel through time to seek for help. They seek for help in the future and it's of no use and then they send him to the past to try to see what he can discover. Or actually, yeah, we go to the past first to see if we can actually do this and then move to try to get help from the future. Everything is, again, it's told through these kind of still images except for one very particular shot of a woman that's sleeping suddenly waking up and it's kind of this climax and it's kind of moving after experiencing these kind of 20 minutes of very kind of a paced imagery. So I just want to show you just a little bit of what that looks like. Of course, I don't know if the sound is working, unfortunately, but I'll just show you a little bit of the montage. And so there's still photographs. There is sometimes movement. There is sometimes shifts in what's happening but let me just, there's brief introduction but it's really, it's just essentially a voiceover with kind of told through images but of course the images are being filmed so there are kind of moving in this kind of very slight textural way. So there's sort of the montage of the end of the world. The fact that in this story, and you can find it pretty easily online, it's kind of everywhere and it has inspired other works. The film 12 Monkeys is sort of based on this story as well. There's kind of multiple timelines at play and that kind of really excited me and this kind of very kind of defined aesthetic of the photo montage kind of called me a little bit and I was curious, okay, how can I start to play with this idea and maybe potentially deconstruct this into a performance? So I'm just gonna move ahead into a little bit of sort of the staging of it and kind of how I was arriving at kind of the setup that I will show you in some photographs and in a bit of video. But we were working this kind of small experimental theater, the idea that I would kind of gather a team of collaborators. I was leading this project as sort of like the instigator of the idea but I brought on a lot of people that helped me. There's Jekamai Vanessa, who was kind of a directing collaborator and Caitlin Vols was a producer. I had Jonathan Thompson helping me code all of this together. He was working at Yale on a different project with me trying to get the Yell Repertory Theater to use Touch Designer for the first time. And so we had just built a giant media server for this kind of much larger project and he stayed on to really make humongous difference in being able to code the level of complexity that this piece had, as well as Frederick Kennedy who did the sound design, Daphne who I was seeing who did the lighting design and Michael Commendatore who was kind of a video projection collaborator and performer, Col McCarty did the costumes and then I had a team of technical directors including Latiana Gursong and RLT and Ben Jones and yeah, I had a significant group of people kind of jumping onto this project which is one of the amazing things about Yale is that you're surrounded by people that are just craving to make stuff all the time and everyone's just so generative in this period that all these people jumped on. I did a translation of the text, originally it was in French. I thought for a while of trying to and I recorded a version with Ari Rodriguez in French but ultimately I moved it to English and one of actually one of my lovely instructors from Yale who taught visual imaging and technology David Biedney did the voiceover for the piece. So again, I had this army of people kind of helping me put this together and we really had a great time. It was, we sort of storyboarded out the moments, we had the voiceover but then it was about devising how to set up all of the different shots. As an experience essentially what happens and I'll just hit play and try to mute this here so that I can hear myself is that for the first sort of 15 minutes as the audience is coming in, what the setup was is that you would essentially watch us kind of teeter around with all of this equipment, right? There's all of the engineers, technicians and performers are all on stage. We're all sitting behind one screen and the idea was that we would start to sample content and kind of build up the images for this piece as the audience is coming in. And sort of to create sort of a library of images. Some of that it was even including the audience at the beginning, we would kind of dress them up and photograph them but the audience doesn't really know what's happening at the beginning. It's unclear what these people and customers are doing. Every time I would kind of hit something that was good I would call for Mark and everyone would know that that was the news that the image was recorded. And I also had a series of monitors on stage that would instruct or tell the team which take we were in and what camera it was using. This system was programmed entirely in TouchDesigner and we had essentially six cameras. So some of them were on sliders or as a tabletop camera. There was some that would just run around with a long cable. They were different setups and different takes but essentially as you're coming in you're just kind of watching the lights turning on and off. Fred would be playing kind of a live composition on his keyboard and with his laptop. And we just start to kind of begin to collect all of this imagery. Eventually after about 15 minutes and we had a lot of small parts and things in my kits as well. I'm gonna get to the part. So what happens next essentially is that once we run out of time, sort of about the 15 minute mark we would start to play back the images on the downstage screen. And so you sort of get to see the present past on the screen and through the screen you see essentially the future of the future actions that are being recorded. Just that they're sort of happening nonsensically. So they don't really make any sense which is sort of what happens in the film. And we're kind of recording all these sequences with these things. In essence, the system was like, if you can imagine sort of like a movie editor, like premiere, right? You're gonna have a timeline, you lay out, you have a media bin full of clips, you drag them into the timeline and you edit them together. For us, what we would do though was that at the end of every night, we would keep the edit of how we had refined it or maybe touched it up. But the thing that we didn't keep was any of the media. So at the end of every performance we would take the media bin and delete it. So every night, and it just became sort of like this live video game where you're trying to collect as many of the images as possible before the playback catches up with you. I'm just gonna try to find that before my time is up here. Yeah, so the images start playing back sort of telling you the, and some of that was photographs, some of that was composites of a camera pointing straight down at a table with a green screen image, sort of like this one image, right? That's Marky has been recorded sort of in the green screen but composited with a photograph at this time. Also we're kind of getting the monologue but while that's happening and the audience is watching that, we're rushing to continue to film ahead. Of course, eventually the video playback is gonna catch up with us, right? So there's like the playhead that's chasing us and we're recording ahead simultaneously. And so what happens eventually is that the playback catches up with us and the only thing that's left to do is to go entirely live. And so we shift from this kind of storytelling that's very slow and photographic and sort of like in the movie we take a pivot into motion and into a different mode, right? Still, but you can't hear the audio but I'll try to post a way for you to see it in its entirety with the sound if you're interested. I'm just going to skip ahead to where we go live and then we can wrap that up but maybe I'll just leave it running and Erin if I don't know and I know that I'm running out of time here but I don't know if there was any questions or anything that you had seen on the chats. It's so great to see this project Vlad. I think if anyone has a question they can throw it in the chat now we'll just have another couple of minutes to respond to any questions that come up. But also of course people can email and level up at designers.ca if you have questions and we'll pass them on to Vlad as well. We also posted Vlad your website there and we'll post your Instagram as well so if people want to get ahold of you through those streams if that's okay with you. Yeah, yeah. Great, that's perfect. I wanted to just say in response to this wonderful project you're sharing with us how exciting it is to see a project where the actual process of creation on a technical side is visible to the audience and I think that that influence from your Wooster Group the learning you did working in that capacity is really evident here and it's really thrilling to see that you went sort of talking about these early projects where it's you by yourself with no sleep for a week to a project like this where you're working with a whole team of creators with no sleep for a week. We can really see the vision. Yes, with no sleep for a week. But who can really see the vision and that you're all working together towards that same vision? I think that's a really exciting template and possibility for us. It's a framework that we're not seeing very much in contemporary creation yet in many of our companies and so this idea that we can have our visual work and have sort of a dramaturgical, almost like leadership that it's sort of taking the leader, it's taking the primary role in terms of communicating with the audience and not sort of discounting how powerful that is. And I think that you gave us a great timeline here for projects which really built towards the success of this thesis. I'm so grateful that you shared this with us. Thank you, Vlad. Thank you, Erin. It's also just really amazing to see this idea of taking some influence from something from the 1970s and then applying our contemporary media and our contemporary practices to it in such a successful way. I think it's really wonderful. I know that me and many of my projection design colleagues work a lot with this sort of micro-macro close-up and live-scale and manipulating scale and we can see that in your image here with the close-up of the McKinnell relate with the live human scale. And the real, the simplicity, like I think in theater, of course, we all say, kiss, keep it simple, stupid. Obviously this is incredibly complex system you've designed but that visually and dramaturgically the concepts are very simple for the audience to take in. And so you've taken something incredibly sophisticated and really distilled it and really got the essence out of it, which I think is something that's incredibly valuable. For me to see, I'm really excited to see this project but also for our audience watching. Unfortunately, that brings us to the end of our time. So I just wanted to say thank you so much for presenting such a rich presentation with so much good work. And it's really wonderful to hear from you. Thank you so much, Vlad. Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be able to share some of these lessons, yeah? Yeah, such a great pleasure. And you have very lucky students out there in Vancouver who get to benefit from your wisdom on a more regular basis and we're so grateful to have this experience in our archive. So thank you so much for being with us today, Vlad. Thank you. Thank you so much to you who've been watching this time. Thank you so much for sharing it with us today. And if you enjoyed this presentation, I hope that you'll donate the link is in the chat and I hope that you'll join us for the remaining sessions that we have before the end of our symposium on Monday. If you're interested in the Touch Designer software, the program that Vlad used in the Pure Project, you can find that we have a workshop on it this weekend led by Andrew Scriver, one of our co-curators. And also we've done some conversations with Matthew Reagan who is a pioneer in the touch design community and you can find those in our archive as well. So if there's any materials from this session which interested you, it will all be available in the archive and you'll be able to follow up with Vlad through the links which are posted right now in the chat. So thanks again for joining us and I hope that we see you in short order. We have one more session today with Heist and we're really excited to be hosting them. All right, talk again soon.