 Thank you very much. Appreciate you taking the time today's my birthday This is how national security won't spend their birthdays talking to the chief of Naval operations. I can't think of a better way Pleasure is all mine. I hope it's worth it. Well, it does give me extra leeway with difficult questions, right? Is that for you rain? Okay. All right, so let's start with Donald Trump You you know is reading through What is in effect your your plan, right? I mean for the Navy and maintaining cease-period maritime superiority for decades to come and you Like for instance, whenever I speak to intel officials you you name Russia and China at the top of your list of strategic challenges going forward just in terms of potential adversaries I wonder if we could start with Russia then as someone with a little bit of experience on submarines Russia's increased activity all around certainly in the air, but at sea and under the sea What is it up to what do you think its objective is as it pushes the limits? Yeah, well just to kind of Fought you know falling on your question a little bit The activity has been Brisk, you know from Russia at sea and in other places as you know and What we're seeing is activities levels at sea that we haven't seen since the mid 1990s that's both on the sea and under the sea and and over the sea and It seems that You know of course, I'm just giving you my best guess But certainly they have demonstrated a lot of sort of new technologies, you know for the first time and so With respect to their undersea capabilities You know, we've seen them launch cruise missiles from submarines and into Syria. We've seen them Not only stand up and test but deploy now start to deploy their new class of SSB ends the doggie rookie class They've got a guided missile submarine that's coming online And so, you know there as they reconstitute their undersea forces with a new generation of technology They're getting those out and they're using them. You've seen them shoot You know long-range land attack cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea and so, you know They're really getting a chance to try out all these new technologies to field test them if you will and then they've clearly they're back in the Middle East and a in a major way and So, you know just as a start it seems like if you were thinking about two goals Those are two pretty important goals that they're they're taking a swing at so Syria Testing new technologies, but particularly up in the North Sea Testing NATO's response, right? I mean is it your view that the objective here? Coupled with activity in Ukraine and elsewhere. Is it to undermine NATO? You know, I think that there's a dimension of that really it's it's too It's always a contest I guess right and so you know as this pitches back and forth What we've seen is that in a number of contexts, but for both Russia and China they seem to have found a way to Move this competition forward in a manner that is just below sort of the traditional levels of conflict and achieve progress there in ways that You know nontraditional below the thresholds of what you might want to call a you know a kinetic response And so I think that's an area where we've got to be very creative in terms of how we move forward You know it's discussed in our on our plan. So what's how do you articulate the strategy for responding to that? Just below the threshold because as you know, there's a perception I mean you here in Europe you hear in the Middle East you here in Asia That the US is getting beat You know that China and Russia are successfully testing the limits and pushing the limits and that the US either doesn't have the You know the backbone to respond or the strategy or you know is disengaged or it doesn't want to get involved in another conflict I mean you've heard that perception. So yeah, how do you can you articulate how the US responds to that? Strategy from both Russia and China. Well, I think that a big part of our response would be to realize that this is not just military and not just us and so it's It seems that in particular these types of challenges are open to sort of a whole government type of an approach and part of that will include you know strengthening those regional security architectures working with our partners with our allies to make sure that you know, we we build up their resistance to these types of behaviors so that you know that we're just not so susceptible to these types of activities I was speaking to a to a French diplomat This is just a couple of weeks ago and he was describing Putin as a gambler and you'll often hear folks say that well, he doesn't really have a strategy He's a tactical thinker. He's just kind of pushing here and there and pushing buttons but this diplomat is a bit of a historian on on Hitler and he made the comparison on me, but but he was saying that you know The Russians, you know make gambles and if one works and they'll do the next one and kind of you know Then you begin to think and he raised this you begin to think sort of Hungary Czechoslovakia And at some point, you know, it's above the threshold and I just wonder from your perspective when you look at that adversary Are you concerned that? Particularly if they don't have a plan that it could escalate beyond that threshold I think we have to be careful not to oversimplify, you know Any of our adversaries and and dismiss them I think that generally Their rational actors from their perspective and what they're doing, you know makes a lot of sense from their perspective And so seeking to understand what that perspective might be, you know, that that's where I think we need to To spend more effort and then you know, it is always a gamble, isn't it? I mean, none of the outcomes are our Foregone conclusions when you're moving forward even some of the things that we would argue are some of our greatest successes, you know and kind of Manifesting and bringing the Cold War through a close. I know those were far from certain outcomes when we were going through them And so there is this sort of element of uncertainty always And it kind of goes to you know, you said this is our plan for the next ten years It's really you know, we use this word design on purpose, right because As things accelerate, I think it's getting more and more Challenging to see further and further into the future, right? So I would say this is not a ten-year plan You know, this is version 1-0 of a plan. We're gonna do our best to characterize the environment We're gonna do our best to put a plan together Then we're gonna step forward and the first thing you got to do is measure to see are you having the effect that you Designed, you know that you intended But just because it's it's moving. It's very complex. It's moving very fast. And so you've got to be ready to adjust Either you're understanding the environment or your plan or even your goals as you step forward So there's a there's a lot of uncertainty and I think this kind of you know Measuring as you go and adapting as you go is fundamental to our use of the word design rather than plan What do you what do you place the chances of war with Russia in the next 10 years? No, I think small. Yeah Is it you know, we can't you we come from I want to be the world's expert at not going to war right with Russia and China Well, let's talk about China then and the South China Sea and responding to its moves there I was lucky enough to get the to fly over the man-made islands a year ago and see just One well here their response is the US flies over there They treat it like their own territory right in their own airspace But also see how quickly and we know how quickly they built these spaces up and since then we've seen deployments of you know this mobile Missile launchers and and you know, you've got a completed runway on some of them What is China's end game? Well, I think that's one of the issues is that it's really hard to discern what that end game is There's a lot of opaqueness with respect to their intentions and that's why you know, not only we but a number of the Countries in that region are growing increasingly anxious about what is the intention You know, we would continue to advocate and support What I would say is you know an order right in that region of the world and around the globe an order but an open architecture order right that Gives everybody who wants to participate sort of as level of playing field to succeed as possible and that's you know that system which has Essentially been in place for the last 70 years has given Many nations including a lot in that region, you know, just great prosperity over that period of time We would advocate that that's the way to go going forward into the future You know while it's hard to Predict exactly what the intentions are. That's the hardest thing right as with intentions You know it seems that There there may be sort of a tendency for an ordered but maybe not so open an architecture right and sort of a closed Order approach you kind of come through a we claim these areas you come through on our You know permission if you will and so we just want to continue to Do those sorts of activities that advocate for this open architecture level playing field approach That's the set of global rules and norms that have been in place and it's not just there You know, it's important to keep in context for instance our freedom of navigation program It's worldwide, you know, and but of course the South Genesee is getting a lot of attention Is it is part of that? Learning to live with China's new claims. I mean you can still sail the ships you could do the occasional freedom of navigation run But at the end of the day they have these unsinkable aircraft carriers right as people have called them and you know And the parasails and South China Sea and you know the fire fire Cross reef all those places they have them already and they don't they don't seem to be going anywhere Well, they're not gonna go Live with them, right? Yeah, you do and but you know how How that proceeds going forward, you know, what are the what is the rule set that governs behaviors in that part of the world? You know, that's where I think we have to I mean certainly, you know, China is a growing nation very complex nation and We want to get to an end state where It is open architecture, right? So everybody's got a chance to compete And do everything we can to avoid conflict as we you know exercise that competition part of your design speaks about the Freedom to some degree that commanders have When deployed right to make decisions and you have Multiple scenarios here where a commander can find himself in a in a situation if China for instance decides the Head off of freedom of navigation operation that kind of thing. What do you tell? What do you tell them to do? Yeah, well the idea is that we give them commanders intent But we also understand that nobody's gonna understand, you know Get the full essence of that situation better than that commander who's on that ship exercising that operation And so what this requires really is You know a lot of conversations to be honest between commanders and their subordinates to make sure they understand sort of What the full intent is how you would respond or how how one should react In the face of kind of any Unanticipated situation, right? We're never gonna be able to cover every contingency So it's very understood important that you understand the risk calculus that's in play and then you have to Delegate to that commander and expect them to do the right thing, right, you know enhancing that too. We've been working Very closely with the Chinese and other nations in that region to Establish a rule set right for encounters at sea encounters in the air and we've been seeing Increased, you know cooperation increased use of that rule set and so we'll continue to advocate again Going back to the sort of rules-based approach we've got these pre-planned responses for these unplanned encounters at sea and You know by and large there's more and more abiding by that rule set as we go forward So things like bridge to bridge communications bridge to bridge communications how well, you know We should maneuver, you know just how we should set up these encounters so that we don't have something unexpected happen As well, you know, I've got a good communication with my counterpart I think that those are very important so that in the event something happens that raises some questions We can get in touch with one another and I think that those are very important to prevent sort of unanticipated or unwanted escalations oftentimes when there's greater domestic instability that increases the risk of Digging in their heels, right to some degree as they as you watch China's own domestic issues, you know the economy, etc In that in your view does that increase the risk of a confrontation? Yeah, it's hard to determine. I mean certainly They've got a lot on their plate How all of this figures in I think is an important part of that But I would always advocate that it's our job to open up decision space for our leaders We do that by behaving predictably in a de-escalatory fashion and so You know was I as I talked to my counterparts around the world That's sort of what I'm advocating for we escalate it's it tends to collapse decisions based doesn't it and forces down into something That's not our job. Our job is to provide our leadership with more credible options not fewer. Okay Two other countries you mentioned not surprising Iran and North Korea So North Korea is a country, you know, it doesn't have the naval presence certainly has a growing missile capability You certainly don't have the kind of communication you have with it with the Chinese What what is your level of concern as North Korea becomes more emboldened and you begin to worry that? You know under this nuclear umbrella that then their conventional operations could become more aggressive. Yeah What's your level of concern with North Korea? I think everybody who's involved with that has a high level of concern just because of the unpredictability involved and Combine that with the capabilities that they've demonstrated makes for a very very volatile situation And the only thing that seems to be predictable is that you know, they will be sort of Very provocative, right and so This is again, you know the work of General Skaperati Amal Harris, you know, they've got to kind of Maintain that level of alertness certainly, you know The response times are very short in some of the scenarios there, but they've also got to maintain, you know a little bit of Time to reflect and you know calm things down. It's that's a tough problem in terms of just the time frames involved Okay, the North Koreans law. I mean they've Demonstrated a capability to launch missiles from a sub. I mean, we're how close are we to a nuclear capable North Korea in terms of Miniaturized, I mean I know that the Intel view is that we have to assume that they've already been able to miniaturize But but when does North Korea in your view become a fully nuclear capable threat? Well, you know, they're working on the submarine And you know we're watching that closely certainly they've got land-based, you know types of options as well And so, you know, it's hard to put a timeline on these things just because there's a tremendous amount of Opacity there, so so you have to sort of bias towards the conservative But it seems that the US is just waiting for that possibility right and again like another one that it's going to decide it has to live with Well We're certainly working a lot with our, you know partners and and others in the area to kind of bring to bear as much pressure On that situation as we can so okay Iran, I mean, what's the function of the various provocations we've seen recently? I mean the ballistic missiles is one thing but firing off the rockets by by by US warships Hey, you know some of this is predictable, but do you you know post nuclear deal? Do you find Iran in Bolden perhaps or less of a threat, you know, particularly just to US ships operating in the Gulf I think that with respect to what we do in the Gulf Really nothing has changed by virtue of this agreement except that we can be more confident that a nuclear type of a capability is you know off the table for now but They're their biggest ally is the geography there right then everything is in such close quarters And so I just came back from that theater and you know they remain as alert as ever You know our job in that part of the world has not really changed and So so we're watching it very closely You know there the Iranian activity of that type sort of ebbs and flows over time and we're not seeing anything Tremendously out of that normal kind of ebb and flow right now. I see Can you talk at all about the sailors and they're they're Getting too close and they're capture. I mean we've seen And we have some reporting on the results of you know the investigation the after investigation But but was this purely the sailors mistake? Yeah, I think that to get into those types of details would be premature right now Investigating officer is pretty much finished with his work and now it's in review and you know how those reviews go there's always a you know sure what about this what about this and so You know we're in that process right now It's a very complicated investigation as you can imagine hundreds of interviews and it's gonna take us a little bit of time To get through all that to make sure we've got you know a complete picture So when we start talking I want to be sure I understand Well, let me just ask you this then how nervous were you when you got the call that these sailors had been Nervous. Yeah, but you know on the good side It was resolved pretty quickly, right? So 16 hours we add them back And so you're very grateful for everybody's efforts Secretary Kerry and everybody who was involved in getting them back Have you met with them since then with the sailors? No, I haven't had a chance to meet them. Okay, all right I'm gonna ask you a political question And I know I can assume you won't answer But I just have to ask you as a military man who served for the number of years that you have And I know to some degree the way the military or military options are talked about in any Political campaign invariably there that you know it can get off the rails, but this time By any stretch of the imagination It's more so Things like telling soldiers to disobey the law this guy, you know talking about carpet bombing that kind of thing as a military man Do you do you look at that with any? I'll say alarm is too strong a word But but does it upset you to hear that kind of talk? Well, I think it's our job no matter who Becomes the commander-in-chief to make sure that we are, you know thoughtful certainly and that we provide Absolute, you know best advice that we can with respect to the employment of the military element of national power and so just by virtue of Whatever personal experience the different candidates may have they may have more or less familiarity with what that entails and So, you know, I think myself and a lot of others are giving a lot of thought in terms of how to Couch that advice. You know, what are they going to be those initial briefs to make sure that? You know, we're best postured to provide that advice and so, you know, that's That's one of the virtues of our system is that you get this sort of peaceful transfer of power you get a military that's controlled by, you know civilians and and That'll be the way it is going forward One final question for me because I want to allow You know first, I gotta stop so it's the future of war and we're getting into all this political question Just one and I know it's your birthday You put me after the cyber rifle guy, which I don't know how I'm supposed to compete with that I'm starting to feel a little bit nervous Defense, you know these guys love toys One big picture question before we go to the audience and that is you know a lot of the trends you talk about in here You know just the proliferation of technology how quick technology is changing a lot of this feeds You know the asymmetric nature of warfare and Folks that can you know countries and they they think about this strategize about neutralizing American military advantages, you know, particularly when we talk about naval advantage Sure, Russia, certainly China. That's part of their whole strategy Big picture is the US keeping up with that fast enough to maintain superiority yeah, I would say the big message out of you know this design is It not only talks about the competitors and we've spent a fair time today talking about the competitors in in the contest but they the character of the contest has changed and so you know the and the biggest change I think is pace right and the rate at which things are changing and While we still enjoy a Margin of superior superiority right now. I would argue that if we don't pick up the pace We will certainly not meet our potential And worse may fall behind our competitors And so, you know, we've got a lot of things that we're doing to try and Increase the pace at which we develop concepts increase the pace at which we Bring in new technologies and you know, there's a real Harmony that can be developed if you do it right between concept development and technology development One sort of feeds the other, you know when you get it going just right and so there is this idea of pacing the other idea is that you know Resources for the foreseeable future are going to be about flat if not declining that would you know We would be I think overly optimistic if we didn't at least plan for that That contingency So how do you you know get out? You've got a more complicated? Security environment in terms of the character of it. You've got more competitors Into the in the contest There is this also this element of not only going, you know speeding up the pace but also look into combine things in new and creative ways and you know, there's a good rich history in in military history of Not necessarily the new piece of technology, but combining that Creatively with another piece of existing technology and that type of those types of combinations can make all the difference And you know most of the time people talk about technology kind of approaching an exponential curve but these combinatorics can even beat that if it's done cleverly and so in terms of Achieving your potential improving your performance. It's a combination of Picking up the speed for certain for certain but also combining things and in more creative ways Gotcha. All right. I wanted to leave 15 minutes for questions and we got 15 minutes So just to open up to the audience and I think I imagine their microphones as well gentlemen on the right-hand side Steve Winters Independent consultant. Well, thank you so much for the talk. I this is a small question But I've heard so much about the third offset strategy. I've heard secretary Hegel talk about how he Initiated those ideas a few years ago, and then I put I guess deputy secretary work explain it But I just wonder in terms of calling it an offset strategy when I read the Russians are Putin describing his attempts to a jumpstart technology And he has a whole list of critical technologies for military that they're pushing development on it seems to me that both The Russians and ourselves are essentially doing the same thing. So to call it an offset strategy We're not offsetting the Russians. We're competing with the Russians and the same idea Could you elaborate on that? Well, I think what you're talking about is Sort of the fundamental nature of this contest, right? So this is a contest between two thinking adversaries that are both trying to outwit the other And so we should not be surprised that you know, they've got their plan They want to checkmate us even as we're trying to checkmate them. And so You know too often you mentioned There's there's these technologies out there that may be rendering our military irrelevant Well, certainly of course are gonna target our vulnerabilities. We would be shocked if they did anything differently, right? But it's not just a one-way game, right? So as they are Executing their strategy we are executing ours and so it's just back and forth and I think you know There's nothing new about that. That's fundamental to the nature of the contest Folks in the middle here Security project and wanted to ask the question as a submarine officer What is your thought about the future of aircraft carriers and Talking about how this is the second F has put out there saying that the Ford class may be the last Type of its class where we have manned aircraft and large aircraft carriers as the Ford is being designed What do you see is the vision for the next level of? Aircraft carriers and air warfare in the Navy. Yeah, well It's a giant question and I think the Secretary said that the Joint Strike Fighter might be the last manned aircraft of its type that we send that just to be you know a little bit precise there and I think that this is one area where we'll just have to see where the technology takes us, right? I'm not Right now. I'm not ready to bet a hundred percent that we're gonna get there by the next Generation, we've just started those studies to see what will be the next thing in terms of achieving air dominance Excuse me what I want to do though now and with respect to just the aviation piece is get going we sort of thought about this long enough and I want to get an unmanned aircraft on the deck of the carrier and It's got a legitimate mission, right? It's not just a prototype out there So for ISR and tanking Those are things that will make a legitimate contribution to the air wing And we will learn so much about what it takes to integrate unmanned into the air wing And so that's kind of one effort just the operational effort and then in parallel You know, we're watching the technology and more than watching participating and developing the technology in and so we will migrate that over as it matures To make sure that this aircraft continues to improve in capability as the technology You know matures and allows us to do that The learning cycle I want to be very very short, right? So we'll get out there now with something that we'll start learning as technology becomes available We'll we'll incorporate that and we'll learn again, you know, I don't want to try and predict 10 20 years from now what will be the right answer because it's just becoming amazingly hard to predict 20 years into the future right now and so You know the answer to that for me is having shorter learning cycles so that we can follow that Potential curve a lot more closely with respect to the aircraft carrier itself You know, there's a number of studies that we have going on right now to look at how that all you know should should be going forward and I'm eager to see what the results of those are we'll go where the data takes us and You know, we'll see what happens Emory thank you Admiral Richardson, thanks so much for being here And I just have to tell you you're you're all over Twitter. You may there's this conference And then there's those of us who are on Twitter, and it's a parallel That just really scares me So And I have to say it's something to hear the CNO sounding like a The owner of the entrepreneur with a lean startup because language is very much the lean startup But you just mentioned something about you know checkmate and and we think about checkmating them and they think about checkmating us And that's the traditional chess board strategy of great power war But we heard Suzanne Spaulding yesterday under secretary for DHS talk about a network strategy and building a network of networks And how you do that we're talking about cyber security so that you know anytime there's a any Attack anywhere on the network the entire network knows what that is And I just wondered if you're if you could talk to us a little bit about the way you're also thinking in network terms Which is really quite different than the sort of traditional chess board. Yeah, no, thank you And you know, there's there's also that crowd that says hey That's very Western to think of chess, but you know in the Eastern Contest We're thinking about go right and I also know that a computer just beat the go champion So, you know, it is a rules-based structure at the end of the day and we're getting better at figuring that rule set out I'll tell you we have a number of efforts going on right now that I'm looking at integrating One goes by the name of distributed lethality So we've got some things going on in that direction and that's sort of how to stitch in surface forces in more creative ways We have another it's sort of integrated fire control dash counter air nifka if you are an acronym person And so that's you know how to integrate In the naval aviation context I zoom out from that and I see you know a space where it isn't kind of a network of networks where the any one of our sensors Can share its data to the highest level of precision right targeting data if need be With any one of our platforms which carries, you know a host of I would say payloads right weapons and electromagnetic warfare and cyber effects and so if you think of that space, you know these axes of sensors and and Platforms and payloads You know wherever you can connect those You start to build a network of networks and that I think becomes not fragile, but actually resilient Right, so if a particular option goes down Well, you've got a number of other options they can they can come up and and you get this sort of graceful degradation and restoration going on And so that's where I'm trying to To move and you know, it's very complex when you get to that level And so, you know some of these technologies that are right around the corner artificial intelligence The types of computers that that beat Kasparov and chess and beat the go champion, you know, how can they help us think through these types of decision You know matrices that are that'll accompany that making sure that we've got people Inserted at the appropriate place to to control the risk there, so You may just follow there because you mentioned you want to get unmanned aircraft Deployed you mentioned like electromagnetic. I mean how soon before you have a deployed rail gun? Yeah, well this rail gun thing I need to Yeah, we're down to kind of engineering in the rail gun and so it's we're moved beyond the science part But I gotta tell you I'm you know, I'm impatient with respect to this directed energy You know vector that we need to go down The rail gun once we get through these engineering challenges will be kind of a magnificent weapon Similarly with lasers and similarly with these other directed energy types of of things And so we've got some movement in that in this budget, but I want to accelerate that as much as we can I think that's a big part of our future Gentlemen here in the front Sir auto cruiser with c-powered magazine, you know one of the big complaints we're getting from the co-coms is like of submarines, you know, and obviously, you know, you you're trying to build two Attacks up a year Would like to do more, but they're expensive You're also got a plan to go all you know unmanned under see vehicles how much of a role with those unmanned vehicles go to Closing the gap you have Yeah, well, I think that they're you know, they complement one another right and so if you can see a Sort of a manned platform and attack submarine for instance being you know the hub of Sort of a family of under underwater vehicles some autonomous some may be tethered some bigger that would have deployable payloads off of them Longer range You can see that a single manned submarine would extend its influence quite a bit by virtue of doing something like that And so there is this sort of complementary relationship that Happens and so, you know, we've got a big push forward and unmanned both in the air and under sea And on the surface for for that matter In terms of you know, how do we extend our reach and how do we reduce our risk? Particularly to our sailors by doing those sorts of things We're gonna have time for a couple more questions. So just for geographic variety of my co in the way back here Sure, sir Byron Cowan capital alpha partners. You talked about about picking up the pace I wonder if you can talk a bit more how you pick up that pace is that a resources you is their cultural issue Do you have the authorities from Congress to do that? Yes, yes, and maybe I Think that what will I'll just give you some examples of some of the ideas that we're pitching right now One is this rapid prototyping and experimentation division and so this would be a team of Technologists with a broad, you know Understanding the portfolio broad spectrum of knowledge and they would respond either to urgent needs from the combatant commander or even Maybe more useful looking for opportunities, you know, that maybe haven't been articulated yet in order to further our way forward And the idea is that we bring together these relatively mature technologies I don't want to be in the you know the science a mature technology phase and then again, you know combine them in ways That we can rapidly prototype and you know You run them through some in-house testing and then as soon as possible you get them out to the fleet, right? And that's when the magic happens, you know, there's nobody kind of more creative than the United States sailor And he'll think of a thousand ways that you can make it better if you only added this could you just cut down on this? you get them talking with the engineers and And I think there's real potential there to come to some really valuable solutions early on You know part of this though in terms of our culture will be that some of those ideas are just not going to work out, right? And we've got to understand that that's part of the business You know part of the model going forward and as long as we can attach a lot of learning and lessons to that failure Then you know, that's that's a success right a failure is not even the word for it I don't think and so and I'd much rather learn that lesson early When there's relatively little value in the in the program, right? I haven't integrated and built it and deployed it and etc. etc And I'll pick up confidence as I go to right because I'll have really rung out all of the issues with it So that when I do go to some kind of a formal production line program of record if you will I'll have a lot more confidence that that solutions gonna withstand, you know The environment it would just go so we have this rapid prototyping and experiment effort going on to get started, right? And then for those ideas and maybe other technologies that would be appropriate for fast-tracking Into production. We're standing up what we're cleverly calling the maritime accelerated capabilities office or Mako and These are you know It's a fast track if you will an HOV lane for everybody in this This audience that understands exactly what I mean so that you can kind of go faster and you've got the Resident authorities in place that can make quick decisions. They can maybe adjust the The acquisition requirements because of the confidence that they have in the program and get things moving faster So and then you know the secret plan is to over time migrate more and more Programs out into the fast lane right lean them down so that they're more appropriate for the fast lane and soon Nobody will be left in the slow lane, so But it's you know, it's you got to think that through right? You don't want that fast lane so close that it's not startingly different But you don't want it too far out that it just sort of dies on the end of the yard arm and doesn't flourish And so how far off the main track to you position that is work going forward Unfortunately, I think we're gonna have to leave it there I will ask you how Navy football is going to do next year before I let you go well, you know We had an awesome year you did this last year and Kenan Reynolds You know just a real superstar a lot of graduates, so but I've got a lot of faith in coach Ken I'm looking forward to a great season great