 Hello, I am Martha, a member of the Spark of Humanity Network. We are here today to talk about hope and how the concept that there's a spark of humanity in each one of us can bring us to a place of a hope that is engaged and vibrant. It isn't the sitting in the bleachers crossing our fingers, twiddling our thumbs. People thinking sort of hope is the sort of engaged gritty down on the playing field sort of hope. And with me today are Axie Noyes, also a member of the Spark of Humanity Network, and Amy Lindemann. Also a member of the network. There is a podcast that is available on the Spark of Humanity website, www.sparkofhumanity.net, that is an earlier conversation between Axie and me about this issue. So you may want to listen to that and it may also be available on the Orca media website. So Amy has agreed to come today and ask, having listened to the podcast, has agreed to come today and ask Axie and me some questions that sort of clarify the issue of how the dynamic, how understanding and claiming our spark of humanity can get us to a place where we feel hope for the world as it currently is. And we're filming this in the 23rd of October in 2020. So that gives you some context. Amy. All right. So these questions come as a combination of a number of different people that viewed the first podcast. So start from the top. So during these unknowing times with COVID and the election, guided meditation is a way to develop and increase the spark glow, as you have said. Are there other ways that people can develop mindfulness of spark or increase their spark other than guided meditation? Maybe there are other self-practices that you do. Thanks for asking. Did you get that question, Axie? Yes. Okay, good. Good. Do you want to respond to that first or do you want me to go first? You go. Well, yeah, I just think it's in using the techniques that we practice inside of the meditation. We actually practice envisioning ourselves, meeting others, first of all, where those conversations have been on the phone. So we only hear each other's voices. Then we picture our sparks, our individual sparks, and then we picture the sparks of those on the phone. And then we picture the sparks of people in the future who might be listening. And each time we picture them, we picture our own individual spark of humanity meeting the other sparks. So how to do it is to, when you're actually meeting people or on the phone with people or in any kind of interaction, it's not necessarily I would, for myself personally, it's not just people, although that's really where our problems are today. But with birds, stones, important objects that come into our life on a daily basis to practice acknowledging the life within that object or being. And it's like a rainbow. I have a pot of gold. You have a pot of gold. I have a pot of gold. You have a pot of gold. So anyway, that's, and it's very simple. Not it doesn't take a lot of time, but over time I think it has an effect. And I'm just praying it has a big effect. It's not something we can actually see, prove that this is working. That's hard to do. But what I do know is it helps me, I think it helps, has helped Martha. It strengthens something. And so that's. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Axie. The I personally don't envision my spark. The guided meditations are, links, access to them is on the Spark of Humanity website. And that's a guided meditation that has up to now been led by me helping people connect with their spark and connecting through their spark to other people's sparks. And that's the basic way that's out there. When I first began to do this work, which was 40 years ago or so, it was a matter of connecting between my spark and the spark of someone I was having a hard time with, or someone I was scared of, or someone who I might have a hard time with, and just from my spark connecting with their spark, hopefully before I'm in their physical presence, because I get rattled in the physical presence. But if I have a moment or a day or a week of preparation, and I'm going into a challenging situation, I can connect with my spark through my spark to connect with an affirm these other people's sparks. And that acts to strengthen my spark, although that wasn't the point. That's only become evident in the past three or four years. But it acts to strengthen my spark, and hopefully their strength and spark acts to erode their defenses and release their distortions and clarify their bafflement, as it says elsewhere in the videos that we've given on the website. And a little book that we use. And there's a little book that we didn't bring with us today. So there you have it. But the guided meditations are a recent acquisition and recent growth of this. Development that came from the Roots groups we had in 2017, which is what brought Axie into the work, I think. And that's what's obvious out there. But the personal work, it's useful in any situation of conflict, or potential conflict, or anxiety, or fear, or any of those things. Because when I through my spark connect with the spark of humanity and someone that I'm scared of, or don't like what they're doing, or wish they'd just go away. And I know I'm old enough to know they're not going to just go away. And the only, the constructive, not the only maybe, but what I've learned as the most constructive way of engaging is my spark to their spark, and understanding that it seems that when their spark is strengthened by my affirming it, that their defenses are slightly eroded, and their distortions are maybe a little released once the defenses are eroded. And then their bafflement may be clarified. They may have more of an understanding of what got them scared. So that makes them less scary if they understand why they're scared. Great. Good. How has the spark knowledge changed your life, personally? How has the spark knowledge changed your life, personally? For me, well, it's given me a base to go to in relationship with other people. It's not something, actually, to be honest, it's not something I am necessarily conscious of in the moment in a conversation, but I've noticed that the quality of communication is different before the conversation even starts. And this is not with some ideologue or some archetypical being like political TV person or something like that. This is with people that I speak to. Not that I don't apply the spark work to people like that, but more in my own locale and my zip code. It changes the nature of my base. I found that it changes the nature. And I'd have to say that there is a trust now, a trust, a kind of faith, something that has strengthened just the base that I'm, the gravity, the space that I inhabit when I am in contact with others. I try to come from, it's a different place I'm coming from. So yes, I think it has profoundly changed my life. And it's not in ways that I can necessarily articulate. I probably should have, you know, I haven't done my homework. But that doesn't mean that I'm not telling you the truth right in this moment. It's not something that I can, I'm not sure I'll ever be able to articulate how it's changed. But the, it's inside work that you do with others. You practice this work with others and it's inside work. So we each have our own, in the guided, even though it's guided, we have our own internal work that evolves out of that guidance. And so we're all kind of moving in the same direction, but each with our own connection to the world. And you know, I'm not sure how it changed, although I think it strengthened the faith and trust that I have in people. It's lessened any kind of fear, which is a good thing. Anyway, that's all I have. So the question is, how has the spark work or concept changed my life? Yes. Well, most obviously during this time of pandemic and the incredible horrors that I am aware of in the world around me, it's given me a sense of purpose. It's given me a sense of trajectory. It's also an instrument of my formation as a human being because I believe in this work and I know that my well-being, my wholeness are contingent upon my being faithful to this work and true to this work, so it's keeping me, it helps me stay on the path. Anyway, it's, because it's been forty years, and I would have grown and changed a lot in forty years anyway, let's hope. It has, speaking of hope, it's given me hope because through the spark work I found early on it was just about changing you, strengthening your sparks. I'm fine, thank you very much anyway, but doing this work and it was through Axie that I became aware that, oh, they're my own defenses and my own distortions that are getting in the way of my doing the work, so I become aware that, because the basic unit is I cannot claim my spark alone. In order to claim my spark, the action of claiming my spark, which is the foundation of the work, requires that I connect with and affirm the spark and someone else. So that's how I connect my spark, how I claim it is in connection with someone else. So when I do that and I am connecting my spark with their spark, my spark becomes strengthened. And as my spark becomes strengthened, like I want their defenses to erode, I want their distortions to be released, I want their bafflement to be clarified, I might be willing to have my bafflement clarified if I'm willing to admit that I have any bafflement, of course, which is always an issue, but I become willing to have my defenses eroded through the work because I believe in the value. And I become willing to have my distortions released. I can't put words on my distortions, except maybe they're in the process of being released, but I know that I have them, I have to admit I do, and to allow them to be released and that allows the process we talk about in the network that we're all creatures of an ever-evolving multi-dimensional dance. And we're not going to get into the dance too much, I think, but the fact is it's in motion and it's a multi-dimensional thing, and the dance knows where it wants us. We have each have our optimal place within the dance. I don't know what that is with my head, but my spark knows where it belongs. And the dance draws my spark into my right place in the dance, my right size, my right relationship within the dance, and it's at that place as I get closer and closer to my right place in the dance, which is, of course, ever-evolving and multi-dimensional. So I can't say, I've got it today, that's great, I'm set, because it's ever-evolving. I need to stay alive to the dance through keeping my spark as undefended and undistorted as possible. And so that gets me to the relationship in the dance where I find hope, because I'm in touch with something, I'm in touch with the living tissue of the dance, and I really get it viscerally, that I'm a member, a creature of a dance that's infinitely large, and it's in charge and it knows where it's going, and I don't, and my only joy and comfort are in cooperating with the dance and being a part of it and enjoying it. Thank you, Amy. So going off of that with the dance, what do you feel happens to our spark when we pass on this plane of living? When we die, do you actually have any sense about that? I don't think anything happens to the spark. I think the spark stays a spark. And maybe it joins other sparks who have been transformed in that, basically when we die, the body stops functioning, but the spark is not just the body, it's always something beyond that. So I would say, you know, the body, look, to answer the question that you just asked before about how did it affect our lives, basically you're asking us, the whole point of the work is transformation. That's the whole deal. So you're asking, two people who have been caterpillars and might, at this stage, we might be in cocoons now. I'm not quite sure where we are in our transformation stage, but you're asking us to describe something that is ongoing or asking a butterfly, you know, that's just hanging from the milk weed, you know, with wings that it doesn't quite know what the heck is going on, you know, what's going on. And it's very hard to describe human transformation. And I think it's profound as that is, and in articulate as I'm being right now, that's the same thing that's ongoing in death. That's what I would say. The spark is, it's another transformation, radical, radical. But I don't think the spark will prompt, my spark isn't going to blink too hard. My spark is much more in, it's not an intellectual exercise, but my spark knows what to do, knows the work. I'm the problem with my spark. I'm like a sea anchor. My spark is like, you know, a hunting dog. It knows what, it's on the scent. And I think that's, you know, as willing as I'm being to release these delusions and distortions and, you know, the ways that I might fool myself, my spark is fine. I would say more simply that I think my sense is that my spark just goes back to the fire that it's the spark of. There you go. Alright. What are the biggest distortions and erosions that you see and yourselves or other people? Distortions and erosions or all the defences, delusions, what are the biggest ones? Sure. I think there is a delusion and a distortion of, we are actually, we come by it honestly, our school systems don't help in this regard. I think that's hard. Our society doesn't help. We are taught to believe that we're separate. And, you know, that we, to be strong, you must be independent. And it's a weakness to ask for help. So, yeah, I think that those are the, at this time, those are the main problems that we have. The exercise of power is all, you know, power over, I mean, not power itself has, you know, that's the spark basically, but the power over others. You know, yeah, these are big ones, big ones. Okay. Let me, the way I have to think about this as I have to start with my understanding of the way this develops is that there's a baffle month. I don't know how to handle something. When you come out of the womb, how do I, how do I cope? What, what do I do? What do I need to do in order to be safe? So, that creates the distortions. Maybe if I smile all the time, maybe if I, you know, do whatever, we tend to pretzel ourselves in order to feel safe. And then that hurts. And we don't want to be aware of it. And so we create the defenses to, to keep people away from our distortions and to keep us from feeling our distortions because they're painful. And they come from a baffle month. So the, the primary distortions are, they're, they come from the, they come from the, the lack of, of appreciation that there is a spark of humanity in everyone. And that therefore feeling that power over has any meaning is anything other than just silly and or destructive. And the, the, I'm losing it here. Let's see if I can find it again. The distortion of, it's all fear-based. The distortions all come from fear. And so the, I don't tend not to look at problems. I tend to look at solutions. The solution is to appreciate the spark and the power of the connection of the spark and the sparks in communion and the sparks working together and the power that that happens. It doesn't mean looking at the nature of other people's distortions or the nature of defenses. They're there. And if I start talking about the distortions and the defenses that I see out there, the only way for me to see them is through my projecting from my own distortions and my own defenses. And that, that doesn't solve anything. It may, if I'm awake at the moment, help me become aware of my defenses and my distortions. But they're all basically fear-based. They're all because we, we want to be safe. We need to recognize our inherent safety that our sparks cannot be extinguished. They cannot be corrupted. They cannot be destroyed. They cannot be destroyed. They cannot be put out. They are safe. They're fine. It's all the crap that we, that accretes around our spark through our lack of understanding the power of our spark. And that's what causes the problems and then we project on other people and we feel separate on all this stuff. But we all have this, we all have a spark of humanity. All sparks are made of the same stuff. Sparks have a natural affinity for each other. So when we begin to realize that and practice that and work our way down through, this is what I've found for myself, it's a geological process. The layer upon layer upon layer of delusion, of distortion, of defense. Decades in my case of building up beliefs and habits of response that are based on the illusion of separation. The lack of trust and awareness of the infinite life of the spark. And I think, last question maybe before we pause, but is what can alter your spark in ways that can impact your life negatively? You got an answer for that one, Axie. What can alter my spark? In ways that can impact your life negatively. The lens through which my, the stuff that is me that surrounds my spark, the idea of who I am. For instance, if I am convinced in a certain situation that I'm a victim and that it's that person out there that has victimized me. And it may be that I've actually was a victim, but over time I might continue to decide that I'm still a victim because that's the very good defense. I can't, I'm protected then. I can't make a mistake if I'm a victim. And that's the kind of thing that you begin, or one can begin to become aware of doing this work, that you, oh my goodness, I'm choosing to be a victim. So it can be, it's challenging and a little scary sometimes because to step out of that, that is a defense, you know, to take down that wall or to let that wall erode by, but this is the trick. I can't really just do it on my own. I need to connect with another person in order to bring down that wall. And it may be just to talk about the trap of victimhood, but I can let it melt away by talking with another person, another, and recognizing their spark, letting them see my weakness, my whatever, things kind of melt. It's wonderful. So, okay, so nothing can impact my spark negatively. However, doing this work, if I'm doing it deeply, when I'm doing it deeply enough, things can start changing in my life. I can find myself responding differently. And that can be scary and that can feel very uncomfortable. So it can feel negative, but there's nothing negative comes from this process. It may bring into, it may wake up some illusions, some delusions from the past, but it's all safe. The process cannot go wrong as long as I'm in touch with my spark and paying attention to that, acknowledging the defenses, the distortions and the bafflements that pack around it, but knowing that they are not real and that they are being eroded and released and clarified through this work. Awesome. Time for a break. Time for a break. Thank you much. We'll be back. Welcome back to continuing on with the questions. Why is now the time for the spark work? Well, that's a good question. Martha, could you take off your mask? Oh, I could take off my mask. Just for this. Right, yes, right. It's such a nice mask though. Why is this the time for the spark work? Well, it seems to be the time for the spark work. And the spark insight, as I said earlier, came 40 years ago, so it's been sort of brooding, festering, composting, stewing, did I say brewing, brewing and brooding for that period of time. And I personally have been waiting for, I mean I've been open to waiting for application. And it first clear application was during the Standing Rock crisis of summer of 2016. That sort of got the spark of humanity network started and that it has continued to grow through the roots groups of which actually was an early part. And then the network and the website and all that has been growing. But the particular use for it at this time is in the history of humanity I would say there's never been such an obvious time of crisis. The environmental, if the planet can survive what we're doing to it, what we've done to it, that'll be grace. I'm not sure maybe the planet has a spark of some sort that I like to connect with to encourage the ecosystem to continue to sustain us and to be resilient and generous as it has been since it was first created. Just that is one reason. And everything else that we all know that I don't need to delineate because each one of us holds it differently but the spark word gives us a point of engagement that everyone can do. No one is hopeless. No one need be hopeless. No one is helpless. No one needs to feel frustrated about what can I do because spark work is something that everybody can do regardless of their mental capacity, their physical capacity, their age, their political party, their gender preferences, their prejudices, where they live in the world. Spark work is available to all human beings and there's never been a time when it's been more needed more broadly throughout the planet. To me, Martha said we started with a root work back in 2016 and with the water protectors and trying to develop a way of supporting them perhaps without the ability to actually be there. We couldn't have known that we'd be where we are right today and yet to me this work is, it matches up, it parallels. There may have been other times in our history where things have been this bad but there's never been a time when we all knew it. We're all together in this knowledge and to me that's why I initially was talking about connecting not only with human beings but with our connection with the earth, with wild animals, with stars. Basically I think that it helps transform us as human beings to understand what we are here to do. That a lot of the things we talk about, bafflement and distortions are in our belief systems as to why we are here, they are attached to those. Is it really that we're here to acquire stuff and get rich and stop on somebody else's back so that we can think that we're higher in some kind of social pyramidal scheme? I don't think so. To me the spark work and to put it in a nutshell is and why now because it's so desperately needed that we remember who we are and why we're here and make sacred our relationship with each other and with the earth and the world. It is the sanctification, whatever, make sacred again and to recognize it's not like it's ever not been sacred, it's just that we went wandering off the path. We're way off the path and this work helps individuals come to a place where we can put ourselves together, back on the path, help each other and not have to necessarily breathe in each other's faces in the process of doing that work. We can do it if you have a phone, even if you don't have a phone. One of the things that Martha says and then I'll shut up during the guided meditation is when she's making a transition to another part of the meditation she says remembering that we can always return to this work and that is when we're off the phone and we're not in direct communication with each other. We can still pick up the work and do it. You don't even need a phone, but it's nice. Isn't it amazing and wonderful that we have all this technology now to help us to do this work and connect when it's so important that we do? I would also say, taking on that, that it's affirming the dance this time it's recognizing our place in the dance and affirming the dance so that the dance can go more joyfully and with less collateral damage. You both have made a reference a couple of times to the root work and I'm just wondering what's the difference between root work and sparks work? That's a good question. Let's see if I can think of an answer. The roots groups came in early 2017 when the shock of awareness of the depth and of the divisions in the United States became evident to people who had not been aware that this country was as deeply and tragically divided as it is and people were reeling as if they were palm trees and a tsunami and an earthquake. Some of us thought, if you have a sturdy strong root system you can go with the breeze and the earthquake and you'll be okay. You won't break, you won't shatter. That brought the idea of creating a setting where people could get in touch with their roots which is their access to the resources they need in order to feel safe enough to be willing to be transformed by the spark work because we have to be willing to be transformed in order to be agents of transformation ourselves. The roots groups, thanks to the local Kellogg-Covered Library who sponsored the series that winter, were about encouraging people to connect with their root systems which have boiled down into stability. We need stability. We need access to wisdom or truth, whichever way you want to say it and we need a sense of community and when we have those we are strong and we are safe and we know we're safe, we recognize our safety and our spark can do the work at once of transformation. So that was the roots work, the groups were around that. At that time there was no thought of doing what we're doing now and the guided meditations that Axie referred to a couple of times on the telephone which is just easier than Zoom for some of us. But the roots groups started with reading the little spark booklet and we went to our sparks first and then the sparks would know what the roots need so the sparks would sort of direct the roots. The spark work is just the current iteration of the roots groups but if people wanted to start roots groups in their area we'd support that and help them do that but the spark work sort of has folded that in and continues it on. For me the root work was looking back one can see a little bit better and imagine for me the root work was almost like being in utero connected to it was practicing in that it was nurturing it was embryonic in the nature of the work that we were doing it's sort of a beginning phase and it's also to me it was a lot to do with the nurturing of understanding and again practicing this was we were practicing together and actually together not virtually but in a space together where we were envisioning our roots going out and touching and then these roots were magical roots because they could go across the country and around the world I mean and to be nourished also the idea of a tap root that goes so deep in the earth that it hits an aquifer that is referred to as wisdom the aquifer of living wisdom these are concepts that are helpful in the work to understand because they're real and yet sort of baffle the mind in the process of working with them because you're kind of thinking gee I'm making this up well we are we are making it up but that does not mean it's not real before there was airplane somebody sat around and drew pictures of something this is something we do as human beings we make this up and that process it becomes real and so yeah I felt it was and still to this day it's a wonderful thing to be able to sort of revert back to an interior world where we're fed and we actually breathe through our navels you know through a whole different system that is beyond our ken as human beings here but we breathe in a different way and we're fed all through one source and through a mother source that's where I felt the root system that practice was helping to birth this whole new this spark work which is very active and of a different nature but the roots meditations are now part of the spark and I don't breathe through my navel axi maybe I just want to let you know okay thank you Amy in a world where we spend so much time on zoom and telephone calls how have you guys seen COVID affecting the spark or the spark work well pre COVID people didn't spend so much time on the video or on telephone calls so that was that was good didn't I mean didn't do zoom so the COVID the pandemic has been a great boost to the spark work as far as I'm concerned because it's it's sort of during the particularly the early points when people were very isolated and locked in they were looking for anything to do that might be constructive and positive and new and different and so it's been very helpful and we had a series of meditations engaging the pandemic and eroding the domination system which we're not going to go into here but it's it's it hasn't it's been helpful it's been it's been like a the pandemic has been like a poultice that is drawing the spark work to visibility and to make people aware of that there's this opportunity yeah I totally agree with that I find myself in greater communication in other words because of the absence of of friends and family and humanity that is physically in my life I am reaching out more I realize what I'm missing I think my God what a gift I had and I didn't even know I just thought it was always going to go on that way forever and to have this this is the gift of the whole thing is to that we're I have the opportunity to know what this is like and while at the same time having this odd virtual ability which is to me like face to face light so I have to do twice as much of it in order to for the same effect so I find myself yes I'm using this more than I did because sitting with another human being the way we are today is so much it's like it's stronger you know it's it's more powerful it feeds me to a greater extent because that's what I'm used to as a human being now I'm learning how to appreciate us in our little boxes in zoom and on the phone and face time and stuff like that I'm learning to accept the fact that there actually is a human being on the other side and I'm not thinking it's a bad thing I'm actually just totally grateful that we have this I don't even sit around and talk about oh I wish it was the old days because that sort of puts down the gifts that we have these tools that we have that we can use in this time and we better use them so we are currently a week and a half away from the election and what happens when your spark does not agree with other sparks for example like in the election is there a way to change this how do we get past that my good question my spark always agrees with other sparks my my bafflement may be heightened by other people's distortions and defenses because my bafflement is heightened my and the fear comes up the distortions my distortions may become activated and become stronger and fiercer and therefore my defenses may get stronger and more hostile and of course when I'm doing that the spark of the other person the same thing is happening with them they're because in the interaction if we're not in tune with our sparks and I'm coming at them from my defenses and my distortions they're going to be scared they're going to be baffled so their distortions are going to become tighter and more distorted and more twisted and their defenses are going to become more hostile and more egregious so the solution that the spark work offers and we've had to grind through to come to this point to get to this understanding that the solution for each for me personally and everybody else is welcome to take it too right is that when I claim my spark and connected with the spark in the other person I know that my spark has an affinity with that person's spark and I know that everything that makes it difficult for me to connect is my stuff and so it's a matter of the language we use it's am I willing to be transformed in order for my spark to connect powerfully with the spark in that other person am I willing to become willing to be transformed hopefully I am because that's the only way that's the way that the spark work gets traction in the world in the current situation so it's on me because my spark and that other spark are just happy to be together they are just they know they're the same stuff they like being the joy for the spark it's all the rest of the garbage and I only have control over my own garbage and the way to deal with my garbage and that person's garbage is to strengthen my spark and I do that through claiming my spark and affirming and connecting with their spark I second that totally I don't know how many more questions Amy has not many and I think maybe that's all I need just yeah there is no disagreement any kind of thought around this my spark at first I was a little confused because I thought I was directing my spark and in this you know let's say we're in a phone conversation and I'm in a guided meditation thinking I was directing my spark but actually after I learned the process which is very similar each time my spark it was like a little puppy dog or a horse that knows what to do I any kind of manipulation I was trying to put on my spark was not helpful so I just realized I'm riding my spark my spark I need to trust that and I need to try not to think too much because when my spark let's say my spark confronts an enemy which I perceive in my mind this is enemy I have to let go of that and just let my spark do the work if I'm thinking enemy enemy then all these defenses and all this crap starts building up so it's a question of trust and it's not I'm not saying I can do it easily but that's what it is it's letting go of these ideas that come along with the work when you're in the process and maybe the face of someone comes up and you realize this is a person and you'll think enemy and then try to release that like a bloom that's just a thought and then the spark goes and the spark spins around and they they do what they do and then you have some faith that it might take time for the transformation you know those things may take time and that's out of my control and as thank god it is thanks X what is it about spark work that allows for hope I think that the basic the basic tropism the basic draw of spark work is towards hope hope for a better world it's simple it's accessible it's powerful on a very subtle and unquantifiable way and what I'm finding is that it draws me into touch with the fabric of the dance there's something I think of it as fabric or tissue a living tissue from which all life and creativity emerge and that's a tissue from which the dance which generates the dance perhaps the dance of which I am a creature the dance creates me and I'm a member of the dance so it's very abstract but thanks for asking when I get into when I get into when I become right sized and in right relationship with true relationship with all that is then there's hope because all that is is bigger than me and when I look around at the history of the formation of this cosmos this universe and the development of life and the beauty and the power and the experience that we have here on this blessed planet that I know that there is something larger and very creative and very good and very uncorruptible like the spark and that the closer I am into that the more I experience life within myself and around myself and there's that hope of that hope of the engagement that I am where I need to be where I belong in the dance and that I'm affirming the dance and wholeheartedly participating in the dance and that's where hope is because I trust the dance because it's so much bigger and better than I am it's the way of putting into action it's the way of participating when for me when I sometimes feel that there's nothing that I can do but it's also it can be challenging and that I, this is a personal admission I sometimes find myself doubting that it can this really work and and yet I have evidence that it works in my life therefore the challenge is to just see that if it works for me and if it works for you and if it works for you and it's helping what does this add up to it does that, what is that and and is that lake of living wisdom that aquifer of living wisdom can I access that can I be a part of this in a meaningful way through my through my mind but it's not necessarily by being really smart or something like that no, no it's from being willing and being open to transformation for the good so that's all. So thank you both for your thoughtful answers and time you know we've over this time covered death the pandemic at large the election and just wanted to give you guys space if there was any big takeaways you wanted to make sure that people knew or if there's anything that came up for you that you want to cover that we just hadn't had time to cover yet. Thanks Amy. I would just encourage you to look at the spark of humanity website and go to the events page if you're interested or just cruise it see whether you want to explore these insights we're just it's like yeah it's a it's an experiment here and the guided meditations that Axie's been referring to the schedule is on the website on the events page so we welcome you to join us anytime. Thank you. Thank you Amy. Yeah thanks Amy. You helped to reveal more more shall be revealed and hopefully you'll come back and help us to reveal it. Thank you. And thank you Orca Media. Thank you.