 So, I think that's interesting. I think it's interesting to see where they come from, and I think this is the dilemma you're seeing with the better people on the left and the better people on the right. I think this is the dilemma you're seeing with people who are anti-Trump on the right, but who don't know what the solution is. And it can be going back to George W. Bush, because it is the George W. Bushes of the world who got us to where we are today. It is the George W. Bushes of the world that created Trump, just like these nihilists were created by the leftist of yesterday. And you can't separate those things out. And unless you understand where it comes from, unless you understand the philosophical roots of nihilism, of this particular form of nihilism, then you can't combat it. George W. Bush's wife is considered moving, and how if they had the resources, in other words, they have the money they would move, that part of the problem is they can't afford to move. But how horrible life is in Portland because of Antifa and because of the riots and they're blaming the squarely on the mayor, on the defund the police movement. So they're doing a good job. And he was actually very supportive of the federal agents who came to Portland. And then the whole idea is when the federal agents left Portland, there was this agreement that the state would send in its police, and they would suppress the riots. That was the deal that the federal agents would leave and the state would reinforce the city. And that hasn't happened. The riots continued. It's 70-something days now of every night riots. He says that the demonstrations just always lean into riots, even though the demonstrations are peaceful. They're completely tolerant of the riots. They support the riots. They lean into the riots. He blames BLM, he blames Black Lives Matter for this. They talked here about, you know, that of course, small B, small L, small M, everybody thinks Black Lives Matter in that sense, but that the BLM, the capital BLM movement, it's not about Black Lives, it's about destruction, it's about nihilism, it's about all these things. So yeah, right on top of this, very, very good analysis, very good condemnation of the riots. And first hand, they tell you what it's like to drive through Portland, to go during the day, even when the demonstrations are not there, to see the poor shopkeepers having to clean up after the mess that the rioters commit, to clean up after their stores are being destroyed and looted. I mean, the horrors, to hear first hand the horrors of what is going on in Portland is quite lightning. So first, I recommend generally, I think Brett does an interesting podcast, you'll find you disagree with a lot of what he says, but it's interesting at least. And this episode in particular, I recommend you go back and listen to it because I think that there's a lot there that's interesting, including his discussion of, you know, what's going on in Portland. So with that as context, Brett then launches into this monologue, if you will, about how terrible things are, about how he doesn't know what to do, and how he feels betrayed, betrayed. And so let's listen. And I will, as I always do periodically, stop Brett and make some commentary. And, you know, I think I've got, I've got, you know, about six minutes of this. And then I'll skip forward for another two minute clip. But we'll see. And, you know, we'll see how much we do of this. But I think you'll find it's interesting. The irony here that I see is that, you know, we are in touch with some large sample of the smartest people in the English speaking world. They don't know what to do. People are fleeing the major cities. They're talking about the collapse of civilization. They don't have a clue how to counteract this. You know, I mean, that is a great observation. And it's an observation that keeps coming back throughout. Smartest people in the world, smartest people, people in the world who live in Chicago and New York and in Portland, Oregon and Seattle, wealthy people, people who've been incredibly successful, people who have been productive throughout their lives. And they don't know what to do. They don't know what to do. They don't know how to stop it. They don't know how to change it. They're running away. They're running from the cities. And we'll talk about that more when we talk about New York. They're escaping. They're taking their kids. They're taking their families. They can afford to. And I think that's one of the things that frustrates Brett that he can't. But they don't, the theme here is they don't know what to do. These are people who, for the most part, have voted Democratic. Maybe not always. Maybe they voted Republican sometimes. But they're generally middle of the road, moderates. And they're basically watching the horror orchestrated by the nihilists left. And they don't know what to do. They don't agree with the nihilists left, but, but, but we'll get to that. You and I, who I think are doing as much as we can, are frankly increasingly looking into a camera and saying, how could anything, this dumb wheeled this much power? I mean, we know that the answer resides in game theory, but nonetheless, you would imagine. Whoa. Now that's this, a ton there, right? How could something this insane continue happening? How could these people do what they do? How could this nihilism be everywhere? How could this nihilism dominate everything? And the answer is games, and everybody leaving, and their answer is game theory. The one thing missing, the one thing missing that you will see throughout. And if you listen to Brett, you listen to other better people, the Stephen Pinkers of the world, the others who are better is what's missing? What's missing is ideas. What's missing is the understanding there was driving the nihilist left, our ideas. And that what has led to the nihilist left, what has brought us to the point where the nihilist left can dominate the intellectual sphere. I hate to call it intellectual, the political sphere, the activist sphere, are the ideas of the old left. And in a sense, this is inevitable. This was inevitable, not because of game theory, not because of biology, not because of evolution of psychology, not because of some inevitable chain of events. It was inevitable because people like Brett Weinstein and everybody else, even though they constantly fought the post-moderns, they laid the foundations for the post-moderns, and they couldn't fight the post-moderns on the essentials. They couldn't really defend reason. They couldn't really reject altruism. And they certainly did not want to defend capitalism. They have laid bare the world of ideas to the post-moderns. So what's destroying our cities and our campuses are not just a bunch of random people. What's destroying our cities, our campuses, our institutions, our way of life, Western civilization, are set in ideas, set in motion, if you will, 200 plus years ago by Emmanuel Kant, promoted by Hegel and Schopenhauer and Marx and the post-moderns. It doesn't come out of nowhere. These people didn't just show up. They showed up because of the emptiness. They showed up to fill a gap. They showed up to make consistent the ideas that their parents and grandparents and great-grandparents set in motion. And until this generation sees that, understands that, figures that out, starts questioning their own ideas, starts questioning their own intellectual history, and starts looking for alternatives, real alternatives. Not, and this is the problem with Brett and his problem with his political ideas about the centrist, centrist political party, is that his solution to the nihilism of today is a return to some idealism of, I don't know, 1960s or 1970s or 1980s or 1990s. I don't know, some moderate time with some moderate politicians, rather than the Trumps of the world and the Bidens of the world who are captured by the Sanders of the world. So he is looking for moderation when it's moderation that led to where we are today. It's moderation. It's a lack of commitment to capitalism, to pursuit of happiness, self-interest, to reason. It's the fact that we weren't willing to fight for those things, fight for the declaration of independence. Let's let us hear and the return, the solution to the nihilism in the streets is not moderation. It's proper return to principle, but the principles of the founding fathers, principles of the founding fathers. All right, let's listen to a little bit more. Given the ability to see what's coming and how dangerous it is and the frankly ghastly threat that it constitutes to the West, not just the US, but the West writ large that we would somehow be able to coordinate a response around how do we prevent this from happening, how do we address the frustration in a way that does not take the rug out from under all of the structures on which we depend so that we don't have a power vacuum that allows the Russian as the Chinese, who knows who, to flood in and in effect govern the planet. So a couple of things I want to note here. First I don't want to misrepresent what Brett Stevens actually said. I don't want to misrepresent the fact that when he talked about game theory it was more about why people are leaving rather than fighting. And the idea here in terms of game theory is that, you know, people are placing a greater value and he talks about this later on the short term self interest fleeing is easier. Staying and fighting means coordination, means organization. And that's his game theory thing, but it's much deeper than that. Staying and fighting means you know what you're fighting for. The whole point is that our elites wouldn't know what they're fighting for. The whole point is that even though they see the danger of the riots, even though they see the danger of Antifa, even though they see the danger of BLM, they don't have an alternative. They don't have an answer. And the fact is the reality is that all these people for decades in a sense have been given the equivalent of Antifa and BLM, the moral high ground. How do you fight the people who you believe have the moral high ground? How do you fight the people who you believe are in some sense right? You just don't like the outcome. You just don't like where they're heading, but you can't challenge the righteousness. You can't challenge the altruistic motivation. You can't challenge the anti-racism that they argue for. You can't challenge the Black Lives Matter. So once the elites, the people escaping, have given the nihilists left the moral high ground, it's over, Brett. It's over. What are they going to stay and fight for, moderation? Keeping everything the way it used to be? I mean, maybe we should call these, these elitists leftists. We should call them conservatives because what they're trying to conserve is what the world was like 10 years ago or something like that without understanding that it's the ideas of 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago that lead to where we are today. Notice also what concerns him. And he says this more than once, which I find interesting. What concerns him is the power vacuum that we leave in the world, that America sinks, then the Chinese and the Russians will come to dominate. Who the F cares? I mean, what concerns me about the burning of Portland, what concerns me about the riots, about BLM, about nihilism in the streets of America is what happens to America. It's what happens to us. It's what happens to each one of us. And what concerns me is the inevitability that all of this leads to authoritarianism. All of this leads not just to the U.S. less engaged in the world, but the U.S. less free of a U.S. that abandons freedom completely, a U.S. that turns towards authoritarianism, whether of the left or of the right, to combat the nihilism. That is what's scary. But see, even saying that maybe is a little too selfish for Brett. I don't know. Maybe too self-interested for Brett. So he has to put it in the context of the world. Yes, the world will suffer if America declines because the world will lose the model for what freedom looks like. I think it's already lost. I think China and Russia already have won that because we are so weak and pathetic and in arguing for our cause and presenting our cause and in living up to it. I think that basically America has been lost for a long time, but it really became real internationally globally. The reality of American weakness became real after 9-11 and it really came home during the financial crisis. Financial crisis is where, in many respects, the world gave up on America as a model, as a shining city on a hill. So at some level, it is amazing how impotent the would-be adults are in the face of these children throwing a tantrum. And I really don't understand why that conversation is not taking place to come. I love that. I love that analogy, right? That adults are impotent in the face of the children throwing a tantrum. It's because these children intellectually are the product of these adults. It's because the adults have nothing to fight for, and the children do. The children have an ideal. Now, the ideal is nihilistic, but it's an ideal. They know what they, in a sense, know what they hate. The adults have no clue. They have no ideas. The children say, I mean, what does the nihilist to the left say? They say, if you believe in altruism, then how come they're rich people and they're poor people and they're rich aren't being sacrificed for the sake of the poor? And the rich people say, well, we believe in altruism. We agree with you. All right, well, we'll need to raise our own taxes a little bit. And the young people say, that's pathetic. We want real redistribution. I mean, we want equality. Isn't that what you promised us? Isn't that what you taught us? Isn't that what it's all been about all the time? I mean, altruism, living for the sake of others. And you're not living for the sake of others. The children are telling the adult, you betrayed us. I mean, have you seen the Greta Thunberg videos, where she says, crying, teary-eyed, young girl saying, oh, you betrayed us. You're destroying the planet. And we children, we've got no way. You ruined the planet for us. Well, that's what the nihilists are saying. They're saying, you betrayed us. You said there was going to be equality. You told us that equality is an ideal. You said sacrificing is noble, but you won't sacrifice. You said the reason is maybe good for science. And you should really cultivate your emotions. And you should really cultivate the spiritual side of your life, spiritual in the mystical sense. And they're saying, yeah, that's what we're doing. We're all about emotion. We are 100% on emotion side. And you said, you told us, you adults, you told us capitalism was evil. You told us capitalism was not an ideal. You told us we need to move away from capitalism. Whoa, but you haven't. There's still private property out there. There's still people, there's still entrepreneurs out there. Look at these billionaires. There's still billionaires out there. We are committed to the destruction of capitalism. You talk the talk. We're acting. You cowards. That's the conversation. And what are the adults going to say? The adults are impotent, but they're not impotent because they're cowards. They're not impotent because of game theory and they can't get organized. They're not impotent because of any of these things. They're impotent because they don't have answers. They don't know what to tell the kids, other than, oh, no, destruction is bad, nihilism is bad, don't do it. But what alternative do they offer? None. None. Yeah, Obama says you didn't build that. Obama's one of the adults, an admired adult, a moderate. They claim, compared to the nihilists, if you didn't build that, then why can't I take it from you? Why can't I knock it down? Why can't I destroy it? You didn't build it. What are you talking about? Property rights. Who cares? There's no such thing. You didn't build it. It's not yours. It's society's. We're society. We don't want it anymore. So we're smashing your windows and you're taking your stuff. The adults are not there because the adults have nothing to say, unless you have a new moral code, unless you have a new philosophy, unless you have something to base new ideas on, unless you have solutions. All you can do, my friends, all you can do is run. Run for your life. Conversation is so much about the tantrum and so little about what the proper response to a tantrum that threatens to disrupt everything is. We are not having that conversation. No, we're, I mean, some of us are, but the fact is, I mean, this is a point that you have been making for decades, really, is that these kinds of things sneak in in clever packaging, that with the rise of consultants and PR firms and publicity managers and being on brand and all of this that we saw through basically the second half of the 20th century, you increasingly have movements that are savvy to human psychology sufficient, whether or not the people who are saying the things know what they're doing. It really doesn't take that at all. In fact, it may be more powerful if they don't know the effect of what they're doing. All it takes, really, is putting together the right sound bites. And so... So this is Brett's wife, Heather, who's also a scientist and a well-regarded academic. It's all about sound bites, guys. The problem is marketing. It's all about marketing. The problem is we have movements that are marketing savvy. They know how to do Twitter. They know how to market their stuff. See, this is why they can't solve problems because this is the level at which they think that the problem exists. How did we get evil movements? How did we get nihilism and other evil movements before marketing, before the internet, before sound bites? How did Hitler do it? How did Stalin do it? How did the Commies take over half the world? I mean, it really is. Pathetic. Somebody says, I should interview Cormin Hughes in the show. I mean, I would, but Cormin Hughes is... It would be good to introduce him to the ideas, but Cormin Hughes is... Again, he's the same problem. He's a collectivist of the right. He's a better one, but he's still a collectivist. I mean, his critique of the anti-racism was so shallow. So shallow. Not once did he raise the issue of individualism versus collectivism, which is a fundamental issue with regard to the issues of racism. Not once, and he's an expert on racism. Now he's young, but the essential issue there is individualism versus collectivism. And yet, his thinking is not clear. The only reason you think his thinking is clear is because you happen to agree with more of his stuff. Cormin Hughes works for the City Journal in the Manhattan Institute. He works for the Manhattan Institute. And they can't... I mean, the same problem across the entire intellectual world is they're all collectivists of some form or another. They're all altruists of some form or another. And their respect for reason is bounded. He's more open, I think, because he's younger. That's why I would think. But, you know, again, my view is not that I'm going to convince Brett Weinstein or Cormin. They're committed. They've got their ideas. They've got their set of ideas. I doubt that they are invincible. My interest is in the people, their audience. Their audience. All right. So, I mean, look at the level of analysis. It's about timebites. It's not about timebites. It's about the moral high ground. It's about morality. That's what it's about. It's about who is right and who is wrong. It's about, is sacrifice noble or should it be rejected? You know, we have been saying, and I do increasingly hear and see people saying online, you know, when you say that black lives matter, do you mean to support the obvious and true sentiment that black lives matter, lowercase l, lowercase m? Or are you referring to the movement, hashtag black lives matter, which is not what it seems. And people say this, but still. Still now, it is fooled a tremendous number of people. Still now, the don't hurt me walls and, you know, placards are up all over the place. And still now we have these weak mayors, weak governors saying, oh, yeah, probably it would be a good idea to get rid of the task force that considers whether or not gun violence is an issue here. You know, it's, it's incoherent. But what they are doing is responding to words as if words are truth. And responding to words as if words are truth is actually almost like the flip of the mistake that postmodernism makes where, you know, postmodernism is like, there's no objective reality and your truth is just as valid as my truth. And now we're saying, okay, but here I've got this phrase. And because it uses these words, the thing, the words that it uses must be reflective of what our goals are, even though we're now just like, don't look at the man behind the curtain. We're going to go back here and do whatever we're doing while you shout about our phrase and get more people on board. Yeah. I see it. I don't think this has anything to do with words. This has to do with some sort of a tipping point in which say noses are words, it's ideas. But tipping point, what kind of tipping point? Demographically speaking, some thing as a result of COVID as a result of shifts that have been in motion over the course of decades is finally in a position where if it all just simply points in the same direction, it is in a position not to make anything happen. It doesn't have the capacity to build. The people involved in it don't know what to build. They wouldn't know how to build. Yeah, that's the nihilism. You recognize the nihilism. That's great. Building and making something happen aren't the same thing. Well, if making something happen is tearing something down that somebody else has built, then that is the thing it is in a position to do. And the question is, I think something has failed in the would-be adult class. Yes, and that failure is the altruism and the socialism. That's what's failed, but that's what I think Brett and so many people like Brett refuse to recognize. What's failed is the fundamental ideas is the point. And because the other thing, because the thing that we are up against is so difficult to ignore and fascinating in its absurdity, we are not looking at ourselves and saying, how is it that we cannot just simply level with people and say, those people obviously don't know how to run anything. You can tell that they don't based on the fact that they say things like defund the police, and it's not even taking months. But it's not an issue of running things. Since when was it an issue of running things? Since when was it an issue of efficiency? He's not almost there, because he's way too focused on if any of you was consistent about this idea of running things, then he would be a capitalist, which he's not. Which he's not, because why isn't he a capitalist? Because he resents the profit motive, because he resents self-interest. Because he thinks we're all brutes, which comes from, unfortunately, from his interpretation of his science. But he gets that the people in the streets are nihilists and incompetent. But he can't see what is driving the nihilism and incompetence, and he suddenly can't see what the solution is. Just even the initial forays into reducing policing are immediately causing crime waves that they're causing increase in the murder rate. This is not hard to detect, that you can just test the hypothesis. Do they know how to run a city? Are they right that removing the police will make things safer? Clearly not. We know that already. So why is it that we cannot now look at each other and say, all right, hypothesis tested, how do we stop them from wielding power? Well, I mean... All right, I think that's it for now. What we need today, what I call the new intellectual, would be any man or woman who is willing to think. Meaning, any man or woman who knows that man's life must be guided by reason, by the intellect, not by feelings, wishes, wins or mystic revelations. Any man or woman who values his life does not want to give in to today's cult of despair, cynicism, and impotence and does not intend to give up the world to the dark ages and to the role of the collectivist. All right, before we go on, reminder, please like the show. We've got 163 live listeners right now. 30 likes. That should be at least 100. I figure at least 100 of you actually like the show. There are like 60 of the Matthews out there who hate it. But at least the people who are liking it, you know, I want to see a thumbs up. There you go. Start liking it. I want to see that go to 100. All it takes is a click of a thing, whether you're looking at this... And you know the likes matter. It's not an issue of my ego. It's an issue of the algorithm. The more you like something, the more the algorithm likes it. So, you know, if you don't like the show, give it a thumbs down. Your actual views being reflected in the likes. But if you like it, don't just sit there. 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